Stupidity Abounds in Vaalor (this time I'm not involved)

[Kenn]

It's like the fucking plauge...

Speaking to a middle-aged blonde elven priestess, Kamarur asks, "R U A LESBIAN?"

Erfwerfi warmly asks, "You werent talking to me. Or your not a LEZ?"

Noobly asks, "Can any 1 heal my nerve damage??????????"

Trivnatta says, "Only if you use proper english."

Noobly asks, "Hello and empanths open to heal my orange nervs??????????????"

Noobly asks, "Any 1???"

This town is making my head hurt... We should burn it to the ground and build a new, BETTER town from the ashes.

Or you could try to educate the n00blets.

- Arkans

[Altariel]

Pobrecito.

[Kenn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Or you could try to educate the n00blets.

- Arkans

We've tried. They are like some kind of retarded dog that you can't train. They best go the way of Ol' Yeller.

[Warriorbird]

Without newbie retention, the long term decline will worsen....

I think they need to meet the angry rampaging dwarf women's movement. It would be educational.

Unfortunately, for the game that we all love and play, if we don't educate these players, whe are all fucked.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

Pretty much. Takes a strong mind and a willingness to put up with that kind've stuff. The Mentors can't do it alone.

Unfortunately, blasting them to pieces won't work either. What's worse is topics like these that are meant to berate them. I remember when I first started. I never role-played in my life. I remember act whistles the Star Wars theme and crap like that.. You never know who just doesn't know. You can't teach someone to role-play over night.

- Arkans

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Arkans
Unfortunately, blasting them to pieces won't work either. What's worse is topics like these that are meant to berate them. I remember when I first started. I never role-played in my life. I remember act whistles the Star Wars theme and crap like that.. You never know who just doesn't know. You can't teach someone to role-play over night.

- Arkans

Teach them to RP overnight? Perhaps not. Teach them to use proper english, yes. I'm sorry, but if I was in vaalor, I'd whisper to them, if they did it again, I'd tell them flat out its gonna hurt, and the third time would lead to lost limbs. And dammit if I could cast the 200s circle I'd silence them. Maybe I'll go find a silence scroll....

Cmon! If RPing isn't your thing, at least talk correctly. This kinda shit angers me in real life, I hate when people don't even take the time to use proper written language/spoke langugage. I cringe when I see in e-mails "kthnx, ttyl, g2g now bcz my beau is cumn"

Right.. Poor typing skills are definately a very IC thing to attack people over. I hope you don't say you RP, because if you do, I'm gonna laugh and flame you.

Anyway, just about every single game out there does not encourage proper typing skills. Naturally, some people are not that good at it. Even worse, some people are just not good at grammar and spelling. Not their fault, well maybe the laziness to learn is, but that's not the point. The point is is that some of these people are trying. Then we have Mr. Hot Shot RP man attacking them due to OOC reasons.

Maybe when you make a typo I should Arkans kill you. I bet you'd enjoy that and completely understand.

- Arkans

[Celexei]

Education is the way, no need in making GS an unfriendly unwelcome environment to those that don't know how to roleplay yet...just educate first, and the intereaction can form good bonds and friends as well. I know I started out that way, asking all sorts of technical questions like what do I type to do this etc to friends before I got the hint. We where all there at one point!

[Shalla]

Like the warn method system, they should implement a warn for behaviours like that. 3 strikes, and you will have to be pulled in In Character Etiquette lounge. and read in behavioural policy or something. And then have a gamehost, come in after 15 minutes and ask a couple of questions and to make sure they got it.

Good idea on paper.. Terrible idea in realty. The reasons for this?

1. Everyone's standards are different. Some people drop these types of warnings like nothing.

2. The second someone is dragged up into a lounge, forced to read something, take a test, and speak to a GM is the second they log out and never come back.

It's a sad reality, but the above would prevent such a system.

- Arkans

[Gan]

Peer pressure is the only way to bend these folks back into genre. Constructive peer pressure at first, then if they get ignorant... well, public humiliation also works.

[Renian]

Right. We need to teach these people the way of RPing and GS in general, because we need more players. We need more fresh meat. If we don't help them out, Gemstone can't grow at all; we won't have people to populate new areas.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Arkans
Right.. Poor typing skills are definately a very IC thing to attack people over. I hope you don't say you RP, because if you do, I'm gonna laugh and flame you.

Anyway, just about every single game out there does not encourage proper typing skills. Naturally, some people are not that good at it. Even worse, some people are just not good at grammar and spelling. Not their fault, well maybe the laziness to learn is, but that's not the point. The point is is that some of these people are trying. Then we have Mr. Hot Shot RP man attacking them due to OOC reasons.

Maybe when you make a typo I should Arkans kill you. I bet you'd enjoy that and completely understand.

