Many Women at Elite Colleges Set Career Path to Motherhood

[Drew]

Interesting read, my kind of girls!


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/national/20women.html?pagewanted=1&incamp=article_popular

[Killer Kitten]

<-------Not a child person.

And apparently not trendy. Oh well.

[Anailea]

If my daughter wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, I certainly would pay to send her to an elite college like Yale.

[Warriorbird]

I don't see where intelligence isn't a good quality for a stay at home Mom. Upwardly mobile men aren't going to want to have a housewife who's an idiot (unless she's completely perfect 10 gorgeous). Most women aren't. Intelligent women may also do a better job raising children.

[Miss X]

I'm a few months off getting my Masters degree from a very good university. I still plan to stay at home and look after my Children when I have them. I couldn't have them raised by hired help.

The difference is, now women have the choice. I'll choose to put my career on hold because Children are more important than me. I wish my mum could have been at home when we were kids (she was on her own so couldnt.)

[Jadewolff]

I guess it comes down to whether or not you believe that the only purpose of getting a quality education is to make money. Personally, I don't.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I don't see where intelligence isn't a good quality for a stay at home Mom. Upwardly mobile men aren't going to want to have a housewife who's an idiot (unless she's completely perfect 10 gorgeous). Most women aren't. Intelligent women may also do a better job raising children.

I am not disagreeing that intelligence or education isn't a good quality for a stay at home Mom. However many affluent men want wives who are perfect 10's with nothing between their ears. The number of wealthy people I know who have wives who are absolute idiots but look good is astounding. Most of them couldn't balance a cheque book if they had the help of a Cray Computer.

[Warriorbird]

Oh, I totally agree. The wealthiest person I know has an absolutely vapid wife. However you can usually tell if a girl's gonna be a perfect 10 by the time she's college age... and college is an excellent time for "getting a man."

[ElanthianSiren]

Also, if you're college age and attending an exclusive school, you will most likely find an exclusive mate. College = personals for some.

-M

[GSLeloo]

I don't understand why lately being a stay at home mom is such a bad thing? In the most recent class I am taking we read a LOT of feminist literature and it's just like... I don't feel like I am being oppressed and motherhood is something I would choose. And if I could afford to not work and be a mom, of course I would.

[xtc]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Also, if you're college age and attending an exclusive school, you will most likely find an exclusive mate. College = personals for some.

-M

Damn and all I did was study, well I partied a little. I didn't realise it was a expensive dating service. :lol:

[The Ponzzz]

I don't think a Doctrine in Chemistry will make anyone a better mom. If ya know ya wanna be a mom, and a stay at home one at that, then educate yourself and save some fucking money.

[Warriorbird]

A chemistry Doctorate would probably teach you how to poison penny-pinching husbands however.

[Amaron]

I was never a true stay at home mom...

I was looking for a full time teaching job when my son was born so I took a year and substituted a couple of days a week so I was home with him most of the time. when I wasn't he was with his Granny who was a great child raiser too...

I was teaching full time when my daughter was born, but my husband was laid off the day she was born.. soo I kept working and he stayed at home.

I would have liked to have a little more time with my kids but I do not feel they were neglected in any way nor do I feel I was a bad mother.

My kids also do not feel I let then down or wasn't there for them. NO matter how much I had to do at school the next day, I was the one up all night rocking them when sick... or taking personal days off to go to preschool events and the such.
( plus as a teacher I have most of my summer off, when I am not taking grad classes (6 credits from a masters here)

My husband and I worked out schedules and planned many family only times for us all.

J

[Janarth]

Dammit. I want a honey with money. Cmon! I want to be the one to stay home with the kid, toss the ball around, watch sports center and spend half an hour doing the days chores. Or better yet, hire a swedish nanny. These women are screwing up my dream!

[Warriorbird]

I'm a kept man right now. It gives amusing perspective.

:chuckles:

[Back]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
I don't understand why lately being a stay at home mom is such a bad thing? In the most recent class I am taking we read a LOT of feminist literature and it's just like... I don't feel like I am being oppressed and motherhood is something I would choose. And if I could afford to not work and be a mom, of course I would.

This article is making the rounds on the blogs today for the reason GSLeloo points out. There is criticism about the NYT using the elite as model for all women. If the premise of the argument is that most all women will choose to be stay at home moms, talking only to the privelidged will garuntee agreement. Most women in this country don't have a choice and have to work while raising kids.

[4a6c1]

Off topic, but most of the feminists I've met are annoyingly boring and contradict themselves often. So I enjoyed that article.

.....Not that I want kids. Or that I'd stay home with any kids that I ended up having even though I dont want them. And in the event that such an injustice to my schedule occurs I will most definately hire a ton of help to care for the poor kid. Yes that sounds nice. One to change the diaper. One to powder the baby ass. One to come and lie to me and tell me my kids shit dosnt stink. Ahhh, ideal parenthood.

[The Ponzzz]

Feminist want all the rights of men with none of the bad that comes along with it.

