Those stupid Palestians...

[Atlanteax]

If Palestians are good at anything, it's shooting themselves in the foot... :rolleyes:

.

A STRATFOR article...

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=255475

Geopolitical Diary: Wednesday, Sept. 14, 2005
September 14, 2005 04 44 GMT



Looting broke out in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday as Israel's enduring grip on the territory finally fell away.

Undoubtedly dizzied by their first flush of freedom in years, Palestinians carted off equipment from several high-tech greenhouses once owned by Israeli settlers and broke apart the barricades that had kept them separate from Egyptian territory. By the end of the day, tens of thousands of Palestinians had flooded across the border to trade, travel, reunite with loved ones, or just savor the air outside of what has, for all practical purposes, been a prison camp.

The day ended with the largest-ever Hamas rally and the organization's leader, Mahmoud Zahar, insisting that not only would Hamas never disarm, but "these weapons will remain aimed at the chest of the enemy until we achieve liberation, God willing. We are not going to rest until we raise the flag of Islam over the minarets of Jerusalem."

In short, everything that the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip could have done to seal their fate was done on Tuesday.

For one thing, the greenhouses that were looted were donated by pro-peace groups based in Israel and abroad. Collectively, they were expected to provide Gaza with its largest supply of export revenues. It is now an open question, however, whether they will be anything more than vacant buildings. Since Israel no longer relies on migrant workers from the Gaza Strip, the territory cannot now export even its labor.

Second, while the Israelis may be paranoid about many security issues, one concern near the top of the list is that Palestinian militants will smuggle people, weapons and explosives to turn a non-occupied Gaza into a launching point targeting Israel proper. A border as blown open as the Gaza-Egypt frontier is solid ground for such a fear.

Third, the Gazans are splitting from the broader Palestinian movement. In addition to being aggravating to the Israelis, Zahar's statement about Hamas' refusal to disarm was also a dart directed against Palestinian National Authority (PNA) President Mahmoud Abbas, who is ostensibly the leader of all Palestinians -- whether in Gaza or the West Bank. Hamas sees itself as the rightful leader of the Palestinians and views the efforts by Abbas, who is in the West Bank, to encourage order in Gaza as interference. Abbas wants Hamas to disarm and leave security issues in Gaza to the PNA. Zahar obviously disagrees.

All of this combines to put Gaza in Israel's crosshairs. No Israeli government could long tolerate a bordering territory so hostile, and with Zahar moving to sever ties to Abbas, Gaza does not have many friends. Though Israeli forces are unlikely to return to Gaza, what they can do is take over the Gaza-Egypt border and lock the place down. Israel has already built a combination sea wall/net to ensure that its maritime approaches are as secure as possible. And once the Gaza Strip has been locked down, its 1.3 million residents would be left to stew in their own juices. It must be remembered that Ariel Sharon did not give the order for Israel to abandon Gaza because Hamas was a serious strategic threat -- he did so because it was not practical to defend the scant handful of Israeli settlers who chose to live there. Israel already has three of the Gaza Strip's borders nearly hermitically sealed; it would not take great effort to similarly restrict access to the fourth.

Upon hearing of the looting, Abbas declared "We are not going to tolerate chaos after today." But all things considered, the Palestinians may not have a choice.

[HarmNone]

I think it's more a matter of that supid Hamas, rather than "those stupid Palestinians". All Palestinians do not approve of Hamas, or its doings. Hopefully, Abbas will be able to rally the majority of the Palestinian people and stop the nonsense Zahar is trying to promote. We'll just have to wait and see how things develop.

[Atlanteax]

Well, I think it's stupid that they'd loot the greenhouses set up (by organizations hoping for peace in the conflict) for them to use an as exporting industry.

Now, they don't really have any "service" to provide.

[xtc]

It is a shame that this has happened. After all these people have been through it is not surprising that an massive emotional outbreak ensued. People in America have done it for far less, over enthusiastic hockey/football/basball fans after their team wins a championship.

The Palestinians were second in line to loot. The Israeli soldiers were first in line, they didn't pass up the opportunity to steal in Gaza before they pulled out.

ARTICLE (http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13341&It emid=146)

With Israeli soldiers carrying out illegal shoot to kill orders against unarmed Palestinians it is no wonder these people errupted on there first day of freedom.

