What would you like to see in a game?

[PeaceDisturbance]

Ok. I am in a unique situation right now. I have the ability(friend) and funding to start a online game in the next year.

Now, I loved GS when I played. But some things I didn't like. My biggest complaint was Customer Service. That's going to be a very high prioty. But, that doesn't make a game.

I would like to know what people would like to see in a game. Sorry, but this is not going to be a elitest game. When the minorities rule.

So please tell me what you would like to see in a Medevil game. What you wouldn't want to see the most. Now choose things I can have power over.

I personally like numbers. I hate not seeing how close I came to hitting something :P

But all suggestions will be considered. After enough suggestions are made, we can really get into detail on stuff.

Thanks.

PS: I know I should have said more likes. But I didn't want to influence anyones thoughts.

[HarmNone]

I presume this is to be a text-based game, as opposed to a graphical game. I think that's an important thing to know. :)

[PeaceDisturbance]

Of course... :) How are you doing Harmnone?

I never could understand how you could be so true to yourself. Nobody could make you waiver...heh.

But ya. I want to hear the rare answers to this first off. If you could make your own game. After I hear from people. I tell what I think, also my partner in crime(coder).

[HarmNone]

I'm doing great! :D

Okay. Text-based game. Check.

I'll give it some thought and see if I can come up with a list of things I'd like to see in a game, and things I feel would appeal to a broad base of players, as opposed to the more common hack-and-slash player.

As to customer service, you're right. It's critically important, especially as the game grows. The bigger the game gets, the more problems you're going to face in this area. You'll have to develop a plan as to how you propose to deal with that issue. Having a volunteer staff, like GemStone's, can be a thorn in the side...as Simu has shown us. However, a paid staff is beyond the reach of most MUD developers. It's a sticky wicket, don'cha know? ;)

[PeaceDisturbance]

Well, with the numbers aspect. Nothing should be 100% protected. I think a 5% chance to hit even if the monster has 30k defense and you are level 1 with a 10as swing.. As for 1% fumble, more should be done with that...:P

As for customer service. I would love to hear opinions about that also. People that complain about scammers, the scammer will be watched. If caught doing those allegations, banned, items returned. Also, not early retirement plan for GMs like Gemstone has. Let the sell out for 30 grand to someone, then break their uber items after they are sold. There will be no early retirment plans....

Some thoughts. You can suggest pros and cons on those.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by PeaceDisturbance]

[StrayRogue]

My advice is to save your money. No one is interested in text based games anymore really. Plus theres always some person creating a new game somewhere. They always just get lost in the dust or struggle to remain afloat (UL anyone). They also always begin in good hope and good faifth but quickly degenerate to battles, sniping and general bad feelings all around and never really get anything finished (again UL).

[Drew]

Yeah, I wouldn't plan on making any money of a text based game. Too much free competition, you'd either need to have an established player base or have done a ton of devolopment work, both things Simu has you beat by 15 years on. As the proverbial 500 pound gorilla in the field I would say it would be hard to compete in a paid enviroment.

I have to agree. Don't go there if you want to make money. Simu is doing well for themselves do to the sheer amounts of time they have been around and a good tract record as far as gaming is concerned. Not only that, but they do have a very long term and very loyal customer base.

- Arkans

[PeaceDisturbance]

I didn't ask whether to do this or not.

Now the negative feedback is dealt with.

Now, tell me what you want to see. Simple. I am not trying to put Simu out of business. I can afford the connection without this making money. I can afford the servers, etc. Core development is underway already.

But, instead of giving up like 3 people said. I am still going to do this. So now, tell me what you hate and love the most about Gemstone or other online text games.

This is not about getting rich. But I want something that most will like. Not going to let the minorities control it, like they did in Gemstone 3.

So come on. If you are going to keep saying, don't make a game. Bugger off.

oh ya. So glad to still see you hear Harmnone. Best thing that happened to players corner and Gemstone :))))))

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
My advice is to save your money. No one is interested in text based games anymore really. Plus theres always some person creating a new game somewhere. They always just get lost in the dust or struggle to remain afloat (UL anyone). They also always begin in good hope and good faifth but quickly degenerate to battles, sniping and general bad feelings all around and never really get anything finished (again UL).

I feel like you have no clue how much it actually costs..... Not much at all.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Back in the beginning of Simu, it costed a ton. 150k for server and tons for connection.

Now. T-1 for me is 240 a month, nothing. Server? Depends what I want. Simu was using a server 5 years ago that costed only 30k, what they said on the tour. When they started it was 150k and took up a freaking room. Now its small, fit in a closet. for some reason, over the last 5 years, I don't think that price has increased. Still researching which one to purchase. I left that up to the coder.

As for the people giving me worthless advice on something they have no clue on. Don't bother. I am going to make this and enjoy it.

[Alfster]

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance
As for the people giving me worthless advice on something they have no clue on. Don't bother. I am going to make this and enjoy it.

Just by your attitude you're probably not going to get the kinds of responses you want.

Oh well, doesn't bother me any...It's not like I'll play the game anyway.