You want to do anything with your freedom? Fine, be prepared to get fucking sucked in the face with a bat the moment you cheat!

[Miss X]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
Feminist want all the rights of men with none of the bad that comes along with it.

You want to do anything with your freedom? Fine, be prepared to get fucking sucked in the face with a bat the moment you cheat!

It's neither normal, nor acceptable for a man to get "sucked in the face with a bat."

It's the same with women.

That was quite possibly the worst argument I've ever heard.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by Miss X]

[The Ponzzz]

My friend was just blamed for cheating, he came home that night to have all his belongings on the front lawn(the ground was wet too, it was not raining) and tried to explain he didn't do a thing. So he entered the house and she said she was gonna hit with the bat if he stepped any closer. He did, lights out for him.

The reason she was so edgy was because her friend told her she saw his car near his co workers house(was not even his car, he was with me!). And she in fact was having a relation with a man(not sexual but my understandings, but alot of touchy feely and kissing), which created her paranoia to be truth.

So after she found the truth out, I think he should hit her with a bat for being all sorry to him. And getting into his two feet of personal.

But like I said, I have plenty of female friends, I have an ex wife and I know how feminist can be. Well off topic, but I have yet to see a feminist take the bad with the good. I don't speak for all of you, but I speak from what i know.

[StrayRogue]

Women and men are fundamentally different. Even if they share the same personal rights (in say law), they are still going to be different. While it's stereotyping, women are emotional alot of the time and so, expect an emotional response.

[Miss X]

Even feminists understand that men are in the main, physically stronger than women.

Idiots engage in violence, male or female, no distinction. They are all idiots.

If a man hit me in the face with a bat, I would not hit him back afterwards (I would in self defence, naturally). I'd just get my stuff and be gone. It should be the same for your friend. I refuse to accept that in order for equality, women should have to accept the idea of violence. It's never normal.

Women just want equality in terms of work, status etc. We're not demanding the world on a plate, just equality. What the fuck is so wrong with that?

[Skeeter]

I always felt stay at home mom's were either lazy or totally lacked ambition. Kind of a waste of a life.

I expect this view won't be popular :devilsmile:

[The Ponzzz]

Well Chica, you come explain that to these females for me! HAH! I have no problem with women working. Once they get fired though, its DISCRIMINATION!

[Warriorbird]

Y'know, Ponzzz, even arguing from a stereotyping conservative viewpoint... I think there's a lot of men that claim firings were based on discrimination.

[Jayvn]

She can hang her degree up next to her pots and pans so she can see it while she's barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen

[The Ponzzz]

Yea. But you ever hear the white male(minority) claim it or be told it was unless they were young/old. The man who's 30 is just lazy :)

[DeV]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Women and men are fundamentally different. Even if they share the same personal rights (in say law), they are still going to be different. While it's stereotyping, women are emotional alot of the time and so, expect an emotional response. And in the same breath I would argue that men are just as emotional as women. Sure it is expressed in very different ways but it is definitely no less than that of a woman's emotions.

[Apotheosis]

When Robeeeeen has my babies, you better be damn sure she's staying home, doing all the cooking, childrearing, etc...


p.s. we're having 6

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by Yswithe]

[DeV]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
Yea. But you ever hear the white male(minority) claim it or be told it was unless they were young/old. The man who's 30 is just lazy :) You need to wait a cool 95 years from now until you can rightly claim minority status. You really can't right now, sorry. Blacks will have grown only 1% and Asians will have caught up with blacks at a whooping 13 or 14% of our American population. Whites are estimated to be around 40% and Hispanics will pwn us all by catching up at 33% and growing. In the mean time, our borders remain open. It's called assimilation. The solution: have more sex and lots of it. Maybe having intelligent--degreed women in the kitchen won't be so bad. They have alot of catching up to do afterall.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Yswithe
When Robeeeeen has my babies, you better be damn sure she's staying home, doing all the cooking, childrearing, etc...


p.s. we're having 6

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by Yswithe]

......

*RUN AWAAAAYYYY*

scary scary scary scary

[Sylvan Dreams]

I don't understand why someone would want to spend the money to go to a school like Yale just to be a stay-at-home mom. Why bother chasing a degree at all when you just want to be a baby factory. Let the scholarship money go to people who are actually going to USE their education for something other than reproducing.

[Warriorbird]

I think you're being dismissive of the choice to be really attentive to children... to be really attentive to the home. Calling a stay at home Mom just a "baby factory" is pretty prejudiced.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I think you're being dismissive of the choice to be really attentive to children... to be really attentive to the home. Calling a stay at home Mom just a "baby factory" is pretty prejudiced.

I disagree. If someone wants to stay home and sit with their kids all day - great for them. However, if someone is going to a school like Yale with that intent, then in my opinion, spending the $39k PER YEAR that it takes to go to Yale is a waste of money. If one wants to be educated, there are cheaper options. Also, if one is getting a ride to Yale in part or in full on scholarships, then they are taking AWAY from OTHER students that would use their degree in a career. Coming out of school armed with a bachelor's degree and around $160k in a debt with the goal of being a stay at home mom seems to be an incredibly stupid decision. But, that's just me.

