First Ranger

[Raine]

I've played the game for a long time, however not very long as it being 4, and never as a Ranger, so I'm not entirely sure what to do here.

I'm not even going to try Archery, it's too much, I don't understand the DS system for it, I give up.

For a Ranger, who can't train in shield enough to make it his only defense, same for dodge, should I 1x shield and .5x dodge? Or is that pretty much a waste of points since with a bigger shield my dodge will be halved anyhow?

Is 1x stalking and hiding worthless? If i train in Shadow Mastery as well, can it work out well enough? Practically the same for Ambushing--I've always had my rogues double trained at least in both (also, not entirely sure how perception effects ambushing now).

Are there any skills, besides weaponry, that I should either 2x or not even bother with?


:::edit::: At what level does Semi-dux usually kick in? I'd like to overtrain spells until then to get certain ones faster.


That's all I can think of for now...I'm quite worried about making a semi-balanced ambushe, since a rogue can train so much more in the required skills.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by Raine]

[Apotheosis]

rangers suck. be a rogue or wizard.

[Chaddy]

Rangers are the best. They're far better than rogues.

[Dwarven Empath]

Rangers Rule!

[Raine]

Yes, yes. .....Answer my questions! :help:

[The Ponzzz]

Real constructive posts so far.

But, 1x dodge as a min. .5x shield as a min. I would believe 1x hiding to be a waste, you won't be able to hide against alot of like level creatures later on without creating a head wound first.

Without knowing what weapon you are going with, taking up the shield is worth it in the beginning. And 1x PT and armor for semi dux to actually be usefull. Brig-hauberk is normally a safe bet to end it for armor.

For spells, I know most go 1x. And 1x is usefull in the beginning, as you start grabbing level 20-25 you can start to slow it down to.8x or even .75x so you will start to notice your semi-dux.

Other than that, you'll need mana, and the rest is your choice.

[The Ponzzz]

But if you wanna post what weapon style you are going with, I can help ya with things like CMs, Ambush and Shield use. Along with the magical end of things.

[Chaddy]

If I were going that training route I think I might prefer .5x shield 1x dodge and 1.5x stalking and hiding, that is assuming that you're trying to train in those skills as little as you possibly can yet still have them be effective. Know though that training minimum amounts in anything you won't really get major benefits until you're a higher train. Semi-dux isn't going to kick in for a long time if you over train in spells there in lies the problem.

[Chaddy]

:::ducks::: Sorry Ponzzz I didn't see your post.

[The Ponzzz]

No problem. So there ya have it, two of us have pretty much the same out look on the situation. So, post more away and we can tackle your ranger for ya(not literally).

[Tromp]

ranger/archer is alot of fun in my opinion

I think its
2x stalking/hiding
2x perception
2x ambush
1x armor
1x pt
2x ranged
1x harness
1x spells
1x or 2x dodge (forgot)

The rest is (which won't be much) you can put in lore or mana control.

With Camo and Tangle you'll be pretty deadly from the shadows shooting arrows in in critter's eyes.

[Raine]

I'm going edged weapons at the moment, they seem to be the most cost effective.

The Over training in spells is pretty much that I'll have the 3 spirit, one level low on ranger from full, and then once I enter the area of semi-dux I'll not train in spells for 3 levels to return to normal.

I'd put more in the ambusing skills if I could figure out exactly what wasn't neccesary out of the other skills I've been training in:

I'm pretty much 2x in edged, then 1x in armor, shield, CM, ambush, PF, stalking and hiding, perception, and survival. Harness power I've been keeping at my level, and Spells the same until I overtrain next level. I have mutli-op at 5 for the first one.

I'm going to start getting my first rank of swimming and set of 5 climbing next level (currently level 6), as well as training in dodging for a bit to catch it up as much as possible--Is it really more worthwhile than shield use is?

The way my plan looks, I could probably lose some shield and train a bit more in stalking and hiding after 10, but I'm worried about my defensive capabilities if I switch to brig before I'm trained for it and dodge is my main defense (as full trained brig will be forever at 1x armor use).

[The Ponzzz]

MoC is a hog of points. And you wanna be sniping/ambushing from hiding. So you won't see anything great out of 5 ranks in MoC. You won't even get the defensive bonus from two targets in the room.

My ranger as of now, 3xes in hiding. I hurl and the point is STAYING hidden. Semi dux isn't something you see until late 30s possible 40s. SO don't train for it. Grab AC, grab spirit spells if ya want, grab lores and go up the ranger spell list to yea get Assume Aspect if ya want. As long as you keep up with 1x PT you should see a noticable semi dux in time. Plus having elemental resistance on your armor, you should be golden like a shower.

