Jesse Jackson Will Never Go Away

[Doyle Hargraves]

This time he's on TV screaming WHITE OFFICIALS HAVE FAILED BLACK AMERICA!!!!!!11 and that this country needs more black officials in authority.

So basically the whole reason things are so chaotic right now is because we don't have enough blacks running our country.

This guy gets more retarded everytime he shows his face. Plus he always looks like he just finished a boxing match.

The channel I'm watching has a split screen, and on the other side it shows George W. standing in Biloxi talking with black families.

[Tromp]

Um what color is the mayor of New Orleans?

He's doing a fine job.

[DeV]

He has become an attention whore throughout the years. Most people I know simply ignore him.

[Doyle Hargraves]

A friend of mine e-mailed me this. His dad sent this into the newspaper. I hope they print it:

September 3, 2005


Morning Advocate
Baton Rouge, LA

RE: Letter to Editor


Dear Sir,

I was reading the Saturday Morning paper from Sept. 3rd and happened on a couple of quotes from Jesse Jackson that caused me to write this letter.

On page 11a of the paper Jesse Jackson says the flooding that caused thousands to be trapped inside the city was caused by a lack of federal funding for its (New Orleans) levee system and hurricane planning. In the next paragraph he states, “There is a historical indifference to the pain of poor people and black people” in this country.

I would take issue with Mr. Jackson and reply that the flooding was caused by Hurricane Katrina and some natural possibilities of weather factors that steered the Hurricane on its final path to New Orleans. Federal funding had nothing to do with the strength of the Hurricane, its point of landfall, the loss of electricity etc. There was no private meeting in a “smoke filled” room with politicians gleefully wringing their hands and knowing that when the money for levees in New Orleans was not appropriated that a city would be destroyed and poor people would be killed and others made to suffer.

The outpouring of support from people, churches, and local and state governments in the Baton Rouge area is a direct refute of his other statement that there is an indifference to the pain of poor people and black people in our country.

Jesse Jackson surfaces when there is a disaster and uses the media to pursue his personal agenda, which is a parasitic existence on the media and the people he purports to represent.

A long time ago a wise man that is the genesis for this outpouring of support for the poor and suffering stated “ You have the poor with you always, you will not always have me.”

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Gan]

Jesse Jackson is right up there with Al Sharpton in my book.

I cant wait for the ones of this particular generation to die off. They need to quit living off of the hate of yesterday, like the leeches they are.

[Apotheosis]

Unfortunately, for as many of them that will be dying off, there are likely successors eager to take up "the cause".

[Gan]

Another million years and we'll all have the same skin tone anyways, providing we're still around. Wonder what they'll do next? Eye color? height? Hair/Baldness?

Only a fool judges a book by its cover, same goes for those who judge a human by its skin. -Ganalon-

[Showal]

<<Jesse Jackson surfaces when there is a disaster and uses the media to pursue his personal agenda, which is a parasitic existence on the media and the people he purports to represent.>>

I couldn't agree with this more. I think the uninformed racial blanket generalizations cast by all these "defenders" of the black people (jesse jackson, al sharpton) set the civil rights movement back a number of years. The best thing Al Sharpton has ever done was his part in the movie Mr. Deeds.

[fiendwish]

Yeah, Jackson's pathetic. Instead of being a champion for his people, he turns out to be nothing but a pot stirrer and not even particularly effective at that. I image MLK would be pretty disgusted to find what Jackson became.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Another million years and we'll all have the same skin tone anyways, providing we're still around. Wonder what they'll do next? Eye color? height? Hair/Baldness?

Only a fool judges a book by its cover, same goes for those who judge a human by its skin. -Ganalon-

You do realize that from 1619-present black people in the land-mass that is currently the US have been disadvantaged by explicit, implicit, systemic, and institutional racism and prejudice?

This post makes you sound utterly ignorant. Like 300 years after a group of people, whom had been identified by their skin color and subject to the societal limitations based on that identification, had a unique idea to start talking about race.

I take no issue with your opinions on Sharpton/Jackson. You've provided a decent basis for your poor opinion of both men and to an extent I share your sentiments. But to make a statement such as the one you made above offends my, in your opinion mind you, trivial mental faculties.

[Celephais]

I'm a little unsure about what it is in his post he said that offended you, it might make a little more sense with his previous post

I cant wait for the ones of this particular generation to die off. They need to quit living off of the hate of yesterday, like the leeches they are.
To which I defend him by saying that hate has diminished, it has taken 300 years, but each generation tolerance improves. So when the vocal, prominent hate revlers of a generation fall out of the limelight then we can take another step in the right direction. Hate certainly won't go away, and new forms of prejudice will form.

We just have to hope that tolerance outpaces hate.

(If I understood what you were upset about)

[Keller]

Unfortunately I'm "one of those people" who voices my belief that institutional racism is still a problem impacting our society. There is no question in my mind of it's existence. I think Sharpton and Jackson have gotten cocky and extended the boundries beyond reasonable discourse but I consider myself a part of "that generation" who continues to bring up the hate of past generations and throws it in the face of the "man".

So I am offended that he, without reason, asserts that the foundation of Jackson's argument is fictious and analagous to reading a book by it's cover. History is not amendable. It's history. Cognize that truth and deal with it's results.

[Sean of the Thread]

How fucking stupid do you have to be to think institutional racism was a causation of what happened in New Orlean's???

OH and Kayne West has something to add. (not a fucking idiot by comparison to PC posters)

http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1604601/



[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin]

[Keller]

Originally posted by Xyelin
How fucking stupid do you have to be to think institutional racism was a causation of what happened in New Orlean's???

OH and Kayne West has something to add. (what a fucking idiot.)

http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1604601/

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin]

Please look up institutional racism. Please.

