The Usual Darkies after the World

[TheRoseLady]

Dateline 9/4/2005: DOOM AND THE THREAT OF ARMAGEDDON!

The Dark Alliance has gained control of all four pieces of the Griffin Sword, and their temple has appeared within the skies -- rumours of demonic incursions from across the lands have been whispered among the fearful, and creature of darkness roam freely across the countryside. People everywhere are warned to be on guard!

Eternal night has fallen over the land, and while things look bleak -- there are glimmers of hope throughout the land. The Vaalorian Army, bolstered by its recent battles with the Dark Alliance, has managed to hold most of the horde back from its locale, but warns that there may be some danger in their fortress city. The outpost of Zul Lugoth has reported nothing unusual beyond violent tremors.

Should you seek sanctuary, it is recommended you head to either of those cities. The coming darkness must be stopped. Remain vigilant.

[Kitsun]

Relatively speaking, this armageddon seems kinda weak. Outside of Illistim is mostly clear right now. Saw some onsies-twosies wandering about earlier but they got put down.

[4a6c1]

:)

[Ilvane]

Icemule has some converts and some other things around outside town..and of course the obligitory red snow.

-A

[TheRoseLady]

If you are young avoid the landing inside and out. My paladin got wiped out for walking outside the Inn.

I'm sure that this will be the stuff that dark elven sorcerer dreams are made of, but I get grouchy when the same old tired we must obliterate the light vs dark stuff gets trotted out and the GMs get their rocks off watching mass destruction.

This is a holiday that I had planned on doing some work with my characters, now I get to ring them back and forth between safe areas.

Maybe I've just played this game for too long and the favoritism and gag factors of the Terate quest have forever jaded me? Maybe I have a feeling that Lothwynn is heavily involved in this and I'm still irate with him over the "digging" on the WD and his blatant disregard for the feelings of the customers that were affected by his "tweaking" of said walls from one cruise to the next.

I'm sure for some this is their chance to demonstrate that they are GM material and to do their big RPing auditions. For me it's just another ill-planned, tired, gore and slaughter fest.

Oh, Vaalor and Zul Logoth are "safe". Getting there is another issue entirely. WTG folks.

[petroglyph]

River's Rest is also safe, though I suppose unimportant enough that no one bothered to mention it.

Once, just once, could we have a quest where the consequences of failure are such that, if the players screw up, the GMs are actually going to allow them to occur? We all know the world isn't going to end, so where's the suspense here?

[Latrinsorm]

Seriously. Why don't they just make a GS: Quest for anyone who actually likes this interminable nonsense, and they can destroy that instance to their hearts' content. I'd love to see the logic behind the decision to make people want to NOT play, and on a holiday weekend no less.

And before anyone starts it, the GMs are not "damned if they do and damned if they don't". I'll break it down:
PLAYER REQUEST
Make the game interesting.
NOT A PLAYER REQUEST
Make it so only high level characters can play the game.

[Shonison]

Originally posted by Kitsun
Relatively speaking, this armageddon seems kinda weak. Outside of Illistim is mostly clear right now. Saw some onsies-twosies wandering about earlier but they got put down.

Well it's a compromise. Realistically, we would see vathors and oculoths all over the cities, killing everyone at all hours of the day. Instead, the stone sentinels are really as bad as it gets, and can be handled by most people...especially in Ta'Illistim. The Landing definitely has the worst of it.

[Praefection]

My personal point of view.

It's NICE to see something actually posted so folks aren't bitching about them not knowing there was a safe town, or something was going on, etc.

[Terminator X]

You guys should all come visit me and my peepz' in River's Rest. We can all get blasted off Winterberry :spin:

[Ilvane]

I was involved in this quest way in the beginning, but it lost it's charm after a while..I will fight for my town however, and against darkness, as the character feels strongly about it.

-A

[Hips]

I think it's lame and that this should have been over months ago, if not longer than that.

[Asha]

My character will continue to hunt alone.
Occasionally coming to town to pick and drop off coins.

After i realised this isn't a new hunting ground opening up, I thought fuck it.

[Apotheosis]

ROFL it's the GS apocalypse..

[Miss X]

We need harsher critters in Ta'Illistim. I'd go to the landing but I cant stand the way people act during invasions there. Be nice if we had some cooler stuff happening in TI where most people can handle something stronger than scorpians and sentinels.

[crazymage]

No one cares about TI

[FinisWolf]

To me this is an interesting change.

I have a few 40+ chars that are putting down the random invaders that are lurking about. As does my Fiance'e. I also know many other mid 30+ chars that are doing the same.

To me this is not some high level anything. Sure, once the demons return that will be another story.

Just because this does not sit nicely in your lap does not necessarily mean it can't be fun. Most of you have at least a great lord/lady char. Pull em out! Have fun!

:shrug:

I hope you have a great day!

Finis

NOTE: I think everyone that plays will agree, this is one story line that has went on FAR too long.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
NOTE: I think everyone that plays will agree, this is one story line that has went on FAR too long.

Fortunately not as long as that one with Icky-ella.

My older characters are in Ta'Ill and the rift. The ones I want to work on can't survive even the littler things. Good fun.

[FinisWolf]

Then it makes perfect sense to bring in the older chars for a few days, obliterate these bastards, then return to the normal scheduled program.

:cool2:

Finis

[Skirmisher]

My character is only 32 so it is a bit irritating, yes.

[Skirmisher]

Log in and four things with halberds waltz in and i'm dead before i even get a chance to read the description....fun!

[Gan]

Yea, Ganalon found out about the statues in Solhaven the hard way. :(

[Praefection]

I love those statues. Linsha's sitting in the North Market watching them slaughter people, while she makes thinly veiled comments about ducking. Good fun to pass the time.

[Artha]

Sounds like it's just about Deus Ex Machina time to me.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Storylines in GS would be much more interesting if players were actually given some way to influence or have an effect on what happens, instead of having to just pretend you're involved (which in reality, you're not) while you wait for a GM to decide to pop in at some random time (in this case, extremely random since this storyline is going on what, 3+ years now?) and do a song and dance to advance the storyline while everybody and their brother rushes in to lick his ass in hopes of getting an RP award.

The closest they've come to something like that is the Vvrael saga. But then everyone whined and cried because they weren't one of the "chosen". Losers.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Yea, Ganalon found out about the statues in Solhaven the hard way. :(

So did my older-ish rogue thats just over halfway to cap, halfway being 60 I heard.

Finis

[Ilvane]

They are jackel statues in Solhaven? I'm curious. I probably won't bring Ilvane unless someone tells her in game, but I'd like to get an idea.

-A

[Soulpieced]

Man, all these stupid young critters, I need some post 100 stuff :whistle:

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
If you are young avoid the landing inside and out. My paladin got wiped out for walking outside the Inn.

I'm sure that this will be the stuff that dark elven sorcerer dreams are made of, but I get grouchy when the same old tired we must obliterate the light vs dark stuff gets trotted out and the GMs get their rocks off watching mass destruction.

This is a holiday that I had planned on doing some work with my characters, now I get to ring them back and forth between safe areas.

Maybe I've just played this game for too long and the favoritism and gag factors of the Terate quest have forever jaded me? Maybe I have a feeling that Lothwynn is heavily involved in this and I'm still irate with him over the "digging" on the WD and his blatant disregard for the feelings of the customers that were affected by his "tweaking" of said walls from one cruise to the next.

I'm sure for some this is their chance to demonstrate that they are GM material and to do their big RPing auditions. For me it's just another ill-planned, tired, gore and slaughter fest.

Oh, Vaalor and Zul Logoth are "safe". Getting there is another issue entirely. WTG folks.




To get there just hire a guide. I saw a little guy using one yesterday. Here I am sitting tearin up invasion critters and the guide comes in and immediatly casts sanc. Soon as he leaves the room though the sanc is gone.


Edit: Sorry took so long to edit.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by GSLady17]

[Artha]

Wow, that's pretty cool. Quote the post, then copy/paste it again, then add a sentence at the end. Nice work.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Artha
Wow, that's pretty cool. Quote the post, then copy/paste it again, then add a sentence at the end. Nice work.

:lol: I was like...did I say that much?

[FinisWolf]

Naw, just one of those Ooops, I was dumber then dumb moves everyone makes occasionally.

Finis

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Ilvane
They are jackel statues in Solhaven?
-A

Yes. Draezir has claimed the city and once again renamed it Nighthaven.

[Shari]

So...Jesae is Ivas-aligned and one of those statues just removed her head.

WTF.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Jesae
So...Jesae is Ivas-aligned and one of those statues just removed her head.

WTF.

GMs are lazy and/or stupid.

[Sylph]

This crap is disturbing. I just want to fucking hunt and not have to dodge invasion critters.


I also agree that you just have to 'pretend' to be fucking involved and that has NEVER been fun for me. I have NEVER enjoyed it and I don't want to bother.

If they want to do some storylines they need to have PC's involved from the get go and maybe coordinate the attacks and stuff...

[Electrawn]

This is minor compared to the world war crap that happened in DR. I hear that produced a wave of cancellations.

[Terminator X]

That floating shit reminds me of the floating fortress from Secret of Mana. Yey :party:

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Jesae
So...Jesae is Ivas-aligned and one of those statues just removed her head.

WTF.

Apparently something got overlooked. I'd suggest ASSISTing about it and it is likely they can fix your Recent Deaths, Deeds, etc...

Although.... were you attacking the Lornon creatures around the city/outskirts? Maybe they are set like the "defender" NPCs in that if you attack them, they will attack you for the next 24 hours.

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by Avaia]

[Shari]

Nope. I'm level 10. I already know it would be a lost cause for me to swing at ANYTHING around there at the moment.

[Ilvane]

I never understood the whole "It's a story line I don't want to be involved" thing.

Think of it as it is your world you are living in. Your town gets attacked by a bunch of nasties. You wouldn't go off to another place because the enemy was attacking your family and town, would you? It affects your life, of course..even if you don't like invasions..it's like having a war. You can't predict or control those, usually.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by Jesae
So...Jesae is Ivas-aligned and one of those statues just removed her head.

WTF.

Ent's mate is also Ivas, and it took off his head after he glanced at the statue. So dunno.

I passed the time for a few hours having the statues trail after Entress, seeing what they do.

They'll pull you out of hiding really quick, and will follow you room to room while you're still hidden.

It's past time for Entress to leave, but she's waiting on some business she needs to attend to. I hope it's soon, I'm growing tired of that town. Never liked it to begin with.

[Showal]

I heard the reason invaisions are such high level events are because when they invaid with young creatures, any and every character stronger than the creatures clean up the city within seconds and the younger characters still aren't involved/learning. Making invaisions higher level effects everyone, like an actual siege or invaision would. I don't agree completely with it, but I am without a better solution.

[Stunseed]

I like knowing there might be long lasting effects from what our characters as adventurers lived through. In the imaginary timeline of events in Elanthia, we might be a part of that. Sure, it doesn't make life easy, but while enjoyment of the game is needed, I like the idea of being the Resistance, it makes the environment more realistic.

Sorry for the ramble.

