State of Education in the US

[Skirmisher]

Heck, I kinda gotta go with skirm on this one. I was recently dating a girl who didn't even know where Chicago... Or Illinois was on a map...

Hijacked Dave's quote to a new thread as i didnt want to go farther astray in the Hiroshima thread.

The state of teaching regarding Geography is even worse than history.

Polls have shown an embarassing percentage of american youth unable to locate thier own city,state and worst of all not even their own country on world maps.

We do not push anywhere near enough of basic information on our children and then require they be able to show true retention and it shows in the studies.

[StrayRogue]

I'm sure knowing the Christian creationism "facts" will help them more than basic geographical knowledge will. HAVE FAIFTH IN KING BUSH.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Heck, I kinda gotta go with skirm on this one. I was recently dating a girl who didn't even know where Chicago... Or Illinois was on a map...

Hijacked Dave's quote to a new thread as i didnt want to go farther astray in the Hiroshima thread.

The state of teaching regarding Geography is even worse than history.

Polls have shown an embarassing percentage of american youth unable to locate thier own city,state and worst of all not even their own country on world maps.

We do not push anywhere near enough of basic information on our children and then require they be able to show true retention and it shows in the studies.



I'm not that bad, but I will admitt I could not place where every state is in the U.S.

I could not name all the capitals. These were things my grandparents and parents were taught. It isn't because I didn't pay attention. We were never tested, never taught.

[Kitsun]

I say we put the blame on all those warning labels on everything.

The dumbass kid that chews on lead paint chips or stuffs his head into a plastic bag probably wouldn't be making nature's cut. But since we ensured his survival, he's proving just how good he is at other aspects in life.

[Alfster]

I'll admit that I don't know the capital of every state, but that's not because I wasn't taught it.

It's because I slept through all my geography classes as they are by far, the most boring classes I've ever taken.

[Apathy]

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4131

[Skirmisher]

Be good now Stray.

This really isn't about political agendas but a system that I feel demands far too little of it's students and because of that is failing them.

[Artha]

I had a fifth grade geography class. 1999, I think it was. I can place every state and most of the capitals, and most big/important countries (ie: not Siera Leone) on maps too.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm sure knowing the Christian creationism "facts" will help them more than basic geographical knowledge will. HAVE FAIFTH IN KING BUSH.


Actually, we learned about evolution. Something I believe in, I remember half the class fighting with the other. One stating scientific facts, one half reciting passages from the bible to the point where the teacher assigned us all a 5 page lab paper on testing acid levels because we wouldn't shut up or be civil towards each other.

[StrayRogue]

I agree Skirm. However I don't think Captain America should be pushing for pointless classes on some crackpot theory when the other more important classes themselves are demanding attention.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Alfster
I'll admit that I don't know the capital of every state, but that's not because I wasn't taught it.

It's because I slept through all my geography classes as they are by far, the most boring classes I've ever taken.


See, I NEVER took a class that was about United states geography. I don't think we even were offered one. And yet, World geo was required so I can name and place all the countries in Africa and Europe.

Oh and a Pacific North West required class so I can name all the rivers and indian tribes around here.

[Snapp]

I didn't have any real geography teaching until I was in college. It was very briefly touched upon in elementary school. Pretty sad really.

[Alfster]

I took the same one twice if that helps any

[Skirmisher]

I see your link Apathy and retort with

Why U.S. students flunk geography <--- Yeah i knoiw another exciting link (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29763)


Why U.S. students flunk geography
Posted: November 23, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Samuel Blumenfeld
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

When I was a kid I loved geography. I knew the capitals of all the countries. I collected maps and dreamt about faraway places. I knew the hexagonal shape of France, the Italian boot, the shape of Australia. The world was a fascinating place.

We didn't have TV or the Internet. All we had were newspapers, magazines, school atlases, maps from gas stations. We also had movies. In those days movies were about great heroes, historical events, adventure and exploration. "Oil for the Lamps of China," "The Good Earth," "Flying Down to Rio," "Mutiny on the Bounty" and other entertaining films transported us to far off countries and back into history.

Today's American students have television, the Internet, videos, travel books, magazines, atlases, CD roms, and yet they seem to have a kind of cognitive block against learning geographic facts. It's as if their minds are closed to that sort of information. Whereas we found great pleasure in learning geography, today's youths find it a dull chore.

A recent National Geographic survey found that only one in seven Americans aged between 18 and 24 could find Iraq or Iran on a map. While 58 percent knew about Afghanistan, only 17 percent could find it on a world map.

When asked to find 10 specific states on a map of the U.S., 89 percent could locate California and Texas, but only 51 percent could find New York. On a world map, Americans could only find seven of 16 countries in the quiz. Eleven percent couldn't even find the U.S. on the map, and 29 percent couldn't find the Pacific Ocean.

The cause of this kind of ignorance can only be attributed to the public schools where geography has been relegated to a minor corner in the greater category of social studies. When I was in school in the 1930s and '40s, geography was a full-fledged subject, studied systematically, continent by continent, country by country, with roll-down maps above the blackboard.

Back in 1970, when I was a substitute teacher in a middle school, I decided to teach the class about Southern Africa. There was a good roll-down map of the continent and I used a pointer and spoke about each country in the region – South Africa, Southwest Africa, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Angola – and showed their relationships and political problems. The class was absolutely mesmerized.

I myself was quite pleasantly surprised by the class's total attention. I attributed their interest to the fact that I was very much interested in what was going on in Southern Africa during the cold war, and thus my interest stimulated their interest. Apparently, their regular teacher had no such interest and thus was unable to convey any enthusiasm for the subject.

I imagine that one of the reasons why American students have acquired this cognitive block to geography is because their teachers have it. When geography is scrambled in the mishmash of social studies, it is no longer a coherent subject of study. It has become too fragmented to be interesting or even comprehensible.

Today, when a country is studied in the context of social studies, the emphasis is on simple national customs and characteristics. Thus, when you study Greece you will learn about shish-kebab and Greek folk dances. Spain is the land of bullfights and paella. Mexico is the land of the Aztecs, sombreros, and tortillas. Egypt is the land of mummies. What you get is geography-lite.

Is geography important enough to be studied seriously as a separate subject? I believe it is. We live in a geopolitical world where we are subject to attack from many quarters. It's hard to believe that the people who went to work in the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001, would have their lives snuffed out by cave-dwelling terrorists living in a remote, backward country some 10,000 miles away. The plan to kill them was hatched by Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan known to some people in our government but virtually unknown to the American people.

We wonder how many FBI agents knew anything about Afghanistan, since during the Clinton administration their attention was on American "right-wing extremists." And even now, with so much attention focussed on that remote Asian country, only 17 percent of American students could find it on a map. Yet, American servicemen are presently fighting there.

Until the schools get back to studying geography as a subject worthy of serious attention, we shall continue to be a culturally backward country, self-blinded by the politically correct agenda of our progressive educators.

[HarmNone]

Although I wasn't educated in American schools, as I see it the problem in American schools doesn't lie with one area of teaching. It's endemic to the entire system. Parents, in many cases, have abdicated responsibility for their "little darlings". Teachers have little recourse because the parents won't cooperate in disciplining their children. Frustrated, some teachers do their jobs at with a minimum of effort, and a minimum of care as to the outcome for the children.

Additionally, you cannot teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Parents have a responsibility, up front, to make it clear why learning is important and how it can be fun. Many parents never learned that themselves.

[Back]

The American public school system is nothing more than a turnstile of less than mediocrity. That is not to say that there are not those who benefit and excel before going on to college, but I’m positive you don’t even need one ounce (28.47 grams for the rest of the world) of a brain to get a high school diploma. I mean Christ, I’m living proof.

