Alcohol

[Asha]

I spent about an hour listening to the CCTV radio tonight, while I was on my break. I heard all the bars in my area calling for help from the police due to alcohol related violence.
There were guys smacking their girlfriends in the face, guys waving cars down and beating the bonnet (hood) with bottles, bouncers screaming for help and basicly total madness.
I was thinking how nuts it was until my bar was mentioned. I heard a group of men were heading our way and were purposely going through bars and harrassing the customers plus destroying the place.
I ( the only person working ) was advised to close all the doors and lock everyone in before the mad dudes got to us.
I did, with the help of my friends, manage to get the whole place locked down just in time and man, it was like world war three out there. The windows were being broken, the doors were being rammed and it was terrifying.

The point is, why is alcohol so freely available after all the violence which goes on is a direct result of it?
These new 24/7 opening times, which go into effect later this year do not seem such a good idea to me.
Why is it supposed to be a good idea?

[Edited on 8-28-2005 by Drayal]

...
Where do you live again?

[Warriorbird]

Because Prohibition worked about as well as the fucking War on Drugs does, that's why.

[Asha]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Because Prohibition worked about as well as the fucking War on Drugs does, that's why.

Great, we can have 24/7 alcohol related violence.

[Apotheosis]

The point is, where were your officers/riot control?

[Asha]

I've seriously never seen a riot cop where I live.
It's a small town called Wakefield.

Usually over here, the riot control is made up of all the bouncers and bar staff.
It's bullshit.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The point is, why is alcohol so freely available after all the violence which goes on is a direct result of it?>>

When alcohol truly is the cause of this shit, I'll listen. It may be a trigger because it releases the judgement not to do it, but you have to have intent to be violent. Nobody turns violent due to alcohol. People who are going to be fucking idiots when they're under the influence simply shouldn't drink. Don't take the privilege away from everyone.

[Bobmuhthol]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Because Prohibition worked about as well as the fucking War on Drugs does, that's why.

This needs repeating.

[Asha]

It's the people who get assaulted who had nothing to do with it, that matters to me.
Simply saying the potential idiots shouldn't drink doesn't help anyone. Making it available 24 hours a day makes it worse.

The point was, how can 24/7 availability be a good thing?

[Apotheosis]

I say make mace and baseball bats available to the bouncers.

[Shonison]

<<When alcohol truly is the cause of this shit, I'll listen. It may be a trigger because it releases the judgement not to do it, but you have to have intent to be violent. Nobody turns violent due to alcohol. People who are going to be fucking idiots when they're under the influence simply shouldn't drink. Don't take the privilege away from everyone.>>

I agree completely with this statement. You don't do anything when drunk that you wouldn't -want- to do when sober.

[Asha]

Yswithe, the bouncers here don't need it. They could sort it all out if they only had the permission to do so.
I can't see how giving anyone weapons will stop the violence.

Although I do think bar staff should be allowed sidearms.

[Asha]

Originally posted by Shonison
<<When alcohol truly is the cause of this shit, I'll listen. It may be a trigger because it releases the judgement not to do it, but you have to have intent to be violent. Nobody turns violent due to alcohol. People who are going to be fucking idiots when they're under the influence simply shouldn't drink. Don't take the privilege away from everyone.>>

I agree completely with this statement. You don't do anything when drunk that you wouldn't -want- to do when sober.

Bullshit.
I've woken up with so many girls I wouldn't have fucked when I could actually see.

[SpunGirl]

Uh, alcohol is available 24/7 where I live and pretty much within ten feet of wherever you might happen to be standing... and usually for "free" if you just slide the quarter you found on the ground into a slot machine.

No riots.

-K

[Asha]

Heh, do the authorities provide the security there Spun, or is it something more sinister, which we could do with over here?

FYI my basis for this is entirely from excellent movies. Tv and books.
:lol:

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Drayal
I've woken up with so many girls I wouldn't have fucked when I could actually see.

