Hiding and accidental poaching.

[Shalla]

Ever since when I started playing gemstone years ago, I've always been very cautious and try not to poach other people's kills. There are 4 kinds of critters at the maaghara tower, and I'm not very technical with scripts so I use macros to kill them. There's only so much slots so I try to put more than one command for one slot. When I walk into a room and there is no one there but the critter, my instinctive reaction is to press the appropriate macro then finish. I have no time nor patience to search, ask or make sure there is no one hidden in the room if there is NO disk to be seen. I see no disk, I cast. I see no hiders leaping out of hiding, I cast. Considerate hiders would USUALLY act fast by jumping out of hiding to attack the critter the second someone walks in. What is the deal with coughing? you have enough time to type cough, why don't you just type ambush/kill <critter>. Why cough? and why wait? is there some kind of tactic hiders are supposed to wait for like the critter going on offensive? It's ridiculous. I try to be considerate not to poach your kills.. but have common sense to realize I can't see you when I walk in, and I'm sorry that I act fast and that you chose to cough instead of killing the critter. The hunting life of an ambusher, you can't be seen. It happens. Get used to it. :rolleyes:



>s
[Maaghara Labyrinth]
Thin roots worm their way along the walls and ceiling, some of the wiry tendrils hanging limply in the still, musty air. A few warped pieces of metal jut up from the floor, while others are nearly buried in the smooth earth. Miniscule cracks wind along the walls, the crevices illuminated faintly by the tiny slivers of luminescent fungi growing between them. You also see a moulis.
Obvious exits: north, west
>PREP 719
CAST MOUL
LOOT MOUL
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
>You hear someone cough.
>
A moulis extrudes a flattened fiber and swings it at you!
AS: +370 vs DS: +434 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +11 = -11
A clean miss.
>
You gesture at a moulis.
CS: +406 - TD: +305 + CvA: +25 + d100: +84 == +210
Warding failed!
... and hits for 36 points of damage!
A moulis is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 35 points of damage!
Flames toast left cornea. Consider an eyepatch.
The moulis is stunned!
... 45 points of damage!
What was once the moulis's left leg shatters with your well placed strike!
A moulis shivers and collapses to the ground, grasping at its torn and mangled appendages
... 70 points of damage!
Massive electrical bolt burns a hole through the back and kidneys.
The moulis flails wildly for a moment before going still, its appendages dropping lifelessly to the ground.
A moulis appears somehow different.
The layer of stone surrounding a moulis crumbles away.
A moulis seems a bit less imposing.
You feel 1 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You search the moulis.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing of interest.
A moulis crumbles into a putrid compost.
>
You hear someone cough.
>say eep
You say, "Eep."
>l
[Maaghara Labyrinth]
Thin roots worm their way along the walls and ceiling, some of the wiry tendrils hanging limply in the still, musty air. A few warped pieces of metal jut up from the floor, while others are nearly buried in the smooth earth. Miniscule cracks wind along the walls, the crevices illuminated faintly by the tiny slivers of luminescent fungi growing between them.
Obvious exits: north, west
>
You hear someone sigh.
>say It was out of my hand right when you coughed
You say, "It was out of my hand right when you coughed."
>shrug
You shrug.
>say sorry
You say, "Sorry."
>l
[Maaghara Labyrinth]
Thin roots worm their way along the walls and ceiling, some of the wiry tendrils hanging limply in the still, musty air. A few warped pieces of metal jut up from the floor, while others are nearly buried in the smooth earth. Miniscule cracks wind along the walls, the crevices illuminated faintly by the tiny slivers of luminescent fungi growing between them.
Obvious exits: north, west



[Edited on 9-25-2005 by Shalla]

[Bobmuhthol]

Ever heard of hiding roundtime?

[Skirmisher]

I tend to agree that if the person who wants to hunt by ambushing from hiding can't take the time to get a disk then there is little room on their part to complain from lost kills.

[HarmNone]

If the spell was already cast when you "heard" the cough, this was just a case of unfortunate timing. I'd put it behind me, if I were you. Things like this are going to happen from time to time.

It is important, however, to pay attention. Personally, I'd search if I had the skill but, for some, that won't uncover a skilled hider. So, you need to be on the alert for things like a cough, or some other method the hider might use to draw your attention to his/her presence.