That being said, the 'baby factory' term is what I call the stay at home mom's I know in person. Why? Because that's all they do. Stay home, make babies. To ME personally, that's just a waste.

[Warriorbird]

If someone wants to stay home and sit with their kids all day - great for them.


To ME personally, that's just a waste.


Because that's all they do.

One "stay at home" Mom I know is a fairly successful non fiction writer. Another one of them homeschools all four of her kids. Another handles the appointments for her husband's insurance agency. Another raises several foster kids as well as her own. I rarely run into any that "do nothing" if they are educated. I wouldn't call it a waste in any of those incidences.

If they want to get as intelligent as they can, more power to them. I don't frown on it as a choice. You seem to see it as a "waste" despite saying "more power to them." If they're brighter than someone who wants a more traditional career..tough luck for that person.

I think the hatred directed towards that option is one of the darkest palls cast on feminism.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Jolena]

I'm *almost* shocked at some of the negative views displayed here towards stay-at-home moms. I say *almost* because to be honest, it's always had a stigmatism associated with it and the majority of it is based on a very small amount of mothers who choose to stay at home with the kids.

Let me just educate some of you out there who think that stay at home moms just sit on their asses all day eating bon bons, watching talk shows on the tube and popping out bebes. I'm a stay-at-home mom and when it started it was not something I would have chosen to do. I was forced to unfortunately due to some medical issues with my youngest of three children. At this time that child is doing much better, but with a long way to go, is four years old and my other two are 6 and 12. All three are in school, although the youngest gets out about 1 1/2 hours earlier then the middle child.

My day consists of cleaning a house that holds 3 children and two adults. I do about 2 loads of laundry every day, including folding and putting them away. I do about 2-3 loads of dishes every day (because damnit our new house didn't have a dishwasher) by hand, including putting them away after they dry. I vaccum, dust, clean the bathroom, make my bed, clean the kitchen (sweep/mop/clean the stove/clean counters) every day. I make five trips by car every day to just take kids to and bring back kids from school. I cook dinner every day during the week and during the weekends I cook lunch and dinner and occassionally breakfast. My day starts at 7 am and ends around 11 pm. Somewhere in between I go to school, do my homework, study and then help kids with their homework. I also do things in the evenings with my children with their extra-curricular activities and take my youngest to all of his specialist appointments with doctors.

Now, that is done every day during the week and some of it is done on the weekends as well. Tell me when I have the time to just sit on my ass for hours at a time, eating bon bons, making babies, and hell I can't remember the last time I had time to watch tv, take a bath without being interrupted, use the restroom without someone knocking, or just have some alone time for myself. Being a mom is a full time job. I never thought it would be 'easy' to stay at home with kids but I had no idea it would be this time consuming either.

Some of you have expressed doubts as to why a woman would want to be educated and still stay at home. I'll tell you why, as I'm getting my education right now and am a stay at home mom. Because one day (and we all lament yet look forward to this day) they will not need us to be there for them at school parties, PTA meetings, scout meetings, baseball games, dance recitals, etc. One day they will be independant enough and have enough of their own social life that our lives won't be used to entertain, take care of, nourish and overall guide their every move. And when that day comes, we would like to have something to do with our time besides sit back and wonder what the hell to do now and how to do it.

Hopefully that will give some of you that think we are all lazy, wastes of skin who just sit around popping out babies a reason to think twice. I for one, cherish any time that I get to even HAVE sex, much less pop out a baby, with my man. It's rare and far in between, trust me. Kids take up a lot of your time. Its rewarding yes, but it's also a lot of sacrifice.

[DeV]

My two cents.

I applaud any woman who chooses to either be a stay at home mom as a career or put her career on hold to raise her children. FATHERS should have no qualms about doing this too. It's also sad that there is a stigma attached to something as desperately needed as this, in this day in age.

If there were more stay at home moms or dads we wouldn't see the mass amount of "retards" walking around who were latch key kids with little to no daily social interaction with their parents that currently take up our breathing space. (I'm not suggesting that all latch key kids fit this profile but for the most part there are many that do.) Kudos to the moms AND dads who choose to do this. More power to them.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by DeV]

[Shari]

I didn't read the article but I think I get the gist based on what everyone else is saying.

My mother never went to college. My dad has 4 degrees in godknowswhat engineering. My dad treats my mom like dirt and vice-versa. Why he doesn't divorce her is beyond me, and my mother simply doesn't because she has no job/college experience. She knows she wouldn't be anywhere near the lifestyle she has now if she divorced him.

I don't want to be that kind of woman if my relationship with Scott fell through. I want to ensure that I can take care of myself if the option to be a stay-at-home mom doesn't work out.

[Terminator X]

I pretty much agree with the sentiment that a not-retarded ivy league woman who wishes to become a "house mom" has the chances of not sucking as badly as a crackwhore college drop-out aspiring for the same *job* :duh:

Anyone else read this article as blatant to a point of painfulness..?