The fact that an overwhelming majority of American's who died in NO were black is proof positive of institutional racism. It's basically a picture perfect example in fact.

There are basic systemic problems with our society that resulted in a specific group of people without financial means to uproot themselves from their community in the face of Katrina and move to safer land. Of course this wasn't a concious decision made by the federal government like Jackson or Kanye would like to believe. But to ignore or make a non-issue of race in this instance is an assault on common sense.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin

OH and Kayne West has something to add. (what a fucking idiot.)

Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin] His statement was without merit. Emotions are pretty high at this time and alot of people are speaking without thinking. He is however, not a fucking idiot. We have enough of those on the PC for that accusation to definitely have no merit.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Keller
So I am offended that he, without reason, asserts that the foundation of Jackson's argument is fictious and analagous to reading a book by it's cover.Ganalon was saying judging people by their skin color was wrong, which is why he said "same goes for those who judge a human by its skin". I like you, but wtf are you thinking?

[Gan]

My analagy of 'judging a book by its cover' paralleled to racisim is just that.

Judging a person by their skin color is the same action as judging a book by its cover. I dislike both, and while not discounting what has gone before, it is a practice that is dying out. Perhaps not as fast as you would prefer, but it is on the decline and its momentum has not stopped. I fault those who use their skin color as an excuse for failure, and those who convince others that the failure is because of skin color. As well as those who use skin color as a basis to fail.

My point with that statement was that people like Jackson and Sharpton are stumbling on the forward momentum of civilized society because they are too busy looking and living in the past rather than keeping their eyes on the future. They're opportunists that make their living exploiting and inflamming situations that arent necessarily racist based.

Yes I know that some people still live in the stone age (Jasper Texas comes to mind) and I hope that the people who represent that mindset die off just as quick, and that their children receive more education and enlightenment that causes them to think otherwise.

Just understand that this works both ways. Those who think that white people are racists just because they are white (the man) are just as bad off, in my opinion, as white people who think that if you're not white you're trash.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. When you look at the voting and race figures for Jefferson Parish, I could see where some drew the conclusions that these folks have. You could then extrapolate that Florida would've gotten help faster.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

But you would be wrong once you look at all the facts. Unless its a faith based conjecture which might possibly fly in most churches.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by Xyelin
How fucking stupid do you have to be to think institutional racism was a causation of what happened in New Orlean's???

OH and Kayne West has something to add.

http://www.collegehumor.com/movies/1604601/

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Xyelin]

Please look up institutional racism. Please.

The fact that an overwhelming majority of American's who died in NO were black is proof positive of institutional racism. It's basically a picture perfect example in fact.

There are basic systemic problems with our society that resulted in a specific group of people without financial means to uproot themselves from their community in the face of Katrina and move to safer land. Of course this wasn't a concious decision made by the federal government like Jackson or Kanye would like to believe. But to ignore or make a non-issue of race in this instance is an assault on common sense.

Maybe you should look it up.
I know exactly what institutional racism is and that is EXACTLY why I said you must be fucking stupid.

>>
The fact that an overwhelming majority of American's who died in NO were black is proof positive of institutional racism.<<

Actually that is PROOF POSITIVE that the population of Orlean's is 70% Black.

>>There are basic systemic problems with our society that resulted in a specific group of people without financial means to uproot themselves from their community in the face of Katrina and move to safer land.<<


ALL citizens that stayed behind were warned with extreme prejudice of the very dangerous storm. Those that did not have the means to head out of town were told to get to the safest structure in town.. the Superdome. Sadly.. MANY MANY did not listen.

There were first responders there as SOON AS the wind died down enough for the coast guard choppers to get in. Do you honestly think they were passing up victims based on their race?

Please hop on next train out of crazy town.

[DeV]

I believe the fundemental division is not race but in reality the extremely low economic class of those affected. Many say those who stayed had a choice but the truth is when you're living paycheck to paycheck and your out of state family connections are only one step up the ladder than the situation you're currently living in, your options are limited. Fact. There were white poor people stranded on rooftops and in the superdome as well as poor blacks. It's hard to watch people in our very own country going through a tragedy with an aftermath that resembles something out of a third world country. I think it was an extremely overwhelming situation from start to finish and I just can't fathom Americans leaving other Americans in a situtation such at that regardless of skin color PURPOSELY.

And Ganalon, while I agree with alot of what you're saying I wanted to add that there are many types of racism and they also include those who say there's no racism in America anymore even today. I just don't feel Katrina had anything to do with it and that card didn't need to be pulled. The media didn't help matters with their poor labeling of looters which seemed to add an unecessary spark to the fire. It is also how we the viewers perceive what we see in the media. And the question begs, why are American citizens being referred to as "refuges"? It makes me sick, but so do the cries of racism on either side as it is definitely coming from blacks as well as whites.

I just hope with the aftermath and the outpouring of donations by the American people, including myself and so many others on this board, that people realize that even when people feel the government isn't doing enough Americans will take care of their own regardless of race or class. And that's how it should be.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Keller
Unfortunately I'm "one of those people" who voices my belief that institutional racism is still a problem impacting our society. There is no question in my mind of it's existence. I think Sharpton and Jackson have gotten cocky and extended the boundries beyond reasonable discourse but I consider myself a part of "that generation" who continues to bring up the hate of past generations and throws it in the face of the "man".

So I am offended that he, without reason, asserts that the foundation of Jackson's argument is fictious and analagous to reading a book by it's cover. History is not amendable. It's history. Cognize that truth and deal with it's results.

That's all fine and dandy, but do you believe that the slow response to New Orleans was because of racial issues?

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Keller
Unfortunately I'm "one of those people" who voices my belief that institutional racism is still a problem impacting our society. There is no question in my mind of it's existence. I think Sharpton and Jackson have gotten cocky and extended the boundries beyond reasonable discourse but I consider myself a part of "that generation" who continues to bring up the hate of past generations and throws it in the face of the "man".

