Morvule CS

[Xandalf]

Among Morvule's many toys, piss him off enough and....


Morvule gestures at you.
CS: +1222 - TD: +302 + CvA: +4 + d100: +78 - -5 == +1007
Warding failed!
A pall of silence settles over you.


heh, I love it.

[StrayRogue]

It's silly, IMHO. We're meant to be the heroic characters of legend, but compared to these NPCs, we may as well be the peonic little denziens, or fodder, of each town. You know the kind, the ones who scream bloody murder when you cast ewave or something.

[FinisWolf]

I agree with Stay. That is all.

Finis

[hectomaner]

i concur

[Andreal]

What? You couldn't kill Morvule with ease? Must be your training plans.

[SpunGirl]

Morvule is meant to be an emissary of Mularos, directly from the arkati himself, so it stands to reason he would be more powerful than the average adventurer.

But it would be nice if they toned it down an eensy bit. Half the CS shown there would suffice. Also, GSS :thumbsdown: !!! Wrap that shit up already, this is getting to be Thurfel-length.

-K

[hectomaner]

i think morvule has penis envy

[Volstock]

ya know the legend is better when we defeat what was suppose to be undefeatable. That's why the NPC have to get harder

[Fallen]

He is the Avatar of a god. He should pack a punch. What bothers me? Some merchants can pull off the same numbers.

[Asha]

I completely agree with Fallens' last statement.

[Dwarven Empath]

You gesture at a spiky mottled black abyran'ra.
You concentrate intently on a spiky mottled black abyran'ra, and a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward it!
CS: +476 - TD: +511 + CvA: +25 + d100: +59 == +49
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
The fox sniffs into the air.
>
A spiky mottled black abyran'ra lashes its tail at you in a whip-like fashion!
AS: +505 vs DS: +534 with AvD: +46 + d100 roll: +88 = +105
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Blow glances off your shoulder.

One of Morvule's lil friends...

[Drew]

Originally posted by Fallen
He is the Avatar of a god. He should pack a punch. What bothers me? Some merchants can pull off the same numbers.


Don't even get me started on Sproink.

[Jonty]

WTF? I thought this shit was supposed to be over last spring.

[Praefection]

The powers that be said it'd be wrapped up 'at the first part of the new year'. March? I think not.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Celember
You gesture at a spiky mottled black abyran'ra.
You concentrate intently on a spiky mottled black abyran'ra, and a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward it!
CS: +476 - TD: +511 + CvA: +25 + d100: +59 == +49
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
The fox sniffs into the air.
>
A spiky mottled black abyran'ra lashes its tail at you in a whip-like fashion!
AS: +505 vs DS: +534 with AvD: +46 + d100 roll: +88 = +105
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Blow glances off your shoulder.

One of Morvule's lil friends...

Warding them with CS spells never seems to work.

Rapidfire bolting can beat them down though.

...I've never actually had time to check to see if they have spells up. Might be able to dispel them into range.

Morvule is an idiotic idea for a character. I'm not sure what GM thought it would be fun to make a lvl 300 character that makes you explode if you cast spells at him, but it's just ridiculous.

I find it very difficult to suspend disbelief when you know it's just a GM tipping the scales impossibly in their own favor. If you complain about it, the GM always uses the stock excuse --"he has to be invulnerable or it will ruin the plot I have planned...oh and part of his roleplay is running around Elanthia taking a shit in town squares and killing lvl 20's".

No one wants to fight your stupid fucking invulnerable NPC for a year, on the offchance that we might be able to kill him with the help of a legion of drakes.

:thumbsdown:

Enough already with the Arkati NPC's.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Also, GSS !!! Wrap that shit up already, this is getting to be Thurfel-length.

Holy fuck that stupid ass thing is STILL going on?

Is it just really REALLY long, or is it like most "sagas" where something only happens once every other month at 3:23am on a Tuesday?

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Fallen
He is the Avatar of a god. He should pack a punch. What bothers me? Some merchants can pull off the same numbers.

... and they do often ... to often, which is my real problem with it.

Finis

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Morvule is meant to be an emissary of Mularos...

Luukos. Not Mularos. More snakes, less masochist. :P

[Warriorbird]

"like most "sagas" where something only happens once every other month at 3:23am on a Tuesday?"

Yes.

Great song quote btw, Jihna.

[SpunGirl]

If Morvule is Luukos', and Draezir was Sheru's... who was Mularos' d00d again? I can't even remember, this shit has been going on for THAT long.

-K

[Edited on 8-17-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Latrinsorm]

Wasn't that guy Voraviel or something?

[SpunGirl]

Voraviel is one of the GMs in charge of the GSS. But he was supposed to go over to HJ.

-K

[Avaia]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
If Morvule is Luukos', and Draezir was Sheru's... who was Mularos' d00d again?

Eryael.

[Jolena]

Yey, Eryael is a nasty mean one too. That part of the quest was by far the most grotesque for me as a player and Jolena as a character. :scared2:

[SpunGirl]

GSS was fun at first. It's just gotten way too retarded.

-K

[Some Rogue]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
GSS was fun at first. It's just gotten way too retarded.

-K

You just summed up all of Gemstone in that statement.

[Asha]

GS is still fun to play.
Just the quests/sagas are terribly thought out and never seem to end for years.
Get with the right crowd and this game can feel like it's as much fun as it ever was.
Just sometimes it's like the magic has gone until you're included in something excellent.

[Edited on 8-17-2005 by Drayal]

[Fallen]

The thing about the GSS as it stands now, is that the lines are firmly established. You can participate as an outsider, and have fun, but you likely will not be joining either the DA or the Resistance.

Also, if your character is not actively religious, it is hard to justify interacting within the plotline beyond the instance where the war is brought to you.

[HouseofElves]

Basically what Fallen said. It's tough, it's long, but it's still a game. If you can't enjoy the Saga for what it's worth, don't be a part of it. There are plenty of other cool, short quests someone can get involved in.

And by the way, I agree that avatar of an Arkati should be beyond legendary. You aren't supposed to be able to do anything against the full power of Luukos. Or Lorminstra. Or (insert Arkati here) for that matter. It can suck to be on the otherside but if it bothers you that bad stay away from that situation.

On the other hand, merchants who have an incredible CS/AS/DS do bother the hell out of me.


P.S. Eryael is teh sex0r.

