Pepper Sprayed At the Drive In

[Overlord]

0wnz0r3d!! (http://www.filecabi.net/host/file/gavemea20/wmv)


Ah, another example of fine american police abuse. He kind of reminds me of Officer Farva from Super Troopers ha!

[ElanthianSiren]

I would have forgone the 60k just to pepper spray a whole can at his dumbass. I can't stand liars.

-M

[Overlord]

The fact that there was video evidence should have been enough to get the guy demoted to a traffic officer position for a while. Dumb bastard.

[Nieninque]

How can he be shown to have done nothing wrong?
He tried to arrest her for nothing then assaulted her over it...what a prick

[Hulkein]

That cop was definitely over the top there.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Hulkein
That cop was definitely over the top there.

And the understatement of the year award goes to......[drum roll]....

[Landrion]

Im not justifying that guy by any means. The video does illustrate some very important points.

Never raise your voice or curse at an officer. It's only going to escalate the situation.

Follow instructions. If they say you are under arrest, go peacefully. Refusing to go with them - could land you trouble for resisting arrest.

Of course, with our legal system she'll probably walk away with 50 times my yearly salary over this - so what the fuck do I know.

[ElanthianSiren]

It says she only got 60k and had to be taken to the hospital for care after he assaulted her.

Depending on her health status (African Americans are VERY prone to athsma and sickle cell anemia) and whether or not she had health insurance, a visit to the ER could eat a bit of that up.

For me though, it's not about the money really. It's a situation where someone attempted to bullnose his way into 1. getting an extra 10 bucks. 2. intimidating both the girl and the manager. 3. calling another person a liar when he himself was lying.

The girl's very brave and so is her manager for just not caving, even if she could have achieved more by being calm. :clap:

-M

[Snapp]

Damn, that was harsh. I don't know how he was cleared of any wrong-doing with a video like this?

[Alfster]

This is why I live in a town with only 3 or 4 police officers.

[Skirmisher]

He should have been fired, prosecuted and jailed.

She should have gotten a hell of a lot more too.

When whomever is in charge of recruiting hires friggin arrogant fools to be cops and this is what happens.

[DeV]

The cop was wrong. He should have backed off once the manager assured him of that. However, she could have definitely handled herself differently, but who knows how one would react given the situation.

If I was ever falsley accused and knew I was on closed circuit televsion being recorded, I would chill my ass out and did what he asked with the pleasure of knowing the cop was in the wrong and that could and would be proven. Though the fact that he was cleared of wrongdoing in the end even though the city had to pay her 60k for her injuries kind of makes you wonder.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
She should have gotten a hell of a lot more too.

Agreed. People get millions for silly lawsuits. Then this girl is falsely accused of stealing and then assaulted by a cop ON CAMERA and gets 60k. :thumbsdown:
I'm sure if it wasn't on camera she would've gotten zip and probably charged with something.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by DeV
The cop was wrong. He should have backed off once the manager assured him of that. However, she could have definitely handled herself differently, but who knows how one would react given the situation.

If I was ever falsley accused and knew I was on closed circuit televsion being recorded, I would chill my ass out and did what he asked with the pleasure of knowing the cop was in the wrong and that could and would be proven. Though the fact that he was cleared of wrongdoing in the end even though the city had to pay her 60k for her injuries kind of makes you wonder.

It makes me think her lawyers should be maced.

60K for that and with Video! Pathetic.

And as for the cop, hell, imagine what he would do if he thought you stole a hundred if he would do that for 10.00?

The fact that he is still wearing a uniform is sad.

[DeV]

The fact that they would pay this girl any amount of money for actions that the cop was completely cleared for speaks volumes.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Hulkein
That cop was definitely over the top there.

And the understatement of the year award goes to......[drum roll]....

Nah, it's not like he beat her to a pulp.

She was technically resisting arrest, that's why he got off. It just could've been handled better by both parties, especially the cop, seeing as it's his job.

<< He should have been fired, prosecuted and jailed. >>

Fired... maybe. Jailed? No.

She was resisting arrest. He did tell her that she was going to get peppersprayed if she didn't go with him.

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[Skirmisher]

Hulk....you say this stuff and I often sit here and wonder if you would say the same thng if it was your sister getting maced for no reason except that some fool who was mistakenly given a badge and a gun went on an ego trip and decided to abuse his power.

I am not ttacking all cops by any stretch of the imagination so please do not make the mistake of thinking I am.

I am saying this one poor excuse for a law enforcement officer broke the law and got away with it. On video no less. Thats sad.

[Latrinsorm]

But you don't wonder what you would say if it was your brother getting fired for doing his job? However idiotic the situation is, resisting arrest is resisting arrest.

[Skirmisher]

I'm sorry what "JOB" was that officer doing there?

There was NO crime untill he maced her.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The girl's very brave and so is her manager for just not caving, even if she could have achieved more by being calm. :clap:

-M

Oh come on now...

She's brave? Doesn't she say something like "Nuh uh, I'm not listening to no cop they put my brother away." I'm leaning more towards stupid than brave.

Obviously the police officer was wrong and took it too far, but she was acting defiant and putting him in a bad position.

[ElanthianSiren]

It's very difficult in a service position not to just say "Oh, okay, whatever" and give the customer a 10 from the till. That's the easy way out.

Saying, "Absolutely not, I didn't take your money" and repeating the truth even when faced with physical violence is brave IMO. Sorry, if you feel differently.

-M

[DeV]

I lay most if not all of the blame in this situation on the officer. She wouldn't have gotten paid had he not fucked up. The girl could have, should have behaved BETTER, more appropriately than him and obviously has a history of dealing with police. However we honestly cannot sit here and say that he acted any better than she.

She broke no law prior to resisting arrest.

[Sylph]

That... Sucks.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Oh come on now...

She's brave? Doesn't she say something like "Nuh uh, I'm not listening to no cop they put my brother away." I'm leaning more towards stupid than brave.

Obviously the police officer was wrong and took it too far, but she was acting defiant and putting him in a bad position.

She put him in a bad position?

How exactly? By giving his proper change?

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Hulk....you say this stuff and I often sit here and wonder if you would say the same thng if it was your sister getting maced for no reason except that some fool who was mistakenly given a badge and a gun went on an ego trip and decided to abuse his power.

I am not ttacking all cops by any stretch of the imagination so please do not make the mistake of thinking I am.

I am saying this one poor excuse for a law enforcement officer broke the law and got away with it. On video no less. Thats sad.

Im not entirely certain he did break the law. As has been said he did warn her, he did inform her she was under arrest. Now, there are laws about excessive force and false arrest but the situation is compounded by the fact that she refused to go with him. Im not a lawyer so I dont know.

I dont see why he needed to spray her since he is obviously much larger and she doesnt look capable of resisting him. If I were sitting on a jury that would bother me. I would not however, find it odd that he didnt take the word of the manager or the woman, people lie to the cops constantly.

However, if it was one of *my* relatives (yes I know you addressed that Hulkein), I would say one thing. I would be all over my relative about being a stupid ass and resisting arrest. You dont talk shit to a cop, you dont disobey them. Thats a short route to getting your ass kicked. Whether you like it or not they have an ass load of power and it is certainly not worth it to fuck with one over 10 dollars. When you address a cop you say "No officer, Yes officer, I understand officer". Never mind an imaginary sister, Id say that to my son, though with less cursing.

[Landrion]

Also, while it appears like the cop was being an ass for not listening to the manager. Ive seen recreations of how it is very easy to pocket bills while cashiering. The manager's response was that there was no 20 in her drawer but if I were a suspicious man who was sure he got ripped off that wouldnt mean a lot to me.

Also, we have the benefit of watching over her shoulder on the tape, the officer was plainly unaware of that so he doesnt have the benefit of knowing she didnt pocket something like we did.

However, the cop still made a dick move. He cost the taxpayers 60 grand and made cops look bad all over the place. For 10 bucks. Lovely.

[Skirmisher]

He could have asked if there was video. He could have asked to speak to the district manager.

But because he was a jerk with an inferiority complex and a badge instead of a real officer he did what he did.

[DeV]

They could have also counted her drawer. Easy solution.

I've actually requsted that a Gas station cashier count her drawer when I gave her a 20 and she insisted it was a 10. We argued a bit and her manager ended up giving me the correct change, but I left my number with her anyway because if I was wrong (which I knew I wasn't) I wanted her to call and let me know. She called me later and offered an apology instead.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Hulk....you say this stuff and I often sit here and wonder if you would say the same thng if it was your sister getting maced for no reason except that some fool who was mistakenly given a badge and a gun went on an ego trip and decided to abuse his power.

I am not ttacking all cops by any stretch of the imagination so please do not make the mistake of thinking I am.

I am saying this one poor excuse for a law enforcement officer broke the law and got away with it. On video no less. Thats sad.

I'd be very angry if it was my sister... That's also why they don't allow family members to be jurors.

Looking at it objectively as a juror I'd say this cop doesn't have the self control to currently be on active duty.

He either needs to be fired or reprimanded and forced to go to classes for anger or whatever they do for this type of action.

He certainly doesn't deserve to go to jail when he has suspicion someone pocketed his twenty dollars, which would explain why there were no twenties in the drawer.

He said she was under arrest, if she goes with him like she's told, they pull the tape for review, find out she didn't pocket it, and she is let off and the cop looks like a douche bag.

[Hulkein]

In conclusion, saying NAW FUCK THE PO-LICE THEY SHULDN'T OF PUT MY BROTHER AWAY isn't the best course of action for the McDonalds worker.

Spraying the lady in the face (even though she was warned) that quickly wasn't the best course of action for the cop.

[ElanthianSiren]

False arrest is kind of a big thing, would be to me anyway. Plus, the girl is like half his size in the tape, and he cornered her in a tiny office. Fight or flight. It doesn't surprise me at all that she got upset.

Further, if he's the officer, he should be the one in control of the situation. Neither one of them looked in control of the situation.

-M

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
He could have asked if there was video. He could have asked to speak to the district manager.

But because he was a jerk with an inferiority complex and a badge instead of a real officer he did what he did.

True, but there were equal shares of "could have" to go around.

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
False arrest is kind of a big thing, would be to me anyway. Plus, the girl is like half his size in the tape, and he cornered her in a tiny office. Fight or flight. It doesn't surprise me at all that she got upset.

Further, if he's the officer, he should be the one in control of the situation. Neither one of them looked in control of the situation.

-M
He was in control, thats what peper spray is for.

She was being belligerent from the start, she got what she deserved... minus the $60,000 settlement.

[DeV]

Yeah, but people need to be more realistic about a situation like this.

The cop seems unstable if he couldn't think of the tons of other alternate solutions he could have utilized to find of if she actually pocketed his money.

His first question to himself should have been, "Why would anyone in their right mind pocket a few dollars worth of change from a police officer in the first place."

Just imagine being put in a situation like that. I know it's fucked up but If she had pocketed the change, she would have probably ended up on America's Dumbest Criminals.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Landrion


True, but there were equal shares of "could have" to go around.

Equal?

I'm sorry but you are insane or watching a different clip.

She did not make the error.
She did not cause the confrontation.
She did not assault another person.

Please.

[ElanthianSiren]

Not to mention, it looks like he grabs her by the hair at one point. I think that's excessive, out of control force.

-M

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Dave
He was in control, thats what peper spray is for.

She was being belligerent from the start, she got what she deserved... minus the $60,000 settlement.

He was in control?

No, thats exactly the problem he was not in control. He was letting his ego and anger rule him or such blatant stpidity would never have happened.

She is a child and he is a supposed trained adult law enforcement officer and you and an idiot to make any such statement such as she got what she deserved.

God but your brain cells should be recalled.

For all the OMG he assulted her by using pepper spray!!11

Pepper spray is very temporary, getting a spray of it would cause less damage than him throwing her ass to the ground and cuffing her.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave

He was in control, thats what peper spray is for.

She was being belligerent from the start, she got what she deserved... minus the $60,000 settlement. lol... So she deserved to be accused of stealing his chump change when she clearly did not? She deserved to be called a liar when she clearly did not lie?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Dave
For all the OMG he assulted her by using pepper spray!!11

Pepper spray is very temporary, getting a spray of it would cause less damage than him throwing her ass to the ground and cuffing her.

So we can all walk up to you and pepper spray you then because we are having a bad day and its only temporary?

Awesome!

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Dave
He was in control, thats what peper spray is for.

She was being belligerent from the start, she got what she deserved... minus the $60,000 settlement.

He was in control?

No, thats exactly the problem he was not in control. He was letting his ego and anger rule him or such blatant stpidity would never have happened.

