2nd best set of plate armor in the lands

[bubbauno]

Since the best set is now sold, i'm still gonna sell the second best set..

some ancient vaalin studded battle-armor - The ancient armor is studded with pure vaalin forged by a master metalsmith. Protruding from the edges of the full plate is a layer of soft dark leather designed to cushion the wearer from the blows of battle. Dark burnished vaalor clasps fasten the armor in place. Etched into the front is a crimson red elliptical sigil, inlaid with arcane runes of red and onyx extending out from the edge in a vein-like fashion. You also notice a small enchanter's glyph.

6x masterful crit padded full plate.
Lightened down to only 20 lbs.
Standard breakage.

Anyone interested contact me at bubbauno@aol.com or at bubbauno on AIM.

Thanks,
Tsin

[Edited on 9-20-2005 by bubbauno]

[Axhinde]

And here I am thinking the red armor was the best.

[bubbauno]

It used to be.. but sadly not anymore.

[Axhinde]

Eesh, what happened to it?

[bubbauno]

Damage padding isn't worth even half what crit padding is worth now, that's what happened.

[Skirmisher]

Even regarding plate?

[Wezas]

12 lbs & 20 lbs.

Jesus.

[Aaysia]

someone by the 5x one for meeeee. 12 lbs *purr*

I'm going to add this to my second most wanted gs item that I'll probably never have :no:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by bubbauno
Damage padding isn't worth even half what crit padding is worth now, that's what happened. Are you basing this on a market analysis or a mechanics analysis?

[reginrok]

Mechanics wise, damage padding and crit padding have changed the same amount. Damage padding and crit padding are both random, as well as damage/crit weighting.

[Gigantuous]

Originally posted by Aaysia
someone by the 5x one for meeeee. 12 lbs *purr*

I'm going to add this to my second most wanted gs item that I'll probably never have :no:

Noooo....you buy it for me.

[Chaddy]

:moon2:

[bubbauno]

That better be a chick's ass

[Drew]

Crit padding in plate is worth it in invasions or if you are getting ridiculously high endrolls on you. If you had some level 20 character and wanted to be almost impossible to kill with a sword that plate would be the ticket. If you are getting hit by endrolls under +300, damage padding is superior.

[Sylph]

Drew -- I think a heavy reduxed person will still benefit from Damage padding more than crit padding.

You aren't getting critted by swords. Everyone dies to manuvers sometimes regardless of how much crit padding your armor may or may not have.

[bubbauno]

Wrong.. In the barrier crit padding is essential for maneuvers and anything under exceptional you will die.

[mgoddess]

Originally posted by bubbauno
2. some ancient vaalin studded battle-armor - The ancient armor is studded with pure vaalin forged by a master metalsmith. Protruding from the edges of the full plate is a layer of soft dark leather designed to cushion the wearer from the blows of battle. Dark burnished vaalor clasps fasten the armor in place. Etched into the front is a crimson red elliptical sigil, inlaid with arcane runes of red and onyx extending out from the edge in a vein-like fashion. You also notice a small enchanter's glyph.

6x masterful crit padded full plate.
Lightened down to only 20 lbs.
Standard breakage.


Is that spiked as well as the padding?!

How much (man, I'm scared to know) you asking?

[Fallen]

Wrong.. In the barrier crit padding is essential for maneuvers and anything under exceptional you will die. >>

You have to have Exceptional before you cannot be outright crit killed anymore? Weak.

[Gigantuous]

I dunno...I saw some 7x exceptionally damage padded full plate for sale...not sure on the weight, but I sure wouldn't mind having it.

Of course...I want all the really nice armors I see, so that's not saying much at all.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Fallen
You have to have Exceptional before you cannot be outright crit killed anymore? Weak. It's impossible to crit-kill-proof plate armor, even if maneuvers don't take armor group into account.

Originally posted by bubbauno
Wrong.. In the barrier crit padding is essential for maneuvers and anything under exceptional you will die.

LOL. You are such an idiot. You do not need exceptional crit padding to hunt the barrier UNLESS you are playing with a bought character that can't hunt without bought wizard on his hip.