[Fission]

What they really need to stop doing with the GSS and other quests as well is falling back so heavily on deus ex machina.

Time after time some NPC comes in and shows off their godly powers, and/or invasions ensue, towns burn, PCs get slaughtered in droves, etc. Whatever the event of the day is wears on until an opposing NPC comes in, does something special and magical, and yay, everything's better.

What's the point in participating, when in the end, you make little or no difference at all?

[Warriorbird]

It's debateable whether the "high priests" were actually supposed to be avatars.

I see the reasoning for it, however, because tactically all of them would get the floor wiped with them otherwise.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
You aren't supposed to be able to do anything against the full power of Luukos. Or Lorminstra. Or (insert Arkati here) for that matter.That's not what the Elves say. Nor do I see any reason logically why a band of adventurers would be unable to defeat an Arkati. If there was an official post somewhere stating otherwise, I missed it.

[HouseofElves]

Eh, when you just focus on the bigger stuff you miss a lot of depth and interaction that not only goes on between other characters but the NPC creations as well.

And since the beginning Voraviel has stated it's a character driven storyline where the outcome is based on PC movement.

There is a small group involved in the GSS who has a goal not only to destroy a certain Arkati, but to ascend to be one.

But really to each their own. I think the reiver quest was pretty retarded and I adore the GSS. Just depends on what suits your fancy and what you are seeking. Not to say I don't have issues with some of the things in this quest or the length, I personally do not know Gemstone without the GSS but...it has a lot more pros than cons for me.

:rah:

[The Ponzzz]

The problem with Quests in GS, is that they are mostly player driven. And you have several player types... I tend to think the person who has a missing hand, leg, bleeding all over and goes, "Can i get some healing?!?" Giggle/chortle, eat tart while you wait for the empath, ruin the game.

But anyways, the problem with GSS is it is NOT player driven. The GM(s) involved have an ending to it that they see fit. So the damn thing goes on and on until it takes that plan of action...

I mean GSS isn't the only quest/saga that is still going. WoN still hasn't finished all of it's open ended quests...

[Asha]

To me, GS consists of a few friends, the dais and a hunting area.

That's all.
If the sagas were GM involed every single night, with new and exciting things happening through them, I'd care about them and maybe get involved.
But they are just left to fizzle out. Which sucks.

[DeV]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
You aren't supposed to be able to do anything against the full power of Luukos. Or Lorminstra. Or (insert Arkati here) for that matter.

Originally posted by HouseofElves
There is a small group involved in the GSS who has a goal not only to destroy a certain Arkati, but to ascend to be one.
So basically their goal is impossible and it could even be said that it's a neverending one, as is the quest/storyline/saga/yada yada.

[Fallen]

It is true that the plot cannot progress without GMs allowance. It is not true that no important roleplay happens in the GSS without any GM assistance.

Think of the GSS as a roleplay device, and not a quest. It is something to discuss, to fight over, to add to, or let augment your roleplay/character. When something GM related actually DOES happen, its all the better. However, if you are unable to roleplay within the GSS storyline without GM assistance, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Edited on 8-19-2005 by Fallen]

[The Ponzzz]

Very true Fallen, but GSS is one of the very few quests that require only the GM(s) involved to move the story forward, or it only becomes, something to talk about, and perhaps make a stand about.

Personally I tried to follow this a few years ago, but I just couldn't stay in it(quitting for a year also put a damper on things aswell)...

[Sex Shoggoth]

Oo! A thread about the neverending quest! Wanna know why it's so goddamn long?! Then keep reading...

When I first started it up with GM Lothwyn, we were fairly new to GMhood. I'd already gotten a taste for events by running the first half of the vishmiir saga (the parts with all the stunted '...raaah...I'm...spooky...' speech and bloody messes if you said the wrong word, not the the world-stopping Illistim mages part) so I was asked to run another. I was basically given free reign to do anything I wanted. Since there had been very, very little active Arkati sagas in the past few years when I was a player (seriously, it seemed like everyone was actively avoiding Arkati quests), we decided to bring the cliched little battle between good and evil back.

Back then, we had a lot of time. A whole lot. More time than people should spend working on a quest, anyway. ;) It was also, more or less, the main thing we got to work on. So things were intense, and they moved quickly, and they got very big. People liked what we were doing for the most part, and the quest was open-ended. It stayed this way until shortly after the EN portion of the quest.

That was when it was decided that the quest would be more of a side-project for us than our main work. We weren't new anymore, and we were both familiar with alot of GM stuff that made us useful for more than just running one quest, so we were utilized for other projects and whatnot. Mainly WoN, at the time. I got to do a whole crapload of backbone support for Hochstib in terms of creatures, invasions, Mandis Crystals, other coding, event-running, etc, etc under the direction of GM Mikos and various ancillary coding backup for the entire team with all their various subplots.

Obviously, I underestimated the workload for WoN, otherwise I wouldn't have said GSS wouldn't be affected by it. It was, maybe not immediately, but afterwards. After WoN, GSS was still on side project status, so it would wane in the face of larger projects that had deadlines. Then it would start up again, then it would wane, then it would start up again. We still plugged away at it, of course, but factor in moving across the country, college, work and all the other things life inevitably throws at you along with the scope of projects we now had to do, and you find yourself reeeeal short on time eventually. So those months where you were working on something big for eventual release started to stack up, and here we are today!

This isn't placing blame on anyone, tho -- obviously, my time is my own and I was hired to meet certain expectations. It's mainly been one long road of attrition with the end result being more gaps in between the spurts of action.

As for some of the things discussed in this thread, I can say that the ending of the quest was player-driven up to a point. That point was when the third piece was found, and the ending had been completely open-ended until then. Players shaped how the end was going to turn out, and without some situations that players solely did on their own, certain NPCs would not be the way they are, hell, certain NPCs wouldn't even exist without things players have done. Whole subplots would've never happened. I really think that's the best way to go with quests, allowing players alot of malleability in terms of where the storyline goes up to a point, as you do need to plan things development-wise. If it was solely up to the players all the time, you'd pretty much end up with an automated quest, or a much smaller quest, of which GSS is neither.

