RP vs PvE vs PvP servers

Thread split from the Hyjal Protectorate Request thread.


Originally posted by Izalude

We WILL be making a Horde guild on the new RP-PvP server along with our Allied guilds on Argent Dawn.

None of you will be able to get past level 10 on a PvP server. :grouphug:

[Edited on 7/27/2005 by CrystalTears]

The biggest problem (aside from the constant PvP attacks, not being able to hide behind a flag, or having a capped Paladin always at your back) is definately not having the Zerg. I feel for ya guys, I really do!

- Arkans

[Anebriated]

None of you will be able to get past level 10 on a PvP server.

OH NOEZ! I played AD to 34 and 22(warrior and mage) I also played on a PvP server to 43(mage). IT WASNT THAT MUCH HARDER. Get off your high horse and go back to your own thread.

I was joking. :D And here I thought I was being nice by using the group hug picture instead of the giant pink carebear.

:(

We're just trying to be helpful! Don't take too much offense!

- Arkans

Arkans's Fun Facts: Dance parties with opposing factions don't happen nearly as much on PvP servers!

[Anebriated]

If every time someone from the RP server speaks up and is responded with carebear how do you expect us to respond?

Err.. I mean.. That is the term for PvE players. It's like getting upset by being called a message board user.

- Arkans

[Anebriated]

The server you play on does not directly dictate how you play the game. You could play on a PvP server but never go to the battlegrounds or seek out fights. On the other hand you could be on a RP server and frequent the BG's or go in search of fights. When I play on AD I generally leave my pvp flag on just to look for fights. What annoys me is when the people from the PvP server act like gods gift to mankind and claim that I dont PvP because of the server I am on.

That'd be a valid point, Elrodin, if it gave an accurate picture. On a PvP server you can try to avoid fights, never frequent BGs, but you still WILL be involved in PvP. Simple as that. Unless you stand there like a boob, you're going to eventually get better.

On PvE server, people go there becasue they don't want constant PvP. Whether if they don't like it, suck at it, or just prefer killing the different colored monsters that still look the same a million times.

It's because of that that there will always be ribbing of carebears by PvP server players, expecially those on the Horde side (where even on Dunemaul the numbers are growing against us).

Hell, prove everyone wrong, show that you guys can PvP, I'm all for it. I'd love it if you guys were on the same server as us so we'd actually have a guild to have a rival in.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

You could play on a PvP server but never go to the battlegrounds or seek out fights.

Why even bother playing on a PvP server if you don't plan on participating in it? You realize how much of an effort you have to make to avoid PvP on a PvP server? Unless you never do quests outside of your faction territory and then run like a little girl when you see alliance in your sights, you're going to get into PvP. It's just dumb to join and then actively avoid it. May as well go to an RP or Normal server.

After playing on this server for a while, I came to realize that playing on anything else doesn't make sense (although the RP-PvP server sounds interesting). The Alliance and the Horde are at war. Playing on one of the other servers and seeing Horde and Alliance getting along and questing together is almost insulting to me now. Even though that happens on PvP servers as well, its not tolerated as well and you will be killed/shunned for it sooner or later.

[Anebriated]

While that is true how can you call someone whose only PvP action comes when other people attack you, a PvP'er? I am sorry but if you dont actively search for fights then you are just as bad as any of the people who are true carebears.

Ill use the dhe'nar thread as an example. Anyone can say they are dhe'nar by putting the tag at the end of their name, but only a select few actually RP it.

edit: pwned by CT :(

[Edited on 7-27-2005 by Elrodin]

No one is really like that, well, I take it back.. It is such a rarity though. People go to PvP servers just for that.. The added realism, the pvp, and the difficulty factor.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Elrodin
If every time someone from the RP server speaks up and is responded with carebear how do you expect us to respond?

At this point I refer to 90% of all Alliance players as carebears, because frankly, unless they're playing on Mal'Ganis, they're taking the easy way out.

[Anebriated]

Why even bother playing on a PvP server if you don't plan on participating in it? You realize how much of an effort you have to make to avoid PvP on a PvP server? Unless you never do quests outside of your faction territory and then run like a little girl when you see alliance in your sights, you're going to get into PvP. It's just dumb to join and then actively avoid it. May as well go to an RP or Normal server.

I am not saying its a good idea at all. I just want to point out that just because someone plays on the server it doesnt mean they get in line with the rest of the sheep. At one point 3 of the HP members were in the top rankings on the server, yet they are still labelled as carebears because of the server they play on.

And the fact that you only need a fraction of the kills on that server that you would on any respectable PvP server. I remember seeing a screen shot that Izalude posted. Around half the characters on both sides didn't have ANY rank and they were mid 30's! I was floored by that.