Seriously, your statement is a steaming pile of bullshit that is completely unrelated to facts.

[Danical]

With the move to GS4 - TRUNC[conbouns/4] essentially gives you crit padding just as TRUNC[dexbonus/4] gives you crit weighting on melee strikes.

Dwarf Paladin with Vigor and maybe CON booster . . . You get the point.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by bubbauno
Wrong.. In the barrier crit padding is essential for maneuvers and anything under exceptional you will die.

False. I've survive maneuvers on a regular basis in 4x mbp, non padded.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm afraid to pick to carry boxes beyond the barrier.. I always get WTFPWNED by manuevers no matter HOW much crit protection there is.

[Warriorbird]

Damage padding is now random. Crit padding is not. What you're seeing randomize is not relative to armor.

So yeah, crit padding is worth a hell of a lot more (despite the innacuracy of the Barrier hunting statements).

[Latrinsorm]

I've heard that crit padding is randomized on a scale of x to x/2, while damage padding is randomized on a scale of x to 1.

Frankly, I don't think any padding (random or no) has enough of an impact to justify the cost, so I've never looked into it too carefully.

[Warriorbird]

Crit padding isn't. The Dex/Con effects are.

[Danical]

Crit padding is random just as crit weighting is and it works on the same scale sliding scale. I've got plenty of data points to prove it.

Just as an aside - damage padding/weighting actually ranges from 0 to X. Or at least a shot with a damage weighted weapon returned only 1 damage. Draw your own conclusions.

[Danical]

Oh, and the dex/con things aren't random, they are static as many many shots seem to demonstrate.

[Sylph]

Crit padding is definately randomised but I didn't know about that Con bonus thingy! <3

[Warriorbird]

Believe what you want.

:chuckles:

[Janarth]

First I heard about the con and dex bonuses...

You're saying, given two giants in plate, with identical DSs, identical armors, identical rolls on all random rolls (ie, same endroll, same hidden rolls if there are any), the giant with a higher con bonus will take less damage? Whats the entire formula?

Same with two elves swinging the same weapon against the same target?

I had no idea about this...tell me more!

[Danical]

Yeah, I'll believe it since it's an emperical research demonstrates it.

It was in the research folder on the officials along with the documentation.

And it's not less damage per se, it's crit padding. However, if you had enough crit padding to reduce the crit down a level then you would effectively take less damage.

[bubbauno]

Back on topic.. Interested buyers only

[Jonty]

Damage padding sucks.


You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a vultite maul at Perigourd!
AS: +414 vs DS: +12 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +61 = +498
... and hit for 6 points of damage!
Solid strike caves Perigourd's skull in, resulting in instant death!



And it's not less damage per se, it's crit padding. However, if you had enough crit padding to reduce the crit down a level then you would effectively take less damage.

:yeahthat:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Jonty
Damage padding sucks.How often does anyone get hit in the head with a maul from hiding for a 500 endroll?

[gempawn]

Well, Not many mobs will ambush you from hiding, WIth a maul, and with your DS being 12 <were you laying down?> And how decent was the padded armor?

I know if you have awsome redux, and you want damage padded all the way.

Sure you'll get critted more, but you'll die a lot less from blood loss.

So its kinda either or.

I'd take the 6 points of damage on the _498 end roll vs, tkaing 30 damage and smaller stun.

Imagine what the damage would be if it was open hit?

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
How often does anyone get hit in the head with a maul from hiding for a 500 endroll?
In places like OTF, which was being discussed, there are manuevers and flares that don't need a 500 endroll. And with random crits, even open shots can be pretty bad on lower endrolls.

In anycase, crit padding is still better since reduces crits, and damage from the crits. I'd rather live, have a shorted stun and less damage, than just take less damage and have the same chance of a one shot death crit, or standing there stunned for a longer period of time being attacked; it's not just physical attacks in a lot of places. I'd probably be getting hit with spells during longer stuns too.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Jonty]

[Jonty]

Sure you'll get critted more, but you'll die a lot less from blood loss.


If I died from blood loss, it's because I was stunned for a long ass time.