So, that's why it's been as long as it has been. I do try to make it as entertaining as possible when it does start up and try to maximize the amount of interactability and fun. I was a graduate of the Thurfel quest myself with my PC, so I'm painfully aware of how much it sucks to have cliffhangers and just plain zero activity, so when the activity does restart, I try to make up for it with fun things for people to do -- there've been countless 'mini-missions' throughout this quest in hopes of making things more entertaining and give people a unique experience instead of just invade/break/invade. That's not to say there won't be invasions. :D

Regardless, though, once this ends, I severely doubt you'll see any other quest this long. What you will see is the same kind of attention to detail and interaction since we've got alot of cool new GMs and there's been plans to bring smaller-scope/local quests into cities.

As for overpoweredness -- some things are just more powerful than even a really strong adventurer. The High Priests are one of them. If you don't enjoy that, don't muss with 'em. Seriously. When they're walking around in invasions, they're mainly there for an 'oh shit!' moment, like a roaming void in the Rift, a sort of chaotic random thing that could possibly kill you. Otherwise, they're not really going to hunt any odd person down. If you're actively screwing with them, though, then maybe you might get something nasty thrown your way. We've certainly thrown out alot of smackable NPCs and gave players a chance at the High Priests - again, malleability.

At this point, though, it's moot if you hate it as there's not going to be much time left to convince you otherwise. It's in its final stages (why else would I be invading with frickin' demons with frickin' lasers on their heads). Rejoice, and whatnot, or just scoff and declare that it shall go on forever!

Because it will! Bwahaha.

Kidding.

Maybe.

~ V

[HouseofElves]

Thx V, you made this thread smell like sex and hot dogs. <3

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Sex Shoggoth
Regardless, though, once this ends, I severely doubt you'll see any other quest this long. What you will see is the same kind of attention to detail and interaction since we've got alot of cool new GMs and there's been plans to bring smaller-scope/local quests into cities.



This is awesome.

-K

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
That's not what the Elves say. Nor do I see any reason logically why a band of adventurers would be unable to defeat an Arkati. If there was an official post somewhere stating otherwise, I missed it.

I'm pretty sure the arkati have been around longer than than even the oldest members of the races with the most longevity. They were born from the drakes, and were hanging around Elanthia when the lesser races were just kind of starting to squirm. So it goes to follow that someone or something that's been around THAT LONG should be extremely powerful. If they take a high priest like Morvule and give him a wittle hint of that power, it makes sense that he'd be able to wreak mass havoc without a problem.

The arkati aren't immortal (that I've read), they're just really sooper-dooper old.

-K

[Shonison]

Couple of things. First, the GSS was primarily player driven until just recently. Either side could win each campaign by gaining the sword piece. The blade, however, was secured by Ulstram...cheap, in my opinion, even though it benefited the side my character is on. Both the Alliance and the "Resistance" (I hate that name) were in the room together, and they should have let us have one massive PvP battle to figure out who got it. Instead, the GMs stepped in to ensure that evil could not win the whole event.

Second, Morvule is really the only high priest in the set that has such insane powers, and he did not have them before his "demonic" transformation. Zerroth was invincible, for all intents and purposes (defenses in the 1400's in GS3), but he had no counter attacks the way Morvule does. Draezir, on many occasions, was quite weak. His DS was around 800, and his TD around 650 in GS3. That's high, but he was hittable, and killed more than once. Eryael is the weirdest one. The GM's made him easily hittable, but not crittable. We inflicted over 10,000 points of damage on the guy, and it only made him happy because of the pain. It's fitting for the character, I suppose. All of the minor Alliance NPC's have been completely killable.

And finally...the Arkati are not immortal. I don't think they can die of old age, but they can be killed by eachother or by superior beings (Drakes, etc). None of the lesser "playable" races qualify.

[SpunGirl]

LOL. You know, Shonison, that if the DA had snagged the blade, there would have been a mass hissy-fit. Remember the "race" through the maze for the quillions? I thought it was pretty fair, but it inspired like four weeks worth of arguments on the main boards over whether or not it was skewed from the beginning in the DA's favor.

-K

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
So it goes to follow that someone or something that's been around THAT LONG should be extremely powerful.While being born from a drake would certainly suggest lots of power, I don't buy that the most age = the most power (Yoda got whipped by Palpatine, who in turn was whipped by Windu, who in turn was whipped by Vader, who in turn was whipped by Luke), especially when we can't really be sure when or how the Arkati were created (taking creation stories literally, and all). Not only that, some of the Arkati weren't even born of a drake (e.g. Lorminstra, Cholen, Jastev).

I still don't see any reason for an Arkati to be necessarily invulnerable to player characters, especially when they're apparently so averse to direct confrontation.

[SpunGirl]

Um, because player characters are part of the lesser races, not born from drakes, or in the cases you cited, some magical mystical event (like the parrots and the birth of Lumnis). Lesser races imply just that - lesser.

Also, good point with the Star Wars thing, but GS is not Star Wars. You're talking about people using a surrounding power they could mold and adapt to their purposes. The Arkati's power belongs to them, and they have it because... here's that pesky bit again... they are NOT part of the lesser races. PCs are.

-K

[StrayRogue]

They make them powerful so no one can fuck up their quest by killing them. It's also probably demonstrating the "I have absolute power, lets abuse" it nature as well. Saying they're X, Y and Z is meaningless. Whatever reason they come up with doesn't replace the fact that they just don't want them to be offed by some super character, which, in my opinion, completely negates any and all action on the part of us, the "hero's" of GS.

Player driven? When we cannot control the very nature of those involved, IE these unstoppable NPCs, I would say it's not player driven.

[SpunGirl]

But up until Ulstram snagged the blade, the unstoppable NPCs didn't even make a difference as to who got the first three pieces. They might have had a hand in other events, but I'd say the different sides going for the pieces of the sword are central events to the quest.

-K

[HouseofElves]

Basically, you don't have to be able to kill these avatars to make a difference in the quest. Small, mid-low level characters from my understanding, could at one point had made or broken certain events.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
But up until Ulstram snagged the blade, the unstoppable NPCs didn't even make a difference as to who got the first three pieces. They might have had a hand in other events, but I'd say the different sides going for the pieces of the sword are central events to the quest.

-K

Thats why it's retarded.

[Shonison]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
LOL. You know, Shonison, that if the DA had snagged the blade, there would have been a mass hissy-fit. Remember the "race" through the maze for the quillions? I thought it was pretty fair, but it inspired like four weeks worth of arguments on the main boards over whether or not it was skewed from the beginning in the DA's favor.