She is a child and he is a supposed trained adult law enforcement officer and you and an idiot to make any such statement such as she got what she deserved.

God but your brain cells should be recalled.

How many children shoot at cops. Age does not matter, she resisted arrest. If she was arrested she would have been easily cleared, but that was not the case. She decided to swear, yell, and flail her arms in front of the police officer. Its called escalating force. Verbal warning, chemical deterrent, physical violence, deadly force. That's the way it goes, that's what happened, would have amused me more if he took out his baton and cracked her over the head. :)

[ElanthianSiren]

Further, he opens the dialogue with her with "Where's my money"

Innocent until proven guilty, maybe?

-M

also, if he's properly arresting her, where are her miranda rights?

[Edited on Wed, August rd, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Dave
For all the OMG he assulted her by using pepper spray!!11

Pepper spray is very temporary, getting a spray of it would cause less damage than him throwing her ass to the ground and cuffing her.

So we can all walk up to you and pepper spray you then because we are having a bad day and its only temporary?

Awesome!

Ive had worse done, don't be upset if you get the shit beat out of you after you do it, but id say bring it.

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Dave]

I'm just shocked that anyone can stand up for the cop in this situation. This is blantant abuse of equipment, authority, and our trust in law enforcement.

- Arkans

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
That's the way it goes, that's what happened, would have amused me more if he took out his baton and cracked her over the head. :) You find police brutality amusing?

This is probably one of the most disgusting comments I've ever read from you, Dave.

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Further, he opens the dialogue with her with "Where's my money"

Innocent until proven guilty, maybe?

-M

also, if he's properly arresting her, where are her miranda rights?

[Edited on Wed, August rd, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

Shows what you dont know about Miranda.

They are read after the person is on custody, (as a example cuffed) and before any questioning.
You read a person their rights while you are in the process of arresting them thats just stupid.

HEY HEY! SOTP SOOTING A SECOND i NEED TO READ YOU YOUR RIGHTS!

[Skirmisher]

I thought it was no big deal?

Make up your mind.

So was he right because he had a gun and was bigger? Or was he right because he was right?

Originally posted by Arkans
I'm just shocked that anyone can stand up for the cop in this situation. This is blantant abuse of equipment, authority, and our trust in law enforcement.

- Arkans

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time)

[Skirmisher]

Dave insulting someone else over a lack of information is a good one.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I thought it was no big deal?

Make up your mind.

So was he right because he had a gun and was bigger? Or was he right because he was right?

When did I use the word right?
I said she got what she deserved for being a belligerent bitch.
There you go putting words into my mouth agian.

[CrystalTears]

Well after finally being able to see the video on my stupid ass work computer while it buffered over 20 times in the process, I have to say, that the cop was a big :asshole:

I don't know why he was allowed to go back there after he was told by management that she didn't even have a $20 in her register, and you see her putting the money in there. So he feels he got jipped, take it up with the manager. That's why he's in charge and can fire her or take whatever action he likes.

The cop going after her, and spraying her was tremendously fucked up and I hope he gets fired. The fucker.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Dave insulting someone else over a lack of information is a good one.
Its common sense, not lack of information.
Hell turn on your TV Cops is on about 5 times a night if you have no idea how a person gets arrested, they show it right there.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave
That's the way it goes, that's what happened, would have amused me more if he took out his baton and cracked her over the head. :) You find police brutality amusing?

This is probably one of the most disgusting comments I've ever read from you, Dave.

Dave is such a good Christian. It's evident in just about every thread he posts in.

Raven

[Skirmisher]

You are the one laughing at the idea of an innocent child being attacked and wanting her to be more brutally attacked.

I don't have to put words in your mouth....you spit them out just fine.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time) A lesson that cost the city 60 thousand.

What the fuck... that's one that needs to be taught to anyone that decides to get stupid with an office because they didn't break the law. That's the ticket.

At the time, who was to say she didn't pocket the $20.
so she doesn't have any 20's in her register, AT the time that wouldn't have satisfied me if I believed I gave a 20 and received change for a 10.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Dave insulting someone else over a lack of information is a good one.
Its common sense, not lack of information.
Hell turn on your TV Cops is on about 5 times a night if you have no idea how a person gets arrested, they show it right there.

Yes but she did NOTHING wrong (other than have attitude, and sometimes you can't blame someone being that way when accused of something they didn't do), all he had was speculation because he was less $10, even though he was told he was wrong. Pepper-spraying a minor over a lousy $10 is just moronic.

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave
That's the way it goes, that's what happened, would have amused me more if he took out his baton and cracked her over the head. :) You find police brutality amusing?

This is probably one of the most disgusting comments I've ever read from you, Dave.

Dave is such a good Christian. It's evident in just about every thread he posts in.

Raven
I do a job where knowing how, and killing people is part of the profession, so no, I'm not the best Christian. I dont see the point of the comment though nor the relation to the topic.

[ElanthianSiren]

Well, obviously, she wasn't going anywhere. Maybe asking her to come to the station and discuss the matter calmly, rather than hair pulling and touching her would have been more appropriate for someone so in control of the situation. The fact that he never tries to cuff her or read her her rights speaks a lot for his intent. The fact that he comes in with bullying questions and accusations speaks even more.

Further, why not wait for her mother to arrive or view the tape yourself?

I doubt also, that she was a threat with any kind of deadly weapon like a gun, Dave. But you never know, those scunchis girls wear, they can hurl projectiles many feet.


-M

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
At the time, who was to say she didn't pocket the $20.
so she doesn't have any 20's in her register, AT the time that wouldn't have satisfied me if I believed I gave a 20 and received change for a 10. So, because he thinks she stole his money you are advocating her being cracked over the head for getting loud and saying she didn't have it.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Dave insulting someone else over a lack of information is a good one.
Its common sense, not lack of information.
Hell turn on your TV Cops is on about 5 times a night if you have no idea how a person gets arrested, they show it right there.

Yes but she did NOTHING wrong (other than have attitude, and sometimes you can't blame someone being that way when accused of something they didn't do), all he had was speculation because he was less $10, even though he was told he was wrong. Pepper-spraying a minor over a lousy $10 is just moronic.

To be completely fair, you dont know that. We cant see the bills clearly from the video and with that video quality she could very easily have pocketed something.

And actually, the way she reacted makes it more suspicious than less. You dont need to yell and scream if you have nothing to hide.

But yes, why he went for the pepper spray I dont get either.

[CrystalTears]

And what bothers me is that if a regular person off the street had the same thing happen to them, if they walked in and demanded their money from her and threaten her, HE would get arrested. Why is it okay that this asshat cop come in and boss around just because he's a cop? That's that bullshit.

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Dave insulting someone else over a lack of information is a good one.
Its common sense, not lack of information.
Hell turn on your TV Cops is on about 5 times a night if you have no idea how a person gets arrested, they show it right there.

Yes but she did NOTHING wrong (other than have attitude, and sometimes you can't blame someone being that way when accused of something they didn't do), all he had was speculation because he was less $10, even though he was told he was wrong. Pepper-spraying a minor over a lousy $10 is just moronic.

and the cop knew that at the time how?
He appeared to be pretty damn sure he gave her a $20. (however wrong he was) Stealing is Stealing, $10 or $100 does not make a difference. At the time he thought that she broke the law, he attempted to arrest her and she resisted, he used escalating force, first he informed her that she was under arrest, second he asked her to step outside to the car, third he warned her that he was going to use pepper spray if she did not comply, lastly he sprayed her.
How much different would this have been if she was find to have stolen the money?

He was wrong, he thought she did and was going to take her in for the crime.

[Skirmisher]

Detective Dave is on the case!

He needs to question her about possible insurgent activity and potential placing of IED's along the drive through pathways.

Well done Detective!

Another case cracked!

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time) A lesson that cost the city 60 thousand.

What the fuck... that's one that needs to be taught to anyone that decides to get stupid with an office because they didn't break the law. That's the ticket.

as I said at the time.

Originally posted by CrystalTears
And what bothers me is that if a regular person off the street had the same thing happen to them, if they walked in and demanded their money from her and threaten her, HE would get arrested. Why is it okay that this asshat cop come in and boss around just because he's a cop? That's that bullshit.
Because he is a cop and has the ability to arrest people.
Joe off the street does not.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Detective Dave is on the case!

He needs to question her about possible insurgent activity and potential placing of IED's along the drive through pathways.

Well done Detective!

Another case cracked!
;)

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Landrion


True, but there were equal shares of "could have" to go around.

Equal?

I'm sorry but you are insane or watching a different clip.

She did not make the error.
She did not cause the confrontation.
She did not assault another person.

Please.

As you like. I maintain that either of them could have defused the situation.

You say that she did not make the error with a lot of certainty.
She certainly aggrivated the confrontation with her abusive language and failure to follow instructions.
She did refuse to go into custody when told "You are under arrest".

Thank you for the insanity evaluation.

:yeahthat:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
as I said at the time. :lol: Unbelievable.

[DeV]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/240424/familyguy.gif

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave
At the time, who was to say she didn't pocket the $20.
so she doesn't have any 20's in her register, AT the time that wouldn't have satisfied me if I believed I gave a 20 and received change for a 10. So, because he thinks she stole his money you are advocating her being cracked over the head for getting loud and saying she didn't have it.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

No I'm advocating her getting cracked over the head for being a dumb loudmouthed bitch.
I cant stand people like that.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by CrystalTears
And what bothers me is that if a regular person off the street had the same thing happen to them, if they walked in and demanded their money from her and threaten her, HE would get arrested. Why is it okay that this asshat cop come in and boss around just because he's a cop? That's that bullshit.
Because he is a cop and has the ability to arrest people.
Joe off the street does not.

That's him abusing his power because there was no reason to go in there, abuse her, arrest her, not give her her rights, touch her, spray her, all on an error. He was TOLD that she didn't have a $20. I find something seriously wrong with the legal system if he's allowed to just walk into a business establishment and order employees around just because he felt slighted. Give me a fucking break. He needs to grow some nads or god forbid check his money to make sure that's what he gave the girl. I don't give a shit how much attitude or words she gave him, the cop was being a prick.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by DeV
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

If you're pulling out the "Innocent until proven guilty" card, I'm pulling out the "Resisting arrest" card.

The cop was wrong. She was wrong. End of story.

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time) A lesson that cost the city 60 thousand.

What the fuck... that's one that needs to be taught to anyone that decides to get stupid with an office because they didn't break the law. That's the ticket.
Read the bolded part. It makes all the difference in the world.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah, she learned a big lesson. The cop fucked up and she made some money off the city for his screwup. Yeah that'll work well later on. :rolleyes:

[Skirmisher]

Why do you hate yourself Detective Dave?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
No I'm advocating her getting cracked over the head for being a dumb loudmouthed bitch.
I cant stand people like that. Ahhh, I knew the truth would come out at some point. Again, :lol:, :lol: at you.

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by CrystalTears
And what bothers me is that if a regular person off the street had the same thing happen to them, if they walked in and demanded their money from her and threaten her, HE would get arrested. Why is it okay that this asshat cop come in and boss around just because he's a cop? That's that bullshit.
Because he is a cop and has the ability to arrest people.
Joe off the street does not.

That's him abusing his power because there was no reason to go in there, abuse her, arrest her, not give her her rights, touch her, spray her, all on an error. He was TOLD that she didn't have a $20. I find something seriously wrong with the legal system if he's allowed to just walk into a business establishment and order employees around just because he felt slighted. Give me a fucking break. He needs to grow some nads or god forbid check his money to make sure that's what he gave the girl. I don't give a shit how much attitude or words she gave him, the cop was being a prick.

So your telling me that if a crime is assumed to be committed by a perpretrator a cop has no reason to arrest them? (think about what your saying)
Again I ask, if it was found out that she in fact did steal the money, should the cop have just let it go or arrested her as is his job and responsibility?
Could she not have complied and then the manager showed the cop the video to prove her innocence?

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave
At the time, who was to say she didn't pocket the $20.
so she doesn't have any 20's in her register, AT the time that wouldn't have satisfied me if I believed I gave a 20 and received change for a 10. So, because he thinks she stole his money you are advocating her being cracked over the head for getting loud and saying she didn't have it.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

No I'm advocating her getting cracked over the head for being a dumb loudmouthed bitch.
I cant stand people like that.

Dave, do you really want a society that would run like that?

I dont like loudmouthed people either. I sure dont like stupid people. But neither do we want people getting smacked around because of what someone else likes.

There was really no reason for him to be pepper spraying her. In the long term the event just makes it look to a lot of viewers that the police are assholes and cost the taxpayers money. God knows, Im not saying the cops should kiss people's asses. Thats not feasible. But I dont want cops smacking people around that arent physcially resisting arrest either.