[Skirmisher]

HarmNone, I agree entirely with your post.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I agree Skirm. However I don't think Captain America should be pushing for pointless classes on some crackpot theory when the other more important classes themselves are demanding attention.
Evolution can be made to look just as crackpot as creation.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
HarmNone, I agree entirely with your post.
me to parents letting there kids run amuck

[Edaarin]

In my 10th grade Humanities class, we had monthly tests on different continents...each month we'd have to be able to label every country, capital, and their locations. For North America, we had to know every state/capital location as well.

I remember dreading the final, because one of the 6 parts of that final was a worldwide geography test. I got something like a 98 on that part...I couldn't remember what the capital of Azerbaijin was.

Now, 5 years later, I've probably forgotten about 70% of it all. Not really all that useful in my opinion; if you need to know where a place is you can always pull out an atlas.

[Edaarin]

HarmNone hit the nail on the head. There's no great secret behind the success of Asian students in the United States. There's no gene that forces us into becoming engineers, violinists, or doctors, but a drive instilled by our parents.

There was an article in today's Washington Post magazine on my high school alma mater bemoaning the lack of diversity, to the extent that they radically changed the application process in order to try and get more 'underrepresented minorities.' Lots of talk about free Saturday sessions (not dissimilar to a Princeton Review type course) to help prepare for the entrance exam. Completely unnecessary.

Behind most 'successful' students are most likely parents who took an interest in their children's education.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm sure knowing the Christian creationism "facts" will help them more than basic geographical knowledge will. HAVE FAIFTH IN KING BUSH.

This is about American education... I don't know how much experience you have with that.

Most of the people we're talking about who cannot name these simple facts have been out of school before Bush got in office.

Pretty good hijack though, congrats.

On topic - The education system seems fine to me. People who want to learn do fine, the people who don't want to take the time to get an education won't get one no matter how the system is designed.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Hulkein]

[StrayRogue]

Refer to my second post dumbass. The point is lobbying to have the Christian creationism theory taught in school should be way down on the list of things to do when it comes to improving public schooling.

[Edaarin]

I really think the biggest problem is spending in all the wrong places. Take Washington DC. They spend more per child than any other region in the country, and performance is absolutely abysmal.

No Child Left Behind is nothing but a waste of money.

[Hulkein]

I quoted your first post before I read the second one, pee-wee.

Your second post is just pointless rhetoric, anyway. It'd have no effect on anything else curriculum wise if creationism is talked about for ten minutes.

You act as if the people who create the curriculum for the school year are frozen in a room arguing over creationism, paralyzing the learning process.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Hulkein]

[Edaarin]

In StrayRogue's defense, I'd be willing to bet that it is occupying the minds of a lot of educators in Kansas right now.

Not to the point of having a seriously adverse effect on learning yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a 21st century Scopes trial with the way things are going...

[StrayRogue]

No. But I think Bush urging that it be taught doesn't help matters. I'm sure you'd love your kids to know it though, I mean who gives a fuck if they can't find France on a map as long as they know who Adam and Eve were. Hell, the chances are they won't even leave the country ever anyway.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Refer to my second post dumbass. The point is lobbying to have the Christian creationism theory taught in school should be way down on the list of things to do when it comes to improving public schooling.
I agree along with the need to study Islam in school

[Artha]

I think the biggest problem is kids that don't want to learn being grouped with kids that do. They slow everything down and create a drag on the whole class.

[StrayRogue]

As I've said before, if Christian creationalism is going to be taught as an alternative to scientific theory then ALL religious creationism ideas should be taught. We do so over here, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the Americans.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
No. But I think Bush urging that it be taught doesn't help matters. I'm sure you'd love your kids to know it though, I mean who gives a fuck if they can't find France on a map as long as they know who Adam and Eve were. Hell, the chances are they won't even leave the country ever anyway.

Even though I think it's pretty obvious that a ten minute session on what creationists believe wouldn't prevent anyone from finding France and whatever other country on the map, I'll tell you that I believe in evolution, so no, I wouldn't be joyed to know they were teaching creationism in school. That being said, I wouldn't object, either.

I'll be making sure my kids work and get a good education as opposed to blaming the system or the president for my kids shortcomings in school.

Oh, and I've been to both France and Italy with my family. I hope to be able to show my kids the same things I saw, so they better know where France is.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Hulkein]

I blame it on the teachers unions. When teachers are not held accountable for the horrid jobs they do they have no reason to strive to be excellent teachers. If you go into work and have nothing to compete for IE your job, most people really are not going to put forth all their effort. I know there are those that are exceptions to the rule, but those are the few teachers you remember, the ones that mattered and made a difference.

Political correctness plays a part too. The happy joy feeling that is currently going on in our school system is ridiculous. If you fail a class, if you fail a test, then you fail, go back a year in school and do it over again. There should be no free passes, if the kid is unable to learn it he shouldn't be pushed to the next class.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As I've said before, if Christian creationalism is going to be taught as an alternative to scientific theory then ALL religious creationism ideas should be taught. We do so over here, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the Americans.

Strayrogue, we spent about two days on evolution in my school, in one class. There were 182 other days of classes, and 7 other peroids.
So all in all we spent 2 hours out of 1274 hours or so on evolution. ITS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL,

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Dave]

[Ilvane]

Oh, please. They are held more accountable now than ever.

This whole "No Child Left Behind" act is a big bust and Bush knows it. His own House and Senate didn't give enough money to fund what he wanted to do..

I know here our Republican governor seems to think standardized testing is the way to go..so the teachers have to go on a set plan to make sure the kids pass the test. Never mind actually teaching to the class they have..just get them to get better test numbers.

I know a lot of people that can't even form a sentence apply to work with us, and the doctors just look at the applications and laugh. When a kid out of high school can't form a sentence, or a college graduate can't articulate why they want to work for a company, that's a sad case of affairs.

-A

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As I've said before, if Christian creationalism is going to be taught as an alternative to scientific theory then ALL religious creationism ideas should be taught. We do so over here, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the Americans.
I've got no problem with that.

Originally posted by Ilvane
Oh, please. They are held more accountable now than ever.


Once a teacher gets tenure its nearly impossible to fire them, so no they are not held accountable.

As for the no child left behind, how did that affect kids you know ability to learn?

Pulling up the now cliche argument, when it really did not affect many people, let alone anyone over the age of 18 at the time it was passed, is rather stale.

[Back]

Originally posted by Dave
I blame it on the teachers unions. When teachers are not held accountable for the horrid jobs they do they have no reason to strive to be excellent teachers. If you go into work and have nothing to compete for IE your job, most people really are not going to put forth all their effort. I know there are those that are exceptions to the rule, but those are the few teachers you remember, the ones that mattered and made a difference.

Political correctness plays a part too. The happy joy feeling that is currently going on in our school system is ridiculous. If you fail a class, if you fail a test, then you fail, go back a year in school and do it over again. There should be no free passes, if the kid is unable to learn it he shouldn't be pushed to the next class.

You know, I’ve read some crazy shit on these boards, and I know you have a tendency to play devils-advocate... but that has to be one of the absolutely most twisted stupid bullshit I’ve read in a long time.

Make sure to apply for a job at the White House when you get back.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Oh, please. They are held more accountable now than ever.
-A
Are you on crack?

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Dave
I blame it on the teachers unions. When teachers are not held accountable for the horrid jobs they do they have no reason to strive to be excellent teachers. If you go into work and have nothing to compete for IE your job, most people really are not going to put forth all their effort. I know there are those that are exceptions to the rule, but those are the few teachers you remember, the ones that mattered and made a difference.

Political correctness plays a part too. The happy joy feeling that is currently going on in our school system is ridiculous. If you fail a class, if you fail a test, then you fail, go back a year in school and do it over again. There should be no free passes, if the kid is unable to learn it he shouldn't be pushed to the next class.

You know, I’ve read some crazy shit on these boards, and I know you have a tendency to play devils-advocate... but that has to be one of the absolutely most twisted stupid bullshit I’ve read in a long time.

Make sure to apply for a job at the White House when you get back.