[Shari]

I like the invasions. Even though I've never had a character old enough to ever partake in one. :(

It makes the game more realistic. The towns are facing real trouble here and believe it or not, not everyone gets to be a hero and wipe everything out. There is real danger out there and its not always going to be hearts and flowers. Suck it up and deal with it.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Sylph
This crap is disturbing. I just want to fucking hunt and not have to dodge invasion critters.


I also agree that you just have to 'pretend' to be fucking involved and that has NEVER been fun for me. I have NEVER enjoyed it and I don't want to bother.

If they want to do some storylines they need to have PC's involved from the get go and maybe coordinate the attacks and stuff...


It isn't that hard to bypass the invasion like it ain't happening.

If you script, you can run by the stuff one time. Or if you have a ring, you can just ring past everything.

I ran by the landing stuff manually a few times just to see they hadn't made any funky changes. Only time I died is when I stopped to gawk at a room full of junk.

[Skirmisher]

I don't agree Kitsun.

I had not been logged in for a few days and less than maybe 20 seconds after i had logged in three or four of those jackal statue things waltzed in. I didnt even get a good look at them when WHAM!.

No attack roll, no TD roll, just death. Now I don't know if its an automatic death thing or some kind of CM attack that someone older than 32 can avoid but there was certainly NO roleplaying allowed to transpire. The lovely thing is that there was almost always one of them camped outside the triage tent , so even trying to just run out of the city was exposing me to the same insta-death as earlier. I eventually just logged out from the tent.

Not everyone has the ability to be in the lands as often as others and for me, losing way more than an hour of my precious time in which I can play my characters is very very irritating,

[Fallen]

Usually the areas are pretty well segregated. The higher level creatures stick to one area, and the lesser leveled creatures another.

Here's a hint. If you are under 70, stay away from the Vathors.

[Fission]

As far as sucking up, it being an invasion and all, it would go down a lot easier if some of these things made sense.

The statues in Solhaven are particularly annoying. They can flash you out of hiding, follow you around, and if one gets a chance to swing, instant death crit. Add to that their ability to auto-dispel magic cast at them and it gets pretty stupid.

If the DA had these near-invulnerable engines of destruction, why wait to roll them out? Why not unleash them and continue to do so, and eventually take over the world?

The entire army recognizing you as an enemy from one swing is stupid, too. You can argue magic with the statues, I guess, but how does that make sense with the reivers? Swing at one, and suddenly every reiver in the world knows you're the enemy. Pfft.

I've got characters that can deal with this garbage, but there's better games to play at this point. Just going to ride it out, and wait for the next bit of deus ex machina to make everything magically better again.

:rolleyes:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Think of it as it is your world you are living in.Games are not real life. Real life is not a game.
Originally posted by Jesae
It makes the game more realistic.So would death being permanent. When was the last time your character brushed her teeth? :shrug:

[Ilvane]

Oh, I know the difference between a game and real life, thanks.:) I was just comparing it.

I don't love invasions either. In fact, during this one I was in the temple with a small group of people trying a different approach to the whole thing..:P

-A

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I don't agree Kitsun.

I had not been logged in for a few days and less than maybe 20 seconds after i had logged in three or four of those jackal statue things waltzed in. I didnt even get a good look at them when WHAM!.

No attack roll, no TD roll, just death. Now I don't know if its an automatic death thing or some kind of CM attack that someone older than 32 can avoid but there was certainly NO roleplaying allowed to transpire. The lovely thing is that there was almost always one of them camped outside the triage tent , so even trying to just run out of the city was exposing me to the same insta-death as earlier. I eventually just logged out from the tent.

Not everyone has the ability to be in the lands as often as others and for me, losing way more than an hour of my precious time in which I can play my characters is very very irritating,


My experience was just from Landing, Ice and Illistim. I'll stand by what I stated for those areas.

I've got no idea what kind of trouble they have brewing out in Sol Haven.

[crazymage]

i just wish we could lose!

[Shari]

Pish, my character brushes her teeth EVERY DAY!

Your characters don't do that?

Gross.










Hehe.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Electrawn
This is minor compared to the world war crap that happened in DR. I hear that produced a wave of cancellations.


Can you elaborate a bit? I haven't heard about what you are referring to.




Originally posted by Soulpieced
Man, all these stupid young critters, I need some post 100 stuff :whistle:


Try soloing a vathor. Then post a log :)

[FinisWolf]

:medieval:

I R B KiCkIn` ur Azz's!

:medieval:

:lol:

Finis

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
If you are young avoid the landing inside and out. My paladin got wiped out for walking outside the Inn.

I'm sure that this will be the stuff that dark elven sorcerer dreams are made of, but I get grouchy when the same old tired we must obliterate the light vs dark stuff gets trotted out and the GMs get their rocks off watching mass destruction.

This is a holiday that I had planned on doing some work with my characters, now I get to ring them back and forth between safe areas.

Maybe I've just played this game for too long and the favoritism and gag factors of the Terate quest have forever jaded me? Maybe I have a feeling that Lothwynn is heavily involved in this and I'm still irate with him over the "digging" on the WD and his blatant disregard for the feelings of the customers that were affected by his "tweaking" of said walls from one cruise to the next.

I'm sure for some this is their chance to demonstrate that they are GM material and to do their big RPing auditions. For me it's just another ill-planned, tired, gore and slaughter fest.

Oh, Vaalor and Zul Logoth are "safe". Getting there is another issue entirely. WTG folks.

I haven't read the whole thread, I confess, but I echo this sentiment. I'm tired of quests being the same damn thing. I realize GMs have more time to run quests and the like over holidays, but I also recognize the fact that there are a lot of people who don't care to participate in them by adding to the body count. I'd like to see a quest that hinges on story telling instead of mass death.

-M

edited to add this after I *did* read the thread:


Originally posted by Ilvane
I never understood the whole "It's a story line I don't want to be involved" thing.

Think of it as it is your world you are living in. Your town gets attacked by a bunch of nasties. You wouldn't go off to another place because the enemy was attacking your family and town, would you? It affects your life, of course..even if you don't like invasions..it's like having a war. You can't predict or control those, usually.

What a person does SHOULD always has consequences on a story. For every action - there is an opposite and equal reaction; the same holds in stories, though you don't always see the entire spectrum of those reactions. That was why the other game I worked on had a dedicated story telling department whose job it was to watch characters.

You can't just make scripts and run through them as GS GMs tend to do (in my experience). You need to watch people's reactions and make the quest react to those reactions, while also furthering the aim in your "script". It's basic storytelling. Otherwise, you get people who just don't care, or worse, try to break the storyline.

(two Ms don't make a right!)


[Edited on Tue, September th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I never understood the whole "It's a story line I don't want to be involved" thing.

Think of it as it is your world you are living in. Your town gets attacked by a bunch of nasties. You wouldn't go off to another place because the enemy was attacking your family and town, would you? It affects your life, of course..even if you don't like invasions..it's like having a war. You can't predict or control those, usually.

The point is that there isn't anything that anybody in the entire game that's not a GM can possibly to do have even the slightest influence on things.

Since you're making comparisons to RL, let's say terrorists under Bin Laden's control invaded New York. Sure there really isn't a whole lot you as an individual could do, but even if you went out and killed 1 terrorist, that would be 1 less terrorist on their side. If everyone killed 1 terrorist, that would be a whole lot less terrorists.

If that situation were to apply in GS and you killed 1 terrorist, what would happen? Another terrorist would just magically spawn in their place. And then there's the fact that the terrorist you would have killed turns out to be bullet proof, and all your bullets just bounce off him harmlessly. Then he'd chop your head off because even your handheld nuclear bomb has no effect on him.

The difference is that if that were the case in RL, the terrorists would become permanent residents of New York and we'd be under their control.

In GS, they'll eventually just magically disappear, and it will be because Bin Laden pressed his "terrorist despawn" button, not because you or anybody else drove them off.

Roleplaying something out is one thing, because to me, RP is ad-libing a situation. When everything from start to end is pre-determined, ad-libs are out of the question, and with that, so is any type of real (as in not just pretending you're involed when you're really not shit, no matter what you or anybody else does) RP.

If kobolds invaded the bank (which they have before), it wouldn't make one shit's worth of difference if every single person in GS was inside the bank to defend, because the GM already decided that the bank would be robbed, and there isn't shit anybody can do about it. Despite the fact that there were 8,000 people defending the bank, 1 kobold still manages to rob the place because that's what the GM decided was going to happen.

That is why Gemstone storylines are a joke. Roleplay is about how your character would react to any given situation, and the effects and reactions your actions generate, responding to those reactions, etc. When your actions in those situations literally mean nothing, the fun is lost, and people play games to have fun.

Right now Solhaven has been taken over by a bunch of statues with god mode turned on, and until a GM decides to turn god mode off, Solhaven will remain under god mode control. You could round up every single character in GS's entire history to combat these statues and it won't have any effect on shit unless the GM lets it.

Maybe that will help you understand the whole '"It's a story line I don't want to be involved" thing.'

[Sweets]

I love the invasion and my character is only 6 at the moment. The whole 'dark times' is making it easy to meet folk my own level and have a bit of fun. Drinking in the temple. Carousing the gambling hall. Betting to see who can make it to Helga's and back with more drinks. Load up on deeds and go with it. So what if we can't kill some critters. I also found out about the jackels in Nighthaven the wrong way. Oh, and thanks Linsha for the advice on worshipping incorrectly.:lol: I love em! I love having a more roleplay approach to the game even if she isn't a hero. She's just a little spoiled brat trying to wait it out. Yeah the deaths suck but it's not like you lose your character. A sense of humor could go a long way in this time of Elanthia.

[Asha]

I remember when the landing was set on fire during my first invasion. Some scary guy flew across the sky with his forces and my character was terrified.
He hid under a table with some elf girl for like 2 hours.

Now, years later, it's different. He's usually found dragging in dead people from the front line.

[Sean of the Thread]

I remember my character hiding in the pawn shop among other places during invasions. Then I realized it was much more fun to go watch and steal loot.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Sweets
I love the invasion and my character is only 6 at the moment. The whole 'dark times' is making it easy to meet folk my own level and have a bit of fun. Drinking in the temple. Carousing the gambling hall. Betting to see who can make it to Helga's and back with more drinks. Load up on deeds and go with it. So what if we can't kill some critters. I also found out about the jackels in Nighthaven the wrong way. Oh, and thanks Linsha for the advice on worshipping incorrectly.:lol: I love em! I love having a more roleplay approach to the game even if she isn't a hero. She's just a little spoiled brat trying to wait it out. Yeah the deaths suck but it's not like you lose your character. A sense of humor could go a long way in this time of Elanthia.

I like this outlook! Positivity towards what the people do at GS could possibly encourage them to do more.

Don't get me wrong there are tons of things to bitch at but we keep paying don't we? (well most do that post here)

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Tromp]

[4a6c1]

What the hell are these things?

...

A jackal-headed onyx statue gives Jihna a hard, stony stare, then suddenly halts its movement.

[Asha]

They are a problem to anyone who fucks with them in anyway.

[4a6c1]

Ok so umm....being in the same room with them type of fuck with or umm, hitting with pointy sword type of fuck with? I'd like to not die by minions on my side. Again. kthnx.

