Strongest PVP Profession

[Kenn]

Just wanted to see people's opinions on the most solid PVP character out there and why.

Personally, I'd have to say a rogue. They have effective ways of dealing with both casters and other squares, they can attain a tremendous DS push down with their ambush, they can attain the same redux as a warrior, and are masters of hiding.

[Doyle Hargraves]

The best PVP profession is the one that's being played by the person with the lowest ping.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
The best PVP profession is the one that's being played by the person with the lowest ping.

:yes:

[Xandalf]

Well, in CvC terms... I'd have to say sorcerer, and no not just because Xandalf is one.


Only with sorcerers can a level 20 kill a capped anything. Implosion, both focused and unfocused, is the be all end all of CvC.

Now thats not to insinuate that Sorcerer's are all powerful. They are very suceptible to thorns, boils and ambush pushdowns.

edit: Pretty much all Manuevers.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xandalf]

[Soulpieced]

Wouldn't ranger spikethorn be in the same category as implosion?

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
Wouldn't ranger spikethorn be in the same category as implosion?

No. Focused Implosion can easily kill someone 20 levels above the sorcerer, assuming the Sorcerer is well trained.

If a ranger tried to thorn someone 20 levels above them, they won't do ANY damage unless the person is heavily encoumbered. There are exceptions, of course. (I've seen level 30 rangers with 70 ranger ranks, their thorn is very strong)

edit: Plus the unfocused implosion will hit ANYONE regardless of level.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xandalf]

[GSLady17]

It's tons easier to dodge thorn than an implosion. (from what I have seen.) Maybe I've just been lucky.

[Xandalf]

Not luck; you're exactly right, GSLady.

[Alfster]

A smart rogue wont allow an implosion to be casted at them in the first place.

I go with a rogue

cman cutthroat

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Alfster]

[GSLady17]

Again, it goes back to who ever is faster.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Alfster
A smart rogue wont allow an implosion to be casted at them in the first place.

I go with a rogue

cman cutthroat

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Alfster]

This also assumes that the two are close in level.

Like level, rogue vs sorcerer, first shot wins and Doyle's post is true.

If the sorcerer is significantly older than the rogue, the rogue would have to catch the sorcerer completly unprepared in order to ambush him. Cmans would not work.

If the rogue is significantly older than the sorcerer, even 80 levels older, the sorcerer can still kill the rogue no matter how prepared.

[Alfster]

A sorcerer cant' kill something they can't see either, so it doesn't really matter how fast they are.

stalk them and watch them piss everyone off as they try to quake you out of hiding, this is always fun

then cutthroat, groinkick

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Alfster
A sorcerer cant' kill something they can't see either, so it doesn't really matter how fast they are.

stalk them and watch them piss everyone off as they try to quake you out of hiding, this is always fun

then cutthroat, groinkick

A stalking rogue is very easy to get out of hiding, I promise.

As for the Cmans, you wont hit a sorcerer significantly older than you, nor will you hit them with your weapon if they're somewhat prepared for it.

As has been said, like level it's first cast.

[GSLady17]

well shit, then a sorc can catch the rogue unprepared as well. It works both ways! hehe


Easy to get an amulet and go invis.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by GSLady17]

[Soulpieced]

Think of it like a game of chess but simultaneous. If a sorcerer is fighting a rogue. 1st move for the rogue is going to be hide, any sorcerer who knows anything will e-wave first, which will incapacitate the rogue, then cast implode while in RT. Rogue = dead. The basic answer is any profession that can counter any other without a chance of failure will win.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by GSLady17
well shit, then a sorc can catch the rogue unprepared as well. It works both ways! hehe

::sigh:: You people arent listening!

The point is that the sorcerer doesn't have to catch the rogue unprepared. With implosion, a level 20 sorcerer can kill a level 100 rogue. The rogue HAS to catch an older sorcerer unprepared.

A level 20 rogue cannot kill a level 100, level 50, and will have great difficulty with even a 30 sorcerer unless the sorcerer is walking around spelless or without a shield/runestaff.

[Iooy]

Didn't they recently down-tweak implosion so that its more level based than anything? I mean, in one of the posts above the comment is that a lvl 20 Sorc can kill anyone with implosion. However, from what I remember see'n somewhere else it only messes up the hair.

Any imput would be nice.

[Axhinde]

Agreed Soulpieced. If you correctly anticipate your opponents first move, you could effectively counter it and be free to do as you please. It works for all professions.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Iooy
Didn't they recently down-tweak implosion so that its more level based than anything? I mean, in one of the posts above the comment is that a lvl 20 Sorc can kill anyone with implosion. However, from what I remember see'n somewhere else it only messes up the hair.