Damage padding was a lot better in GS3 when the redux cap wasn't reduced. Even if you took a big stun, you'd stand there taking, like 2 damage.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Jonty]

[Sylph]

Yeah Jonty... but who cares because you said that the longer stun was a big issue for you.

You can't glance back to the old days and then sneer at the current while ignoring one of your reasons that it isn't good these days.



I'll tell you this much. When I was wearing Crit padded plate and I got stunned from a manuver or spell... I generally died before the stun wore off.

In the damage padded plate? I stood there and was able to continue hunting unless another manuver or spell hit me and took me down.

[Danical]

I think with the additions of beseech, berserk, stun man and other various ways to get out of stuns/binds/webs and whatnot, the only thing that kills my melee swinging characters are instacrits to the eye or other vitals areas. . . . like a scout ambushing, getting a 101 outcome and blowing a hole through my head like a trekie and his first nobber.

Hence why I generally like the crit padding.

However, it really matters on the situation. Making blanket statements almost always results in sitting on one's own balls.

[StrayRogue]

Death from blood loss just means you're retarded, especially if you're a warrior, rogue or paladin. Crit Padding is far more useful in a whole myriad of different circumstances where Damage Padding is not.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Death from blood loss just means you're retarded, especially if you're a warrior, rogue or paladin. Crit Padding is far more useful in a whole myriad of different circumstances where Damage Padding is not.

True. Unlike what Tsin said though, crit padding isn't necessary in any hunting area in the game. It's great armor, and you can sell it without lying about it's benefits (ie. it's necessary or you will die in OTF to maneuvers).

[StrayRogue]

I agree.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Sylph
Yeah Jonty... but who cares because you said that the longer stun was a big issue for you.

You can't glance back to the old days and then sneer at the current while ignoring one of your reasons that it isn't good these days.


Huh? I'm not sneering at anything, just making an observation. I don't think damaging padding isn't good anymore, just that crit padding is better. I was just messing around when I said it sucked(the kill on Peri was on the test instance BTW, when everyone could get insane gear.)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Jonty
In places like OTF, which was being discussed, there are manuevers and flares that don't need a 500 endroll.If he had said "Best Full Plate Armors In The Lands for OTF", I would have kept my mouth (fingers?) shut. Can you honestly say that in the majority of your pre-cap hunting experience, you have been subjected to OTF-esque flares and maneuvers?
And with random crits, even open shots can be pretty bad on lower endrolls. Crits don't randomize upwards. Crit randomization is something in favor of damage padding, not the other way around.

[bubbauno]

There is no point to argue... Crit is far superior to damage and the market value proves it..

[Danical]

market value is based on perception . . . and that is what this discussion is all about.

[bubbauno]

No.. market value for high end items is created and balanced by the rich merchants.. like me. Perceptions don't mean shit.

[GSTamral]

<<<
Believe what you want.

:chuckles:
>>>

In that case I'll choose to believe Warden, who specifically said both damage padding and crit padding are both randomized using the same formula at the Con. The guy who designed it and approved the system probably knows better than you.

[Artha]

Crits don't randomize upwards.
They're +/- 2 ranks.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Crits don't randomize upwards.

Yes they do.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Jonty]

[StrayRogue]

Thats how you get death crits on low end rolls with and without ambushing.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Artha

Crits don't randomize upwards.
They're +/- 2 ranks.


Rank 9s can randomize down to rank 5 Artha. Wouldn't that be -4?

[Artha]

I guess so.

[Danical]

<<No.. market value for high end items is created and balanced by the rich merchants.. like me. Perceptions don't mean shit.

Totally incorrect on any economic model. If people don't perceive it to be worth your price they won't pay for it. And you'll be stuck until someone does.

Balance you speak of comes from the buyer and seller . . . perception has everything to do with it.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by bubbauno
There is no point to argue... Crit is far superior to damage and the market value proves it.. Which is why I asked if you were basing this off a market analysis or a mechanical analysis. People will pay way more for an altered 4x weapon than a plain 4x weapon, that doesn't mean alters are mechanically superior to unaltered weaponry.