So I am offended that he, without reason, asserts that the foundation of Jackson's argument is fictious and analagous to reading a book by it's cover. History is not amendable. It's history. Cognize that truth and deal with it's results.

That's all fine and dandy, but do you believe that the slow response to New Orleans was because of racial issues?

Yes. he said it was a perfect bulletproof example of institutional racisim.

[Showal]

I think Backlash said it most accurately. It's more an issue of economics than race (at least for the ones who stayed behind). However, even the poor were given the opportunity to go to the superdome. I've said it before in another thread, but even if the majority of the population in NO was white, I doubt the levees would have been upgraded in time. Cat3 levees are adequate given the normal hurricane season. Cat5 storms are very unusual, at least from my understanding. With all the other disasters people are planning on, I doubt it was a high priority to upgrade those levees. In hindsight, of course, it is of upmost priority and it should have been finished roughly around early August/late July. Too bad we can't plan for things a couple of months after an event happens.

[Warriorbird]

"But you would be wrong once you look at all the facts."

Really? Hasn't Florida had better hurricane responses?

[Gan]

Yes, because the Florida leadership called for help quicker, had more effective disaster plans in place, and more effective leadership capable of knowing when to call for aid. How does that align with your extrapolation that its racially biased?

Or are you in a fishing expedition since thats Jeb's state?

Not counting that Florida has had more experience in dealing with disasters such as this than Lousiana has... specifically relating to large metropolitan areas.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Ganalon]

[Warriorbird]

"I've said it before in another thread, but even if the majority of the population in NO was white, I doubt the levees would have been upgraded in time."

Due to Congressional cuts more than anything else. I don't feel the response was some terrible racist thing or that Bush has done too terrible a job (it hasn't been great, but it could've been a lot worse) but I see why other people could draw that conclusion.

[Gan]

You're fishing, and its a sad effort at that.

[Warriorbird]

"How does that align with your extrapolation that its racially biased? "

I didn't say I thought that way. I said that I could see why other people thought that way. There's counterpoints they'd bring up if you thought about it.

For myself I'll continue to be unhappy with Congress from all sides. This was some pretty dubious budget cutting. I'm not going to blame the victims or Bush or even really blame Congress as it were, I just think this is an example of poor judgement. There shouldn't be cost/benefit games for the future of an entire city that is this vital to American commerce.

[Warriorbird]

"You're fishing, and its a sad effort at that. "

I love how you insult me when I'm trying to explain points of view that aren't even my own.

Way to show your age and maturity. Cute edits too.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Yes, because the Florida leadership called for help quicker, had more effective disaster plans in place, and more effective leadership capable of knowing when to call for aid. How does that align with your extrapolation that its racially biased?

Or are you in a fishing expedition since thats Jeb's state?

Not counting that Florida has had more experience in dealing with disasters such as this than Lousiana has... specifically relating to large metropolitan areas.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Ganalon]

Actually there are many places in Florida that have no protection. Here in Pinellas county.. a peninsula on a peninsula and also the most densly populated county in the state would be completely fucked if it got hit with a cat 5. The only protection much of Florida has is early detection and EVACUATE when they tell you too.

The entire peninsula would be cut off from the mainland and all bridges and causeways would be out. Most hospitals are below sea level and help/resuce/aid would be severely slowed because of these circumstances JUST LIKE New Orleans.

While it was painful to watch these people suffer I still think the response time wasn't all that bad given the extreme circumstances.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Actually that is PROOF POSITIVE that the population of Orlean's is 70% Black.


Curious, in your opinion, why do you think there was such a high % of blacks in the NO area.

[Showal]

<<There shouldn't be cost/benefit games for the future of an entire city that is this vital to American commerce.>>

But there has to be. Once again, to repeat a point, if an oil tanker blew up in Boston as opposed to this storm flooding NO ... but the gov't was focusing all their money into building up the levees to withold a cat5 storm when they already had cat3 levees, who would not be saying "why the hell would the government be putting that much money into NO when the terrorist attack in Boston is so blatantly obvious?!" You can use any amount of situations/potential disasters to fill in the tanker scenario. In hindsight, we can say the need for upgrading the levees was extremely high priority. If another event happened and the levees were treated as such, we'd be saying the opposite. You can't plan for every potential disaster and you can't be fully prepared for any disaster.

[Warriorbird]

"Actually there are many places in Florida that have no protection. Here in Pinellas county.. a peninsula on a peninsula and also the most densly populated county in the state would be completely fucked if it got hit with a cat 5. The only protection much of Florida has is early detection and EVACUATE when they tell you too.

The entire peninsula would be cut off from the mainland and all bridges and causeways would be out. Most hospitals are below sea level and help/resuce/aid would be severely slowed because of these circumstances JUST LIKE New Orleans.

While it was painful to watch these people suffer I still think the response time wasn't all that bad given the extreme circumstances."

Insightful. I'm glad for Florida's sake that the early warnings seem to have been so good.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Yes. he said it was a perfect bulletproof example of institutional racisim.

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. One day I'll remember to keep reading before I make a post.

Anyway, I think all these cries of racism is ignorant bullshit. It's not white peoples' fault that 70% of of New Orleans's population or however much it was is black.

New Orleans is a big city with a lot of people, and if 70% of that is black, that still leaves the other 30%, which is still a lot of people. Even if Bush was president of the KKK, I seriously doubt he'd be willing to sacrifice all those white people (not to mention the city of New Orleans itself) in order to bump off a bunch of black people.