Any imput would be nice.

Regarding Focused Implosion, you are correct.

Unfocused implosion has no level factor whatsoever.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by GSLady17
well shit, then a sorc can catch the rogue unprepared as well. It works both ways! hehe

::sigh:: You people arent listening!

The point is that the sorcerer doesn't have to catch the rogue unprepared. With implosion, a level 20 sorcerer can kill a level 100 rogue. The rogue HAS to catch an older sorcerer unprepared.

A level 20 rogue cannot kill a level 100, level 50, and will have great difficulty with even a 30 sorcerer unless the sorcerer is walking around spelless or without a shield/runestaff.


Hey, I totally agree with you.

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by GSLady17
well shit, then a sorc can catch the rogue unprepared as well. It works both ways! hehe

::sigh:: You people arent listening!

The point is that the sorcerer doesn't have to catch the rogue unprepared. With implosion, a level 20 sorcerer can kill a level 100 rogue. The rogue HAS to catch an older sorcerer unprepared.

A level 20 rogue cannot kill a level 100, level 50, and will have great difficulty with even a 30 sorcerer unless the sorcerer is walking around spelless or without a shield/runestaff.

My wizard has been cast at with implosion numerous times by sorcerers older than 20, all to no effect. And my wizard isn't even capped.

Edit: With a full disk, a sorcerer can kill anything, yes. Wave disk, unfocused implode, see ya.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Axhinde]

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Axhinde

Originally posted by Xandalf

Originally posted by GSLady17
well shit, then a sorc can catch the rogue unprepared as well. It works both ways! hehe

::sigh:: You people arent listening!

The point is that the sorcerer doesn't have to catch the rogue unprepared. With implosion, a level 20 sorcerer can kill a level 100 rogue. The rogue HAS to catch an older sorcerer unprepared.

A level 20 rogue cannot kill a level 100, level 50, and will have great difficulty with even a 30 sorcerer unless the sorcerer is walking around spelless or without a shield/runestaff.

My wizard has been cast at with implosion numerous times by sorcerers older than 20, all to no effect. And my wizard isn't even capped.

If they were using focused, they were dumb.

If they were using unfocused, then they have no idea how to use it.

I have personally killed a character 50+ trains above Xandalf with extreme ease, and she KNEW I was coming after her and tried to stop it.

[GSLady17]

Wait, I've walked into a room with open implode and not died...just sucked my air away and stunned me.

But then I've also had someone a lot younger kill me with it too.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by GSLady17]

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by GSLady17
Wait, I've walked into a room with open implode and not died...just sucked my air away and stunned me.

Of course.

Most sorcerers are utter morons and leave their voids lying around. If you find someone casting open voids and leaving them, kill them. No questions asked.

If someone was trying to kill you with an unfocused void, it wouldn't have just been lying around when you walked into a room.

[Artha]

Bards. 1005, super AS, weightless weapons that can flare or double flare on every strike, sonic disruption if you hide...not much you can do to a smart bard.

[Soulpieced]

Agreed with Artha that bards are probably up there now with regards to the 1005 strength. However, would have to substitute e-wave for disrutpion, because I sure as hell can't ward anyone who's 100 except for maybe a rogue, warrior, or ranger.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Artha
Bards. 1005, super AS, weightless weapons that can flare or double flare on every strike, sonic disruption if you hide...not much you can do to a smart bard.

I love bards and their weapons.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
Agreed with Artha that bards are probably up there now with regards to the 1005 strength. However, would have to substitute e-wave for disrutpion, because I sure as hell can't ward anyone who's 100 except for maybe a rogue, warrior, or ranger.

Like level, pretty much any CvC between combative classes comes down to first strike as has been noted mutliple times in this topic.

The point I have been trying to make is that an intelligent sorcerer (above level 20) can kill ANYONE, of ANY profession, at ANY level. THAT ability is what I believe makes them the strongest CvC class.

EDIT: I'm done. I'm tired of repeating myself. Feel free to disagree with me I suppose.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xandalf]

[Kenn]

In GS, it always goes down to who gets the first move off, I'm talking strongest match ups. Rogues are still the highest IMO. And as far as rangers are concerned, they're pretty decent. Almost instant stalk, tangle weed and swarm that pulls out of invis. Also, I keep ewave / tremor imbeds with me. But a rogue will always win out IMO. And Xandalf, I've seen level 20 rogues drop 70 sorcs with their runestaves. 0 ranks in perception = big DS push down from 2x ambushing rogues. And any smart rogue would sweep / cheapshot a caster before hiding for cutthroat. Damn I wish my ranger could learn cutthroat.

