View Full Version : Worth it?
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 03:14 PM
BMG Grizzly Rifle
Worth 2,850.00? Shoots just about a mile before the round starts drop. Comes with a tactical scope too, forget what kind.
http://www.midwestordnance.com/lar50bmg.jpg
If you are going after grizzly bears, or moose I suppose that gun might be worth having. Otherwise I see no need for it. It's too much gun for deer hunting, and ammunition for it is far too expensive for target shooting. If you want your very own cannon, just get something chambered for .300 winchester magnum. It'll be cheaper both for the rifle, and ammunition.
-Jack
Another thing to consider is the weight of that particular rifle. At 34 pounds, it doesn't have enough weight to absorb the recoil of the .50 caliber round. Since it is single shot, there is no buffer mechanism to absorb recoil, and the giant muzzle brake is not going to be enough to save you from an extremely sore shoulder.
The .50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun) is a very powerful round, but it will not fly a mile without any bullet drop. At 1000 yards, a 760 Grain bullet (Hornady V-Max) will drop 308 inches. Being a heavy round it is resistant to wind, but not immune.
With the match grade version of that rifle, and match grade ammunition you can expect bullet groups of around 10 inches. That is from the company's own website. They advertise 10 inches, so in reality you can probably expect anywhere from 8-12 inch groups.
All in all, it's not worth the money. Keep saving up and get a Barret M-99 if you are dead set on owning something chambered in .50 BMG.
Sorry for the multiple posts on this everyone.
-Jack
I agree with Jack. Save up for the Barret.
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 04:13 PM
bueno thanks for the advice
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 04:14 PM
i also need some that just looks mean, been 3 robberies by my aparment in the last month... got get some home defense... any suggestions on that? I was thinkin an old school double barrel.
[Edited on 10-6-2003 by Carl Spackler]
AnticorRifling
10-06-2003, 04:21 PM
9mm rifle, great looking piece can't remember what kind my dad's is haven't shot it in quite a few years... It has good stopping power, mean look, you can ge them in semi-auto if you're not in the mood to aim :ccol:
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 04:23 PM
My buddies dad owns a second hand store, they had a few 9mm rifles there, I'll take a look at them next time i go.
I wouldn't worry too much about looking mean, when it comes to home defense. If someone even put a .22 round in me, I'd lose interest pretty quickly in trying to rob the house.
A few things to take into factor when buying a firearm for home defense is the location of your home and surrounding people. You don't want a round strong enough to go through a wall and tag someone inadvertently.
I, personally, would go for a small calibre (9mm being the largest) handgun or a 12/20 gauge shotgun.
If you choose the shotgun, be sure to use birdshot. Considering that shooting distance in a home invasion situation is going to be close, the birdshot won't get a chance to spread out. This will cause MASSIVE internal damage, if hit in the abdomen/chest, likely resulting in a 1-2 shot kill.
Another thing, if you decide to use lethal force towards an invader, BE SURE TO KILL HIM. Leaving the suspect alive is likely to get you slapped with a lawsuit, thanks to America's wonderful legal system.
There's a ton of things you should know in dealing with home defense. You should always fire a warning shot, never shoot the suspect in the back, and be sure to have enough proof to show that they were indeed a lethal threat to you. I saw an excellent essay that explained all of the factors not too long ago. I'm going to see if I can dig that up for you.
And if you decide to get a firearm, learn to use it and be good at using it!