Competition makes for the best. If people compete for a job and are not given handouts due to being a female, male, white, black, whatever, they will have the best person in that job.
There are VERY few teachers that I would consider good that I had as I went though school. Some may have cared, but were unable to teach well. Boring, unexciting, monotone, teachers like that are not going to get a student to care about what they are saying, all they are going to do is put them to sleep. Yet a young 25 year old History teacher comes in, takes a class and makes it fun and exciting gets everyone involved, yet is fired at the end of his first year because he didn't cow-tow to the tenured people in the union is the type of crap I am talking about.

Mr. Henderson was that guy, and that's one of the places where my deep dislike for the teachers unions were formed.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As I've said before, if Christian creationalism is going to be taught as an alternative to scientific theory then ALL religious creationism ideas should be taught. We do so over here, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt the Americans.
I dont think they should "teach" either one i think thats a thing parents should teach there kids and let them deside for themselves.

[Edaarin]

No Child Left Behind didn't accomplish what it set out to. It was money badly spent that could have been spent on hiring more qualified teachers one at a time, or augmenting salaries so low some teachers can't afford to live in the same neighborhood they teach in.

I have faith in America's teachers. I was lucky enough to have had dedicated men and women spend hours of their own personal time going over lesson plans and grading homework and go that extra step to help out their students. I don't have faith in teacher's unions that take hundreds of dollars in fees every year, especially not when there are people like the former president of the DC teacher's union.

[Terminator X]

I think it would be a lot more important to educate the youth on why McDonald's for each meal of the day, including brunch, is most certainly not a healthy living choice.

Eduaction should not be selective, but if it is, say, because of such a major problem as big businesses losing a few bucks, you would at least think that certain republican party members would want to at least educate their own. I think something like 50% of Texas' population is obese :shrug:

do you think that is because %50 of texas population thinks that McDonalds does not make you fat?
Come on, its because people are dumb, lazy and dont take care of themselves.

[Skirmisher]

I tend to not blame teachers as I have had too many good ones myself, but rather the curriculum and the parents for not setting the level of expectation at a high enough mark.

I think that teachers should in fact be paid more and have smaller class sizes. I think we should do away with multuple guess tests except in very defined areas.

American schools can and do turn out some wonderfully eductaed minds, but the lowest common denominator is far too low and too many are allowed to graduate having in reality learned very little.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
dumb

Yeah, I equate being dumb, as you so elloquently described, to stupidity.

In cases such as these, in order to ameliorate gaping usually coincided with insulting at said dumb parties, an attempt is made to educate :)

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by Terminator X
I think it would be a lot more important to educate the youth on why McDonald's for each meal of the day, including brunch, is most certainly not a healthy living choice.

Eduaction should not be selective, but if it is, say, because of such a major problem as big businesses losing a few bucks, you would at least think that certain republican party members would want to at least educate their own. I think something like 50% of Texas' population is obese :shrug:
Where the hell did you get this info?

[Edaarin]

Houston's got the largest waistlines in the country, but that's only one city. A 50% obesity rate seems a tad excessive even for Houston.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
do you think that is because %50 of texas population thinks that McDonalds does not make you fat?
Come on, its because people are dumb, lazy and dont take care of themselves.

And yeah, I'm sure that inner-city Texans, hillbillies living in the boondocks, whatever, may have the notion that it's not a healthy living standard, but I'd be damned if it's actually taught in local school systems.

I am sure that you are taught a lot of different skills in the reserves other than how to fire a gun, Dave. It just is not viable to teach mathematics first thing in the morning to the final school bell.

At young ages, especially, kids have an incredible capacity to learn so many different things. To really explore the broad range of possibile skills that people can be taught at such a young age is something our federal government, I feel, should be very much looking into.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Gridlock

Originally posted by Terminator X
I think it would be a lot more important to educate the youth on why McDonald's for each meal of the day, including brunch, is most certainly not a healthy living choice.

Eduaction should not be selective, but if it is, say, because of such a major problem as big businesses losing a few bucks, you would at least think that certain republican party members would want to at least educate their own. I think something like 50% of Texas' population is obese :shrug:
Where the hell did you get this info?

Probably by actually having been in Austin and Houston and having said information said to me by said lardbuckets?

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Dave
do you think that is because %50 of texas population thinks that McDonalds does not make you fat?
Come on, its because people are dumb, lazy and dont take care of themselves.

And yeah, I'm sure that inner-city Texans, hillbillies living in the boondocks, whatever, may have the notion that it's not a healthy living standard, but I'd be damned if it's actually taught in local school systems.
Well it must have been a while since you were in school. As far as I know HEALTH class is required for state school system to graduate highschool. I know it was in mine.


I am sure that you are taught a lot of different skills in the reserves other than how to fire a gun, Dave.
Im active army, not a weekend warrior like Arkans. :)

[Terminator X]

^

High school.

I've seen obese four year olds. It's bad.

Im sure that was because they didnt learn it in preschool.

Blame parents who know better. They and the people who eat fast food are the only ones at fault.
You never hear McDonalds saying... "Eat our Big Mac! Its healthy and has no fat!"

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Terminator X
I think it would be a lot more important to educate the youth on why McDonald's for each meal of the day, including brunch, is most certainly not a healthy living choice.


I disagree. It's the parents' place to teach stuff like this, and HN was absolutely right about them simply abdicating all responsibility. Part of the reason the focus on true academics is lost is because they schools are clogged up with shit like "life skills" and "conflict resolution" classes. Math and English, dammit!

-K

:yeahthat: :clap:

:cough: main person in writing the bill senator kennedy :cough:

"It stands as one of Bush’s few genuinely bipartisan domestic-policy achievements, clearing the House by a 381 to 41 margin with more Democratic than Republican votes. Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) partnered with the White House to steer it through the Senate."

But it is all President Bush's fault.


Warriorbird where did the post go?

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Dave]

[Terminator X]

I agree that something like conflict resolution can, in fact, bounder upon hippy-horseshit.

I am, however, a firm believer in the idea that garbage breeds more garbage. Like I've said in my other posts in this thread, really little kids have an incredible capacity to learn. Once you get to teaching any kind of life skill at a high-school level, the kids have already made up their minds about many of the habits that they engage in on a daily basis. I personally feel that if you don't want to have a society in which parents neglect to teach their kids these issues of importance, it would be extremely helpful for the school system to compensate for this gray area.

Honestly, having your kids become avid intellects in quantum mechanics will not have a lot of practical application if they end up having heart attacks at the age 38.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
Im sure that was because they didnt learn it in preschool.

Blame parents who know better. They and the people who eat fast food are the only ones at fault.
You never hear McDonalds saying... "Eat our Big Mac! Its healthy and has no fat!"

Last time I heard, it was "two all beef patties," not "two kerosene-soaked carcinogen circles."

I understand that multi-billionaires need to sell their product, but there still is a disgusting lack of public awareness, which could be helped out by teaching it very early on in our school systems. Refer to my first post in this thread, Dave.

Terminatorx, you've got to be kidding me. I would venture to say that EVERYONE who has gone past the third grade (to include the rednecks your talking about) knows that McDonalds is unhealthy. People eat it anyways because it is convenient and that convenience outweighs the negative effect in their minds.

[Warriorbird]

Honestly? I think curriculums need modernizing and focusing. There needs to be less regurgitation and more critical thinking/practical skills.

And Dave, I was referring to the Standards of Learning, but that's Off Topic in this thread.

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Honestly? I think curriculums need modernizing and focusing. There needs to be less regurgitation and more critical thinking/practical skills.

Yes, I agree 100%.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
Terminatorx, you've got to be kidding me. I would venture to say that EVERYONE who has gone past the third grade (to include the rednecks your talking about) knows that McDonalds is unhealthy. People eat it anyways because it is convenient and that convenience outweighs the negative effect in their minds.