[Fallen]

With the spell of Implosion (both focused and open), sorcerers are the best potential PvP class of the game. They are bound by less level, preparedness, and chance restrictions, due to the power and flexibility of the spell.

While other professions have their abilities to kill far above their level, they cannot do so on a scale to compare with the ease, and situational simplicity of a sorcerer.

[Gushi]

A rogue mastered in cutthroat has the same chance to silence a Sorcerer 20 trains above him as that Sorc has to implode him so it boils down to speed. A rogue can hit the shodows long before a Sorc can become invisible and once the throat is cut it's all over :cool:

This debate has always been ridiculously stupid. Considering it really is the first one to act wins. Now, things have changed quite drastically with the introduction of Psinet and INCANT.

It used to be that the warrior was hands down best in PvP due to only one line of syntax needing to being inputting into warcry. You just how. Where as the sorcerer needed to both prep AND cast at the target. Assuming that both use macros, the warrior always would come out ahead.

Now, with INCANT or with aliases, the caster only need only one line "410 Arkans" or something similiar to induce RT. It comes down to the fastest ping.

If rogues hide first, they are done, simple as that. They'll need a whole seperate line of command in AFTER 3 seconds of hard RT. The only chance is cheapshot, once again, one line of command.

So, it comes down to just that. Assuming both are like level then it all comes down who strikes first.

Sheer killing power? Definately sorcerer. The fact that open implosion will, 100%, kill a stunned target NO MATTER THE LEVEL is enough to put them over the top with sheer firepower. Drop some full plate or even some daggers or let the air of the void stun your opponent, dispell, cast the second void and you have a guarnteed win.

- Arkans

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Alfster
A smart rogue wont allow an implosion to be casted at them in the first place.

I go with a rogue

cman cutthroat

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Alfster]

Thats why you carry wands and a killrogue macro for pussy cutthroats.

Xyelin is brawler and maxed perception btw. ROCK THE MUTHA FUKIN HOUSE!

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xyelin]

[Matt-Ichiban]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Thats why you carry wands and a killrogue macro for pussy cutthroats.

Xyelin is brawler and maxed perception btw. ROCK THE MUTHA FUKIN HOUSE!

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xyelin]

Lawl what is Xyelin? If he's a caster that perception is going to mean nothing vs rogue. 3x Stalking and Hiding 2x Ambush = http://youlose.ytmnd.com

[Jonty]

A stalking rogue is very easy to get out of hiding, I promise.

If you're talking about the sneak <invalid direction> method to get them out of your group, that doesn't work anymore.

[Snapp]

Empath are the best pvp profession!

[Miss X]

What Snapp said. :yes:

[ElanthianSiren]

Warrior Warcry
Hide
Stalk
Remove various limbs slowly, remaining joined.
Deathcrit/Cman Coupdegrace if you can use it for pvp.

I have seen all but the coupdegrace part done with sick success.

-M

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Jonty

If you're talking about the sneak <invalid direction> method to get them out of your group, that doesn't work anymore.

Unless it changed recently, typing LEAVE will do the trick.

[Jonty]

That doesn't work.

[GSLady17]

Run to a table and hide like a little...

[StrayRogue]

Profession or Skill has nothing to do with anything because all that matters is whose commands get processed by GS first.

[Drew]

As has been said tons of times, it's very often first shot. As far as I'm concerned, if you are talking about PvP, sorcerers are tops. If you are talking about more organized dueling where levels are usually close and mass damage spells are banned it can be broken down a bit better.


First things first, professions that have no recourse to someone hiding: Empaths and clerics. No knockdown spells, very susceptible to ambush. That makes them weak profession for PvP since several professions have good hiders. (rogues, rangers, and minority of warriors). Warriors don't have a way of pulling someone from hiding (we aren't using any imbeds here, because then everybody can use them) but are the least bothered by ambushes. Rogues have a good chance of spotting hiders and are the second least bothered by hiding.


So we can eliminate empaths and clerics in dueling as the "best" duelers because they have a demonstrable weakness.

Next we can look at what professions have non-warding attacks that have a very low chance of failure. That is:

Bards: sleep
Rangers: thorn
Wizards: boil earth
Sorcerers: focused implosion

I don't count cmans here because like level they have at least a 5% chance of failure in most cases due to open rolls (often more against the more physical professions).