- Arkans

Wow Arkans, you missed the point entirely. I'm not gonna come down on someone for leaving out a comma, but even someone with an IQ of 50 can figure out from the first play.net page that netspeak isn't appropiate in this game. So when I see people saying ridiculously OOC things, I know they are ruining MY time and YOURS and just DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

Again, I'm not talking about a TYPO, I'm talking about when someone sees a well rp'd duel in TSC and then shouts "FUCKING PWND!!!!!!1111one!~". (don't get me wrong, I find your trade statement funny as hell on the boards, just no place for it in game). It just ruins the rp. And yeah, I will silence them. If whispers don't work, the GMs speeches about it on the web site and when you first start, well...maybe punishment will work, instilling within them the belief that that kind of behavior won't be tolerated here.

And I don't claim to be uber rper. In fact, I probably suck right now...and the amount that I am playing (little) and the age of the only people I remember from the game (a lot higher than me) sorta drives me to get my 6 hours of XXX in before I touch rping.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Kenn
Speaking to a middle-aged blonde elven priestess, Kamarur asks, "R U A LESBIAN?"


Yeah Arkans, thats just a typo, I shoulda let that slide. My bad.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Renian
Right. We need to teach these people the way of RPing and GS in general, because we need more players. We need more fresh meat. If we don't help them out, Gemstone can't grow at all; we won't have people to populate new areas.

Then make them believe this kinda shit is unacceptable. I don't want the game turning a lesbian chat room...if whispers don't work, I'm all for silencing them. You think whispering over and over and over again is gonna work? Granted, I think whispering will work better, if its gonna work at all, than silencing, but...if they are on free accounts for the month to ruin other people's time, I say silence them and let the rest of us get on with it.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Celexei
Education is the way, no need in making GS an unfriendly unwelcome environment to those that don't know how to roleplay yet...just educate first, and the intereaction can form good bonds and friends as well. I know I started out that way, asking all sorts of technical questions like what do I type to do this etc to friends before I got the hint. We where all there at one point!

There is a big difference between:
noob says "how do I wear the armor, what do I type?" or
noob says "how do I check my health, and stop bleeding?"
and what those idiots were saying. They knew what they were saying, they just didn't care I don't think. Obviously I wouldn't silence someone who wanted information.

Sorry to be adament about this, its just something I feel strongly about, and I feel like Arkan's last post pegged me in a very wrong light (no offence to arkans)

[Renian]

I see your point, Janarth.

In a related subject, is there a warrior raging thrak type person in Ta'Vaalor we could point these people to?

[Miss X]

No, there isn't. A lot of people have asked for something like that but it's never happened.

The sprites that new players get are really great, they do a lot of the things the thrak does so it's very beneficial for new players to go through the quest.

You can always direct players to Silverwood and get a mentor for them, or have them type HELPME so they poof to Silverwood. There are mentors online pretty much all the time so if you don't have time or energy to help a new player, find someone that does. We need to keep new players, a lot of them just log in, have one bad experience then log out forever!

They knew what they were saying and honestly, I still can't blame them. This is common in every other MMORPG you play. No ifs, ands, or buts. Gemstone is the exception here. Thus, not everyone is going to be aware of our strict standards and killing them off or being mean to them can really put away a possibly good asset to the game given time.

- Arkans

[ieva]

I found the pwnz0rz nooblets to be uber l33tz0rz 4 teh w1n.... zors.

Though, one point no one has brought up is age. It is very possible these new players are children and are incapable of using proper english simply because of their lack of education. I don't know, something about the Lesbien comment just screamed 12 to me.

I started playing this game at 8 years old, I did not do any better.

[Apotheosis]

kids who use the internet today communicate in different ways than we do, face it, we're all fogies ;)

[Jolena]

My son just started playing Gemstone a few weeks ago and he's not used to all the RPing and things that come with this game either. I've managed to get a few good friends to keep an eye on him, help him out when they see him, etc.

Unfortunately the other RPG's that he's played online (and yes some were text) don't mind the l33t speak and don't discourage it either. it's hard for him to adjust and to be honest, his typing skills aren't that great yet as far as quickness. He's trying though, and sometimes it is frustrating for even me to coach him along. However, he's a good example of the upcoming new generation of Gemstoners.

Yes, there are some jerks out there such as the one asking the priestess if she's a lesbian however most of them are not that dense nor are they out to start trouble. They are just new folks, most of them rather young, and they are learning the process. You'd be surprised how many people I've run into lately who are honestly new to the game, extremely appreciative and receptive to the help I've given them, and just need a bit of patience and understanding to become great additions to the game.

Just my two cents.