[PeaceDisturbance]

LoL, for some reason I keep thinking all of you would spend your money at a topless joint. Over making a investment..:P

That's throwing away your money....heh

[Alfster]

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance
LoL, for some reason I keep thinking all of you would spend your money at a topless joint. Over making a investment..:P

That's throwing away your money....heh

Insulting the people you're asking advice from is just plain stupid.

Of course, you thinking that this is a great investment is insulting yourself....

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Alfster

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance
As for the people giving me worthless advice on something they have no clue on. Don't bother. I am going to make this and enjoy it.

Just by your attitude you're probably not going to get the kinds of responses you want.

Oh well, doesn't bother me any...It's not like I'll play the game anyway.

So you like people that tell you to quit before you start? Yep, you do. Because you took their advice.

Oh ya, I am going to not play your game because they said it's not profitable! And you got a bad attitude for saying you are going to still make it!

Oh ya, you are going to enjoy doing it anyways. I certainly not going to play your game!

Yep, another worthless post.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Alfster

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance
LoL, for some reason I keep thinking all of you would spend your money at a topless joint. Over making a investment..:P

That's throwing away your money....heh

Insulting the people you're asking advice from is just plain stupid.

Of course, you thinking that this is a great investment is insulting yourself....

Oh, there advice is to quit before you start. Now that is stupid.

Another worthless and negative post.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by PeaceDisturbance]

[PeaceDisturbance]

I am going to make this. So no more saying don't because I can't get rich doing it.

Bad attitude?

Yep, I am going to make a text based game. I am not trying to put you Gemstone out of business. Don't worry.

I want suggestions on the game. Then we can discuss your suggestions.

Don't make suggestions are worthless. Don't bother.

Now, lets start making positive suggestions.

Do you love numbers of Gemstone? I know I do.

Do you hate customer service of Gemstone? I do

Those are the biggest 2 things I can think of, for now. I got others. But want to hear from everyone else.

The numbers hooked me. The CS made me leave before GS4. I been thinking of restarting my old account, but not going to. Just no interest in it.

So any positive feedback can help. This is not about getting rich again. I can support this, without any profit whatsoever.

[Alfster]

I'm one of those people that doesn't give a shit what people say, if I think I'll enjoy it then I'll do it. I however, when asking advice do not insult anyones point of view, regardless of what they tell me. I could give a shit less if it's profitable for you or not. In fact, I hope you make millions on your investment and come back here and rub it in everyones face that told you how stupid you are for starting it.

Judging by your attitude, the reason I wont play your game is that in your third post you talk about being customer focused, unlike Simu. However, the first time someone says something that you disagree with, you get an attitude with them. I think this reflects on your ability to deal with customers, as many times customers will be rude to you. They will tell you things that you will not agree with and if that is the kinds of responses you give, good fucking luck.

edit - changed first to third

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Alfster]

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Alfster
I'm one of those people that doesn't give a shit what people say, if I think I'll enjoy it then I'll do it. I however, when asking advice do not insult anyones point of view, regardless of what they tell me. I could give a shit less if it's profitable for you or not. In fact, I hope you make millions on your investment and come back here and rub it in everyones face that told you how stupid you are for starting it.

Judging by your attitude, the reason I wont play your game is that in your third post you talk about being customer focused, unlike Simu. However, the first time someone says something that you disagree with, you get an attitude with them. I think this reflects on your ability to deal with customers, as many times customers will be rude to you. They will tell you things that you will not agree with and if that is the kinds of responses you give, good fucking luck.

edit - changed first to third

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Alfster]

LOL! Yep, really don't want people that don't give a shit and only look for fights.

[Stunseed]

I'd like to see sub-classification based off of training. Allow anyone to learn anything, and utilize a sliding scale for points per rank/skill etc.

Not to harp on my situation, but my biggest gripe is Rangers who simply 616 their way through life. If you want to do that fine, be a Geomancer or something equally beef wellington.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Oh ya, I think customer service is important. But you don't have to put up with a-holes. Someone calls, says, You should close your doors! You can't make a profit. Be nice? All they would hear is click. Now you get the person, who defends the person you hung up on. OMG! I am not going to play your game now! Which they wouldn't have in the first place. You should kiss their ass? Hell no. But it seems, I am suppose to stroke every person that comes along to have good CS.

GET REAL!

If you are going to play, you will play. Now those people I want to retain. I'll go out of my way to make them happy. But I am not going to stroke someone that isn't going to play, someone that says don't even try and make it. Tells me to quit before I start. Then get mad when I say, I am not going to quit......ROFL.. Yep bad CS. Not kissing someones ass that will not play in the first place....

I am gong to sleep on this. Wake up. Laugh again...LOL

God, you must be drunk. Go to bed, reread the posts, then try and figure out a way that makes you look..... It's going to be hard, very hard.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Stunseed
I'd like to see sub-classification based off of training. Allow anyone to learn anything, and utilize a sliding scale for points per rank/skill etc.

Not to harp on my situation, but my biggest gripe is Rangers who simply 616 their way through life. If you want to do that fine, be a Geomancer or something equally beef wellington.