Of the manuevers listed there, boil earth is the most dodgeable (just last week my character dodged 3 from a like level caster), and it's not uncommon for someone like level to dodge them (the same can be said for ewave).


That leaves, IMO, these three professions as king of the hills in structured dueling: sorcerers, bards, and rangers.


That's not to say just because a cman has a chance of failing that it will, or because you could get a low roll on a CS cast you will, all professions have a fair chance of winning, but I think those three have the highest chance.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Jonty
That doesn't work.

Well damn. It used to anyway. When did it change?

[Snapp]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Profession or Skill has nothing to do with anything because all that matters is whose commands get processed by GS first.
:yeahthat:

Or just:
prep 525
cast

Even if you die, you win! :thumbsup:

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Well damn. It used to anyway. When did it change?

Sometimes around spring or early summer. Probably spring.

[Letum]

Invisibility removes them from your group.

[Artha]

Unless that got changed too, invisibility doesn't even remove people who aren't hidden from your group.

[Asha]

Invisibility does remove them from your group.



[Edited on 8-15-2005 by Drayal]

[Asha]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Profession or Skill has nothing to do with anything because all that matters is whose commands get processed by GS first.

And that just about rounds this thread up.

[Gan]

My empath is 2:0 against rogues. At 1x perception he sees hardly a pushdown at all, and with his DS capable of going over 700 one really has to have a swing to get past the FGB and the ewave(imbed)/boneshatter combo that is eminent. The ability to cast offensively with wounds that are deabilitating to any other caster or swinger make empaths a force to be reckoned with. And even with open implosion being cast by younger sorcerers the worst he had was a 1 round stun and arm minors, with multiple casts (Rayquaza Illistim incidents) there still is a chance to get a cast off which tones down the level/age variable that implosion is suseptable of.

I forgot what my rogue is at now, he used to kill indiscriminately, now that he's involved in leadership in a PRO he at least has to have justification for a killing, by my rules.

With that said, my vote is for whomever lands the most strategic act first. Not all first acts are strategic so I'm being more specific. Each profession has a method or methods (especially with imbeds) to kill another, so he who is slowest is dead'est.

[allen]

Ok, I hardly read any of the posts in this thread...But did anyone forget about a warrior trained out in the guild? I guess it goes along the first move wins thing...When I had my warrior I had him 3x dodge and 2x CM, I hardly got hit with implodes/boils, and one shot of bellow froze any enemy, not to mention, tackle/disarm/growl...I'd say a warrior well trained in the gld, but that's just me.

[Edited on 8-15-2005 by allen]

[ieva]

I strongly believe that bard is the beast player vs. player character.
Especially if they are using polearms or two-weapon combat.
Their songs are extremely strong, a level 26 bard can effect my someone that is twenty levels above them. The combinations of spells, buffs, and phsyiscal strength rank Bard as my choice PvP class.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by ieva
Their songs are extremely strong, a level 26 bard can effect my someone that is twenty levels above them.

I find this unlikely.

[AnticorRifling]

War Mage.

[Asha]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
War Mage.

Because?
Flash their kilts?

[Gridlock]

In an even fight the first one to put the other into a RT of over 5 seconds wins imo. Ive killed every proffession there is with my paladin. I dont think any class is the best.My favorite is when someone is trying to look all cool and powerful and gets pimped out. Like the person who tried to web me last week and got charged and a lance stuck threw there eye.

[El Burro]

Yes Implosion is over powered

[Janarth]

74 mana kill. I don't think any PC can live through it.

That said, for some reason open implosion didn't stun a harbinger :( Nasty bugger, interrupted my slaughter of hooded figures.

[Asha]

Originally posted by El Burro
Yes Implosion is over powered

Oh please.
Enough of that.
Downtweak anything sorcerous again and they're all probably gonna buy herbs, sit in TC and hand them out as a profession.

Anywhoo, hush before I SHATTER YOUR FACE!!

[ieva]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by ieva
Their songs are extremely strong, a level 26 bard can effect my someone that is twenty levels above them.

I find this unlikely.


Happened to me. My bardly friend constantly tries to lullaby me - but, it could just be because I am a warrior and I suck.

[Artha]

Chadj used to try lullabyeing me when we were 5-10 trains apart and only got any sort of effect rarely.

[ShadowKaster]

Originally posted by Xandalf
Well, in CvC terms... I'd have to say sorcerer, and no not just because Xandalf is one.