[DeV]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by DeV
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

If you're pulling out the "Innocent until proven guilty" card, I'm pulling out the "Resisting arrest" card.

The cop was wrong. She was wrong. End of story. You've got no arguement in pulling that card.

I'm glad to know you would take things sitting down if you were arrested for not breaking any laws. ;)

Originally posted by Dave
[quote][i]Originally posted by

She was being belligerent from the start, she got what she deserved... minus the $60,000 settlement.

For you to reread DEV, My first post in this thread, where I said the exact same thing, just in a bit nicer terms.
It could have been a male doing the same thing and i would not have felt a bit differently.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, because there wasn't a crime to barge in and arrest her for, based on speculation. Sure she wasn't bright by resisting arrest, but honestly, can you blame the girl for not trusting the police, only to be proven right?

It could have been handled much better. He could have spoken to the manager, and if she had to be arrested, let the manager take care of releasing her from her position, and go with the cops with tape in hand and stand by her. It was handled badly by everyone, but I blame the cop more for abusing his power. He treated her like she was a known felon with a weapon and was protecting his life or something. C'mon man, that's just retardation in the making.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time) A lesson that cost the city 60 thousand.

What the fuck... that's one that needs to be taught to anyone that decides to get stupid with an office because they didn't break the law. That's the ticket.
Read the bolded part. It makes all the difference in the world. No it doesn't. You also said you'd have advocated her being cracked upside the head because she was, in your words, "a loud mouthed bitch". At least keep it real, Dave.

[Skirmisher]

Detective Dave needs no such information from a petty manager.

Detective Dave knows the truth!

Originally posted by Landrion


Dave, do you really want a society that would run like that?[/quote]
Of course not, but people here blow things way out of proportion, so why not play along.



There was really no reason for him to be pepper spraying her. In the long term the event just makes it look to a lot of viewers that the police are assholes and cost the taxpayers money. God knows, Im not saying the cops should kiss people's asses. Thats not feasible. But I dont want cops smacking people around that arent physcially resisting arrest either.

I disagree, he had reason to use the pepper spray on her. She resisted arrest, be it physical or nonphysical, she should have gone with him as he ordered her to. His being cleared of any wrong doing is proff of that.

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Dave]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

The girl was being stupid. I wouldent say he did the right thing. but she got a lesson out of it didnt she. (at the time) A lesson that cost the city 60 thousand.

What the fuck... that's one that needs to be taught to anyone that decides to get stupid with an office because they didn't break the law. That's the ticket.
Read the bolded part. It makes all the difference in the world. No it doesn't. You also said you'd have advocated her being cracked upside the head because she was, in your words, "a loud mouthed bitch". At least keep it real, Dave.

Okay and what is your point? At the time she learned not to be a loud mouthed bitch or she will suffer the consequences.

She did end up getting 60,000 out of it though so that lesson was lost.

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Dave]

[DeV]

Holy shit. :lol:

:shrug:

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Dave
His being cleared of any wrong doing is proff of that.


As DEV has said, don't you think the fact that they gave her $60k admits guilt?

It shows that he was wrong in his attempt to arrest her. It does not show that he disobeyed proper procedures by pepper spraying her, with the knowledge he had at the time.

[DeV]

And to think I laughed even before you'd edited your response.

60k for being maced is not exactly suffering nor is it teaching any useful lesson that needed to be taught.

Dev, your not stupid.
Saying "At the time" in reference to the actual instance excludes what happened afterwords. which was her getting 60k.

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Dave]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
Dev, your not stupid.
I'm only sorry I can't return the compliment, Dave.

p.s. I understand everything you've posted thus far in this thread.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Dave

...

Okay and what is your point? At the time she learned not to be a loud mouthed bitch or she will suffer the consequences.
...

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Dave]

But Dave you fit that criteria and no one has craacked you across the face.......oh...i forgot....

[Artha]

Anyone who acts like that towards a police officer deserves the pepper spray, in the right or not.

[Brattt8525]

As much as the cop was on a power trip the girl was on a fuck you attitude. Whatever happened to respect for authority? swearing the way she did, resisting arrest and her general combative attitude were as uncalled for as his.

He did warn her, he did say your under arrest <warrented or not> That does not give you the right to say FUCK you cop blah blah blah. That kind of shit will get just what she got. :shrug:

[DeV]

I'm glad she got some money out of this. Very. I bet he learned his lesson.

[CrystalTears]

Anyone who acts like that towards a police officer deserves the pepper spray, in the right or not.


As much as the cop was on a power trip the girl was on a fuck you attitude. Whatever happened to respect for authority? swearing the way she did, resisting arrest and her general combative attitude were as uncalled for as his.

After seeing it a few more times and mulling it over, as unfortunate as the situation was, I have to agree with them because they're right. Even though he was wrong, she was still resisting arrest, and insulting an officer has never worked, so I don't know why people feel that they can get away with it. They shouldn't. As much of a shmuck as he may be, he's still an officer of the law and needs to be respected. Not for him as an individual, but because of the power he has.

I just don't like to see people abuse that power and barging into the restaurant irritated me. But I can see how her resisting arrest would cause him to spray her. No one ever wants to get arrested, but if you know you're innocent, the best scenario would be to just go along with the arrest so that you can laugh at the cops later when you're released, and then sue the cop for being a dick. Heh.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
As much as the cop was on a power trip the girl was on a fuck you attitude. Whatever happened to respect for authority? swearing the way she did, resisting arrest and her general combative attitude were as uncalled for as his.

Firstly, she is a child.
Secondly, where I come from, we run along the general principle that respect is earned, not demanded.
That fucking wanker in the uniform, called her a liar and a thief, he then BYPASSED proper procedure by dealing with her himself when he should have been speaking with the manager, and behaved atrociously towards A CHILD.
How much respect do you think he deserves?


He did warn her, he did say your under arrest <warrented or not> That does not give you the right to say FUCK you cop blah blah blah. That kind of shit will get just what she got. :shrug:

Only if the cop that you are dealing with is a fucking disgrace to the uniform he is wearing.
Any decent copper would have dealt with that whole situation without coming close to using ANY violence whatsoever.

You are pretty fucking damning about a kid who was wrongfully accused of stealing and maced in the face for NO REASON WHATSOEVER.

You're a strange one for sure.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by HarmNone]

[ElanthianSiren]

I don't think he gave her much choice to be pleasant. He barged in with "WHERE'S MY MONEY!!!???", not "I think you may have made an error with my change."

He got as good as he gave.

-M

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by DeV
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY ALERT.

If you're pulling out the "Innocent until proven guilty" card, I'm pulling out the "Resisting arrest" card.

The cop was wrong. She was wrong. End of story. You've got no arguement in pulling that card.

I'm glad to know you would take things sitting down if you were arrested for not breaking any laws. ;)

Sure I have an argument, he said "Come out the squad car." She said "Nuh uh! I ain't goin' no where!?"

He said "I'm going to have to pepper spray you." She said "No you aint!"

So say someone wrongly accused you of something, and the police came. The officer wanted to bring you down to the station for questioning. You're going to punch him in the face because you're innocent?

I'm not going to resist arrest if I know I'm innocent.

If that was a male approximately the same age walking down a busy street, and the officer 'thought' he saw him pick someone's pocket, or reach into a purse...what would be his proper reaction if it was an underage male that said "Nuh uh! You ain't takin' me anywhere?!"

[Back]

The cop should have had his badge and gun taken away and suspended.

[ElanthianSiren]

This may just be me, but if I was in a situation as a police officer where I was THAT emotional (to the point of screaming and physical force) about a case of petty theft, that would tell me it was time to pass the case to someone who could act more level-headed about it.

This guy took "justice" into his own hands and hid behind his badge and acted a bully. The girl may have learned something, but I doubt he did. Too bad that 60k didn't come from his salary.

-M

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I don't think he gave her much choice to be pleasant. He barged in with "WHERE'S MY MONEY!!!???", not "I think you may have made an error with my change."

He got as good as he gave.

-M

Well.... she was swearing from the second she was asked about the $20. As soon as she saw that he was a cop, she cared one iota about respect. She started off nasty.

I'm not condoning AT ALL for how the cop behaved, but she made the situation 100% worse by disobeying.

You respect cops at all times. This isn't about respecing elders or parents. This is about respecting the law. As long as he has a badge and a gun, you respect his ability to take your ass to the station, innocent or not.

Thank you, some people finally with some sense.
It's okay CT you can say you agreed with me too ya know.

[ElanthianSiren]

I agree CT. You should respect the badge, but the badge should not give a person the ability to act like the remnants of an assplode.

One thing I asked myself too was if she had not acted up, would she still have gotten the 60k? Did she know she was being taped, provoke for gain? We can't know. Certainly, the whole thing would have been much less dramatic without that.

I have however seen Grand Rapids PD subdue students at anti-war protests, and it was definitely not that brutal, though the students were shouting every bit as hard. That is why I'm coming down harsh on the cop, though I can see where she was at fault as well.

He's a grown man. She's a 17 year old kid. A cop needs to be an exemplary role model IMO, as they carry as much authority as you have mentioned. They need to do it better and cleaner than others. They set the standard by which law enforcement is judged in a community.

-M

[CrystalTears]

No, the badge doesn't grant him the right to be a jerk. You're right and I agree with that. I never said that anything he did was right. I can't STAND that he barged in and took over the situation the way he did.

However... she was still rude to him. She insulted him, she resisted arrest, she mouthed off to him and everyone else, saying she didn't care because she doesn't like cops. It was just a dumb move on her part. For all we know, the attitude presented by her caused her to get less than what a stable person would have gotten.

And shaddap Dave. :P I don't agree with you completely because you wanted her beaten for just the attitude, and that's not cool.

[Edited on 8/3/2005 by CrystalTears]

I didnt mean that seriously, im not that bad/mean of a person.

[Warriorbird]

I asked some of my wife's coworkers (she does low level administrative management for a public safety department, which has cops) about the situation. One of the younger officers had seen it and said that the officer would've been slammed internally for procedure violations. Nothing career-ending, but he said he thought with the videotaped evidence and all he'd be getting something nasty on his records, not firing-worthy, but not exactly benificial to promotion.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
And what bothers me is that if a regular person off the street had the same thing happen to them, if they walked in and demanded their money from her and threaten her, HE would get arrested. Why is it okay that this asshat cop come in and boss around just because he's a cop? That's that bullshit.

Because a cop has the authority to bring someone into custody if they're under suspicion of committing a crime????

Just a shot in the dark.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Nieninque
he then BYPASSED proper procedure by dealing with her himself when he should have been speaking with the manager, and behaved atrociously towards A CHILD.
How much respect do you think he deserves?

To be fair, the tape was elapsed at several points. We don't know how long he talked to the manager or what he did before going to arrest her.

Also keep in mind, this is a manager at a fast food place, not a regional manager of Goldman Sachs.

[Skirmisher]

That officer is deserving of exactly zero respect.

He is a bully with a badge.

The young girl is guilty of one thing and that is not knowing the best way to deal with an asshole cop on a power trip.

[Nieninque]

:yeahthat:

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
>>>You are pretty fucking damning about a kid who was wrongfully accused of stealing and maced in the face for NO REASON WHATSOEVER. <<<

Nien I have missed you making stupid replies to something I post. THANKS!

Nothing stupid about that.
You slated this girl for doing nothing in particular wrong aside from objecting to being called a liar and a thief.



I said he was on a power trip, and that she was combative bad combination period. Also I statred that if you wanted to swear, resist arrest AND disregard his warning her of pepper spraying then well right or wrong you will get what he warned you of.

No...you said "whatever happened to respect for authority?" or words to that effect.
He was a wanker ABUSING his authority. He deserves contempt, not respect...and that's what HE got. He shouldnt fuicking cry about that, and it certainly doesnt give him the right to wrongfully arrest a child using excessive and unnecessary force.

One of those things that make me glad I am living in the UK.


Respect? your talking about respect?

Actually, you were talking about respect. I responded. Keep up dear.


ROFLMAO. As far as your opinion of me being a strange one, well I happen to think your a snot nosed little troll so there is no love lost.
Awww boofuckinghoo.
Bratty doesnt like me.
At least I dont suck up to people who insult my own flesh and blood.
Fuck off.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by HarmNone]

[Alfster]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
That officer is deserving of exactly zero respect.

He is a bully with a badge.

The young girl is guilty of one thing and that is not knowing the best way to deal with an asshole cop on a power trip.