[Sean]

To me invasions became a wasted cause when the new death mechanics rolled in. Not that theres anything majorly bad about dying but theres something highly iritating about dying because another player did something stupid like open implode, major ewave, meteor swarm, cone the unconeable, etc. and then having to pay my time for it.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Tijay]

[DeV]

Originally posted by crazymage
i just wish we could lose! Seriously.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
What the hell are these things?

...

A jackal-headed onyx statue gives Jihna a hard, stony stare, then suddenly halts its movement.

Those things are what killed me nicely and then patrolled around the damned triage tent so just sticking your head out meant getting dragged back in.

Fun times.:rolleyes:

[Xandalf]

Those statues sure are cool.

[Skirmisher]

I must take issue with those that imply that by not enjoying myself in an invasion where death simply from trying to escape a two room tent is not only a possibility but extremely likely I am somehow not rp'ing.

I personally AM roleplaying. I find those that take death so lightly as to run right out into a nearly assured death to be the ones not roleplaying.

I think if Death was made a slightly more big deal people would not ignore it as if they stubbed a toe or something.

So my character does not wish to place herself in a position where she will most likely die without so much as even getting a chance to get off a spell wich would not have any effect anyway from what I'm told.

I don't even like to talk while dead as it makes no sense to me and my character is always extremely appreciatve to those that help her when she is felled. I find all the people laughing and joking or holding extended conversations while dead to make no sense and only takes away from what should be an important happening in a characters lifespan.

I found the ideas given by the GM in the officials thread lacking and dismissive and was let down to have my time during a holiday weekend of anticipated playing cut short by an invasion that onlythose probably at least twice my levels or beyond (or of course those aligned to those deities) have a real chance to even survive.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Skirmisher]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Sweets
A sense of humor could go a long way in this time of Elanthia.Like when you buy a hamburger at McDonald's and the guy takes a shit on your all-beef pattie. Just laugh it off!

Seriously though: Is it really all that horrible? No, of course not. That doesn't mean that it's good or that we should timidly tolerate it.

[FinisWolf]

So diety this, and diety that ...

... I continue to hear how being aligned to some diety will get you by ... what diety, and what should I expect?

For example, I have a whole said total of 3 aligned characters, one to Voln, one to Zelia, and my last to V'Tull. Do any of these cut it? And if so, does this mean they can just walk around in the middle of the converts and such?

Finis

Note: I know for a fact my Voln aligned char can't, he slaughtered to damn many of em.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by FinisWolf]

[Leetahkin]

In formerly Solhaven now Nighthaven, the statues supposedly do not attack anyone aligned to a Lornon god. There have been some instances otherwise, but very few.

Entress runs around that town doing what she hopes is irritating the statues (she follows a lesser god). But they also handed her head to her last night when she was attempting to kill a Sheruvian in town. She attacked, was in rt, the damn statue fixated on her and killed her before she could move.

[Gigantuous]

A good half of my deaths so far has been because I didn't look at the critter list well enough, ran in, multistriked, stuck in 12+ second RT in offensive....and then got pwnd by converts/sentinels.

The other half being from the big bad demon things.

And once from Morvule the power tripper.

On a plus note, I got a new strongest foe! (A V'tullian elder, which may not be tough to some of you, but for me and the guy that I was working with to bring it down, it was a battle and a half).

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Showal
I heard the reason invaisions are such high level events are because when they invaid with young creatures, any and every character stronger than the creatures clean up the city within seconds and the younger characters still aren't involved/learning. Making invaisions higher level effects everyone, like an actual siege or invaision would. I don't agree completely with it, but I am without a better solution.

Better solution? Put in mechanics so younger level peeps can snipe stuff with artillery/ranges weapons (Check!), make siege engines that once destroyed result in smaller attackers (capped wizard bolts a siege engine, which results in ten little goblins running out for 20 somethings to attack, and introduce stuff in town (lower level goblins who tunneled in, or mediocre level spies we have to hunt down). Its challenging to tie it all together, but not impossible. I personally like the idea of getting the younger populace to hunt down spies/tunnelers who made it inside the town walls through treachery and stealth.

[Praefection]

Whoever posted about the statues not attacking anyone who worships a Lornon god is correct. They will start lowering their halberds if they plan on attacking you, otherwise they'll stomp off.

[Shari]

>profile jesae
>
Name: Jesae

Race: Sylvankind Gender: Female
Age: immature (35)
Clan: Lassaran D'ahranal
She appears to be immature and shorter than average.
She has large crystal green eyes and fair skin.
She has waist length, wavy silver blonde hair divided into several elegantly twisted sections and adorned with some glittering dark emerald hairjewels.
She has a dainty face, an upturned nose and small pointed ears.
Follower of Ivas

Quote: "Wanna play?"








Was beheaded last night by one of the statues.

I'm broken. :(

[Praefection]

I'm not sure why they cut your head off, since Ivas is techincally 'evil' but then again I don't know what the hell I'm talking about most of the time.

[Leetahkin]

This is a repeat from in this thread, but Ent's guy follows Ivas. He was attacked after he glanced at the statue. I don't know, if you ignore the statue, does it still attack?

He hasn't been around to test it.

I also heard through bits and pieces that it's 4 of the Lornon gods specifically that won't be attacked. But I don't know which four.

[Warriorbird]

This was (and is still at times, I imagine, though I'm not playing GS currently) a very fun and interactive quest where players have influenced the course of things. It's just run about two and a half years too long. I'm glad that it seems like it will conclude before I get back.

[Warriorbird]

"I also heard through bits and pieces that it's 4 of the Lornon gods specifically that won't be attacked. But I don't know which four. "

The four Arkati of the Dark Alliance I'd assume: Sheru, Mularos, V'tull, and Luukos. I don't believe it is supposed to attack Lornon in general apart from that unless they are in Voln or some such.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"I also heard through bits and pieces that it's 4 of the Lornon gods specifically that won't be attacked. But I don't know which four. "

The four Arkati of the Dark Alliance I'd assume: Sheru, Mularos, V'tull, and Luukos. I don't believe it is supposed to attack Lornon in general apart from that unless they are in Voln or some such.

He's currently trying to get through col in that <blasted> town. Maybe it is just the four you mentioned that won't be attacked.

[Sweets]

When life gives me lemons, I like to make lemonade.

It's has always been this way with me. I wasn't trying to demean anyone's opinion of the invasion, just sprouting off my Pollyanna attitude. Yes Skirmisher, death sometimes should be taken more seriously in gemstone. I usually avoid it as much as possible but sometimes I like to get silly with it.
Now if someone shat in my cheeseburger, Pollyanna would go right out the window. Cheeseburgers are sacred.:smilegrin:

[Edited on 6/9/2005 by Sweets]

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Janarth

Originally posted by Showal
I heard the reason invaisions are such high level events are because when they invaid with young creatures, any and every character stronger than the creatures clean up the city within seconds and the younger characters still aren't involved/learning. Making invaisions higher level effects everyone, like an actual siege or invaision would. I don't agree completely with it, but I am without a better solution.

Better solution? Put in mechanics so younger level peeps can snipe stuff with artillery/ranges weapons (Check!), make siege engines that once destroyed result in smaller attackers (capped wizard bolts a siege engine, which results in ten little goblins running out for 20 somethings to attack, and introduce stuff in town (lower level goblins who tunneled in, or mediocre level spies we have to hunt down). Its challenging to tie it all together, but not impossible. I personally like the idea of getting the younger populace to hunt down spies/tunnelers who made it inside the town walls through treachery and stealth.

Janarth, those are awesome suggestions. :thumbsup:

-M

[Miss X]

A cold, hissing voice echoes from above, "Children of the Planes - demons, horrors, all - I have no more need of you. Your role has been ssserved in the ritual. Ravage this world all you wish. I will call upon you when needed."


Was that game wide or just in Illistim?

[Stunseed]

Game wide.

[HouseofElves]

The statues really shouldn't be attacking people who follow Ivas because I know Fash followers are safe as are Eorginans. So I dunno what the deal is.

And they are the ONLY creatures who have some kind of friend/foe system. Any other invasion creature who is in the room with you will attack you regardless of your CONVERT status.

Hope this helps, guys. If I can answer anything else for you lemme know.

[Miss X]

We're getting so pwnd in Illistim. Stuff is all over town! :cry:

[Ilvane]

I hear Icemule is bad too..I guess what is the point of logging in if I can't survive..grr.

-A

[Ilvane]

Yep, logged in died..trying to RP..not really working well with all the chaos..Ah well..:)

-A

[Drew]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Yep, logged in died..trying to RP..not really working well with all the chaos..Ah well..:)

-A


Haha, knowing Ilvane's level I was rather unhappy when Chiv got smashed right in front of her and she just kept getting hit :lol:

[Ilvane]

I did pretty well into I ran into some abyran'ra..:cough:

-A

[Snapp]

Okay, I logged in and bit it hard by one of those things Ilvane mentioned swinging a bloody human spine. :weird:

[SpunGirl]

Argh! I'm like 900 to level and I can't. :cry:

-K

[Kitsun]

Not on the airship but a friend sent me a clip. Angel of Eternity from the future to save the day! WOOHOO!

You see Lady Sylvirria Azarielle' the Angel of Eternity.
She appears to be youthful. She has half-lidded misty grey eyes and pure marble-white skin. She has waist-length, purple-sheened deep ebon hair flowing down her shoulders in a smooth, glossy wave. She has a delicate face, a sharp nose and high cheekbones.
She has a pair of arched black-feathered wings sprouting from her back.
She is in good shape.
She is holding a sharply-curved black crystal scythe wrapped with sinuous threads of silver around the shaft in her right hand and a glittering white crystal scythe twined with lustrous golden knotwork in her left hand.

[HouseofElves]

She isn't saving the day...she's creating balance. I like her. She can live. Or...whatever angels do.

/nods

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Artha
Sounds like it's just about Deus Ex Machina time to me.
Originally posted by Kitsun
Angel of Eternity from the future to save the day!:yes:

[Asha]

I'd cirtainly hit the angel btch.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I hear Icemule is bad too..I guess what is the point of logging in if I can't survive..grr.

-A

This is precisely what some of us have been irritated about. Login and blam, dead. Yeah, that's fun.

[Leetahkin]

I really enjoyed having my character there to travel with Maluverre and see Ulstram release Sylvirria. I hope to have Ent in the thick of it again tonight.

[FinisWolf]

OMG! People are still crying over this invasion? Please folks, get over it, its a part of GS life ... in RL we had the 9/11, in GS we have this.

Finis

Edited cause I was still asleep ...

[Edited on 9-8-2005 by FinisWolf]

[4a6c1]

No more Nighthaven. :(

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
OMG! People are still crying over this invasion? Please folks, get over it, its a part of GS life ... in RL we had the 9 elven, in GS we have this.I can honestly say this is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board.

[4a6c1]

I like it when Latrinsorm is mean to people. It makes me want to do the dirty in a confession booth.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
I like it when Latrinsorm is mean to people. It makes me want to do the dirty in a confession booth.