Only with sorcerers can a level 20 kill a capped anything. Implosion, both focused and unfocused, is the be all end all of CvC.

Now thats not to insinuate that Sorcerer's are all powerful. They are very suceptible to thorns, boils and ambush pushdowns.

edit: Pretty much all Manuevers.

[Edited on 8-14-2005 by Xandalf]

Sorry but a wizard with CM can wtfpwn any sorc their level. Back when you can roll up your own stats I rolled a 660 Wizard with the spare training points I added them to CM. Even if a sorc hit me with 720 I would either dodge or take next to no dmg than retort with one boil and watch the loser either die on crit or be disabled to the point I would just need one major shock to clean house.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm willing to test that theory. Next time I'm logged in for more than a minute I'll find a sorc that's around lvl 66 and have him/her implode me. I'm fully 1x in CM and I have a feeling I'll have my ass sucked through my eyes.

[Sean of the Thread]

I think so too. <shrugs>

[ShadowKaster]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I'm willing to test that theory. Next time I'm logged in for more than a minute I'll find a sorc that's around lvl 66 and have him/her implode me. I'm fully 1x in CM and I have a feeling I'll have my ass sucked through my eyes.

Lol Granted the last time I played was over 3 years ago, iirc as a 70+ wizard with points in CM since 15 I could 1v1 any sorc my lvl and pretty much blast them. Even better is when they have E-wave loaded and it doesn't knock me down.

[AnticorRifling]

Yeah that would be the dodge skill now. Which is something retarded like 20/20 per rank so you wonj't see many (if any) wizards with dodge.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by ShadowKaster

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I'm willing to test that theory. Next time I'm logged in for more than a minute I'll find a sorc that's around lvl 66 and have him/her implode me. I'm fully 1x in CM and I have a feeling I'll have my ass sucked through my eyes.

Lol Granted the last time I played was over 3 years ago, iirc as a 70+ wizard with points in CM since 15 I could 1v1 any sorc my lvl and pretty much blast them. Even better is when they have E-wave loaded and it doesn't knock me down.

XYELIN WILL PWN JOO n00b!!!!

[Artha]

Which is something retarded like 20/20 per rank so you wonj't see many (if any) wizards with dodge.
Blurs, however, add phantom dodge ranks. Pretty sure it makes a wizard equivalent to 1x in dodge.

[Asha]

Sorc nails everything.
Thanks to outside means. :)

[ShadowKaster]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Yeah that would be the dodge skill now. Which is something retarded like 20/20 per rank so you wonj't see many (if any) wizards with dodge.

Yeah because of being able to get higher starting rolls, I was able to get more training points I was like I researched everything I needed so I decided to put ranks into Combat Manuevers and its really helpful for pvp.

[Drew]

Originally posted by ShadowKaster

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Yeah that would be the dodge skill now. Which is something retarded like 20/20 per rank so you wonj't see many (if any) wizards with dodge.

Yeah because of being able to get higher starting rolls, I was able to get more training points I was like I researched everything I needed so I decided to put ranks into Combat Manuevers and its really helpful for pvp.

Actually, everyone gets 660 exactly now, but back then those would have been killer rolls, I was usually happy with 620s.

[ShadowKaster]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by ShadowKaster

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Yeah that would be the dodge skill now. Which is something retarded like 20/20 per rank so you wonj't see many (if any) wizards with dodge.

Yeah because of being able to get higher starting rolls, I was able to get more training points I was like I researched everything I needed so I decided to put ranks into Combat Manuevers and its really helpful for pvp.

Actually, everyone gets 660 exactly now, but back then those would have been killer rolls, I was usually happy with 620s.
Yeah best Roll I ever got was 671, But something about the name was too OOC so they forced me to reroll. Granted I was really pissed off

[AnticorRifling]

Normally they just make you rename....

[ShadowKaster]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Normally they just make you rename....
I wish, back then any player can tell you they let you keep the character, but they stick you in a room where you have to whisper something and it deletes your character and sends you back to roll up a new one.

[Drew]

If I had ever got a 671 you can be sure that I would have been totally positive he would not have gotten LCI'd.

[peam]

671 wasn't too difficult of a roll to get.

I usually just set my autoroller to keep any roll 665 or better. I landed a few 670+s

[ShadowKaster]

670+ I had 2 characters who got that roll. One was wasted on an empuff it took 32 hours to land that. The Char I was forced to reroll took somewhere like 3 days to land but there was constant disconnections.