If we had a black President and everything with Katrina happened exactly the same, what would be the excuse then? First the blame would probably go to Louisiana's white governor (which wouldn't really be inaccurate. Not because Kathleen Blanco is white, but because she's a fucking idiot beyond belief and has no clue what she's doing. If anyone really should be blamed for the slow response, it should be her. Again, not because she's white, but because she's an idiot.), then they'd blame all the white people in Congress. I guarantee you that the black president wouldn't be blamed for shit.

I'm not racist and I have nothing against black people, but I'm really getting sick tired of everything that happens being blamed on white people and racism. Shit like that is borderline racism on its own.

Nobody's out to get you. Get the fuck over it or move to Canada.

Yeah, I'm so sure the reason help didnt get there fast enough was because you're black. Whatever. Maybe it took so long because it isn't a quick thing to get water and food and medicine for 100,000 people together! I mean all that shit had to be gathered up, loaded on trucks and planes and the troops had to be rounded up to get it all down there. Not exactly something that can happen in an hour. Idiots. In the meantime, why don't we go out and loot a 42" plasma TV. That makes sense. We'll go watch it in my ghetto government housing project that is flooded up to the roof and plug it in to an outlet that has no electricity. Then if your sister wants a bag of ice, shoot her in the head. Then when help does arrive, let's shoot at them too and blame it all on white people.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Showal
You can't plan for every potential disaster and you can't be fully prepared for any disaster. So true. This is the reason I shudder to think of another attack on our soil. We have proven once again that not all states are prepared to handle a disaster, even a natural one.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"You're fishing, and its a sad effort at that. "

I love how you insult me when I'm trying to explain points of view that aren't even my own.

Way to show your age and maturity. Cute edits too.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

No worse than you stirring up the pot from time to time. If you cant deal with someone disagreeing with you then find anotehr place to post. As for it being an insult? You really need to get your feelings in check if you consider that an insult, especially from me.

Edit: The edits were done upon proofread while your post was still being typed out... nice try to divert the attention though.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Ganalon]

[Warriorbird]

"You can't plan for every potential disaster and you can't be fully prepared for any disaster. "

Except that there was a bit more research and analysis into it than that. The government had conducted studies a multitude of times in the past 50 years. They generally noted that it WAS going to happen sooner or later... they just thought that the cost would've been extreme. I'm friends with a fellow who's a son of one of the economists from 1999. He also returned in 2002. 500 million got put forth in 2005 on reccomendations that were many years old at that point. Unfortunately, I don't think IEM will be fulfilling that contract. I don't blame Clinton's administration or Bush's for passing on it in particular, I do think Congress should've taken things more seriously sooner though.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Yeah, I'm so sure the reason help didnt get there fast enough was because you're black. Chill out. Not everyone who is black feels that the slow response was due to race. In fact, people who don't even live in NO and who didn't even live through this disaster are a majority of the ones saying it was due to race. RICH black and white people at that. Seriously, chill, no one is going to move to Canada over this.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"You can't plan for every potential disaster and you can't be fully prepared for any disaster. "

Except that there was a bit more research and analysis into it than that. The government had conducted studies a multitude of times in the past 50 years. They generally noted that it WAS going to happen sooner or later... they just thought that the cost would've been extreme. I'm friends with a fellow who's a son of one of the economists from 1999. He also returned in 2002. 500 million got put forth in 2005 on reccomendations that were many years old at that point. Unfortunately, I don't think IEM will be fulfilling that contract. I don't blame Clinton's administration or Bush's for passing on it in particular, I do think Congress should've taken things more seriously sooner though.

Should we build a 75 foot levee around the entire state of Florida or perhaps the entire SE coast?

[Warriorbird]

"If you cant deal with someone disagreeing with you then find anotehr place to post."

I got criticized for being too simplistic so I decided to be a bit more detailed. I guess I can't expect the same from other people however.

You can't seem to get past point counterpoint counterpoint into that next counterpoint. You seem to break down.

I think I've elaborated sufficiently to back what I'm saying. I was mainly addressing the people who couldn't believe other folks could believe what Jackson, West, Sharpton were putting forth (Doyle, etc.). You're incidental.

[Warriorbird]

"Should we build a 75 foot levee around the entire state of Florida or perhaps the entire SE coast?"

Probably not. The economics of scale are much different than one city that was that crucial to commerce on the Mississippi.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

Somehow one would take in the inherent risks of a given geographical location when moving or living there.

California = earthquakes

Florida = hurricanes

Kanas = tornado alley

I choose to live in a hurricane prone area, in a flood prone area, even though I know the risks... if shit happens I'll be sure to follow example though and blame someone else for my misfortune... damn straight... in fact, perhaps I'll go get a hot cup of coffee from McDonalds too! [/sarcasm]

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Yeah, I'm so sure the reason help didnt get there fast enough was because you're black. Chill out. Not everyone who is black feels that the slow response was due to race. In fact, people who don't even live in NO and who didn't even live through this disaster are a majority of the ones saying it was due to race. RICH black and white people at that. Seriously, chill, no one is going to move to Canada over this.

I'm not saying all blacks feel that way. I'm pointing out how ridiculous the people that do feel that way sound. Idiots like Jesse Jackson, for example.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Warriorbird]

Somehow one would take in the inherent risks of a given geographical location when moving or living there.

California = earthquakes

Florida = hurricanes

Kanas = tornado alley

I choose to live in a hurricane prone area, in a flood prone area, even though I know the risks... if shit happens I'll be sure to follow example though and blame someone else for my misfortune... damn straight... in fact, perhaps I'll go get a hot cup of coffee from McDonalds too! [/sarcasm]

-Ganalon





Curiously enough all of those places act and have reasonable federal assistence to minimize the impact of those disasters. There's huge budgets devoted.

For the ironic racial related note (I am not advocating this, idiot), you could claim they're all far more white than that portion of Louisiana, too.