I like that. Thanks. Main class, then have subclasses that can be acheived with training. Makes it, not so cookie cutter. You can be unique.... Will take lots of thought. If you come up with more on this let me know.

[Miss X]

Good luck with it all.

To be honest, Gemstone has pretty much everything I like in a text based game. I'd like guild skills for all professions though, that is something that bothers me.

In terms of customer service.... I've rarely found a game where the CS was as good as it is in Gemstone. Sure, there might be some people that aren't as well liked by the masses but the staff care very much for the game and put a hell of a lot of hours into it as well as having jobs/lives. I really don't have anything bad to say about the CS in Gemstone. I'd complain about a certain host, but fortunatly he is no longer with is.

[HarmNone]

Personally, I think it's up to the individual where, and how, they wish to spend their money. If someone wants to create a text-based game in today's gaming world, and doesn't expect to make money on the deal, more power to them. Creativity, to me, is never a bad thing and is to be encouraged.

Hopefully, the developers will find someone versed in customer service (I always call it critter handling ;) ) to take over that part of the enterprise. It's rare that coders and died-in-the-wool gamers are, also, people people. In fact, they usually suck at it; although, there are a very few exceptions.

I look at this as a chance to be creative, and to come up with things that you'd like to see, have seen, have never seen and thought would be cool. I think it's kinda neat that we all have the opportunity to give our input, whether we believe a text-based game will work in this day and age, or not. It's still a chance to brain-storm ideas. What's wrong with just doing that?

[Stunseed]

< Will take lots of thought. >

Not really. Take your 8, 10, 12, however many base profession your game will have, and sub-divide by attributes.

For example :
A Ranger who trains in animal control would be a Beast Master.
A Ranger who utilizes the earth to power him would be a Geomancer.

A Bard who relies on physical abilities would be a Skald, or a Troubrador.
A Bard who relies purely on their songs would be a Songsmith, or a Weaver.

Or something like that.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Will take lots of thought. >

Not really. Take your 8, 10, 12, however many base profession your game will have, and sub-divide by attributes.

For example :
A Ranger who trains in animal control would be a Beast Master.
A Ranger who utilizes the earth to power him would be a Geomancer.

A Bard who relies on physical abilities would be a Skald, or a Troubrador.
A Bard who relies purely on their songs would be a Songsmith, or a Weaver.

Or something like that.

I agree with these thoughts, Stunseed. They're part of my thoughts on game design, as well. To implement them properly will, however, take careful planning to be sure nothing is missed and that a place is provided for everyone, no matter what they're looking for in a game. That can be a tricky process, but I do believe it can definitely be done.

[HarmNone]

Another think I think causes a lot of problem is the issue of "balance". What exactly does one balance? Is the world, now or in medieval times, balanced? Does one balance creatures, or characters...both? I've seen a lot of hair-pulling over efforts at "balance", and have seen plenty of poorly constructed ways of dealing with it.

[Wezas]

After your initial post I was thinking and had a few ideas/suggestions for your MUD.

But after reading your response to the three people that were just giving their input about profit, I'm disgusted by your response. The only response needed was "Thanks for your input guys, but money is not an issue, I'm not looking to get rich or even cover expenses with this project. It's more for my own enjoyment".

As for your customer service skills, I think they could use a bit of brushing up before you think about actually using them.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I'd agree, Wezas. That's why I suggested getting someone skilled in that area to handle that part of it. This poster doesn't have that type of personality, obviously. Doesn't make him/her a bad person or a good person, just one for whom customer service isn't the right place.

I still think it would be fun to discuss everyone's ideas for a game; what they'd like to see and what they'd hate. This thread, to me, is a perfect opportunity for an exercise in creativity. Why not just use it as such?

[ElanthianSiren]

I have some personal questions to ask you. Please don't take them wrong. Well, really one.

What is your college background, if any?

What is your coder's college background, if any?

You can't just make a game and say, "Hey come play my game! It's NOT gs!!!" (UL anyone?).

If it is just you two administrating a game, those are important questions to guage what kind of unique systems you can give your game in a reasonable time frame. If you have to look up the logistics of any system you plan to build because you have no education in that area, it is obviously going to take longer and slow down your development team.

-M

[HarmNone]

I was waiting for you to chime in here, ES. I know you've got some experience in this area and your knowledge will be invaluable to someone trying to start something new. Everybody's entitled to chase a dream, but the more input they can get the more able they will be to see their dream become a reality rather than a disappointment. :)

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I was waiting for you to chime in here, ES. I know you've got some experience in this area and your knowledge will be invaluable to someone trying to start something new. Everybody's entitled to chase a dream, but the more input they can get the more able they will be to see their dream become a reality rather than a disappointment. :)

Fear not, good Lady HarmNone, the cavalry hath arriv-ed :P

On a serious note: happy to help as much as I'm able.

-M

edited to add: if I was building a game from scratch, I would visit the forums of comparable competition and view their gripes section (we have a gripes section here). Then, I would look at the majority of complaints and note them (not the OMG Emislity sucks, but you are looking for mechanics and immersion issues).