[Stunseed]

Cookie cutter plan OHE style

1x armor 5, 0
1x shield 5, 0
2x edged 6, 2
1x pf 4, 0
1x cm 6, 4
1x amb 3, 3
1x dodge 7, 5
1x hp 0, 5
1x spells 0, 17
2x hide 4, 2
1x perception 0, 2

Total 40, 40

The rest is your choice.

Stunseed (at level 60), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 170 70
Shield Use.........................| 162 62
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62
Edged Weapons......................| 224 124
Ambush.............................| 167 67
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 175 75
Dodging............................| 162 62
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 162 62
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 162 62
Perception.........................| 162 62
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 21

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 40

I've got nearly 40% dux, because that is the path I chose.

Rangers can't 3x hiding in GS4. I also wouldn't 1x dodge (too expensive), as the simu-recommended dodge training for Rangers is .75x.

You get hefty Dodge ranks for 618, that increase per rank in the Ranger circle. I guess it's looking likely that Dodge is going to become a factor in maneuver attacks shortly, but as a Ranger you're already (arguably) the best class when it comes to avoiding maneuver attacks.

1x Dodge is too much cost for too little benefit--for a Ranger.

[Stunseed]

< 1x Dodge is too much cost for too little benefit--for a Ranger. >

Disagree. I think anything over 1x would be a bit much, and I could perhaps be convinced .75x would work alright. However, with 618 running, Stunseed has 104 ranks of dodging, which is great for the DS and manuevers.

Originally posted by Stunseed

Disagree. I think anything over 1x would be a bit much, and I could perhaps be convinced .75x would work alright. However, with 618 running, Stunseed has 104 ranks of dodging, which is great for the DS and manuevers.

Right now, dodge has nothing to do with maneuvers. And don't you use two handers or something? That's a bit different than a sword/shield ranger.

[Stunseed]

< Right now, dodge has nothing to do with maneuvers. >

Soon enough they will. Dodge DS doesn't hurt, either.

< And don't you use two handers or something? That's a bit different than a sword/shield ranger. >

< Stunseed (at level 60), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 170 70
Shield Use.........................| 162 62
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62
Edged Weapons......................| 224 124
Ambush.............................| 167 67
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 175 75
Dodging............................| 162 62
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 162 62
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 162 62
Perception.........................| 162 62
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 21

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 40 >

[The Ponzzz]

Yea I ment 2x hiding, heh sorry about that

[Drew]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets

Originally posted by Stunseed

Disagree. I think anything over 1x would be a bit much, and I could perhaps be convinced .75x would work alright. However, with 618 running, Stunseed has 104 ranks of dodging, which is great for the DS and manuevers.

Right now, dodge has nothing to do with maneuvers. And don't you use two handers or something? That's a bit different than a sword/shield ranger.



My character uses two handers and has no dodge training. Waste of points, at least until they implement it affecting manuevers.


Stunseed posted a good plan for a OHE/shield ranger, that's an excellent base to start from and pick up your other skills from there.


As has been mentioned 1x is not the minimum for rangers, it's the maximum. Consider .75x or even .5x if you are short on points.

[Drakam]

Rangers can be very versatile profession. Feel free to be unique if you must. But take time to find what works for you. For example.....

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 175 75
Combat Maneuvers...................| 169 69
Edged Weapons......................| 252 152
Ranged Weapons.....................| 252 152
Ambush.............................| 175 75
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Dodging............................| 169 69
Harness Power......................| 175 75
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Survival...........................| 175 75
Stalking and Hiding................| 240 140
Perception.........................| 216 116
Climbing...........................| 111 27
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 35 7

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 42

[Stunseed]

Welcome to PC, Drakam.

[Drakam]

Thanks. I read from time to time but rarely feel the need to post. Rangers are a passion for me. I love playing one and true they are known for being Jacks of All Trades, but I find that more useful then others may think.

[Stunseed]

You should post more often. We have a great group of folks here who play Rangers, and another one would be welcome.

[Czeska]

I have 2 rangers, both young. One is a sniper archer, one is TWC with MOC. She's a blast.

[Raine]

Yeah, so far Stunseed's plan is pretty much exactly what I was trying for, I just didn't take into account the extra level 0 ranks you can get, so while I was "1x" I wasn't caught up to where the price doubles for the skill, so I was getting anxious.

two last questions!