You've got that right for sure, and come on...it was only 10 bucks

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by DeV
I'm glad she got some money out of this. Very. I bet he learned his lesson.

I hope he learned his lesson. I hope she learned her lesson, as well. If she'd controlled her reaction, she may have found herself in receipt of more than the 60K she ended up with.

[Alfster]

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by DeV
I'm glad she got some money out of this. Very. I bet he learned his lesson.

I hope he learned his lesson. I hope she learned her lesson, as well. If she'd controlled her reaction, she may have found herself in receipt of more than the 60K she ended up with.

nah, she just needed a better lawyer

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Alfster


nah, she just needed a better lawyer

You got that right.

Or a baton upside the head.

[Skirmisher]

Ah Dave's true colors make another appearance.

Please do expound upon how she deserves to get a baton upside the head for not breaking the law Detective Dave.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Skirmisher]

[Artha]

Because she didn't go with the police officer. Fuck her.

[Skirmisher]

You mean the neanderthal impoersonating a law enforcement officer who accused her of a crime that did not exist and then pepper sprayed her should have then taken his baton and beat her with that as well?

My goodness.

Anyone who thinks that is horribly mistaken.

Because she is a dumb loudmouthed bitch who didnt do what she was told by the cop.

As I have said about 10 times in the tread already.

Edit: I have little patience for stupid people like that who do stupid shit.

First of all she should have been fired for the type of language she was using in the work place. Second YOU DO NOT YELL AT POLIECE unless you want to get a baton over your head.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Dave]

I can only imagine what would happen to me if i was to talk to an authority figure like that. Most likely hours of physical pain, followed by 45 days with no pay and work hours from 6am until 10pm 7 days a week. That is if I dont get that plus jail time.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Dave]

[Edaarin]

What about people who post stupid shit?

[Skirmisher]

We can only pray Dave.

Originally posted by Edaarin
What about people who post stupid shit?
I dont know what happens to you when you post?

(that was to easy)

[Skirmisher]

Too easy for you Dave?

Somehow I doubt it.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Too easy for you Dave?

Somehow I doubt it.

Really skirm, why do you have to be a bitch so much lately? You were doing so good up until a month ago or so. Its not only with me either, its all across the boards.

[SpunGirl]

Every person in that video comes off sounding ignorant and fucking retarded, except maybe the manager.

My favorite moments:

"I don't like police, they shouldn'ta took my brotha to jail!"

"Your momma don't have nuttin' to do with this!"

-K

[Kitsun]

Just a couple of points...

The cop wasn't reaching over to grab the girl by the hair. It looked like he removed her drive-by headset.

Male cops tend not to touch females. If the females don't come along, cops don't wrestle with them because they get sued for sexual harassment.

People are supposed to follow an officer's orders. Whether or not they like the order. Whether or not they like the cop. They're law enforcers, not a debate society. He gave an order, followed by warnings. They're not your friends and they sure as hell ain't fucking with you. Haul your ass in line.

I'm not sure what proper procedure is in that situation but since the officer was the victim, I'm thinking he should've called in another unit to handle the case. Which he might've done if she'd gone to the squad car.

[Artha]

:yeahthat:

[DeV]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
So say someone wrongly accused you of something, and the police came. The officer wanted to bring you down to the station for questioning. You're going to punch him in the face because you're innocent?
It was personal. It was his money and not someone else's he was accusing her of taking. The manager confirmed that there were no twenties in the drawer. He could have continued his investigation at the scene or waited for backup or even her parents to arrive. He flat out accused her of something she was already cleared for by her manager. Why should she at that point trust and respect the police officer that insists she did something she did not do. While on camera no less!

Come on now... we aren't even talking about an adult mind here. This is a kid, clearly she is behaving like one, and to demand she be arrested when the officer has already shown extreme bias in this case and not listened to reason, ridiculous.

Her actions do appear to have provoked him to go above and beyond what was necessary. That is undeniable.

[Artha]

He flat out accused her of something she was already cleared for by her manager.
Yep, because it's impossible that she slipped that 20 into her pockets.


Why should she at that point trust and respect the police officer that insists she did something she did not do.
Because he is a fucking police officer and you listen to them when they tell you to get in the car.

[DeV]

Great responses but you make this too easy for me. Why, because she still didn't do the crime.

Sorry, but you have to earn your respect with me, Police Officer or not. I respect the job they have to do, if I break the law I respect that my ass may be arrested and I may go to jail. I don't respect assholes who abuse their authority, no matter what kind of uniform they have on. That's just me.

[SpunGirl]

They both acted like idiots, IMO. And for both of them, it was due to preconceived notions about who the other one was. I daresay his were motivated by race, and perhaps income group. Hers were motivated by his occupation, maybe his race too.

Neither of them judged the other based on the situation at hand. Yes, she should have gone with him quietly, knowing she would be cleared. And he should not have been so quick to accuse her, instead maybe taking a second to consider that he could have been wrong.

-K

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Artha]

It doesn't matter if you respect them or not. They are the police officers and you listen when they tell you you're under arrest. It isn't up for debate, unless you want to argue with (in this case) a can of mace.

:clap:

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Kitsun
Just a couple of points...

The cop wasn't reaching over to grab the girl by the hair. It looked like he removed her drive-by headset.

Male cops tend not to touch females. If the females don't come along, cops don't wrestle with them because they get sued for sexual harassment.

People are supposed to follow an officer's orders. Whether or not they like the order. Whether or not they like the cop. They're law enforcers, not a debate society. He gave an order, followed by warnings. They're not your friends and they sure as hell ain't fucking with you. Haul your ass in line.

I'm not sure what proper procedure is in that situation but since the officer was the victim, I'm thinking he should've called in another unit to handle the case. Which he might've done if she'd gone to the squad car.

Bingo.. if your are told to come with an officer and that you are under arrest and you show your ass no matter what the fuck you think it is time for a beat down.

[Skirmisher]

Really? I don't think so.

Get any recognized law enforcement officer to state that for the record.

I'll save you some time.

You wont because it's illegal.

[Atlanteax]

Let's see... the Cop drove away from the Driver's window and then walked inside to "discuss the situation" and then attempted to make the rest.

I agree that the Cop was the primary individual at fault, as he could had easily walked back outside to his patrol car (as it was quite unlikely that she was going to take off, if the exits are near the front where he was parked, nevermind if she did, the manager can give out info to the Cop where to find her residence) and then called for Backup.

Then when Backup arrives, put her under arrest.

.

The woman also obviously could had exercised a lot more restraint. However, I'm disappointed in the Cop for letting her attitude get to him, and causing him to lose his cool (ie he was probably going to call for backup, and then decided that he was going to "deal with the situation" right then).

There is no way anyone should expect to get away with screeching like a banshee at a Cop.

.

For only $60k, I think the City saved itself a major headache.

As for the Police overall, this is the endemic problem with "bad apples". As the saying goes, "it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch" especially as far as the overly political correct media/public is.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Really? I don't think so.

Get any recognized law enforcement officer to state that for the record.

I'll save you some time.

You wont because it's illegal.
No its illegal to use to much force, at the point where she is resisting arrest they are allowed to use force, and from there by escalating means. As I said a few times, he only went to step one.
HI I am a recognized law enforcement personnel nice to meet you.


[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Dave]

[Terminator X]

The few times I've watched Cops, when an officer threatens to use mace, they will never, ever back down from their warning. Seriously.. something to the effect of, "say another word and I will mace you," could be uttered by the officer and immediately they are put in the mindset in which they undoubtably are in the right, pretty much moments after they vocalize the command, no less. What almost always does not matter, unfortunately, is if the alleged perpetrator's demeanor becomes ten-thousand times less tempermental...

...Which is probablematic, because this guy was completely robotic without the use of any brain cells whatsoever, throughout the duration of this "financial" dispute. Damn.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Terminator X]

[Delirium]

If anyone wants to mace me for $60k i'd readily volunteer.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
No its illegal to use to much force, at the point where she is resisting arrest they are allowed to use force, and from there by escalating means. As I said a few times, he only went to step one.
HI I am a recognized law enforcement personnel nice to meet you.


[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Dave]

Firstly Dave, it is really bugging me when you type "to" instead of "too". you do it all the time. If you mean "as well" there are two o's.

Secondly, what do you think were the reasons why she was awarded 60k?

I'm taking an educated guess that IT WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS SUBJECTED TO TOO MUCH FORCE.

[Ravenstorm]

Maybe false arrest as well. And seriously, does anyone think that if that had been some white anglo-saxon protestant it would even have gotten to the point where the cop wanted to arrest her?

The girl was obviously stupid but the cop was just as much, if not more, in the wrong and is supposed to know better on top of it.

Raven

[Artha]

Secondly, what do you think were the reasons why she was awarded 60k?

I'm taking an educated guess that IT WAS BECAUSE SHE WAS SUBJECTED TO TOO MUCH FORCE.
I'm guessing it's because she was cleared of wrong doing on video. If someone's not going with the cop, from what little I know mace/tasers are the next resort, rather than scuffling with the person.


And seriously, does anyone think that if that had been some white anglo-saxon protestant it would even have gotten to the point where the cop wanted to arrest her?
Quite probably. I bet police officers get short changed at fast food restaurants all the time, or have their food spit in or whatever. And I don't think the sadly prevalent "Fuck the police" attitude is limited to one race or another.

[Warriorbird]

"HI I am a recognized law enforcement personnel nice to meet you. "

Here I thought you were in counter-terrorism, not a MP.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
And seriously, does anyone think that if that had been some white anglo-saxon protestant it would even have gotten to the point where the cop wanted to arrest her?

It depends if the white anglo-saxon Protestant was an asshole who decided to yell, scream, and ignore what he was being told

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Artha

He flat out accused her of something she was already cleared for by her manager.
Yep, because it's impossible that she slipped that 20 into her pockets.


Actually, I watched the video again. She clearly puts the money in the drawer. In the time til the cop reports the "theft", she walks out into the front room. You can't make bills appear out of thin air, so there's no way she could have stolen it as a 20 is a single bill (the cop clearly says he gave her *a* twenty, which is 1 bill).

If he'd given her a 20, there would have been a 20 in the drawer, so as for that, it's physically impossible.

-M
edited to add: I was exploring the possibility that maybe he gave her 2 10s.

[Edited on Thu, August th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Kitsun]

You're focused on the wrong time frame for what Artha is referring to, ElanthianSiren.

The officer came inside to her area because of his suspecion at the time. Unfortunately, he didn't seem to have access to the video tape then.

She was cleared by her manager that checked the drawer but not her pockets. With the video, yeah you can tell.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by DeV
Sorry, but you have to earn your respect with me, Police Officer or not. I respect the job they have to do, if I break the law I respect that my ass may be arrested and I may go to jail. I don't respect assholes who abuse their authority, no matter what kind of uniform they have on. That's just me.

Innocent or guilty in reality doesn't have much bearing on whether or not they can arrest you. If an officer believes you are a suspect in a crime, he can arrest you. The verdict of guilt or innocence is determined later.

I think she got the 60k because it was the decent thing to do. She suddenly got pounced with hospital bills and I don't think she's covered by McDonalds insurance. It was a problem on both ends. Any jury watching the video would've been as torn as the group here, debating on which side was more out of line.

On another note: Has anyone ever seen or heard of mouthing off, being angry, arrogant, swearing at an officer actually getting him off your case? I've seen people get away by using sweet talk, charm, reason but they NEVER let you walk if you confront them.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by DeV
Sorry, but you have to earn your respect with me, Police Officer or not. I respect the job they have to do, if I break the law I respect that my ass may be arrested and I may go to jail. I don't respect assholes who abuse their authority, no matter what kind of uniform they have on. That's just me.

And it's pieces of shit like the girl in the video that cause police to be skeptical and make their job harder. How many people in jail claim they're innocent?

Let's not defend the little inbred retard here. Her manager calmly approaches her about it and she immediately goes into 'battle mode' stating why she doesn't like cops. WHO DOES THIS?! What normal, rational, intelligent and successful person does this besides people in the music industry trying to portray an image to sell records?

Her manager should have fired her for her ridiculous reaction and dropping F-bombs in front of customers.

People get arrested for suspicion of a crime all the time. That's what most arrests are! And I can't believe you said the cop could have waited for her parents...I mean...are you serious? What do you expect, her mother is going to show up and say "My baby didn't do that!" and the cop is going to let her go? Since when are law enforcement officers (and any public officials for that matter) supposed to waste the taxpayer's time and money by making concessions to people suspected of wrong doing?

[SnatchWrangler]

I'm just curious. To the people defending the drive-thru girl...