I would agree with you if a good deal of people who were not diabetic, or hypoglycemic, or whatever, had BMI's under the obesity scale. Since this is not the case, it remains a problem. You can either call them fat and lazy, or you can actually call up your local chancellor's office and do something proactive about it.

That's about all that I have to say on the matter.

[Gridlock]

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Gridlock

Originally posted by Terminator X
I think it would be a lot more important to educate the youth on why McDonald's for each meal of the day, including brunch, is most certainly not a healthy living choice.

Eduaction should not be selective, but if it is, say, because of such a major problem as big businesses losing a few bucks, you would at least think that certain republican party members would want to at least educate their own. I think something like 50% of Texas' population is obese :shrug:
Where the hell did you get this info?

Probably by actually having been in Austin and Houston and having said information said to me by said lardbuckets?
Well i actualy live in Texas there are no more fat people here then in any other part of the U.S.

[SpunGirl]

I also think there need to be less drive for the idea that EVERYONE needs to go to college. On the practical education trend, I would like to see more strong vocational programs. So many kids seem to think it's a choice between being a doctor or working at Burger King, and it's not.

But the more slack the schools take up for the parents, the more they'll relax and let it happen. This needs to stop. It is not the responsibility of the school system to get your child ready for LIFE. It IS their responsibility to teach them how to do things like read and write. I don't want my child missing out on reading instruction because little Timmy is having a tantrum in the corner and the teacher is trying to reason with him like an adult. Send that little fucker to the office and get on with the learning.

-K


[Edited on 8-7-2005 by SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Dave
Terminatorx, you've got to be kidding me. I would venture to say that EVERYONE who has gone past the third grade (to include the rednecks your talking about) knows that McDonalds is unhealthy. People eat it anyways because it is convenient and that convenience outweighs the negative effect in their minds.

I would agree with you if a good deal of people who were not diabetic, or hypoglycemic, or whatever, had BMI's under the obesity scale. Since this is not the case, it remains a problem. You can either call them fat and lazy, or you can actually call up your local chancellor's office and do something proactive about it.

That's about all that I have to say on the matter.

And the doctor who diagnosed them with this problem didn't tell them to eat healthy and give them pamphlets?
Quit trying to pass the blame. It is their fault and theirs alone.

[Latrinsorm]

I had a much higher opinion of the American schooling system before Souzy's post in the Hiroshima thread. :(

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Dave
Terminatorx, you've got to be kidding me. I would venture to say that EVERYONE who has gone past the third grade (to include the rednecks your talking about) knows that McDonalds is unhealthy. People eat it anyways because it is convenient and that convenience outweighs the negative effect in their minds.

I would agree with you if a good deal of people who were not diabetic, or hypoglycemic, or whatever, had BMI's under the obesity scale. Since this is not the case, it remains a problem. You can either call them fat and lazy, or you can actually call up your local chancellor's office and do something proactive about it.

That's about all that I have to say on the matter.

And the doctor who diagnosed them with this problem didn't tell them to eat healthy and give them pamphlets?
Quit trying to pass the blame. It is their fault and theirs alone.

I don't blame a kid in elementary school for not never being taught these things. I do, however, blame the elementary school and the parents, though.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[SpunGirl]

Why is it the school's responsibility? If the kid has a big grab of potato chips and other fatty crap in his lunch every day, is the school supposed to take it away from him?

Even if they DO teach the kid that eating at Mickey D's every day is bad for you, what's the 10 year old supposed to do when the parents decide that's what's for dinner? Go on a hunger strike?

-K

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Dave
Terminatorx, you've got to be kidding me. I would venture to say that EVERYONE who has gone past the third grade (to include the rednecks your talking about) knows that McDonalds is unhealthy. People eat it anyways because it is convenient and that convenience outweighs the negative effect in their minds.

I would agree with you if a good deal of people who were not diabetic, or hypoglycemic, or whatever, had BMI's under the obesity scale. Since this is not the case, it remains a problem. You can either call them fat and lazy, or you can actually call up your local chancellor's office and do something proactive about it.

That's about all that I have to say on the matter.

And the doctor who diagnosed them with this problem didn't tell them to eat healthy and give them pamphlets?
Quit trying to pass the blame. It is their fault and theirs alone.

This may sound unheard of, Dave, but I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Anyway, if a doctor does something about this, I think it's really great.

I've never been anything more than a little bit overweight and have never seen a "get skinny" pamphlet handed out by my local physician, or a pediatrician.

I will, however, say that just seeing an outdated food pyramid poster on the wall of a doctor's office or elementary school isn't going to do anything, at all, to discourage kids from doing these kinds of things.

And since, unfortunately, there are just a *few* parents who neglect to teach their kids this kind of information, I would venture then say that it is within our government's most keen interests to educate, especially at the ages when kids are most vulnerable to start picking up extremely unhealthy eating habits.

I mean honestly, since both ends of the political spectrum are too devious to actually divest from fast-food franchises, they at least could find some kind of creative way to prevent all of these kids from growing up and actually becoming a million-dollar a week hospital patient.

Does that help to better make some kind of sense?

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Why is it the school's responsibility? If the kid has a big grab of potato chips and other fatty crap in his lunch every day, is the school supposed to take it away from him?

Even if they DO teach the kid that eating at Mickey D's every day is bad for you, what's the 10 year old supposed to do when the parents decide that's what's for dinner? Go on a hunger strike?

-K

I agree that for now, it sucks. Sure.

It's not fun to know that all around the United States, this kind of negligence is, in fact, occurring.

This generation is proverbially fucked with respect to a lack of education by parents and the school system to actually go about being proactive in order to better better remedy it.

My whole point is that whereas it is pretty unlikely that you are going to be able to change how a parent teaches their kids how to make healthy life-style choices, especially from real early on, it definately is possible to change how a school system teaches the kids.


[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

Its a conspiracy to make the world fat.

THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME IS THE FATASS.
The only person who made them fat is themselves. They put the food in their mouth. Aside from a REAL medical condition, NOBODY has an excuse, lack of willpower isn't one.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. You are the type of person combined with the teachers unions that has made the education system in America what it is today. Your pass the blame mentality is the downfall of our country. People need to grow a set of balls and admit its their own damn fault sometimes, not everybody else.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
Its a conspiracy to make the world fat.

THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME IS THE FATASS.
The only person who made them fat is themselves. They put the food in their mouth. Aside from a REAL medical condition, NOBODY has an excuse, lack of willpower isn't one.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. You are the type of person combined with the teachers unions that has made the education system in America what it is today. Your pass the blame mentality is the downfall of our country. People need to grow a set of balls and admit its their own damn fault sometimes, not everybody else.

You're talking in yous and yours. Do I even know you?

Originally posted by Terminator X

Originally posted by Dave
Its a conspiracy to make the world fat.

THE ONLY PERSON TO BLAME IS THE FATASS.
The only person who made them fat is themselves. They put the food in their mouth. Aside from a REAL medical condition, NOBODY has an excuse, lack of willpower isn't one.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. You are the type of person combined with the teachers unions that has made the education system in America what it is today. Your pass the blame mentality is the downfall of our country. People need to grow a set of balls and admit its their own damn fault sometimes, not everybody else.

You're talking in yous and yours. Do I even know you?

Nope but I am going off the stand YOU are taking.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Terminator X
it definately is possible to change how a school system teaches the kids.



That's very idealistic of you, but you didn't answer the question. The school can TEACH all they want to, and unless the parents change what they DO with regards to the food their child consumes, it won't make a damn bit of difference.

-K

[Terminator X]

If I'm teaching a class room of inner-city kids, I'm going to make sure that because of the fact that there are parents who don't teach their children a sense of insight into these types of right-and-wrongs, it should hypothetically make me, the teacher, at least try to reinforce some kind of reciprocative ideology to them, a bit each day, in sixth-period health class, or whatever.

I'm not saying that anything can be done to prevent parents from engaging in something positive to help their original lack of action, in fact I'm pretty sure in at least two of my previous posts I talked about how I didn't think that was very realistic.