-K

Heh, probably true. The first two pieces were even contests, in my opinion. I wasn't present for the end of the Illistim campaign, so I really can't speak to that. In this case, though, it at least would have been a clear-cut battle. Last one alive claims the piece. I had 1140/1106 macroed for Wulfhen, and Perigourd was all set to wave his implosion rod at Mekthros. Other resistance members had other targets. The Alliance, in return, had every kill spell available prepped and ready. With about 60 people in all, it would have been a bloodbath to remember for years. Sadly, the sanctuary and Ulstram ruined that.

[StrayRogue]

I don't see what would have stopped anyone mass imploding killing everyone. Glory to the skillful use of GS pvp.

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Shonison
With about 60 people in all, it would have been a bloodbath to remember for years. Sadly, the sanctuary and Ulstram ruined that.

I'm not sure why you think that the reality of a battle between PCs would have been "epic."

prep 720 r cast r

<a couple of pages of screen roll going by so fast you can't even begin to read it>

... Epic Battle over.

Not a whole lot of fun there.

[Shonison]

From my experience of force on force (rather extensive), open implosion simply doesn't work too well without debris on the ground (which I don't think they had ready). Major e wave is far more effective, but both sides had plenty of people that could survive their enemy's best shot with either.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Star WarsI thought the Star Wars thing was a good parallel because mana is kind of like the Force, and even the Arkati rely on mana.

Can we at least agree that a suitably trained group of PCs could off, I don't know, Voaris?

[HarmNone]

Thanks for the information, "V". Gives the players something to think about, and lets them realize that many ongoing quests are affected, for better or worse, by their actions and reactions.

It's good to see Simu staff contributing here again. :)

[Sex Shoggoth]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
They make them powerful so no one can fuck up their quest by killing them. It's also probably demonstrating the "I have absolute power, lets abuse" it nature as well. Saying they're X, Y and Z is meaningless. Whatever reason they come up with doesn't replace the fact that they just don't want them to be offed by some super character, which, in my opinion, completely negates any and all action on the part of us, the "hero's" of GS.

Player driven? When we cannot control the very nature of those involved, IE these unstoppable NPCs, I would say it's not player driven.

Being a hero of GS doesn't really matter how high your level is or how strong your attacks are. Yeah, sure, you can go smack the biggest critter out there and go wrangle with demons, and rightly you should. Real 'heros' are defined and built by facing overwhelming odds.

Quite frankly, PvP combat at the higher levels is boring anyway and is mainly about getting the first shot in. And if you're going to go with the whole 'they should be like players' logic, NPCs would never die permanently anyway. So the point of offing them to stop them is moot. The ones I make are, as mentioned above, for an element of random chaos, and the occasional organized chaos. They're the adversary that a hero cuts their teeth on through many and varied encounters.

Quests are about pushing and pulling on both the sides of the player and the GM. If every quest was player-driven in the sense that you could put it to a grinding halt by offing some central NPC, then there wouldn't be very many quests around. I've never quite understood the fierce opposition to GMs actually having some modicum of control in the direction of a quest, rather leaving everything and anything in the hands of the players. The best kind of quest, in my opinion, is a collaboration between the staff running it and the players participating in it to create a story with multiple paths. Characters should be able to spin off whole new sub-chapters with their roleplay and influence a storyline's direction. Thus far, that's what I've tried to do.

The fact that you can't suddenly go 'Nyeh, screw this quest. *boom* *end*' shouldn't really be considered a detriment to a storyline.

So I'd guess our definitions on player-driven differ.

Meh, I have to get up at 6am. Be back on Monday. :P

~ V

[SpunGirl]

Isn't Voaris a lesser spirit? That's not the same thing as an arkati. And while some PCs, through their training, do gain an understanding of mana... I'm sure it's nothing like the arkati's understanding. Again, they are not of the lesser races. PCs are.

-K

[Shonison]

Well all I ask, V, is that you give the evil ones a chance to win the whole thing. You might already have plans for that, but the whole Ulstram snagging piece four kinda shook me. As a player, I'd love to see the good guys get destroyed for a change (if they lost fairly).

[StrayRogue]

My contention, is V, and thanks for posting, is that these super powered baddies and goodies not only detract from the nature of us being the hero's of GS and not merely peonic little watchers, but are just a bit hard to believe in the long run.

For example, if Morvule can summon epic legions of dangerous creatures, why does he have to entrust finding something so important as the a sword fragment to such weak little mortals? Why can't he just go *POP* teleport himself to the location and take it? Or send one of these immense 800 AS/DS/CS/TD critters to find it? Why leave it to chance? You can say "they don't know where it is, the magical effect is too strong for them...blah blah blah" all you want. They've shown no weakness to ANYTHING else, so to suddenly have this one, to me, smells a bit funny. It just doesn't seem very realistic.

Edited to add: Now I appreciate WHY you wish to want them to stay alive. Of all the reasons you could say for wanting them so powerful, I'd believe "because I don't want some idiot to kill them" the most. However, and even when it would seem more characterful or even realistic for an NPC to be killable or even weak, this doesn't change. This goes onto a point mentioned in the initial few posts here, why are merchants so frigging powerful? I've asked this hundreds of times to no answer - if merchants like Sproink are so damn uber, why are they wasting their time with customers that obvious bore/piss them off making piddly amounts of money when they could be pillaging OTF or small continents or the landing?

Sorry it just wreaks of poor creativity, a need for domiance or a bad form of characterization for me.



[Edited on 20-8-05 by StrayRogue]

[Drew]

Bah, total crap, I just made this three page post about my thoughts on the GSS and question in general and how Templeton ruined the whole damn thing for me and this Macintosh has somehow deleted it. Never post on a mac!

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Shonison
the whole Ulstram snagging piece four kinda shook me. As a player, I'd love to see the good guys get destroyed for a change (if they lost fairly).

I guess you are conveniently forgetting that the Resistance was the first to the chamber? The finding of the fourth piece was no more "rigged" than the finding of the third.

...though personally, I think there should have been consequences due to the gratuitous slaying of Nershuul in the Manor. He was bound and in a Sanctuary. No threat.... yet the bloodthirst of the people there (yourself included, if I remember correctly) overcame them and they killed him anyway. Smells like Taint to me. :cool:

[Asha]

OMG I didn't get picked 4 teh alt3r.
= Dead merchant.

Well. Weak argument but I can't think of another reason merchants have uberness about them.

[HouseofElves]

Morvule does alters now?! OMG SHIMMER! c00l

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Drayal
OMG I didn't get picked 4 teh alt3r.
= Dead merchant.