Re: crits randomizing upwards: I've never seen any research that shows that. Of course, all one would have to do is post a hit of a crit randomizing upwards and he or she would prove me wrong.

[reginrok]

Damage padding and crit padding are both random.

Damage padding/weighting ranges from 1-whatever the highest amount is.
EXAMPLE: The ash black mattocks are damage weighted 30 pts, so they randomize from 1-30, average 15.

Crit padding/weighting randomizes in two scenarios.
1)It's randomized from 1/2x the max to the max for randomization on direct padding/weighting.
Example: If something is heavily crit weighted(10pts), It will randomize from 5-10 ranks, or 3-5 phantom damage.
2)After crit weighting/padding is calculated in, it still must go through crit mismapping which varies (-, +)4 ranks.

Essentially, damage padding only goes through one randomization, while crit padding goes through two.

Mechcanically, if you have a way to break stuns, damage padding will most probably serve you better.

As said before, even if you are stunned, and have superior damage padding, you'll be taking small nicks while stunned.

Crit padding can help survive those massive 300+shots occassionally, helps against maneuvers and such, but you still wind up taking the damge.

In my opinion, if you're relying on your padding to save you from anything, you're a bullshit character.

Padding is always nice, but as a warrior I'd prefer damage, as let's say a ranger, I'd profer crit. It depends on what character is using it under what situation.

Considering it's full plate, I'd assume warriors/paladins use it mostly. Both of which can break stuns, and both of which can get pretty nice redux.

In my opinion, damage paddng is worth no less than crit padding, and I believe the mechanics support that. People simply perceive that crit padding is far superior.

On my last note, full plate has a high crit divisor anyways. Don't let things hit you so easily(warriors feint, etcetera) and you'll be fine.

:wow: Keep in mind, this is half fact, half my opinion.

[Artha]

Totally incorrect on any economic model. If people don't perceive it to be worth your price they won't pay for it. And you'll be stuck until someone does.
Except the GS model, where the top 1% of the wealthy just sell things back and forth between themselves.

[Jonty]

Mechcanically, if you have a way to break stuns, damage padding will most probably serve you better.

I see it the other way around. If I can break a stun, then I don't have to worry about taking tons of damage. I'd rather have crit padding to lessen the chance of a one shot kill, or serious wounds, while taking less damage because of lower crits.

[gempawn]

I see it the other way around. If I can break a stun, then I don't have to worry about taking tons of damage. I'd rather have crit padding to lessen the chance of a one shot kill, or serious wounds, while taking less damage because of lower crits.



How often have you been killed in Full plate?

[Jonty]

How often have you been killed in Full plate?

Not often, but I have taken serious head injuries in it once in a while because of randomized crits; it's pretty annoying.

The one shot kills that do get me are from flares or manuever attacks.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Jonty]

[gempawn]

Not often, but I have taken serious head injuries in it once in a while because of randomized crits; it's pretty annoying.

The one shot kills that do get me are from flares or manuever attacks.

------------


In playing with exceptionally Damage padded plate and comparing it to exceptionally crit padded plate, I'd take the damage padded each time. Just based on experience I live more and longer.

[bubbauno]

I don't care what anyone says, quality is determined by market value, and that's all that matters.. Damage is worth HALF of what crit is, so crit is obviously better.. Either way, the prices are around 175 for the 6x and 225 for the 5x.. Negotiable of course.

[reginrok]

Quality is determined by mechanical benefit, price is determined by what someone thinks it's worth. There is in fact a difference.

[gempawn]

I don't care what anyone says, quality is determined by market value, and that's all that matters.. Damage is worth HALF of what crit is, so crit is obviously better.. Either way, the prices are around 175 for the 6x and 225 for the 5x.. Negotiable of course.
---------------


either someone will cave and overpay, or he'll lower the prices /shrug.

[bubbauno]

With new changes, high end armor will skyrocket in value.. I'm not too worried at all

[StrayRogue]

I imagine with the stealth changes (if ever) nice brig's value will skyrocket.

[Danical]

New changes . . . like say, breakage?

[bubbauno]

I meant death's sting changes

[bubbauno]

5x set sold!