rate my warrior

[lexbubba]

I have been out of the lands for about 2 years and just recently returned to find many more things have changed. I am considering reworking my warrior but I am not really sure what direction I want to go with him:

He is 34 trains, voln master, warriors guild master. I mainly hunt undead with voln fu but also hunt with OHE occasionally.



Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 82 (31) ... 87 (33)
Constitution (CON): 77 (23) ... 82 (26)
Dexterity (DEX): 81 (10) ... 81 (10)
Agility (AGL): 90 (15) ... 90 (15)
Discipline (DIS): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Aura (AUR): 94 (17) ... 94 (17)
Logic (LOG): 69 (4) ... 69 (4)
Intuition (INT): 69 (9) ... 69 (9)
Wisdom (WIS): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Influence (INF): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)

Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 208 108
Shield Use.........................| 172 72
Combat Maneuvers...................| 166 66
Edged Weapons......................| 172 72
Brawling...........................| 172 72
Physical Fitness...................| 173 73
Dodging............................| 154 54
Perception.........................| 128 34
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15
Pickpocketing......................| 5 1

I am thinking of decreasing the Perception to .5x, upping the CM to 2x, outing the pickpocketing, and MOCing 5 ranks.

I am struggling with whether I should decrease the armor training to 2x. I really want to get into plate ASAP but it is eating up a lot of training points. I need to at least stay in hauberk.

comments, input, and opinions would be great. Thanks

[Edited on 9-3-2005 by lexbubba]

[Andreal]

OHE Automatically makes him worthless in my book.

Honestly though, Voln Fu is good. 1 Rank of pick pocketing is pointless. Ever plan to get swimming?

[lexbubba]

Thanks for the quick response. Like I said, I am planning on getting rid of the pickpocketing just as soon as i am ready to adjust my skills. I do have 15 ranks of swimming already. Should I have more?

[The Ponzzz]

First, 2x CMs.

Next, and this gets tricky... Only training 3x in armor till you are at a new armor point. This helps out ALOT at lower levels. So if ya have 80 ranks of armor, don't 3x armor again till you know you'll have 100 ranks, and so on...(this can help you catch up in other skills, but overall you don't gain much.) If that doesn't make sense to you, then just 3x armor.

Sword and board... If you think you really need to go this route then I dunno. Drop shield and pick up TWC or drop edged/shield and go with a real weapon for a warrior(polearm/twohander).

Your dodge is ok, 1x will do if you need points.

Maybe drop swimming to 10 ranks and throw those other points where needed. Unless you do alot of swimming, which I can't really see.

1x perception is actually decent. Alot of people don't train in it, but at 1x you can see a lot. But... Points prolly could go into a magical skill such as MIU or AS to help you out. Unless you can get all the spells you would need, in which case the TPs could be used elsewhere too.

Keep brawling if ya like it.

Thats my help for the day!

[The Ponzzz]

Oh forgot the big one!

2x MoC, 1x if ya can't 2x. But focused mstrike is awesome...

[Andreal]

Oh, no. Sorry, when I first looked I didn't see any swimming. Thats just something you'll need later is all.

You could always drop edged completely and keep shield, if you wouldn't mind only using Voln Fu and brawling weapons. It would get you tons of tps to use on other things.

[ElanthianSiren]

For brawlers, I like TWC brawl. Just an opinion though. Been testing it with a newb for when monks come out. So far, it has my heart. As someone else said OHE is pretty useless. I wouldn't do it unless you have an RP reason for doing so.

-M

[Latrinsorm]

OHE/shield is perfectly viable. My warrior dies far, far less than a THW warrior of comparable level played with equal skill.

Never wear hauberk. Metal breastplate is the same cost for tons more mechanical benefits.

Always, always, always double CM.

MoC is pretty good, but it's nothing you have to kill yourself for. It's much better to 2x CM, armor, and PF before even thinking about MoC.

[lexbubba]

What are the training rank requirements for different armors? I have not looked at the information in forever but if I remember correctly hauberk is 80 ranks. What about breastplate and full plate?

