Sorc max CS and use of spell ranks.

[Asha]

Okay I was reading Nakiros training posts, and got to wondering about CS for a Sorcerer.
When should I stop training in cirtain circles to avoid wasting points, also when's a sorc reach his spell training cap?

I make it ,
MnS - 66 ranks.
MnE - 75 ranks.
Sorc - 162 ranks.

How's that sound?



[Edited on 9-5-2005 by Drayal]

[FinisWolf]

I know for MinE that 75 is correct, but going over 75 still affords you CS. At least thats my understanding.

Finis

[Asha]

I have 80 so far and that's where it's staying, in the MnE field.
Until he's 100.

[Artha]

It still gives you CS, but the cost isn't worth it. I think ideally it'd be

MnE: 75
MnS: 66
Sorc: 120 or 160, I don't remember.

[The Ponzzz]

You can go over 100 spell ranks in a circle?

Thought 100 was the limit...

[Miss X]

You can go well over 100. You just can't have more than 303 spells in total.

In terms of CS, I am going for 143 empath, and 66 minor/major spiritual. Naseer has a 500 cleric circle CS with that set up. I have another 30 whole spells to go though!

[Axhinde]

75 for MnE will net you the max bonus for 425. Going above that won't be worth the points if you're trying to max your Sorc CS. With 66 ranks MnS and 162 Sorc, you should be warding close to, if not, 540.

Edit: You'll be sacrificing a lot of skills just to 3x spells, which really doesn't add that much more CS in the higher age ranges. My Wizard was 3x spells, but is now 2.6x and has a lot more magic ranks, including lores, HP, and really only lost like 10 CS.

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by Axhinde]

[Sylph]

Wizard's need the defense Axhinde. 430 Still affords 1ds every two ranks and 913 still affords 1ds every rank...


I see no reason why to train a wizard with anything but 3x spells.

[Axhinde]

I'm garnering more DS now than I was 3x spells. He will still have maxed 430 bonus, and overtraining in 900s circle just for DS from 1 spell is pointless. I see far more use in the 400s and 500s than I do with the 900s circle, far beyond DS purposes. If all I wanted was a DS mage, then I'd take a different route.

On top of that, he hunts even more effictively with bolt and CS based attacks, due to lores. If you happen to be one of those people who suggest lores are worthless, then we have a problem.

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by Axhinde]

[hectomaner]

nakiro doesnt have a 500 cleric CS idiot

[Asha]

heheh.
Shimmerain has an empath CS of 430

[Stunseed]

< I see no reason why to train a wizard with anything but 3x spells. >

My sword and board Wizard does very, very well.

[Dwarven Empath]

Yes we can have up to 303 spells. So my final tally will be 169 empath spells, and 67 minor/major spiritual.

Right now I have :
Minor Spiritual...42
Major Spiritual...42
Empath Base.......154

65 spells to go!

[Fallen]

75 for MnE will net you the max bonus for 425. Going above that won't be worth the points if you're trying to max your Sorc CS. With 66 ranks MnS and 162 Sorc, you should be warding close to, if not, 540. >>

75 + 66 + 162 = 303 spell ranks.

Sounds like the way to go to me.

[Jonty]

This would get you the highest Sorcerer CS:

AU Bonus: 35
WI Bonus: 30
Sorc: 162
MnE: 73
MnS: 68
CS: 517(Approximate)
+25(425) = 542

You don't need to get 75 MnE ranks to get the max for the sorcerer circle.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Miss X
You can go well over 100. You just can't have more than 303 spells in total.

In terms of CS, I am going for 143 empath, and 66 minor/major spiritual. Naseer has a 500 cleric circle CS with that set up. I have another 30 whole spells to go though!

You're behind Naseer now?

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin]

[Zanagodly]

74 ranks actually maxes 425. test it yourself

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Zanagodly
74 ranks actually maxes 425. test it yourself

Yeah, for a pure elemental circle. For the sorcerer circle, it maxes out earlier at 73 ranks.