ARTICLE (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1563531,00.html)

Even Pat Buchannan has sympathy for the Palestinians.

ARTICLE (http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/cgi-bin/buchanan.cgi)

but yes it is a shame.

[StrayRogue]

Trying to be a smartass and spelling the name wrong of the people you're whining about WRONG automatically makes you more of a dumbass than the folk you're trying to piss on.

[ElanthianSiren]

Stupid fundamentalists and expansionists in general, and I include Americans in that statement.

I've never been able to comprehend why humans seem to lack the ability to be at peace with what they already have.

-M

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Stupid fundamentalists and expansionists in general, and I include Americans in that statement.

I've never been able to comprehend why humans seem to lack the ability to be at peace with what they already have.

-M

LOL..

How far do you believe mankind would have evolved if they stuck to that way of thinking? It's instinctive for us to want more, to push ourselves, to aspire to be greater than we are. It's what drives us... defines us... from the other animals.

It's the mother of invention.. the reason we move from place to place, the motive for exploring.

Without that, we would be big chimps sitting in Africa still.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Stupid fundamentalists and expansionists in general, and I include Americans in that statement.

I've never been able to comprehend why humans seem to lack the ability to be at peace with what they already have.

-M

LOL..

How far do you believe mankind would have evolved if they stuck to that way of thinking? It's instinctive for us to want more, to push ourselves, to aspire to be greater than we are. It's what drives us... defines us... from the other animals.

It's the mother of invention.. the reason we move from place to place, the motive for exploring.

Without that, we would be big chimps sitting in Africa still.

There is a difference between improving ourselves and stealing from our neighbours.

[Sean of the Thread]

wtf is a palestians?

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Stupid fundamentalists and expansionists in general, and I include Americans in that statement.

I've never been able to comprehend why humans seem to lack the ability to be at peace with what they already have.

-M

LOL..

How far do you believe mankind would have evolved if they stuck to that way of thinking? It's instinctive for us to want more, to push ourselves, to aspire to be greater than we are. It's what drives us... defines us... from the other animals.

It's the mother of invention.. the reason we move from place to place, the motive for exploring.

Without that, we would be big chimps sitting in Africa still.

I don't believe in having more than you can use, sorry. I rather respect old native american culture for this reason. You can't take it with you when you go anyway.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

There are always a few things that more equals better. Personal Lubricant and money fall into that category.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Xyelin]

[ElanthianSiren]

:lol2: I wouldn't know on the personal lubricant front, but I will take your word for it.

I pose you this question: once you have enough money that you can live comfortably, what is the use of MORE money? I am not trying to sound communistic, this is simply an exercise we do in trading. For instance, usually if I've made 500.00, I will cash out the day and go do something else. That money will likely cover any losses I'd take the next day, as well as leaving me with 200.00 on the day. If the next day is very choppy or slow, that money also leaves me with the option not to play.

-M

Hopefully Palestine will get things together. I've been a huge proponent of Palestinian liberation for a while, but unfortunately, since it took so long there will a lot of damage that needs to be repaired.

- Arkans

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
:lol2: I wouldn't know on the personal lubricant front, but I will take your word for it.

I pose you this question: once you have enough money that you can live comfortably, what is the use of MORE money? I am not trying to sound communistic, this is simply an exercise we do in trading. For instance, usually if I've made 500.00, I will cash out the day and go do something else. That money will likely cover any losses I'd take the next day, as well as leaving me with 200.00 on the day. If the next day is very choppy or slow, that money also leaves me with the option not to play.

-M

"comfortably" is different for everyone. I'm currently homeless but living comfortably.

Are you a day trader?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
Hopefully Palestine will get things together. I've been a huge proponent of Palestinian liberation for a while, but unfortunately, since it took so long there will a lot of damage that needs to be repaired.

- Arkans I'm in complete agreement. And also since it's taken so long to attain what they have just so recently, it will likely come at a cost. As has been shown so far. Terrorist organizations will continue to shed light on themselves and their warped plight at the expense of those who have waited so long for even a semblance of freedom. There are still many trials and tribulations they will go through in order to attain peace for and amongst themselves.

[Skeeter]

Originally posted by Xyelin
There are always a few things that more equals better. Personal Lubricant and money fall into that category.