[Edited on 9-3-2005 by lexbubba]

[Andota]

Perception used to increase your voln fu MB (though I haven't played in a year, so that might warrant a bit of testing) to the effect of 5 ranks = +1 MB with no diminishing returns.

It worked mechanics wise through level 50 (I used my fixskills and left out perception, and then added it a rank at a time to see when the MB went up... but since I was only 50 i couldn't test through 100)

Lots of variables could matter (armor, weapon choice, level vs level) but i left everything constant while adding ranks (40 pound full plate, three pound bastard sword, level 50 vs level 20) and it went up.

Mighta changed by now, but you might consider it.

[Latrinsorm]

For physical penalties:

Hauberk: 80
MBP: 80
Augmented BP: 100
Half Plate: 120
Full Plate: 140

As for Voln Fu MB, the square formula goes like this:

(20/17) * Brawling skill + Perception skill / 20 (truncated) + Agility bonus / 2 + Dexterity bonus / 2 + Strength bonus / 5

So, perception isn't going to do a whole ton for Voln Fu, but it's still a decent skill to have.

edit: Formula c/o Marconius

[Edited on 9-3-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[Apotheosis]

This makes me wonder. Is there a hot or not type of website for MMORPGS?

[lexbubba]

Should I wear greaves (arm and leg) and helm with the breastplate? I have heard this will impart the same hinderance as full plate. Is that true?


[Edited on 9-3-2005 by lexbubba]

[GSLady17]

You can't change stats around any more I thought.

One big benefit with breastplate is your tackle will kick ass. I just walked around in 4x breastplate until I was 80 trains. Then I switched to full plate. Currently I have 148 ranks in armor and every time I train (I 2x it) I see my tackle get better.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by lexbubba
Should I wear greaves (arm and leg) and helm with the breastplate? I have heard this will impart the same hinderance as full plate. Is that true?


[Edited on 9-3-2005 by lexbubba]


My warrior never did... with redux you should be fine.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Then I switched to full plate. Currently I have 148 ranks in armor and every time I train (I 2x it) I see my tackle get better.>>

140 is the most armor ranks you should have. Anything else should go to physical training for redux.

If you claim post-140 armor increases your tackle, you shouldn't be giving advice.

If you use MBP past level 50, you shouldn't be giving advice.

<<Should I wear greaves (arm and leg) and helm with the breastplate? I have heard this will impart the same hinderance as full plate. Is that true?>>

I don't think this works for whatever reason. I know that it's supposed to, and in theory it does, but I used MBP and arm greaves only to have my arms injured at 8 raw damage. I bought augmented breastplate and now I'm not injured in those hits. Miscellaneous armor does not seem to increase crit divisor.

[Latrinsorm]

Crit divisor for chain is 9 anyway, so Bob's example is pointless. However, crit divisor can be a bit malleable at times.

If you suit up in greaves and helm rather than wearing the onepiece, you only have to train to 130 ranks for full plate. I have this on very good authority, though I have not tested it myself. Presumably this holds true for all armors.

GSLady, I reckon what you're seeing is the increase from CM and leveling, not from armor training. Also, the difference between wearing MBP and full plate is probably very, very neglibible. I just tested, and my pre-d100s for disarm in MBP and skin were 32 and 38, respectively.

[Renian]

If you suit up in greaves and helm rather than wearing the onepiece, you only have to train to 130 ranks for full plate.

Wrong...sort of. You need 130 ranks in full plate to remove the RT penalty. You need 140 ranks in full plate to remove the maneuver hinderance as well, even if you do as you said.

[Edited on 9-4-2005 by Renian]

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Then I switched to full plate. Currently I have 148 ranks in armor and every time I train (I 2x it) I see my tackle get better.>>

140 is the most armor ranks you should have. Anything else should go to physical training for redux.

If you claim post-140 armor increases your tackle, you shouldn't be giving advice.