:lol2: this makes me want to have a new quote.


-M

[Edited on Wed, September th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[4a6c1]

:devilsmile:

[Warriorbird]

Pity I missed the angel hottie.

[Jolena]

The angel was definately very cool. I looooved her outfit and her scythes were teh hawt.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
OMG! People are still crying over this invasion? Please folks, get over it, its a part of GS life ... in RL we had the 9 elven, in GS we have this.

Finis

OMG! If you don't want to read it then don't!

I'm sure that people here will listen to you about as much as they do on the main boards. :lol:

Comparing an invasion in GS to 911 just leaves me almost speechless. I'll use this gesture to sum up my real feelings. :fu:

[ElanthianSiren]

Well, I guess Angels are no longer OOC at least. Last I heard, they were justified as being Zelia's handmaidens. Now, we have actual angels. Someone missed a QC groove.

-M

I'm starting a cult in GS where we worship some dude that got nailed to a cross shaped item made of wood. Who's down?

- Arkans

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Well, I guess Angels are no longer OOC at least. Last I heard, they were justified as being Zelia's handmaidens. Now, we have actual angels. Someone missed a QC groove.

-M

:lol: Yeah maybe bellychains are next! Don't forget that not long ago you couldn't have anything that was sparkling or resplendent because it wouldn't sparkle in a dark cave.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by TheRoseLady]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Comparing an invasion in GS to 911 just leaves me almost speechless. I'll use this gesture to sum up my real feelings. :fu:

Yes, I have to agree completely. Either simply a thoughtless error or one in extremely poor taste, but neither appropriate in any case.

[Avaia]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Well, I guess Angels are no longer OOC at least. Last I heard, they were justified as being Zelia's handmaidens. Now, we have actual angels. Someone missed a QC groove.

-M

https://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/deities/gosaena.asp

[ElanthianSiren]

Right. Nobody is taking issue with angel like figures. It is that the word "angel" was considered illegal in alterations or anything else for the longest time.

-M

[Artha]

So what happened?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Artha
So what happened? I went to bed. Then when I woke up POOF everything was back to normal. Apparently the statues and demons that were running amok in the streets of nearly every major town decided not to harm or in any way interfere with any non-adventurer.

BUT IT MAKES ELANTHIA MORE REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stunseed]

This quest that is being held sucks total balls.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
I like it when Latrinsorm is mean to people. It makes me want to do the dirty in a confession booth.

It didn't effect me one way or the other ... but glad you got hot ...

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by FinisWolf
OMG! People are still crying over this invasion? Please folks, get over it, its a part of GS life ... in RL we had the 9 elven, in GS we have this.

Finis

OMG! If you don't want to read it then don't!

I'm sure that people here will listen to you about as much as they do on the main boards. :lol:

Comparing an invasion in GS to 911 just leaves me almost speechless. I'll use this gesture to sum up my real feelings. :fu:

Wa wa wa ... I play a RPG fantasy, and never want nothing bad to happen ... wa wa wa.

Gawds forbid there be trouble and strife, and I was not the first to relate this topic to the terrorist attack. Get a grip.

Finis

EDITED: Since more then one has a problem with me, but no other relating to terrorist attacks, it was not meant to offend, so if it did, sorry, was simply the easiest and most more recent thing I could think of to relate strife with strife to. "My Apologies."

[Edited on 9-8-2005 by FinisWolf]

[Terminator X]

Shit. I was getting used to River's Rest being even more quiet than normal :violin:

[Drew]

Anyone in the temple mind telling me what happened after the second crash? I had to log out when the wyrm was flying around.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
EDITED: Since more then one has a problem with me, but no other relating to terrorist attacks, it was not meant to offend, so if it did, sorry, was simply the easiest and most more recent thing I could think of to relate strife with strife to. "My Apologies."

[Edited on 9-8-2005 by FinisWolf]

Sometimes it's best just to STFU. Perhaps you'll realize this is one of those times.

[Praefection]

After the wyrm, hmm... I thought I had everything logged but I didn't. I do know it dropped a heart which was the fourth item to open up the final area. From my understanding Charna got a scythe from the angel and used it on the main evil guy. She swung ONCE and it was over. The angel came and talked a little and them Ulstram came and talked a little
more and we got sent back.

Edit:because I'm tired the griffon sword was tossed into the abyss where it was supposed to be and balance was returned to elanthia. Biggest pile of bullshit I've ever read.

Oh no, the bad guys are winning so let's create a neutral thingie so they don't win and the good guys still do. Bite my ass. Grr.

I do know it's posted on the official boards. And since my auto log didn't turn on the last time I can't post it here. Sorry!

[Edited on 07-18-2003 by Praefection]

[Stunseed]

What time did it finally end? After the game crashed the second time, knowing I had to be up in 3 hours, I gave up.

[Praefection]

Umm, midnight my time? I think, so around 2am eastern or later. I don't remember exactly.

[Leetahkin]

I went to bed around 1:30am eastern time, after playing with the pendant we all got. So, it ended a little before that.

What a long freakin night.

[Fallen]

All I can say is that the DA got no staff support. They should have had some sort of quest along side of the Resistance.

[Amaron]

Ugh all the ooc idiots should have been blown up by the avitars...

My biggest complaint is that there were so many folks there JUST for any end prize.

I had never seen half those people ever in game.

We got on the ship and someone asked me who Morvule was.

If you are going to join a quest at the end at least have a clue about what the heck is going on.

Someone then whispered to me whats happening and why are we going on this ship and where are we going and who is this angel everyone is talking about.. just urrrr.

It was very hard for those that had really worked on the quest to get anything done. I f Morvule had come down while we were in the sigil room I would have turned and joined the DA. At least they weren't fighting like the resistance group.



Do not get me wrong I am the first one to include everyone in a quest... but this was ick

The three idiots sitting down and playing who has the most trains and bragging about how many trains that had and who was most powerful should have been killed.

And I almost took out the loud mouth who kept reciting in CAPS! AND TELLING US TO SHUT UP. When she was giving bad advice in the wyrm room and wouldn't be quiet herself.

It was a very frustrating end to three years work.

I love the angel and the Goseana spin on it all. Well done to the NPC's gotta love and hate them all.

Now I hope we can leave Solhaven in peace a bit.

J

[HouseofElves]

Hahah, J. You want to join the DA, I know you do!

And don't cry too much for us, we'll get ours Fallen.

Good or bad. = )

[HouseofElves]

Originally posted by Praefection
because I'm tired the griffon sword was tossed into the abyss where it was supposed to be and balance was returned to elanthia. Biggest pile of bullshit I've ever read.

Oh no, the bad guys are winning so let's create a neutral thingie so they don't win and the good guys still do. Bite my ass. Grr.

[Edited on 07-18-2003 by Praefection]

Well actually the quest has kinda been planned out like that since it started. People were given vague dreams of something like this happening, an angel coming and restoring the grey.

I just didn't know that "balance" would feel so much like the good guys winning. Even though all their avatars are dead (and have this force thing going on) it still doesn't feel very balanced.

[peam]

Darkies?

Wow.

[Amaron]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
Hahah, J. You want to join the DA, I know you do!

And don't cry too much for us, we'll get ours Fallen.

Good or bad. = )


With all the idiots who had no idea what was happening arguing and no one listening to anyone, if my lass had been asked to join the DA at that moment I would have been tempted to let her.

LOL

J

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Amaron
I love the angel and the Goseana spin on it all.If Gosaena really did become involved in any way, I'm going to be extremely upset. If the GMs had some random non-Gosaenan angel show up, in complete disregard for all previous theological documentation, I'll only be mildly upset.

Which is about as good an outcome as I can think of for this Godforsaken saga.

[Amaron]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Amaron
I love the angel and the Goseana spin on it all.If Gosaena really did become involved in any way, I'm going to be extremely upset. If the GMs had some random non-Gosaenan angel show up, in complete disregard for all previous theological documentation, I'll only be mildly upset.

Which is about as good an outcome as I can think of for this Godforsaken saga.

Nothing was random....

There were visions from the start 3 years back of an angel ( Charna posted hers on the main boards) and I know of at least one major Goseana follower who had one.

Maluverre has been talking about the different hands ( sects of followers I believe I hope I got that right kinda tired right now) all summer and his involvement in them.

When we watched the angel-like being awaken and the combining of the three it all made sense...

So it was not random. It was alluded to at the very start of the GSS and Maluverre's involvement in the hands has been knowledge for awhile.

I believe a lot of the logs of the event are posted in the GSS folder on the main boards.

Anyway she was a wonderful NPC.

J

[Avaia]

Originally posted by LatrinsormIf Gosaena really did become involved in any way, I'm going to be extremely upset.

Prepare yourself for some being upset, then. Sylvirria was a servant of Gosaena.

[Jolena]

I have to second Amaron's post. I am the last person to exclude others from a quest, as I too have felt excluded at times, but in this particular instance there were SO SO many folks (one GM I know said 200, but I think that's an exxageration perhaps) on that ship and in the temple that had NO idea what was going on, why we were there, who the Angel was, who Morvule, Eryael, Zerroth or Draezir were, and were simply interested in getting the final gift that was given to us. It made it incredibly difficult to enjoy something that many of us worked for 3 plus years to get to. Also, damnit, WHEN are the simutronics people going to start making it impossible to have groups larger then 20 people per, so that the game doesn't crash when a group of 200 folks walks into a room together and starts moving. :grr:

[Amaron]

Jolena,
A big problem was the arches we all had to walk through individually. If we could have gone through as a group it would not have been so bad.

J

[Leetahkin]

I was really excited to actually have Ent a part of something important, only to not be able to see a thing, much less get a swing off before all the critters were dead in the beginning of the temple. And then I couldn't touch the Wyrm.

It seemed that spell casters were the main ones needed in there, as all the puzzles dealt with casting magic :(

And I was shocked that there was someone there with only 17 trains. At that young of a train, I wouldn't have dared step foot into something like that.

I was rather disappointed as a whole.

[StrayRogue]

So what WAS the final gift? A phoenix down? Some gil??

[HouseofElves]

Go to any of the main temples in Elanthia, in their sanctuary you should PRAY and get a pendant. Turning it switches it from dark, light and neutral and if you repeadtely STARE at it you will see the backgrounds of all the NPCs. It's kinda neat. There are other scripts too.


News 2 76

[StrayRogue]

Available for everyone?

[HouseofElves]

Yup! Only one per account tho.

[Jolena]

Did anyone else get one of these messages last night? I got it about 30 minutes to an hour after the quest was done and over with and have NO clue what it means.


For a moment, you glimpse a beautiful tapestry of silver threads -- glimmering and shifting as they ceaselessly weave back and forth in an intricate, eternal dance of incomparable beauty. Then the brilliant silver pattern fades away, leaving you with only a profound sense of change.

[HouseofElves]

Yeah, everyone got it.

[Jolena]

What is it? And what does it mean?

[HouseofElves]

I guess it's the cycle finally being made complete and us as adventerers knowing that the world is forever different. Or some BS like that.


heh, that would be my guess at least.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Jolena
(one GM I know said 200, but I think that's an exxageration perhaps)


Sidrik did a PSInet locate of me and counted over 200 in the main cabin of the airship, so I would imagine that GM is right.