Tucker Max (http://www.tuckermax.com/tuckertriesbuttsex.html) would disagree.

[ElanthianSiren]

:lol2: That's friggin awesome. Stupid asshole.



The memory of the 2-second span where all three of us were vomiting at once is permanently seared into my brain. I have never heard anything like that symphony of sickness. It was like something out of the old Pink Panther movies.

-M

(damn smilies too!)

[Edited on Thu, September th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Artha]

Tucker Max is basically the coolest person ever.

[Tsa`ah]

I so called this a month prior.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=17056


Originally posted by xtc
It is a shame that this has happened. After all these people have been through it is not surprising that an massive emotional outbreak ensued. People in America have done it for far less, over enthusiastic hockey/football/basball fans after their team wins a championship.

People in every nation have done it for less. Past instances will never justify future occurrences however.


The Palestinians were second in line to loot. The Israeli soldiers were first in line, they didn't pass up the opportunity to steal in Gaza before they pulled out.

ARTICLE (http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13341&It emid=146)

Spin much? Nice to see you once again throwing out a blanket villain label. Do note that two were caught looting and arrested for it by members of the very force they serve. Others reports and findings will likely find offending soldiers punished severely.



With Israeli soldiers carrying out illegal shoot to kill orders against unarmed Palestinians it is no wonder these people errupted on there first day of freedom.

ARTICLE (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1563531,00.html)


So I take it that you wouldn't mind if an article or two were posted about you alleging that you are a pedophile and child molester, and then I follow up with a post here saying that you are, only linking to an article that reports the allegations.

Aside from that, the article takes a hard core spin that puts you to shame. We're talking about the land of snipers and suicide bombers. I would probably shoot during an evac as well if I thought some piece of shit was going to make a run with a bomb shoved up his ass.


Even Pat Buchannan has sympathy for the Palestinians.

ARTICLE (http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/cgi-bin/buchanan.cgi)

I generally dismiss any "sympathy" presented by rich old men who hold political power or an interest in it.

[Slider]

I agree with Tsa'ah.....must be the end of the world.

It's pretty sad that no matter what, Isreal always seems to get the blame, yet the terrorists are the ones who get labeled "defenders" and "peaceful".

Back in '86 or so, I was in Isreal, pulled in to a really beautiful place called Haifa. Unfortunatly, those "peaceful" folks the PLO, decided to have a demonstration against Isreali "occupation".

In the course of that event, myself and three other guys got caught in a bad place, between the "peaceful" demonstrators, and the Isreali police. I got hit in the head with an apple. No big deal, right? Err...wrong. See, that apple had been filled with nails. Cut me good, 15 stitches to put my scalp back togethor. But the next day, all I saw on the news was footage of Isreali cops beating those "peaceful" PLO demonstrators with riot batons.

Funny...nothing in there about them throwing fruit full of nails at the cops, nothing about them shooting at the cops (did I mention that?) Just Isreali cops going nuts for "no reason" on those nice, peaceful demonstrators.

Trust me, Hamas is 100 times worse than the PLO ever was. The PLO used terrorism to try to force Isreal to negotiate. Hamas wants to destroy Isreal. Period. Don't beleive me, read their literature.

[Terminator X]

This was pretty stupid:

JEBALIYA, Gaza Strip (Sept. 24) - It was supposed to have been a joyous event.

Thousands of Palestinians waving the green flag of the Hamas militant group gathered at this impoverished Palestinian refugee camp - once a frequent battleground during Israeli-Palestinian violence - for a victory rally celebrating Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

Instead, the people of Jebaliya suffered yet again. A pickup truck filled with masked Hamas militants and homemade rockets exploded as children surrounded it, killing at least 15 Palestinians and wounding 80.

The blast sent a huge cloud of white smoke over the mass festivities, a grisly and terrifying end to one of the last in a string of rallies by armed groups lauding their campaign of suicide attacks and other violence as having forced Israel's withdrawal from land Palestinians claim for a future state.

Mishandled explosives apparently caused the blast, which came a day before an agreement by militants not to publicly parade weapons is to take effect.

After the initial confusion, people began running away from the rally and gunmen fired in the air. People wailed in grief as others tried to tend to the mangled and dismembered bodies of the dead and wounded.