Then I would visit the gems section of such games and note what most people found touching in games they play. I think you did the right thing coming here and asking players what they wanted, though you must remember that every person is a potential customer. If your game will be based in customer service, as coders often do not practice customer service, that leaves you, and obviously, people were dissatisfied with your response.

[Edited on Sat, September th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[HarmNone]

Heh. Yeah. Looking at things said on these boards, both pro and con, as well as interactions and the reactions to those interactions can give you a wealth of information to go on.

Also, you really have to consider the picture you present to your, hopefully, future clients. If you piss 'em off before you get started, you've sorta shot yourself in the foot. You're going to get negative comments, and that's always tough when your eyes are full of your dreams. Yet, you have to take them for what they're worth and move on without taking any of it personally.

You're actually getting some pretty good input here. Some of it might not be what you want to hear, but it bears the sting of truth. It's just not easy to start a text-based game these days. Hell, it's not easy to start any game with the giants like Sony as competition.

[Kainen]

I would like to see the ability to do more than just hunt in game with spells and skills.. GS has a lot of stuff like that for guild skills and crafting. I would like to see that expanded to herbalism, scroll & potion making, forging armor.. that sort of stuff.

I hope you fail.

Anyway, Gemstone has what you won't get.. Gemstone's player base.

Be an asshole to me? Go ahead, but I'll be one right back.

Waste of cash.

- Arkans

[Shalla]

I wish there is a way to gain experience pass cap. After mastering your own profession, you'll be able to train in other profession's skills or spells, if only on a minor level.

or to be a goddess, or a deity have your own cult. :bleh:

I should start my own cult in gs. :P

[Drew]

Originally posted by Kainen
I would like to see the ability to do more than just hunt in game with spells and skills.. GS has a lot of stuff like that for guild skills and crafting. I would like to see that expanded to herbalism, scroll & potion making, forging armor.. that sort of stuff.


The problem with this is that is generally really easy to script, so people end up not hunting at all and just scripting up levels.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance
Just by your attitude you're probably not going to get the kinds of responses you want.

Oh well, doesn't bother me any...It's not like I'll play the game anyway.

So you like people that tell you to quit before you start? Yep, you do. Because you took their advice.

Oh ya, I am going to not play your game because they said it's not profitable! And you got a bad attitude for saying you are going to still make it!

Oh ya, you are going to enjoy doing it anyways. I certainly not going to play your game!

Yep, another worthless post. [/quote]

Judging you from your posts on this one thread.. and saying that customer service sucks with Simu.. I'll assume that you will have zero input into the Customer Service of the game you are developing? I'll also assume you will not have any means of communicating to your potential clients. Finally, I'll assume that once you get this CS department up and running, that you will have zero contact with them.. since someone like you would certainly bring out the worst in them.

Yea.. I see this company getting off the ground. Yup... sure do.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I have some personal questions to ask you. Please don't take them wrong. Well, really one.

What is your college background, if any?

What is your coder's college background, if any?

You can't just make a game and say, "Hey come play my game! It's NOT gs!!!" (UL anyone?).

If it is just you two administrating a game, those are important questions to guage what kind of unique systems you can give your game in a reasonable time frame. If you have to look up the logistics of any system you plan to build because you have no education in that area, it is obviously going to take longer and slow down your development team.

-M

No college. The coder has worked for another online game and wrote their FE and did other duties for them. We both have been out of Gemstone for over 2 years.

We missed the older Gemstone style. Never found any other games that kept out attention like Gemstone did back in III.

We are also getting advice from someone that has coded a engine from scratch. But all feedback is appreciated.

I never said this game is going to based on CS or Numbers. I told you what I hated the most and liked the most about Gemstone. That's it. This game isn't going to be ready tomorrow, maybe a year down the road.

What the plan is to get the engine done. Then, find some people to help design rooms, creatures...etc. But after the engine is done.

What I would like to see, is a system where you are not stuck in one profession. I know, people get bored and want to try something else. But in Gemstone and most games I have seen. You have to make a completely different character. But yet, you spent all this time establishing this characters life, friends, family in the game. So I think taking a penalty for changing to another profession would be worth it.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Kainen
I would like to see the ability to do more than just hunt in game with spells and skills.. GS has a lot of stuff like that for guild skills and crafting. I would like to see that expanded to herbalism, scroll & potion making, forging armor.. that sort of stuff.

I would like to see experience gained without the need to hunt. I know, I love crafting in other games. I like the fact empaths can sit around, chat, and help people. All the while gaining experience. But if you are a fighter, killing monsters should be your main way of advancing.

[ElanthianSiren]

Allright,

here would be my gameplan:

Again, scope out what folks want on the forums. You don't have to ask directly, just take a consensus and figure out what appeals to you.

Next, start drawing up a systems map. What systems do you need bare minimum? (It's harder than it sounds). Don't forget verbs.

Since you have limited college experience, I'd recommend not basing your game on RL systems, (like physics, chemistry etc), as you'll end up getting bogged down researching.

Your coder is going to be busy coding what you tell him you need and is going to be of little help if you wanted to do things involving advanced mathematics. Respect and love the coders. They are awesome. I'd recommend steering clear of modelled systems for this reason.