[Ardwen]

whats the saying,

Once an ass.....



Ardwen

[HouseofElves]

You know, generally I think it's fairly tactless to post private U2U messages. That is why we have such a device, not to air our dirty laundry but...that is pretty sad. Though I can't say I'm surprised.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

When the moron actually references the U2U himself like he's bragging about it (he must be SO proud), why not share it :)

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
When the moron actually references the U2U himself like he's bragging about it (he must be SO proud), why not share it :)

Has nothing to do with being proud, simply letting her know she has a U2U from me. I said what I wanted to say. Teh eNd.

Finis

[Jolena]

I think you need :help: with your anger management Finis. Seriously.


Back on topic, I think that perhaps that message I posted is a exp modifier. Going to check it out tonight when I go to hunt off my CON loss.

[HouseofElves]

I dunno but let us know. That would be like the fifth RPA I'm just sitting on...stupid quest.

[Sex Shoggoth]

Heeey, lookie. Issa nother long post from meee. I can't sleep! Blame insomnia and caffeeeeine!



I'm sure that this will be the stuff that dark elven sorcerer dreams are made of, but I
get grouchy when the same old tired we must obliterate the light vs dark stuff gets trotted out and the GMs get their rocks off watching mass destruction.


We don't, really. I don't want to piss off players.



That is why Gemstone storylines are a joke. Roleplay is about how your character would react to any given situation, and the effects and reactions your actions generate, responding to those reactions, etc. When your actions in those situations literally mean nothing, the fun is lost, and people play games to have fun.


Sometimes, characters don't have control. If characters had control of every possible angle in a storyline, it'd essentially be an automated quest, or at the very least, not something as epic as the quest under discussion.

GSS was very fluid in its inception, so fluid that I didn't even write a script, I just had a concept and ran with it. Characters have influenced multiple plot points and just plain regular portions of the quest where I didn't expect a specific type of reaction from them and I just ran along with them. As a GM, it's one of the most exhilarating (and sometimes extremely stressful and nail-biting) moments when you hand your entire storyline over to a player and let them take it wherever they will. I imagine it's even more fun for the players.

As things progress, however, you do need to concentrate on things that have developed and things kind of get set in stone as the end approaches. That's just how things go. I do not think that's a bad thing, personally.

I obviously can't speak for other GMs on the points you've made regarding character actions and GM intent -- it is true that they *can* do things that take no note of player's actions or goals. I'm just trying to remind you that there are GMs that do watch, and do take such actions into account, and it's not just me.



If Gosaena really did become involved in any way, I'm going to be extremely upset. If the GMs had some random non-Gosaenan angel show up, in complete disregard for all previous theological documentation, I'll only be mildly upset.


Huh. I went into this mildly on the other boards, but I might as well go into it here as well.

There's no one more concerned about Gosaena's image in game than I am, and no theologies were violated when creating this character. There was one person who really had Gosaena pegged, concept-wise, over any other GM I've known, and that was Aelsidhe. She was the one who wrote most of what's in the Gods doc about Gosaena with editing by Varevice. She was, eventually, going to write some form of detailed history and make a very large temple (not the one in Solhaven, which she helped build).

She and I talked over aaaalot of concepts regarding her theology and her followers, and that's where the seed of that concept began. It was a discussion about an old item -- those auction wings, and the fact that one of her angels *spoke* (they're supposed to be nasty silent death-reaper things, and you'll often see them depicted as faceless in temples she or I built), so she explained alot of fun stuff that made her much more interesting in terms of mortal followers.

So when things seemed to be turning towards an ending where the bad guys would win, the angel concept was introduced into a side-storyline that made perfect sense for it -- the original side storyline came from people trying to contact an NPC elf in the Ta'Illistim portion of the quest, and Maluverre was born -- he was decidedly neutral in his stance. Since his history and mannerisms were fairly subtle and there was a push for more 'neutral' NPCs, I kept him around, and then Volierre got tossed into the mix for people who wanted some mysterious crap and some backstory to deduce within all the fighting. The two had enough subtlety in their personalities to bring a Gosaenan angle to the quest, although you never really knew that they were Gosaenans until near the end. Which is really how it should be.

Frankly, I never intended it to end this way. I was expecting the good guys to win. They didn't. So neutrality stepped in and did what neutrality does -- restore things to order. I think I did a fairly good job in portraying that neutrality through subtle buildup and clues dotted throughout the storyline. I don't do horribly dramatic things without a solid reason. I wouldn't just pull an angel out of my ass, y'know? ;)

~ V

[HouseofElves]

Thanks, I think that clears up some stuff. I totally thought you did, in fact, pull an angel out of your butt.

Nah, seriously, I liked the way it turned out overall. I would have rather the angel actually did more, but I understand the reasoning over having it be PC led at the end.

Now I wait for the horrible disease that was in the temple to consume the flesh of the Resistance members who entered. Mwhahaha.

[Asha]

Muaaahahahah.
Damn you bastards who make it so late the English can't join in the end game.
Disease should rot your peepees and flowering gardens.

:fu:

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Drayal]

[TheRoseLady]

After having read V's post, it makes me think about trying to get involved the next time around. I don't know if this is practical, but is there a place where the recent "happenings" of an event get chronicled so people can get a grip on what is transpiring? What I mean is that if I am not there from the beginning for something is there an ongoing cliff notes version to keep folks interested and involved?

[Fallen]

I suggest the Quests, Sagas, and Events folder on the official boards. There is a subfolder there for just about every major quest and event that takes place. Even if you are anti-establishment, the people involved are always willing to provide logs incase you miss some of the action.

[Drew]

My major hope for the quests to come is for new main characters as far as PCs. No Mekthros, no Charna, no everyone else involved in the GSS. If I keep on seeing the same faces involved in the core of every quest I'm going to scream.

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Drew]

[Miss X]

I agree with you Drew in many ways. I do think that issue is blown out of proportion though. We all know there are certain people who go out of their way to be involved in any GM related activity. However, I don't think the majority of those people want to exclude everyone else. People (including myself a lot of the time) can be intimidated by those people, but the rest of us just need to make more of an effort to get in there when things are going on.

The other thing is... Those people are obviously well known to the GMs, for their roleplaying skills or whatever and naturally they want their story lines to succeed so why not place them in the path of those that can be trusted to pick them up and run with them? That's my take on it only, as I have no clue what goes on but it's my logical conclusion.

It's definitely not fair a lotof the time and I'd argue with anyone who tried to say different, but if you want to be involved in something it takes a bit of effort. It won't just land in your lap so get out there and force you way in! ;)

[Jolena]

Exactly CT. I have been frustrated in the past and still get frustrated at times at the inevability of the same main PC's being at the head of quests, however if you honestly try to look at it from a non-emotional and more logical point of view, its easy to see *why* those few PC's always are in the forefront of storylines. They are generally very well RP'd characters who love to introduce their own intricate twist into the quests and interact very easily with the NPC's present.

Having been involved heavily in the Reiver quest, purely by stupid luck and chance, I can tell you that the majority of being able to *be* in that type of situation is your ability to interact easily with the NPC's. Don't be afraid to speak to them, don't be afraid to voice your opinion, throw your own personal character twist into it, somehow relate it to your own background, etc. That helps tremendously in being involved in these things. With the GSS, I struggled for about a year to seriously get involved in it due to feeling intimidated by the regular PC's involvement and out of anxiety that I could not 'match up' to their standards in order to get the attention of the NPC's/GM's. I found to my surprise that most of it is just feeling comfortable enough to be bold. Since then, especially in the past year of this saga, I've found myself in multiple RP instances with Charna, Mekthros, Wulfhen, Siwas, Kateerina, Valicar, and many many others that I just don't want to take the time to list here.

Not all of those instances of RP were when an NPC was about. Some, in fact, *most* of those times were just done when we were discussing the GSS, or when my character had a reason to try to gather information from one of them. Being a Lumnis follower, Jolena is very interested in knowledge and all sides of the story, so it fit perfectly for her. After I took that first step, I found that they are in fact 'approachable' and very interested in RPing and including you if you take the time to make an effort and have a valid reason for it.

That being said, and having been in their postion with Jolena in the Reiver storyline, I can also say that it can be a tad frustrating and stressful when you are the main spotlight of a quest. Jolena couldn't have a moment alone when the Reiver quest first started up. Everyone and their dog were constantly trying to get her attention, locating her, thinking to her, latching onto her when they saw her, basically anything they could do to get involved. At first it was flattering and I enjoyed the attention. Then as time went on, it became a tad annoying and I had to stop myself from reacting poorly and just remember that I have been in that position and remember wanting to do the same thing that they are doing to me now. The problem with that is that you get those who, in my opinion anyhow, don't really have a valid reason to latch onto your character, to seek you out so vigorously, etc. That for me is where the true frustration lies.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be afraid to involve yourself in quests by interacting with the main PC's involved with it, or the NPC's, but make sure that there is a true reason for your character to be involved. Storylines are great, everyone wants to be a 'star' or have a GM's attention, but there will always be another one to come, and it will be much more rewarding in my opinion, if you involve your PC with a true and valid reason that relates to his/her own personal storyline/background, rather then just jumping in there to just be there.

Just my rather long-winded two cents.

[Fallen]

Having been involved heavily in the Reiver quest, purely by stupid luck and chance, I can tell you that the majority of being able to *be* in that type of situation is your ability to interact easily with the NPC's. Don't be afraid to speak to them, don't be afraid to voice your opinion, throw your own personal character twist into it, somehow relate it to your own background, etc. That helps tremendously in being involved in these things. >>

This bares repeating. The same people are involved with quests because they are the people who spend the most time TRYING to be involved. They are there when the NPCs show up, they know all the background information, they actively work to get themselves involved.

If you want in, be there. You can't bat if you never step up to the plate and wait for a pitch.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
After having read V's post, it makes me think about trying to get involved the next time around. I don't know if this is practical, but is there a place where the recent "happenings" of an event get chronicled so people can get a grip on what is transpiring? What I mean is that if I am not there from the beginning for something is there an ongoing cliff notes version to keep folks interested and involved?

It's a waste of time, believe me.

[Stunseed]

< The same people are involved with quests because they are the people who spend the most time TRYING to be involved. >

Agreed, but some "and we know who" of these folks need to attempt to get others involved. Stunseed's pretty involved in the Reiver quest, and I as a player made the effort to get others involved in it as well.

I throw my lot in with Drew. As great as the same dozen people RP, the same people over and over are getting old. In the early stages in this quest, I strongly believe the people involved should find someone to get involved as well. I'm sure there's a hundred and twenty four ( hyperbole, I know, but it's to drive a point ) Dark Evil Sorcerors who Mekthros could try to take under his wing to get involved. Personally, I think I would take pride in developing someone's RP by including them in the experience. For those in ALAE, it's like seeing other people silently "WOW" as they walk into a room you created.

Sorry for the ramble.