[Bobmuhthol]

So if I'm an ambushing rogue I should be inconvenienced every time I want to hunt?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Personally, I'd search if I had the skill but, for some, that won't uncover a skilled hider.>>

If you were hunting and had 5000 ranks of hiding, you wouldn't search in every room first. It's impractical.

[Gan]

Agreed.

I hunt the Tower and I ambush. Sometimes I have a disk, sometimes I dont. Sometimes casters come in and blow my target away even when a disk is parked there. Such is the life of an ambusher. By understanding that I am hidden, it is natural for things like this to happen. Thus, the only time I let it irk me is when I get no reponse from the caster after I ambush the target that has been casted at, which usually denotes script usage.

The main point is that the tower usually generates shricken, moulis, and goleras at a pretty good pace so there are plenty of targets to go around. If you're a caster, acknowledge the hider if he chooses to reveal himself. If you're a hider, get over it and move onto another kill, use shadow mastery to cut down your hiding rt so you can ambush quicker, or get a disk.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Personally, I'd search if I had the skill but, for some, that won't uncover a skilled hider.>>

If you were hunting and had 5000 ranks of hiding, you wouldn't search in every room first. It's impractical.

Absolutely true, Bob. I didn't stop to think before I posted that. I certainly wouldn't do it every time; although, I might do so if I had found a hider (or hiders) in the area during my hunt.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Ever heard of hiding roundtime?

Yes, but at that level? and you are an ambusher and well trained in hiding.. It doesn't go all the way to 8-10 seconds. Does it?

[Gan]

3 seconds for someone of that level if they are adequately trained in it.

can be as low as 1 second if they have up to 5 ranks in shadow mastery.

perhaps they were experiencing game lag

:shrug:

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
So if I'm an ambushing rogue I should be inconvenienced every time I want to hunt?

If your way of hunting has the chance of making me wait longer than needed and thus get killed, yes.

It is extremely easy to get a disk which solves the entire situation as wll as giving you a place to keep loot only helping you more.

[HarmNone]

Did the hider complain to you, or to staff, Shalla? All I noticed in the log was a sigh of disappointment. That's quite understandable. However, I don't see where any problem developed out of this incident, so I'm wondering if one actually did.

[Shalla]

It was like 8 am. There is no game lag. Otherwise, all 3 commands from my macro would not have entered.

I mean, I don't even care about the critter. If the person wanted, they could poach one of MY kills to get even, and usually if there is a treasure.. I give it to them. I just hope some people would understand that these things happen, if you're not going to get a disk or act fast enough.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Did the hider complain to you, or to staff, Shalla? All I noticed in the log was a sigh of disappointment. That's quite understandable. However, I don't see where any problem developed out of this incident, so I'm wondering if one actually did.

This particular hider did not. not yet anyway. I left the area as soon as it happened because I felt bad that it happened. I made the post because it wasn't the first time, not necessarily with the same person. It happened, and I was attacked.. killed once. Branded a poacher. I mean, I don't even care if they think that, but one time some healer refused to heal me because I apparently poached one of his kills from another character. wtf?

[Edited on 9-25-2005 by Shalla]

[HarmNone]

Lag can result on the player end, Shalla. His IP could be lagging, or any number of things could cause him to have lag while you do not. You can't base everyone's experience on yours. It don't work like that. ;)

If the hider didn't create a problem (and it looks like that's the case), just put it behind you. It was, as Ganalon and I said, a matter of bad timing, and one of the risks of hunting from hiding. Most hiders understand this. However, most are very intolerant of script hunters who are AFK, as they have a right to be. In this case, you were aware but were unable to stop the spell once it was cast. You apologized, and it appears the hider accepted that apology.

[Shalla]

yeah, thanks HN. I know I'll get over it in about half an hour. :heart:

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Shalla

Originally posted by HarmNone
Did the hider complain to you, or to staff, Shalla? All I noticed in the log was a sigh of disappointment. That's quite understandable. However, I don't see where any problem developed out of this incident, so I'm wondering if one actually did.

This particular hider did not. not yet anyway. I left the area as soon as it happened because I felt bad that it happened. I made the post because it wasn't the first time, not necessarily with the same person. It happened, and I was attacked.. killed once. Branded a poacher. I mean, I don't even care if they think that, but one time some healer refused to heal me because I apparently poached one of his kills from another character. wtf?

