British Forces Join Insurgency?

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Two British troops were arrested (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/21/iraq.britain/index.html) by Iraqi police, then later rescued by other British forces that ran an armored vehicle into a detention center where they were kept.

Read the article. The two Brits were arrested because they could not identify themselves properly as British forces. Meanwhile, they are dressed in arab garb and driving a vehicle heavily armed.

There has got to be more to this story but sadly we’ll probably never hear it.

[Sean of the Thread]

They prolly had a good chunk of the 1.8billion that is missing.

[4a6c1]

They were probably just diplomatic agents. Its not uncommon.

[Sean of the Thread]

Maybe they were two star struck lovers trying to escape the opression of the British army.

[Skirmisher]

UK soldiers 'freed from militia' <----BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm)

Seems to be explained here.

Just like in Blackhawk down they showed US special forces operating in civilian clothes beforehand these were SAS forces.

[4a6c1]

:)

[Skirmisher]

I think it does point out a problem, but it's with insurgents infiltrating Police ranks, and to a scary degree.

The police refused an order from the central Iraqi govt to release the two soldiers and instead gave them into the custody of a local militia?

Thats speaking volumes about how things are going in Iraq.

[Back]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
UK soldiers 'freed from militia' <----BBC link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm)

Seems to be explained here.

Just like in Blackhawk down they showed US special forces operating in civilian clothes beforehand these were SAS forces.

It could be surmized that it was just a breakdown of communications between the Iraqi police and the British forces... both articles say pretty much the same thing, except BBC puts more emphasis on the claim that insurgents have infiltrated the Iraqi police.

Also intresting in the BBC article was that the MOD denied witness acounts of 150 real prisoners escaping in the mayhem.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. I don't doubt the militias and insurgents have thoroughly infiltrated the police.

[xtc]

So much for sovereign rule when the British circumvent the law when they don't like it. The BBC article reads like it was written by the British army.

[StrayRogue]

It's the SAS, What do you expect? They don't technically exist.

[Back]

You guys should have just sent James Bond and be done with it.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by xtc
So much for sovereign rule when the British circumvent the law when they don't like it. The BBC article reads like it was written by the British army.

A- The police were no longer obeying orders from their own superiors.

B- The law of that land says that those soldiers were to be turned over to the British Armed forces.

The BBC has not exactly been the biggest supporter of the conflict in Iraq so I do not see them suddenly becoming the states cheerleader as some of our own media outlets have been.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by xtc
So much for sovereign rule when the British circumvent the law when they don't like it. The BBC article reads like it was written by the British army.

A- The police were no longer obeying orders from their own superiors.

B- The law of that land says that those soldiers were to be turned over to the British Armed forces.

The BBC has not exactly been the biggest supporter of the conflict in Iraq so I do not see them suddenly becoming the states cheerleader as some of our own media outlets have been.

A- No where in the article does it say that the police were not obeying orders from their own superiors. It said there release was being negotiated.

B- It is incumbent upon the Iraqis to implement the law of the land not for the Brits to pulls cowboy stunts as they wait for the implementation.

Also do you a link that proves your assertion that Iraqi laq states that foreign soldiers are to be dealt with by foreign governments.

Lets not forget these 2 British soldiers were arrested for killing Iraqi Policemen. Murder is murder in any country.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by xtc

A- No where in the article does it say that the police were not obeying orders from their own superiors. It said there release was being negotiated.

B- It is incumbent upon the Iraqis to implement the law of the land not for the Brits to pulls cowboy stunts as they wait for the implementation.

Also do you a link that proves your assertion that Iraqi laq states that foreign soldiers are to be dealt with by foreign governments.

Lets not forget these 2 British soldiers were arrested for killing Iraqi Policemen. Murder is murder in any country.

A- " After learning of their arrest, the British military requested that they be handed over to coalition forces in accordance with agreed procedures.

The Iraqi government in Baghdad apparently agreed and ordered the handover, but this seems to have been disregarded by the police. "

B- If the Iraqi's were CAPABLE of enforcing all the laws of the land there would be no need for either UK OR US forces to remain there and I'm pretty sure most people including the Iraqi govt wants them to remain for at least a while longer.

C- The link I got this information and the above quote is also from the BBC website.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4263648.stm

D- They were arrested as suspects, yes. Odd then that they were found not in police custody but in a private home under control of a militia.

[Nieninque]

Actually, they had been trying to get them released all day and they had been or were going to be handed over to militia.