I'm sure you'd have the people who get screwed over in various scams or by corrupt corporations (Erin Brockovich) blame themselves for what happened too. Way to suggest people take responsibility, Ganalon! Those victims clearly brought it on themselves... just like spilling hot coffee.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

There's a difference between blaming someone for your misfortune/mistakes/ineptitude and for someone stepping up and taking responsibility for what they did and did not do.

A prime exampe of this would be the Mayor of New Orleans. :rolleyes:

[Warriorbird]

A prime exampe of this would be the Mayor of New Orleans.

Who clearly dictates Army Corps of Engineers budgets....

:whistles:

[Gan]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Curiously enough all of those places act and have reasonable federal assistence to minimize the impact of those disasters. There's huge budgets devoted.

Sources please? As compared to the federal assistance and budgets available to New Orleans?

[Warriorbird]

Sources please? As compared to the federal assistance and budgets available to New Orleans?

-Ganalon


NOAA got 3.2 billion in 2002. I don't have the exact totals for 2005. Something on the order of 900 mil of that was suppsedly for NWS.

I'm sure someone can find the data on both.

[/quote]#

January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

#

April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."

#

2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

#

December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy and former college roommate, Michael Brown, who has no previous experience in disaster management and was fired from his previous job for mismanagement.

#

March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.

#

2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

#

Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."

#

June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

#

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

[/quote]


Department of Homeland Security

Tom Ridge, Secretary

www.dhs.gov 202–282–8000

Number of Employees in 2004: 183,000

2005 Discretionary Budget Authority:
$33.8 billion

.........................

I suppose in retrospect when you consider what happened to FEMA budgets and the Republican takeover slamming prevention (Guess which Cali governor liked to devote money to earthquake prevention...Davis or Arnold?) then no, they don't have any more money allocated than New Orleans.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Showal]

<<Except that there was a bit more research and analysis into it than that. The government had conducted studies a multitude of times in the past 50 years. They generally noted that it WAS going to happen sooner or later...>>

The fact that we are saying it should have happened sooner as opposed to later is all something we are able to do because of hindsight. If you asked me, or almost anyone 2 months ago at that, I would have suggested later because I would think there were more pressing issues. New Orleans has been around for how long and how many times has it been flooded by a cat5 storm? Yeah ... that's where I would have made my basis on.

Now, I am also able to say that there should have been tsunami warnings on both sides of the islands. It's a good idea, but a cost benefit analysis was conducted and it was determined (in the future it would turn out to be wrong, obviously) to not be necessary. That doesn't make me any more right sitting here now calling them retards for not planning correctly.

[Warriorbird]

Refusing to judge present actions based on past ones leaves one open to a multitude of future mistakes.

[Showal]

Agreed, but searching more for blame than for cause is more foolish than righteous.

[Sean of the Thread]

Ah hah.. Man who stand on toilet is high on pot.

[Celephais]

Baseball wrong. Man with four balls, no walk.

[Showal]

Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger.

[Warriorbird]

Man who buy drowned cat must pay for wet pussy.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Sean of the Thread]

HAHAH.

Man who fart in church sit in own pew.

Okay okay HN is going to bitchsmack us.

[Showal]

Sorry HN. <3 U 4eva

[weasel82]

Man who pushes piano down mineshaft get A flat miner.



Confucius was a wise man...

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by weasel82]

[Gan]

Originally posted by Warriorbird

Sources please? As compared to the federal assistance and budgets available to New Orleans?

-Ganalon


NOAA got 3.2 billion in 2002. I don't have the exact totals for 2005. Something on the order of 900 mil of that was suppsedly for NWS.

I'm sure someone can find the data on both.

#

January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

#

April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."

#

2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

#

December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy and former college roommate, Michael Brown, who has no previous experience in disaster management and was fired from his previous job for mismanagement.

#

March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.

#

2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

#

Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."

#

June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

#

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

[/quote]


Department of Homeland Security

Tom Ridge, Secretary

www.dhs.gov 202–282–8000

Number of Employees in 2004: 183,000

2005 Discretionary Budget Authority:
$33.8 billion

.........................

I suppose in retrospect when you consider what happened to FEMA budgets and the Republican takeover slamming prevention (Guess which Cali governor liked to devote money to earthquake prevention...Davis or Arnold?) then no, they don't have any more money allocated than New Orleans.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird] [/quote]

Perhaps you misunderstood me when I mentioned sources, I mean CREDIBLE sources, not biased left wing blog sites as a source. :lol:

Here's the site you used, or one just like it with the SAME (mis)INFORMATION.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007023.php

Or this site:
http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/

I'll see if I can find some actual FEMA data and other factual evidence to show a comparison of readiness of Florida to Louisana.

In the meantime, please quit making assumptions based on heresay or ambiguous data... or at least dont get your feelings hurt when someone calls you on it.

[Warriorbird]

Hearsay? Ha.

Go check the FEMA cuts. Come... show some sources.

If you notice my adjusted conclusion I suggested there wasn't much difference. The FEMA rollover to DHS led to there not being much difference between any of the areas in federal money like you suggested.

It got cored, so all that was left was NOAA, NWS, the tiny amount of FEMA money, the theoretical yet non-existent DHS stuff.... and the 500 million IEM contract that got approved but never used specifically for New Orleans. If they approved that, they must have finally decided it was an important issue. Sadly it was too late.

:chuckles:

Go fish.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/law/news/wdl20041129.html

THREE STATE OFFICIALS INDICTED FOR
OBSTRUCTING FEDERAL AUDIT

Shreveport, Louisiana . . . A federal grand jury has returned two separate indictments charging three members of the State Military Department with offenses related to the obstruction of an audit of the use of federal funds for flood mitigation activities throughout Louisiana, United States Attorney Donald W. Washington announced today.