Drew2
10-06-2003, 04:26 PM
Expanding on Peam's advice for a dead invader, don't shoot him in the back, and make sure he's inside when you do it. That's what the cops told us about shooting my step-dad. ::nods::
Remington 870 Home defense version. It's an 18 inch barrelled 12 guage shotgun. Comes with a black synthetic stock, and if you buy a 20 dollar magazine extension tube it just looks mean. Just don't be a dumb ass and load it up with slugs or buckshot if you intend to really use it as a home defense weapon. Use number four, or number six steel shot. That's enough to put a serious hurt on someone, but not so much that it'll go in and out, and risk hitting a family member, or tearing through a wall and taking out a neighbor.
http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn18.htm
-Jack
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 04:30 PM
Damn this is all great advice... I don't even live in a nasty area, but I guess my side of the campus is brutal... we had a girl get held up at gun point 15 feet behind the back door to my apartment. A 7-11 about a mile away got robbed earlier in the night. A guy i know got held up by gun point this summer at an apartment down the street. Two girls about a mile away were tied up and robbed in their apartment about 2 weeks ago, and a bank about 3 miles away got robbed 2 weeks ago... someone is on a friggin rampage... hence my desire for a gun, the trusty old throwing knife and baseball bat, i fear just won't do the trick
That is a nice home defense shotgun, but if there's a gun show in your area, check it out.
There's one that comes through here reguarly and they sell a nice defense shotgun for around $198.00. I'm not sure how much that Remington would run you, but I'd guess it'll be more than $198.
After reconsidering it over the past few minutes, I think I'm going to recommend going with a shotgun. They're easy to aim, reliable, and semi-inexpensive. Just be sure to get a pump action, as a single shot isn't going to be quick to reload.
Drew2
10-06-2003, 04:33 PM
I've always wanted to learn to throw knives. If even just for fun.
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 04:34 PM
Yeah it's fun, but im not very good at it. There used to be a class around here called oriental weaponry, always wanted to take, but im not sure if it exists any more.
You can go to your local Walmart and get an 870 express. It's not going to be the synthetic stock, or short barrelled version, but it won't cost you too much. I want to say around 350-400 dollars. I picked mine up at a gunshow for 250 dollars. Gunshows are a great place to go looking. Take someone who is moderately knowledgeable in firearms with you though, so you don't end up with some Chinese made mossburg knock-off that's made out of pot metal.....
-Jack
Originally posted by Jack
Take someone who is moderately knowledgeable in firearms with you though, so you don't end up with some Chinese made mossburg knock-off that's made out of pot metal.....
-Jack
:bouncy: That couldn't be more true. If you don't know what you're looking for, you can end up with a total piece of crap. Last show here, I was looking for an SKS, and one table that had SKS's also had these pieces of shit 9mm rifles.
They were hilarious. Obviously pressed in some third world steel factory. Couldn't have been accurate for more than 5 feet. Even the seams were jagged. If you held one long enough, you'd likely end up with a nasty cut.
[Edited on 10-6-2003 by peam]
AkMan
10-06-2003, 04:44 PM
Up here in Alaska there was a church robbed in a small town. The pastor lived across the street and had a baby monitor wired so he could listen in on what was happening. He heard a noise, got his gun and walked over to the church. Once inside, the guys bolted and he shot both of them ... in the back. He shot them from inside the church, through a window while they were tryin to escape. He is currently facing a murder trial.
Here's a link to the story if anyone is interested. Listen to Peam, he's right. This community was SICK TO DEATH of burglaries and someone finally decided to do something about it.
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2003/10/03/news/news4.txt
[Edited on 10-6-2003 by AkMan]
theotherjohn
10-06-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Carl Spackler
i also need some that just looks mean, been 3 robberies by my aparment in the last month... got get some home defense... any suggestions on that? I was thinkin an old school double barrel.
[Edited on 10-6-2003 by Carl Spackler]
Yeah buy a real nice gun so that will be the first thing stolen.
He wasn't asking for random smartass comments. There's another board for that.
theotherjohn
10-06-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by peam
He wasn't asking for random smartass comments. There's another board for that.
It was not a random smartass comment. It was a directed smartass suggestion per his request for suggestion.
Read the entire post or dont and just ban me like everyone else that doesnt post what the clique here wants to read
Semantics aren't my game. The point is that a majority of any input you give is just blatantly malicious. I hear you rant and rave about your above average education and years of experience the military, but I fail to understand why you can't refrain from making the type of posts you insist on composing. I would think with your military experience, you might actually have some valid input on defense.