In elementary level schooling, kids are already spending at least fifty percent of their active day not being taught things by their parent, parents, caretakers, guardians, etcetera.

Look, I'll put it like this...

Just because parents are lazy doesn't mean their kids have to be lazy. There are millions and millions of success stories everywhere. There are also an exponential amount of failures that can be attributed to problems in our schooling system. The fact that the youth is so venerable at these times when learning how to function in a positive manner is why our federal government should be pushing so hard to help every person out at this critical period. Like I said before, things should be extremely well-rounded at these times. You don't produce a healthy, happy adult drilling just algebra, or just science, or just health classes all day.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[Delirium]

Granted its been quite a bit of years since i was in early grade school but i remember being taught those things. We spent quite a bit of time in health class with food pyramids and what healthy eating was about. We also were taught to brush our teeth everyday. I even remember being so hyped up about it actually competing with my sister who would brush more in a day. Last i looked though Minnesota wasnt the healthiest state in the union.

I agree with Dave on this. It isnt a big secret that eating fast food isnt healthy. Anyone who says they didnt know is on par with a tobacco user(now a days) claiming he didnt know it was bad for his health. Lying to get a check.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Delirium
Granted its been quite a bit of years since i was in early grade school but i remember being taught those things. We spent quite a bit of time in health class with food pyramids and what healthy eating was about. We also were taught to brush our teeth everyday. I even remember being so hyped up about it actually competing with my sister who would brush more in a day. Last i looked though Minnesota wasnt the healthiest state in the union.

I agree with Dave on this. It isnt a big secret that eating fast food isnt healthy. Anyone who says they didnt know is on par with a tobacco user(now a days) claiming he didnt know it was bad for his health. Lying to get a check.

The problem with that is that while smoking has been more successfully tackled, the issues concerning having a good eating regiment are still nowhere nearly as well established.

I mean, I don't look around too often and see five and six year olds with their playmates smoking a pack of Winstons on the sidewalk.

On the blue moons I actually will step foot in a fast food restaurant, I do see a bunch of kids happily and leisurely stuffing their faces with as many double Whoppers as can be conceived.



[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

Wow I couldent eat a doubble whopper when I was 5. I was happy with a 5 piece chicken tenders and a small fry

[Delirium]

That is because you have to be 18 to legally smoke. It is completely legal to eat anything your parents give you however. If a kid could walk in a store and buy a pack of winstons id bet you would see that too. I already see 10 year olds biking around smoking, i doubt its that big of a stretch.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
Wow I couldent eat a doubble whopper when I was 5. I was happy with a 5 piece chicken tenders and a small fry

I mean, unfortunately, not everyone was fortunate enough to be schooled in the conservative eating values (no pun intended) as little American Davie did...

...Which can probably be demonstrated by the fact that our country has, I think, the highest rates of obesity throughout it.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Delirium
That is because you have to be 18 to legally smoke. It is completely legal to eat anything your parents give you however. If a kid could walk in a store and buy a pack of winstons id bet you would see that too. I already see 10 year olds biking around smoking, i doubt its that big of a stretch.

And that's what you call government action.

Something that has not found its way into the school systems as readily.

Uh, whether you agree with them or not, you might want to read a few of my posts, although I have a tendency to skip larger threads as well :blush:

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[Delirium]

Heh, so maybe i should read, are you saying they should make fast food illegal til a kid is 18?

[Terminator X]

No.

I'm through with well-written out replies though.

No.

[Edaarin]

There's no link between intelligence and knowing how to eat healthy, anyway.

Just in case you had forgetten about our old ninja pal with the 234 IQ.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Edaarin]

[Sean]

Personally I feel geography was one of the most boring and uninteresting classes I took when I was in school. I don't think it's a stretch to say it's a fact that there are somethings students want to learn or care more about and will remeber and then theres things they wont. I know I personally cared more for my math and art classes, but on the other hand well my english classes not so much.

Just because I can no longer remeber each state capital or don't really care for that matter doesn't mean the school didn't teach it to me, I just didn't care enough about it to retain it. It's not the schools responsibility to make sure I remeber each tidbit of information they try and teach me, it's my own.

[Skirmisher]

The problem in my opinion is that geography IS imprtant yet has been relegated, as Tijay said, to being seen as a tidbit rather than a real subject of study.

How can someone read an article about Iraq speaking about situantions involving Iran and Turkey and really understand unless you know where these countries are in relation to Iraq. How can politics for current events, or history for that matter be taught if half the class only has a vague idea where the country being discussed is and the other half doesn't even know that much?

I think snother problem is that geography is something that should not be taught once or twice in a students career, but a normal everyday course and in fact expanded upon to better understand the different countries around the ever shrinking world..

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I had a much higher opinion of the American schooling system before Souzy's post in the Hiroshima thread. :(

Not saying this to be mean or anything, but did she have all of her schooling here?

I'm not sure if she was born in the US or not. Don't remember hearing one way or another.

[GSLady17]

Very good point. I believe that all the subjects are some how linked in some way. History I believe could be better learned if the student is taught where those countries are.

[GSLady17]

Other countries have a harder system then the U.S. I remember graduating with Foreign exchange students (sp?) who although were able to pass all subjects, (usually AP classes) and keep in mind some even had a hard time with english, when they went back their country they wern't a senior...they were a sophomore.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Edaarin
There's no link between intelligence and knowing how to eat healthy, anyway.

Just in case you had forgetten about our old ninja pal with the 234 IQ.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Edaarin]

Ninja pals???

It is just my own personal belief that individuals who have tried themselves very diligently in the mental spectrum of things and then go on to obtain niceties just as a result of learning and studying hard, should at least be educated enough to do a substantial amount of physical activity and healthy dieting to ensure that they will live long enough to enjoy their successes.

I don't really know what you mean by a 234 IQ, but I'd feel really, really bad for the genius who can cure cancer but can't apply themselves physically enough to jog only three blocks.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[Sean]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
How can someone read an article about Iraq speaking about situantions involving Iran and Turkey and really understand unless you know where these countries are in relation to Iraq. How can politics for current events, or history for that matter be taught if half the class only has a vague idea where the country being discussed is and the other half doesn't even know that much?

Schooling gave me the tools to independantly research that information. Sure they could teach me where each country is or try and teach me facts about each country. But in my opinion unless it's something I care enough to learn about it's just as useful as pop culture trivia. However the tools to locate and learn about those countries will forever be at my disposal, just as the ability to compute that information and develop an opinion based on it.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Tijay]

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Terminator X
.... but I'd feel really, really bad for the genius who can cure cancer but can't apply themselves physically enough to jog only three blocks.



I think what he was implying, Terminator, was that someone who is the kind of person you're talking about above is that way by their own choice. I seriously doubt they would blame it on poor health education. After all, if they're smart enough to cure cancer, they know what they're doing to their bodies. Maybe they just don't care.

-K

[GSLady17]

If they are happy and don't have anyone to be devistated when they die of a heart attack, then they are only hurting themselves. More important to be happy.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Skirmisher
How can someone read an article about Iraq speaking about situantions involving Iran and Turkey and really understand unless you know where these countries are in relation to Iraq. How can politics for current events, or history for that matter be taught if half the class only has a vague idea where the country being discussed is and the other half doesn't even know that much?

Schooling gave me the tools to independantly research that information. Sure they could teach me where each country is or try and teach me facts about each country. But in my opinion unless it's something I care enough to learn about it's just as useful as pop culture trivia. However the tools to locate and learn about those countries will forever be at my disposal, just as the ability to computer that information and develop an opinion based on that information.

True, Art class to me was a boring class where I learned nothing to stimulate my brain. If I am not learning or a class is not challenging, and yet, I had to take Art I and art II because they were required. It wasn't that I was bad at art, I am no artist but when we randomly drew peoples pictures out of a basket and then secretly drew the picture and everyone had to guess who we drew, Everyone got mine right so I was adequet at drawing.

