Example of Katrina donations and resources going to the "wrong" people

[Atlanteax]

This article was brought to my attention...

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050914/NEWS01/509140323/-1/KATRINA

This article appeared on the front page of the newspaper today.

Apparently, this 19yrs old mother of 3 (one is 4) is now getting married to the kids' father.

Ostensibly, they're getting married to remedy this...
But their unmarried status makes it difficult trying to cut through the red tape to get the resources they need.

However, the "catch" is that the marriage is being completely "funded" via donations from local business and out-of-staters providing gowns, tuxs, cake, etc.
Another Red Cross volunteer is working to schedule them a honeymoon in Mexico. When one volunteer, originally from New York City, spread the word of the wedding to people in her hometown, many Sept. 11, 2001, survivors in New York decided to show their well wishes by sending wedding gifts to the couple, Brown said.

Here's my dissatisfaction with this whole thing...

Why is it that a 19yrs old mother of 3 (nevermind that she is black, she could had "stopped" with the kids after the first one) who was likely on welfare pre-Katrina
(known tendency to continue to have kids to get better welfare checks, and staying unmarried so that the checks are not reduced)

... getting additional "freebies" so that she can have a wedding (to get Katrina $$) including a honeymoon to Mexico
(talk about unintended positive reinforcement of "bad behavior" ... where she probably thinks she's going to get a free ride for the rest of her life)

... which such donations and efforts should be going towards actual "needs" such as housing and food, rather than something "frivolous" as a wedding

... where it is in my opinion that instead of getting such extravagant donations, she should be getting a slap upside the head instead.

.

It is unfortunate that a portion of the time, manpower, and resources that is intended on being devoted to offsetting the disruption of Katrina...

... is being "wasted" in this manner, rather than going towards who truly needs donations.

[Shari]

Perhaps they should use some of that money to have her knees sewn together. <ducks>

[xtc]

I think you have misrepresented the article.

There is no mention of welfare.

Here are some quotes however. She intended to get married before.

Joseph's initial wedding plans for April were marred by tragedy when her uncle was brutally killed.

She just wanted a simply Justice of the Peace wedding.

But when she announced their plans to go to a justice of the peace, the American Red Cross volunteers wouldn't have it. "I just want it to be special for her; she deserves it," volunteer Kay Brown said.

So Brown and several other volunteers got busy planning the couple's wedding, which will be held Sunday on the front steps of the rotunda at Louisiana State Exhibit Museum and followed by a reception in the Shreveport museum.

The honeymoon was donated by volunteers.

Another Red Cross volunteer is working to schedule them a honeymoon in Mexico. When one volunteer, originally from New York City, spread the word of the wedding to people in her hometown, many Sept. 11, 2001, survivors in New York decided to show their well wishes by sending wedding gifts to the couple, Brown said.


I can understand that she wants to get married especially if it means more help for her family and her children. However I would had a simple JP wedding considering the circumstances.

However the money donated for the cake, gown, tux, manciure and pedicure could have gone to better things.

Ok scrap the above post. I am with Jesae on this, stitch the bitches knees together.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by xtc
However the money donated for the cake, gown, tux, manciure and pedicure could have gone to better things.

Ok scrap the above post. I am with Jesae on this, stitch the bitches knees together.

You forgot the honeymoon to Mexico that is being worked on...

and yes, my whole point is that this kind of effort should go to those more deserving...

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by Jesae
Perhaps they should use some of that money to have her knees sewn together. <ducks>

:clap:

[Warriorbird]

Would you be saying this if they weren't black?

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Would you be saying this if they weren't black?

Yep.

[Warriorbird]

So it's merely elitism, not racism. There wasn't any mention of their being on welfare. All she wanted was to go to a Justice of the Peace.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Apparently, this 19yrs old mother of 3 (one is 4) is now getting married to the kids' father.


Originally posted by xtc
Joseph's initial wedding plans for April were marred by tragedy when her uncle was brutally killed.

She just wanted a simply Justice of the Peace wedding.

So, while the issue of the funds being allocated in a better way is valid, Atl's Fox News slant on the situation is humorous and expected.

Props to xtc for clearing it up.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Wezas
So, while the issue of the funds being allocated in a better way is valid, Atl's Fox News slant on the situation is humorous and expected.

Well... this travesty is scandalous! :shrug:

Originally posted by Warriorbird
So it's merely elitism, not racism. There wasn't any mention of their being on welfare. All she wanted was to go to a Justice of the Peace.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

I think Warriorbird is the racist because anytime someone mentions an ethnic minority, he assumes they are being racist. Mexican!

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I'm guessing that if you are unmarried at 19 with 3 kids, you're fucking up somewhere.

I don't think the efforts should go to someone more "deserving" though. People will donate their time/money where they wish, and I don't think it's my place to tell them which people they have to assist.

Even if your (Atlanteax) premise is correct on all points (which I doubt), it's possible that this show of good will from perfect strangers will motivate her to re-evaluate things.

[Warriorbird]

I think Warriorbird is the racist because anytime someone mentions an ethnic minority, he assumes they are being racist. Mexican!

...and here I thought you weren't going to read my posts.