This means that you're basically looking to construct a medieval text based game that relies on sensory perception and immersion. Look to eliminate any element that would take from the immersion of your game.

Think of any experience you had gaming that reminded you that you were a player and eliminate it (again, it sounds easier than it is). Good luck.

-M

[HarmNone]

ES has made some really solid points. There's a lot that goes into the creation of a world, and that's what a role-playing game is, MUD, MOO, MUSH, or whatever. It's a world. You have to figure out the species that populate the world and how they interact. If it's a medieval world, is it also magical? The two aren't necessarily joined at the hip. If it's magical, can any species draw on that magic, or can only a few? Where does the magic come from? The questions go on and on.

I agree with you that there should be ways of gaining experience that don't involve hunting, so your population should be varied enough that there's something for every type of player, including those who play for the social side of things.

Lots to do and lots to think about while your coder is working on the engine. Also, lots to research even if you keep it pretty simple. There's still a lot to learn about. :)

[HarmNone]

When you get ready to start building, you've gotta lasso Ilvane. I hear she's got the magic! :up:

[Kriterian]

I'd like to see the following:

- A skill based system. Let the players define their character and not some pre-molded professions/classes. The only problem with this method is balance between all skills, otherwise people will figure out that a hiding, fire casting, locksmith, healer is the ultimate class.

- Self policing and GM watchers. Possibly even enforced role-playing if you can afford a staff to watch over every thing. Some one starts babbling ooc they get NPC carted off to the insane asylum.

- It probably takes the fun out of alters being rare but I wish they were more easily available. Maybe as quest rewards or treasure loot. It's hard to make certain characters when you can't look the part. Not sure how to do this one though, and you'd have to have some sort of fashion police to prevent some of the bad alters.

- Names. Bad names die. Simple and easy. That previous suggestion about looking at the gripes section is a good one.

- PVP is a tough issue. You don't want to alienate either side so you have to come up with a decent system but make it somehow optional <shrug>

-

[Electrawn]

The guys at Valve hired a professional writer to script the game half-life. Rather than "throw a bunch of levels" like the guys at ID do.

In relation to GS, GS's heyday seems to be the relationship to ICE. If you needed a game direction to take, you just had to look up a rolemaster book. Ever since the ICE breakup, GS direction seems to be extremely lacking and inconsistent.

Diablo introduced the item generation style of prefixes and endings to items that made a lot of "unique" items unnecessary. This saves time from the demanding alter-whores.

5 full time coders can produce better stuff than an army of part-time coding monkeys.

Propreitary systems are weak. Why rewrite what has already been written for you?

And if you are working with dave of former seventh sun fame, I'd join in a heartbeat.

[Tsunami]

Make sure anything they need to download to play is FREE! I hate it when a game will only play with something I have to pay for like Z-Mud. The dragon(sonething) front end that simu uses (wizard front end) is free to use by anyone. It is not owned by simu.

Text base games rule, don't listen to the WoW zombies :bleh:

Realize there will always be pricks who complain.

Get a GOOD programmer who knows what they are doing and what to expect.

Listen to your staff. Nothing is more annoying than a boss who thinks they know it all.

A lot of people are NOT numbers people <raises her hand>. Offer services that will role a viable character FOR you, for whatever type you might want. Maybe a series of questions to determine what kind of rogue/wizard/etc. to base the stats on, and then recommend a training pattern. Some people have limited time, and this is a good feature for them as well, just roll and go play, no fuss no muss.

Um, thats it for now :)

(Do I sound like I've worked for a text based game before!?) :P

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Allright,

here would be my gameplan:

Again, scope out what folks want on the forums. You don't have to ask directly, just take a consensus and figure out what appeals to you.

Next, start drawing up a systems map. What systems do you need bare minimum? (It's harder than it sounds). Don't forget verbs.

Since you have limited college experience, I'd recommend not basing your game on RL systems, (like physics, chemistry etc), as you'll end up getting bogged down researching.

Your coder is going to be busy coding what you tell him you need and is going to be of little help if you wanted to do things involving advanced mathematics. Respect and love the coders. They are awesome. I'd recommend steering clear of modelled systems for this reason.

This means that you're basically looking to construct a medieval text based game that relies on sensory perception and immersion. Look to eliminate any element that would take from the immersion of your game.

Think of any experience you had gaming that reminded you that you were a player and eliminate it (again, it sounds easier than it is). Good luck.

-M

I know what didn't like in certains games. Some games try to hard and describe everything. Smells, sounds...etc. That's taking away from your imagination, which I think is the most important part.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Right now, I am just trying to get as much input as possible. Then I will try to organize it.

Family member is a retired English teacher, that just finished write a novel(Still waiting for a copy to read). She is going to help write some of the history of the game.

So much to think about :P

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by HarmNone
When you get ready to start building, you've gotta lasso Ilvane. I hear she's got the magic! :up:

Sweet!

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance

I would like to see experience gained without the need to hunt. I know, I love crafting in other games. I like the fact empaths can sit around, chat, and help people. All the while gaining experience. But if you are a fighter, killing monsters should be your main way of advancing.