If you use MBP past level 50, you shouldn't be giving advice.

<<Should I wear greaves (arm and leg) and helm with the breastplate? I have heard this will impart the same hinderance as full plate. Is that true?>>

I don't think this works for whatever reason. I know that it's supposed to, and in theory it does, but I used MBP and arm greaves only to have my arms injured at 8 raw damage. I bought augmented breastplate and now I'm not injured in those hits. Miscellaneous armor does not seem to increase crit divisor.


Why buy better armor and spend the silvers that I did not have at the time when I don't need it?:?:

[MdnightDream]

I hate 2 handed weapons. I'm an OHE and shield girl all the way.... when I want to get fun, I have a two weapon brawler.

[Drew]

Originally posted by GSLady17
Why buy better armor and spend the silvers that I did not have at the time when I don't need it?:?:


Instead of arguing will you just keep your thoughts out of the actual gemstone threads so we don't have to keep correcting your bad advice, it's confusing enough as a new/returning player already and they don't need someone with only the dimmest grasp of mechanics throwing out poor advice.

It's not like this is the first time this has happened either, I've had to correct you several times before amongst many others. Just because you got a warrior to a high level doesn't mean you're an expert on the subject.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I don't think this works for whatever reason. I know that it's supposed to, and in theory it does, but I used MBP and arm greaves only to have my arms injured at 8 raw damage. I bought augmented breastplate and now I'm not injured in those hits. Miscellaneous armor does not seem to increase crit divisor.


Crit divisors are really messed up anyway Bob, and because of the GS4 combat changes it's a lot harder to track down why, I remember a while back a warrior was posting shots of 5 and 7 damage giving him rank 1 wounds in full plate then I put up some shots of 9 and 10 damage wounds giving my character nothing in brigandine.


At least at this point I view crit divisors as general guidelines and not hard and fast rules.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Renian
Wrong...sort of. You need 130 ranks in full plate to remove the RT penalty. You need 140 ranks in full plate to remove the maneuver hinderance as well, even if you do as you said.140 ranks for full plate. 130 ranks for half plate + helm. You can test it if you like. :)

[lexbubba]

Here is my updated skills:

Skill................Ranks

Armor Use........95
Shield Use........76
Combat Man....74
Edged..............74
Brawling..........74
MOC.................10
Physical Fit.......75
Dodging...........49
Arcane Sym......14
MIU...................6
Perception........30
Climbing...........15
Swimming........12

Let me know what you think

Lex

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by lexbubba]

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by lexbubba]

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by lexbubba]

[The Ponzzz]

I'll echo this again.

More MoC.

10 ranks only offers protection on 2 creatures. Get 15 or drop to 5 if ya really don't use it...

[Warriorbird]

"OHE/shield is perfectly viable. My warrior dies far, far less than a THW warrior of comparable level played with equal skill. "

Not a claim you can necessarily back up.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Not a claim you can necessarily back up. The last time my warrior died was in the invasion after a sentinel decided it would be cool to pound me in the eye. Before that... it was about 4-5 months ago in vesperti after a curse (and me being stubborn).

Conversely, a THW-based warrior played by someone I know has died about 6 times in the past 2 weeks alone (not all invasion-related), and that would probably be about 7 times if I hadn't hauled his bacon from the fire. He's just as well trained and as well played as my warrior is, and even discounting bad luck, I don't know how you can say he dies less than my warrior.

[Warriorbird]

But you can't say that's true for everyone. In the period after my warrior got berserk he didn't die for months. I used to have him die constantly when he used one handed weapons and shields and was in Voln.

Sometimes offense is the best defense.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
But you can't say that's true for everyone.:?: I specifically said "a", not "any".
Sometimes offense is the best defense.True. Can't kill 5 creatures at once though (without being extremely, extremely lucky).

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
OHE/shield is perfectly viable. My warrior dies far, far less than a THW warrior of comparable level played with equal skill.

Never wear hauberk. Metal breastplate is the same cost for tons more mechanical benefits.

