An animal killing Nazi's point of view

[Killer Kitten]

I typed out this reply to Showal's post in the other thread, then realized that this was going off topic, so decided to post it here instead.

As soon as I post it, I'm going to toddle on over to the shelter and give them a donation in Respite's players memory. He was an animal guy and I think he'd have liked that.

In the meantime, here is the quote from Showal and the thoughts it stirred up in me when I read it.


Originally posted by Showal
Or you could bring them to a no-kill shelter ... they don't euthanize like nazis.

They also don't take animals that people just show up with.
Most no-kill shelters put an animal on a 'waiting list' for admission. The average wait time is two to eight months for a place to open up in the shelter.
Cats are luckier in this regard than dogs. Some shelters will take in cats abandoned on the premises, others send them on to the pound or euthanize them (yes, even the no kill shelters).

Dogs are a different story, because in most places dogs are licensed and considered 'property'. Most places require that dogs be surrendered to the local pound, so any dogs abandoned at the no kill shelter are forwarded to the pound and dealt with accordingly.

North Shore used to put a 'flag' on dogs abandoned there, and would reclaim them from the pound after their time was up, if they were considered adoptable.

Also, and this on a personal note... it's not really fair to label shelters that practice euthanasia as 'nazis'. Most animal shelter employees are not drooling sadists racing around with syringes full of the pink juice praying to find something to shoot full of the stuff. Most of them, in fact, loathe what they have to do, even while bowing to the necessity.

In the rural shelter in Ohio where I work, so far this year we have had over 3000 cats abandoned. Think about that number for a second. Three THOUSAND... just so far this year, in this one little shelter out in the country.

I have 18 cats living with me, 13 of my own and 5 kittens I took home to foster until room can be found in the shelter for them. (Two of my 13 are cats that failed their basic health checks and would have been euthanized if I hadn't taken them home and nursed them back to health myself. We do not have the resources at the shelter to cure even the simplest of ailments, and two weeks of antibiotics and TLC is beyond our resources.) All of my co-workers are in the same boat, some with cats, some with dogs, some with both. The shelter is so full we have cats living in carriers stacked in the hallways because there is absolutely no other place to put them and we don't want to kill them.

You sit there smugly calling us Nazis... what in the HELL do you expect us to do. We spay/neuter hundreds of animals a week at minimum cost and the s/n clinic is still like a gigantic hole in the universe that we just pour money into that we don't have. We blanket the surrounding counties with spay certificates and tons of literature, and still the flood doesn't cease.

So... instead of calling us Nazis as we frantically try bailing out the Titanic with a coffee cup, enlighten us instead. What would you have us do? All serious suggestions are welcomed, we're not winning the battle and we sure as hell know it, and all that keeps us going is the few we can save, like this little guy...

[Asha]

Take them to Mc D's.

[Showal]

My quote was in response to Gridlock's statement in which he used the "like nazis" quote. I know the story behind no kills and kill shelters. I was commenting on his statement.

Edited to add:

I haven't been able to look at this in full until now since I'm at work. As you think I unfairly labelled you as a nazi, I think you unfairly labelled me in your post. I understand what it's like to have to put animals down because it's not "useful" anymore or because no one wants it.

I have had several animals that I took in because they weren't wanted and were going to be put down.

I wasn't calling you or kill shelter employees nazis. I was responding to Gridlock's post. So instead of me offering you an explanation on what to do, why don't you offer me an explanation why you pointed me out in this way?

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Showal]

[Showal]

Originally posted by Gridlock
Shoulda left em there for a qucik death the shelter is just gona killem like nazi's anyways

[Doyle Hargraves]

What would you have us do?

Have Bob Barker make a special guest appearance at your shelter with a free picture and autograph to anyone who adopts a pet.

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Lookkin]

I donno Kitten - but I am a major sympathizer for shelters (regardless of their status). I think your group provides a valuable community service that has a limited number of viable solutions. What is implied in your statement is the reality - you can't save every single one of them, even though you wish you could.

Good luck.


Lookkin

[Leetahkin]

Big :thumbsup: from me.
I try not to think about all those animals in shelters who have to be put down.
But I do, and then I get angry at reckless pet owners who cause that to happen (not getting animals spayed/neutered, putting them out on the street because they don't want them any longer, etc.)

I know if I won the lottery (I can dream!) I'd be donating money to some shelters... at the very least the no-kill shelter I rescued my girls from.

[GSLady17]

A quick death? If they are lucky. If not, they could lay there for quite some time before they bleed to death.

Shelter is at least is peaceful and doesn't hurt them.



My parents have 6 cats, 3 are strays I brought home. I could never work at a shelter---I'd bring them all home with me and cry everytime we put one down. I do understand why though.

All our cats are fixed. If you don't want kittens, that is what you should do. If you don't, I think you should have to keep them.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by GSLady17
A quick death? If they are lucky. If not, they could lay there for quite some time before they bleed to death.