I once played a game that didn't have healers at all nor did they have clerics. Healing occured in empath tents of a sort (very much like the NPC healers in Gemstone.) I liked it.

Death put you in a purgatory where you had to perform puzzles to get back to your body.

:shrug:

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Kriterian
I'd like to see the following:

- A skill based system. Let the players define their character and not some pre-molded professions/classes. The only problem with this method is balance between all skills, otherwise people will figure out that a hiding, fire casting, locksmith, healer is the ultimate class.

- Self policing and GM watchers. Possibly even enforced role-playing if you can afford a staff to watch over every thing. Some one starts babbling ooc they get NPC carted off to the insane asylum.

- It probably takes the fun out of alters being rare but I wish they were more easily available. Maybe as quest rewards or treasure loot. It's hard to make certain characters when you can't look the part. Not sure how to do this one though, and you'd have to have some sort of fashion police to prevent some of the bad alters.

- Names. Bad names die. Simple and easy. That previous suggestion about looking at the gripes section is a good one.

- PVP is a tough issue. You don't want to alienate either side so you have to come up with a decent system but make it somehow optional <shrug>

-

I like the skilled based system suggestion. But I also love titles, when you acheive certain proficity.

There will be GMs. Some one starts babbling ooc they get NPC carted off to the insane asylum. YES! Love that suggestion. Scams will not ne tolerated. Someone gets reported a bunch of times, someone will be watching them.

Now what do you think of warnings? Gemstone they stay with you for life of the account. Think warnings and suspensions should come off your record after 6 months?

I want quests. Lots of quests, that are NOT required to do. You do them because you want to enjoy them.

Names, yes, they need to be appropriate.

PvP. This one I think is going to be so much fun. You can join a house/faction. You join them at your own risk. You can wage wars on other factions, which is consenting to PvP. Have some official declaration of war. Then it would highlighte the other faction members, so you know when the fight is on. This has the potential of being the most fun.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by PeaceDisturbance

I would like to see experience gained without the need to hunt. I know, I love crafting in other games. I like the fact empaths can sit around, chat, and help people. All the while gaining experience. But if you are a fighter, killing monsters should be your main way of advancing.

I once played a game that didn't have healers at all nor did they have clerics. Healing occured in empath tents of a sort (very much like the NPC healers in Gemstone.) I liked it.

Death put you in a purgatory where you had to perform puzzles to get back to your body.

:shrug:

But the empaths and clerics really helped make Gemstone about RPering I thought. If you wanted to be rescued, you needed to develop a relationship with the local cleric or empath.

I also liked small isolated communities. River Rest was my favorite. Also enjoyed Pinefar(?). God, its been that long...heh

[Artha]

But the empaths and clerics really helped make Gemstone about RPering I thought. If you wanted to be rescued, you needed to develop a relationship with the local cleric or empath.

Now a days, the relationship is basically waiting for some fogbot to fog to you and bring you back to Voln/Town, where their other account (an empath or cleric, depending) will come heal/raise you.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Electrawn
The guys at Valve hired a professional writer to script the game half-life. Rather than "throw a bunch of levels" like the guys at ID do.

In relation to GS, GS's heyday seems to be the relationship to ICE. If you needed a game direction to take, you just had to look up a rolemaster book. Ever since the ICE breakup, GS direction seems to be extremely lacking and inconsistent.

Diablo introduced the item generation style of prefixes and endings to items that made a lot of "unique" items unnecessary. This saves time from the demanding alter-whores.

5 full time coders can produce better stuff than an army of part-time coding monkeys.

Propreitary systems are weak. Why rewrite what has already been written for you?

And if you are working with dave of former seventh sun fame, I'd join in a heartbeat.

I want to have some type of crafting. I liked diablos prefixes. I still play diablo2, into the new ladder season.

I wasn't around for ICE, but I started about a year after that. Then, the GS4 announcement broke my heart. I didn't want to lose levels, so I quit.

I would love for this to able to pay fulltime coders a decent wage. But at the beginning, this is going to be free to everyone.

Amazing thing is, really not that expensive to start a text based game. If anyone has suggestions about servers, feel free to tell me.

As for me getting upset over being told to quit before I start. I am sorry. Just reminded me of my father over the years. Always told me to stop, before I started something....

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Artha

But the empaths and clerics really helped make Gemstone about RPering I thought. If you wanted to be rescued, you needed to develop a relationship with the local cleric or empath.

Now a days, the relationship is basically waiting for some fogbot to fog to you and bring you back to Voln/Town, where their other account (an empath or cleric, depending) will come heal/raise you.

They actually got scripts to do this now? Or you just saying they are just multi-accounting? Also, how does everyone feel about Multi-accounting? Is it ok if they RP it? I have no clue, how you would prevent this. I honestly did it. But, Gemstone was so dependent on spells. You had to either buy a spellup or own your own wizard.

But I did like the party only spells, like bard songs.

Got to put some thought into this. Do I want party only spells? Or can you stack spells like they do in Gemstone?

