Looters are lower than scum sucking maggots.

[Chelle]

Looters are the lowest form of life in existence. They should be tortured horribly, then kicked in the face repeatedly, then shot in the head, and their family billed the $5.00 for the bullet.

People who take advantage of victims of horrible tragedys, do not deserve to live. In my opinion they rank down there with child molesters and other horrible people. I feel strongly against people who abuse the weak and suffering.

I am deeply saddened about what's happened down there, especially since I got to visit some family members for the first time ever this past July. I do geneology research and we decided to go meet our cousins in Mississippi. I am so glad we did that. I've been emailing them and they tell me how horrible things are, then I hear on the news about the looting. So it angers me greatly!

I was listening to a press conference about the looters down there and the head police guy, either in Miss, or Louisiana said that they will treat looters with as much force as the law will allow.

[Hulkein]

Looting other peoples personal property is pretty bad.

Looting a store for a TV is pretty bad.

Looting a grocery store for food/supplies isn't wrong at all, in my opinion.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Hulkein]

[Wezas]

I've got to agree with Hulkein, to an extent.

If I'm stranded and unable to get clean water or food for my children, I'm going to do whatever needs to be done to survive.

Looting of homes and businesses other then grocery stores for the above mentioned purposes is just wrong.

[Celephais]

This has nothing to do with if you were stealing to survive or for profit, this has to do with the color of your skin.

http://photos23.flickr.com/38725768_16c66eb58b.jpg
Source (http://www.flickr.com/photos/firewall/38725768/)

Edit: Looks like the site took it down, I didn't save it localy but if you didn't get to see it, it was a black man with diet pepsi, and water up to his chest with an AP caption as a "Looter" and the other picture were two white(r) individuals with bread that they "found"

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Celephais]

[Alfster]

I know when I was watching the news yesterday they showed a walmart that literally opened it's doors to the people and said take whatever you need.

Personally, I agree with Wezas.

[Celephais]

I found this one hillarious...

“hmm, they said we’d get a lot of rain, I better get an Umbrella… wait they said it was going to be a LOT of rain, I’ll get two”

[Kainen]

Originally posted by Wezas
I've got to agree with Hulkein, to an extent.

If I'm stranded and unable to get clean water or food for my children, I'm going to do whatever needs to be done to survive.

Looting of homes and businesses other then grocery stores for the above mentioned purposes is just wrong.

I agree with this AND what Celephais said about the news clippings. Looters that loot for stuff other than things like food and water (stuff people need to survive) are scum.

[Hulkein]

:banghead:

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Looting other peoples personal property is pretty bad.

Looting a store for a TV is pretty bad.

Looting a grocery store for food/supplies isn't wrong at all, in my opinion.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Hulkein]

Agree.

People do what they have to do to survive in extreme conditions. The problem is when all the convenience stores are looted and they start turning on each other. The same "do anything" mentality in the lack of a nonhuman target turns human. I am very afraid of that in this instance.

-M

edited to add: that's why giving to RC and getting supplies out that way is paramount IMO.

[Edited on Wed, August st, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Gan]

Folks caught looting/taking non-necessity items should be prosecuted.

Necessity items = food, clothing, medicine, shelter related items (you cant live under that 60" plasma!!!).

[Wezas]

Problem is, they have nowhere to hold those people they find looting (things other than food). Their two prisons are under water and police are having enough of a problem trying to stop people from killing each other.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Ganalon
(you cant live under that 60" plasma!!!).

Like hell I can't!

[Shalla]

I think I heard they've looted the casino too, and was bashing at the machines.

[Jadewolff]

I heard the police and national guard weren't going to worry about the looting until they were able to rescue all of those that needed it.

[Gan]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Originally posted by Ganalon
(you cant live under that 60" plasma!!!).

Like hell I can't!

:lol:

Well, I recently had to adjust a client's workspace when two 50" plasma displays were putting off too much heat from being so close together. We opted to put them in another location and replace with multiple LCD displays.

Thats it!!! Plasma TV's are an improvised source of HEAT!!! Wonder if I can use that as an excuse instead of chopping wood for the fireplace... :!:

[Tromp]

turns the sound off his TV

pops in his Sex Pistols CD

cranks up Anarchy in the UK

Reminds himself that tons of property owners carry hand guns in the southeast <grin>



[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Tromp]

[Apotheosis]

Regarding the above photos:

Agence France-Presse said they were finding

AP said looting.

Apparently the France-Presse agency has a policy against anything that seems like a judgement while the AP has less stringent stance on this.

[Celephais]

Try again Yswithe, the black woman with the two umbrellas is a "Looter" and is posted by AFP

[Celephais]

I just think the whole debate is funny, I'm not up in arms about the racist comment (well... I am white so why would I be? :ohshit: )

I liked some of the peoples comments on the source site...


Racist double standards, in the south? Who woulda thunk it...

Kind of like how white people "found" America.

Why would he have to clarify, I mean.... clearly that guy was black and so he probably stole it. The chick in the other picture was mexican, so she probably stole her crap, lucky she was with white guy to give her some credibility! But I hope they're not dating, cus we can all agree interracial couples are just wrong. Right?


Black, white, thats not the issue. These people are from New Orleans! So they are all criminals anyways. Its good to recognize obvious prejudice like this, but linking it to your blog and claiming that Yahoo inc. is rascist is a little excessive and moronic. Be moderate people! Oh, and if you're white... keep finding bread, and if your black quit stealing the white people's bread.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Celephais]

[Apotheosis]

Yes, well, that's actually occuring real-time. The people wading through the water in the original photos weren't actually at the scene of the looting.

[Celephais]

Yeah, there is a lot of ambiguity with pictures so who really knows what really happened, really I don't care less, this is the internet, if we don't make hurtful racist insensitve remarks, it won't be funny anymore.

That said, you can't honestly believe it was an AFP policy to call them "finders", in all reality it was probably different caption writers, the ones who said Looters, were using a buzzword that sells papers/pictures, the guy who said finders was probably a hippy.

[Apotheosis]

I agree Celephais

[Androidpk]

Looting a store to get food and water is one thing, that is understandable. Looting stores to get clothes, electronics, dvds, stuff like that... pathetic.

The police should be shooting them.

[The Ponzzz]

Heh looting partially damaged stuff though is just gonna get thrown away! You's gonna buy a 60" plasma that "could have" been floating in piss and rain water? I know i wouldn't. Flood = tax write off, they are just gonna give their employees the stuff.

The true theives are the people stealing that bread! Maim them!















The above is a joke...

[Celephais]

That'll teach me to live in new england... I'll never get to go on a finding spree.

[Doyle Hargraves]

I heard on the local news last night that a state trooper was shot by a looter.

As for the race thing: Every single looter I've seen so far has been black.

At the risk of sounding racist (which I'm not), if black people don't want to be stereotyped as thieves (among other things), maybe they should stop stealing. Every bit of news footage of looting I've seen shows black people everywhere running around like lunatics, robbing stores and homes and basically doing exactly what their stereotype says they do and giving racists more reason to be racist.

Hopefully Dave Chappelle will agree and make a skit about it.

[kheldarin]

I heard the police couldn't keep the criminals in the jails so they let em free. The first thing the criminals did? They looted the local Walmart for guns and are now roaming throughout the city freely, armed.

[Androidpk]

I totally agree. Blacks are complaining about being stereotyped but gee, I wonder why. On all the news and video i've seen, it's been all blacks doing the looting and stealing. But you can't say anything about that because, oh, that would be wrong....and the police can't take active measures against them, because that would be racist. :rolleyes:

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Wezas
I've got to agree with Hulkein, to an extent.

If I'm stranded and unable to get clean water or food for my children, I'm going to do whatever needs to be done to survive.

Looting of homes and businesses other then grocery stores for the above mentioned purposes is just wrong.

Definately agreed.

[Celephais]

Doyle Hargraves, let me fix your post up a little bit...

Every bit of (TV) footage (of black people) shows black people everywhere running around like lunatics, robbing stores and homes
There we go.

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Tromp
turns the sound off his TV ...




[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Tromp]

Best idea I've heard all day! Sometimes the news gets me way too riled up.

[Celephais]

Inmates moved from the Orleans Parish Prison staged an uprising and reportedly are holding hostages.

I tried finding stuff about arming themselves at walmart but no luck yet... I kinda doubt they would abandon walmart and not take/lock up (not in glass cases.. as in vault) all the guns. I sincerly doubt that part of an evacuation plan does not include securing all firearms.

Edit:
wait... this is the south. Yeah I guess it's possible.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Celephais]

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Chelle
Looters are the lowest form of life in existence. They should be tortured horribly, then kicked in the face repeatedly, then shot in the head, and their family billed the $5.00 for the bullet.

People who take advantage of victims of horrible tragedys, do not deserve to live. In my opinion they rank down there with child molesters and other horrible people. I feel strongly against people who abuse the weak and suffering.

I am deeply saddened about what's happened down there, especially since I got to visit some family members for the first time ever this past July. I do geneology research and we decided to go meet our cousins in Mississippi. I am so glad we did that. I've been emailing them and they tell me how horrible things are, then I hear on the news about the looting. So it angers me greatly!

I was listening to a press conference about the looters down there and the head police guy, either in Miss, or Louisiana said that they will treat looters with as much force as the law will allow.


if i was in new orleans, and all of my house but the roof was underwater, and me, or my family were hungry/needed water, and there was a store nearby that wasn't completely submersed, i garuntee i'd be the first person kicking in that window and getting something to eat/drink for me/my family

[AnticorRifling]

I'd go after the plasma screens.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
As for the race thing: Every single looter I've seen so far has been black.