Oh, and being an asshole isn't a bannable offense.
[Edited on 10-6-2003 by peam]
AnticorRifling
10-06-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by theotherjohn
Originally posted by peam
He wasn't asking for random smartass comments. There's another board for that.
It was not a random smartass comment. It was a directed smartass suggestion per his request for suggestion.
Read the entire post or dont and just ban me like everyone else that doesnt post what the clique here wants to read
We don't ban people for having different opinions from one another so get that idea out of your head. Presentation is another issue but a different opinion is fine.
You are right, nice weapons do get stolen because they can be sold very easily. If you're going to invest in a decent firearm get a decent gunsafe and put it out of sight. You don't need to advertise that you have a good weapon in the house for two reasons:
1. One more thing to steal.
2. If someone has plans to rob your house and find out you have a gun they might decide to not rob your house or they might decide to rob it and bring weapons of their own. Just like having that ADT sign up it either turns thiefs away or it let's them know how to get around your system because you're telling them what you have. Home protection is a double edged sword like that so do your best to dull one side.
theotherjohn
10-06-2003, 05:54 PM
finally someone read what I said.
Nice guns unless they are in a huge safe are the first things stolen.
It wasn't the content of your post. It's the presentation.
Granted, a cabinet full of guns in the hallway is going to be a big target for a robber, but if an individual has a weapon solely for home defense, it's likely going to be within a few feet of their sleeping area.
It's silly to buy a weapon for home-defense and stick it in a bulky safe which will impede reaction time.
radeek
10-06-2003, 05:59 PM
forget the .50 cal....if you want a good all around fun to shoot and as accurate as most anything else out there, and affordable go with the .308...aka NATO 7.62mm...trust me boys, i've got a lot of time on this round and thousands upon thousands of rounds downrange
AnticorRifling
10-06-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by peam
It wasn't the content of your post. It's the presentation.
Granted, a cabinet full of guns in the hallway is going to be a big target for a robber, but if an individual has a weapon solely for home defense, it's likely going to be within a few feet of their sleeping area.
It's silly to buy a weapon for home-defense and stick it in a bulky safe which will impede reaction time.
Never leave a gun out unless it's a de-milled presentation piece I don't care if it's a home made potato gun lock it up. A quick 4digit safe in the closet of the bedroom is fine.
A thief won't steal a gun safe they are heavy, loud, well built, heavy, bulky, and heavy. My uncle got robbed a few years back and they tried to get into one of his gun safes they beat the tar out of it but it stayed locked.
You want the gun locked for a few reasons:
1. So family or friends don't get ahold of it(children especially even if you don't have kids sometime they might be over and all kids are nosey)
2. If you have the gun out and the intruder gets to it first you're screwed big time. Nothing worse than having someone you love killed with your own weapon.
3. If you have it locked up and don't get to it don't even think about it, unarmed you can probably get off alive if you let the intruder know he/she is in control. Having a weapon makes you a huge threat and you're drawing more violence from the intruder upon yourself. If you're not shooting to kill don't have the gun.
AnticorRifling
10-06-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by radeek
forget the .50 cal....if you want a good all around fun to shoot and as accurate as most anything else out there, and affordable go with the .308...aka NATO 7.62mm...trust me boys, i've got a lot of time on this round and thousands upon thousands of rounds downrange
5.56mm is more accurate :cool:
Simply put a trigger lock on it, with the key in a hidden easy to reach place.