I think this is a balance issue. People should be able to solo the monster below them. But to hunt above, they need a party.

I am making a huge list of questions.. :)

[Artha]

They actually got scripts to do this now?
There are third party SEs that allow it to be done, but I think most of them just sit around and locate/fog everyone that dies.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Artha

They actually got scripts to do this now?
There are third party SEs that allow it to be done, but I think most of them just sit around and locate/fog everyone that dies.

Hrm, I don't have a answer for this. Do you? Can you punish someone for not RPing? I can understand being OOC. Any thoughts?

[Artha]

Don't have raising or healing give exp, that'd solve it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Call me crazy, is PD the idiot formerly known as Warclaidhm?

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Call me crazy, is PD the idiot formerly known as Warclaidhm?

Nope. But thanks for calling me a idiot.

[Artha]

This is not about getting rich again.
Jury says they're different people.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Damn, fouled by the again/agian dead give-away :(

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Damn, fouled by the again/agian dead give-away :(

?

[ElanthianSiren]

You still have not answered really what will make your game different than GS, systemically.

MAing will generate you revenue, but like GS proves, it also generates balance issues that no reworking of systems can really get around. This is up to you to decide. As you say this isn't about money, I'd lean toward not allowing MAing.

-M

[Jolena]

Okay well personally, I would rather see professions not be so boxed in. Here's what I mean in an example:

A ranger would have access to a specific Ranger circle, BUT (and here's the real thing I wish GS had) they would also have the option as every other character does to learn every other skill out there.

A wizard would have access to a specific Wizard circle, but again have the option to train in every other skill out there.

Basically this would give you a base to start your character out with depending on how they want to be RP'd and restrict others from learning your specific profession's spell circle, but in the same instance let you train in any other thing you wished to to define your character. GS doesn't allow you that. There are more then just profession named circles that we can't learn, such as certain spirit circles or elemental circles. And I realize that we can learn in other physical skills just for a higher cost, but I don't see why a Ranger can't be a elementalist or why a Wizard shouldn't be able to be a spiritualist. :shrug:

As to the other things, more alternate ways to gain experience. I'm way excited at the things coming out for alt. experience as it's something we should be allowed to do. Noone wants to just pick boxes, hunt, heal or raise for experience if they don't have to. It should be a choice. Also, make the experience *worth* it. I know plenty of characters who's RP is not to hunt and they would love to have the ability to do other things for meaningful amounts of exp.

Don't let money lead the way. I can't say this enough. I realize that you will be a business, but just because someone pays you 40 bucks a month doesn't mean they should be let roam around the game, killing folks for no reason other then to be an asshole, breaking rules and being a general pest. It irks me to no end how many assholes are left to play simply because they pay for the subscription.

I'm sure I'll come up with other things later.

[Drew]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
MAing will generate you revenue, but like GS proves, it also generates balance issues that no reworking of systems can really get around.



Well, you could get rid of it, make all spells self cast and remove bind and you'd be a long way towards making MAing less attractive. Sure they could still prone or stun something but that's not as powerful as big spell ups and bind.

[Jazuela]

Are you shooting for a roleplay-allowed, roleplay-encouraged, roleplay-enforced, or a true RPI? What I'd want to see in a new game might differ vastly from what most people would want to see. What some other people want to see would be vastly different from what the majority wants to see.

What kinds of players will you want to attract most? Those are the people whose opinions you probably need to hear.

It sounds like you want a hack-n-slash where roleplay is encouraged. It's important to remember that "talking ooc" isn't the -only- thing that constitutes "lack of roleplay." Anyone can do this:

(player thinks) Okay this chick is a newbie and she's annoying me.
Character tells Newbie, "Come with me, fair maiden, and I shall help you find the best weapon to fit your delicate hand."

(Player leads Newbie to the slums of town where Newbie is then killed by a thug NPC)

That isn't roleplaying. It's OOC behavior, delivered with a roleplayed facade.

Is that a thing you want to avoid, or is it something you have no problem with?

I really think - that rather than asking people what they want from your new game, you should ask yourself what you want from your new game. And then start creating it.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
You still have not answered really what will make your game different than GS, systemically.

MAing will generate you revenue, but like GS proves, it also generates balance issues that no reworking of systems can really get around. This is up to you to decide. As you say this isn't about money, I'd lean toward not allowing MAing.

-M

But if the game is for free. MAing will be easier. Also, how can you prove they are MAing? Just because the act like zombies? I see lots of people that ignor most of the population. Remember Malok? He ignored everyone. He just enjoyed playing the game by himself. So once again. How can you stop that part of a game?

Maing is going to be part of games, text or graphic. I truely don't see how you can stop that. Banning people that you THINK are MAing, is not a solution. But not giving experience to a fogger that helps people, while risking his life. I don't think thats a solution either. That's a rarity. 5% or less of the population. I am against making changes for the minority. If 95% of the clerics do it to help and gain experience. I just can't punish them for 5% or less of the populations abuses. Give the obvious MAers a warning. That is the bst solution in my mind. Unless you can suggest something better.