Originally posted by Warriorbird
...and here I thought you weren't going to read my posts.

Where do you come up with this stuff? I never said I wasn't going to read your posts. Do a SEARCH and find me saying that, and then come back and apologize for being a fucktard. I'll need the apology in triplicate so that I can keep copies for my records.

[Warriorbird]

That was just a test post. Good seeing you're just being a troll.

:)

Originally posted by Warriorbird
That was just a test post. Good seeing you're just being a troll.

:)

Apology accepted.

[ElanthianSiren]

Ridiculous.

:whocares:

The chick is getting married, and if I read correctly, had plans to do so before the hurricane. Who is the father of those three children? Do we know? Is it the man she's marrying? What are their circumstances? Were they living together for years? How can you know?

It is not our place to judge:
1. acts given from the kindness of other people's hearts, as displayed in the quotes here.
2. another person's circumstances without knowing all of the information.

This smacks of the full-frontal display of ignorance in WB's quote.

-M

[ElanthianSiren]

Damnit, WB, how dare you change your quote?!

-M

[Warriorbird]

Lame ass conservative double speak like that always strikes me as pretty silly, to reply to the body of your "message", T+S. It's like, "We feel inadequate because we got called out, therefore we need to somehow attack other people with exactly what they used on us." Atlanteax got the jist of what I was actually attempting to question. He at least has some moral ground to fall back on. Given the remainder of your post, it's clear you're just lashing out because of personal issues with me, T+S. I'm sorry you feel that way. Me, I try to avoid emotional responses to people from Gemstone messageboards.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Warriorbird]

Damnit, WB, how dare you change your quote?!

Ha. I've had like five in three days.

:P

It's back.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

[ElanthianSiren]

Shrub! Shrub! Shrub!


In all seriousness, IMO, the mentality of this, that was the first thing that came to my mind. "They are so much better off." except they've probably lost irreplacable things like friends, loved ones, pets, but yea, all those material things are the most important things in life.

-M

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Lame ass conservative double speak like that always strikes me as pretty silly, to reply to the body of your "message." It's like, "We feel inadequate because we got called out, therefore we need to somehow attack other people with exactly what they used on us." Atlanteax got the jist of what I was actually attempting to question. He at least has some moral ground to fall back on. Given the remainder of your post, it's clear you're just lashing out because of personal issues with me, T+S. I'm sorry you feel that way. Me, I try to avoid emotional responses to people from Gemstone messageboards.

You can dodge out of another debate with lame excuses...it's fine by me. I really could care less about you WB. You continue to outright lie as the basis of your argument. What are these "personal issues" you are referencing again?

Or is this another imaginary scenario that you are using to test if I am trolling after I call you on it?

I pointed out the other side of the coin, and rather than answering, you just call me a troll because you aren't that bright. Not everything is about race, and yet you continue to "play the race card" in nearly every subject that involves any ethnic minority. It's pathetic.

You obviously can't formulate a coherent response, so you resort to callin me a "troll" and inferring that you and I have some kind of long history of personal issues, which is completely false. Grow up and debate like an adult.

[ElanthianSiren]

:heart:

thanks. Now everyone has a frame of reference.


-M

[Warriorbird]

Your a real piece of work, T+S. Just because you've concluded I'm stupid doesn't somehow mean I'm going to bow down in front of you. If anything it makes you more amusing to me. It makes this fun.

I'm not getting how pointing out your technique is a "lame excuse." It's actually pretty standard in formal debate. As for "outright lies" I think your posts speak for themselves.

As for stupidity... what are you doing talking to me? You clearly haven't read what I said regarding race in Katrina. I said I didn't believe that the response was effected by race in the slightest.

When you step out of line to insult me, then backtrack towards halfway agreeing with me, there's clearly some issue you have with me personally.

And now you're trying to act as though you're above it. It's sad, really.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Nieninque]

Wanker.
They didnt say that people are funding this out of money they are giving to victims of the hurricane. It says that volunteers are sorting it out themselves.

There is nothing wrong someone saying "wanna donate to this woman's wedding?"
It would be something worthy of an outcry if they were saying "wanna donate to victims of Katrina" and siphoning the money off for this wedding.

Learn to read, stop being a right wing wanker, get a clue, then post something based on fact rather than your reactionary bullshit.

And to end, a quote from the article you posted to emphasise your nazi shit:

"After all, Yolanda Joseph said, every time she planned to marry Anthony Love, her childhood sweetheart and father of her three children, something would interrupt their plans."

A murder, a hurricane...pretty good reasons for not being married at the times they had planned.

Now fuck off.

Heh, I'll be glad to let the posts speak for themselves. I didn't agree with you, I pointed out that your bringing race up was typical.

Then I gave my personal views as to why I thought that the woman was as "deserving" as anyone else. I then said that even if all of Atlanteax's assumptions, even if they were true, should not (in my opinion) disqualify her from receiving the help that she received. I don't think it's my place to tell anyone where they should direct their charity.

So while I disagree with Atlanteax, I also disagree with your assumption that Atlanteax MUST BE a racist or an elitist because of his opinion.

[Jorddyn]

I have a few thoughts on this.