If instead of using the pepper spray, the cop grabbed her arm, spun her around, shoved her face into the wall, and hand cuffed her...would that be excessive force? Is it the use of pepper spray that bothers you?

Short of wasting everyone's time by waiting for the girl's mother to arrive (which would accomplish exactly nothing), what step should have been taken after the cop asked her to come out to the patrol car and she refused and continued cursing at him?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Kitsun
On another note: Has anyone ever seen or heard of mouthing off, being angry, arrogant, swearing at an officer actually getting him off your case? I've seen people get away by using sweet talk, charm, reason but they NEVER let you walk if you confront them. No, it's usually guilty people who act that way and know they are going down because they've done what their accused of. In fact, it is an officers duty to not only show restraint, but carry it out with a sound mind and just a tad bit of common sense. I can't expect the same in this girls case. I won't sit here and pretend that she wasn't ghetto as hell and that her family environment didn't play any role in that, per the comment about her brother. She has a poor attitude toward law enforcement in general.

I hold law enforcement to a much higher standard than what was shown by the office though.

[Back]

If some of you don’t believe there are cops that don’t bully/harrass/use unnecessary force, you’ve never met the L.A.P.D.

The chick was a kid for crissakes and probably pissing her pants. She was scared shitless to get locked up so she flipped. Can you blame her? And who in their right mind would short-change a cop so obviously? She told him to strip search her.

So this fastfood fat-ass cop decides to SPRAY HER FACE with pepper spray, a young kid doing her job, even after talking with the manager, over ten lousy bucks. That cop is a fuckstick

[Delirium]

I think the officer was a bit to confrontative. However the reaction of the girl was ridiculous. And yes, i honestly believe that 9 times out of 10 whether you are black white green or blue if you react like that to cops you are going to bite off more than you can chew. Ive seen plenty of videos of white "trash" mouthing off to cops like that and the least ive seen happen is the pepper spray. Most times they are forced to the ground with knees in their back and handcuffs on. Just because one is innocent doesnt mean one can resist arrest.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Backlash
If some of you don’t believe there are cops that don’t bully/harrass/use unnecessary force, you’ve never met the L.A.P.D.

Not saying that they don't, but it still doesn't make it right.


The chick was a kid for crissakes and probably pissing her pants. She was scared shitless to get locked up so she flipped. Can you blame her?

I call bullshit on this one. Going by the video, she didn't care. She was already cursing the second that the $20 bill was mentioned. She said she didn't like cops, didn't give a <bleeeeep!> what he said, and was already disrespecting the cop and the manager. I'm surprised he let her continue working.

Kid or not, if she's old enough to work, she's old enough to know how to behave responsibly. If not, well.. job opening!


And who in their right mind would short-change a cop so obviously? She told him to strip search her.

I thought it was a little funny that she was perfectly fine to allow him to strip search her, but was putting up a fight to go to the station and discuss it. She pushed, he pushed back. He should have had more self-control, but she didn't help matters.


So this fastfood fat-ass cop decides to SPRAY HER FACE with pepper spray, a young kid doing her job, even after talking with the manager, over ten lousy bucks. That cop is a fuckstick

He IS a fuckstick. He's a big asshole for coming in like a gestapo to take in someone for $10. HIS $10. It was personal. He should have been reprimanded at least.

That being said, I still don't think she was an innocent, meek victim though.

[DeV]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
And it's pieces of shit like the girl in the video that cause police to be skeptical and make their job harder. How many people in jail claim they're innocent?I don't know. I'm just looking at this one individual case and basing my judgement off of that. I feel that he made his job unnecessarily harder with his combative attitude at the start. "Where's my money?"


Let's not defend the little inbred retard here. Her manager calmly approaches her about it and she immediately goes into 'battle mode' stating why she doesn't like cops. WHO DOES THIS?! What normal, rational, intelligent and successful person does this besides people in the music industry trying to portray an image to sell records?lol... yes, it's already been stated that the girl is not working with a full deck with the way she was dealing with the officer.



Her manager should have fired her for her ridiculous reaction and dropping F-bombs in front of customers. I agree.


People get arrested for suspicion of a crime all the time. That's what most arrests are! He could have had the drawer counted right then and there to clear up any missunderstanding. I've been short changed when going to the gas station and didn't call the police and demand the girl be arrested. We settled it civily. The cops mindset was already on accusation mode, and she was already on defense mode.

And I can't believe you said the cop could have waited for her parents...I mean...are you serious? When an underage person is suspected of shop-lifting nine times out of ten their parents are called first. At least in Illinois. I don't know what state you are from but people don't get arrested for being suspected of pocketing money from a customer unless its found at the scene that they actually did.
What do you expect, her mother is going to show up and say "My baby didn't do that!" and the cop is going to let her go? The parents would have to be called anyway, SnatchWrangler. It was inevitable. I don't think he should have waited for her mother either. He should have waited for some backup and utilized the other options available at the time.
Since when are law enforcement officers (and any public officials for that matter) supposed to waste the taxpayer's time and money by making concessions to people suspected of wrong doing? That is exactly what he did. Waste tax payers money.

[Kitsun]

I'm sure there are cops out there that use excessive force. I'm not so certain that the video portrayed an example of it.

If you try to summarize the exchange with: a cop pepper sprayed some girl because he thought he got shortchanged then it sounds like excessive force. That really wasn't what happened in reality though, is it?

Because she's a female and a minor, he really didn't have all the options you guys seem to think.

Once she refused to cooperate and go with him, that shut the few 'nice' doors out of the situation.

From that point on: he can't wrestle her to the ground(sexual harassment), he can't strip search her in public(no duh). He didn't want to leave the scene because(if she had stolen the money) she could dispose of the evidence.

What he could do was warn her to follow 'or else.'
She didn't follow. So he did the 'or else'.

She was verbally abusive and failing to comply with a direct order.

And about the mother... if I were the cop, I'd do my best to get the fuck out of dodge ASAP too. Imagine if the daughter and mother were alike? A huge verbal exchange of monumental proportions in public. The mother didn't have anything to do with the scenario. Getting the kid out of the area before someone else comes along to make it a mess is a priority.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by DeV

He could have had the drawer counted right then and there to clear up any missunderstanding. I've been short changed when going to the gas station and didn't call the police and demand the girl be arrested. We settled it civily. The cops mindset was already on accusation mode, and she was already on defense mode.

You're right. But that didn't mean she didn't pocket the difference. Counting the drawer would only prove she didn't make a mistake, not that she didn't pocket the money.


And I can't believe you said the cop could have waited for her parents...I mean...are you serious?
When an underage person is suspected of shop-lifting nine times out of ten their parents are called first.

Yeah...but the parents are typically called by the store manager/owner instead of calling the police. Police don't show up on a scene and call someone's parents in. If a crime is committed/suspected and the cop is made aware of it, a police report is filed. She gets brought in for questioning if it can't be resolved at the store, and then her parents are called. If she's a minor, I guess they'd bring her in for questioning, and call a parent/guardian in to sit with her while they question her.



At least in Illinois. I don't know what state you are from but people don't get arrested for being suspected of pocketing money from a customer unless its found at the scene that they actually did.

She comes off a pretty defensive, which leads to the appearence of coming off as being guilty.


That is exactly what he did. Waste tax payers money.

I'm thankful she didn't get more. I'm sure to a couple of her peers, it just gives them a reason to act out. I'm sure many people who would have reacted the way she initially did see this as a victory. Hooray! A victory for the clinically stupid. ::sigh::

[DeV]

You're sure there are cops out there that use excessive force ... Well, there most certainly are. I take it you've never seen it happen.

His demands were out of the ordinary from the start. Why would someone who's already working at Wendy's try to short change a cop of all people. She had plenty of people to short change all day long but she waits until this cop comes along so she can stick it to the man and pocket ten whole dollars. Riiiight.

The girl was held accountable for her actions toward the cop when she was pepper sprayed and arrested. With the videotape, we understand why it had to even go that far. My point is that there were other ways in which to handle the situation initially. I'm not defending her shitty attitude as I've already said.

With the situation over and done with, the cop is being held responsible for his lack of forethought and common sense since the unfortunate event was caught on tape.

[DeV]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
You're right. But that didn't mean she didn't pocket the difference. Counting the drawer would only prove she didn't make a mistake, not that she didn't pocket the money.If she pocketed the difference a simple count of her drawer would have made all the difference at the time. It was the one thing that needed to be done to be 100% certain. He should have suggested it.

Yeah...but the parents are typically called by the store manager/owner instead of calling the police. Police don't show up on a scene and call someone's parents in. If a crime is committed/suspected and the cop is made aware of it, a police report is filed. She gets brought in for questioning if it can't be resolved at the store, and then her parents are called. If she's a minor, I guess they'd bring her in for questioning, and call a parent/guardian in to sit with her while they question her.Point well made. Like I said, he had a plethora of options at his disposal. I chalk it up to not thinking clearly because he was directly involved which automatically adds bias to the situation. Waiting for backup would have also been a viable option.



She comes off a pretty defensive, which leads to the appearence of coming off as being guilty.

He comes off as pretty certain in his acusations, which is probably a direct result of her extreme defensiveness. I think they cancelled each other out from the start.


I'm thankful she didn't get more. I'm sure to a couple of her peers, it just gives them a reason to act out. I'm sure many people who would have reacted the way she initially did see this as a victory. Hooray! A victory for the clinically stupid. ::sigh:: I was surprised that she got anything to begin with. She didn't need more, in my opinion. It sucks that the taxpayers had to eat that money up in the end.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Kitsun

Innocent or guilty in reality doesn't have much bearing on whether or not they can arrest you. If an officer believes you are a suspect in a crime, he can arrest you. The verdict of guilt or innocence is determined later.



Innocent or guilty DOES play into whether someone should be arrested.

I don't think anyone is going to try to say that if police officer arrests 100 people in a row who are all found innocent that he will not be let go or at the least reprimanded/demoted?

When there are immediate ways of eliminating a person as a suspect, you utilize them.

ALL fast food chains have video of at least the cash registers, if Deputy Dog here was using his brain instead of his muscles he would have remembered that.

He could have asked to see the video, he could have asked to have a female officer come there and search her pockets.

He COULD have done alot of things in a case where ALL the available evidence pointed to her being innocent, but ONLY because he was a cop on a huge ego trip he decided that she was going to jail.

No, no respect for this punk wannabe cop.

He was 100% wrong.

This should seriously be used as a training video for all rookie cops as to what NOT to do.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
I'm just curious. To the people defending the drive-thru girl...

If instead of using the pepper spray, the cop grabbed her arm, spun her around, shoved her face into the wall, and hand cuffed her...would that be excessive force? Is it the use of pepper spray that bothers you?

Short of wasting everyone's time by waiting for the girl's mother to arrive (which would accomplish exactly nothing), what step should have been taken after the cop asked her to come out to the patrol car and she refused and continued cursing at him?

I already noted what I thought the cop should have done. He was too emotionally invested in the situation. It should have been handled by another officer, even a friend of his would have been fine. Police do all have radios in their squad cars.

-M

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

He COULD have done alot of things in a case where ALL the available evidence pointed to her being innocent, but ONLY because he was a cop on a huge ego trip he decided that she was going to jail.

Yeah, except the whole fact her swearing and him and her combative nature sure doesn't make her look all that innocent. As I said earlier...if a police officer, or any authority-type figure for that matter...accuses you of wrong doing, and you are innocent, are you going to take a swing at them?

I can't believe you're defending this moron so strongly. Did a cop shoot your dog or something?

Was he wrong? Yes. Did he go overboard? Possibly. Was he prompted to act when she failed to comply and was given ample warning? Most certainly.

[Leetahkin]

Let's not forget about the manager. He had a responsibility to keep order in his store, which he did not do.

He should have immediately had another employee take over at the girls station with a new till. Then take the girl, her till, and the officer to, lets say, his office.

The mgr. should have helped do something to diffuse the situation, whether it was to tell his employee to cooperate with the officer, etc. She's young, she needed an adult's guidance that wasn't accusing her of stealing.

[SnatchWrangler]

On an interesting note...I just got this email from a buddy who's a state trooper in Maryland.

"whats up. i got to spray a guy last night with pepper spray. it was good times. the guy just got done beating his wife, then he wouldn't get in the car when we arrested him, and he tried to kick us multiple times. so i asked him do you want to get sprayed. he egged me on and said he wasnt afraid. so i sprayed him and he dropped like a ton of bricks crying like a little girl. haha. stupid white trash redneck"

Sounds like an excerpt from Cops.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
On an interesting note...I just got this email from a buddy who's a state trooper in Maryland.

