looking for some help.

[zhelas]

Hello...

My Ranger has just turned 27 and I am looking for some advice on his training path. I was going to continue to 2x in Range, Hiding, and Perception for life. 1x in ambush, dodge, HP, Spirit Mana control, Spell, Physical Fitness, Survival, and first aid. Continue Swiming and climbing till 30 ranks. Pick up 9 or 10 ranks of MIU so he can use embedables with strength. Eventually he will begin to collect spare training points. Any recomendations on what to train in next or what to beef up? Should I start getting Combat Maneuvers (Multi-Fire or Shadow Mastery?) I see that some spells gain benefits from lore training..is this worth persuing? He currently has 27 ranks in armor so he can wear Brig without RT. I thought I read in one of these posts that for hiding and sniping, brig would be the best option. Is this true?

Any imput would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.
Zhelas

Level: 27

Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 89 (19) ... 89 (19)
Constitution (CON): 59 (4) ... 59 (4)
Dexterity (DEX): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Agility (AGL): 79 (29) ... 79 (29)
Discipline (DIS): 80 (0) ... 80 (0)
Aura (AUR): 79 (19) ... 79 (19)
Logic (LOG): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Intuition (INT): 89 (19) ... 89 (19)
Wisdom (WIS): 73 (11) ... 73 (11)
Influence (INF): 36 (3)

Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Ranged Weapons.....................| 156 56
Ambush.............................| 114 28
Physical Fitness...................| 114 28
Dodging............................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 25 5
Harness Power......................| 114 28
Spirit Mana Control................| 114 28
Survival...........................| 114 28
Stalking and Hiding................| 156 56
Perception.........................| 156 56
Climbing...........................| 102 24
Swimming...........................| 102 24
First Aid..........................| 114 28

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 27

Artisan: Master Fletcher

[Drew]

You've got a pretty broad base of things to train in now, points are probably still a ways off. Brig is a good armour for the present, later on you might fixskill into some chain.

[zhelas]

Originally posted by Drew
You've got a pretty broad base of things to train in now, points are probably still a ways off. Brig is a good armour for the present, later on you might fixskill into some chain.

Thanks Drew for the quick response. I have continued to view other posts and they seem to agree that increasing the armor would be a good thing. I know Chain is nice Hauberk is better. Even picking up some Combat Maneuvers seem to be necessary. I wonder do you think that my current training plan is too broad? For example I could drop MIU. Spirit Mana Control is nice but is it necessary? I suppose it works if I wish to imbue sticks and be a Mana Battery. Also, when training in certain skills is there a point where there are deminishing returns? For example. I do like skinning and the rewards that come with it. However the Survival skill. Is there a point that no matter how many points I continue to put into it I will not see any significant rewards? Physical Training, there seems to be a debate on this semidux thing.

Again thanks for your help.

Zhelas

[Drew]

That's the nice thing about rangers, it's pretty hard to screw one up. Granted you won't be as good a hunter as someone who only trains in combat skills, but you will be able to do a lot of other things. Unless you are planning to use 620 though, I would drop spirit mana control down to 24, which is 100% share.

Survival skill is needed for skinning, if you 1x survival and 1x first aid you'll be a darn good skinner, and a spectacular one if you use 604 and proper technique. It has a few ancilarry benefits as well, mostly in Icemule/Pinefar where it allows you to stay out longer without getting ice burn and start fires. It also lowers your RT in swamps and once you get a good number of ranks, lowers your chance of slipping in icy rooms. Also it's the main skill for foraging. Overall, I think that once you have 13 ranks in first aid survival is a better skill (my ranger has 13 FA skill and 1x surivival).

There is no debate on semi-dux, keep 1x-ing in PF and you'll get it. It's good stuff too, especially as you get older and it increases.


Hauberk you need 110 trains for, so you probably won't see that until much later, really for an archer, double chain is all that's needed since it covers the arms with chain armour. I think you need 50 or 60 armour ranks to wear that with minimum hinderance (I can't get in the game to check right now). As an archer protecting the arms is very important because a rank 2 arm wound really ruins your day. Although most archers seem to stay in brig (I know Odysia is in augmented chain, but she is capped) most of the other ranger archers I know stuck in brig. Either way you should be ok, but if you have the points and patience I would go for double chain.


As far as not training in combat manuevers, Warden in threatening to rewrite all the manuevers to take dodge into account and CM less. This is good for you, because it will improve your chance of dodging manuever attacks. If that really happens though is still up in the air (along with the changes planned to make hiding in armour heavier than brig harder). Anyhow, multi-fire isn't that great and there aren't many good manuevers for archers, so you aren't missing much there.

[Stunseed]

If any CM's, train in Shadow Mastery. Though many archers don't train in it at all.

Also, less than 1x PF for a Ranger makes baby Jesus cry.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Stunseed
Also, less than 1x PF for a Ranger makes baby Jesus cry.


> 1x PT, yes, i said pT, because its a T not an F ;), for anyone that isnt a pure makes the baby jesus cry

[Drew]

Just for you Stunseed:


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Combat Maneuvers...................| 105 25
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 188 88
Ambush.............................| 143 43
Physical Fitness...................| 122 31
Dodging............................| 10 2
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Harness Power......................| 143 43
Spirit Mana Control................| 5 1
Survival...........................| 124 32
Stalking and Hiding................| 186 86
Perception.........................| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 54 11
First Aid..........................| 62 13

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 17

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 40

[Stunseed]

< Just for you Stunseed >

Pfft.

| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 170 70
Shield Use.........................| 160 60
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60
Edged Weapons......................| 222 122
Ambush.............................| 165 65
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 82 18
Physical Fitness...................| 173 73
Dodging............................| 160 60
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 160 60
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 160 60
Perception.........................| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 40

The champ is here.