As skirm pointed out, if they were suspected of wrongdoing, they should have been arrested and handed over to coalition forces. Not some dodgy fucking militia group.

Xtc...maybe you can shed some light as to what operation the two soldiers were working on as you seem to know so fucking much about it.

Murder is murder exept where it is in the middle of a fire-fight with insurgents, right?

[Nieninque]

Originally blabbered by Xtc
You seem to have your story wrong.

The British soldiers fired upon and killed two Iraqi Police men, our allies.

The Militia in Iraq is the Army we are working with not the insurgents we are fighting.

I hope this clears things up for you.
Thank god youre here to straighten things out.

The news article I heard mentioned that they were working undercover on trying to discover when, where and how arms exchanges with militia groups were taking place.

It's also worth mentioning that you dont know what went on other than what the news sources you have listened to have told you. It's fucking obvious that the ones you have heard are significantly different than the ones over here.

Before you go hanging people for their part in this genocide or whatever else you are throwing their way, how about we wait until we have a full account? The one thing we can be sure of, if you are as well informed about this situation, as Teeoncy is on interpersonal skills.

[xtc]

Wow at least two of my posts refuting the pro-British military crowd have been deleted and I received no u2u. I wonder what happened?

[Skirmisher]

Don't get all CONSPIRACY THEORY on us there is a problem with other posts too .

Get over yourself, it isn't just you I lost at least one or two also.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally blabbered by Xtc
You seem to have your story wrong.

The British soldiers fired upon and killed two Iraqi Police men, our allies.

The Militia in Iraq is the Army we are working with not the insurgents we are fighting.

I hope this clears things up for you.
Thank god youre here to straighten things out.

The news article I heard mentioned that they were working undercover on trying to discover when, where and how arms exchanges with militia groups were taking place.

It's also worth mentioning that you dont know what went on other than what the news sources you have listened to have told you. It's fucking obvious that the ones you have heard are significantly different than the ones over here.

Before you go hanging people for their part in this genocide or whatever else you are throwing their way, how about we wait until we have a full account? The one thing we can be sure of, if you are as well informed about this situation, as Teeoncy is on interpersonal skills.

You didn't post a link to said article. Regardless it is Iraq not England.

The source I quoted was The London Independent which last I checked was over there. Unfortunately that post was deleted.

It seems Backlash and myself are the only ones who have our facts straight. You and Skirmisher have mixed up The Iraqi police force, and Iraqi army with the insurgents which is an entirely different kettle of fish. One is friend the other is foe.

To summarize:

British soldiers out of uniform shot two Iraqi police men killing one of them. They were arrested and jailed by the Iraqi police. The Brits said nothing about why they did this. The Brits were in negotiating with the Iraqis when the Brits pulled a good old fashioned jail break. They smahed the wall of the jail and witnesses said up to 150 prisioners escaped. The British Government at first denied that this happened then came clean later.

"The witnesses said that up to 150 prisoners took the opportunity to escape through the wall in the confusion."


Here is what is in question:

The Iraqis said the prisioners were held in a house that is annex to the Police station, the house is used to hold prisioners.

The Brits claim the house was a house of a Iraq militia member (READ OUR ALLIES NOT INSURGENTS)

The Brits claim the Iraqis had agreed to free the soldiers and the police wouldn't cooperate. The Iraqis claim no agreement was made and the Brits stole him from them.

"The British military action was condemned as "barbaric, savage and irresponsible" by Mohammed al-Waili, the governor of the province"

"A provincial council spokesman for Basra, Nnadhim al-Jabari, confirmed that they were likely to go before an Iraqi court."


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article313848.ece

[xtc]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Don't get all CONSPIRACY THEORY on us there is a problem with other posts too .

Get over yourself, it isn't just you I lost at least one or two also.

I was just asking.

[StrayRogue]

The Independant isn't exactly a good paper to quote from.

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The Independant isn't exactly a good paper to quote from.

I am not sure why, it is a British paper but here is a quote from another source.

"Distressing as it is to see the human rights violations repeated in Iraq, it is equally distressing to see the media follow sheepishly behind the MOD line, so you have broadcasters like the BBC reporting a number of highly contested aspects of this affair as established fact," Mr O'Connor said.
“We have the situation where all British soldiers in Iraq are keenly aware that in their ranks were convicted murderers – Fisher and Wright – one of whom had since been promoted," Mr O'Connor added"

ARTICLE (http://dailyireland.televisual.co.uk/home.tvt?_ticket=SEB6P9F9CHVR6JL1HONDNWVDALOLQEHFU RUSKONFAWVHAMOCGKRGUU2901MAAQ6FAPP9CHVROEDEIOQN9NT KEKLAIQRGUU20SB&_scope=DailyIreland/Content/News&id=10388&opp=1)

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by xtc]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The Independant isn't exactly a good paper to quote from.