"whats up. i got to spray a guy last night with pepper spray. it was good times. the guy just got done beating his wife, then he wouldn't get in the car when we arrested him, and he tried to kick us multiple times. so i asked him do you want to get sprayed. he egged me on and said he wasnt afraid. so i sprayed him and he dropped like a ton of bricks crying like a little girl. haha. stupid white trash redneck"

Sounds like an excerpt from Cops.

I'm sorry, but that is fucked up. Spraying because he was egged on and saying he wasn't afraid.

I could see if he kept trying to hit the officer, or resisting... but for the perp to get sprayed for taunting the officer with words is a little pathetic. IMO.

The officer needs to show more restraint than that.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Yeah, except the whole fact her swearing and him and her combative nature sure doesn't make her look all that innocent. As I said earlier...if a police officer, or any authority-type figure for that matter...accuses you of wrong doing, and you are innocent, are you going to take a swing at them?

I can't believe you're defending this moron so strongly. Did a cop shoot your dog or something?

Was he wrong? Yes. Did he go overboard? Possibly. Was he prompted to act when she failed to comply and was given ample warning? Most certainly.

No, I would not take a swing at an officer, and neither did she.

And I am defending her so strongly for two reaons.

1) Because HE is the reason all the good cops out there have a job that is already inherently difficult made geometrically more so. One bad apple does spoil the bunch and it will take a whole lot of effort on the part of that police departments community relations to overcome this particular debacle.

and

2) Because the fact is that she was innocent and some people here not only applauded this innocent girl being maced but suggested she be beaten as well.

That is more than simply incredibly dissapointing, it's disgusting.

[Terminator X]

Right before he sprays her, she makes a sort of abrupt, what-did-I-do gesture with a hand.

My personal opinion about this is since it is almost positive that she was not going to pull a gat out of a Big Mac, I am pretty sure that a certain mindset of the officer's kicked in well before he ever set foot inside of her workplace. This mindset almost certainly was not formed on the notions of her being female or a fast-food worker, but something else.

[CrystalTears]

Um, if the officer was kicked, perp refused to cooperate, told him that he would be sprayed, continued to behave badly, and the officer complied, so he's wrong? How much bullshit does an officer have to take just because he's a cop?

Would you have preferred if the guy was wrestled to the ground and handcuffed? I don't know why people feel so threatened by the spray when it's actually one of the lesser evils.

I'd like someone (should they get pulled over speeding) to tell the officer to fuck off, see if it gets them a warning. :D

[CrystalTears]

2) Because the fact is that she was innocent and some people here not only applauded this innocent girl being maced but suggested she be beaten as well.

Since he didn't know whether she was innocent or guilty yet, she needed to comply with his orders. YES, he was going over the line, but she was STILL being uncooperative with a cop. Just go with him and then let him crumble when he's proven wrong. Why make the situation worse by acting like a guilty person?

[DeV]

What does swearing at an officer have anything to do with determining a persons guilt or their need to be arrested? If he had done his job, properly, alot of things could have been avoided that day.

Being able to compose oneself when a suspect is swearing while at the same time denying guilt would be a plus in attempting to calm the matter before the situation gets out of hand. His attitude going into the restaurant caused a completely opposite reaction.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
then he wouldn't get in the car when we arrested him, and he tried to kick us multiple times.


I'm sorry, but that is fucked up. Spraying because he was egged on and saying he wasn't afraid.

I could see if he kept trying to hit the officer, or resisting... but for the perp to get sprayed for taunting the officer with words is a little pathetic. IMO.

The officer needs to show more restraint than that.

I'm sorry, what exactly was your argument?

Fuck it...I think anyone that beats their wife should atleast experience the joys of being maced. Screw whether he took a swing at a cop after the fact.

[CrystalTears]

Because swearing at an officer when he's trying to deal with a possible crime makes the situation worse.

I'm not saying that he should just arrest everyone that swears at him, but if he's questioning someone and all they do is swear and yell, then I could understand if they feel they have no alternative but to go to the police station and have another officer handle it.

[Brattt8525]

>>If he had done his job, properly, alot of things could have been avoided that day. <<<

And if she hadn't acted like ghetto trash and resisted any attempt at him taking her aside to talk to him then he wouldn't have resorted to macing her.

I still don't agree with the macing, but I also don't agree with resisting arrest swearing and talking trash.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Um, if the officer was kicked, perp refused to cooperate, told him that he would be sprayed, continued to behave badly, and the officer complied, so he's wrong? How much bullshit does an officer have to take just because he's a cop?

Would you have preferred if the guy was wrestled to the ground and handcuffed? I don't know why people feel so threatened by the spray when it's actually one of the lesser evils.

I'd like someone (should they get pulled over speeding) to tell the officer to fuck off, see if it gets them a warning. :D

I got busy at work and didn't reread before posting. I agree for the most part with what you said.

However, had the email said that the guy still refused to comply to the officers thus getting sprayed, I wouldn't have responded at all. Saying he wasn't afraid to getting sprayed is not enough, to me. It's all how people word things, and how people interpret it.

[DeV]

When the crime involves a direct accusation by the Police Officer because he is the alleged VICTIM, then he is as much to blame for her actions as he is for his own flawed actions. He should not been the primary officer to handle any sort of questioning considering he was the one victimized, right...

Oh, and you said he was questioning her. LOL, "Where's my money?"

That's some damn great investigative questioning going on there!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
>>If he had done his job, properly, alot of things could have been avoided that day. <<<

And if she hadn't acted like ghetto trash and resisted any attempt at him taking her aside to talk to him then he wouldn't have resorted to macing her.

I still don't agree with the macing, but I also don't agree with resisting arrest swearing and talking trash. I thought I covered this one already. You can re-read a number of my posts for clarification on the exact thing you just stated.

[ElanthianSiren]

And say she had remained calm and stated, "In your wallet" would she then have been mouthing off just as badly?

What could she say that would not have inherently made her guilty here when an officer says, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!???!!"

"In my till??" -- Doesn't that admit to the crime?

"In your wallet?" -- I think I covered that one.

"I have it!" -- wait no, cuz she didn't, and that admits guilt.


-M

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Because swearing at an officer when he's trying to deal with a possible crime makes the situation worse.

I'm not saying that he should just arrest everyone that swears at him, but if he's questioning someone and all they do is swear and yell, then I could understand if they feel they have no alternative but to go to the police station and have another officer handle it.

Well one would hope that they don't arrest anyone who swears at them, as I'm pretty darned sure there were decioins a few years ago saying that arresting someone for swearing at a police officer was not legal.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by Nobody Cares

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
then he wouldn't get in the car when we arrested him, and he tried to kick us multiple times.


I'm sorry, but that is fucked up. Spraying because he was egged on and saying he wasn't afraid.

I could see if he kept trying to hit the officer, or resisting... but for the perp to get sprayed for taunting the officer with words is a little pathetic. IMO.

The officer needs to show more restraint than that.

I'm sorry, what exactly was your argument?

Fuck it...I think anyone that beats their wife should atleast experience the joys of being maced. Screw whether he took a swing at a cop after the fact.

See my response above.

And, last I knew, police officers are not judge, jury and executioner.
Yes, beating someone is appalling, but it does not give a police officer or anyone else the right to beat the shit out of someone, or even mace them to make them feel pain.. just because of what they are accused of.

[Skirmisher]

Ah, here is the case i think I am remembering.

Swearing at police is criticism, not crime < --- click for link to actual article (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/08/08/MN191833.DTL)

- Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 8, 2001

Swearing at a police officer may be disrespectful, but it's not criminal.

So said a federal appeals court yesterday in a pair of rulings overturning disorderly conduct convictions arising from unrelated incidents at Yosemite National Park.

In one case, the court said Nolan Poocha was exercising free speech and wasn't threatening violence or inciting a riot when he gave a profane two-word response to a park ranger during a 1999 disturbance.

"Criticism of the police, profane or otherwise, is not a crime," said Judge Stephen Reinhardt in the 2-to-1 ruling throwing out Poocha's disorderly conduct conviction.

Poocha's attorney, Oliver Vallejo, said the decision "keeps police officers in check" and protects the right to protest.

In the other case, a different three-judge panel unanimously overturned Chad Taylor's conviction for using the same two-word expletive to a ranger who poked him awake in his cabin in March 2000.

Without discussing freedom of speech, the court said regulations forbidding disorderly conduct in national parks applied only to conduct in public places.

The cases follow a 60-year trend in rulings restricting the government's power to punish people for allegedly disruptive speech.

The Supreme Court ruled in 1942 that freedom of speech did not protect so- called fighting words -- those that "tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" -- but later cases have so narrowed that category that it now barely exists. As the high court observed in 1971, when it overturned the conviction of a man who showed up in a Los Angeles courtroom in a jacket bearing a vulgar slogan about the draft: "One man's vulgarity is another's lyric."

The federal disorderly conduct regulations, modeled on the Supreme Court's fighting words case, were used to prosecute Poocha, a park hotel chef, in a case that began when rangers tried to arrest a bicyclist outside the Curry Village Lodge in Yosemite.

Officers said Poocha, part of a group that was shouting at them, had been told to leave and instead clenched his fists, stuck out his chest and yelled an obscenity.

The crowd eventually calmed down, and Poocha left. He was later convicted in a nonjury trial and sentenced to 10 days in custody.

In overturning the disorderly conduct conviction, the appeals court said police were expected to put up with criticism, and profanity, without violence.

The court also said the words Poocha used were not likely to cause a riot.

Dissenting Judge A. Wallace Tashima said Poocha's words and "hostile and defiant gestures" could well have endangered officers who were facing a hostile crowd.

E-mail Bob Egelko at begelko@sfchronicle.com.

Page A - 2
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/08/08/MN191833.DTL

[Delirium]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
And say she had remained calm and stated, "In your wallet" would she then have been mouthing off just as badly?

What could she say that would not have inherently made her guilty here when an officer says, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!???!!"

"In my till??" -- Doesn't that admit to the crime?

"In your wallet?" -- I think I covered that one.

"I have it!" -- wait no, cuz she didn't, and that admits guilt.


-M

"You are mistaken sir. You gave me a $10 bill. If you would like there is a camera in store watching the til you will see you didnt hand me a $20 bill and i didnt pocket any of the money. There is no $20 bill in the til."

That would have worked a whole lot better than yelling and screaming and antagonizing. Everyone is saying this is a child, was that stated somewhere? I didnt read the whole thread. Id assume you have to be at least 16 to work there.

[Skirmisher]

16 is a child.

[CrystalTears]

This wasn't a protest, Skirm. Swearing on its own is not a crime. Being confrontational, resisting arrest and swearing being a part of it all is a problem.

[Iqxero]

Originally posted by DeV
His demands were out of the ordinary from the start. Why would someone who's already working at Wendy's try to short change a cop of all people. She had plenty of people to short change all day long but she waits until this cop comes along so she can stick it to the man and pocket ten whole dollars. Riiiight.

I understand your opinion is that the cop is in the wrong, but what basis do you have to make claims about his intelligence and ability to do his job besides 5 minutes of grainy video and your personal bias?

Who's to say that the cop didn't drive up, order his classic tripple, pay with a 20 (he thought), get his change, put it on the seat next to him, pull forward after getting his food and look down and see 3 bucks and 57 cents where he expected 13 dollars and 57 cents. He stopped, thought about it for 5 seconds, considered the fact that if this girl short changed him for a thrill, it's very possible she had been short changing customers all day, or for her entire carrer at Mcwendys in the box.

He came in to question the girl about where his money went. He started the encounter off poorly. He choose to bully the girl, because he was perhaps hoping she would buckle quickly, appologize, and he could go eat his lunch still only semi-congealed.

When she threw a huge fit swearing and dissing the po-po, he took it as an admission of guilt, and decided it best to move her out of the environment she was in, and leave it without her influence for him or another officer to come back later that day and investigate the restaurant records for long term theft on her part. She would not cooperate with a direct order from a police officer, and she ate a face full of tasty pepper.

As people have said, the video is elapsed in several places. We can not, in any way, make a clear decisive decision from that short grainy modified video. Obviously the Jury could from the whole thing. I can say from personal experience that if there was just a couple more customers between Officer Sprayhappy's order, and the epic blowup in the back room, a 20 dollar bill can dissapear quite quickly, and leave a draw count coming up smelling like roses.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
16 is a child.

Sorry i worded it poorly. 16 is a child and so is 17. 18+ tho is an adult. Did it say this was a 16 or 17 year old anywhere i missed?