[Terminator X]

<<Noobly asks, "Hello and empanths open to heal my orange nervs??????????????">>

:?:

[Jolena]

on Stormfront, when you have a second degree nerve damage, your nerves show up orange. white for 1st degree, orange for second, and red for third. I found it kind of funny as I can see why he would say 'orange' not knowing heh.

[Terminator X]

Oh, I just ask people to heal my red twos :P

[Electrawn]

Gemstone needs a tutorial town. The sprites are great, but the game has become so complex that it is extremely overwhelming.

I don't pay $50 a month to teach other people to play the game and/or put up with teenage angst and bull shit. If Simutronics wants these to turn into paying accounts they have to lower the learning curve. If they want to have gamehosts hold hands of kids to teach them the game...let em. If they want to give perks to players like freebies to teach these kids, fine. Keep that crap away from me until it knows what kris'haresh means.

Currently...Vaalor gets overrun with all the trial account newbies since that is the only town Stormfront has maps for. (Another RSN half finished project) Very few mentors, however, have Vaalor as their home. So this leaves this crap ending up in VC and on the amulet.

No trial accounts should start in Vaalor.

There needs to be a tutorial town created just for new starts. Provide a few hunting areas up to level 10 or so. I suggest some sort of test/artisan system where you have to prove you know so much knowledge before being able to leave town. No one leaves the town for the rest of elanthia till level 5. If you "fail" you could still leave at like 10 or 8 or so.

Premium accounts should be excepted from tutorial town and allowed to start anywhere. Trial accounts would be REQUIRED to be in this town.

Perhaps have a level 20-30 hunting area. Easy to kill but treasure poor critters...probably undead as that would attract the best roleplay charaters and keep the powerhunters away.

And of course...this town should have a lot smarter AI than the stupid sprites.

Stormfront also needs an extensive in-game help file. HELP sucks...worse than sucks.

Maybe a FAQ verb too?

-Electrawn

[Electrawn]

Maybe I should write a .newbie script

Newbie darkly says, "LOL."
>
.newbie newbie LOL

You whisper to newbie "Welcome to Elanthia. A MUD is not like a chatroom, if you wish to Laugh out Loud, just type laugh! LOL is not something your character would say...think about it...when you are told a joke...do you L O L? Should you wish to see a mentor, type HELPME..."

...

any interest?

-Electrawn

[OreoElf]

I'm always interested in your scripts Elected :love: Glad to hear from you and I agree with you... though *gasp* I've applied to be a mentor so I guess I do / will pay to help the damn noobs out. lol Anyway if its that bad or inapropriate you can try to help them, take them to a mentor, or just report cut and paste the lesbian comment etc. I really think a tutorial town would be fabulous... but probably will never happen beyond what the sprites and thrak can do.

Amerith's central nervous system.

[Rainy Day]

Originally posted by Arkans
They knew what they were saying and honestly, I still can't blame them. This is common in every other MMORPG you play. No ifs, ands, or buts. Gemstone is the exception here. Thus, not everyone is going to be aware of our strict standards and killing them off or being mean to them can really put away a possibly good asset to the game given time.

- Arkans

Bingo. Used to be a lot of new players to GS had no game backgrounds, or came from table top or MUD backgrounds. Nowadays you can bet 99% of them have played other MMORPG's. In those games bad names and chat speak is the expected norm. True roleplaying is a totally alien concept. GS is a huge culture shock to them and beating them up for it won't teach them any better.

RD

[Kainen]

A tutorial town would be an excellent idea.. most muds have them.. called mud school (ahh brings back memories hehe). That would help a HUGE amount of problems we have now. I hope you posted that idea on the official boards.

A tutorial is definately needed. One that teaches the culture of the role-playing community in Gemstone and actually encourages people to role-play by showing it as something as fun and something that can be exciting. The second the new player comes in, they need to be in a well guided tutorial that is well scripted and actually immerses them. Frankly, I think everyone that slams down every new guy that says something stupid is causing more deterement to the game than they believe.

- Arkans

[Meges]

There kind of is a tutorial town. It's the fake Wehnimer's Landing where Hosts are supposed to give guided tours with Mentors. These are scheduled tours. You can type TOUR in the game to see a little bit of information on it if you're over level 3. If you're level three or under and are a new account, I think you see a little more information and instruction; I can't remember exactly what it says.

At any rate, the tour visits most of the main shops, teaches a little bit about GSIII/IV culture, manners etc. and even goes on a little hunt as a group. Yes, it's very basic, but I guess it's better than nothing. That's assuming the Hosts/Mentors are even giving the tours still.

I do think the previous idea requiring new trial accounts to remain in a special town is a good idea though. The only problem is that it would require tons of supervision as there would be no real veterans, unless some opened new accounts, to help guide the behavior of the new players.

There's a ton I could say on this, but I think the best solution would be for the GMs to enforce policy for a change when it comes to OOC behavior in inappropiate places.