[Sylph]

My DS really jumped from being a lores/2.5x or so spell wizard to much higher when I tripled with a runestaff.


I didn't really see any reason for the lores, either.

Infact -- I say that my wizard hunts better now than ever before.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Sylph
Wizard's need the defense Axhinde. 430 Still affords 1ds every two ranks and 913 still affords 1ds every rank...


I see no reason why to train a wizard with anything but 3x spells.

You see no reason? How about cause to get 2 ranks of 400s to get 1 DS from 430, thats 128 physical points you'd need to convert. For the same amount of physicals, you could also get 5 ranks of shield and 5 ranks of brawling. At the least, thats 10 DS in defensive and 5 in offensive. In a strictly DS/points spent mentality, physical skills are a better investment than tripling, especially when you are converting to mental.

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Sylph
My DS really jumped from being a lores/2.5x or so spell wizard to much higher when I tripled with a runestaff.


I didn't really see any reason for the lores, either.

Infact -- I say that my wizard hunts better now than ever before.

It's funny how I got the same exact result, only with different methods. Where does your wizard hunt? Mine hunts in OTF and the lores really help my 415 and bolt spells clean up insanely. Plus the ability to wear lbp and cuirb with minimum hindrance is supremo. And damn you for derailing this thread. We're supposed to be discussing sorc CS, not wizard DS.

[Asha]

It's kool as skool Axhinde.
You pretty much helped sort out all my questions.

Derail away.

[Janarth]

A wizard can generate more than 4 DS per train (more than a tripler) by getting a shield rank, weapon rank, a 500s rank and a 900s rank; and it costs less than tripling.

Sorcerers are in the same boat, you get 4 DS per train by training 100, shield, weapon and 700s. Why triple? Only benefits are more CS and spell duration. Spell duration is not worth it, so it falls to offence vs defence I guess. Now if the defining spells for wizards and sorcerers allowed DS bonuses past their level, then I'd definitely triple (DS and CS), but right now I'd rather have 10 DS points then 2 CS points.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Sylph

I see no reason why to train a wizard with anything but 3x spells.

Maybe to have fun, RP, and not be cookie cutter. Plus it's faster killing, not restricted to mana, and gives you more options. Other than that no reason at all.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Originally posted by Sylph

I see no reason why to train a wizard with anything but 3x spells.

Maybe to have fun, RP, and not be cookie cutter. Plus it's faster killing, not restricted to mana, and gives you more options. Other than that no reason at all.

What do you know? :P

[Sylph]

Right now, I'm in the Skull Temple and am wearing 6x leathers and using a 4x runestaff. (Guarded defense of 550ish self-spelled and 420-430ish in offensive)

My mastery of the MjE and leech usually leaves me fried and nearly full of power after every hunt. I quickly dispose of everything that I target because my Bolt AS and CS(MnE, MjE, and Wizard) are all extremely high.

At 64 -- I bolt at 387(self-spelled), MjE 368, MnE 369, Wiz 368 for offensive capabilities.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Sylph]

[Sean of the Thread]

Skull temple is so damn easy for wizzzznerds.

[Sylph]

I agree --- I just spam my acid bolt script and rarely pay much attention.

[Axhinde]

Your AS won't be any higher than normal. With 425 maxed, only other bolt AS affecting spell is 513, which does not give a bonus past the caster's level.

[Sylph]

Right... Past the caster's level -- I doubt any non-3x spell trained wizards have that much MjE.

[FinisWolf]

If I recall, as a wizard, for the best benifits from spells (425/430, 513, and 913) I would want 75 in the 400's, 100 in the 500's, and 100 in the 900's? I realize that will not afford the best CS, but I believe it will afford the best benifits from spells.

?

Finis

[Stunseed]

75 in MnE
125 in MjE
100 in Wizard

I believe that's the route most are taking these days.

[FinisWolf]

then I am missing the benifit to going to 125 MjE ... since there is no benifit beyond your level ... elaborate?