I hated the class and end up talking all the time and kicked out. I got kicked out of art atleast twice a week. However, I did care enough about my GPA to earn an A in there. (due to being kicked out I only got a 97% though.)

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

Originally posted by Terminator X
.... but I'd feel really, really bad for the genius who can cure cancer but can't apply themselves physically enough to jog only three blocks.



I think what he was implying, Terminator, was that someone who is the kind of person you're talking about above is that way by their own choice. I seriously doubt they would blame it on poor health education. After all, if they're smart enough to cure cancer, they know what they're doing to their bodies. Maybe they just don't care.

-K

That's why the contrast is kind of sad to see.

I think that the inability to teach certain things to kids are going to reflect themselves extremely heavily later on in life.

If someone has never been taught a substantial amount of math from the get-go, they may go on to be too lazy to count out large chunks of change. In the same aspect, if someone is never taught a sufficient amount of personal hygiene, health, dieting, etcetera, from when they were a little kid, they might have to stop every half of a block on their stroll to D'agostinosos, just like fifty percent of the population of Texas.

It's sad. Really.

[SpunGirl]

Sure it's sad, but these are the choices people make. Everyone is so eager to blame it on this person or that person, but once you grow up and you're an adult, it's up to you to decide. The school system is there, IMO, to educate kids in certain areas of knowledge. Not to parent them. I have no problem with Health and PE classes (my husband IS a PE and Health teacher, and he coaches the basketball team), but on the same note, the grades of the kids on his team take precedent.

-K

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Sure it's sad, but these are the choices people make. Everyone is so eager to blame it on this person or that person, but once you grow up and you're an adult, it's up to you to decide. The school system is there, IMO, to educate kids in certain areas of knowledge. Not to parent them. I have no problem with Health and PE classes (my husband IS a PE and Health teacher, and he coaches the basketball team), but on the same note, the grades of the kids on his team take precedent.

-K

I agree, you make you'r own decisions. I watched my parents do Coke when I was little, after age 11, my mom stopped but my dad continued. You could say I was taught that it was ok to do Coke.

Yet, I never tried it, never wanted to.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Sure it's sad, but these are the choices people make. Everyone is so eager to blame it on this person or that person, but once you grow up and you're an adult, it's up to you to decide. The school system is there, IMO, to educate kids in certain areas of knowledge. Not to parent them. I have no problem with Health and PE classes (my husband IS a PE and Health teacher, and he coaches the basketball team), but on the same note, the grades of the kids on his team take precedent.

-K

For sure.

What I'm saying is that there are absolutely enormous loop holes, especially in densely populated areas, with respect to our faultering education system.

As a kid I went to an inner-city school at an elementary level and then to a private magnet school for middle schooling. The changes in the system were mindboggling. I saw teachers who were being paid much, much less money, yet they mysteriously managed to smile 99% more of the time than those who had been in my grade school.

The most well rounded health teacher, or phys-ed teacher, or history teacher, is not going to be able to fully explain their curriculum to a class room of fourty rowdy kids in a narrow time-frame...

You would *think* that our federal government would have an iota of intelligence, by now, to realize that if the admission numbers for these schools stay relatively within the same bounds, whilst staffing increases and more classrooms are built, that all of these Bush-administration's wastings of taxpayers money on faulty schooling methods would not even have to be a consideration, or would at least be laughed at. Unfortunately though, because of the fact that a many, many people, who I strongly, strongly feel do not have the right to actually parent these children, yet have brought them into the world, the school system must take such an action. And in no way does this mean simply setting up a bunch of after-school acitivities and then calling it a day.

If I were president, I would invest absurd amounts of money into the state of education in the U.S. that would deal with what is just an absolute lack of an aggressive hands on approach. Especially funding that strongly reinforced the neccesity to build individual student to teacher relations.

[Latrinsorm]

What would you take out to teach Geography though? In middle school we had English, Math, Science, History, Foreign Language, Gym/Health, and Music. Is Geography more important than any of those? Especially when, as has been previously noted, Geography is basically an exercise in trivia where years of study can be adequately substituted for by google.

[SpunGirl]

In middle school, we had one semester of geography and then another of world history. Makes sense to me. "Here's where all the shit is, this is what happened here." In high shcool, World History was freshman year and US History was junior year. Govn't and Economics was senior year. By World History, I think we were pretty much expected to know where on the map this stuff was happening.

-K

[Valthissa]

taught well, geography is history. For example, why there is no Kurdistan is much more interesting than the shape of Iraq - but the answer certainly impacts the geography of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.

taught poorly, geography is as boring as has been posted many times in this thread.

I'm not rational on the subject of public education so I'll stop here.

C/Valth

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
You never hear McDonalds saying... "Eat our Big Mac! Its healthy and has no fat!"

Actually, that's not far off what they do say.
And if you dare to say otherwise....they take you to Court

McLibel (http://www.spannerfilms.net/?lid=161)

[Nieninque]

People are also looking at a very small part of what Geography is about if they are looking purely and simply at what country/city is where.
Geography is also about physical features of the world and how they are made and all shit like that.
Very little of it was "What is the capital city of Mozamique"

Can you tell I didnt do well in Geography?

[cajunlady]

Seems to me I recall having geography and world history in a split semester type setting as well, but as a freshman in high school. The teacher also ended the class each day with current events in the paper. I believe the most heated time we had in current events was Geraldine Ferraro being on a vice presidential ticket. I specifically recall one of the boys saying "If the president died and SHE was in charge... No way can a woman be president!" And then there was the idiot who thought she had something to do with a car...
I might not be able to go on jeopardy with my knowledge of geography, but.. I feel I have a good chance of recognizing whats being asked for if given options to choose from, and I know where to goto to get the answer if not.
Had to learn the periodic table when in the 8th grade, and I'm terrible with math/science... humanities all the way here, but at least I can listen to people who are in that field and recognize some of wha they speak of. It's called being well rounded. It is up to the student to be motivated to learn, at least past grammer school it is. My high school is in the middle of farm country and consolidated 3 area towns. There were 277 students the year I graduated in our ENTIRE student body, frosh-senior. Not a lot of money to pay our teachers with. In the class I graduated with, we have at least one doctor of medicine, a lawyer, a conductor of music who has played in Carnegie Hall, a well travelled motivational speaker... tell the truth I feel like a sad sack for not doing much in comparison. My point is... moeny won't make the education. A community of parents, teachers, administration, and students who gives a damn will.

[CrystalTears]

OMG woman, paragraphs. For the sanity.

[Asha]

Difficulty. . . reading . . wall of . . text.

:just kidding:

[cajunlady]

*sorry*! Just spank me and get i over with fast...
NOOB

[Apathy]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I see your link Apathy and retort with a really long post

Though I have nothing to disagree with in your post, the lack of bitter sarcasm and "fuck you" attitude in your link means that:

My original statement > Your well planned retort

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Apathy

...

Though I have nothing to disagree with in your post, the lack of bitter sarcasm and "fuck you" attitude in your link means that:
...


The fuck you attitude in my link?

I think you read a little too much into something where there was in fact only a link.
:?:

Originally posted by Skirmisher


The fuck you attitude in my link?

I think you read a little too much into something where there was in fact only a link.
:?:

I thought he was saying that your lack of sarcasm and the fact that you didn't say "fuck you" means you lose.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Terminator X
The problem with that is that while smoking has been more successfully tackled, the issues concerning having a good eating regiment are still nowhere nearly as well established.

I mean, I don't look around too often and see five and six year olds with their playmates smoking a pack of Winstons on the sidewalk.

On the blue moons I actually will step foot in a fast food restaurant, I do see a bunch of kids happily and leisurely stuffing their faces with as many double Whoppers as can be conceived.