At the risk of sounding racist (which I'm not), if black people don't want to be stereotyped as thieves (among other things), maybe they should stop stealing. Every bit of news footage of looting I've seen shows black people everywhere running around like lunatics, robbing stores and homes and basically doing exactly what their stereotype says they do and giving racists more reason to be racist.
Yes because the number of blacks you've seen looting in the NOLA area are fully represenative of all blacks everywhere who for the most part are law abiding citizens and would never dream of doing something so heinus. I agree with Wezas and Hulk on food-water to preserve your family if there is no other means. I can also agree with some of the things you're saying, despite your attempts to not generalize you did exactly that. However you do make a point which should be directed specifically at "the assholes doing the actual looting" and not all blacks everywhere. Those fools don't represent everyone that shares their skin color.

Could it be... a cop looting as well. Must be a black cop. (http://blighty.multiply.com/journal/item/537)
Note the white guy looking through his "finds". (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050831/480/wxs11908310010;_ylt=AsvjahkNOreBSQliZ7OLjcdiWscF;_ ylu=X3oDMTA3dmhrOGVvBHNlYwNzc20-)

[Celephais]

Geez how do you miss the best part?

Another man rolled a mechanized pallet, stacked six feet high with cases of vodka and whiskey. Perched atop the stack was a bewildered toddler.
A little belushi

[Celephais]

HAHAHA, man, this article is gold

Sandra Smith of Baton Rouge walked through the parking lot with a 12-pack of Bud Light under each arm. “I came down here to get my daughters,” she said, “but I can’t find them.” ... So I gave up, figured I'd just get wasted.

[Alfster]

I don't see the big deal with people taking televisions and other electronic shit.

It's not like they're going to plug them in anywhere, and it's not like the tv is going to work after it's been floating in the shit water.

People like this should be removed from the gene pool.

[Celephais]

Originally posted by Dave
People like this should be removed from the gene pool.

They'll get plenty of federal and personally funded aid to make sure they aren't. (uh oh, I have a feeling I might stir something up with this one... Not for lack of trying in this thread)

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Celephais
Doyle Hargraves, let me fix your post up a little bit...

Every bit of (TV) footage (of black people) shows black people everywhere running around like lunatics, robbing stores and homes
There we go.

Right. I guess the media made a deliberate effort to show only footage of blacks looting, and take every possible measure to make sure that any white looting isn't shownm and every single news station was in on it too.

Gotcha.


Those fools don't represent everyone that shares their skin color.

Of course they don't. However, blacks tend to be stereotyped as thieves, and it's because of people like these.

EDIT: I'm only referring to those that are stealing TVs and stuff, not those taking food for survival. I wouldn't consider that as looting in a situation like this.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Celephais]

I wasnt' disagreeing with you, I was just simply stating it's not only the news. I don't watch a whole lot of TV but any time I see a black person on TV they are either:

1.) robbing a liquore store
2.) rapping about robbing a liquore store
3.) drinking lots of liquore
4.) selling jello puddin'

That and there are other factors, the number of lower class blacks in that area is much higher than the number of lower class whites (most upper class probably evacuated)...

and no white guy is going to be openly carrying a TV around a black guy with no cops around, he'll just get it stolen and beat up.

[Doyle Hargraves]

4.) selling jello puddin'

http://www.tvacres.com/images/jello_pudding.jpg

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by hectomaner
if i was in new orleans, and all of my house but the roof was underwater, and me, or my family were hungry/needed water, and there was a store nearby that wasn't completely submersed, i garuntee i'd be the first person kicking in that window and getting something to eat/drink for me/my family

I don't see why merchants should suffer because 1) you didn't evacuate when told to, and 2) didn't seek out the shelters that are providing food, water and a place to stay.

There are merchants that would have been glad to spare supplies if asked. However destroying their property to get items that will have no bearing on whether you live or die is selfish, inconsiderate and a complete choad thing to do.

Edited to say: Okay that doesn't sound too good, but it pains me that people don't take advantage of the time they have when warned of a hurricane to vacate their homes to a safe location. Hurricanes are one of the few disasters that allows you DAYS of time to evacuate and yet people continue to live their life as though nothing is happening and it bothers me.

[Edited on 8/31/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Androidpk]

It's pretty shocking to see how people are behaving down there, frightening too. If one hurricane can cause all this chaos I dread to see the aftermath of a terrorist attack where they explode a dirty bomb in a major city. :no:

[Sean of the Thread]

"Could it be... a cop looting as well. Must be a black cop. "

More than likely based on demographics alone. 67% Black population. 55% of the police force is Black.

[Skirmisher]

I agree that the people who stayed in their homes instead of going to at least the superdome have no one to blame but themselves, no argument.

I also think that most businesses would be willing to let people take essential items if they were there to open their doors.

I just think that most store owners are among the more intelligent and prudent people that left and now cannot return. So if they cannot return to open their stores and there are people stuck there now then yes if they have to break in then they should, but ONLY for items like food and water.

I don't have a large problem with police being allowed to shoot real looters, not those taking food, on sight as i heard reports of one police officer already being shot in the head by a looter.

[Androidpk]

While they did have ample warning time, not everyone had the means to evacuate.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Of course they don't. However, blacks tend to be stereotyped as thieves, and it's because of people like these.Well you can do your part by not stereotyping especially when you are aware that these people are only looking out for themselves and subsequently only representing themselves and their fucked up actions.

You think that other black people don't look at these fools with disgust because they are doing nothing more than adding fuel to an already generalized and highly stereotypical fire. We most certainly do.

[DianaBanana]

Stealing food and water in these extreme conditions I understand. Stealing guns and electronics is totally unacceptable and just contributes to the problem.

You know though, if these people had evacuated like they should have then they wouldnt be in the posiition they're in. In fact, they'd be on a line right now to get on a bus to a shelter that had food and air conditioning.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Androidpk
While they did have ample warning time, not everyone had the means to evacuate.

I'm pretty sure that not all 25,000 people who were in that stadium had NO means to leave the city and/or state. I kinda doubt that so many home owners have no car or money to get on alternate transportation.

[Edited on 8/31/2005 by CrystalTears]

[DianaBanana]

Originally posted by Androidpk
While they did have ample warning time, not everyone had the means to evacuate.

From what was reported on the news, the city had public transportation taking people to the superdome the night before the storm. If they had wanted to leave their homes, they could have.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Androidpk
While they did have ample warning time, not everyone had the means to evacuate.

Maybe not evacuate to a different city, but nearly EVERYONE can get across town.

They could have gone to the superdome and didn't.

I'm not condemning them to death or anything and have only the deepest of sympathy for them now. Why they didnt leave i dont know, but nearly every single person who stayed in town could have made it to the stadium with the odd exception true, but nowhere near the number of people we are seeing on TV.

[Androidpk]

I'm not going to make excuse for EVERYONE that chose not to evacuate. Of those people that did stay behind i'm sure 90% of them could evacuate, but there is always certain situations where people could not.

[Skirmisher]

Yeesh, CT and Diana both beat me to the punch. :(

[DianaBanana]

What really kills me is that by saturday they knew this storm was gonna be big. I'm sorry but if I saw even a category 3 aimed at me I'd haul ass out of there. If I couldnt make it out for whatever reason, I woulda packed a bag and headed for the superdome.

The only people with any real excuse are the elderly and the sick. They may not have been able to get in touch with anyone to get out.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Androidpk
I'm not going to make excuse for EVERYONE that chose not to evacuate. Of those people that did stay behind i'm sure 90% of them could evacuate, but there is always certain situations where people could not.

Of course. And it would have been a much smaller number and much easier for the help reliefs to take care of, and everyone would have been better off.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I kinda doubt that so many home owners have no car or money to get on alternate transportation.
When the home you own is in fact a two room tin shack and your main mode of transportation is a 15 year old bicycle that everyone in the family shares... it's sorta believable.

Seriously though, I agree with you and heard reports on the radio from people with family there that said some opted to stay instead of leave. Why in the hell they would not leave, crazyness.. (Not speaking about those who really had no way to leave the city)

[Ravenstorm]

I'd have to say there's a group even lower than looters trying to make a buck by taking advantage of tragedy:

Evangelicals who proclaim it's God's wrath and that the people of New Orleans have no one to blame but themselves for their sinful ways.

Raven

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Evangelicals who proclaim it's God's wrath and that the people of New Orleans have no one to blame but themselves for their sinful ways.

Raven

:wtf2: Shoot em.

[AnticorRifling]

Construction and waste management companies are going to make a killing off of this.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Construction and waste management companies are going to make a killing off of this.

I.E. The Mafia.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
I'd have to say there's a group even lower than looters trying to make a buck by taking advantage of tragedy:

Evangelicals who proclaim it's God's wrath and that the people of New Orleans have no one to blame but themselves for their sinful ways.

Raven

I knew it'd be only a matter of time before the religious dipshits started mouthing off. I haven't heard about it happening yet though. Where'd you hear it from?

I'm curious as to what their excuse will be for he destruction in Mississippi?

"Hurricane Katrina is God's wrath and that the people of New Orleans have no one to blame but themselves for their sinful ways!"

"What about the destruction in Mississippi?"

"Oh, uh....yeah them too, or something! Praise Jesus, repent now!"