Well. Weak argument but I can't think of another reason merchants have uberness about them.

This doesn't make it anymore IC. In fact it's totally OOC. Nothing stops a merchant working in a sanct'd room. Nor does it give them the right to show off in rediculous ways.

[Edited on 20-8-05 by StrayRogue]

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
Morvule does alters now?! OMG SHIMMER! c00l

rofl

Yes feature alters. Everyone should go giggle and bounce all over him and ask him for work on their features.

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Drayal
OMG I didn't get picked 4 teh alt3r.
= Dead merchant.

Well. Weak argument but I can't think of another reason merchants have uberness about them.

This doesn't make it anymore IC. In fact it's totally OOC. Nothing stops a merchant working in a sanct'd room. Nor does it give them the right to show off in rediculous ways.

[Edited on 20-8-05 by StrayRogue]

I'll agree, Stray. It seems like creating an temporary sanct in an area where a merchant is operating would work better, from an IC perspective, than endowing a simple merchant with uber powers. It would accomplish the same purpose (keeping the merchant alive in the face of idiots like SeanyDigital) without making the merchant seem like some kind of super-being.

I've never had a problem with demi-gods with uber powers. It's always been the merchants' display of these powers that sorta rubbed me the wrong way.

[Jolena]

Oddly enough I thought that this thread was about Morvule's CS and the GSS, not merchants.

I'll put in my two cents on GSS though. Jolena's been around since the sword first got split apart and sent to four different areas. At the beginning, she was wayyyy too young to do anything and I was too new to the game to do much but stand in awe and go 'wow, neat!' because I'd not experienced any quests up until that point. It was awe inspiring for my character and I thought how neat it would be to witness the rest of it. I participated in the search for one of the pieces, managed to get into a militia (ATK at the time) and participated in the Ta'Illistim portion as the first big interaction for Jolena, and ever since then have been following it somewhat actively.

Jolena was there during the Solhaven Sieges and through Eryael's domination and slaying of local townsfolk. She was there when Morvule showed up in the Landing recently as well and she was even in the exploration into the mind of the High Priest. She also participated in the rescue of the last piece of the sword etc.

The thing is, as much as she's been active, and even once Morvule tracked her down for her smart ass mouth and tortured her (heh! that was fun and skeery), she's still not in the 'loop' with the events going down. It's a tad frustrating that the same folks are always in the know about things and always seem to be the people in the right place at the right time, but I look at it like this: I *did* get to have some fun RP while I was able to be involved during the events I mentioned. I *did* get to interact with some NPC's and try to put my own turn of events on the quest, and my character *can* tell the story to her friends and family with some actual first hand knowledge. That to me, is what quests are supposed to be about. Even if noone else remembers Jolena being there or her part in it, Jolena knows she was and it's shaped her life as a character.

As to the insane powers of the Arkati Avatars. I think that they should be insanely powerful. They are the representatives of the Arkati, ordained by them and as such given special powers. Powers that noone else would be given and it makes perfect sense to me that they would be 'uber powerful' and at times even 'untouchable'. I'm not saying it's not ever frustrating for me as a player or Jolena as a character to not be able to touch them at all attack wise, but it's very understandable why they are like that.

[StrayRogue]

It still doesn't answer the following though:

Why do such beings leave mere, pitiful mortals to do such important work like retrieving each piece?

Why do merchants share such God-like powers?

[Jolena]

I don't personally think merchants should have those same powers to be honest. I just didn't realize this thread was about merchants, i thought it was about Morvule and the GSS.

As to why the Avatars have mortals do their work for them, I would not know. Personally, I look at it like the Avatars themselves are looking for the item they want and their followers are helping them in hopes of favor in the Avatar's eyes by looking as well, Hoping that they might find it beforehand and get a reward of some sort, either by power or recognition or monetarily.

I've never seen a Avatar ask a group of adventurers to fetch a piece of the sword for them. I've only seen the adventurers take it upon themselves to help while the Avatar is looking and setting up a strategy to get it away from the other side's Avatar.

[Fallen]

It still doesn't answer the following though:

Why do such beings leave mere, pitiful mortals to do such important work like retrieving each piece?

Why do merchants share such God-like powers? >>

Stray, I have voiced this concern on the official boards some time ago. The answers they gave in defense were as pathetic as you would imagine them to be.

1. People think its funny, and love Sproink. Its too much fun to go and get slaughtered by him to get caught up with the "how comes".
2. Merchants can perform magics in the form of services that often require them to have insane amounts of powers.
3. GMs don't want people to threaten their merchants, or be forced to work in a sanctuary just to appease some people's opinions of what a merchant should be.
4. Just because a merchant is all powerful, doesn't mean they care about the world's events.

I could go on and on. I think it is stupid as well, and should be stopped. Why not just higher Sproink to kill everyone? Because he doesn't want to? It maims the suspension of disbelief.

Others do agree that merchants can be overpowered, and many alternatives were suggested. I have even seen some of these alternatives used (Body guards, odd ways of defending themselves, ect). However, Sproink is very popular, and I doubt will be taking his 1000+ AS out of the lands any time soon.

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by Fallen]

[HarmNone]

I can understand the quests, and the powers of those close to the Arkati. I can also come up with reasons why the Arkati might enlist the assistance of "mere mortals" in their search for items, or to vanquish a foe. A sword, magical or otherwise, is still a "worldly" item. Why not enlist the mortals in a quest for such an item? After all, in most cases, that item benefits the mortals far more than it benefits the Arkati.

Aside from the fun and adventure it provides for players, such an outlook isn't that different from that which exists on our earth, in our times. Whoever (or whatever) your "God" might be, you wouldn't ask him to retrieve your lost shoestring for you. If your car is stolen, you don't ask that higher being to get it back for you. It's up to you to put into motion things that will result in the retrieval of said shoestring, or said car.

As to the merchants, I've already said I don't agree that these folks should have uber powers. They're salesmen. :shrug:

[Shonison]

<< I guess you are conveniently forgetting that the Resistance was the first to the chamber? The finding of the fourth piece was no more "rigged" than the finding of the third. >>

We were told we missed 3 shrines of the enemy that, if destroyed, would have allowed us to win the third piece. It was rigged in the Alliance's favor, but not nearly as much as piece 4 was for the good guys. As far as the chamber, what's your point? There should have been a puzzle to get past, and if the resistance had gotten it before the DA arrived, then good for them.