[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Terminator X] I completely agree with you on this. I feel that if people truly understood just how much money, time, and effort is spent on mass marketing unhealthy eating to children, they would understand that it is usually a downhill battle for the majority of parents to have to counter-act the intense advertising that goes into play. And this, until their child becomes a legal adult.

Last check was around 13 billion dollars being spent annually on marketing foods that are high in fat and sugars which are specifically aimed at child; (McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wendy’s, Burger King :drool: ) just to name a few. Marketing strategies are put in place to automatically make it difficult for parents by encouraging children to nag their parents until their only answer is yes even grudgingly so. We’ve all seen a kid or two throw a fit in the grocery store because they want some gum or candy and their parent tells them no the first time. Are children not the most vulnerable and impressionable in our society?

Through the combined efforts of television commercials, magazine ads, vending machines in school, and even fast food restaurants, what’s the exact message we as a society are sending to kids and young adults... By the time a high school student reaches graduation, they’ve viewed around 360,000 commercials. Just imagime 50% of those being fast food ads targeted at children and young adults.

The ads promoting fruit and vegetables do not have anywhere near those figures.

[Edited on 8-8-2005 by DeV]

[JadeScarlet]

McDonalds/Obesity Issue: I wasn't allowed to have McDonalds as a kid. My parents told me it was junk food and bad for me. My parents didn't teach me healthy eating habits either. My dad is a vegetarian who eats loads of potato chips and ice cream. I picked up most healthy eating habits after I moved out. Now I never eat any junk food (McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, KFC, anything else). Occasionally I may have a Cadbury Creme Egg McFlurry, but not very often.

On Geography: I know where all the states and capitols are. I learned them all in elementary school, but as an adult its been reinforced mostly by doing lots of road trips. I've been to every state on the east coast. And getting lost and staring at a state map of Connecticut for hours...you learn where stuff is. I'm glad they taught me to read maps in school.

I know the countrys of the world fairly well also, although I doubt I could do all the capitols. I enjoy travelling though, so before I go to a country I usually take the time to learn about it.

My Geography class in high school was more like a geology and geomorphology class with current events discussions. It was in World history that we got a map to memorize every week, along with the locations of where important cities, trade routes, rivers, battles, etc.

When I moved to London, I bought a poster map of England and put it on my wall. Everytime someone mentions a city I make a mental note and look it up so I know where it is. As a kid I had a world map which is probably terribly out of date now (it was from 1988).

On the state of education in general: I agree with HarmNone. Parents aren't involved enough. When I was 8, my parents and I took the train up the east coast and visited Philadelphia, New York, and Washington DC. The showed me Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, the Declaration of Independnce, The Statue of Liberty, the World Trade Center, the United Nations building, The Washington Monument, the US Capitol Building, the Whitehouse, the Library of Congress, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't remember much of. I was totally prepared when I did US History in 5th grade.

On evolution: Don't get me started...if we are going to teach creation we might as well teach that the earth is flat.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
The American public school system is nothing more than a turnstile of less than mediocrity. That is not to say that there are not those who benefit and excel before going on to college, but I’m positive you don’t even need one ounce (28.47 grams for the rest of the world) of a brain to get a high school diploma. I mean Christ, I’m living proof.

Holyshit I thought for sure you were going to defend the public school system and its importance in our society like most socialists do. Kudos for recognising the American public school system for the piece of garbage that it is.

[Artha]

I had more faith in the state of education in the US before excellerated english.

[Skirmisher]

I think all the tools for someone to obtain an excellent education are there in the US public schools.

I simply think that the standards for advancement are far too low and that parents rely far too much on TV and the internet to babysit/entertain/teach their kids.

The point Jadescarlet brought up about maps in the kitchen is a perfect simple way for the entire family to continue their own education. At discussions at meals, look at the map to see where the place being discussed is. It's not just something you learn in a course once or twice, but every day and all you really have to do is slap three maps up on the wall. One of the state you are in, one of the US and one of the world.

Children really want to learn and I see them come into my kitchen all the time and gravitate towards the maps with very little prompting.

Parents just need to help make the entire process of learning become more integrated in everyday life at home.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
one of the US and one of the world.Um, redundant much? ;)

[Skirmisher]

My point EXACTLY! :bleh:

[JadeScarlet]

I forgot to mention one of my favourite games was the latitude/longitude game. We had US maps on our placemats, so my mom taught us latitude and longitude when we were young. She would say, I'm thinking of a city with Latitude 30 and Longitude 96, then my brother and I would stare at our maps and try to find the city. We did it in the morning while having breakfast before school.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by JadeScarlet

On the state of education in general: I agree with HarmNone. Parents aren't involved enough. When I was 8, my parents and I took the train up the east coast and visited Philadelphia, New York, and Washington DC. The showed me Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, the Declaration of Independnce, The Statue of Liberty, the World Trade Center, the United Nations building, The Washington Monument, the US Capitol Building, the Whitehouse, the Library of Congress, and a bunch of other stuff that I don't remember much of. I was totally prepared when I did US History in 5th grade.

On evolution: Don't get me started...if we are going to teach creation we might as well teach that the earth is flat.


Some parents don't have the money to do that. However, I do understand your idea of being involved.

Evolution: Why not teach that and what the bible says? Just because you teach what the bible says, doesn't mean you are saying it is right.

I took a college class based on Religion. It was very interesting and I enjoyed it very much. I don't believe everything the bible says and after the class I still don't. (I think it's been translated and added to way too many times)

Geography: Why not add another class? We had 4 periods, 3 trimester system. There was idle time in the classes and I NEVER had homework. Why not add another class. It won't kill kids to have more homework. Or, do it in grade school. My grandparents were learning capitals in countries and states in 2nd grade. It seems most schools think kids are too young to retain that much information. They need more credit.

The education system not only sucks, but is too easy.

[Janarth]

You know, I couldn't name all the capitals or tell you the states that border illinois....but I don't think thats really important. See, thats stuff you can easily look at a map for. I'd rather our kids were taught to APPLY knowledge and THINK CRITICALLY rather than just retaining knowledge we feed them.

IE, do I want my kid to win the 4th grade spelling bee and geography bee, or do I want him to win the 4th grade science fair cause he was curious about why volcanos happened, researched it himself, and came up with some interesting questions/theories.

Don't know about you guys, but I consider myself in the top 1-2% of the US in education for my age bracket (based on standardized tests and college degree) and I can't name all the state capitals; but I CAN research a problem I am presented with, use logic and work through it and pretty much pick up enough on any subject to present a viable solution. Rather our children had that then just stupid retention abilities. Long live enginerds, the critical thinkers!

[Back]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Backlash
The American public school system is nothing more than a turnstile of less than mediocrity. That is not to say that there are not those who benefit and excel before going on to college, but I’m positive you don’t even need one ounce (28.47 grams for the rest of the world) of a brain to get a high school diploma. I mean Christ, I’m living proof.

Holyshit I thought for sure you were going to defend the public school system and its importance in our society like most socialists do. Kudos for recognising the American public school system for the piece of garbage that it is.

Don’t get me wrong. It is important and a great thing. I agree though it starts at home. Parents need to take the lead role in their child’s education.

To live up to my socialistic ideals I’ll go a step further and suggest College/University should be public also.

[Warriorbird]

Why?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Janarth
You know, I couldn't name all the capitals or tell you the states that border illinois....but I don't think thats really important. See, thats stuff you can easily look at a map for. I'd rather our kids were taught to APPLY knowledge and THINK CRITICALLY rather than just retaining knowledge we feed them.



Of course critical thinking is key, that was my whole point, not to know just to know, but to know so as to better understand.

Should you know EVERY state and capital? Not necessarily, but why not? It really isn't hard. And when this sort of learning is done over a long period of time rather than in a single semester course it will stay with you.

Education should be constant. It should be fun, for the child and for the family as a whole. There are so many ways to incorporate learning into everyday life at home that to not is a crime to me.