Palestinian hospital officials said 15 people were killed and 80 others injured. Dozens of children were wounded in the blast, health officials said.

Hamas said six militants were killed, including Jihad Shaleal, head of the group's military wing in Jebaliya.

"There was smoke all over, and then we saw people in pieces, but we couldn't make out what really happened," said 18-year-old Hazem Abu Rashad.

Palestinian security officials said the blast was an accident but Hamas blamed Israel and launched a volley of homemade rockets at the Israeli town of Sderot, injuring five Israelis.

Israel, denying any connection with the blast, responded to the rockets with airstrikes early Saturday on what the army called Hamas weapons facilities. Three people were injured in the attacks, the first airstrikes since Israel's pullout.

Since Israel left Gaza last week, ending a 38-year military occupation, militant groups have held rallies throughout the Mediterranean coastal strip, parading with rockets, grenades and rifles.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, struggling to combat the chaos and the public display of arms in Gaza, wrested a pledge from militant groups to stop holding military-style parades with weapons after Saturday.

"There is absolutely no excuse to parade weapons in the streets," Palestinian National Security Adviser Jibril Rajoub said Friday. "The (militant groups) are merely trying to express their power and their capabilities. I would hope Palestinian society will soon be rid of all of these images."

The explosion came in the middle of the celebration. The militants are extremely popular with young Palestinians, and teenagers surrounded the pickup before the blast, said Abu Rashad, who was just a few feet away. He said three militants with two homemade rockets were in the truck's bed, and three or four other militants rode inside.

Men carried bloody body parts and corpses wrapped in blankets to nearby cars. At Shifa Hospital, doctors treated patients on the emergency room floor after they ran out of beds. Masked Hamas men wheeled in casualties.

Hamas swiftly claimed Israeli aircraft had targeted the militants with a missile. "We will avenge the blood of our martyrs," said Nizar Rayan, a Hamas leader.

But Palestinian officials said the explosion was set off by the mishandling of explosives. The Interior Ministry issued a statement calling on Hamas "to shoulder its responsibility for these ... explosions instead of making accusations against others."

An accidental explosion would be only the latest in a string of deadly mishaps for militant groups in Gaza.

A Hamas weapons warehouse exploded this month in Gaza City, killing six people. Hamas claimed it was an Israeli attack, but Palestinian security forces found the blast was an accident caused by the militants.

During an Islamic Jihad rally at the abandoned Jewish settlement of Netzarim last week, a gunman died after accidentally shooting himself in the head.

Even after the blast Friday, seven or eight gunmen stood in the back of another truck riding through Gaza, using their feet to stop a half-dozen rockets from bouncing around in the bed.

Elsewhere Friday, Israeli forces killed three Palestinian gunmen in a West Bank raid.

Troops entered the village of Ilar near Tulkarem after midnight and surrounded a building to arrest senior Islamic Jihad militants inside. Three gunmen fled and were shot dead after opening fire on pursuing Israeli troops, the military said.

Abbas called the killing a "dangerous and unjustified action. We are exerting efforts to maintain the (February) cease-fire and they are doing this action without any reason."

Despite the truce, Israel continues to target cells of Islamic Jihad, which has been involved in several attacks on Israeli targets. The group launched four homemade rockets into Israel on Friday afternoon, claiming it was retaliation for the raid. The rockets caused no injuries or damage.

Meanwhile, Palestinians temporarily opened the crossing between Gaza and Egypt, hoping to set a precedent and pressure Israel to reach a permanent border agreement with them.

Israel shut down Rafah, Gaza's main gateway to the outside world, before pulling out. It wants Rafah sealed for six months for a technological upgrade and to test Palestinian ability to take control. In the meantime, Palestinians are to use an alternative crossing in Israel, to be opened next week.

Israel, however, approved opening Rafah for two days starting Friday, mainly to allow the passage of people seeking medical treatment or studying or living abroad. Several thousand travelers arrived at the once-heavily guarded crossing Friday morning, some sitting on suitcases and napping as they waited.

Thousands of Palestinians broke through the Gaza-Egypt border last week after Israel withdrew and before the frontier was sealed. Mark Regev, an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, said Israel was concerned by the border chaos last week and doesn't want the crossing permanently reopened until security is upgraded.

.

I know that I like to not blow myself up when I go to liberation rallies...