Shelter is at least is peaceful and doesn't hurt them.



My parents have 6 cats, 3 are strays I brought home. I could never work at a shelter---I'd bring them all home with me and cry everytime we put one down. I do understand why though.

All our cats are fixed. If you don't want kittens, that is what you should do. If you don't, I think you should have to keep them.

Wow now if we could only get people to do the same thing.

[MangledKitty]

A good solution if you have too many animals just stick out a sign that says "Free" and there you go. The people would have to buy the supplies needed for the animal and, possibly after a few years or so with the money you could build a bigger shelter/add on so more animals could be kept.

But I do thank you for being kind and doing the best you can for these animals. I can only imagine how hard it must be to see an innocent life alive one moment then the next not. I personally could never do that, but it has to be done. Sometimes its for the best and someone has to do it.

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by MangledKitty]

[GSLady17]

When you have so many cats, free does not always work. Yeah with 50 cats maybe....but with 3000 in a small area?

[MangledKitty]

I didn't know people were only limited to getting one. There are a lot of animal lovers out there and if the cats are somehow related or seem to like one another the people would feel bad to seperate them and get them both. Atleast I would...And I don't see too many people going to pass up a free animal opportunity. I know when I went into a pet store and saw that there was free dogs, I intended on getting a fish but walked out with two puppies.

[Showal]

<<And I don't see too many people going to pass up a free animal opportunity. I know when I went into a pet store and saw that there was free dogs, I intended on getting a fish but walked out with two puppies.>>

In general (and I'm speaking in generalities here, not against you), getting pets "spur of the moment" is a really bad bad way to get a pet. Most people will feel like "I want to get this SO bad" one day and they will get it but be ill prepared to properly care for it. This results in people giving animals up to animal shelters or people not getting their pets spayed/neutered. Ultimately it can, and does, extend the problem and make it continue.

Domesticated pets should be spayed/neutered. Even in door only pets. I know someone who's cat had a litter when it's never been allowed outside and male cats aren't around in the house. It happens. Pet breeding should be controlled. I know that sounds bad, but there's a huge problem.

I am accepting someone's bearded dragon in a few days that they bought spur of the moment. They didn't care for it properly because they lost interest that they had one random day. I'm going to take care of it until I can find a decent home, otherwise I will take care of it until it dies. On a side note, anyone in the MA area want a BD and can care for them? This is part of the problem as well. A lot of people don't view pets like someone who would get offended by what i'm going to say do. A lot of people see pets as an accessory. I mean, they will get a pet that is fashionable (chihuahas are now a huge with people giving them up due to the amount of care they need ... they became popular with paris hilton) or that will make the house look better (fish, cats, birds, lizards, etc). When they become a problem, a lot of people don't see something wrong with "giving up" their pet and animal shelters are an easy solution. It's a lot harder to locate a good owner than to leave a box of kittens on a shelter's doorstep anonymously.

[GSLady17]

I once stopped to pet and admire kittens outside of wal-mart. While I stood there for 5 minutes, a guy came back with a kitten saying you have to take it back my wife is going to kill me if you don't.

Then one time I was collecting donations from door to door for the jump for life program when I was 13. Here on the doorstep was a kitten that looked barely old enough to not be nursing.


it was skinny as hell and you could see the fleas crawling on it. (it was an orange cat)

When the lady answered the door the kitten tried to go inside and she kicked at it (pretty hard) and said "damn kids brought a cat home from wal mart"

Yeah...as you can see our town is so flipping small, walmart is the highlight.


After, she was real nice and gave me 5 dollars.

She closed the door and I started to leave. The kitten followed me a little and I looked back and it stopped and sat down. I then went and grabbed it, stuffed it up my shirt and really did run home as fast as I could.

Yes, she probably wouldn't have cared that I took it, but I was 13 and thought I was doing something that I'd end up in jail for hehe.

I told my parents I found him in a box in the woods. My dad was ticked at first because we already had 4 cats but when we had given him a bath and he looked cute instead of a drowned rat, we set him on my dads lap and the kitten immediatly went over and took a drink of my dads beer before he could stop him.

Yep, Cat knew exactly what to do to win my dad over.


We named him woody. My mom later got the real story out of me but told me not to tell my dad. :lol:




Last halloween, 6 cats were found with their heads chopped off.


I'd rather a cat go to sleep and never wake up peacefully then be given away as free to god only knows who to be tortured and neglected.

Use them as a cheap source of food. Its a good way to help all these starving people in America.

[GSLady17]

Even better, we could let somebody who worked on that farm with the horse take a free cat.


Remember, it's not illegal to screw animals. I'm sure that cat would like that a lot better.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by Dave
Use them as a cheap source of food. Its a good way to help all these starving people in America.

That's it, I'm changing my avatar when I get home to the cat one I have.

[Showal]

Originally posted by Dave
Use them as a cheap source of food. Its a good way to help all these starving people in America.

Brilliant idea.