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
I knew it'd be only a matter of time before the religious dipshits started mouthing off. I haven't heard about it happening yet though. Where'd you hear it from?

Who didn't expect Fred Phelps to say something? (http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html)

But there's also the Repent America idiots. (http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html)

Raven

[Hulkein]

Very good use of using the links to explain their content. You pass BBCode 101

[Celephais]

I enjoy quoting other people's links..

"Southern Decadence" has a history of filling the French Quarters section of the city with drunken homosexuals engaging in sex acts in the public streets and bars.
I always knew this day would come... I would have to decide between making fun of the south or the french. The pressure is too much, someone please come up with a good joke.

[Doyle Hargraves]

The ignorance of these religious zealots is utterly amazing.

Has anything been posted from them as to why "God" destroyed parts of Mississippi too? If God wanted to destroy New Orleans for being a place of sin, then only New Orleans would be destroyed, not other places nearby as well. Plus I'm sure that there were people that died that hate gays as much as these people do, and people that are as "wholesome" as these people think they are.

I'm quite sure God would be capable of controlling any weather he conjures up.

Obviously it's not the case and these people are just ignorant assholes, but if God really thought like these people say he does, then...

>join satan
You join Satan's group.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Farquar]

Where is this gay paradise this guy is imagining? Last I saw, it was blonde coeds from UTexas and Florida State giving head in the streets, not gays.

[Artha]

Well there you go. Sodomy, God's will, repent sinners, end nigh, etc.

[Killer Kitten]

I'd have a hard time taking myself off to a shelter while leaving my pets behind to be killed by the storm or die slowly of thirst and starvation when the area is declared 'unsafe' and the police won't let me back in to get them. I'd probably be tempted to hang in there and hope it won't get as bad as predicted, too.

I also heard that a lot of people in Mississippi couldn't afford a tank of gas to get out of the way. Apparently they live paycheck to paycheck and in those last days before the check comes a tank of gas is as out of reach for most of them as the moon.

As far as the looting goes, I'd sure as Hell take food, water, blankets, and clothing. I'd also grab toiletries if they were handy, I hate being dirty. A couple of paper plates to put the food on and something besides my fingers to eat it with wouldn't be bad either.

Sitting in my home, with everything I need around me, it's hard to imagine being stranded on a muddy street with absolutely nothing but the wet and filthy clothes I escaped in and my wet and filthy family who is depending upon me.

A lot of people might be hoping to trade those stolen electronics for food. I'd imagine that liquor would be a very valuable trade commodity as well.

[fiendwish]

Just glad I'm sitting on high ground under a cushy air-conditioner. I would be exceedingly arrogant to judge those less fortunate, particularly those grappling with a natural disaster of this size. Nobody earns a hurricane.

[Celephais]

I'm sure the religious zealots will bow down to that arguement, Doyle. God has always exercised extreme prejudice when cleansing.

"Hmmm, F this, I'm just gonna kill everyone but... That guy; Noah. I guess his kids can live too."

Not disagreeing with you, but logic doesn't work with them, fighting faith with logic is... well I've been reading all the offical phase change posts so... it's like they cast phase on faith, you can't combat it with anything real.

[ElanthianSiren]

God's will is a very convenient argument. It's like the one used to justify creationism that hinges on present phenomena instead of backing up a theory with past experiments.

Some nutcases in Kansas also claimed that it was everyone involved in the Tsunami's fault for their SINFUL behaviors. I roll my eyes and pray as many of those still in Miss, Ark, Louis as possible are going to be okay, guided by the spirit of an entity that would not wish harm upon others.

-M

[Vesi]

I read that one third of the population in New Orleans lives below poverty level. (and they live in the south part of town which is also the lowest area of town)
Wish I had the news source where I read that. I'm still thinking that most could have gotten to the Superdome. Heck, even I've walked from the Superdome to Bourbon Street before. (though I have to admit it was in a drunken haze in my younger days and we could have not been going in a straight line)

I really feel for those that had no way to get anywhere ... elderly, cripped, sick. I saw on one news source a woman sitting beside her dead husband's body crying because they couldn't put him anywhere. He died when his oxygyn ran out due to no electricity. (he had lung cancer)

Looting for food/water and other emergency items (flashlights and batteries come to mind) I wouldn't begrudge anyone.

I stayed up all night Monday (I live in Middle TN) just because the news service had all these warnings on TV (and there was no way I could sleep) about how high the winds could get here. Our electricity flickered (though people in my county did lose power we didn't) and I have a limb down in my backyard and that is it. After seeing damage even in the states that caught the aftermath, I feel very very lucky.

Trust me ... there will be more horror stories as the days go on. Looting will probably seem mild by then.

Has anyone seen the photos of the toxic waste? It just glows. I get sick thinking about what all is even in that water.

I also (and this is materialistic) get sick thinking of all the history that has probably been lost forever. New Orleans was full of it. (I lived there twice as a kid)

Vesi spilling her guts in the wrong thread

[Amber]

Originally posted by Celephais
This has nothing to do with if you were stealing to survive or for profit, this has to do with the color of your skin.


I may be wrong, but isn't the woman in the second picture african american too?

[Celephais]

Vesi spilling her guts in the wrong thread
As per the title of this thread, this thread is about hate, compassion can be found in 'AID' and threads with the words 'Help' or 'Teeoncy' in the titles.

That is terrible though, especially the elderly woman next to her dead husband, all of this sort of reminds me of "The Stand", except no marshal law yet.

ugg..
http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/08-05/0831water.jpg
Look at that loot sack she has...

Edit: had to make sure you knew that she was a looter, as per AP standard

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Celephais]

[Celephais]

Originally posted by Amber

Originally posted by Celephais
This has nothing to do with if you were stealing to survive or for profit, this has to do with the color of your skin.


I may be wrong, but isn't the woman in the second picture african american too?

You mean the one with six grocery bags and two umbrellas? Yeah, pretty sure she is... thinking about that a bit more I'm guessing you mean the one with the "couple" because there is no way you could "be wrong" about the umbrella lady.

On the source link there is a larger picture.. at best I'll give her tanned or hispanic. One of the quotes from the source sums up the necessary bigotry to cover her though:

Why would he have to clarify, I mean.... clearly that guy was black and so he probably stole it. The chick in the other picture was mexican, so she probably stole her crap, lucky she was with white guy to give her some credibility! But I hope they're not dating, cus we can all agree interracial couples are just wrong. Right?

Edit because I don't think I really answered what you were trying to address:
My contribution was two fold, A) derail the thread, B) Point out two definitions of looting, necessity (People finding bread to survive) and criminal (People looting diet pepsi to sell for crack money)

So it's not just the religious folks that are using this as an opportunity to oppress, its the media too (Media has always been anti-african american, turn on MTV for a minute if you can stand it)

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Celephais]

[Delirium]

Those quotes from the source site sound a lot like tongue in cheek. Id be willing to bet the one that said:


Be moderate people! Oh, and if you're white... keep finding bread, and if your black quit stealing the white people's bread.

is trying to be funny. They could probably use some tact but to take them at face value seems a bit weird.

Someone said that a third of the people in NO are under the poverty line. If the checks come out on the 1st of every month, i doubt its that much of a shock that loads of people didnt have money to evacuate. If your lil dingy tin hut is all you have, leaving it is a big deal. With the way the media sensationalizes everything, id have a hard time leaving my belongings as well.

[Celephais]

Ummm I hope you've taken all I said as tongue in cheek (and if not it doesn't really bother me).

The "white people keep finding bread" quote is from the same guy that said the interacial relationships are wrong.

I would also like to know what the actual cost of evacuation is. A car, gas in it, bus ticket cost, etc. Forget the future costs: value of things left behind. But is there actually a legitimate fiscal barrier to getting out (non-extenuating circumstances, like iron lung bound people needing airlift)?

This is going to sound insensitive but it's an analogy we can all relate to: (apparently racist is fine but this requires a cavet)
It's sort of like when a low level gets killed in an invasion. There are two general groups... they didn't know there was an invasion so they weren't able to avoid the risks (iron lung bound), or they knew there was an invasion and wanted to either see it thinking they would be fine ("I've lived through 10 hurricanes!") or they wanted to loot disarmed weapons ("Diet Pepsi").

It's hard to sympathise for the later two.

[Odysia]

That is terrible though, especially the elderly woman next to her dead husband, all of this sort of reminds me of "The Stand", except no marshal law yet.



I was thinking of The Stand as well. Creepy movie.

Marshal law has now been declared in New Orleans.

[Celephais]

Marshal law has now been declared in New Orleans.
about time.

[Asha]

I didn't read the whole thread but whenever I see people looting, it's usually those who are so desperate they WOULD loot.

But still to keep in with the thread, fuck them and they should die.
Even though I know I would if I had to, and my family depended on it.

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Drayal]

[Delirium]

It's sort of like when a low level gets killed in an invasion. There are two general groups... they didn't know there was an invasion so they weren't able to avoid the risks (iron lung bound), or they knew there was an invasion and wanted to either see it thinking they would be fine ("I've lived through 10 hurricanes!" or they wanted to loot disarmed weapons ("Diet Pepsi".

It's hard to sympathise for the later two.

I somehow doubt anyone stayed just so they could loot. This sort of thing(hurricanes/snow storms/tornadoes) gets sensationalized by the media all the time. Its easy to leave your crap when you can just go buy more crap. When its all youve got and the odds are slim of getting more then its harder. Waiting on possible gov't relief isnt all that comforting as who knows when. In that situation i wouldnt be holding my breath. Would i spend my last $20 for the week on gas so i could go to a city that i knew no one from(and could possibly be stranded) because maybe it will be as bad as they say? Probably not.