<<...though personally, I think there should have been consequences due to the gratuitous slaying of Nershuul in the Manor. He was bound and in a Sanctuary. No threat.... yet the bloodthirst of the people there (yourself included, if I remember correctly) overcame them and they killed him anyway. Smells like Taint to me. :cool: >>

I agree. We've been punished for every act of bloodlust, except for that one. Shonison, however, cares absolutely nothing for the sword. To him, it is a symbol of endless war, and if he ever found a piece, he would take it to the rift and throw it in the nearest void. Nershuul certainly isn't his first act of bloodlust in this quest..heh.

[StrayRogue]

I can only imagine the typical ass-kissers response to your post, Fallen. I imagine Iscikella posted. WTF. And these people are meant to be the RP elite. What a bunch of douches if they think for one moment they can justify a powerful merchant with pitiful reasons like that, they must be off their rocker - or hoping to becomes GM's themselves.

[Mekthros]

>>With about 60 people in all, it would have been a bloodbath to remember for years. Sadly, the sanctuary and Ulstram ruined that.

I was, actually, relieved to see that a sanctuary had been installed. If you think about what options the Alliance PCs, including myself, had for that night, I think you'll quickly see why. I didn't consider any CvC scenario a "winning" one.

If Alliance had won out in a CvC fight, it would have been through use of area spells, specifically, open implosion. That's the only shot we had, and it was a pretty cheap shot, at that. Did you really want the shard piece to go to the side that happened to get off the first cast, then stacked endless RT on the opposition while killing them all? I didn't, and I knew that's what it would come down to.

Additionally, it goes without saying that if we did win, there would be extreme bitterness for months to come, and a lot of angry people. I really didn't want to deal with that, and I'm betting most of the other Alliance PCs weren't terribly keen on the idea either.

When we stepped into that room, I still wasn't sure what I was going to do. The possibility of success was real, and so was the total lack of desire to have the hunt for the fourth shard end in some lame first-spell-wins slaughter. In the end, we didn't have to choose; Voraviel and Lothwyn had eliminated that as an option by putting the sanctuary up. I really think that was ideal.

As for the equality or inequality of the rush for the fourth piece, parallels can certainly be drawn to finding the third. The Resistance didn't destroy enough hidden shrines, so the shard was released earlier in the fight with the Miscere'golab. This, in turn, allowed Maimara to find it while the Resistance was still fighting the creature.

Reasons could likely be found to explain why the shrines were difficult or easy to find and destroy, and what impacted those reasons, and so on, back to the beginning of the quest. What you do in the past will impact your success rates in the present and future.

We were not realistically expecting to acquire the fourth shard, due to the massive failure of the assault on Morvule the night before. We kept our snakey dark lord alive and active (we kind of like him a lot), but we lost the shard. Things often balance out, which is a sign of a well run quest.

So, if an event, even one as major as finding a shard, seems weighted towards/against one side or the other, there's usually a good reason. If you did X one night, it might give you a better (or worse) shot at doing Y another night.

If you just look at the narrow probability of Resistance succeeding vs. Alliance succeeding for a single event, you'll miss the larger, more relevant picture. In doing so, you might also overlook the reasons why one side was at an advantage.

-Mekthros's player.

[Edited on 8-20-2005 by Mekthros]

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Shonison
As far as the chamber, what's your point?

My point is that for all we know if the Alliance had gotten there first, the fourth piece would have been claimed by them.


Originally posted by Shonison
Shonison, however, cares absolutely nothing for the sword. To him, it is a symbol of endless war, and if he ever found a piece, he would take it to the rift and throw it in the nearest void. Nershuul certainly isn't his first act of bloodlust in this quest..heh.

True enough. The Resistance has really just de-evolved into "Whoever shows up," and has become nothing more than the cumbersome plot-foils of the tight-knit Alliance.


Originally posted by Mekthros
Additionally, it goes without saying that if we did win, there would be extreme bitterness for months to come, and a lot of angry people. I really didn't want to deal with that, and I'm betting most of the other Alliance PCs weren't terribly keen on the idea either.

You honestly believe there will be no bitterness if The Resistance wins? If you do, you're living in a dream-world.

The "We could have done it but I'm glad we didn't have to because the Players of Resistance characters couldn't have handled it" implication of your post is insulting.

[SpunGirl]

I don't think that's what Mekthros' post was implying at all, at least, that's not what I got from it. And yeah, I agree (and posted previously) that there would have been a TON of bitterness if the Alliance had snagged all four pieces. Go read the mayhem on the boards after the race for the second piece if you don't believe me.

-K

[Fallen]

Wow, these boards are starting to resemble the official ones. First Avaia, now Mekthros. Welcome to the PC. Interesting read.

[StrayRogue]

Ass-kissing across all formats. Resistance is futile.

[Fallen]

Yes, Strayrogue. Saying hello is kissing ass. They haven't made you a mod yet? Your just too much of a stand alone, ruthless badass not to be.

[StrayRogue]

Most likely because I don't give a shit about what people think about me, nor do I give a shit about giving my opinion when I see fit. These boards afford me this luxury. However, when, after reading and hearing about how fucking immature these boards are supposed to be by the very people who come here to post, I think it's valid to point out the various ass-kissers and idiots from the officials, I shall do so. Bearing in mind there are various threads mentioning and dedicated to the flaming to some of these various people, I'm just not the type to be a fucking hypocrite and change my attitude towards them just because they start posting.

[Fallen]

I post as much on the official boards as I do these. Both of the above players also post of the official boards, often in the same folders as I do.

It was as much as a surprise to me to see these people post here as it was you. I don't know why you would think me an ass-kisser just by welcoming them to these boards. We may not agree on some issues, Strayrogue, though I didn't realize you think I was up in Simutronics ass just because I defend the game from time to time.

I happen to like the game, and very much enjoy playing it.

[StrayRogue]

I in no way meant to refer to you as the ass-kisser Fallen. The game, in my opinion, needs more people like you.

[Miss X]

Well okay, let's not argue about it. I hate hypocrites who slate and then post on the PC as much as the next person but this isnt the place to discuss it darlings. :offtopic:

[Avaia]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
And yeah, I agree (and posted previously) that there would have been a TON of bitterness if the Alliance had snagged all four pieces.
-K

I think there will be as well (among a plethora of other emotions expressed), Spungirl. Whoever wins.