I am not sure why, it is a British paper but here is a quote from another source.



LMAO.

God bless ignorance.

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The Independant isn't exactly a good paper to quote from.

I am not sure why, it is a British paper but here is a quote from another source.



LMAO.

God bless ignorance.

I think I have a decent grasp of British papers. I spent every summer in England for the early part of my life. I still visit every couple of years. I have one English parent and most of relatives live there. Now I don't pretend to be as familiar as someone living in Britain. I know the paper has been against the war in Iraq, but if you discount them on that count than most of the world's papers should be discounted.

As you can see there are those who question the BBC’s objectivity in reporting basically calling them a mouth piece for the British Ministry of Defence.

I take it you are not a fan of The Independent or Robert Fisk, however if you legitimate reasons why it isn't a reliable source please step forward and name them rather than making snide remarks.

Oh FYI The paper is The Independent not The Independant.


[Edited on 9-22-2005 by xtc]

[StrayRogue]

I'm still chuckling at your argument that it would be impartial or believable because it's British. You should read the Daily Mail and the Guardian on the same day some time.

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm still chuckling at your argument that it would be impartial or believable because it's British. You should read the Daily Mail and the Guardian on the same day some time.

No paper is impartial but if you impugn the source state facts. Have they been caught in a scandal like Dan Rather did with phony documents? If not just say you don't like the paper.

[StrayRogue]

I have nothing against the paper. I don't personally read it because it isn't impartial in the slightest. Additionally with this situation if it was SAS that was involved, I'd bet money on the fact that:

A) Had a good reason
B) we'll never know more of it

Considering the unit isn't technically meant to exist, it's unlikely we'll see news of any disciplinary actions against them. This doesn't mean that won't happen (which is more than I can say for some of the American troops), in fact we've got a good record of finding such problems and punishing such crimes (again, which is more than I can say for some of the American troops).

[xtc]

Now here is a paper in Turkey that believes the British soldiers killed an Iraqi police men to create more conflict between the Sunnis and the Shiites which is the reason that the British were so quickly recaptured because they didn't want the soldiers to reveal what they were up to.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m15932&l=i&size=1&hd=0

[xtc]

Interesting enough a paper in Toronto "The Globe and Mail" has written an article that is very similiar to one written by The London Independent. The Globe and Mail is known for being conservative and right wing.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050919.wirkk0919/BNStory/International/

[StrayRogue]

What exactly is your point again? Are you trying to say that the British forces might have fucked up? Thats fair enough. Just be prepared to admit how badly you're own fucking men screwed up time and time again. Unfortunately for us though during those fuck ups both innocent Iraqi's and Allied troops died.

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I have nothing against the paper. I don't personally read it because it isn't impartial in the slightest. Additionally with this situation if it was SAS that was involved, I'd bet money on the fact that:

A) Had a good reason
B) we'll never know more of it

Considering the unit isn't technically meant to exist, it's unlikely we'll see news of any disciplinary actions against them. This doesn't mean that won't happen (which is more than I can say for some of the American troops), in fact we've got a good record of finding such problems and punishing such crimes (again, which is more than I can say for some of the American troops).

I think all papers aren't impartial and have some bias.

I think whether they had good reason or not for their initial actions or subsequent actions isn't something I am prepared to take on faith. Frequently military elite of any nation are up to no good when they undertake an assignment; it is their anonymity that Governments count on. Perhaps the Turkish paper is right about their assignment.

You are correct we will never know the truth about this. We never learned the truth about the Italian journalist whose guards were killed by American soldiers.

Although the SAS are suppose not to exist, they are probably one of the best known elite military units in the world.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by xtc]

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
What exactly is your point again? Are you trying to say that the British forces might have fucked up? Thats fair enough. Just be prepared to admit how badly you're own fucking men screwed up time and time again. Unfortunately for us though during those fuck ups both innocent Iraqi's and Allied troops died.

Quite true.

[Sean of the Thread]

Seriously this doesn't need to be a soldier bash.. they all make fucking mistakes.