[Celephais]

Yeah, you're probably right, this guy was definatly worried about spending $20 on gas.
http://www.beerzombie.com/beerzombie/images/finding.jpg

I would group the people you mentioned under the "I've lived through 10 hurricanes" people, basically they didnt' heed the warning. Do you feel bad for the lowbie if you say "It's really bad out there" and they say "I'm sure it's not that bad, I'll go stance defensive and just check it out for a second"

Edit: flickr sucks.

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Celephais]

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Celephais]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Has anything been posted from them as to why "God" destroyed parts of Mississippi too?"God" is apparently a big fan of collateral damage and gave up on that whole "ten righteous people = spared city" thing.

Personally, I would leave my childhood home forever in a heartbeat if a storm the size of Texas was bearing down on me.

[Delirium]

Yeah, you're probably right, this guy was definatly worried about spending $20 on gas.

Poor guy cant even afford a shirt :whistle:

I guess my main point is if you want to look for reasons why people deserve bad things, most of the time you will find it. From the woman staying with the abusive spouse to the crack addict to those not evacuating.

[Celephais]

I agree with you there, I don't think anyone there deserved this, but all the information for them was there, it is up to them to do something with it. Not that they are of the mindset to listen, but that's all we can do from a pre-emptive standpoint.

I feel bad for them, but I feel worse for the people huddled in shelters who left all their posessions behind than the ones on the roof of a building awaiting airlift rescue with 240 cans of miller light. (Okay part of me feels really bad for them, but it was their own fault they didn't loot a good beer)

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Celephais]

[Revalos]

This is getting to be kind of like a microcosm of what every post-apocalyptic novel ever written talks about happening after the cataclysm.

Info from downtown is that some vigilantees have taken to the streets and are shooting whatever looters they find.

One family I know is attempting to help out at Charity Hospital, but the generator is dead and there's 10 feet of water outside the front doors. They already were told their home was looted late yesterday.

Great stuff really...shows what humanity is really like when you get down to the real thing...we haven't evolved since the Stone Age...we just got comfortable.

[HarmNone]

Damn, Revalos! I'm sorry about that family's home being looted. Sadly, it kinda gives some truth to the old adage: "No good deed goes unpunished." :(

I'd been following the happenings at Charity. You've got to give it to the staff there. They're working under abominable conditions. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for them, and for their patients. It hurts to think about it.

[Revalos]

Yeah...My parents are still fuming that they stayed down there instead of coming up to an empty house availiable in NC. But they have some good scruples to be doing what they are doing.

[HarmNone]

Damn straight, they do! I commend anyone who actually gets in there and does something about the horrors those poor people are facing. Neighbors pulling together is the only way they're ever going to be able to recoup any portion of their loss. :(

[Fission]

The sad thing is, it's just going to get worse before it gets better.

You've got real prizes out there like the ones that carjacked a nursing home bus, the armed thugs ambushing relief supply trucks at gunpoint, and some psychotic that killed his own sister over a bag of ice.

The only real contribution people like that can make to society at this point is as fertilizer, six feet under.

:mad:

[HarmNone]

From the sounds of the city mayor, that might just be where those folks end up, Fission. I think she's had it with the chaos, the looting, and the selfish behavior of those idiots. With the federal government finally mobilizing enough support to get things moving, I don't think the looters and chaos-mongers are going to have much more time for their peculiar brand of "fun".

[Celephais]

They should have been prepared for military intervence much sooner (Well if the troops weren't out spreading safety...).
It becomes a lot easier to put the value of a bag of ice in prespective when you've got an assault rifle pointed at you. $0.89 ~ 10 mins work < the rest of your life.

[Tromp]

I'm totally interested in seeing some of the less mainstream pics of this stuff if anyone can post or link direct. Thank you in advance for you response to this request.

[Androidpk]

Just saw this on the news.

"There were also reports that shots had been fired at an Army Chinook helicopter that was being used to get people away from the Superdome to buses for transport. "

:rolleyes:

[Gan]

More National Guardsmen are sent to Superdome after shots fired

09:05 AM CDT on Thursday, September 1, 2005


Associated Press



NEW ORLEANS -- The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday because of fires and gunshots outside the arena, authorities said, as National Guardsmen in armored vehicles poured into New Orleans to help restore order across the increasingly lawless and desperate city.

An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country were ordered into the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast to shore up security, rescue and relief operations in Katrina's wake. That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.

"The truth is, a terrible tragedy like this brings out the best in most people, brings out the worst in some people," said Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour on NBC's "Today" show. "We're trying to deal with looters as ruthlessly as we can get our hands on them."

The first of 500 busloads of people who were evacuated from the hot and stinking Louisiana Superdome arrived early Thursday at their new temporary home -- another sports arena, the Houston Astrodome, 350 miles away.

But the evacuation of the 25,000 or so storm refugees was abruptly suspended by the ambulance service in charge of taking the sick and injured from the Superdome and by the military, which was overseeing the removal of the able-bodied.

Richard Zeuschlag, chief of Acadian Ambulance, said shots were fired at a military helicopter, making it clear that it had become too dangerous for his air-ambulance pilots. And National Guard Lt. Col. Pete Schneider said the military suspended the ground evacuation because fires set outside the arena were preventing buses from getting close enough to pick people up.

President Bush urged a crackdown on the looting and other lawlessness that have spread through New Orleans.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this -- whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

On Wednesday, Mayor Ray Nagin offered the most startling estimate yet of the magnitude of the disaster: Asked how many people died in New Orleans, he said: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands." The death toll has already reached at least 110 in Mississippi.

If the estimate proves correct, it would make Katrina the worst natural disaster in the United States since at least the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, which was blamed for anywhere from about 500 to 6,000 deaths. Katrina would also be the nation's deadliest hurricane since 1900, when a storm in Galveston, Texas, killed between 6,000 and 12,000 people.

Nagin called for a total evacuation of New Orleans, saying the city had become uninhabitable for the 50,000 to 100,000 who remained behind after the city of nearly a half-million people was ordered evacuated over the weekend, before Katrina blasted the Gulf Coast with 145-mph winds.

The mayor said that it will be two or three months before the city is functioning again and that people would not be allowed back into their homes for at least a month or two.

With New Orleans sinking deeper into desperation, Nagin also ordered virtually the entire police force to abandon search-and-rescue efforts Wednesday and stop the increasingly brazen thieves.

"They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas -- hotels, hospitals, and we're going to stop it right now," Nagin said.

In a sign of growing lawlessness, Tenet HealthCare Corp. asked authorities late Wednesday to help evacuate a fully functioning hospital in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water and medical supplies was held up at gunpoint.

"There are physical threats to safety from roving bands of armed individuals with weapons who are threatening the safety of the hospital," said spokesman Steven Campanini. He estimated there were 350 employees in the hospital and between 125 to 150 patients.

Tempers flared elsewhere across the devastated region. Police said a man in Hattiesburg, Miss., fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice. Dozens of carjackings were reported, including a nursing home bus. One officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. Both were expected to survive.

Looters used garbage cans and inflatable mattresses to float away with food, clothes, TV sets -- even guns. Outside one pharmacy, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break through the glass. The driver of a nursing-home bus surrendered the vehicle to thugs after being threatened.

Hundreds of people wandered up and down shattered Interstate 10 -- the only major freeway leading into New Orleans from the east -- pushing shopping carts, laundry racks, anything they could find to carry their belongings.

On some of the few roads that were still open, people waved at passing cars with empty water jugs, begging for relief. Hundreds of people appeared to have spent the night on a crippled highway.

The floodwaters streamed into the city's streets from two levee breaks near Lake Pontchartrain a day after New Orleans thought it had escaped catastrophic damage from Katrina. The floodwaters covered 80 percent of the city, in some areas 20 feet deep, in a reddish-brown soup of sewage, gasoline and garbage.

The Army Corps of Engineers said it planned to use heavy-duty Chinook helicopters to drop 15,000-pound bags of sand and stone into a 500-foot gap in the failed floodwall.

But the agency said it was having trouble getting the sandbags and dozens of 15-foot highway barriers to the site because the city's waterways were blocked by loose barges, boats and large debris.

The full magnitude of the disaster had been unclear for days -- in part, because some areas in both coastal Mississippi and Louisiana are still unreachable, but also because authorities' first priority has been reaching the living.

In Mississippi, for example, ambulances roamed through the passable streets of devastated places such as Biloxi, Gulfport, Waveland and Bay St. Louis, in some cases speeding past corpses in hopes of saving people trapped in flooded and crumbled buildings.

[DeV]

Hell on earth.

[Gan]

Human nature can be pretty bad if you look deep enough, even in 'civilized' societies.

[Fission]

It took less than a week for 'civilized' people to achieve this state. Wonder how these people are going to deal with each other once some semblance of normalcy is restored there.

[Shonison]

The news this morning talked of a nursing home attacked by bandits, who took all of their 10 days worth of food, then carjacked the bus out front. Now don't get me wrong, I feel that stealing food or medicine from grocery stores is fine in a situation like this (it's going to spoil anyway), but if you attack others, that is just low. I'm glad to hear martial law has been declared. Looters should be shot on sight...to say nothing of those taking pot shots at rescue helicopters. I'd want a slow and painful death for them, but a gun to the head will suffice.