Two of the individuals charged, MICHAEL C. APPE, 51, of Mandeville, Louisiana, and MICHAEL L. BROWN, 61, of St. Francisville, Louisiana, are senior employees of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. Both APPE and BROWN are charged with conspiracy to obstruct a federal audit; BROWN is additionally charged with making a false statement.

The Hazardous Mitigation Grant Program is administered by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and is designed to fund mitigation projects to prevent future flood losses or flood claims made upon the National Flood Insurance Program. BROWN was responsible for overall management the program in Louisiana; APPE was responsible for managing employees who perform fiscal transactions regarding these funds.

The indictment alleges that during an audit of the program being conducted by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security-Office of Inspector General, a State Military Department employee realized that $175,000 in expenditures of federal monies was improper in that the money was not used for purposes authorized by the federal program and would therefore have to be re-paid to the federal government. This employee notified APPE, who in turn directed the employee to provide false documents to the federal auditors.

Specifically, the indictment alleges that APPE directed an employee to contact an assistant to BROWN and have them prepare a false, backdated memo to make it appear that the expenditures were proper. The false document was created and was subsequently signed by BROWN. APPE and BROWN then sent the false, backdated memo to federal auditors. The indictment alleges that BROWN told federal auditors that he signed the document in May 2000, when in fact he knew he had signed the document in January 2004.


More as I find it... <note, its from an official source, not a blog>

Go Fish...

[Warriorbird]

Err.... Ganalon. Those other numbers I quoted come from...dunh dunh dunh... the NOAA main site and the DHS mainsite. Those are parts of the government, in case you didn't know.

Shocking wild liberal stuff, that.

Not getting what your last citation actually proves either, as I've already suggested that those other places didn't have anything more than NO had thanks to the budget cutting across the board.

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

Timeline of Katrina outlining action and response.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/katrina/katrina_timeline.html
_________________________________

Aug. 24, 2005 [Wed]
Tropical Depression 12 strengthens into Tropical Storm Katrina over the Central Bahamas, and a hurricane warning is issued for the southeastern Florida coast.

Aug. 25, 2005 [Thur]
Hurricane Katrina strikes Florida between Hallandale Beach and North Miami Beach as a Category 1 hurricane with 130 km/h winds.

Aug. 26, 2005 [Fri]
Katrina weakens over land into a tropical storm, before moving out over the Gulf of Mexico. It grows to a Category 2 hurricane with 160 km/h winds, veering north and west toward Mississippi and Louisiana. 10,000 National Guard troops are dispatched across the Gulf Coast.

Aug. 27, 2005 [Sat]
Eleven people die in Florida. Katrina becomes a Category 3 storm, with 185 km/h winds, and a hurricane warning is issued for Louisiana's southeastern coast, including New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain, and for the northern Gulf coast. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declares a state of emergency and urges residents in low-lying areas to evacuate. Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour declares a state of emergency. A mandatory evacuation is ordered for Hancock County, 65 kilometres east of New Orleans on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Coastal Gulf residents jam freeways and gas stations as they rush to escape.

(Why didnt the Gov. of LA issue a state of emergency for LA like the Gov. of MS did?)

Aug. 28, 2005 [Sun]
Katrina grows into a Category 5 storm with 260 km/h winds, and heads for the northern Gulf coast. Mayor Nagin orders a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans, but 10 shelters are also set up, including the Superdome, for those unable to leave. Evacuation orders are posted all along the Mississippi coast. Alabama Governor Bob Riley declares a state of emergency.

(Why werent all the local buses and other modes of transportation utilized to get the residents of NO that were incapable of getting out themselves? Were the designated shelters designed and capable of shelter against a CAT 5 Hurricane?)

Aug. 29, 2005 [Mon]
Katrina, now a Category 4 hurricane with 230 km/h winds, makes landfall near Buras, La., at 6:10 a.m. CT (7:10 a.m. ET). U.S. President Bush makes emergency disaster declarations for Louisiana and Mississippi, freeing up federal funds. Katrina rips two holes in the Superdome's roof, with some 10,000 people inside. At least eight Gulf Coast refineries shut down or reduce operations. Airports close in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, La., Biloxi, Miss., Mobile, Ala., and Pensacola, Fla. Hundreds of flights are canceled or diverted.

(Any efforts of aid or rescue this day is unthinkable since this is the day of landfall of the storm.)

Aug. 30, 2005 [Tue]
The death toll in Mississippi rises to more than 100. Two levees break in New Orleans and water pours in, covering 80 per cent of the city and rising in some areas to six metres deep. Many people climb onto roofs to escape. Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco says everyone still in New Orleans - an estimated 50,000 to 100,000 people - must be gotten out. Crowds swell at the Superdome and the convention centre in New Orleans. Rescuers in helicopters and boats pick up hundreds of stranded people in New Orleans, and reports of looting begin to emerge. About 40,000 people are in American Red Cross shelters, not including in New Orleans. President Bush cuts short his vacation.

(Considering the previous knowledge of the levies, their condition, and capabilities of storm resistance; why did the Gov. of LA wait until the day AFTER the storm landed to order a mandatory evacuation of NO? Considering the results of all of the studies of the possibility of flooding, why werent the people removed from the area BEFOREHAND? Thats like driving around in a Gremlin (knowing that it will explode if it is struck from the rear) and thinking "I'll get out after it catches fire".)