[DeV]

The officer was confrontational from jump. Any other person would have probably been intimidated by such an accusation. In her stupidity, she was not. it didn't make matters any better for her but there is no way in hell this Officer didn't fuck this up just as badly as she did. Matter of fact, it was a 60 thousand dollar fuck up.

And CT, your last sentence describes something I'd expect from a child and definitely not an adult.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Iqxero
I understand your opinion is that the cop is in the wrong, but what basis do you have to make claims about his intelligence and ability to do his job besides 5 minutes of grainy video and your personal bias?
Granted, and what basis do you have to make claims about his intelligence and ability to do his job besides 5 minutes of video as well?

I'm coming from the same place you are, just different points of view, to answer your question.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, this is a rather old story.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/01/26/loc_tristate_digest.html

Judge upholds rehiring of cop who sprayed girl
DAYTON, Ohio — A judge has upheld the reinstatement of a policeman fired after using pepper spray on a worker at a fast-food restaurant.

Montgomery County Common Pleas Judge Jeffrey Froelich ruled Monday that the city is bound by an arbitrator's order to rehire policeman Michael McDonald.

City officials are considering whether to pursue the case, spokesman Tom Biedenharn said Tuesday.

Officer McDonald used pepper spray on Brandy Martin, then 17, while arresting her in February 1998. He said she refused to go with him to his cruiser and receive a summons after he accused her of shortchanging him at the drive-through window.

Officer McDonald, 35, was found not guilty of misdemeanor assault in June 1998. But Police Chief Ronald Lowe fired him a few weeks later, saying OfficerMcDonald's actions were callous and brutal.

[Skirmisher]

Well the court found that swearing was not a problem.

If that police officer is unable to do the job which no one made him apply for while following the law, he should not be doing it at all.

Aside from the swearing she did not DO anything outside of her job correctly. Something the officer could not claim to have also done.

I also find it an interesting commentary that her working in a fast food restaurant is being mocked here and somehow lessens the offensiveness of the cops actions.

[Iqxero]

Because I'm starting with the assumption that since he is a police officer, was a police officer during the video, and as of the end of the case was still a police officer, that he can't have done anything that wrong.

Was he to confrontational? Yes. Did he bully a minor? Yes. Did he assult/attack a minor with no provocation? No. Did he do his job in the way he thought was best at the time to ensure that what he perceived as a crimanl was arrested for further investigation? Yes. Was perhaps his logic the clearest? No.

I'm assuming that police officers are trained and have a job to do. I am assuming that real cops don't quite work like they do in The Badge, Night Court, Reno 911, or NYPD Blue. I have enough faith, misplaced as it may be, in the system that if he had done wrong, he would have been dealt with in a manor fitting his crime. A 60K settlement means nothing, other than the city saying here's 60K, piss off. The far more important fact to me, was that the cop was cleared of any wrongdoing.

Not saying your point of view is wrong, it's your opinion and I :heart: opinion, I'm just sheding further light on my camp in the matter.

Ct's post above mine obviously makes my point wrong, and I accept that his supervisor fired his punk pepperspraying ass. However, I will now hold that that was an emotional response from his supervisor, and not one set in law, considering the courts didn't agree.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Iqxero]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Iqxero

Was he to confrontational? Yes. Did he bully a minor? Yes.

Wow, great standard to hold law enforcement officers to.

Lets see...are you a bully? Check...

Are you confrontational? Check....

Well here's your badge and gun!
Happy hunting!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Iqxero
Because I'm starting with the assumption that since he is a police officer, was a police officer during the video, and as of the end of the case was still a police officer, that he can't have done anything that wrong.
And this is where we differ. I do not assume that just because anyone is a police officer they are always automatically in the right and can do no wrong.

[CrystalTears]

I also find it an interesting commentary that her working in a fast food restaurant is being mocked here and somehow lessens the offensiveness of the cops actions.

I also find it an interesting commentary that people are defending this child and her behavior through all of this. I really don't care if she was 10. She acted badly when she was being accused of a crime, and instead of cooperating, she had a tantrum and basically told the cop to fuck off.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Iqxero
Not saying your point of view is wrong, it's your opinion and I :heart: opinion, I'm just sheding further light on my camp in the matter.
I appreciate your opinion and you shedding additional light on the matter.

I don't think your opinion is wrong, I just think we differ hugely on the responsibilities one takes when they committ to uphold the law.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Iqxero
Because I'm starting with the assumption that since he is a police officer, was a police officer during the video, and as of the end of the case was still a police officer, that he can't have done anything that wrong.
And this is where we differ. I do not assume that just because anyone is a police officer they are always automatically in the right and can do no wrong.

True but unfortunately they have the right to bring in anyone they feel is suspicious for questioning. It's not up to debate at that point. Just comply.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

I also find it an interesting commentary that people are defending this child and her behavior through all of this. I really don't care if she was 10. She acted badly when she was being accused of a crime, and instead of cooperating, she had a tantrum and basically told the cop to fuck off.

Which as i already pointed out is legal.

The cops may not llike it, but me swearing at them is no more ilegal than swearing at you.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I also find it an interesting commentary that people are defending this child and her behavior through all of this. I find it interesting that you feel that people are defending her bahavior simply because they are criticizing the officers actions.

She showed her ghetto ass. She acted a complete fool. It's been said many times, by myself as well.

[CrystalTears]

*sigh* You're missing the point and you keep on bringing up the swearing as though it were the only thing she did. She was being accused of a crime. A cop (no matter how much of a prick he was) was trying to deal with it and arrest her for suspicion.

She was resisting arrest when she started yelling, screaming and insulting the officer.

But you want to make her out like she was a complete innocent, and that's what I don't get. Get upset with the whole situation. But are you really saying that she did nothing wrong here? Seriously?

And DeV, some have been saying that it was ALL him, and I don't agree with that.

[Edited on 8/4/2005 by CrystalTears]

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
True but unfortunately they have the right to bring in anyone they feel is suspicious for questioning. It's not up to debate at that point. Just comply. There was no they. There was only a he, the victim, also the arresting officer. How much bias can there be at that point.

[DeV]

Actually CT, you keep on bringing up her swearing and overall poor attitude as if it had no relation to any of the events leading up to her being pepper sprayed and eventually arrested.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Kitsun

Innocent or guilty in reality doesn't have much bearing on whether or not they can arrest you. If an officer believes you are a suspect in a crime, he can arrest you. The verdict of guilt or innocence is determined later.



Innocent or guilty DOES play into whether someone should be arrested.

I don't think anyone is going to try to say that if police officer arrests 100 people in a row who are all found innocent that he will not be let go or at the least reprimanded/demoted?

When there are immediate ways of eliminating a person as a suspect, you utilize them.

ALL fast food chains have video of at least the cash registers, if Deputy Dog here was using his brain instead of his muscles he would have remembered that.

He could have asked to see the video, he could have asked to have a female officer come there and search her pockets.

He COULD have done alot of things in a case where ALL the available evidence pointed to her being innocent, but ONLY because he was a cop on a huge ego trip he decided that she was going to jail.

No, no respect for this punk wannabe cop.

He was 100% wrong.

This should seriously be used as a training video for all rookie cops as to what NOT to do.

He wasn't going around arresting random people off the street.

He was going to place her under arrest because she was a suspect in what he believed to be a crime.

A suspect is just that - someone that is believed to have committed a crime. Innocent or guilty, you're going in.


The officer could've attempted a different course of action, but so could the girl. Because she didn't follow his order, we have no idea if he was going to request for female backup.

Evidence at hand, at the time: His word, her word, and an empty register(when she could have pocketed the cash). Not entirely unreasonable to wonder.

[Leetahkin]

And counting the register would have put a stop to a lot of the accusations too.

If he had given her a $20, and the register was correct, where would that $20 bill be for her to pocket $10? It would have had to be in the register somewhere.

[DeV]

We have no idea and neither do you. We are all going off of what we saw on the video.

>>A suspect is just that - someone that is believed to have committed a crime. Innocent or guilty, you're going in. <<

Not always true... by a longshot.

There are people suspected of crimes all the time that are not arrested because there is not enough proof or evidence of their suspected guilt. That information must be gathered. Of course there are those who are arrested simply on suspicion of guilt but later released until it's obtained, they admit guilt, or there is no sufficient evidence to hold.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Kitsun


He wasn't going around arresting random people off the street.

He was going to place her under arrest because she was a suspect in what he believed to be a crime.

A suspect is just that - someone that is believed to have committed a crime. Innocent or guilty, you're going in.


The officer could've attempted a different course of action, but so could the girl. Because she didn't follow his order, we have no idea if he was going to request for female backup.

Evidence at hand, at the time: His word, her word, and an empty register(when she could have pocketed the cash). Not entirely unreasonable to wonder.

He may as well have been rounding up random people on the street.

What evidence did he have to make such an arrest?

Oh..I forgot there was the video.

Which only proved she did not take anything.

Yeah this guy is a regular Columbo.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
I'm just curious. To the people defending the drive-thru girl...

If instead of using the pepper spray, the cop grabbed her arm, spun her around, shoved her face into the wall, and hand cuffed her...would that be excessive force? Is it the use of pepper spray that bothers you?

No. That would be excessive force too.

I think there are a few things everyone agrees on:

A. Cop is being an unprofessional asshole. He's throwing his weight around, and abusing his position.

B. Girl is completely irrational and thinks of the Police like Warriorbird thinks of Republicans. She escalated the situation.

C. The mace was unnecessary. That cop was large enough to cuff her (without slamming her face into the wall). If the cop was in danger, I'd say sure, spray her with mace and slam her against the wall to handcuff her (great 1st date move too), but he could have easily cuffed her without the mace. He was just using the mace to be a dick since she was refusing to RESPECT HIS AUTHORITAE.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
And say she had remained calm and stated, "In your wallet" would she then have been mouthing off just as badly?

What could she say that would not have inherently made her guilty here when an officer says, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!???!!"

"In my till??" -- Doesn't that admit to the crime?

"In your wallet?" -- I think I covered that one.

"I have it!" -- wait no, cuz she didn't, and that admits guilt.


-M

A simple "I don't have your money," in a calm way would've worked.

Then the guy takes you into the station, they pull the tape, you go back to work/home in about an hour. You'd also probably get paid for the time you were there.

Saying that this girl wasn't in the wrong is just hysterical.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Hulkein]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
If he had given her a $20, and the register was correct, where would that $20 bill be for her to pocket $10? It would have had to be in the register somewhere.I'm not familiar with register technology, but couldn't she just have punched in that he gave her $10?
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
What could she say that would not have inherently made her guilty here when an officer says, "WHERE'S MY MONEY!???!!""In your wallet, officer" or "In your wallet, sir" would both get the job done.
Originally posted by Skirmisher
Aside from the swearing she did not DO anything outside of her job correctly. "Resisting an arrest is a misdemeanor. It is also a misdemeanor to interfere with an officer while he is engaged in official duties. Resisting arrest typically comes in the form of an arrestee physically struggling with an officer as he tries to place on handcuffs, or when the arrestee struggles as he is being placed in a patrol car or jail cell.

Interfering with the duties of an officer typically occurs when a person attempts to physically restrain an officer to prevent the arrest of another, or when a person is verbally abusive or taunting an officer as he is engaged in his duties."

http://www.gottrouble.com/legal/criminal/criminal_law/resisting_arrest.html

I don't know what state this occurred in, so I couldn't go to that state's specific code. I reckon this'll suffice though.

[DeV]

Latrin, did you actually watch the video?

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
If he had given her a $20, and the register was correct, where would that $20 bill be for her to pocket $10? It would have had to be in the register somewhere.I'm not familiar with register technology, but couldn't she just have punched in that he gave her $10?

True, but that would mean that she would have had to have a spare $10 in her pocket, exchange them, put the bill in the register and then hand the officer his change. I didn't see that much movement, so I doubt that's what happened.

[Skirmisher]

It wasn't in the till.

She offered to let herself be searched.

He could have reviewed the video.

He chose to do none of the above.

What people need to realize is that this cop had decided that she was going to jail because he was pissed off and she wasn't kow-towing to his royal highness.

Quality stuff....and maybe why his Chief said he was not up to deptartment standards.

[CrystalTears]

And unless McD's had updated their uniform, I didn't have any frickin' pockets in my pants when I worked there. Granted, that was YEARS ago but still. I don't remember many uniforms having pocketed pants since there isn't a need for them, but that's just a hunch of mine.

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"HI I am a recognized law enforcement personnel nice to meet you. "

Here I thought you were in counter-terrorism, not a MP.

Special Agent to be exact Warriorbird.
Which happens to be law enforcement. FBI arnt street cops

Originally posted by Skirmisher
16 is a child.