[Gan]

This display of human depravity is exactly why I have firearms in my house and the ability and training to protect my family until a safer place can be found away from the chaos/anarchy.

Firing on the rescue helicopters was sheer stupidity. I'm becoming concerned that when we relocate everyone to Houston that this will spill over into Houston. The area around the Astrodome might become a war zone until more permanent living places can be obtained. Even with the assurances from my friend in HPD that the city is gearing up for all possible threat scenarios, it still is going to be a challenge. Thank goodness that we have the city police (HPD), Harris county constables, Harris county sherrif dept, Metro police, and the Texas DPS all existing within our region.

[Celephais]

From my (stereotyped) knowledge of texas and their self pride, I have a feeling they won't be taking any shit from these refugees, (again stereotype) texas are historically heavy handed in dishing out crimestopping justice and are well armed. If the dome-ites try to riot in Houston I have a feeling they'll meet stern opposition, local militia style.

Edit:spelling..

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Celephais]

[Gan]

I think there will be a heavy presence of law enforcement to protect those that are from Lousiana as well as those who might try to prey upon those from Louisana.

I dont believe that you'll see Houstonians armed and in the streets should it get crazy. However, I do know that folks will not hesitate to use force to protect their homes or businesses should violence come wandering their way.

[Celephais]

However, I do know that folks will not hesitate to use force to protect their homes or businesses should violence come wandering their way.That's the part I meant. I guess the militia comment was off, and I certainly don't expect the Lousiana folk to be in any risk from the Texans unless they are rioting. If they are rioting, well I have a great swell of pity for anyone who goes to that dome looking for trouble.

[Asha]

Yeah looting to feed yourself and your loved ones is so bad.
Especially since they're not recieving any help, and haven't eaten in 5 days.
Probably already been said.
It needed saying again, if it had.

[Doyle Hargraves]

So you're saying it's ok to steal from sick old people and shoot a sibling in the head over a bag of ice?

Right.

[peam]

Scary stuff.

FEMA's aborted rescue missions in parts of NO, due to armed looters.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html#fema

[Asha]

::punch pulled::


But Doyle, what you said I would say OK to was fucking low, you arsehole.



[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Drayal]

[Doyle Hargraves]

That's what I got from reading your post. Sounded sarcastic to me, considering most of the other posts are talking about looters and people carjacking nursing home buses.

Let me show you again:


Yeah looting to feed yourself and your loved ones is so bad.
Especially since they're not recieving any help, and haven't eaten in 5 days.
Probably already been said.
It needed saying again, if it had.

You came across sounding like the asshole, not me.

[Asha]

You think I endorse maiming siblings and stealing from the sick and elderly?
I'm a fucking human being you shit.
Thats a million years from what I thought.

Stop being angry at me and fucking drop the hurt puppy act, you fuck.

[CrystalTears]

If they hadn't eaten in five days, then they had more issues to worry about than the hurricane, since they were hit three days ago.

And I'm sorry but I don't condone any kind of looting when there are other ways to get food and water. I'm still not convinced with even grocery stores. I saw on the news a guy with 4 huge boxes of chocolate. Yeah.. staples to live.. whatever.

Looting occurs with all hurricanes.. not because of need, but because they can. I remember when people were looting after Hurricane Andrew. Many businesses were able to open a day or two after the storm, however people still felt the need to destroy property, both public and private, to get items. I don't buy the "need" stance in every case.. I just don't. I've seen it too many times and it appauls me that people stoop so low.

[Doyle Hargraves]

How about you learn how to get your point across when you post then? Read your post again, then read it again. Maybe those rusty gears inside your head will comprehend the point I'm trying to make.

Actually fuck that, I'll just spell it out for you:

<insert post after post about people carjacking nursing homes, shooting siblings over ice, etc.>

Which is followed by your post, whose opening statement is:


Yeah looting to feed yourself and your loved ones is so bad.

^ Sounds sarcastic. Get my point? People aren't looting stores now, they're looting each other. That statement gives the impression that it's ok to do those things as long as you're doing it to feed yourself and your family.

If that's too much for you to comprehend, feel free to eat my shit, you fuck.

Btw I'm not angry at you. It's really hard to be angry at someone I honestly couldn't give a rat's ass about.


and fucking drop the hurt puppy act,

Don't you have something else to do right now, like suck a cock or slit your wrists?

[Edited on 9-1-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Sean of the Thread]

Now they have opened fire on hospital evacuations.

BREAKING NEWS

New Orleans hospital halts patient evacuations after coming under sniper fire, a doctor who witnessed the incident says. More soon.

Wonderful. In my opinion this has been handled poorly from the beginning.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Wonderful. In my opinion this has been handled poorly from the beginning. This is exactly what I've concluded from reading all of this.

[Hulkein]

I've concluded that there is a larger than normal percentage of lowlife pieces of shit in New Orleans.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Shonison
The news this morning talked of a nursing home attacked by bandits, who took all of their 10 days worth of food, then carjacked the bus out front. Now don't get me wrong, I feel that stealing food or medicine from grocery stores is fine in a situation like this (it's going to spoil anyway), but if you attack others, that is just low. I'm glad to hear martial law has been declared. Looters should be shot on sight...to say nothing of those taking pot shots at rescue helicopters. I'd want a slow and painful death for them, but a gun to the head will suffice.


It all comes down to survival of the fitest, right or wrong. If I was standing near by and had a gun, sure I'd shoot them dead.. but right now if people think they need something to live, they are going to go after whatever they can get.

I don't look down on those who steal from stores etc in a time like this...anything else is wrong though.

[AnticorRifling]

I heard one of the looters sold their character only to not sell it and lie about it while changing screen names like 5 times. It's crazy.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I've concluded that there is a larger than normal percentage of lowlife pieces of shit in New Orleans. That too. I was going to add something about the crime rate being pretty horrific there before this happened. The murder rate was like #1 back in 2003 but I'm not sure what it is now. One of the main reasons I think it was handled poorly.

[Sean of the Thread]

5 pages later might be a little late to ask.. but do maggots actually suck scum?

[Gan]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I heard one of the looters sold their character only to not sell it and lie about it while changing screen names like 5 times. It's crazy.

:lol2:

[ElanthianSiren]

What I found amusing was that the head of FEMA was on CNN last night, talking about how well he had anticipated this all.

Now, if you were anticipating well, you'd have known that the canals were only approved for a category 3, not a category 5, as they were calling this storm and sandbagged them BEFORE, not after. You'd also have had Bush's "whatever you need" beforehand, not two days later.

Give me an f'in break. I'm so disgusted at the reactions of government and some people (ie people who feel the need to steal from OLD SICK people regardless of the case), I'm going to vomit.

-M

[Fission]

As far as the reactions to people, it's gone way past looting, for survival or no.

You've got the armed gangs, people sniping at hospitals and rescue workers, and now word coming out that a number of the storm victims have been beaten and raped on top of everything else. I'm sure that was necessary for survival, too.

I'll bet the fucks in Al-Qaida and their brothers in arms are giggling like little schoolgirls about what we're doing to ourselves in the aftermath of this disaster.

[Warriorbird]

The Louisiana and apparently Arkansas? National Guards are now shooting to kill on looters, under the orders of Katherine Blanco.

[Asha]

Majority of cops have left their posts fearing for their lives, the looters are so out of control.
They'll probably be shot for breaking into hotels, for the shelter, food and higher ground.
I really can't see any way out of this. No way of saving such a mess the country was warned of, but totally unprepared for.

[CrystalTears]

Not exactly sure how you plan for something like this. I keep hearing how "unprepared" everyone was, and I'm just wondering what ideas some of you had to house 25,000 people.

[Sean of the Thread]

I do think there is alot of overreacting going on especially from the liberal media who are like "OH GAAAWWD THE HUMANITY" every 10 seconds. I have been dodging hurricanes most of my life... only so much you can do to prepare really and when they tell you to get the fuck out.. get the fuck out. After years of warnings that end up in hurricane parties you start to feel bullet proof.. the "won't hit us as usual" mentality.

[Asha]

I have no clue where your country would house those people.
But to move them to a higher ground before hand would have been easier and safer before the flooding.

No clue where you'd house them though. That's probably impossible.

[Asha]

Originally posted by Xyelin
I do think there is alot of overreacting going on especially from the liberal media who are like "OH GAAAWWD THE HUMANITY" every 10 seconds. I have been dodging hurricanes most of my life... only so much you can do to prepare really and when they tell you to get the fuck out.. get the fuck out. After years of warnings that end up in hurricane parties you start to feel bullet proof.. the "won't hit us as usual" mentality.

They're leaving the old, the sick and the badly injured to die becouse there's not enough medicine or nurses/doctors to help them.
So yeah, ''OH GAAAWWD THE HUMANITY''.

But the bulletproof way of thinking, you mentioned was spot on, man.
That and the fact some of them felt they couldn't leave if they wanted to.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Drayal

They're leaving the old, the sick and the badly injured to die becouse there's not enough medicine or nurses/doctors to help them.
So yeah, ''OH GAAAWWD THE HUMANITY''.

But the bulletproof way of thinking, you mentioned was spot on, man.
That and the fact some of them felt they couldn't leave if they wanted to.

Yup.. no one is doing anything to help these people. Yup, just leaving them to die.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Drayal
I have no clue where your country would house those people.
But to move them to a higher ground before hand would have been easier and safer before the flooding.

No clue where you'd house them though. That's probably impossible.