Finis

[Stunseed]

I'd mainly have to say the extra leech ability, MjE CS for 519, and the ability to charge items with extra ranks.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Skull temple is so damn easy for wizzzznerds.

I thought it was easy for anyone.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
then I am missing the benifit to going to 125 MjE ... since there is no benifit beyond your level ... elaborate?

Finis

Is 503 bounded by level? For some reason I don't think it is...maybe thats why?

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Jonty

Originally posted by Xyelin
Skull temple is so damn easy for wizzzznerds.

I thought it was easy for anyone.

Squares seem to bite it alot in there I thought? Been years since I've really spent any time in there.

Moulisville seemed to be popular for rapid firing wiznerds too.

[Iriscience]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Miss X
You can go well over 100. You just can't have more than 303 spells in total.

In terms of CS, I am going for 143 empath, and 66 minor/major spiritual. Naseer has a 500 cleric circle CS with that set up. I have another 30 whole spells to go though!

You're behind Naseer now?

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin]

Actually Naseer has the maximum giantman cleric CS 508. With 67 minor and major spells and 169 cleric.

[Sylph]

Hmm... 75/125/100? Interesting Interesting -- I do love my leech ability though! :D

[FinisWolf]

Ok, I can see leach, that would mean you are starting leach at 125 per leach (saying it keeps going the way it is for me now), yea, spaced 503, 507, 513, 516 ... been forever since I looked at what goes on with each spell, 517 however, is not that you can get more in, simply that you have a better chance of success, not that I have ever failed since I received that spell.

I guess if you are really in need of DS, pumping to 125 ranks in the MjE circle makes sense, but really ... and yes, sure there is 516, but damn, as a wizard, I really don't need alot of mana anymore at my great lord status.

As usual, it appears to drop to that thing of ... what do you want to do with your character? Personally, I can think of afew things to do with 25 ranks of spell points (32 mtp) ... I have time to think about it though, thats a ways off.

Finis

[Stunseed]

< not that I have ever failed since I received that spell. >

More ranks = higher success with items with spells NOT known in Wizard circle. At 17 ranks, try charging a mage-rechargable 120 item, versus 50, or for control's sake, 100.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Squares seem to bite it alot in there I thought? Been years since I've really spent any time in there.

Moulisville seemed to be popular for rapid firing wiznerds too.

That place was pretty much a joke for my warrior in GS3 and GS4. In GS3 I'd just wait for them to do something, hide, and kill 'em. In GS4, I'd just hide and kill 'em. Though, due to the random crits, about 1 out of 10 didn't always die on the first.

[Asha]

As a sorc it was basicly the spider temple in it's easynessness all over again.
Had to murder so many for scripting there, even though I'd have done the same thing if I knew how.
:shrug:

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Iriscience
Actually Naseer has the maximum giantman cleric CS 508. With 67 minor and major spells and 169 cleric.

He could have 508 with 72 MnS, 72 MjS, and 159 Cleric. Then his secondary circles would be at 455 instead of 450, plus extra DS from those circles.

[I.I.]

Originally posted by Jonty
This would get you the highest Sorcerer CS:

AU Bonus: 35
WI Bonus: 30
Sorc: 162
MnE: 73
MnS: 68
CS: 517(Approximate)
+25(425) = 542

You don't need to get 75 MnE ranks to get the max for the sorcerer circle.

Sorry to bring up a semi-old topic but your math is a little off. The max sorcerer CS is 540, but all the spell placement etc. is correct.

[Asha]

Welcome to the PC.
Feel free to moderate the sorcerer folder.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Drayal]

[I.I.]

Yeah, thanks....I think. I've been reading the boards for the past couple days but this was the first time i actually felt like posting my input.

[peam]

I WILL EAT YOUR FACE OFF AND USE YOUR EARS FOR TOOTHPICK HOLDERS!!!

[Jonty]

Originally posted by I.I.