[Fallen]

I'm sure there's a hundred and twenty four ( hyperbole, I know, but it's to drive a point ) Dark Evil Sorcerors who Mekthros could try to take under his wing to get involved. >>

I would say he does this to an extent. The man is a mentor, and i've seen him "slumming" alot with people like Hadya, Sygel, Uniana, ect.

[Warriorbird]

All I can say is that the DA got no staff support. They should have had some sort of quest along side of the Resistance.'

-Fallen

All I can say is OMG wtf are you talking about, Fallen.

And, err, Elanthian Siren/Latrin, you clearly dunno much about Gosaena.

[Fallen]

All I can say is OMG wtf are you talking about, Fallen. >>

I mean at the end of the GSS, they were given an orb to watch, and got to stand there while they lost. No setup to try to save some of the High Priests, no chance to interfere with the Resistance, no NPC involvement. Nothing. They just sat there.

[Warriorbird]

All in all, I think this was an incredible quest on many levels. It had a lot of player effected events, but clearly the flow of things grew tighter as time went on. I wish it had ended a lot sooner (say two years or so sooner), but now it has, and people can appreciate the various things it meant to them, and the character development that was spawned.

Elanthia can move on to new stories.




(and Stay, arbitrer of all value, can let us know which ones are worth it or not... because he can, y'know, see the future)

[Warriorbird]

I mean at the end of the GSS, they were given an orb to watch, and got to stand there while they lost.

I think there was more than that involved from what I heard... and the DA's had tremendous amounts to do in this quest, far more than the Resistance, I'd say, certainly more than any Neutral parties.

[Fallen]

I think HouseofElves was there, perhaps she could clear it up. From what I heard from some DA people through IMs, they were a bit miffed about it.

[StrayRogue]

It's very simple. These big super quests follow the same pattern. Look at the WoN, or Thurfels. They stretched on WAYYYYYY longer than was palatable. Many players came and went yet the quest's still seem to concentrate on a few key folk. Which is fab. However when such a thing is concentrated on such a wide area of effect, it becomes a nuisance.

Now I remember them saying WoN and GSS would be no Thurfels, in regards to length or exclusion or a whole host of other problems that Thurfels' suffered. WELL WTF?! It seems they fell in the same trap. And I'm not suprised. When you're having your ass licked 24/7 I'd see no reason to change what I'm doing either.

[Jolena]

Personally, when I found out that they had to just sit and watch through a scrying orb, I was not only completely ashamed at the Resistance for being what I'm sure was the 'laughing stock' of Elanthia for their behavior that night, but I was also sorry for the DA. I think, after all the tremendous amount of work that they have put in, they should have had something else to do as well.

Having not been present however, I do not know for sure that they were not given what they considered to be satisfactory for their end involvement. As for no GM support, Fallen. I have to say that I completely disagree. Mainly due to their organization, loyalty to their cause and ability to work together well despite their differences, I felt like they had quite a bit *more* NPC involvement on their side then we did on ours. Just my opinion however, and I'm sure there are members of both sides who would disagree.

[Asha]

And I'll move to America.
That stops me having to be awake at 3am for the beginning of the action.
Oh wait. . I don't give a shit about any saga or event like this anyhow. I play GS to murder critters in many interesting ways.
Train, then murder different creatures in decreasingly dfferent ways.

[Fallen]

As for no GM support, Fallen. I have to say that I completely disagree. >>

My comment was only in regards to the last event of the quest. They dropped the ball.

[Jolena]

I have to ask then Drayal, why post in a thread dedicated to the quests and sagas that you personally don't care about being involved in? Not that I'm saying you shouldn't, but it's curious to me why you would take the time to post about something that you have already professed not to care about for your game enjoyment.

[Warriorbird]

I'd see no reason to change what I'm doing either.

I didn't participate but I heard great things about the recent reiver quest. I think you'll see something of a backlash towards longterm events after the WON problems (Some of the events were great...I loved the Red Rot portion...other still haven't concluded) and the actual event of the GSS's ending reminding people just how darn long it lasted.

I imagine you'll see more stuff like the reiver quest, which I really like the idea of. I think events that stretch a month to MAYBE six are the best.

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Asha]

Originally posted by Jolena
I have to ask then Drayal, why post in a thread dedicated to the quests and sagas that you personally don't care about being involved in? Not that I'm saying you shouldn't, but it's curious to me why you would take the time to post about something that you have already professed not to care about for your game enjoyment.

Just venting my frustrations.
Invasions, sagas and events are hard to keep up with due to the time difference.
I do care about them.
But sometimes it pisses me off so bad to spend all the time I can in game to catch the fun stuff, and then finding it's all over when I wake up the next day.
Another thing, I don't for one second expect Simu to cater specificly (sp) for Brits or any other country, but it's hard not to feel pissed that I missed it.
I don't have the time Wulfen and Morgause do. They must get days off just for sagas! :shrug:

So from now on. I'll try not to care.
No expectations, no dissapointment.
That's why I posted, Jolena.



[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Drayal]

[Stunseed]

< I would say he does this to an extent. The man is a mentor, and i've seen him "slumming" alot with people like Hadya, Sygel, Uniana, ect. >

Agreed, and their core of people are a great group. Also, I did not in any way mean to pick Mekthros out, there are plenty others, he just came first to mind for the whole dark/evil sorceror trend.

I enjoy RP'ing with Mekthros, so if he were to always include himself, I'd be okay with it. Off on a tangent again, I think we need to develop more players/adventurers into roleplayers. Both DA and Resistance could use some new ( not idiotic ) blood in their camps, I think.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Sex Shoggoth
So neutrality stepped in and did what neutrality does -- restore things to order.I think we're having a miscommunication over what exactly "neutral" means. When I think "neutral", I think "Switzerland". Switzerland didn't jump in on the side of Germany once the Battle of Berlin started. It appears to me that you take "neutral" to mean "an agent of balance", as opposed to "an agent of balanced motives".

From the play.net, "In manner, [Gosaena] is silent and impartial." Impartial to me would suggest that if she even deigned to look upon the current goings-on, she would have no reaction. She certainly wouldn't gift one of her followers with enough power to hugely alter current events.

The theology crack was if and only if the angel was completely uninvolved with Gosaena. Thanks for helping clear some stuff up though. :)
Originally posted by Fallen
This bares repeating. The same people are involved with quests because they are the people who spend the most time TRYING to be involved. They are there when the NPCs show up, they know all the background information, they actively work to get themselves involved.

If you want in, be there. You can't bat if you never step up to the plate and wait for a pitch. I don't get why you can't apply this reasoning to merchants/alters.

[ElanthianSiren]

Heh... Latrin wins for posting one of my very first thoughts when I read that.

IMO it's lack of planning. A quest should be planned beginning to end before it's begun with timeframes for each component. It doesn't sound hard, but then you have to take into account free will and that plan (for the things to go the opposite of your ideal), yet still keep the quest on track.

-M

[Fallen]

I don't get why you can't apply this reasoning to merchants/alters. >>

Good point. There are some differences to the two situations, but you have a valid point. It is a bit hypocritical to claim one instance of GM time should have to be hard earned, while another should be given freely.

[HouseofElves]

Originally posted by Fallen
I think HouseofElves was there, perhaps she could clear it up. From what I heard from some DA people through IMs, they were a bit miffed about it.


Yeah. Basically, we had done everything we possibly could as Dark Alliance PCs to the point where our Four simply had to "transmorgification" as Morvule called it the sword and then that was it. They actually did end up changing it completely which is where Morfell stepped in. We had done what we could and now it was up to them.

I really hate to say this but it was probably better for the Dark Alliance to be in a room with nothing more than a scrying orb, otherwise I don't think neutrality would have been the outcome. If you had put us in a temple with the Resistance PCs there would have been an enormous amount of CvC and what would have happened if the DA won? Alternately, the same thing goes for two seperate puzzles. There is a very good chance that the DA could have raced the Resistance in puzzles which would have lead to world dominance for us. Trust me, Morvule's explination of what would happen when they took over the world was something that totally creeped me out.

The Dark Alliance players all *should* have known that from the beginning this was a losing battle. I think sometimes we might have forgotten that but the truth of the matter is, no matter how great and smart and quick and strong we were, evil could not triumph in this way. I know a lot of us were shocked to see that it was balanced restored and not good winning. In fact, several people from the Resistance side claim that it was the DA who really won because our leaders are still alive if even not on this plane of existance. So while it was frustrating to simply watch all of our hard work unravel before our eyes for six hours...there was little to be done. I think give people a few days and they will get over it. Voraveil has been so generous to the Dark Alliance in terms of interactions and story lines so I don't think anyone can complain.

Secondly, Mekthros is a wonderful, complex, amazing character. If it were not for his fatherly (can you believe it?) guidance Uniana would not have been a part of the Dark Alliance. So I truly have no doubts that he will continue to mentor ICly to others. Though I doubt anyone can replace him. We do have a lot of new fresh blood in the DA recently, but it's a moot point as the GSS is over and all we have to share now is our experiences together.

Lastly, as far as quests go I know there has been mentioned two quests of a Mularosian bent from Simucon. I would mostly likely participate in those or any direct threat/concern with Elves but other than that I have no desire for my character to be involved of anything of such epic proportions. I think you will find that true for a lot of people who have invested so much in the GSS. It has done such a wonderful job of defining our characters that I doubt we would want to just jump into anything else so major. Not too mention, I happen to think I was lucky enough to experience some of the coolest stuff through this quest, I dunno what could possibly make me go "Wow" again. Unless it was like....a quest for five Nalea gowns.

Sorry for being so long but I hope that explains some of the mindset. I certainly can't speak for everyone in the DA, but I think this is the general agreement. It's sad, it could have happened differently in terms of how, but it happened and we knew it was coming.

I know some people don't want to keep rehashing this but I think it's going to take a couple of weeks to get over reviewing a four year quest. So if anyone has any other questions I will be glad to try and answer them to the best of my ability or of anyone has an interest in seeing any logs, that can be done too.

^_^

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by HouseofElves]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
transmorgificationYou guys were doomed then, there isn't any corrugated cardboard in Elanthia.

[Warriorbird]

From the play.net, "In manner, [Gosaena] is silent and impartial." Impartial to me would suggest that if she even deigned to look upon the current goings-on, she would have no reaction. She certainly wouldn't gift one of her followers with enough power to hugely alter current events. "

Those are very narrow and old definitions. A lot of work of Aelsidhe's and the Temple of Silence took things in different directions.

Perhaps "Grey" would be a better notion, as Gosaena acted as a third party in this matter, as her vital interests were at stake for a variety of reasons.

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Amaron]

Jolena,

When a member of the DA was on IM with me and told me what they were watching through the orb I was totally embarassed and mortified.

They were stuck on a room where three or four idiots were playing who has more trains and who has more muscles... it was so OOC and she said she pointed it out and the NPC swicthed rooms in the orb for them so they could see something more that OOC crap.

I was very embarassed and finally sat there quietly. And I was serious if the DA had come and said join us... you know you want to... my gal just might have. She was that disgusted with the "good" side and close to taking out a few of the idiots.


Ah well it ended time to move on... she needs to get up to mule and landing more she will miss seeing you about Jolena.