Not impossible, at all. Difficult, yes. A logistics nightmare, yes. However, this is a big country, and we do have the ability to house these people until such time as more permanent places can be found for them. It will just take all the states pulling together, and the government assisting with the logistics and transport.

It CAN be done.

[Drezzt]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Looting other peoples personal property is pretty bad.

Looting a store for a TV is pretty bad.

Looting a grocery store for food/supplies isn't wrong at all, in my opinion.

[Edited on 8-31-2005 by Hulkein]


I have to chime in here, though I might do it myself, it's still wrong.

Stealing = Wrong.

And did you guys hear about the nutjobs down there SHOOTING at relief aircraft and workers?
That's part of the reason that they're not getting any more help.
All it takes is a few bad apples to spoil it for the whole bunch.

On one hand I wish they could just shoot back, but then again who wants a firefight in Ne' Ar'lens (new orleans for you folks in rio linda) against regular, desperate people?

[Wezas]

"When you have a situation as extreme as Katrina, people have lost their sense of security, control, protection and shelter," said David Sattler, associate professor of psychology at Western Washington University. "They fall into basic rules of survival mode. Some feel that they're going to do what they need to do to survive. They're going to do what they need to do to get the basic necessities."

In an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America's" Diane Sawyer, President Bush said there should be a no-tolerance approach to looters.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this"

[Sean of the Thread]

If they are not in the designated evac areas and are roaming the streets and able bodied my guess it there is criminal intent and they need to be treated as such.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Xyelin]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Drezzt
And did you guys hear about the nutjobs down there SHOOTING at relief aircraft and workers?
Yes, but morally, those relief workers should be risking their lives to save the nutjobs right...? It's their duty as a human being according to some. Tough situation to be in that's for sure.

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Drayal
I have no clue where your country would house those people.
But to move them to a higher ground before hand would have been easier and safer before the flooding.

No clue where you'd house them though. That's probably impossible.


I believe this was attempted when everyone was told it was Mandatory Evacuation. Should the local police have forced everyone out of the city as criminals rather then using resources to help those that wanted out in a civil manner?

Also, I watched a press conference with FEMA yesterday and he emphasized that the reason it's taking so long to get things in order is...

1. They didn't realize how many troops would need to be mobilized because they didn't know how many people would actually IGNORE mandatory evacuations or that the levees would break as they did. Hence, it's taking time to mobilize thousands of troops.

2. Areas need to be cleaned in order to get more aid to people. Cleaning debris from airports so they can fly people out. Finding new routes to get places because original routes had been flooded, etc. etc.

I think everyone and the media needs to stop focusing on the retardedness of the looters and realize that the government and everyone that has a heart is indeed doing everything they can to help. There are stories of random people picking up children and walking them through the water since they’re too small to stand in it. People have been taking others into their homes for shelter. The Texas government is not only ready to shelter, but also help these people start new lives. It’s been less then a week! I think people need to start giving credit to those that deserve it rather than focusing on those that only deserve to be pissed on.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Jadewolff]

[Drezzt]

Yes, but morally, those relief workers should be risking their lives to save the nutjobs right...? It's their duty as a human being according to some. Tough situation to be in that's for sure.

Um...No, I don't think giving supplies to the stranded should be a "risk your life" kind of job. If so, it shouldnt be relief workers from the red cross, it should be soldiers that are trained to handle this type of situation. :)

[Sean of the Thread]

For example here in Pinellas county.. when there is a mandatory evacuation of the barrier islands or beaches and people refuse to leave they are told up front that there will be NO emergency services provided to them so basically go fuck yourself. They won't endanger emergency workers because of their stupidity. They do however do everything possible to help the willing and unable to evac and believe me there are LOTS of disabled and elderly beach dwellers that get the fuck out of dodge.

[Back]

Originally posted by Xyelin
I do think there is alot of overreacting going on especially from the liberal media who are like "OH GAAAWWD THE HUMANITY" every 10 seconds. I have been dodging hurricanes most of my life... only so much you can do to prepare really and when they tell you to get the fuck out.. get the fuck out. After years of warnings that end up in hurricane parties you start to feel bullet proof.. the "won't hit us as usual" mentality.

Going to agree with you about the media being sensationalist about all this. The media always is. Case in point: after living in white-bread suburbia for most of my life the prospect of living in NYC was scary as hell. Where did my impression come from? The media. I went there, lived there, and had the best time of my life and was only ever hassled by drunken fools.

To say its not as bad as the media makes it out to be in this case might not be accurate. But, when you see a looter on your tv on every other chanel ever other minute I’m guessing that people are going to think that all the people left in the city are criminals. Throw in a story about a rape, a shooting and then everyone’s impression goes down the drain.

Real criminals probably make up less than 1% of the people stuck there. The real people are elderly, children, church going folks and they need the help badly.

PS. I disagree that the media is liberal through. FOX will lead you to believe that, but its really corporate media.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Backlash]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Drezzt
Um...No, I don't think giving supplies to the stranded should be a "risk your life" kind of job. Ah, and neither do I Drezzt. It was sort of an off shoot comment from another thread. Devil's advocate so to speak.
If so, it shouldnt be relief workers from the red cross, it should be soldiers that are trained to handle this type of situation. :) Agreed.

[Back]

At this point looting is the least of problems. Seriously. I say let them loot as much as they want. A) The owners are gone and are insured. B) They can’t loot all that much and get on a bus to get out. C) Human life is far more important than a tv.

[Sean of the Thread]

Wow excellent logic.

[Back]

And sending troops in with M-16s is? Fuck the property. Its as good as gone anyway. People desperately need help getting out of there.

[Sean of the Thread]

It's M-4's and no shit sherlock.

[Warriorbird]

Eh? I thought the Guard had M16s.

I think they should definitely be there though.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Eh? I thought the Guard had M16s.

I think they should definitely be there though.

I agree. Although I don't see what it matters what weapon they are using, the looters need to be dealt with.

[Seran]

I think the "looting for food and water" line is a bunch of bull. A good majority of the looting is involving perscription drugs, electronics, and jewelry. The fact is, those people decided not to leave and are now throwing fits and commiting crimes as they're not getting the help they feel they're "entitled" to.

Expect any moment for the NAACP to get into this, as the huge majority of looters thus far have been young and middle aged black men. Of course, with martial law, you'll have alot of young and middle aged white men with some serious race issues given free reign on how to deal with it all. Should be interesting.

[Sean of the Thread]

Hell yeah.. they need to restore ORDER for a more rapid evacuation.

The weapon was just me being a smartass out of frustration but they actually use both as M16A2's fall out of operational existance.

Frustrated because some people don't understand that bringing in troops and restoring order is VITAL to helping evac these poor people. The property isn't the main issue.. lawlessness might be however. Really by now there isn't much left but overturned shells.

Help them! Help them! Fuck the troops! WTF HELP THEM. Somebody do something! NO FUKIN SHIT. They are trying.

[ElanthianSiren]

All that water damaged stuff is getting written off as damaged anyway. IMO this is an argument over stealing for profit or stealing for survival.

PROFIT LOOTING -- What's interesting to note is that if the levee system ultimately fails in its entirety (looks probable to me IMO based on my *given* limited understanding of the system, its age, and its health), those are going to be some of the richest dead looters stinking up sodden falling apart buildings.

SURVIVAL LOOTING -- As FEMA can't get aid in to those people, I think it's completely logical, given the fact that they are desperate people who do not have access to mass media to know the government is trying to help them, that they are resorting to hand to mouth tactics to remain living.

Blind faith in our government to manage these people days after this hurricane is easy for us to have, as we sit sipping soft drinks and reading our computer screens. I think, if I were stuck in NO, it would be much harder. To deny that you might start to question the intent of government after almost a week without food or clean water or sanitation is an argument that goes against the most basic human psychology IMO.

I don't think reporters, even with technology, stationed in NO are impervious to the kind of despair of watching dead bodies float by them in the richest country in the world.

-M

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Hell yeah.. they need to restore ORDER for a more rapid evacuation.

The weapon was just me being a smartass out of frustration but they actually use both as M16A2's fall out of operational existance.

Frustrated because some people don't understand that bringing in troops and restoring order is VITAL to helping evac these poor people. The property isn't the main issue.. lawlessness might be however. Really by now there isn't much left but overturned shells.

Help them! Help them! Fuck the troops! WTF HELP THEM. Somebody do something! NO FUKIN SHIT. They are trying.

I will never deny that they are trying. What bothers me is the fact that the Bush administration was warned of the vulnerability of NO in 2003-2004 by their risk assessment team and still chose to drastically scrap the funds to the military corp of engineers to fund the Iraq war.

I'm aggitated because FEMA keeps coming out saying how well they anticipated this. If that were true, they would have known Katrina was a cat 4-5 and that the New Orleans levees were only approved for a cat 3. Supplies would have been housed in warehouses bordering these three states (maybe even Texas), and a mandatory evacuation plan would have been coordinated with a large transport system (like Amtrak). They could have modelled the emergency response, in part, from Portland, Oregon, which I read after 911, had mand evac and apocolypse-like systems in place.

I was particularly disgusted by President Bush's response, which was both lighthearted and flippant IMO when it was not evasive, (and I was watching Live, so there was no media slant on it).

I am disgusted because we seem to be having problems accepting help from other countries when we need it. I am disgusted because a friend of mine is in the air corps and was supposed to be on the borders of those states the day before the hurricane hit. That mission was scrapped. I am irritated because a serious threat (cat 4-5 hurricane) was so drastically downplayed by *everyone* in this situation.

