Gaza Withdrawal

[Terminator X]

These boards are usually laden with politically geared topics, I was surprised not to see this pop up.

Anyway, if y'all want to discuss...

[Gan]

In the interest of peaces its a good thing. Great gains can be made with a little sacrifice, now the ball is in the Palestinian's court, so to speak.

Those that are refusing to leave that violent area is like refusing to evacuate a burning building.

[Ravenstorm]

I agree. It's a good thing. It's a sign of good will on the Israeli's part and damn, some good will is sure needed in that region. It's a start. Hopefully it'll lead to something good.

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Those that are refusing to leave that violent area is like refusing to evacuate a burning building. Agreed. You would think they would feel safer for their children who won't have to serve as soldiers in the region any longer (hopefully), and that this would be a good thing for their soldiers currently serving there now. They knew this would be happening and should have prepared accordingly. 8000 Jews amongst over a million Palestanians...

It is a start.

[AnticorRifling]

I thought Gaza was a WoW server (PvP of course)

[Skeeter]

If I go through Gaza withdrawl will I get the DT's?

[Back]

More religious bullshit that leaves people dead or maimed. Im sick of it.

[4a6c1]

I was thinking about how interesting it was that the Gaza incident happened on that week of the entire year.

Historically in judaism that is the wost week of the whole year. Sort of a bad luck week or something. How Friday the 13th is to our new society. It comes from the belief that the temple was destroyed thousands of years ago, on two seperate occasions, but both times on the same week of the year. There is some superstitions surrounding it.

Jews and Kabbalists (excluding some hassidic types) do not start new projects on this week. They dont make changes. Especially not big changes. They dont read Tanach except for Deuteronomy. And they arent permitted to meditate on the names of God.

Anyhoo. This is a big change. And I'm hearing all sorts of theories for the future. Fun stuff.

[Gridlock]

I think poor bastards. But hell Fort hood is trying to take my land right now so i dont feel that bad for em.

[Skirmisher]

Those that were born and raised there have my deepest sympathies.

Those that moved there had to always be aware that this day could come.

I think this is a wonderful and exciting if difficult step toward a potentially lasting peace

[Back]

Read an article today that claims Isreal still maintains all security of the area and its airspace and retained the right to attack at any time for any reason. Its a move that only gets settlers out but still maintains its open-air prison status while allowing Israel to keep larger portions of the west bank.

Its an op-ed piece but makes a lot of sense.

Counter Punch (http://www.counterpunch.com/baroud08182005.html) article.

[HarmNone]

Major General Harel, Israel's commander for the region, has said the Gaza Strip settlements could be empty by as early as Tuesday..."weeks ahead of schedule". Then, the evacuation of two settlements on the West Bank is to begin (on Tuesday).

Apparently, once the evacuations are complete, all homes will be demolished and the rubble left as building materials for the Palistinians.

It's an ugly start to a precarious peace. I find myself hopeful, yet sad, for both sides. The hate has gone on for far too long.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
I was thinking about how interesting it was that the Gaza incident happened on that week of the entire year.

Historically in judaism that is the wost week of the whole year. Sort of a bad luck week or something. How Friday the 13th is to our new society. It comes from the belief that the temple was destroyed thousands of years ago, on two seperate occasions, but both times on the same week of the year. There is some superstitions surrounding it.

You're thinking of Tisha B'Av, which is one day, but the mourning begins three weeks prior on 17 B'Tammuz.

The reasoning for this goes back to Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel upon coming to the promised land, but sending scouts in before entering and then mourning their fate when hearing the reports of "children of giants" and fortified cities. The entire generation received the punishment of wandering the wasted lands for 40 years and only their offspring would know the promised land.

Aside from the destruction of the 1st and second temples, a pagan temple was built upon the site of the 1st and 2nd Temples and Jerusalem became a pagan city. The expulsion of Jews from Spain, WWI, the capture of Betar, the burning of the original Torah, and the breaking of the original commandments all took place (believed to have) between Tisha B'Av and 17 B'Tammuz.