Meges

[Matt-Ichiban]

I like the idea of the tutorial town. Starting GS for the first time can be kinda confusing especially starting out in debt to the town. I know when I first started playing Ragnarok Online I liked the novi training school. Pretty much just a bunch of NPC setup to give you information about the different features of the game. What they should have included was a quiz at the end of each because you got EXP for each NPC you talked to as well as items. Something similar like getting a portion of your mind filled for learning from the NPCs and answer a quiz would be good. Maybe bit of silver as well. Then after doing all the learning from NPCs set them up in a mini town with the hunting areas as previously mentioned.

[Terminator X]

<<Rainy Day's post>>

Considering that well over 50% of the GemStone population involves PCs whose names pertain combinations of two or more nouns, it's going to be difficult to set an example.

[Edited on 7-30-2005 by Terminator X]

[cajunlady]

Originally posted by Janarth
[quote]Originally posted by Kenn
Speaking to a middle-aged blonde elven priestess, Kamarur asks, "R U A LESBIAN?"


And here Zena's been flirtin' with the laundress the whole time...better legs. Anyway.

I was there for that incident, but somehow missed the lesbian shout.., but I recall the any1 thing, and told the noob not to have such a lazy tongue in a whisper maybe? There is no such blessing as the Thrak where they'd actually have to be quizzed unfortunately. Having started my experience in Vaalor last year, and RP to this extent, I got more than my share of stares and corrections. Still do! Difference being I listened and give a damn. I cringe at raising some of these newbies because I'm afraid they'll jump up and bolt back out a gate with their sprite on their shoulder as soon as they are unstunned. I recite a request to not unstun, and make sure the character acknowledges my request in asking him/her *usually him* not to go anywhere. I've promised spells to get them to stay... doesn't work when they have no clue. If they die 3 times in 15 minutes, I drag their dead life kept ass to Silverwood courtyard and give a lil lecture about sprites and manners. I am usually thinking to myself the Player as to how much summer vacation sucks, and when do the grade schools go back in. When the new one's don't even try to listen-- very frustrating. You just wanna tell 'em, if all you want is to kill things and level, go get your xbox or whatever out. But of course, that would be terribly OOC.
The ones that do listen, I go through lengths to work with them.
... and ther do seem to be a lot of lady dwaves showing up in Vaalor lately... :smug:

[cajunlady]

this would be an excellent site for new adventurers...

www.angelfire.com/rpg2/rp1/AnonGuide.html
:roll:

well written and accurate, and written in character dialect RP wise.

[ElanthianSiren]

I did table top since I was 8 years old. Did free forum RP from 11 to 14. Started GS at 14 or 15.

I agree, most people coming in may have played graphics, but graphics are much different than text in my experience. Information, in general though, must be assimiliated slowly to have a lasting effect. When I started in GS, I made some errors, and I had been playing RP-type games for years.

My worst points were:
1. Not viewing staff as separate from GS, so I would RP with GMs and GHs -- who, for the most part, seemed to enjoy it anyway, but I now realize that was bad.
2. Language. I still think SIMU's language policy blows; there really are so many "Questionable" words, and I found many of them. What helped was when one of the GMs told me that George Carlin had a comedy routine about all the words you can't say on TV, and if I just avoided those in GS, I'd be cool, so I did. Most people though, think foul language and think 4 letters.
3. Killing People -- I did it because I could for no real IC reason.

I think part of the deterrant toward teaching new players is that many times they don't stick around because of the complexity of the systems (as someone else mentioned). That's frustrating.

-M

[cajunlady]

first of note for me, Zork. later on and why I looked for an rpg last year, manymany many years later after ... Crossroads. In the old BBS days. Was an air mage *recalls fondly about amber screened text, afore dem fancy pitchers show'd up! an dat pesky Prodigy nonesense. HEH* Glad I made it to GS though, been an enjoyment.
I do recall the game being VERY frustrating to learn. I didn't even know what guards, blurs, and colors were all about until maybe.. 7 or 8? *Stoopit? nah, just new.* Lexicon helped a lot, and my mentor Deevareeree. I recall also getting asked quite a bit, "will you be staying in town for a while?" meaning, was I leaving after trial. I think because I said I was probably staying, they were willing to then offer some more time. I don't mind helping new folks; might not be a requirement of the game- i think electraw said it isn't why he pays 50 dollars a month *which is fine* but I see it as in game, this is a new person in town to start training... in life, we train new employees, welcome new kids to neighborhoods and schools... it fits with my character's RP. Those I have helped along the way I see now taking youngers under their wings and helping them. In that way, we can keep new people coming and staying and feeling part of the community... not necessarily by not allowing them in town for a certain number of trains...*ducks* pros and cons to each I know.