-M

[CrystalTears]

*sigh* And how do you propose they could have prevented this, or made it "smoother"? Force people at gunpoint to leave?

No suggestion would have been the best, and any attempt would not have been enough because as much as they knew this would be a problem, no one knew it would be this bad.

No one ever knows how a hurricane will impact an area. Even when you think it will be really bad it turns out better. A category 3 could have wiped out that city as well, it all depends on what that hurricane entails.

It saddens me that people bring up the war at a time like this, that people react as though nothing is being done about it when there is, just not at the scale that it could be. It will not be easy to resolve, and I don't like to hear people come off as though it could have been.

[Sean of the Thread]

Spot on.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

No suggestion would have been the best, and any attempt would not have been enough because as much as they knew this would be a problem, no one knew it would be this bad.

No one ever knows how a hurricane will impact an area. Even when you think it will be really bad it turns out better. A category 3 could have wiped out that city as well, it all depends on what that hurricane entails.

It saddens me that people bring up the war at a time like this, that people react as though nothing is being done about it when there is, just not at the scale that it could be. It will not be easy to resolve, and I don't like to hear people come off as though it could have been.

So instead they did nothing beforehand, and that should be okay? I'm sorry, I don't think that should be okay. I'm big on prevention.

I only bring up the war because the corp of engineers was working on revamping the levee system. Money was needed for the war, so money was diverted from many other programs, including that one.

They were repeatedly warned and chose to ignore the potential ramifications if such a hurricane were to hit. Scientists can predict how bad a hit will be given factors like wetland errosion (check for all coastal gulph communities), tree cover (or lack thereof in NO), and health of sand and other rock beds, as well as the levee system.


-M

[Sean of the Thread]

Next you're gonna say Al Qaeda seeded the clouds over SA to cause the hurricane.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I only bring up the war because the corp of engineers was working on revamping the levee system. Money was needed for the war, so money was diverted from many other programs, including that one.

They were repeatedly warned and chose to ignore the potential ramifications if such a hurricane were to hit. Scientists can predict how bad a hit will be given factors like wetland errosion (check for all coastal gulph communities), tree cover (or lack thereof in NO), and health of sand and other rock beds, as well as the levee system.

-M
Even a representative of the Army corp of Engineers admitted that they were stretched thinner due to the iraq rebuilding process and that yes if more funds had been available that were being needed elsewhere they could have completed more of the levee improvements that had been planned.

Of course they still may not have held against Katrina's fury, but they would have had a better chance at least.

[Iooy]

In the New York Times today they have reported that people in NO are shooting at the rescue helicopters. This is probably some sort of group which is trying to loot the area whom do not want anyone to enter yet. News crews are being pulled due to the violent area, the stations are fearing for the safety of the reporters.

Where is the National Guard? Why has no one including the president pulled forces from other states/regions to help this area maintain control? Why do we still care what happens in Iraq if we have such a mess on our hands in the US?

Take care of ourselves first, then worry about the rest of the world. We have yet to do this.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Iooy

Where is the National Guard? Why has no one including the president pulled forces from other states/regions to help this area maintain control?


Uhm they have.

[Back]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Next you're gonna say Al Qaeda seeded the clouds over SA to cause the hurricane.

Naw man, its all the SUVs the neocons drive that did it.

[CrystalTears]

What prevention do you suggest? I'm being serious. As this will help ALL states that are hit by hurricanes yearly, what do you suggest should be done as a preventive measure?

Money for war is not diverted anywhere. It's just there, so to speak.

So they knew there was a hurricane heading towards New Orleans. In 3 days what kind of work do you think can be done on the levee in that short amount of time? Preventive measures should have been done to that YEARS ago, not 2 days before the hurricane. The place is a swamp. How do you fix that in 48 hours?

The ones who ignored the ramifications and potential dangers of this hurricane were the people living there. I do realize that not everyone has the means to leave the city, but seeing as how they knew it was coming and they live in the fucking swamp, they could have gone to seek shelter in the stadium at least. Oh no, I want to wade it out in my little tin shack that a hard wind knocks over.

People in sturdier houses left knowing the dangers, why didn't they? For their stuff? And now they are looting to get more stuff? Not buying it.

[Skirmisher]

Oh, well i'm not defending anyone taking anything outside of food and water.

They can be shot as far as I care, but my only concern is knowing for sure who is taking food and who it taking valuables.

From the descriptions, I think by tonight or tomorrow things should be much more under control at least looterwise. I surely hope so as it is quickly becoming a moot point to those dying every minute all the rescues are delayed.

[CrystalTears]

Delayed because of the debris left by the storm. It has not been easy. But according to some, it should have been a no brainer. :rolleyes:

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
What prevention do you suggest? I'm being serious. As this will help ALL states that are hit by hurricanes yearly, what do you suggest should be done as a preventive measure?

So they knew there was a hurricane heading towards New Orleans. In 3 days what kind of work do you think can be done on the levee in that short amount of time? Preventive measures should have been done to that YEARS ago, not 2 days before the hurricane. The place is a swamp. How do you fix that in 48 hours?

The ones who ignored the ramifications and potential dangers of this hurricane were the people living there.

I already listed the preventative measures that could have been taken. I would have modelled the coastal regions off of other coastal regions prone to similiar (not exact but similiar) disaster situations (ie Portland and Seattle).

Hon, the army corps have been working on the levees for years. They recently had their funding cut and the project was interrupted. Saw it on Aaron Brown last night with probably the same interview Skirm saw.

True, those people did act foolishly. The Bush administration, in particular, however though was also warned about the vulnerability of this type of storm in coastal regions (specifically NO), after which, they chose to pull levee funding. That was why I noted in an earlier post that everyone behaved irresponsibly to a degree.

-M

[Skirmisher]

Sorry to not have been more clear, I meant delayed due to the danger to the rescuers by the chaos.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren

Originally posted by CrystalTears
What prevention do you suggest? I'm being serious. As this will help ALL states that are hit by hurricanes yearly, what do you suggest should be done as a preventive measure?

So they knew there was a hurricane heading towards New Orleans. In 3 days what kind of work do you think can be done on the levee in that short amount of time? Preventive measures should have been done to that YEARS ago, not 2 days before the hurricane. The place is a swamp. How do you fix that in 48 hours?

The ones who ignored the ramifications and potential dangers of this hurricane were the people living there.

I already listed the preventative measures that could have been taken. I would have modelled the coastal regions off of other coastal regions prone to similiar (not exact but similiar) disaster situations (ie Portland and Seattle).

Hon, the army corps have been working on the levees for years. They recently had their funding cut and the project was interrupted. Saw it on Aaron Brown last night with probably the same interview Skirm saw.

True, those people did act foolishly. The Bush administration, in particular, however though was also warned about the vulnerability of this type of storm in coastal regions (specifically NO), after which, they chose to pull levee funding. That was why I noted in an earlier post that everyone behaved irresponsibly to a degree.

-M

By the same logic Thomas Jefferson is to blame for not doing something preventive in 1803.

[Warriorbird]

Well, I think the only knock that can be made at the war is the local Army Corps of Engineers flood prevention budget in NO was cut over the Iraq war. I don't think that's a matter that can really be blamed on either party, because while I don't think the war would be happening without the Republicans, the Democrats sure love cutting funding to war efforts.

[CrystalTears]

Considering that Portland and Seattle are not swamp lands, I don't think the situations would be the same. The hurricanes are not the same, some bring heavy rains, some bring heavy winds, some bring tornadoes, some bring all three. Some move fast, some move slow... you just don't know.

I keep hearing Sam Kinnison in my head in a time like this "YOU'RE LIVING ON WATER! HOW DO YOU THINK YOU'LL LIVE IN THE SWAMP??!" Course he was yelling about sand at the time, but still, I can hear him. :D

[Sean of the Thread]

If you can hear Sam Kinnison in your head or anyone else for that matter I'd seek help.

[CrystalTears]

You're just jealous because the voices speak to me, not you. ;)

[ElanthianSiren]

Portland and Seattle have excellent evacuation and apocolypse systems in place after 911. I was not speaking strictly to the hurricane, more how to deal with the survivors left there, though Seattle also does provide a model for re-building atop of debris, if they chose to use that.

To deal with the hurricane, I would have allowed the army corps of engineers to do their jobs. You can't ask more than that structurally, unless you want to get into wetland recovery discussions.

From a human aspect, you can ask more, however. Why was my friend's mission the day before scrapped, for instance? Why weren't housed supplies waiting just outside potential crisis areas in case of emergency? Was it not worth the money that prevention would cost for these three states (though I haven't heard much out of Alabama)? Many, very uncomfortable questions.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

Well if you got the answers maybe you should be in charge.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Well if you got the answers maybe you should be in charge.

In a broad sense, I am fond of systems, not people. I recognize that to be in politics, you should care very deeply for the people you are responsible for. It takes me a good while to warm up to people.

-M

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The Bush administration, in particular, however though was also warned about the vulnerability of this type of storm in coastal regions (specifically NO), after which, they chose to pull levee funding.And here I thought Congress approved the budget. Of course, I also thought Congress was in charge of sending us to wars.

[Sean of the Thread]

Massive supply convoy is trucking thru the streets to the convention center. Everyone can stop screaming WHY ARE THEY NOT HERE!! now.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Xyelin]

[Back]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Massive supply convoy is trucking thru the streets to the convention. Everyone can stop screaming WHY ARE THEY NOT HEAR!! now.