Always, always, always double CM.

MoC is pretty good, but it's nothing you have to kill yourself for. It's much better to 2x CM, armor, and PF before even thinking about MoC.

I like most of your advice.

I do feel the line about THW and OHE is anecdotal and misleading at best. It neglects a lot of the story about who fast that warrior can kill, what critters are being hunted, even what level range it happens at.

As an example. My warrior went from dieing 5 times before I could work off the recent deaths to not dieing for a month. Whats the anecdote? I went from hunting fire mages to hunting rift plane 1. Its simply an easier hunting ground given the skill set I work off of. Same build - same player - same level.

Anyway, as you said 2xCM is a minimum. AS is precious. Dont piss it away neglecting a core skill.

Personally I only take MOC to two focused strikes. The RT on more is prohibitive on THW. With smaller weapons Id probably aim for three.

By the way, were you the fellow reccomending open swing dagger to the eye some threads ago? I tried it out with the sai and the results were bloody miserable. Sorry if it was someone else.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Landrion
By the way, were you the fellow reccomending open swing dagger to the eye some threads ago?Yes. Sais, being slower than daggers, are probably harder to aim. The DFs are basically comparable though, unless you were swinging at plate.

[lexbubba]

Updated again

Skill................Ranks

Armor Use........93
Shield Use........74
Combat Man....74
Edged..............74
Brawling..........74
MOC.................30
Physical Fit.......74
Dodging...........37
Arcane Sym......15
MIU...................10
Perception........30
Climbing...........15
Swimming........15

I still have 80 MP left over and I just leveled.
I will probably adjust them a couple more times before I use the FIXSKILLS. I am possibly bumping shield use higher, and putting PT higher. Lemme know what you think. Thanks.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by lexbubba]

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Landrion
By the way, were you the fellow reccomending open swing dagger to the eye some threads ago?Yes. Sais, being slower than daggers, are probably harder to aim. The DFs are basically comparable though, unless you were swinging at plate.

Aiming wasnt the problem. I could get the eye reliably enough. It just didnt produce a death crit (even with puncture against bare skin) to be worthwhile. I tested with a 360+ AS against red scale thraks (which I couldnt learn from and are unarmored). I would regularly blind both eyes without killing the mob. The test was so lopsided in my favor (critter with crap armor, way lower level than my char) that I considered the tactic unviable. It is possible that the critter carries some inherent crit padding - but I did keep the sai for further testing.

[Latrinsorm]

Are you sure thraks aren't naturally armored? That's very peculiar. I don't know if shan have lots of health, but if they do, I'll give the eye-dagger another try when I move to them.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Landrion
I tested with a 360+ AS against red scale thraks (which I couldnt learn from and are unarmored).


Check the AvDs and make sure they don't have "skin" that is equivalent to a certain armour type.

[lexbubba]

Someone take a look at my skills 3 posts ago and tell me what you think before I use fixskills.

Should I increase the PT?

Should I switch from OHE to something else like 2HE or TWC? I am worried about what my DS will be like without a shield. I die more than enough with a shield as it is.

[Latrinsorm]

If you're dying *a lot*, then it's probably more of a tactics issue than anything else. What/how are you hunting, what kills you?

[lexbubba]

I am dyin' 2 or 3 times a training. I hunt skeletal lords and warhorses in the inner ward of varanur. I am 35 trains and the lords are 41. I hunt the completely in offensive when I am spelled up but stance dance when i've got no spells on me.

But anyways, my question really concerns the skills.

[Warriorbird]

"True. Can't kill 5 creatures at once though (without being extremely, extremely lucky)."

I did. All the damn time. It's about using your utilities properly.

[lexbubba]

Here is my final skill set after fixskills:

Skill................Ranks

Armor Use........93
Shield Use........74
Combat Man....74
Edged..............74
Brawling..........74
MOC.................30
Physical Fit.......74
Dodging...........37
Arcane Sym......25
MIU...................10
Perception........30
Climbing...........15
Swimming........15