First, she's obviously made a mistake or three by having so many children so young. However, the conservative in you should be thrilled that she is attempting to better her life by getting married. Additionally, married people are much less likely to need public assistance, so that should make you smile as well.

Second, it's not as if she is responsible for this hurricane anymore than Bush is. I'll bet if you asked her, she'd take not losing everything to the hurricane instead of having this fully funded wedding.



However, the "catch" is that the marriage is being completely "funded" via donations from local business and out-of-staters providing gowns, tuxs, cake, etc.

So, the wedding is being fully funded by people who know exactly what they're giving their money for? I could see the objections if it was the Red Cross paying for the wedding, but that is hardly the case.

Who cares what these people do with their money? And do you honestly believe that they are supplanting their donations to the Red Cross with these? Most likely, these are additional "donations" (read: advertising) and are not taking away from any of the needs of the hurricane victims, and are creating a ton of goodwill.

Jorddyn, and my $0.04 :)

Originally posted by Warriorbird
When you step out of line to insult me, then backtrack towards halfway agreeing with me, there's clearly some issue you have with me personally.

And now you're trying to act as though you're above it. It's sad, really.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

Calling you stupid is not stepping out of line--it's my opinion. What I don't like, is that you just outright lie. First you quote me as saying that I said that I won't read your posts, then say it was a joke when I ask you to point out where I said that, and then you infer that we have a personal history.

Feel free to call me stupid, that doesn't clutter up the debate. I just get tired of you fabricating things to support your argument.

[Warriorbird]

So while I disagree with Atlanteax, I also disagree with your assumption that Atlanteax MUST BE a racist or an elitist because of his opinion.
-T+S

And I didn't say that in the slightest. I said it was "elitism". Not that he MUST be a racist or an elitist. Believe it or not, someone can take an action and it doesn't define them as something forever in my mind. This is clearly a difference between me and you.

If anything, I'd say I've played the "race card" less than possible. Gosh gee, believe it or not, sometimes a belief colors someone's responses here. I've had racist thoughts before. I'm sure you have too. This isn't the perfect "level playing field" world that some folks make it out to be.

[Warriorbird]

Feel free to call me stupid, that doesn't clutter up the debate.

Seems to be your favorite tactic. I tend to hold myself above that. You can, at the least, use a computer. As for "outright lying" I've seen plenty of that from you before. You also like to disregard what I've actually posted, which amounts to pretty much the same thing.

[xtc]

Please guys give the bickering a rest.

The way I read it either is possible.

She could be a regular nice person with a job who wanted a JP wedding and there were real events that stopped her from getting married...


or....


She could be a welfare bum that didn't get married to suck more to welfare from the system. Evidence to support this theory, she has three kids with this man. Lots of time to get married. One of her kids is 4 years old.

The article claims that volunteers insisted she get a better wedding but it is the to be bride that is calling these shops to get free stuff for her wedding.

""She called and asked me and could you have said no?" said Gerry Shephard, owner of A Yellow Ribbon, who donated the wedding gown to Joseph."

[Warriorbird]

Interesting. With that said, it could be either way.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by xtc
""She called and asked me and could you have said no?" said Gerry Shephard, owner of A Yellow Ribbon, who donated the wedding gown to Joseph."

I read it differently. See the earlier paragraphs ...

"I just want it to be special for her; she deserves it," volunteer Kay Brown said.

So Brown and several other volunteers got busy planning the couple's wedding...

For Brown, that means putting a wedding together in six days. "I helped plan my daughter's wedding, but I've never put a wedding together in six days," she said while taking a break between the many phone calls she's been making all week to prepare for Joseph's wedding day.

Obviously, it is crappy writing, and could be taken either way. I lean towards Ms. Brown making the phone call.



Jorddyn

[Warriorbird]

That was my initial read. No arguing that it is badly written, however.

Originally posted by Warriorbird
[quote] As for "outright lying" I've seen plenty of that from you before. You also like to disregard what I've actually posted, which amounts to pretty much the same thing.

I pointed out your lies. You make vague references to fictional events. Just like the 1st page of this thread, I'm sure that if I asked you to paste a quote of my outright lying, you'd try to cover up and pretend you were testing to see if I'm trolling.

Regardless of that, it's people like you that make some folks roll their eyes when they hear a cry of racism. You shouldn't see a black person, and immediately look to cry racism. With you around, it's not safe to disagree with Tijay about the price of tea in China.

What WarriorBird will be able to comprehend from the above post: "Tea and Strumpets hates black people, and I suspect he has something against the Chinese."

[Warriorbird]

Hmm. So you didn't bring something up that I'd clearly said wasn't true in a thread months later? Give it a rest. Go home or something. I only like obsession from women. Curiously, I didn't make a single comment that involved (word removed to keep from making a comment) or (second word removed).

:winks:

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Warriorbird]

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc
The article claims that volunteers insisted she get a better wedding but it is the to be bride that is calling these shops to get free stuff for her wedding.
Any soon to be bride in her situation regardless of color would probably do the same thing, without a second thougth.

Ignorance or as ES put it, ridiculous.

And no xtc, I am definitely not referring to you.