Maybe the Mayor of New Orleans will stop bitching now huh?

Maybe the elderly and children who have had no food and water for a week can quit bitching eh?

Maybe those good people who were stuck in that hellish situation can quit bitching ya think?

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Backlash]

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The Bush administration, in particular, however though was also warned about the vulnerability of this type of storm in coastal regions (specifically NO), after which, they chose to pull levee funding.And here I thought Congress approved the budget. Of course, I also thought Congress was in charge of sending us to wars.

Actually, Congress is in charge of authorizing the president to use force when unavoidable in the case of Iraq, if that's what you're getting at.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Xyelin
Massive supply convoy is trucking thru the streets to the convention. Everyone can stop screaming WHY ARE THEY NOT HEAR!! now.

Maybe the Mayor of New Orleans will stop bitching now huh?

Maybe the elderly and children who have had no food and water for a week can quit bitching eh?

Maybe those good people who were stuck in that hellish situation can quit bitching ya think?

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Backlash]

Yeah I think. The bitching wasn't helping.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Massive supply convoy is trucking thru the streets to the convention center. Everyone can stop screaming WHY ARE THEY NOT HERE!! now.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Xyelin]

Thank goodness. I hope after this, someone will model/remodel some disaster systems for (especially) prone areas so things of this magnitude do not happen again. IMO, you need to learn from the past.

-M

[CrystalTears]

Yeah. Don't build on the swamp. :D

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Yeah I think. The bitching wasn't helping.

And you obviously are.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Xyelin

Yeah I think. The bitching wasn't helping.

And you obviously are.

Was there a point to that?

[Skirmisher]

No moreso than your bitching about people in pain and need complaining I guess.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
No moreso than your bitching about people in pain and need complaining I guess.

I didn't think there was a valid point.

[CrystalTears]

And here I thought he was talking about the bitching done here.

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren

Originally posted by CrystalTears
What prevention do you suggest? I'm being serious. As this will help ALL states that are hit by hurricanes yearly, what do you suggest should be done as a preventive measure?

So they knew there was a hurricane heading towards New Orleans. In 3 days what kind of work do you think can be done on the levee in that short amount of time? Preventive measures should have been done to that YEARS ago, not 2 days before the hurricane. The place is a swamp. How do you fix that in 48 hours?

The ones who ignored the ramifications and potential dangers of this hurricane were the people living there.

I already listed the preventative measures that could have been taken. I would have modelled the coastal regions off of other coastal regions prone to similiar (not exact but similiar) disaster situations (ie Portland and Seattle).

Hon, the army corps have been working on the levees for years. They recently had their funding cut and the project was interrupted. Saw it on Aaron Brown last night with probably the same interview Skirm saw.

True, those people did act foolishly. The Bush administration, in particular, however though was also warned about the vulnerability of this type of storm in coastal regions (specifically NO), after which, they chose to pull levee funding. That was why I noted in an earlier post that everyone behaved irresponsibly to a degree.

-M
stop talking out of your ass, thanks.

The president does not say where the money goes.
That is your congress, and in this case the Department of the Army.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Dave]

[Skirmisher]

I guess it's possible CT, I thought this post was pretty straightforward though.


Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Backlash
Maybe the Mayor of New Orleans will stop bitching now huh?

Maybe the elderly and children who have had no food and water for a week can quit bitching eh?

Maybe those good people who were stuck in that hellish situation can quit bitching ya think?

Yeah I think. The bitching wasn't helping.

[Sean of the Thread]

Was it helping?

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren


From a human aspect, you can ask more, however. Why was my friend's mission the day before scrapped, for instance? Why weren't housed supplies waiting just outside potential crisis areas in case of emergency? Was it not worth the money that prevention would cost for these three states (though I haven't heard much out of Alabama)? Many, very uncomfortable questions.

-M

And it is obvious that it was the President who made these decisions. His own signature scraped your friends mission.

[Seran]

And in walks the NAACP with the race card!

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Primetime/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1089382&page=1

[Back]

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses' (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html)


(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

When your people are dying in the streets, and you are screaming as loud as you can for help and its not coming, do you stop?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Was it helping?

You are talking about people who had found themselves left abandoned to the mercies of roving bands of gangs, no potable water, no food and glaring heat and you thought it appropriate sitting home comfortably to harass them for complaining.

I'd say they helped more than you did, yes.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Backlash
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses' (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html)


(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

When your people are dying in the streets, and you are screaming as loud as you can for help and its not coming, do you stop?

If I was rational.. YES.

[Tisket]

Disasters bring out the worst in some people but it also causes far more people to rise above. For every instance of looting etc there will be many, many more instances of people going above and beyond to help others. I think more of those types stories will trickle out as time goes by.

[Warriorbird]

It wasn't the President's fault the funding was cut. A close friend of mine's father is in the Army Corps of Engineers. It was due to Congress.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Skirmisher
No moreso than your bitching about people in pain and need complaining I guess.

I didn't think there was a valid point.

Just ignore the pointless jabs, it's less frustrating that way.

[Warriorbird]

I think moral judgements are hard at times like these.

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-refuge-in-the-Astrodome

[Gan]

I think the kid deserves a medal for grabbing the bus and getting the people out. Not to mention having the wherewithall to get it fueled for the 7 hour hell ride to Houston.

"Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control."

As long as the definition of abandoned means that it was not running, about to be in use, or intended for immediate use by local authorities or the owner of said vehicle.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I think the kid deserves a medal for grabbing the bus and getting the people out. Not to mention having the wherewithall to get it fueled for the 7 hour hell ride to Houston.

"Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned on a street in New Orleans and took control."

As long as the definition of abandoned means that it was not running, about to be in use, or intended for immediate use by local authorities or the owner of said vehicle.

Seconded.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by DeV

Could it be... a cop looting as well. Must be a black cop. (http://blighty.multiply.com/journal/item/537)
Note the white guy looking through his "finds". (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050831/480/wxs11908310010;_ylt=AsvjahkNOreBSQliZ7OLjcdiWscF;_ ylu=X3oDMTA3dmhrOGVvBHNlYwNzc20-)

More than likely based on demographics alone. 67% Black population. 55% of the police force is Black.

http://www.fungod.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=83

[DeV]

Yes, fucking idiots. A cop is still a cop. Again I say, fucking idiots.

[Sean of the Thread]

Sorry I almost didn't want to post it up.. but I felt the overwhelming need to get in a "I told you so" :(

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Sorry I almost didn't want to post it up.. but I felt the overwhelming need to get in a "I told you so" :( Umm, I seriously had a fleeting suspicion after you posted your follow up that you were correct. I hope you feel better now, because I feel the same way I did the day I posted that.

Cops are supposed to lead by example. And like I said, they are still cops no matter what setting a very shitty example.

[Sean of the Thread]

I don't feel better. it really sickens me. At first I was hoping that they were security guards..

[DeV]

Well the article clearly said cops so I figured that they would be well, ya know, cops. It is however very sickening.

[Jazuela]

Fun video...

They showed an interview with the Walmart CEO yesterday on TV. Turns out he told the authorities several days ago to go on and take whatever they needed from one of those Walmarts, to leave the doors open for free access.

I wonder if maybe that wasn't 'the' same Walmart that was opened with the blessings of the CEO? Afterall, it isn't looting if the owner gives you permission to take things.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Celephais
Try again Yswithe, the black woman with the two umbrellas is a "Looter" and is posted by AFP

I think Yswithe has a point. They are two separate news agencies in two separate countries goverened by two separate corporate policies.

If you could find an AP photo with white people getting food and the AP said they were finding food not looting then you would have something.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Fun video...

They showed an interview with the Walmart CEO yesterday on TV. Turns out he told the authorities several days ago to go on and take whatever they needed from one of those Walmarts, to leave the doors open for free access.

I wonder if maybe that wasn't 'the' same Walmart that was opened with the blessings of the CEO? Afterall, it isn't looting if the owner gives you permission to take things.

No this is early footage. The clop clearly proclaims that she is "stopping looters"

[Jazuela]

Yeah that's why I had trouble understanding the situation. The Walmart guy was interviewed yesterday, but he told reporters he had given the cops this permission several days ago (back when the looting was first reported). So it seemed like they wouldn't have had to claim they were stopping looters, ya know?

Maybe that cop wasn't informed? They didn't have much communication, maybe she didn't know that she actually had permission. Or - maybe it wasn't the same Walmart store that the CEO had granted his blessing to "loot" from.

[Sean of the Thread]

or not.

[xtc]

Regarding the photos by the AP in American and the AFP in France. One showing black people with goods captioned looters and the other white people with goods captioned found food.



"Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

Regarding the AFP/Getty "finding" photo by [photographer Chris] Graythen, Getty spokeswoman Bridget Russel said, "This is obviously a big tragedy down there, so we're being careful with how we credit these photos." Russel said that Graythen had discussed the image in question with his editor and that if Graythen didn't witness the two people in the image in the act of looting, then he couldn't say they were looting.
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water — we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow".

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by xtc]

[Sean of the Thread]

We already discussed this. One has A LOAF OF BREAD. The other has a fucking SANTA SACK! with like plasma TV cables hanging out.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Xyelin
We already discussed this. One has A LOAF OF BREAD. The other has a fucking SANTA SACK! with like plasma TV cables hanging out.

lol maybe I should email the story to Kanye....