Aug. 31, 2005 [Wed]
Nagin offers a startling estimate of New Orleans' death toll: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands," he says. "At first light, the devastation is greater than our worst fears," says Blanco, Louisiana's governor. Looting grows dramatically, with people using a forklift to smash into one pharmacy. Blanco asks the White House to send more help, and New Orleans police are called off search-and-rescue missions to combat out-of-control looting. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt declares a federal health emergency throughout the Gulf Coast, sending in medical supplies and workers. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers estimates it will be at least 30 days or more before New Orleans will be pumped out. Bush authorizes a draw-down from the nation's Strategic Petroleum reserve, as gasoline prices surge above $3 US per gallon and shortages crop up. Five offshore Louisiana oil rigs are reported missing and two more are adrift. An estimated 52,000 people are in Red Cross shelters, with an additional 25,000 in the Superdome, where conditions are worsening by the hour. The first busloads of victims leave the Superdome for the Astrodome in Houston, more than 500 kilometres away. The Pentagon mounts one of largest search-and-rescue operations in American history, sending in four Navy ships with emergency supplies. Water levels finally stop rising in New Orleans, and engineers work to close a 15-metre gap in a failed floodwall.

(So the first evacuees from the Superdome are loaded and sent to Houston 24 hours after the levies break. How is that a delay in assistance other than they should have been removed from the city BEFORE the storm hit? 24 hours is not a racially biased or extraordinary delay to organize rescue efforts, secure mass transportation from outside the area/state and get them to NO to start loading up. Thats discounting the fact that efforts were also halted due to people shooting at rescue choppers and at people at the evacuation site. Where was the command center for the mayor and the police officials? Where was the communication to the public about what they were supposed to be doing and where they were supposed to go? (Radio, loud-speaker, etc.) Disaster models such as the one like Guiliani set up in NY were not used here - and possibly to its own detriment.)

Sept. 1, 2005 [Thurs]
Looting, carjacking and other violence spreads, and the military decides to increase National Guard deployment to 30,000. Outside the New Orleans Convention Center, the sidewalks are packed with people without food, water or medical care, waiting for buses that do not come. Tempers flare. Nagin, the New Orleans mayor, calls the situation critical and issues "a desperate SOS" for more buses. Crowds at the Superdome swell to 30,000, with another 25,000 at the convention centre. The first buses arrive at the Houston Astrodome. Elsewhere, 76,000 people are in Red Cross shelters. Violence in the region escalates, with rescue boats being stolen by marauders, and shots fired at helicopters that are bringing out hospital patients. Doctors at two New Orleans hospitals plead for help, saying their food, water and power are almost gone. Helicopters evacuate up to 600 patients but an estimated 1,500 others are left behind. The death toll in Mississippi hits 126. Bush asks his father, and former President Clinton, to lead a fund-raising campaign for victims. Texas agrees to take in 75,000 people, and 600 massive sand bags arrive to help shore up the broken levees of New Orleans.

(So 48 hours after the levies break, there is an increase in the call for national guard troops - no mention of when they were first called in this timeline, and the massive sandbags arrive as a stop gap for the broken levies. No mention of the state requesting federal troops (and I believe thats the procedure) to come in and assist in law enforcement and rescue efforts.)

Sept. 2, 2005 [Fri]
President Bush tours the Gulf Coast area and acknowledges the failure so far of government relief efforts, saying "the results are not acceptable." Thousands of National Guardsmen arrive in New Orleans bringing food, water and weapons: they are greeted with a mix of gratitude and rage. Explosions rock a chemical storage plant in New Orleans and other scattered fires break out. Black groups and leaders -including Jesse Jackson, the NAACP and the U.S. Congressional Black Caucus- contend that aid has been slow to arrive because of indifference to black suffering. Congress approves $10.5 billion US to cover the immediate rescue and relief efforts. The Houston Astrodome is declared full, and Texas opens up two more giant centers. Fifteen airlines get permission to fly as many as 25,000 victims out of New Orleans to San Antonio, Texas, and Air Canada dispatches a passenger jet to New Orleans with water and supplies. The Canadian government says 103 Canadians are stuck in the Gulf Coast, with nine unaccounted for: Stockwell Day criticizes the government for not bringing out the Canadians before the hurricane, and Prime Minister Paul Martin says everything possible is being done to get them out now. More than 50 nations -including Canada- pledge to help, and many U.S. states and Canadian provinces offer to take in survivors. The Canadian Red Cross estimates that so far Canadians have donated over $1 million to date to help survivors of Hurricane Katrina...

...more dates following the last listed above on the referenced source site. [again, not a blog]
_________________________________

According to this published timeline, I dont see the indifference to impoverished black Americans being rescued as Jackson and Sharpton called for, nor do I see huge delays in response considering all the forseeable barriers such as impassable roads and the organization of people and supplies as well as the travel time to New Orleans.

I find fault in the city government and the state government of LA for not evacuating the city prior to Katrina making landfall - knowing that the levies could and would break under any storm over category 4. I also find fault in the state government for not infusing funds and efforts to rebuild the levies themselves rather than waiting on the federal government to do the job for them... its your state, its your city, its your own backyard - get off your asses and start making something happen. Yes I do see where the FEMA budget cuts affected the efforts for stabilization and restructuring the levies - but what contengency plans did the state government have in place should that happen? I've yet to see any 'plan B's' in my searchings to date. We'll see as more talented investigators tackle this issue.

To say that rescue efforts took too long or that they were racially biased is just flat erronious... as well as blaming it all on Bush and the FEMA budget cuts. But lets not let that get in the way of the Bush hating opportunists who can spin this as being all his fault. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-6-2005 by Ganalon]

[Keller]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Keller
Unfortunately I'm "one of those people" who voices my belief that institutional racism is still a problem impacting our society. There is no question in my mind of it's existence. I think Sharpton and Jackson have gotten cocky and extended the boundries beyond reasonable discourse but I consider myself a part of "that generation" who continues to bring up the hate of past generations and throws it in the face of the "man".

So I am offended that he, without reason, asserts that the foundation of Jackson's argument is fictious and analagous to reading a book by it's cover. History is not amendable. It's history. Cognize that truth and deal with it's results.

That's all fine and dandy, but do you believe that the slow response to New Orleans was because of racial issues?