[Edited on 9-25-2005 by Shalla]

You're going to find both reasonable and unreasonable players in GemStone. That's the way it's always been. If you're not AFK, and an accident happens, apologize and go on your way. If someone decides to make something of it, you have the ability to Assist/Report, if you think the incident warrants it.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It was like 8 am. There is no game lag.>>

What a ridiculous statement. Lag is not determined by time.

[Shalla]

I stand corrected. But I am under the impression that he wasn't experiencing lag after the incident, because he coughed right when it happened.

[The Ponzzz]

never 1 second. Min is 2 for hiding. You are thinking of stalking with shadow mastery.

[Gan]

Ponzz is correct, I was thinking of stalking/moving around while hidden and not hiding rt.

[Brattt8525]

>>What is the deal with coughing? you have enough time to type cough, why don't you just type ambush/kill <critter><<<

Because it takes less time to type cough then to type an actual hello I am here.

co
You cough.

[Miss X]

I have always been of the opinion that if someone wants to ambush hunt then they can put up with getting poached now and then. Get a disk or deal with it.

Of course, if I hear someone cough or whatever I move on, but I also macro hunt and my finger automatically hits the key when I see a critter. I hate people who get all angry over accidental poaching too. We all do it!

[The Ponzzz]

So just poach thier kills. Once they kill yer creature stalk em and ambush the next one. Eye for an eye.

EDIT TO ADD:

>>I have always been of the opinion that if someone wants to ambush hunt then they can put up with getting poached now and then. Get a disk or deal with it.

Same goes with perception. If ya don't have the training to see them stalking you, deal with it. :)

[Edited on 9-25-2005 by The Ponzzz]

[Shalla]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
Same goes with perception. If ya don't have the training to see them stalking you, deal with it. :)


They're already there. They're not stalking. They're ambushing.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<They're already there. They're not stalking. They're ambushing.>>


Once they kill yer creature stalk em and ambush the next one. Eye for an eye.
...

[Kenn]

That's why I get disks. What I don't like is when people are running scripts that instantly walk in and cast at any creature they see. The occasional slip is alright, frusterating, but I don't mind. But when a certain person routinely ignores my disk and begin lobbing spells is when I start getting upset.

On the flip side, when I hunt with my wizard, I use ewave to incapacitate trali shamans. I have hit the occasional hider / wandering group and knocked them down. I've tried to alleviate this by waiting for the shaman to prep a spell. Doesn't always work, but I rarely hit any hiders if I pause that couple seconds anymore.

[Askip]

Hiders will get poached, I do it all the time. If the ambusher makes their presence known afterwards, I offer them a disk.

If I walk into a room and the critter is not stunned/prone/etc, I attack. Taking the time to look at the critter for injuries or to search for hiders could be fatal, so I don't.

If ambushers do not accept that the increased power of ambushing comes with the price of sometimes being poached, that is their problem and not yours.

:D

[Viridian]

Originally posted by Shalla
you have enough time to type cough, why don't you just type ambush/kill <critter>. Why cough? and why wait? is there some kind of tactic hiders are supposed to wait for like the critter going on offensive? It's ridiculous. I try to be considerate not to poach your kills.. but have common sense to realize I can't see you when I walk in, and I'm sorry that I act fast and that you chose to cough instead of killing the critter. The hunting life of an ambusher, you can't be seen. It happens. Get used to it. :rolleyes:




Okay, I played a rogue for two years in GS, usually I would cough or say, excuse me, and be polite. One of the reasons is because some of us don't use macros...and sometimes you aren't always ready off the bat...also...those damn creatures can be sometimes hard to hide from, so why blow a strike, then have to have the trouble of trying to hide again?

Those were always my reasons, but it is good to hunt and have a disk. :grin:

[Heshinar]

When I started my Rogue and then began ambushing I accepted that someone might come in while I was hiding. I can understand that. I move on and let them have the critter. I accept that.

What I dislike the most is that I have been in a room waiting for a critter to swing and I have NOT been hiding. The critter spawned in the room with me there and someone comes in and hits their macro without evening noticing I am actually there.

HIGHLIGHT YOUR DAMN STRINGS SO YOU SEE A MESSAGE THAT SOMEONE IS THERE BEFORE YOU MACRO.

I have people say sorry didnt see you. Well if I am not hiding and I am in plain sight how the hell do you NOT see me? :mad:
I think those people that do that are ignorant and uncaring.