These are well known dates thus the evacuation did not begin until the 16th of August, two days after Tisha B'Av came to an end on sunset of the 14th.


Jews and Kabbalists (excluding some hassidic types) do not start new projects on this week. They dont make changes. Especially not big changes. They dont read Tanach except for Deuteronomy. And they arent permitted to meditate on the names of God.

The only distinction between Jews and Kabbalists would be those that study Hermatic versions of the Kabbal ... thus not Jews. Aside from that, Kabbalists are a secular group of Jews ... thus synonymous. The restrictions during Tisha B'Av or 17 B'Tammuz are similar to observing Shiva or Yom Kippor ... and Lamentations are read, not Deuteronomy.

[/quote]Anyhoo. This is a big change. And I'm hearing all sorts of theories for the future. Fun stuff. [/quote]

It is historic, and I hope for the better of all.

I have believed the Palestinian State has been a long time in coming, it has just been an impossibility due to the mind set of either side.

So long as the power vacuum left by Arafat's death isn't filled by a like minded piece of shit and Sharom's days as a leader are numbered, that day will come.

It is a given that Israel will take precautions to ensure it's safety, but we can only hope that they facilitate these precautions with utmost care. There are just far too many decades of strife for this to be an instant fix where there are no casualties or conflicts. We can only hope that this is the beginning of the end of future tension.

[4a6c1]

:yeahthat:

:) :) :)

Thanks for clarifying. I really should listen in Torah class.

Still close enough to the date to make me go 'hmmm'.



The only distinction between Jews and Kabbalists would be those that study Hermatic versions of the Kabbal ... thus not Jews. Aside from that, Kabbalists are a secular group of Jews ... thus synonymous.


edited to add: my contacts are Kabbalists, so I've really only heard the Kabblistic perspective. Which is one of spiritual theory based on those meditations and practices.

Although I agree Jew and Kabbalist is redundant in some ways, there are many jews who will have nothing to do with the practice and so I tend to seperate the terms in conversation. This is supported by own theories on the roots of Kabbalah.


[Edited on 8-20-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[AnticorRifling]

Why does your sig say Fuck Me?

[4a6c1]

rofl

[Tsa`ah]

Well to clarify, I believe the date for evacuation was set with Tisha B'Av in mind, as it would be reason to lament the past and present in unisonhad the evacuation happened on the day or within 3 weeks prior to.

As for the Kabbalist view point of view in regards to Tisha B'Av, it's no different than any other Jewish perspective. The only distiction between a Kabbalist and any other random Jew is that one believes God is perfect while the Kabbalist believes God is imperfect and holds creation in general as proof.

Going back to the evacuation ... to smells of an opportunity for planned retaliation. While Hamas has been quiet during the exodus from the settlements, they will not remain quiet should the planned elections not go their way. I believe Sharon knows this, and I believe he also knows how justified a conflict would look should Hamas or any other Palistinian faction take advantage of Israel's shrinking borders.

Should attacks into Israel continue, and from the former settlements, fewer outcries of occupation will be made if Sharon orders the land, plus more, to be taken back.

While those outside of Israel view Sharom's stay in power as a sign that the people of Israel want him in power, those that actually live in Israel know that "Am Rotsa Sharon" isn't all that true. Many voters gambled on the Likud party putting up a different leader. And that wasn't an improbability considering the amount of dissent within the part at the time.

This round of elections will be even harder for the Likud and I believe this is a gamble for them. If there's no conflict, no war, they gain some votes from districts removed from the settlements, but lose a vast number of votes from those that were recently evacuated. In essence, if everything remains peaceful, the Lukid are looking at losing many many seats even though their visible actions were in the name of peace. Now, if a conflict breaks out from now until the date of the next election, the Lukid are cemented in power for another term simply because they made the gesture and were spit on for it. And, of course, their forsight saved thousands of Israeli lives ... had they not been evacuated, they would have been killed in Palistinian hostilities.

[Edited on 8-21-2005 by Tsa`ah]