Maybe a more encompassing way to state this would be, "Alcohol makes it easier to give in to things you would not normally do otherwise. It does NOT force you to do things against your will. "

Ever!

-K

[Asha]

Agreed.
What Shonison stated was different to that.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Drayal
Heh, do the authorities provide the security there Spun, or is it something more sinister, which we could do with over here?

FYI my basis for this is entirely from excellent movies. Tv and books.
:lol:

LOL. Well, I'll give you an example. Today at work, there was a man in the men's restroom who was hugely fucked up. He was throwing beer bottles in the restroom, threatening people, generally being an asshole. He was asked to leave by security. He refused, so he was placed into handcuffs and taken to the security holding room, where he was made to sit on a bench while handcuffed to a pole. The police were called, he was formally trespassed from the property, and his ass was cited for DD.

All of the actions taken by security were totally legal. We can ask someone to leave at any time, for any reason. If they resist, we can place them in "temporary custody," which we are fully equipped to do.

The police here are also heavily prepared for crazy situations, like the madness that happens on New Year's Eve on the strip. Out of control people are dealt with swiftly and harshly. Add to that the pervasive surveillance (most people don't want to be caught on camera being retarded and/or breaking the law) and you get a semi-safe environment (you can't be an idiot, but that's a whole other post it itself).

I think that a lot of cities are looking towards city-wide surveillance to solve some of these problems and as a deterrent to this kind of crime. I personally have no problem with it, no matter what the ACLU says :grin:

-K

[Asha]

It's so funny, we're allowed to serve drink to people who'll (depending on wether they're potential assaulters) fight everyone in the room, but we're not equiped to deal with it.

Especially not on the mass scale it will be when the country eventually brings in this rule.
Britain is renowned for its violent louts.
And we're seriously out numbered against them, over here, as it is.

Spun, call some of your 'friends' in. We fucking need them.

[Anebriated]

I <3 alcohol

[Asha]

Me too!

[Czeska]

Contact highs aside...

I find it odd that being shitfaced is considered (to a degree) acceptable, when so many people turn into mean drunks. But ever see someone just stoned on pot, and beating the fuck out of a car? Not too freaking often. They're usually vegged in a chair with a bag of doritos, or laughing like a 5 year old girl.

Anyway.

There's no reason for 24/7 bars. Hell, there's barely a reason for 24/7 convenience stores.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Drayal
Spun, call some of your 'friends' in. We fucking need them.

LOL, they'll take some of those drunken Brit louts OUT TO THE DESERT. WHERE THINGS HAPPEN.

-K

[Asha]

:rofl:
Alright!!!

[Shonison]

<<Bullshit.
I've woken up with so many girls I wouldn't have fucked when I could actually see.>>

Eh..you probably went out looking for action in general though. I will admit that "beer goggles" do exist, certainly.

[Bobmuhthol]

Impaired judgement does not cause violence, though. You might do shit you wouldn't have done sober, but it doesn't make you violent.. you have to be a violent person for that. You wouldn't do a fat chick because she's a fat chick -- you wouldn't perform a violent act because you're not a violent person.

[OreoElf]

Only if you're strictly speaking of alcohol Bob. I don't know what to say about this... things like this make me wonder why pot is illegal and alcohol is legal in the USA. I'm with Bill Mahr... I'm Swiss.

[KraizMaule]

Go ahead and be Swiss, but I'd take the Abrams tanks and F-15's over pot any day of the week.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by OreoElf
Only if you're strictly speaking of alcohol Bob. I don't know what to say about this... things like this make me wonder why pot is illegal and alcohol is legal in the USA. I'm with Bill Mahr... I'm Swiss.

There is actually a long history behind why Pot is illegal, and it has very little to do with "impared judgement" or reefer madness and more to do, IMO, with alcohol lobby.

It's a shame too because it can actually be used to treat many conditions better than marinol.

-M

[Janarth]

My mom says I'm a better person when I'm drunk, how fucked up is that? I don't think she's kidding either...(responding to the person who said all drunks are mean drunks).