J

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by HouseofElves
transmorgificationYou guys were doomed then, there isn't any corrugated cardboard in Elanthia.

Hysterical referrence! :lol:

[Terminator X]

^

http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_5/illustr/transmogrification.gif

Heh! :)

[HouseofElves]

Hahaha. And Eryael said it was an "ancient arcane term".

rofl

[Viridian]

Originally posted by Praefection
I love those statues. Linsha's sitting in the North Market watching them slaughter people, while she makes thinly veiled comments about ducking. Good fun to pass the time.

Hadya loved when people would ask if the statues would hurt them, she'd wait till they just got smooshed and then say.

"Yes."

I'm going to miss those statues. :sniffle:

[Sex Shoggoth]

Now I remember them saying WoN and GSS would be no Thurfels, in regards to length or exclusion or a whole host of other problems that Thurfels' suffered. WELL WTF?! It seems they fell in the same trap. And I'm not suprised. When you're having your ass licked 24/7 I'd see no reason to change what I'm doing either.

I don't think I ever personally stated that. The only thing I ever said was GSS wouldn't be affected by WoN, and it was in the end. As for it dragging on too long, it's not like it inconvenienced people who didn't care about it in the first place. If I dropped down a persistant invasion and just sort of left it there, then maybe it would've sucked hardcore.

Getting my ass licked 24/7? I seriously doubt that was a factor in it dragging on so long, if anything, it'd make me want to speed things up and do horrible illegal things for the lickers! :P I've already explained the reason for its length in other threads.


From the play.net, "In manner, [Gosaena] is silent and impartial." Impartial to me would suggest that if she even deigned to look upon the current goings-on, she would have no reaction. She certainly wouldn't gift one of her followers with enough power to hugely alter current events.

She probably didn't much care about what was going on. Remember that prophecy is a tricky thing, even for someone who sees the death of all things. Perhaps it was simply that particular item's time to die, and the only way to achieve that was to stick some angel out there that happened to have free will centuries before that item ever came into existence. Fate is funny like that. In the end, I don't think she did anything in regards to helping the good guys directly.


IMO it's lack of planning. A quest should be planned beginning to end before it's begun with timeframes for each component. It doesn't sound hard, but then you have to take into account free will and that plan (for the things to go the opposite of your ideal), yet still keep the quest on track.

You wanna know how much WoN was planned out? Heh, we had entire, deliciously detailed outlines written up by the Uber-Bradach. Wanna know how much of that stuff saw the light of day? Noooot alot, as I recall. Hardcore planning doesn't work real well (for me, personally) for the beginning of quests because you need to let players get a grip on what you're introducing and mess with it a little to put their own spin on things, THEN you start plotting out how it's going to go. I find running with an idea is just peachy for a while, but obviously you do need a plan. Even still, plans aren't going to help when life throws stuff at you, which is alot of the main reasons GSS got delayed. I'm really talking extended sagas here -- planning works fine for alot of other events.

As for the complaints of people centered in the events, it's mainly player perception. Alot of people have come and gone, especially on the good side of things, during the entire saga. I'm going through lists of names in my head, and they're pretty long. On the dark side of things, it's obviously going to be smaller since they're just a smaller group altogether. And, frankly, the 'core' people aren't slathered with GM attention. As an example, Mekthros' one on one personal GM interaction boiled down to: 1. Getting one of those DA pendants. 2. Pissing off Draezir and summarily getting killed by him.

That's it, as far as I can remember. Everything else he's done on his own. It's like that with *alot* of the people who've come and gone out of the limelight in quests. It's all perception. If you can step up and be bold among your fellow players, and if you can keep going with the quest, then you're likely going to get noticed at one point or another by a GM. Even if you're not, you're already in the minds of alot of players. Jolena's post on the subject is pretty good at explaining it.


After having read V's post, it makes me think about trying to get involved the next time around. I don't know if this is practical, but is there a place where the recent "happenings" of an event get chronicled so people can get a grip on what is transpiring?

We used to have semi-regular updates in the news section:

http://www.play.net/gs4/news/events/home.asp

It used to get posted on the front page every time we updated. But I don't really remember that happened with that. I think Melissa forgot to pester me and I forgot to pester her, so the GSS updates didn't get posted and I stopped writing them. GS4 News was a great place until it went dormant, I think? I remember intentionally sending them some stuff a while back.

Also, boards work, sometimes. Sometimes you get people that document things in a completely freaky fashion and other times you get nothing but crickets. There were several times I just wanted to go: 'Here, look! Look! Stuff's happening, but no one's posting!' on the boards with an accompanying log of said happening.

~ V

[Viridian]

I won't lie I was sort of hoping that we DA members and Supporters would get to make one last stand even if it would have been an ultimately defeating one.

Though I'm sure as HouseofElves stated if could have shifted the balance and how things should have come out.

I mean you ultimately know your side isn't going to come out on top when the high priest of your characters order talks of Grandure through the suffering of basically the entire land. Though your character believes it heart and soul (or lack of soul, heh) you as the player just sit back and chuckle.

Hadya was simply thrilled to hear Morvule's plans for the land, she wanted to be the one to have many sacrifices at her disposal to honor Luukos. Being a crazy zealot, she was as happy as a little clam. Not to mention I believe its, dare I say making her strive for such an ideal even though the sword is gone, she still believes Luukos could still achieve such. (Yes, I know its BS, but she doesn't)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Those are very narrow and old definitions.Sure.
as her vital interests were at stake for a variety of reasons. Somehow I doubt the DA running amok would ruffle Gosaena's feathers in the slightest. I reckon she'd be more bothered by Lorminstra's high-faluted-ness (high-falution?).
Originally posted by Sex Shoggoth
She probably didn't much care about what was going on.That's a relief. I like her just the aloof way she is. :heart:
Perhaps it was simply that particular item's time to die, and the only way to achieve that was to stick some angel out there that happened to have free will centuries before that item ever came into existence.I have to disagree here though. She can't be both impartial and active in the fulfillment of her own prophecies. If she *wants* the item/being to be destroyed, that is far different from her simply *knowing* that the item/being will be destroyed. Even if she's destroying it on a *whim*, she loses her impartiality.
In the end, I don't think she did anything in regards to helping the good guys directly. If her follower was acting on her/its own, then that's fine. I haven't seen the logs, but if this one being is able to outmuscle avatars an entire scad of adventurers were unable to even slightly perturb, it suggests to me that she/it had power from somewhere/someone beyond herself/itself.

[TheRoseLady]

This entire discussion has actually been beneficial for me. I realize, more than ever that getting involved in the storylines is very similiar to getting merchant work. Which I am very good at doing. It does seem to boil down to where you concentrate your efforts. If you don't try and keep putting yourself in front of merchants you likely won't get work. Same with standing on the sidelines, spouting comments instead of trying to find a way to get involved with events.

[Fallen]

Well said, Rose Lady.

[Warriorbird]

I have to disagree here though. She can't be both impartial and active in the fulfillment of her own prophecies. If she *wants* the item/being to be destroyed, that is far different from her simply *knowing* that the item/being will be destroyed. Even if she's destroying it on a *whim*, she loses her impartiality."

The only prophecy that I got indicated two different distinct possibilities before my character, not a preference for either one.

With that said, well, if not her, then certainly her priesthood/servants and implements were directly assailed. Neutrality and impartiality can mean aiding others in their goals if not being biased towards one end or another. There were also implications of several defying her will... and attempting to pull beings back from her grasp.

I think most of the developments of her have been things you missed however, Latrin, so I understand your feelings. I tend to prefer an ideal of an active faith of hers to an inactive one.

[Leetahkin]

She did help the good side though, wouldn't you say, by giving Charna the sickle (was it a sickle?).

[HouseofElves]

Charna is neutrally aligned.

I dunno, it all comes down to did you think Liabo and Lornon were balanced before the GSS started. If so, balance has been restored, if it was skewed for Liabo, then it is now. The point being Lornon had definately shifted things in favor at the end.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I think most of the developments of her have been things you missed however, Latrin, so I understand your feelings.w00t. I'll probably check out the Quests folder on the official boards later today.
There were also implications of several defying her will... and attempting to pull beings back from her grasp.Lorminstra doesn't do this every day???
I tend to prefer an ideal of an active faith of hers to an inactive one.I have no logical problem with a *follower* being active. When this follower is apparently an avatar of Gosaena (which I'd say is self-contradictory to begin with), I have a problem with her/it scampering around chucking swords into pits and whatnot (and I accept that I'm only going on what I heard about it, and haven't read the actual log).
Originally posted by HouseofElves
Charna is neutrally aligned.But Gosaena would know that Charna would kill whichever badguy it was she killed with the sickle, and therefore know that Charna would be acting on the side of good (though not necessarily motivated by Liabo). That would make Gosaena about as neutral as America's cash and carry policy during WWII.

[Jolena]

The angel didn't chuck the sword into the abyss, actually. Charna did when she hit it with the sickle, I believe. And honestly, the angel was not acting on behalf of the good side, she was acting on behalf of herself by restoring the balance to the world. At least that was my take on it.

[Warriorbird]

Lorminstra doesn't do this every day???

Not at all. This was a case of taking souls that had already bypassed Lorminstra and been in Gosaena's hands and attempting to return them to the living.

It was...dealt with.

A lot of the things that happened in the quest haven't been posted, however. There were a lot of issues with people complaining on the boards about various things (as Voraviel talked about) and issues about people metagaming board information for their own personal gain.

[ElanthianSiren]

I still can't see Gosaena getting involved, though I'm interested in the new guidelines mentioned by someone. Is there documentation of these new views on Gods/Goddesses, or is this speculation? If there is no documentation, also, how do you expect the players to know how the Arkati of Elanthia actually do operate (especially newcomers).


Originally posted by Sex Shoggoth
[quote]
You wanna know how much WoN was planned out? Heh, we had entire, deliciously detailed outlines written up by the Uber-Bradach. Wanna know how much of that stuff saw the light of day? Noooot alot, as I recall. Hardcore planning doesn't work real well (for me, personally) for the beginning of quests because you need to let players get a grip on what you're introducing and mess with it a little to put their own spin on things, THEN you start plotting out how it's going to go. I find running with an idea is just peachy for a while, but obviously you do need a plan. Even still, plans aren't going to help when life throws stuff at you, which is alot of the main reasons GSS got delayed. I'm really talking extended sagas here -- planning works fine for alot of other events.


If you have two possible outcomes for every scenerio, logically 50% of your plans are not going to see light of day, though they can, of course, be woven into other interactions IMO. I always used to advocate three per faction, (as you can usually split your core participants into "camps"), which meant I had tons of PC notes that never saw the light of day either, but they are still great ideas :!:

IMO, every quest should be planned like a good novel -- the end is known, and like you said, the beginning is open to interperitation, but it always nudges toward the end, which the storyteller already knows but will not allow the players to cognatize. It is like that old card trick of being able to roundabout guess what card a person holds, though you are in fact limiting down, with each answer, their possibilities. It gives other people the illusion of control.

Plotwork is an incredible trickery of illusion IMO, which is what makes it so awesome. Like one of my trading mentors says: "The market always does the most obvious thing in the most obscure way." so should a plot IMO.