[Kainen]

I have the word disk highlighted.. it's not THAT hard to get a disk. Seriously. If I accidently kill something someone is about to ambush.. I apologize and move on. If someone kills something I am ambushing, and they apologize I accept it and mention the disk. It's not the end of the world.

[Jolena]

As a hiding/ambushing rogue I can tell you that I normally use a disk and if I don't, then I don't get too uptight about an occassional accidental poach. I realize that it's part of the game since I don't have a disk. I also am okay with people not always seeing the disk or whatnot and making a mistake, we've all done it.

However in answer to something you said, Shalla, about just swing and why wait? Yes, it is indeed easier and what some if not a lot of rogues do, to wait for the creature to try to sniff them out which puts them into offensive. So not always will a rogue just hide, ambush, be done with it. Sometimes it IS in fact, hide, wait for the critter to do whatever it is they do to put them into offensive, and then ambush. Just FYI. :)

[Fallen]

My take on it is much the same as others. Having someone blast your kills is highly annoying, and as a pure I usually let someone have 1 slip-up.

When I poach an ambusher's kill, I will make an acknowledgement that I realized I made the mistake, and as a player will make an effort to be additionally careful not to do it again. If they have no disk, mistakes will happen if the creature is especially deadly.

In the end, unless I am DC/Implosion hunting, I rarely kill anything in one hit anyway. As often as I poach an ambusher's kill, I also serve the creature up to them on a platter ... Kind of like some odd form of inadvertent group hunting.

[Edited on 9-25-2005 by Fallen]

[Sylvan Dreams]

I'm not familiar with moulis or that hunting area so I don't know if this would work...but I do know that in some areas if there are known ambushers around, people will wait until the creature's first attack. If the ambusher hasn't made themselves known by them, the creature is fair game.

[Fallen]

I'm not familiar with moulis or that hunting area so I don't know if this would work...but I do know that in some areas if there are known ambushers around, people will wait until the creature's first attack. If the ambusher hasn't made themselves known by them, the creature is fair game. >>

At the moment it isn't really an issue for me in the Tower. I have to 715 everything before I hit it, so they have a good amount of time to make their presence known.

I don't script hunt, so the ambushers usually have enough time to do something between the time I enter the room, and I attack the creature.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Sylvan Dreams
I'm not familiar with moulis or that hunting area so I don't know if this would work...but I do know that in some areas if there are known ambushers around, people will wait until the creature's first attack. If the ambusher hasn't made themselves known by them, the creature is fair game.


Moulis can be very deadly to younger characters. They can stick you to wall and wail the crap out of you.

Plus, if they don't have a disk why should you have to wait that much longer to fry and involve the risk of getting yourself killed?

If I'm in hiding and someone poaches my kill I either come out of hiding so they see I am there and leave, or I sneak out of the room. Unless someone does it to me over and over again, it's not like it's the only creature around.

The only thing that ticks me off is when I am using haste, I run into a room hide, someone walks in and I ambush the critter and kill it and THEN my disk finally catches up while they are bitching about how I was the one that poached because they didn't see my disk. Usually if people are an ass about it or if I accidently poach once because they are in hiding or such, and they freak out, I'll drop a few diamonds and apologize and then head on my way.

[The Ponzzz]

Don't really think ya understood what I was saying.

If Player1 just hid about to kill Prey1, but suddenly Player2 runs in, kills searches and walks away. Player1 then stalks Player2 and ambushes Prey2 stealing Player2's kill.

I had to do this in warfarers to get some kills from people who were MAing...

[Gan]

Someone used to do that to me in the Temple... come to find out it was a sucky script. I modified my killgroup so those not in my group could not search my kills, then took of the head of the unresponsive scripter when I RP'd it out.

[Andreal]

If you ever want to kill someone legitly, doing it for poaching is probably the easiest way. Which is why some people suck!

[Gan]

Agreed, although eventually that is even looked down upon by the GM's as intentional PvP when your kill history starts stacking up. Catch a GM in a bad mood or if you happen to be a High Maintenance Customer and its you that will get bit in the long run.

[Gushi]

As an ambusher you should expect some level of frustration hunting when others are present.

What I have trouble with is the folks that use open casts such as sonic disruption, major e-wave or open implode as an opener to combat in a place they know is populated. Have a little curtosey and open up with a stun or a focused spell and save those spells for areas less populated.

:D