16 is also old enough to be tried as an adult.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DeV
Latrin, did you actually watch the video? Naw, I don't want to open it at work and I'm unable to open it at home (POS comp). I don't think everyone here who said the girl was cussin' and yellin' is lying, though, so I don't see how what I said wouldn't apply.
Originally posted by CrystalTears
I didn't see that much movement, so I doubt that's what happened.K, just taking a shot. :)
Originally posted by Skirmisher
What people need to realize is that this cop had decided that she was going to jail because he was pissed off and she wasn't kow-towing to his royal highness.Who's said that wasn't true?

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by CrystalTears

I also find it an interesting commentary that people are defending this child and her behavior through all of this. I really don't care if she was 10. She acted badly when she was being accused of a crime, and instead of cooperating, she had a tantrum and basically told the cop to fuck off.

Which as i already pointed out is legal.

The cops may not llike it, but me swearing at them is no more ilegal than swearing at you.

WOW you're a smart one. I didnt hear the cop say he was arresting her for swearing. I think it was for theft. What people are saying and you refuse to accept is that SWEARING at a cop escalates the situation and is more likely to cause the cop to arrest you.

Kinda like me saying "more power to him" and you flipping the fuck out and throwing a temper tantrum.

[Back]

If you actually watch the video, you’ll see and hear the first thing he says to her AFTER THE MANAGER CONFIRMS there is no $20 is ”Wheres my money?” in a hostile tone. Everything she says before that we have to assume he can’t hear because he is out front talking to the manager.

So, you know, you can talk about how she flipped out on him but it was after he came out with that, and even then she was excited but didn’t really flip out until he brought out the mace.

And shes a 17 year old girl, man. Jeebus. Fat-ass needs to stop with the drive throughs and harassing honest young girls who at least have jobs.

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
And counting the register would have put a stop to a lot of the accusations too.

If he had given her a $20, and the register was correct, where would that $20 bill be for her to pocket $10? It would have had to be in the register somewhere.

It would not have put any stop to the accusations, as has been said, she could have pocketed it.

Originally posted by Backlash
If you actually watch the video, you’ll see and hear the first thing he says to her AFTER THE MANAGER CONFIRMS there is no $20 is ”Wheres my money?” in a hostile tone. Everything she says before that we have to assume he can’t hear because he is out front talking to the manager.

So, you know, you can talk about how she flipped out on him but it was after he came out with that, and even then she was excited but didn’t really flip out until he brought out the mace.

And shes a 17 year old girl, man. Jeebus. Fat-ass needs to stop with the drive throughs and harassing honest young girls who at least have jobs.

Ive had run ins with cops when I was 16 17 18 19 and 20 and I never acted like that. Calm collected and honest never got arrested, or put in the back of a cop car. I knew the right thing to do :).

[CrystalTears]

If you actually watch the video, you’ll see and hear the first thing he says to her AFTER THE MANAGER CONFIRMS there is no $20 is ”Wheres my money?” in a hostile tone. Everything she says before that we have to assume he can’t hear because he is out front talking to the manager.

To be honest, we don't really know what happened from the time the manager walked away from her register to the time she returned to it, because it skipped. However what I saw was that she was still complaining about the money and he was walking towards her and that's when he exclaimed about "where's my money?!" Two people with attitude and ego, not a good combo.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Dave
WOW you're a smart one.


Only compared to some Dave.


Originally posted by Dave
I didnt hear the cop say he was arresting her for swearing. I think it was for theft. What people are saying and you refuse to accept is that SWEARING at a cop escalates the situation and is more likely to cause the cop to arrest you.


Well what I am saying and that you refuse to let sink in is that according to the law it should NO effect whatsoever.

[Brattt8525]

>>Everything she says before that we have to assume he can’t hear because he is out front talking to the manager. <<<

Considering that the drive through window at those places is well within hearing and eyeshot of the register I am sure the cop and everyone else in the place heard the poor honest hard working little girl swearing.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Brattt8525]

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Brattt8525]

[DeV]

I thought so, Latrin. No one here is lying about her foul mouth and choice of words used when addressing the officer.

>>Resisting arrest typically comes in the form of an arrestee physically struggling with an officer as he tries to place on handcuffs, or when the arrestee struggles as he is being placed in a patrol car or jail cell. <<

I didn't see anything like that occur in the video.

>>Interfering with the duties of an officer typically occurs when a person attempts to physically restrain an officer to prevent the arrest of another, or when a person is verbally abusive or taunting an officer as he is engaged in his duties.

The bolded portion is the only thing that I see that applies in this case from the information you posted. Hence my question. The italicized portion is also questionable on the officer's end.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
poor honest hard working little girl swearing.
Come on now. Poor, probably. Honest, in this case she was. Hard-working, it's Wendy, highly doubt she works all that hard.

She also doesn't look like a little girl to me. She certainly has the attitude of scorned grown woman.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave

It would not have put any stop to the accusations, as has been said, she could have pocketed it. Yes it most certainly would have.

Her drawer would come up either short or over. If counting the drawer, the common sense thing to do, would not put a stop to the accusations then what do you think would, Dave?

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Dave
WOW you're a smart one.


Only compared to some Dave.


Originally posted by Dave
I didnt hear the cop say he was arresting her for swearing. I think it was for theft. What people are saying and you refuse to accept is that SWEARING at a cop escalates the situation and is more likely to cause the cop to arrest you.


Well what I am saying and that you refuse to let sink in is that according to the law it should NO effect whatsoever.

Which is why she wasn't arrested for swearing at a officer. Theft was the cause. DURRRRRR!!!!
Verbal and body language come into play when people are questioned by cops. It might be something new to you, and hard for you to understand but that's the way it is.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Brattt8525
poor honest hard working little girl swearing.
Come on now. Poor, probably. Honest, in this case she was. Hard-working, it's Wendy, highly doubt she works all that hard.

She also doesn't look like a little girl to me. She certainly has the attitude of scorned grown woman.

Exactly my point, it has gotten to the point where some people are trying to make her out to be a sweet innocent little child.

I don't think anyone here thinks that what the cop did was the BEST thing to do, but at least lets not make her out to be a completely innocent child. That kid was no child she is a young adult. Unfortunately with a mouth and attitude that would drive a sailor into the fetal position :lol:

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
And counting the register would have put a stop to a lot of the accusations too.

If he had given her a $20, and the register was correct, where would that $20 bill be for her to pocket $10? It would have had to be in the register somewhere.

It would not have put any stop to the accusations, as has been said, she could have pocketed it.

It most certainly could have shown that she did not steal his money. You pull a report of sales from when she started, you count the money in her till - then compare.

If there are no discrepancies, she pocketed nothing.

[Brattt8525]

I know that had I been in that position, as afraid of authority as I am he would have scared me into crying and holding out my hands to be cuffed and booked.

If a cop gets behind me while I am driving I immedately get nervous and start watching my speed like a hawk. I am easily intimidated :shrug:

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Dave
WOW you're a smart one.


Only compared to some Dave.


Originally posted by Dave
I didnt hear the cop say he was arresting her for swearing. I think it was for theft. What people are saying and you refuse to accept is that SWEARING at a cop escalates the situation and is more likely to cause the cop to arrest you.


Well what I am saying and that you refuse to let sink in is that according to the law it should NO effect whatsoever.

Actually there was an ordinance passed in Jersey some time ago about public vulgarity. I remember being amused/disturbed because I swear like a sailor.

Now, aside from disturbing the peace, Im willing to bet there is some vaguely worded law that you can be nabbed on for being loud and vulgar (whether or not it;s aimed at an officer). Are you so certain that it "it should NO effect whatsoever"?

Not that I am in any way advocating a law that prohibits freedom of speach. I dont want any such thing. I am aware though that theres a lot of open to interpretation kind of laws (disturbing the peace, public lewdness even "careless driving") that could be used to ruin your day and are very hard to prove/disprove.

[Back]

Big difference between her and a full grown male sailor. Very big. Just because she dosen’t fit your vision of what innocence is she’s guilty? It dosen’t wash.

And if she hated cops before this... man oh man I can’t even image how she feels now. Or her family members, and friends, and co-workers and...

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave

It would not have put any stop to the accusations, as has been said, she could have pocketed it. Yes it most certainly would have.

Her drawer would come up either short or over. If counting the drawer, the common sense thing to do, would not put a stop to the accusations then what do you think would, Dave?

Okay math lesson.

I have 50.00 in my drawer.
Guy buys 5.00 worth of food.
Guy gives me a 20.00 bill
I give guy back 5.00 and pocket the 20.00
I put a 10 in drawer
drawer now has 55.00 in it, the exact amount it is supposed to have.

Missing 20.00 is in my pocket.
Counting said drawer comes back with the correct amount of money in it, to include the correct bills.

See that took me all of 30 seconds to figure out how I would have done it. And minus video/visual proof gotten away with it no problem

Edit: the above goes for your post as well Nobodycares.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Dave]

[Back]

Face it man, there is no reason to pepper spray a 17 year old girl because she said some bad words. Its really that simple.

Originally posted by Dave

Guy buys 5.00 worth of food.
Guy gives me a 20.00 bill
I give guy back 5.00 and pocket the 20.00


I would be like, "Excuse me n00b, but I get 15 fucking dollars change when I buy 5 dollars worth of food and give you a 20! Now gimme my change or you are getting sprayed in the eyes with mace!"

You are right backlash, BUT there is a reason to pepper spray her because she resisted arrest and was belligerent, it is really that simple

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets

Originally posted by Dave

Guy buys 5.00 worth of food.
Guy gives me a 20.00 bill
I give guy back 5.00 and pocket the 20.00


I would be like, "Excuse me n00b, but I get 15 fucking dollars change when I buy 5 dollars worth of food and give you a 20! Now gimme my change or you are getting sprayed in the eyes with mace!"

EXACTLY!!!!11 Or a baton over the head.

[Leetahkin]

If you actually think she is smart enough to pull something like that off, with a camera watching her, you're deluded.

She doesn't have the intelligence to speak respectfully and calmly when accused; she wouldn't have the intelligence to pull of what you said above.

Not withstanding the fact that the camera showed nothing about her pocketing/exchanging any money in her till.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
See that took me all of 30 seconds to figure out how I would have done it. And minus video/visual proof gotten away with it no problem Math lesson or conspiracy theory?

Counting the drawer would have been the primary option in this case.

Haha So your saying shes dumb because of who she is? Bigot. ;) (said tounge in cheek so dont go gettin offended)

Street smarts are just as useful as book smarts in this type of situation.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
and maybe why his Chief said he was not up to deptartment standards.

I know I myself am not arguing this. In fact I said from the beginning the guy, at that time, lacked the self control to do his job as well as he should.

I'm arguing against the people bending over backwards defending this woman.

The cop is at fault for being too aggressive, but that lady can also be faulted for being maced.

When you the first few words out of your mouth when asked if you took something are FUCK etc, then hear 'come with me or you're getting maced' and you ignore the warning, well, enjoy the sting asshole.

[Edited on 8-4-2005 by Hulkein]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Dave
See that took me all of 30 seconds to figure out how I would have done it. And minus video/visual proof gotten away with it no problem Math lesson or conspiracy theory?

Counting the drawer would have been the primary option in this case.

which could have easily been circumvented as I was kind enough to show you.

Video proof on the other hand, would have been much more useful.
In the end its ALL THE MANAGERS FAULT!!11 The MAN trying to bring the people down. He knew at the time he could have shown the video but NOOO he wanted to see her arrested and laughed about it.
That my dear is more reminiscent of one of the conspiracy theories that are prevalent on the boards here.

[Brattt8525]

There is a point, why didn't the manager take the girl off the register and into his office along with the cop? Sure would have been a smart business type thing to do instead of having trash mouth yelling and super cop getting in her face.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
Haha So your saying shes dumb because of who she is? Bigot. ;) (said tounge in cheek so dont go gettin offended)It's not as if you haven't been called that or worse before, Dave.
Hell, NobodyCares makes a fairly accurate point.


Street smarts are just as useful as book smarts in this type of situation. The cash register has this nifty little feature called a calculator.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
If you actually think she is smart enough to pull something like that off, with a camera watching her, you're deluded.

What are you racist?


She doesn't have the intelligence to speak respectfully and calmly when accused; she wouldn't have the intelligence to pull of what you said above.

I disagree. Many people know how to rip someone off but have no clue on how to converse in certain situations.


Not withstanding the fact that the camera showed nothing about her pocketing/exchanging any money in her till.

That is hindsight. At the time no one saw the tape.

What about the calculator? I figured it out quickly in my head with nothing.
I beat the system!!!11