-M

[Fallen]

IMO, every quest should be planned like a good novel -- the end is known, and like you said, the beginning is open to interperitation, but it always nudges toward the end, which the storyteller already knows but will not allow the players to cognatize. It is like that old card trick of being able to roundabout guess what card a person holds, though you are in fact limiting down, with each answer, their possibilities. It gives other people the illusion of control. >>

This type of thinking has already meant with much complaint. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I am simply stating that people will bitch, "Why should I even bother with storylines if nothing I do makes a difference?".

[ElanthianSiren]

But what you do DOES make a difference. That approach actually anticipates the steps that the players will take and forms a triade of pre-meditated responses to those responses for every major event. The minor events, we work with more fluidly, as the players can have as much control there as they really want to have.

Again, it's not the fact of players actually having control, it's making them THINK they do, so you must choose your major events carefully, while injecting many many minor events that you let the players themselves control. Example:

SCENERIO:
Ugly bad people loot a town (we'll use Illistim). Man they're mean. They kidnap the high elf's very rich daughter, and word spreads to Ta'Vaalor of course.

Now, you can anticipate there will most likely be three groups: 1. people who want to try to help save her. 2. people who don't give a care. 3. people who want to work with the kidnappers to try to extract a ransome.

As people will assemble these groups themselves, you can try to move them toward the next phase of the plot, which, if we're doing a simplistic storyline is the confrontation with the weakforce or the environmental factors.

Generally, you want group one to need group two for some reason (in our scenerio, most likely, they are geographically separated and need something only found in Vaalor or that the other half of town only knows about or they are culturally separated and need something from another culture). It should never be something easily-obtained by one person like a skin. Every act of a plotline should foster group effort.
Now, let's say group 2 decides to cooperate. In this way, you will most likely bring the "I don't care" folks or those who feel disconnected to the plot into the storyline. You have just swept indifference away, or you have built the stamina of group one by forcing them to go it alone and either form alliances or be resourceful.

The other way to do this is to directly impact members of group two with the quest. This tends to work better for plagues, though race plagues in this fashion are bad as they are perceived as descriminatory, so it's generally NOT good to play the race card. Generally, what I used to do was find a key element that defined the stragglers, other than the obvious, to play with. In some cases, it was their objection to the plot itself. For instance, if their objection is a political one, you must react by illiciting the more emotional side of politics, (in this case the parents, siblings etc), to involve those who are put off by that type of plot.

It is all about identifying with your audience in the broadest possible sense. That is the function of a plot. It seeks approval of its audience. It is a non vital entertainer.

II. weak force meets weak force
This will be where you can plot various groups against each other, though these people will most likely run into contention with each other on their own, and it's always been way more fun IMO to sit back and watch them haggle, duke it out, politicize etc the circumstances, doling out RPAs as I went.

At this same time, group 3, will most likely be working to try to garner favour with group 2 to get group 2 on their side, as group 2 has one of the keys of the quest. Group two will either want to horde that key (now they're really involved in an active sense mwahahaha -- if this happened, I would have the baddies come looking for the key, so now they're really really really knee deep in it), give it to group one (now they're involved in a passive sense, and you need to find a way to keep them involved), or give it to group 2 (now they're involved in a passive sense in an act against the government. hehehe).

Group two can decide to go either way, but the players now have the ILLUSION that they are in control of the plot, as they are the ones impacting group 2's decision, not the GM. As the person in control, you don't CARE which way they choose. In fact, you don't care if the kidnapped girl dies or lives as a result of their choices because NPCs are discardable creations. To care about any character in a story beyond their usefulness IMO is ego.

III -- strong force meets weak force.

Kidnappers + group 3 and parts of group two most likely vs. kidnapped, group 2, and group 1. Who will win?

Who cares? That's the beauty of it. The people are then so emotionally wrapped up in the plot, whatever it may be, that all sorts of scenarios are possible.

You just need to react feasibly to what other characters do as your NPCs. In GS especially, characters already have the means to deal with death, dismemberment etc, so it is quite easy to let players mop up the consequences of their own actions.

-M

[GSLady17]

There would have to be only one key....so a GM would probably have to make something. Then, how would people know where to find it. Otherwise, more than one group would have the key or the group with the key would fight over what to do with it, get pissed and then go pick up another key.

Who would hold on to the key? Someone who halfway through the quest loses power and then the key is gone?

[Artha]

But Gosaena would know that Charna would kill whichever badguy it was she killed with the sickle, and therefore know that Charna would be acting on the side of good (though not necessarily motivated by Liabo).
How would she know that? Jastev's the one that sees the future.


/lament myself still knowing this stuff

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by GSLady17
There would have to be only one key....so a GM would probably have to make something. Then, how would people know where to find it. Otherwise, more than one group would have the key or the group with the key would fight over what to do with it, get pissed and then go pick up another key.

Who would hold on to the key? Someone who halfway through the quest loses power and then the key is gone?

Why does there only have to be one key? If you use something extremely rare (in one quest I ran, we actually did use a super-rare skin; in another we used two artifacts -- they were stone tablets that were dispersed at the beginning of the quest. The tablets had to come together, though they drove their handlers insane. People who came into contact with the handlers were tracked and effected in the same way -- beauties of having a serious coder in your storytelling dept).

Further, the keys in the specific plot I'm referencing, the stones, were not important, but the players thought they were. They were what plot writers call a "red herring". Once the two stones were brought into contact, (which occurred at the very start of the quest), the evil was already raised, so their existence or non existence (ie someone logging out with them was irrelevent. These types of keys should always be set to self-destruct). The funny thing is, people fought over who got to "hold" the unimportant stones, while the people holding them were damaged most.

The important thing is to find something, tangible or intangible that has a multiplier effect or chain reaction. I'll agree that running quests is a ton of work, but I don't think it's impossible to have a reaction ready for everything that does NOT involve bringing down God. As a writer, stock trader, and biologist, I'm simply trained to leave God out of things, and I tend to do so, even in realms where magic is permissable.

-M

edit: where not were

[Edited on Sun, September th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Artha
How would she know that? Jastev's the one that sees the future.From play.net: "[Gosaena] is gifted with foresight, most specifically, knowledge of when everyone and everything will die."

[GSLady17]

Because if there is more then one key, rare or not to get, the capped players from Illi are going to come over grab that key and take over the quest themselves. Again people in the group will, like you mentioned, fight over the key. They'll eventually stop fighting and go find their own key.

[HouseofElves]

...

[GSLady17]

Ehhh, pretty much the reason a lot of quests suck, are because the people suck. They all want to be the winner, the problem solver, the hero. Because of that, many thinks just won't work and it puts a limit on what the GM's can do.


However, that does not mean the GM's couldn't devote more time to improving the quests.

[Warriorbird]

How would she know that? Jastev's the one that sees the future.

She's boffing Jastev. Duh. Death angels dig the absinthe drinking wastrel poets.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by GSLady17
Ehhh, pretty much the reason a lot of quests suck, are because the people suck. They all want to be the winner, the problem solver, the hero. Because of that, many thinks just won't work and it puts a limit on what the GM's can do.


However, that does not mean the GM's couldn't devote more time to improving the quests.

That is why you have to foster a system that forces reliance on others. Combine the variables and any system can be built. That is why I love systems. You have to play off the fact that people are going to compete (like you said).

Give warring groups different information various different NPCs etc. Make them share, collaborate, cheat each other. It's all a beautiful part of human nature.

In total reality, the only issue I have here is the bringing in of a direct servant of the Arkati to end the quest. It bothers me and seems like a lack of planning, simply because I do not bring God into anything intended for a mass audience.

One of my characters, for instance, is an atheist who thinks that resurrections are not granted by the Arkati but by a very secret occult magic hidden within the "temples" that they exploit to horde wealth. I can't imagine what she would have thought seeing a flagged angel of Gosaena descend.

-M

[Fission]

There's other reasons besides just the people that some of these quests suck.

Anything that can be solved by running a three to five line script for six hours doesn't make a good quest. It doesn't make a quest at all, period.

Too many times what PCs do doesn't matter at all in the short run or the long run. The worst example of this ever was that Ashrim quest on the Wavedancer. They even said as much at the end.

In the end, too many of the quests fall back on the same tired plot devices. Is there a month Solhaven hasn't been invaded and/or burned? Not only has it lost its impact, now it's just become a stupid joke.

Too much of the activity provided is reactive, and again, mostly with burnings, invasions and occupations. It would be great if PCs could take the fight to the enemy more often instead of just waiting to get pounded repeatedly. If would be even better if players got a chance to try and initiate some of these things on their own.

Just my two cents.

[Edited on 9-11-2005 by Fission]

[ElanthianSiren]

I don't care much for invasion quests or push any button and hope you win quests, myself. I think there are room for those dramatic/mundane elements, and I haven't seen them as much as Fission says (every month?! dang), but I think they have to be quite rare to have the extreme impact you're looking for when you resort to them.

I like psychological and emotional quests personally. Though I was not a player in the game I worked on, (I don't believe staff should ever have playing characters), I used to observe players and keep mental psych evals of possible psychological triggers for questing. My mom's a shrink, so I guess that's only natural for me.

I also love word games, so the coder I mentioned before helped me come up with some kickass word puzzles. All in all, participating in a quest department is a huge honor, but it's also very time consuming. I quit personally because I wasn't getting paid to keep very organized, detailed, meticulous notes on everything, and I could make much more doing stock plays for the same amount of time investment.

IMO that's the largest problem with GS' quest systems. Their interactions GMs are still not salaried, and most people are only going to invest so much effort for free.

-M

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
She's boffing Jastev. Duh. Death angels dig the absinthe drinking wastrel poets. She told me she was washing her hair. :(

[fiendwish]

"Again, it's not the fact of players actually having control, it's making them THINK they do, so you must choose your major events carefully, while injecting many many minor events that you let the players themselves control..."

Like hours of cutting down trees, no doubt. Boy, now that's my idea of a good time.

But Veeeeeee! why did you so stubbornly refuse to provide a Moses to part the sea for the good guys early on when we were stymied and on the boards begging for one? Could you nor any other participating GM not muster any creative enthusiasm for a Crusades sort of hero for the Resistance? While the Alliance had their multiple twisted deviants to spur action on, we had limp noodle Ulstram to work with. Gee thanks. Not that I didn't appreciate Ulstram's role, but if you'd provided at least one fired up NPC with an agenda like we hoped you would, the story would have had openings for all sorts of other turns and outcomes. The idea of such a character was dismissed for fear of promoting too much PvP maybe? Got me, but that was exactly the juncture where the quest went south and lost a lot of momentum.

Apart from that, you and Loth did a fantastic work. Allow me to give you a good ass licking with expectations of all sorts of illegal favors in return. Oh, wait. I don't play anymore. So much for that.

[ElanthianSiren]

huh? I never worked for SIMU if that post was aimed at me.

I was just sharing what strategies I had used, in other outlets, for running plotlines.

-M

[Warriorbird]

She meant Voraviel. And I'm pretty sure Simu pays their GMs, even if it isn't on the scale of salaried programmers.