For better or worse (and in some cases both) The Griffin Sword Saga has involved near every player in the game at one point or another and to one degree or another. It's High Drama (in the good way, sometimes) in this little hobby we share, and people get involved, deeply.

It was merely the one-sided aspect of the comment I found fallacious.

I suppose I'm not surprised, though. As far back as the Siege of Ta'Illistim, at least, the Dark Alliance has been mythologized among the player base as the Misunderstood Rebels fighting against The System.... facts notwithstanding.

Funny, really. :)

[Jolena]

Eh, I don't mind them posting here. I was rather shocked when Mek's player posted but not because of some shit talking he may or may not have done. I've never seen it but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I kind of liked hearing from their side of things to be honest. It was especially interesting to hear from GM "V"

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Mekthros
We kept our snakey dark lord alive and active (we kind of like him a lot)...

lol

Also...Welcome Avaia and Mekthros! OMGHI! Love the work both of you do on your characters. Post more. Or else.

[Mekthros]

>>You honestly believe there will be no bitterness if The Resistance wins?

I'm sure there would be people upset if the Resistance wins, but I'm not here to argue about which side takes losing with more grace. Feel free to begin the discussion -- for purposes of this post, it's moot.

You used "wins" instead of "won", so we're not on the same page. I wasn't talking about the quest as a whole when I said "win". I was talking about winning a CvC fight on the night that the fourth piece was found.

Losing a shard piece is one thing. Getting completely slaughtered while doing it is something else entirely. This would've made some people extremely bitter, and that was just another reason why having the shard hunt end in mass death would've been bad. End of story.

>>The "We could have done it but I'm glad we didn't have to because the Players of Resistance characters couldn't have handled it" implication of your post is insulting.

I'm sure it would've been, if that'd been my implication. I suspect most of the others who read the post understood it wasn't.

Take a step back, chill out, and try not to get insulted whenever you think somebody's stepped on your toes.

Infer whatever you want from the post. I just dropped in to give my perspective on why a bloodbath would've been a poor idea.

-Mekthros's player.

[Asha]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The game, in my opinion, needs more people like you.

I agree.
Just they need to be less harsh towards cute Delf rangers. ;)

I once saw Sproink flip a spring at someone with more than a thousand AS.
So I agree that's horseshit.
Which other merchants had stupid and out of character power? I can only think of Sproink.

[Fallen]

I once saw Sproink flip a spring at someone with more than a thousand AS.
So I agree that's horseshit.
Which other merchants had stupid and out of character power? I can only think of Sproink. >>

I imagine every NPC character has available to them the ability to instantly kill a character. Lightning bolts from the heavens and all that.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Fallen
I imagine every NPC character has available to them the ability to instantly kill a character. Lightning bolts from the heavens and all that.

Not ones run by GHs. Anyhow, I think he meant those that use the abilities in-character.

[Fallen]

Official word about the GSS from GM Lothwyn...

----

Ulstram has stated that it would be near impossible to destroy a piece - for pretty much the reasons listed here. You wouldn't be able to find a means to effectively destroy it that it could not be found, or corrected.

Kerl wrote:

> Times do change of course, but I do hope that the writers of this particular quest don't trample all over the history of the sword in their effort to write an interesting story. This quest has been going on so long, that I can see how it would be easy to lose sight of where it all started while working diligently towards some fantastical end.

While the quest has been going on for sometime, we've not lost the core history behind the object, nor the core storyline that we're working on. We may have had some bumps, some twists, and other issues that were not originally planned, but we're maintaining the integrity of the storyline. We never had an ending originally planned for this saga, but we had a goal in mind. Eventually, as we progressed through the chapters, the ending pretty much is writing itself now.

And yes, all good things must come to an end -- and so too shall the Griffin Sword Saga. We're in the Last Chapter. All the building and development is near and/or finished. We're currently trying to get the blood pumping once more, and then when we start full-steam, it probably will only last three weeks.

So I'd advise anyone who wants to see the ending to get back involved - no matter how much you've missed, where you left off, or are just coming in.

L

[SpunGirl]

With regards to merchant s00per powers, I once saw some being used in what I consider a good way.

Souki was doing feature alterations. There were about fifteen of us in the tent, and she said she'd work for all of us and then closed the doors. This was right when they first started doing feature alts and people would trample over the dead bodies of infants to get one. Anyway, people started phasing through the tent flap and Souki got pissed.

After asking those that had phased in to leave (nicely), she completey wasted them. I can't remember whether they were allowed to be moved back outside or if she made them rot, but it was good nonetheless. As one of the waiting customers, I was thankful that the dolts were dealt with quickly.

-K

[Edited on 8-21-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Fallen]

For those of you who don't read the official boards, here is a summery of the GSS from the player of (I believe) Alisaire.

----
Once upon a time, there was this spiffy sword, consecrated to Lorminstra. It was wielded by Morfell Destrieder, and eventually, he grew corrupt and made a pact with the four Arkati of the Dark Alliance - V'tull, Mularos, Sheru, and Luukos. They corrupted the blade and it shattered into four pieces. After a long and bloody struggle, the sword was eventually put back together by the Forces of Good and shoved in a stone outside Lorminstra's Temple in the Landing. This was the first quest involving the Griffin Sword.

Fast forward a few years, and a prophet of Lorminstra comes by, and says "Hey, sword's tainted from, y'know, before, I'm going to hold a ritual to remove the taint. Wanna watch?" And so the masses gathered, and Ulstram began his ritual, and four Priests crashed the party. These Priests represented the four Arkati of the Dark Alliance - Zerroth the Berzerker for V'tull, Eryael the Painlord for Mularos, Draezir for Sheru and Morvule for Luukos. (Draezir and Morvule are far too sophisticated for freaky eeeevil titles, don'cha know.) There was a battle then, but the taint proved too strong for the blade, and it shattered once again, into four pieces, that flung themselves to the four corners.

Thus began the quest for the sword pieces. The first, the hilt, was found on Teras, where Zerroth's legions were beseiging the area. Siwas accompanied a group led by Ulstram that sought to find it, and managed to get her hands on it, and later gave it up to the Painlord Eryael.

The quillions were found in the vicinity of Solhaven, after Draezir conquered the town and renamed it Nighthaven. Alisaire obtained it and gave it up to the Priest of Sheru, ostensibly in exchange for his abandonment of Solhaven.