[zhelas]

Thanks for the feed back. He is about to become 28 and I plan on making some changes soon. Dropping that SMC down to 24 makes sense to me. Start putting some points into armor. Dodge is really helpful I might put extra points into dodge but since i wish to snipe shadow mastery sounds interesting. Skinning is awesome one can make alot of silvers skinning. As for PT, I do think that the semi dux is worth it.

Thanks for your help.

Zhelas

[Drew]

Originally posted by zhelas
Dodge is really helpful I might put extra points into dodge but since i wish to snipe shadow mastery sounds interesting.


Don't go more than 1x dodge, if you have extra points use it for something else, the returns are too little (you get a dodge rank for every ranger spell you pick up). If you want shadow mastery you are going to need about 45ish ranks in CM to pick it up, it's really expensive. You have to decide if 1 sec less RT in hiding is worth it to you.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Just for you Stunseed >

Pfft.


How much MOC are you going for? 30?


If I were you, I'd drop all the MOC to 5 ranks, drop ambush down to 60, skip spells for about 5-10 levels and get up to 2x in hiding. You'd basically have the same ol' Stunseed but he could ambush real well too (without having to waste mana on 608).

[zhelas]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by zhelas
Dodge is really helpful I might put extra points into dodge but since i wish to snipe shadow mastery sounds interesting.


Don't go more than 1x dodge, if you have extra points use it for something else, the returns are too little (you get a dodge rank for every ranger spell you pick up). If you want shadow mastery you are going to need about 45ish ranks in CM to pick it up, it's really expensive. You have to decide if 1 sec less RT in hiding is worth it to you.

Great! The fog is lifting.

Again many thanks.

[Stunseed]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Just for you Stunseed >

Pfft.


How much MOC are you going for? 30?


If I were you, I'd drop all the MOC to 5 ranks, drop ambush down to 60, skip spells for about 5-10 levels and get up to 2x in hiding. You'd basically have the same ol' Stunseed but he could ambush real well too (without having to waste mana on 608).

I dropped to 1x in hiding and beginning to bump the Ambush higher. My goal in MoC is 35 ranks, for FoF reasons. If I didn't use 608, I'd be a Spikesorc, and that would be sad. Right now, my goal is 1.5x in PF and Ambush, with a total of 80 spells ( 640/140 ) by cap. Not cookie cutter by any means, but it's been a hell of a ride. :smilegrin:

[Drew]

Oh yeah, I looked it up, you need 50 ranks in armour training for double chain. Unless you have some very nice crit padded brigandine double-chain will always be better. If you want to keep training in armour you need 70 ranks for augmented chain (what my character is going for, along with Stunseed and others. Be warned that there is very little in the way of nice armour in the class) and 110 ranks for chain hauberk. Anything past that is inadvisable if you want to cast spells in combat.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Stunseed
I dropped to 1x in hiding and beginning to bump the Ambush higher. My goal in MoC is 35 ranks, for FoF reasons. If I didn't use 608, I'd be a Spikesorc, and that would be sad. Right now, my goal is 1.5x in PF and Ambush, with a total of 80 spells ( 640/140 ) by cap. Not cookie cutter by any means, but it's been a hell of a ride. :smilegrin:


This is Chiv at Stunseed's current level


At level 60: Ranks
Armor Use 70
Two-Handed Weapons 122
Combat Maneuvers 45
Ambush 61
Physical Fitness 61
Dodging 45
Climbing 20
Swimming 11
Stalking and Hiding 122
Perception 107
First Aid 14
Survival 50
Magic Item Use 7
Harness Power 60
Spirit Mana Control 1
Minor Spirit 20
Ranger 40


As you can see his plan really normalizes over the next few levels. No more spells, 43 extra armour ranks, PF comes up to 1x, dodge and CM to .75x. And perception is on it's way up to 2x, almost there by that point. That's basically the plan for cap except picking up more climb and swim at level 66 for the rift and then a few other things, a little MIU, some mana share and bringing survival up to 1x.

I really wish I could fit in the points for 2x ambush, misses would be very rare with 2x perception and ambush.

[Drew]

Do you have what Stunseed's training will be at cap? I'm interested in your final vision.

[Stunseed]

Let's try this.

Armor Use 70
Shield Use 100
Edged Weapons 200
Combat Maneuvers 100
Ambush 150
Multi-Opponent Combat 35
Physical Fitness 150
Dodging 100
Climbing 30
Swimming 30
Stalking and Hiding 100
Perception 100
Magic Item Use 25
Arcane Symbols 25
Harness Power 100
Spirit Mana Control 24
Minor Spirit 40
Ranger 40

At 100, your CMAN are as follows

Disarm 5
Sidebyside 5
Cmovement 2
Feint -- Will grow as I get TP's.

[Stunseed]

Also, my redux would be groin-grabbingly good, knowing how good it is now, and I'm not even 60 trains.

[Drew]

Here's a real ranger plan for you:


At level 100:
Armor Use 70
Two-Handed Weapons 202
Combat Maneuvers 75
Ambush 101
Physical Fitness 101
Dodging 75
Climbing 40
Swimming 40
Stalking and Hiding 202
Perception 204
First Aid 50
Survival 90
Arcane Symbols 25
Magic Item Use 25
Harness Power 100
Spirit Mana Control 24
Minor Spirit 20
Ranger 70

[Stunseed]

When we are both capped, we will see who comes out better.

[Drew]

Alright, see ya in 2012. Haha but you know we are both never going to be able to agree anyway because we like busting each others chops.

[Stunseed]

It's funny because it is true.

Besides, we both know Stun would whip Chiv's ass.

[Drew]

Bring him up to Icemule and watch someone 20 levels his junior humble him :smilegrin: