Dead, Buried, Nude

[The Cat In The Hat]

I was cruising the weird news stories, it's a habit at midnight. This made me wonder what I would do if this was my family member. Would you honor that "last" request? Simple yes or no, explaine if you want.

Everyone's entitled to a stupid topic, this is mine!

Ill. Nudist to Be Buried Fully Clothed
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 4:08 PM EDT
The Associated Press


PEKIN, Illinois (AP) — Even in death, Robert Norton's nakedness is a no-no. Norton, 82, spent four decades in and out of court fighting repeated arrests for gardening and wandering his yard in the nude. He said he wanted to be buried without any clothes, but his family is sending him to eternity wearing gray slacks and a matching shirt.

"He's not going to be buried in the nude," said his brother, Jack Norton, a minister.

Robert Norton's family said they hope to lay the years of controversy to rest Thursday when the World War II veteran is buried. Norton, who died Monday, had fought 20 indecency arrests since 1962, arguing that he had a constitutional right to public nakedness.

Relatives say Norton suffered emotional problems after serving in the Army Air Forces during World War II. Prosecutors counter that he was just stubborn.

"He was a naturist, and he just chose to be in the nude as people who are seeking nature. He was a peace-loving person," said his brother, Duane Norton.

Brenda Loete, who lived next door to Norton for a dozen years before he moved into a nursing home, said she never spoke to her exhibitionist neighbor.

"We didn't really know him. We just had him arrested," Loete said. "Normally, if we had him arrested in the spring he'd be gone for the summer and we wouldn't have to worry about him until the next spring."

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by The Cat In The Hat]

[Snapp]

I would honor it. What does it matter really if he's buried with or without clothes? He had a simple request for when he died.. just have it closed-casket. I'd feel guilty if I didn't do it.

[SpunGirl]

That's messed up. If the d00d wants to be buried in the buff, who cares? Sounds to me like his family was irritated at his lifestyle in life (haha) and decided to correct it in death, just because they could.

Lame.

-K

[MangledKitty]

I agree with Snapp, if he wanted to be buried naked and I was the one that decided that I would not let him be buried naked just because I didn't like it or something, I would feel really guilty and probably wouldn't be able to live with myself. Especially if that was his last wish, and what he wanted.

[Skirmisher]

I mean so give him a sheet or something covering him from the waist down if they are worried about an open casket viewing or something.

Outside of that, I don't see how it matters what he wears while decomposing, so why not follow his wishes?

[Leetahkin]

Throw a picture of the deaceased up at the calling hours so there wouldn't be an open casket.... and honor his wishes. Who cares? It was his wish to be buried so. Everyone has the chance to say how they want things when they pass one.

Geesh, stupid thing for a grieving family to worry about.

[Satira]

Let the man be buried the way he wants.

He had enough people heckle him while he was alive. You'd think the poor guy could at least get his final wish honored by his family. He's the only one that's going to be in the casket naked when everything is said and done.

[Sean of the Thread]

I say hell yeah.. let dude ride out in the nude. As far as covering him up for the casket I say fuck that too. I'm no nudist but his wish is his wish first of all and second of all it is the human body.. OMG A PENIS.. who gives a shit. Behind our trendy GAP clothes out bodies are truly something to get stoned and think about.

[Delirium]

Would make for an intresting wake. I wonder if the penis looks different after they drain the blood and add in the chemicals to the dead body. Im the only one whos voted no heh. The only reason i say this is the guys dead, i dont believe in an afterlife, so fuck it. Let the family do whatever the hell they want. If it makes their greiving process easier, so be it.

[Brattt8525]

To me your last wishes should at least be granted. We spend our lives for the most part doing what society wants us/makes us do.

They could have just had a closed casket.

[Itachi]

If they cover him I hope he comes back and gives them a slap across the face with his ghostly wang.

[Burnt out Priestess]

I say give him his last wish's i mean for the most part,the bottom of the casket could be closed,so they only saw from the waist up anyhow,aint like they would see anything below the belt in that case,unless they are worried about any scars,marks and so forth that coulda been done if he had an autopsy which in that case just have a closed casket with his picture ontop of the casket.

[ElanthianSiren]

To not honor someone's dying wish is pretty pathetic.

In a slight second place of patheti-sad are the acts of the neighbor. How friggin passive aggressive. "We never talked to him." Well, I guess that eliminates solving the problem through discourse. I can understand being turned off if you had kids, but up and calling the police automatically is pretty retarded, especially given that the guy was on his own property.

Society's views on nudity make me chuckle. It's likely far less harmful than rape or assault.

-M

[Bobmuhthol]

<<especially given that the guy was on his own property.>>

I don't see how this changes the fact that he was publically nude. What other crimes can be committed without hassle because you're on your own property?

<<It's likely far less harmful than rape or assault.>>

Rape and assault both are more severe charges with harsher punishment. Everyone knows it's less harmful than rape and assault, but that doesn't mean anything. Rape and assault are less harmful than murder, so you can't complain about them!!

[ElanthianSiren]

A lot of people hang out nude on their property: skinny dipping, tanning etc. Rarely, are they arrested because nudity, in general, doesn't harm anyone. Each of the crimes I listed before does; sorry, I wasn't clear on the point.