Anyways, my main point is, isn't serving to the point of intoxication illegal? I know, its paradoxical, but, when I worked in the bar they made me take these courses on how to cut people off and deal with drunks, and they said I was legally liable for the drunks. I was supposed to cut them off when they hit the legal limit, and that I could even be sued! The example they gave was a drunk comes in from another bar he got kicked out of, asks me for a drink, I give it to him, he then goes over the top, decides to drive, kills someone, I could get sued. There any truth to that?

[xtc]

If it hasn't been said already:

Homer Simpson: "Alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems".

[Alfster]

Originally posted by Janarth
My mom says I'm a better person when I'm drunk, how fucked up is that? I don't think she's kidding either...(responding to the person who said all drunks are mean drunks).

Anyways, my main point is, isn't serving to the point of intoxication illegal? I know, its paradoxical, but, when I worked in the bar they made me take these courses on how to cut people off and deal with drunks, and they said I was legally liable for the drunks. I was supposed to cut them off when they hit the legal limit, and that I could even be sued! The example they gave was a drunk comes in from another bar he got kicked out of, asks me for a drink, I give it to him, he then goes over the top, decides to drive, kills someone, I could get sued. There any truth to that?

Yup, there is truth to that...at least here in Wisconsin I've heard of that happening.

[Warriorbird]

That is true in North Carolina, but not true in Virginia. Ironically, however, you're far more liable in Virginia if you sell to someone underage than in most states, however.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by Janarth

Anyways, my main point is, isn't serving to the point of intoxication illegal? I know, its paradoxical, but, when I worked in the bar they made me take these courses on how to cut people off and deal with drunks, and they said I was legally liable for the drunks. I was supposed to cut them off when they hit the legal limit, and that I could even be sued! The example they gave was a drunk comes in from another bar he got kicked out of, asks me for a drink, I give it to him, he then goes over the top, decides to drive, kills someone, I could get sued. There any truth to that?

Yes, we're living in the age of the absurd. You can win millions if you're too stupid to realize that coffee is HOT. You can win millions if you get cancer from tobacco products that you freely bought and used. And, yes, you can get rich if you imbibe too much alcohol and wrap your car around a handy bridge abutment.

You can also sue if your local school doesn't assume your parental responsibilities, but at the same time you can sue if you disagree with the way they discipline your child.

The prevalence of frivolous lawsuits in this country have led to us becoming a nation that rewards lack of judgement by bestowing ridiculous amounts of cash upon those incapable of using simple common sense.

So it becomes the responsibility of the bartender to decide the level of impairment of his customers, rather than the responsibility of the individual drinker to cut himself off or hand over his keys and call a cab.

[Latrinsorm]

Frivolous lawsuits have been around since colonial times.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

LOL, they'll take some of those drunken Brit louts OUT TO THE DESERT. WHERE THINGS HAPPEN.

-K

God that never gets old!

That made me actually laugh out loud.

Niceness.

Well, I'm no expert in this, but recently being to London I was shocked at the 11 PM closing times. I spoke to a few bartenders and on what they thought and it came to this. When the last call bell rings or is about to ring you have people slugging down as many pints as possible. It's impossible to get to the bar due to how crowded it gets. Now, all the bars let out at the same time and this heavy wave of drinking comes in.

It's not the alocohol only, it's the situation. 24 hour drinking is not an issue. Set closing times are.

- Arkans

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Drayal
What happened to EX-alcoholic, Xyelin. :argue:

(moved as to not fuk up the london thread)
You know the saying.. once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.
I am however no longer or depending how you look at it "currently am not" a raging out of control alcoholic as before. Instead of slugging a pint of liquor at 8am I now enjoy a pint of beer with a cheeseburger watching football. So much changed after my little awakening that I never updated or followed up the threads here.

Anyways I am more coherent now then I ever was in the past 10 years. One time I talked to my marine biology professor about my drinking (she was shocked because I was of 3 to ace her course that semester :P) and she told me that it was something you will grow out of. I guess she was right because that is exactly how I feel.