Anyone have a good "Archery for Dummies" guide? I would kind of like to take a look at it before my migration wears out, but I'm the equivalent of a zombified kindergartener when it comes to knowing anything about it.

From what I saw, Summoning and Blessing were the only two lores to repeat enough to be worthwhile, but are they reall worthwhile? They mostly add small percentages, so is that cost really worth the lower mana control/arcane symbols I'd train in otherwise?

Thanks for the help, by the way, I love to role play new characters, but I need a little bit of pride in their abilities to stay with them.

[Drakam]

When it comes to lores for Rangers, I'm still a bit old school in that I don't see much point unless you intend on using the spell 620 in armor. I haven't tried lores with my ranger spells nor read up too much on just how much of a factor the lores do. But I do quite well without the lores. I would be curious to hear from an elder ranger that is well trained in lores and how they are affecting their spells.

Archery can be quite simple once you get the basics.
- Hiding helps you get the critical kills.
- Aim for the eyes if the creature is wearing hauberk or plate. Those are the weakest spots.
- Camo is great for ranged weapons. You get the auto hide, the +30 attack bonus, and unless I'm incorrect you get the bonus for a critical kill.
- Perception and ambush skills helps your attack strength along with training in ranged weapons.
- Master fletched arrows add a +5 bonus to your attack. An example, a 4x(+20) bow and 1x(+5) arrow give you a 5x(+25) weapon
- Arrows can be e-bladed to 4x(+20) and following the example above you would have at maximium with a 4x bow, a 9x weapon in your hands (4x bow, 1x master fletched arrow, 4x e-blade).

[Drakam]

oops I forgot one more point when it comes to archery.
- when you're skilled enough you can remain hidden when you shoot and if you used camo (608), you retain the +30 attack bonus

[StrayRogue]

http://www.archeryhaven.com/index.html

It hasn't been updated in a while, but the basics are all there.

You'll be thankful you trained in Dodge, believe me. I hate to think what Chiv's DS will be when he hits the higher levels. I still want more and I 3x dodge.

Rogues > Rangers

[Tromp]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
http://www.archeryhaven.com/index.html

It hasn't been updated in a while, but the basics are all there.

You'll be thankful you trained in Dodge, believe me. I hate to think what Chiv's DS will be when he hits the higher levels. I still want more and I 3x dodge.

Rogues > Rangers

I read the link you posted. My ranger archer is currently training 2x perception and ambush but the site recommends only a 3x combination of the two. This would be awesome if its true. I could use some lore and sharing ranks. Am I over training?

Originally posted by StrayRogue
You'll be thankful you trained in Dodge, believe me. I hate to think what Chiv's DS will be when he hits the higher levels. I still want more and I 3x dodge.

Rogues > Rangers

Dodge is nowhere near as crucial to a Ranger as it is to a Rogue. It really all comes down to your preference when it comes to a Ranger's Dodge Training. 7/5 is expensive for 1 rank of Dodge, and the benefits it gives are laughable in my opion.

I went from 101 Dodge Ranks to 24 (not including ranger spells that add Dodge ranks), and I only lost (approx.) 20 DS in offensive stance. I'd rather put those 539/385 training points into something useful, or some DS that doesn't disappear when you are stunned.

Sunburst > 3x hiding rogue

[Edited on 9-23-2005 by Tea & Strumpets]

[Kenn]

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by StrayRogue
http://www.archeryhaven.com/index.html

It hasn't been updated in a while, but the basics are all there.

You'll be thankful you trained in Dodge, believe me. I hate to think what Chiv's DS will be when he hits the higher levels. I still want more and I 3x dodge.

Rogues > Rangers

I read the link you posted. My ranger archer is currently training 2x perception and ambush but the site recommends only a 3x combination of the two. This would be awesome if its true. I could use some lore and sharing ranks. Am I over training?

At level 69, I 2x perception, 1x ambush as a ranger. With camo, a pure potion, CoL signs, and 5x longbow with 1x ebladed arrows, my AS is 439. Relativly low for my level, but shooting something from hiding drops the target into automatic offensive. At cap, I'll try to have 1.5x ambush... but my AS gets the job done now. With a full wizard spell up (which I am very fond of) I can easily break 450 DS in offensive without WoF. I am actually planning on getting a few ranks in Spirit Summoning lores for a couple little things. If I didn't, I'm sure I could start getting in my ambush ranks now.