Certain places have greater historical signifigance for a reason. The Khyber Pass is not taught about because the name is cute. It was not prized for its beaches, or it's unending supplies of gold but simply for its location.

So my points about geography are not solely so that someone can sit down and name every country state and capitol, but to understand where they are makes understanding so many other things easier. There is an interdependence that needs to be shown so as to transform the simple short term memorization of lists of places into a long term understanding of how they are all linked together.

[Back]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Why?

Why not? Our college attendance rate is abysmal. It might have something to do with how much it costs to go. It would be in our best interest as a whole if we could make a college education available to ANY one despite personal or family income. Imagine getting out of school without a $40,000 debt over your head.

I’m not saying abolish private schools in any way.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
To live up to my socialistic ideals I’ll go a step further and suggest College/University should be public also. [/quote]

I do think the cost of an University in America is a lot. I know I received my undergrad at a top notch school for a fraction of what I would have paid in America. By the time I did my masters costs had gone up but still cheaper than the US.

When you say public universities do mean state owned? I thought State Universities were already public?

LINK (http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Higher_Education/Colleges_and_Universities/United_States/Public/)

Are you suggesting that University education be free? If so how would you finance this? or are you suggesting that University be subsidised by the Government? If so to what level? for all programs? or just specific ones?

[Back]

Tax the rich more, tax the corporations, lower middle class taxes too while you are at it.

Keep private schools/universities, but keep the scholarship thing going.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
Tax the rich more, tax the corporations, lower middle class taxes too while you are at it.

Keep private schools/universities, but keep the scholarship thing going.


Lol more taxes, why am I not surprised.

[Back]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Backlash
Tax the rich more, tax the corporations, lower middle class taxes too while you are at it.

Keep private schools/universities, but keep the scholarship thing going.


Lol more taxes, why am I not surprised.

Of course. Our taxes pay for many good things that I happily pay and everyone takes for granted. But they also pay for stuff the general public does not benefit from at all. I’m not saying tax the middle/lower classes or businesses either.

[Warriorbird]

I think we have bigger things to worry about than correcting what Reagan did to the university system. What comes beforehand is a bigger concern.

[Skirmisher]

Now this is just sad.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_re_us/where_s_louisiana;_ylt=AiFKagcfbp4fwbcy3epp_Rys0NU E;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-


Poll: 1/3 of Youths Can't Find La. on Map


By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, Associated Press Writer 39 minutes ago

Despite the wall-to-wall coverage of the damage from Hurricane Katrina, nearly one-third of young Americans recently polled couldn't locate Louisiana on a map and nearly half were unable to identify Mississippi.

Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 fared even worse with foreign locations: six in 10 couldn't find Iraq, according to a Roper poll conducted for National Geographic.

"Geographic illiteracy impacts our economic well-being, our relationships with other nations and the environment, and isolates us from the world," National Geographic president John Fahey said in announcing a program to help remedy the problem. It's hoping to enlist businesses, nonprofit groups and educators in a bid to improve geographic literacy.

Planned is a five-year, multimedia campaign called My Wonderful World that will target children 8 to 17. The goal is to motivate parents and educators to expand geographic offerings in school, at home and in their communities.

They will have their task cut out for them, judging by the results of the survey of 510 people interviewed in December and January.

Among the findings:

• One-third of respondents couldn't pinpoint Louisiana on a map and 48 percent were unable to locate Mississippi.

• Fewer than three in 10 think it important to know the locations of countries in the news and just 14 percent believe speaking another language is a necessary skill.

• Two-thirds didn't know that the earthquake that killed 70,000 people in October 2005 occurred in Pakistan.

• Six in 10 could not find Iraq on a map of the Middle East.

• While the outsourcing of jobs to India has been a major U.S. business story, 47 percent could not find the Indian subcontinent on a map of Asia.

• While Israeli-Palestinian strife has been in the news for the entire lives of the respondents, 75 percent were unable to locate Israel on a map of the Middle East.

• Nearly three-quarters incorrectly named English as the most widely spoken native language.

• Six in 10 did not know the border between North and South Korea is the most heavily fortified in the world. Thirty percent thought the most heavily fortified border was between the United States and Mexico.

Joining in the effort to improve geographic knowledge will be the 4-H, American Federation of Teachers, Asia Society, Association of American Geographers, National Basketball Association, National Council of La Raza, National PTA, Smithsonian Institution and others.

"Geography exposes children and adults to diverse cultures, different ideas and the exchange of knowledge from around the world," said Anna Marie Weselak, president of the National PTA. "This campaign will help make sure our children get their geography — so they can become familiar with other cultures during their school years and move comfortably and confidently in a global economy as adults."

___

On the Net:

National Geographic: http://www.nationalgeographic.org

[Skeeter]

do this same poll in your office. I bet you have similar results. People just don't pay attention to things that don't directly affect them.

[Skirmisher]

do this same poll in your office. I bet you have similar results. People just don't pay attention to things that don't directly affect them.

The problem is that people are too ignorant to even KNOW what is directly affecting them through taxes and world opinion of the US.

Anyone who thinks that the debacle that was the reaction to Katrina and the US incursion into Iraq does not directly impact on them and their pocketbook should be put down.

[Gan]

Anyone who thinks that the debacle that was the reaction to Katrina and the US incursion into Iraq does not directly impact on them and their pocketbook should be put down.

Thats probably one of the most idiotic statements I've seen on this board in a while.

Perhaps I should be put down... yea, thats it... :banghead:

[Skirmisher]

Thats probably one of the most idiotic statements I've seen on this board in a while.


No.

Far more idiotc would be you trying to claim that you in any way shape or form thought for a moment that I was not engaging in hyperbole there and was literally advocating all who were so ignorant should be put to death.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd much rather someone know *what* and *why* Israel is then *where* Israel is.

[DeV]

I'd rather they know all three.

[Latrinsorm]

Sure, but a study that says "PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHERE" is kind of like a study saying "HYBRID CARS HAVE AN UNPLEASANT ODOR". It doesn't really mean anything to me given there are much deeper concerns.

[Skirmisher]

I'd much rather someone know *what* and *why* Israel is then *where* Israel is.

Assuming we put aside the fact that a countries geography, both internal and relative to it's neighbors plays a critical role in its historical, economical and political developement, that to me seems like saying I'd rather be able to have my sense of sight than my sense of hearing.

Why does it have to be a choice?

Thats admitting defeat before even trying.

[Latrinsorm]

It doesn't have to be a choice, but a survey that only asks the least important question doesn't have much meaning no matter what its results are.

[Skirmisher]

It doesn't have to be a choice, but a survey that only asks the least important question doesn't have much meaning no matter what its results are.

We obviously differ on what qualifies as important.

[Sean of the Thread]

Don't be too hard on Skirm... she was obviously educated in a third world country. We should spend more money on providing education to these places as obviously our humanitarian efforts are not enough.. citing dumb bitch as an example.

[Skirmisher]

Don't be too hard on Skirm... she was obviously educated in a third world country. We should spend more money on providing education to these places as obviously our humanitarian efforts are not enough.. citing dumb bitch as an example.

Yes somehow I am the one able to make an argument without feeling the continuous need to resort to calling people dumb bitches, cunts or retards.

[Gan]

No.

Far more idiotc would be you trying to claim that you in any way shape or form thought for a moment that I was not engaging in hyperbole there and was literally advocating all who were so ignorant should be put to death.

Actually, I take almost everything you say to be hyperbole and do not give it a second though as fact or with much validity. Thank god you cleared that up for me.

[Skirmisher]

Actually, I take almost everything you say to be hyperbole and do not give it a second though as fact or with much validity. Thank god you cleared that up for me.

Wow.

Sorry to hear you are so easily confused.

Good luck with that.

[DeV]

It's not hard to learn where a country is located on a map. A country one might someday find themself engaged in debate about. It's not as if they're being asked to learn Persian Farsi for fucks sake.