The third piece was found in Ta'Illistim, the night the great Miscere'Golab rose (giant undead construct thinger, with tentacles and nipple piercings). Maluverre and his trusty little airship took a group of what by now was being called the 'Resistance' into our dear sweet Missy and they killed her good. The third piece, the pommel, was recovered by Maimara underneath the city, and offered to the Painlord Eryael.

The fourth piece, the blade, was tracked back to Solhaven, to the hands of a merchant who obtained it, well aware of what it was, from the dwarves that had recovered it. He'd hidden it away and set traps, so that if he was killed, its hiding place would cave in on itself.

Zerroth laid siege to Solhaven, and sought to find the blade, but his mind was invaded by Ulstram and Chaeye the Dreamwalker (Ronan's chosen or a crazy old elven bat? You be the judge!) and he was put in a deep slumber. The intent was death, I think, but something didn't go quite right.

Eryael set himself upon the town in his own twisted little way, torturing citizens and leaving mutilation victims all over the place, in an attempt to get Ulstram to give up the location of the merchant who had claimed the blade. His mind, too, was invaded, though Chaeye had long since disappeared. This time it was with the help of Ablen, a paladin of Phoen. Eryael too succumbed to slumber, as the process was once again impeded from within (and maybe without).

Morvule gathered a great undead army in the Sea of Fire, bringing with him the Horrors of Bir Mahallah (ruined haunted city in the desert, big bad mojo), and set them against Solhaven. The horde was vast and, uh, horrifying. An attempt was made to enter the mind of Morvule, but steps were taken by the Alliance to set a trap. Morvule turned the technique around and instead ripped the knowledge he sought, the location of the merchant, from Ulstram's mind, and flew off to interrogate his prey.

Kendryth, Ulstram's ward and a paladin of Koar (once? still? I dunno), set off to protect the merchant, and managed to guilt the location of the blade out of him before Morvule got to him. Kendryth and Morvule fought, Morvule lost a hand and Kendryth got the everloving crap beat out of him, but he survived.

Enter the race for the blade of the Griffin Sword. Ulstram and his crew got there first and obtained the final shard, and that's where we stand now - the forces of light claim one piece of Lorminstra's sword, the forces of darkness claim three.

That's the main thrust of the quest. There have been side-plots and spinoffs and currently, there's a bit with Volierre, a crazy elven seer that's been popping up now and again with information, and Maluverre, our favorite scholar with the airship, wrapped up in some business with a temple and a Gosaena sect.

Lots of detail was left out of this. I don't have the time or energy to write a book. And some of my included details might be off or misleading, but hey, I've only been personally involved since the quest came back to Solhaven.

Hope this is mildly enlightening for the uninitiated.

- Jen et cetera.

[Edited on 8-22-2005 by Fallen]

[Stunseed]

< - Jen et cetera. >

I thought that was Avidleigh, but I could be wrong.

[Fallen]

Could be. I dont (can't) really walk in those circles.

[Anebriated]

I thought that was Avidleigh, but I could be wrong.

She is back?

[Shonison]

She posts a lot, and I do think it is Avidleigh, but I never see her in game.

[StrayRogue]

That is Avidleigh.

[Sex Shoggoth]

Wee. Back from Daytona with lotsa new snaaaakes.


Originally posted by StrayRogue
For example, if Morvule can summon epic legions of dangerous creatures, why does he have to entrust finding something so important as the a sword fragment to such weak little mortals? Why can't he just go *POP* teleport himself to the location and take it? Or send one of these immense 800 AS/DS/CS/TD critters to find it?


Well, we've always had that whole 'holy crap they're not full of uber-power anymore!' thing going on since Ulstram and Morvule blew up the sword way back when. It's essentially like trying to find fist-sized rock in the Himalayas. You may have a whole bunch of evil henchmen at your disposal and an atom bomb up your sleeve, but a-bombs don't help you finding that rock. Henchmen do, and in essence the entire 'army' of the DA has been looking for it since day one -- in the background. We'd often make mention of it with other NPCs -- saying the DA was looking for it and reports of their forces were in the vicinity of <blah>, far to the <direction> of <blah>. I suppose we could've done more, such as news items, etc, but going for that much effort to inform the populace of something they couldn't really participate in or see directly didn't seem like a good idea.

We once mussed around with the idea of having quiet invasions in far-out hunting areas or travel paths, but that usually doesn't work unless you have all day to hang around and maintain it and hope someone notices.

It just so happens that when major powers clash in an effort to fight over it, it keeps them very busy, thus letting the players that aren't in those massive armies of good and evil get a chance at it. Yeah, that seems very unlikely, and yeah, I'd like to, you know, tweak mechanics so you *could* wage sieges and be in opposing armies and whatnot, but that's a rant for another day.

As for their seemingly uber power, we have shown their limits. Draezir was unable to personally show up and kick ass in Solhaven for a while due to maintaining shadowy evil critters and stealthy Sheruvian ninja-magic that kept his HQ in Solhaven hidden. All four of the priests went out of commission (Zerroth almost died) for a while after summoning the big honkin' FF Boss critter ripoff complete with bastardized angelic name. Zerroth was smackable by PCs when he went into fits of rage. Eryael was hittable, too, but he doesn't count since he's a little pansy that lurves the whippins. 2 out of 4 priests are dormant due to efforts on part of the players. It would've been 3 if they had succeeded in the last mission. So, the precedents of their fallibility are there, they're just really big, difficult precedents.

As for the merchant question, I don't know, really. It's a personal preference, and as such, the reasons will vary widely. I off people all the time with Raziras because it's funny and fits the irreverant nature of the character and what he does. He does it purely with acts, tho. I'm guessing most of the time it's just 'I don't want to deal with PvP. *crank stats*'. That's what it was when I started out as a GM, the 'fun' of the cranked stats thing gets old pretty quick, though, and I generally just mellowed out to having a sanct in the room and normal stats. The two that do still have high stats are not-retired warriors/assassins that have a Martha Stewart/Jimmy the Tulip complex going on, so they merchant on the side and rarely show up because of their more interesting day jobs.

They just don't bake turkey suppositories or raise cute little chickens.

That's my experience with merchants, tho, I can't speak for anyone else on the matter.

~ V

[HouseofElves]

That is Avidleigh, she's been in game consistantly for at least two years. And she is very hot, for a half-Tehiri.