A gun safe is reliable for keeping collections safe, but renders the response time toward a home intruder to an unacceptable high.
radeek
10-06-2003, 06:21 PM
only at ranges of less than 500 yards...and even then only with a better weapon than mattel's m-16 (colt)....i was a marine sniper and i swear by the 7.62...you can drop a man at 1200 yards in decent wind if you know your stuff. the 5.56 has neither the range or the stopping power of the 7.62...and range is THE most important thing when everyone in the world is trying to crap on your parade. and i never see anyone in the long distance matches using a 5.56..and most of the folks who shoot matches use some version of the .30 cal...be it 30.06 or what have you...and these are NRA sanctioned matches....the 7.62 is just a better round than the 5.56, in most every application
5.56 is a decent round, but it really can't be compared to the .308. The 5.56 is good for shooting ground hogs and such, but for any serious application it's insufficient. The Military uses it now because it is smaller and lighter than the 7.62, so you can carry more ammunition. Also, the recoil of the 5.56 is significantly less than a 7.62, so it can be more accurate when being fired by an automatic weapon, simply because you can control it better.
I personally prefer .30-06 to .308. It has a bit more power, and shoots a bit flatter. My varment rifle is a .25-06, which is a whole lot of fun. It's a .30-06 casing necked down to .25 caliber. It's a very flat shooting high velocity round, but the smaller caliber makes it rather worthless beyond 500 yards. Wind effects it far too much.
-Jack
AnticorRifling
10-06-2003, 06:31 PM
We used the 5.56 at division and all Marine Corps shooting matches at over 500yrds with no problem. I agree the 7.62 will have more stopping power just because it's a heavier round but it depends on what weapon you're firing it out of to get the accuracy.
Carl Spackler
10-06-2003, 08:11 PM
I would lock it in my closet, in some sort of safe. Also if I were to look at handguns, any ideas there? a buddy of mine has a glock, i forget which model. His has the older clips too, that hold more rounds, what is it 15? instead of the new 10 round clips.
A handgun is only useful if you know how to shoot it. A shotgun is a lot easier to hit your target with. I have one handgun which is basicly just something to play around with at the indoor range. I'd not want to use it for home defense, or any other purpose. It's just fun to shoot sometimes. It is an H&K USP, chambered for .40 S&W. Glocks are not bad, but they are not at all cheap. I still think you should go with a Remington 870....
-Jack
radeek
10-07-2003, 09:49 PM
heh....nope...most range i've ever a 5.56 used at in matches was 600 yards..and it stunk....i'll take an old FN-FAL or an m-14 any day over that piece of junk m-16. the m-16 was never a good weapon, and now we have people trying to turn it into a sniping weapon. although it is significantly lighter, has little recoil and fires a lightweight round (for load bearing purposes) i still think of it as worthless on the modern battlefield, for any and all applications. but that's just me...i'm sure someone out there still thinks of it as a good weapon. i've found them to be unreliable and underpowered. and at ranges over 300 yards you'll be lucky to hit your target at all in a combat situation. as for automatic fire (or 3 round burst for the a-2) i have found little use for it, other than to lighten your load far too quickly. thats what god created the m-249 and the m-60 for. the only application i like the m-16 in is as the m-203 grenade launcher combination. it beats the hell out of the old m-79 blooper. load her up with a 40mm buckshot round and your in business at short range. personally, set me back 1000 yards with my m-40, 200 rounds of match grade ammo and god help the poor soul that crosses my line of sight.
AnticorRifling
10-08-2003, 08:21 AM
you forgot the mark 19, now that is fun in a can. :cool: Heavy SOB though. 249 is great but not when your A gunner falls out and you're carrying your load and his A bag and rounds too. Blows! heh.
Skirmisher
10-08-2003, 08:32 PM
I remember reading an article in the NYTimes a month or so ago about how a growing number of soldiers in Iraq were starting to carry extra ak-47's.
There were several reasons for this.
A- There are simply not enough of the customary m-16 varient for every soldier to be armed with one. Ammunition also was in shorter supply than most were comfortable with.
B- Patrols tended to be forced to leave vehicles and move on foot and most vehicle squads only had one or two rifles with the rest of the crew having to rely on a sidearm.
C- Most fights being short ranged shootouts where the rapid firing and heavy stopping power of the AK was thought to be superior.
D- They could not take three steps without tripping over one, so why not use them?
It was to the point where it was officially being allowed after a qualifying exam of some sort was passed to show proficiency.
Anyone else remember reading about this?
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