Yes. he said it was a perfect bulletproof example of institutional racisim.

I would like to answer both responses presented above.

First: I do not believe a slow response was the result of racism. Period.

Second: I said that the institutional racism resulted in a majority of the decedants in N.O. being black. That is a far cry from anything Jesse Jackson said and the belief Xyelin plainly alleges I have.

I too believe that Jackson and Kanye have made uncalled for and sweeping allegations which have little basis in fact. Unless both those men are disaster relief organizers, civil engineers, and social workers rolled into one I don't think they are qualified to synthesize a plain rationale like they have. It's much too complex for any of us to have a simple answer.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Ganalon
My analagy of 'judging a book by its cover' paralleled to racisim is just that.

Judging a person by their skin color is the same action as judging a book by its cover. I dislike both, and while not discounting what has gone before, it is a practice that is dying out. Perhaps not as fast as you would prefer, but it is on the decline and its momentum has not stopped. I fault those who use their skin color as an excuse for failure, and those who convince others that the failure is because of skin color. As well as those who use skin color as a basis to fail.

My point with that statement was that people like Jackson and Sharpton are stumbling on the forward momentum of civilized society because they are too busy looking and living in the past rather than keeping their eyes on the future. They're opportunists that make their living exploiting and inflamming situations that arent necessarily racist based.

Yes I know that some people still live in the stone age (Jasper Texas comes to mind) and I hope that the people who represent that mindset die off just as quick, and that their children receive more education and enlightenment that causes them to think otherwise.

Just understand that this works both ways. Those who think that white people are racists just because they are white (the man) are just as bad off, in my opinion, as white people who think that if you're not white you're trash.

Thanks for clarifying. I over-simplified your initial post as saying:
"If it were not for Jackson, or people like him, race would not be an issue."

I am in utter agreeance that race played no concurrent active part in the tragedy or response thereto as Jackson would like us to believe.

[Sean of the Thread]

Uhm I only read EXACTLY what you posted. I didn't plainly "alleges" anything about you. You^r statement was rather clear.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Xyelin]

[Keller]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Maybe you should look it up.
I know exactly what institutional racism is and that is EXACTLY why I said you must be fucking stupid.


Please articulate your understanding of institutional racism so I can help correct any misunderstanding you might about the theory. I feel you've not adequately understoof the matter.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Uhm I only read EXACTLY what you posted. I didn't plainly "alleges" anything about you. You^r statement was rather clear.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Xyelin]

I stated that institutional racism resulted in a majority of the decedants in N.O. to be black.

That in no way indicates that I feel a slow federal response was due to the color of those affected.

But you seem to know it all -- so I might have meant that afterall.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Keller

Please look up institutional racism. Please.

The fact that an overwhelming majority of American's who died in NO were black is proof positive of institutional racism. It's basically a picture perfect example in fact.

There are basic systemic problems with our society that resulted in a specific group of people without financial means to uproot themselves from their community in the face of Katrina and move to safer land. Of course this wasn't a concious decision made by the federal government like Jackson or Kanye would like to believe. But to ignore or make a non-issue of race in this instance is an assault on common sense.

I guess I some how took your very direct statements out of context?

[Keller]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Keller

Please look up institutional racism. Please.

The fact that an overwhelming majority of American's who died in NO were black is proof positive of institutional racism. It's basically a picture perfect example in fact.

There are basic systemic problems with our society that resulted in a specific group of people without financial means to uproot themselves from their community in the face of Katrina and move to safer land. Of course this wasn't a concious decision made by the federal government like Jackson or Kanye would like to believe. But to ignore or make a non-issue of race in this instance is an assault on common sense.

I guess I some how took your very direct statements out of context?

I figured you had mis-read/interpreted something along the way. You've always seemed to me to be a rational person with good mental faculties so I knew something was taken out of context.

[Warriorbird]

Heh heh heh. And where does that timeline come from, Ganalon?

:whistles:

Oh yeah, it has commentary from a clearly biased source!

[Gan]

It came from CBS... not from someone's blog.

Go Fish.


My bad... CBC, not CBS.
And considering the quality of the report, non slanted overview - I'd say its perfect for outlining the events of Katrina. I would challenge the US media to do the same and see how it turns out.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Ganalon]

[Warriorbird]

And said timeline was embellished by your oh so unbiased comments. It didn't have anything added commentary wise because it's a Canadian news source. It didn't have much in the way of further details. You did your own job of Fox-ing it.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
And said timeline was embellished by your oh so unbiased comments. It didn't have anything added commentary wise because it's a Canadian news source. It didn't have much in the way of further details. You did your own job of Fox-ing it.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

Wow, my bad for putting them in italics and in parenthesis in between each date that I wished to make a comment on. If I had known that it would have made it so confusing for you I'd have just bunched them all up in the end. :rolleyes:

It still doesnt refute the fact that the timeline seems fairly accurate, and its from a credited news source (even if it is Canadian) INSTEAD OF SOMEONE'S BLOG OR LEFT WING MOVEONE.ORG TYPE WEBSITE as your FEMA references were from. However, I'll even give you credit for the FEMA data - it still doesnt justify your reasoning that the efforts were massively delayed or racially biased.

-Go Fish.- :fish:

[Warriorbird]

"racially biased. "

You still can't grasp that that wasn't my reasoning. I don't think it was. I was pointing out why some people might think that.

"It still doesnt refute the fact that the timeline seems fairly accurate"

If incomplete.

"INSTEAD OF SOMEONE'S BLOG"

Everything else up there was cited from a government agency. The cuts in FEMA and increase in DHS happened. You can go through the actual budget itself if you want.

And then I realized, woah, there wasn't much difference in available funding!

So this whole effort is pretty pointless.

You still seriously skew any appearances of lack of bias when you insert your little peanut gallery comments.