[Edited on 9-20-2005 by PeaceDisturbance]

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Jolena
Okay well personally, I would rather see professions not be so boxed in. Here's what I mean in an example:

A ranger would have access to a specific Ranger circle, BUT (and here's the real thing I wish GS had) they would also have the option as every other character does to learn every other skill out there.

A wizard would have access to a specific Wizard circle, but again have the option to train in every other skill out there.

Basically this would give you a base to start your character out with depending on how they want to be RP'd and restrict others from learning your specific profession's spell circle, but in the same instance let you train in any other thing you wished to to define your character. GS doesn't allow you that. There are more then just profession named circles that we can't learn, such as certain spirit circles or elemental circles. And I realize that we can learn in other physical skills just for a higher cost, but I don't see why a Ranger can't be a elementalist or why a Wizard shouldn't be able to be a spiritualist. :shrug:

As to the other things, more alternate ways to gain experience. I'm way excited at the things coming out for alt. experience as it's something we should be allowed to do. Noone wants to just pick boxes, hunt, heal or raise for experience if they don't have to. It should be a choice. Also, make the experience *worth* it. I know plenty of characters who's RP is not to hunt and they would love to have the ability to do other things for meaningful amounts of exp.

Don't let money lead the way. I can't say this enough. I realize that you will be a business, but just because someone pays you 40 bucks a month doesn't mean they should be let roam around the game, killing folks for no reason other then to be an asshole, breaking rules and being a general pest. It irks me to no end how many assholes are left to play simply because they pay for the subscription.

I'm sure I'll come up with other things later.

I agree with all of your suggestions. It will not be a pay for game, for a while. I always thought Gemstone kept upping their prices, for their failed graphics game. But I really don't know.

I am mainly worried about after a year or so. Making enough money to pay the coder a decent wage, and keeping the game above water. Best case. It makes enough to pay several coders a decent wage. Worst case, I got to keep paying all the bills.

Simu has to much coruption with it's employees. Only way they could make any money or bonuses, is to sell items. I don't want that. Also, don't ask me what coruption. Everyone knows which GM sols their accounts for 1000s of dollars over the years.

But, I will have people that want to help out. They will be made happy, most diffently. I will not hide the perks they get either. Everyone will know, what you can get for helping out.

Also, If a GM is outed. How do you handle that? Everyone knows who is who in GS. How do you handle this? I seen hardline stances. Fire them. I don't think that is acceptable.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
MAing will generate you revenue, but like GS proves, it also generates balance issues that no reworking of systems can really get around.


One solution, which I think would work. But also hurts trying to get people to RP. But, I like this suggestion, if we can apply it, without hurting RP.


Well, you could get rid of it, make all spells self cast and remove bind and you'd be a long way towards making MAing less attractive. Sure they could still prone or stun something but that's not as powerful as big spell ups and bind.

[PeaceDisturbance]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Are you shooting for a roleplay-allowed, roleplay-encouraged, roleplay-enforced, or a true RPI? What I'd want to see in a new game might differ vastly from what most people would want to see. What some other people want to see would be vastly different from what the majority wants to see.

What kinds of players will you want to attract most? Those are the people whose opinions you probably need to hear.

It sounds like you want a hack-n-slash where roleplay is encouraged. It's important to remember that "talking ooc" isn't the -only- thing that constitutes "lack of roleplay." Anyone can do this:

(player thinks) Okay this chick is a newbie and she's annoying me.
Character tells Newbie, "Come with me, fair maiden, and I shall help you find the best weapon to fit your delicate hand."

(Player leads Newbie to the slums of town where Newbie is then killed by a thug NPC)

That isn't roleplaying. It's OOC behavior, delivered with a roleplayed facade.

Is that a thing you want to avoid, or is it something you have no problem with?

I really think - that rather than asking people what they want from your new game, you should ask yourself what you want from your new game. And then start creating it.

I see what you are saying. I really don't have a answer for you right now. This is an unexpected thing. this is why I am here, asking the people I use to play with, what they would like to see.

But if the majority of the population hates something. Why would I not change it? Seriously. Like breakage in Gemstone. Nobody wants their item, they spent years getting, enchanting, altering, weighted...etc to be worthless one day. I just don't want that. But! If everyone wanted breakage, I would intorduce it.

I always hated how Gemstone lacked this. Customers are going to make this world how THEY want it. If I can get a customer base, that wants RP inforced, then we ill enofroce it.

But I am not going to make changes upon the minorities. This is about the majority, the most poeple being happy. Gemstone really didn't do that.

Convince me. I am actually openminded. Except to, quit before you start. I don't quit.

[StrayRogue]

I cannot even begin to count the amount of text based Muds that start off with good intentions and never make it anywhere. I've been a coder on a good few of them and always get left in the lurch when the owner gets bored with the lack of progress. Look at it this way you're gonna have to put in full time hours for a long time to get anything even remotely stable and playable. I'm talking a year or more. Of full time, for free. Trust me it gets old. Look at UL - it was made by a lot of talented and creative people and it still isn't even half made. In this instance I'm pretty sure YOU don't know what you're willing to undertake. But so be it.