[Latrinsorm]

I say ship them (the overflow of unadoptable pets) to Africa. Way more starving people over there.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Dave
Use them as a cheap source of food. Its a good way to help all these starving people in America.

A Modest Proposal II: Feline Food?

Jorddyn

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Showal

Originally posted by Dave
Use them as a cheap source of food. Its a good way to help all these starving people in America.

Brilliant idea.

Jonathan Swift would agree.

Jorddyn

[Showal]

ha. i dont know who that is but i was being sarcastic.

Anyways, I'm not of the mindset that one type of shelter is really in the end better than the next ... but I personally would not adopt from a kill shelter.

[Showal]

or we could use gridlock's other solution given in that thread ...


Originally posted by Gridlock

Originally posted by Arkans
Good work. You did the right thing. Now only if we could euthanize Gridlock.

- Arkans

What did i do ?Most of those places suck and kill the dogs after a week around here. Its like deathrow for dogs.

Ida put an add in the paper and kept em at my house if at all possible. If not id go dumb em some rednecks yard he could use em to hunt or eat em one.

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Showal]

[Killer Kitten]

Somehow I managed to double post instead of edit, so I'll leave the edited one up and erase the original. The suggestions about offering free animals and the story about the Wal-Mart givaways brought this essay to mind. I couldn't find my copy of it, but I did find a link to it.

If you love cats and kittens at all, it's sure to strike a chord.

http://cats.about.com/cs/kittencare/a/freekittuns.htm

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Killer Kitten]

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by Showal
ha. i dont know who that is but i was being sarcastic.

Anyways, I'm not of the mindset that one type of shelter is really in the end better than the next ... but I personally would not adopt from a kill shelter.

Just remember that the animals in the no-kill shelter are already safe. The guys in the kill shelter are not, they gotta get adopted or get the pink stuff.

I know I myself much preferred working at NSAL, Bide-A-Wee and other no-kill shelters, but unfortunately I don't live there anymore and what I gots is what there is.

And Showal, your statement struck a nerve with me because I know you're an animal person yourself and I couldn't believe that statement came out of your mouth (or your keyboard).

Taken at face value, which is how I took your statement, you were calling animal shelters that euthanize 'nazis' and I found the statement uninformed and offensive. I do apologise if you were offended, though, I was seeking to enlighten with my response and not offend.

Edited because I accidentally clicked post before I was done rambling.

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Killer Kitten]

[Terminator X]

If an animal is dying, you help it as much as possible.

If helping a dying animal as much as possible entails that it is helped so tremendously that it doesn't need to be euthanized because its no-kill caretakers have done what is simply super-human work, then what would the point of euthanizing said animals, if, in fact, these animals can possess a happy, sustained life up until the point of their completely natural death...

Considering that even at no-death shelters, many of the animals there, who are in the care of certain people who really give it their all, just to ensure that these animals will make it to their final day, minus a euthanizing cathoder... And that despite whatever degree of undying care, high-tech veterinary equipment and financial support exists within these facilities, their bureaucracies, their whatever... it does not distract from the reality that a lot of times, the animals are simply just suffering because they are alive, when I feel, at this point it is morally wrong to have them as such.

It is at this point, when the animal really would be better off being peacefully euthanized, that all of the well-trained and helpful staff, high-tech machinery and dollars upon dollars that pour into these shelters to make sure the animal can not be peacefully euthanized, it is then when the fact is that ultimately the message being convened here, at least to me, is that what all of this surmounts to is just merely a well-decorated form of animal torture.

:shrug:

[Showal]

I'm still convinced, but I know to the opposite, that adopting from no kills will open up a spot for another animal. By not adopting from a kill shelter, you will make it harder for them to support themselves and they'll not be around anymore. This of course would leave the no kill shelters. This isn't the case, I know otherwise, but I haven't been able to become completely comfortable with adopting from a kill shelter.

[Showal]

<<Taken at face value, which is how I took your statement, you were calling animal shelters that euthanize 'nazis' and I found the statement uninformed and offensive. I do apologise if you were offended, though, I was seeking to enlighten with my response and not offend. >>

It's alright. Sorry if i came off harshly too. I wasn't thinking about how that might look when I posted it. I'm also just a little bit more on edge lately, having just quit smoking and just put one of my pets down the other day.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by Showal
<<Taken at face value, which is how I took your statement, you were calling animal shelters that euthanize 'nazis' and I found the statement uninformed and offensive. I do apologise if you were offended, though, I was seeking to enlighten with my response and not offend. >>

It's alright. Sorry if i came off harshly too. I wasn't thinking about how that might look when I posted it. I'm also just a little bit more on edge lately, having just quit smoking and just put one of my pets down the other day.

I'm sorry SHowal, that's always hard. We lost our Tatter cat last week, she was 16 and had a stroke.

And between you and me (and the world, since I'm posting this) I'd give anything to have a no-kill shelter to work at again. Still, I'd rather help where I'm helping than not help at all, you know? And at least I can save some.