Originally posted by Jonty
This would get you the highest Sorcerer CS:

AU Bonus: 35
WI Bonus: 30
Sorc: 162
MnE: 73
MnS: 68
CS: 517(Approximate)
+25(425) = 542

You don't need to get 75 MnE ranks to get the max for the sorcerer circle.

Sorry to bring up a semi-old topic but your math is a little off. The max sorcerer CS is 540, but all the spell placement etc. is correct.

No, it isn't.

CS = (level x 3) + primary spell circle bonus + secondary spell circle 1 + secondary spell circle 2 + stat bonus

CS = 300 + (100 + 15 + 20 + 1) + (23 + 1) + (23 + 1) + 33 = 517

517 + 25 = 542


CS = (level x 3) + primary spell circle bonus + secondary spell circle 1 + secondary spell circle 2 + stat bonus

Primary spell circle bonus: (round normally)
Ranks up to level: 1CS/rank
Ranks 1-20 above level: .75CS/rank
Ranks 21-60 above level: .5CS/rank
Ranks 61-100 above level: .25CS/rank
Ranks 101 -? above level: .125CS/rank

Secondary circle bonuses: (always rounds up...this is the most common place where people mess up)
Ranks up to 2/3 level: .33333CS/rank
Ranks above 2/3 level: .111111CS/rank

The calculation of 2/3 level also rounds up.

Stat bonus:
AU for elemental casters
WI for spiritual casters
(AU+WI)/2 for sorcerers (round up)

[I.I.]

Trust me on this one.

You gesture at an Ithzir seer.
CS: +540 - TD: +409 + CvA: +19 + d100: +88 == +238
Warding failed!
... and hits for 40 points of damage!
An Ithzir seer is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 60 points of damage!
Neck completely incinerated; an Ithzir seer's head drops to the ground and rolls to your feet!
The Ithzir seer clutches at her wounds as she falls, the life fading from her eyes.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
You feel 4 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (15) ... 100 (15)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)

Your spell lists:
Minor Spiritual...68
Minor Elemental...73
Sorcerer Base.....162

Like I said...just a little off, but mostly right.

[Jonty]

Sorry to bring up a semi-old topic but your math is a little off.

My math wasn't off, the formula was. It's not my formula.


Originally posted by I.I.
Trust me on this one.

You gesture at an Ithzir seer.
CS: +540 - TD: +409 + CvA: +19 + d100: +88 == +238
Warding failed!
... and hits for 40 points of damage!
An Ithzir seer is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 60 points of damage!
Neck completely incinerated; an Ithzir seer's head drops to the ground and rolls to your feet!
The Ithzir seer clutches at her wounds as she falls, the life fading from her eyes.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
You feel 4 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (15) ... 100 (15)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)

Your spell lists:
Minor Spiritual...68
Minor Elemental...73
Sorcerer Base.....162

Like I said...just a little off, but mostly right.


Originally posted by Jonty
CS: 517(Approximate)

That's why I put Approximate.... I knew the formula wasn't entirely accurate, but it's the closest anyone has come up with.

Thanks for sharing, though. :up:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Jonty]

[I.I.]

Oh yeah, it wasn't anything personal. I knew it was something a little off with the formula. Figured that out a while ago, I was just fixing your approximation a little bit so others didn't make the same mistake.

But yeah, I was refering to the formula the first time. Guess I should have been more specific.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by I.I.]

[Dwarven Empath]

Nice job I.I. can you figure out how high of a CS my empath can have?

Or Jonty too. I am curious.

Thanks

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Celember
Nice job I.I. can you figure out how high of a CS my empath can have?

Or Jonty too. I am curious.

Thanks

You can use the formula to figure it out yourself, click here (http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=15266&page=1#pid377658) and download my calculator, which does the math for you, or post your empath's level and stats, and I, or someone else, will figure it out.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Jonty]

[I.I.]

Originally posted by Celember
Nice job I.I. can you figure out how high of a CS my empath can have?

Or Jonty too. I am curious.

Thanks

Like Jonty said, you'd have to tell us what race your Empath is for us to figure out what the CS would be at 100.