What you have basically are sets of laws whose only justification is that the behavior they prohibit "offends" someone. However, many different things offend many different people. Personally, I'm not offended by nudity, though I find alpha male behavior particularly offensive. :shrug: -Yet acting like an asshole who wasn't beaten enough as a child, without doing physical harm, is generally not a crime.

In the end, it's a subjective judgement based on level of offense to the "public" and intent/motivation of the offender. If a person's walking around sexually aroused to make a sight of themselves, yes, I agree, it's public exposure for sexual gratification. There's an issue there that needs to be addressed.

If someone is tending their garden nude because they're into getting back to nature or something, laissez-faire. I don't care. I simply think the neighbor could have tried a little discussion with the guy about the problems she had with his nudity rather than using the RL report verb right away.

-M

[cajunlady]

Eh, we come in naked, let him go out that way. Family says he was stubburn but now THEY get the last word... "yay, we beat down the ww2 vet that simply wants to be buried nude. Well not on OUR watch grampa!"
Little control issues maybe?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
In the end, it's a subjective judgement based on level of offense to the "public" and intent/motivation of the offender.That's why we elect people to make laws. If you don't like the laws, vote for someone who'll change them.

At any rate, while I wouldn't have wanted to see my grandfather naked when he died, I think I could manage if its what he wanted and the casket was top-half open only. :shrug:

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
At any rate, while I wouldn't have wanted to see my grandfather naked when he died, I think I could manage if its what he wanted and the casket was top-half open only. :shrug:

Are funerals for the living or the dead?

If you argue they're to pay respect to the dead, the guy should have been buried nude.

If you argue that they're for the living, the relatives took the appropriate action in that the nudity made them uncomfortable.

Another moral question without a finite answer for all.

Their statements about why he chose to go buff make me raise an eyebrow about their level of respect of their relative, but I didn't know the guy. Maybe he rambled on about how he walked naked through trenches or something because it was a lucky way to avoid mines and how he had to avoid them now because they were planted all over his garden.

-M

[DeV]

I'd honor them. Damn shame when a persons legal last wishes are dismissed by their own family. To bury him any other way would dishonor his memory.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Personally, I would dress him for the funeral, then remove his clothes before the burial and lay him to rest the way he wanted to be.

Funerals, IMO are for the living, to say a final goodbye to the dead. They held meaning for many cultures at one time and still do for some cultures, but I think Americans have lost sight of the ritual part of it. The part that's actually supposed to help the dead in their "afterlife" (Things like coins on the eyes to pay the ferryman etc..)

[MaryJane]

That guy's family sucks. If they were concerned about "Looks" they could have placed a blanket on him or something.

[Hulkein]

<< I can understand being turned off if you had kids, but up and calling the police automatically is pretty retarded, especially given that the guy was on his own property >>

I don't care if it's his property, if I had kids and he was walking around naked with regularity, I'd call the cops too.

I'd also talk to him and tell him to put up a 12 foot wooden fence if he feels the need to garden in his yard naked.

<< Society's views on nudity make me chuckle. It's likely far less harmful than rape or assault. >>

It's also a far less harsh sentence than rape or assault.

[MaryJane]

Speaking of burials.. has anyone ever heard of taking pictures at a funeral?!

The other day my mom tells me we got my friend's wedding pictures back so I'm flipping through them.. and suddenly, there's a picture of my aunt in a casket. I was like WTF?! we didn't need pictures of that! We should be looking at ones of her alive. I just stuffed everything back in the envelope and walked away.

I think the practice of taking pictures is stupid.

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
To not honor someone's dying wish is pretty pathetic.


What if he wanted to have an open casket, with a bouquet of flowers sticking out of his ass?

For all we know this guy was bonkers. He sure did get arrested a lot.

[War Angel]

"He's not going to be buried in the nude," said his brother, Jack Norton, a minister.

His brother, a minister, is making a decision for him, based on his beliefs, not the guy who passed away.
If he had put in his will, that his family members wouldn't receive a penny from his estate unless he was buried in the nude, there would be no question as to how the guy went into the ground, I'm sure. People suck.:yes:

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by MaryJane
Speaking of burials.. has anyone ever heard of taking pictures at a funeral?!

The other day my mom tells me we got my friend's wedding pictures back so I'm flipping through them.. and suddenly, there's a picture of my aunt in a casket. I was like WTF?! we didn't need pictures of that! We should be looking at ones of her alive. I just stuffed everything back in the envelope and walked away.

I think the practice of taking pictures is stupid.


While I agree... to a point...

My 2 year old sister passed away from Phnumonia when I was 5. My grandmother took pictures of her at the funeral.

For me, this was a good thing. I've blocked out 95% of my childhood for reasons I won't go into here, and part of what was blocked out was her. I hardly remembered her no matter how hard I tried. Seeing pictures helped, seeing the funeral pictures brought closure to the fact that I once had a sister and she's gone.

Anyway, point is it's not always a bad thing.

[OreoElf]

MMM I guess we haven't shed the puritanical bent that some of the forefather's of this country passed on. Nudity is perfectly natural... I've been to a nudist camp with people of all sizes there.. in fact I think people were more comfortable being who they really are there... (Man would it be cold in winter though).

I think they shoulda let him go out the way he wanted. It's not hard to close a casket. People are embarassed or afraid of nature (usually their own) because society teaches us to be. I think nudity is a wonderful thing... being comfortable with yourself is important. It sounds like this man was, no matter how his neighbors or the law tried to change him. I admire that.