- Arkans

If one post in a thread derails the thread, and you have to move it into it's own thread...you guys should put a little note at the beginning of the thread noting that it was moved from another subject.

That way it might be a little more clear that I just made one joke in another thread, instead of it appearing that I started a new thread to discuss it. :D

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Elrodin
I am not saying its a good idea at all. I just want to point out that just because someone plays on the server it doesnt mean they get in line with the rest of the sheep. At one point 3 of the HP members were in the top rankings on the server, yet they are still labelled as carebears because of the server they play on.

And I'm just saying that PvP is practically unavoidable on a PvP server, regardless of whether you actively seek it out or not. It will come to you regardless. The whole point is to be able to attack and kill those of the opposite faction at will.

If you enjoy both RP and PvP but enjoy the RP aspect more, go to a RP server. But I think what people are saying about those that brag of their PvP status on a non-PvP server is that it's not the same thing as playing on a pure PvP server. On RP and Normal servers you can hide behind not putting up your flag or attacking someone of the opposite side. You don't have that option on PvP so you have to face and deal with it. You improve whether you like it or not.

Why choose a server and then go against the premise of it? Seems crazy to me.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
If one post in a thread derails the thread, and you have to move it into it's own thread...you guys should put a little note at the beginning of the thread noting that it was moved from another subject.

That way it might be a little more clear that I just made one joke in another thread, instead of it appearing that I started a new thread to discuss it. :D

You're absolutely right. I edited out the first post to reflect that. :)

Found a screenshot that the guys from HP sent me!

Regardless, no one really is going to servers and fighting against the premise. They go to a server because they want to be on that server for that reason. It's why I went to Dunemaul. I wanted to be Horde and I wanted to be on a PvP server.. It was a match made in heaven.

- Arkans

[Landrion]

I must admit, I find the concept of PvP a little difficult to understand in a game that has next to no penalty for death.

I took a swipe at the first alliance guy I ever saw. Got dropped, corpse walked and got dropped again. Took the mighty 2 silver repair penalty and rezzed in the GY. Kind of underwhelming.

Heck, even if someone corpse camped you you could just switch to an alt and play a few quests for an hour or the rest of the night.

Admittedly, Im green ass new, so maybe the repair penalty becomes very beastly later or Im just not getting it. But even when the mobs kill me its like "so what?".

In any event, what I do like about PvE is I can get into a fight anytime I want. But I can also choose when I want to be left alone and do something else for a while. So I wonder what Im missing.

[DeV]

I think the different servers are also dependent on what you can expect from a PvP standpoint depending on your level range, v. PvE and RP.

The first couple of levels seem to be exactly the same regardless if you're on a PvP, PvE or RP server, from my experience. At least at my current level of 17, I've seen only a handful of Alliance and have not engaged in PvP with anyone from Alliance yet. I can't wait to though! I don't expect to be involved in much PvP at all until I reach the 20s on up, except for duels, which are more so tests of skill and ability anyway.

From playing on Argent Dawn, SkullCrusher (high pop PvP server), and Nerjzul(sp), none of them compare to Dunemaul in terms of their numbers being greater but, I can't speak for the Alliance side. I witnessed more harrassment from members of one's own faction on the high pop Skullcrusher/Argent Dawn than I did on any of the other servers. Dunemaul is really great in that although it is a PvP server there is not as much of an influx of trigger happy fools ready to battle at every corner at the lower or mid-levels from what I've seen so far. It may also be that people would rather devote that energy against members of the Alliance instead of their own side.


Edited for spelling.. might have missed some though.

[Edited on 7-27-2005 by DeV]

[Back]

Good god people. Play what you like, mind your own business, and STFU about this stupid argument already! ALLA YOUEZZZZ!

[Aesur]

[i] People go to PvP servers just for that.. The added realism, the pvp, and the difficulty factor.

- Arkans

Quoted for humor

[Izalude]

:deadhorse:

Thank you Backlash.

[Izalude]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by Elrodin
If every time someone from the RP server speaks up and is responded with carebear how do you expect us to respond?

At this point I refer to 90% of all Alliance players as carebears, because frankly, unless they're playing on Mal'Ganis, they're taking the easy way out.

Archimonde has an imbalance of Horde to Alliance tipped in the Horde's favor. Same with Illidan. It's 1.2 to 1 roughly, according to people on their servers. I'm sure people on those servers aren't 'taking the easy way out'.

You know what? Why don't you guys make a character or two on the Rp-PvP server? We all start from scratch, and you can see how good, (or bad) we all really are. We could be the same faction or opposing faction. We're starting a guild there, Horde side, and you're all welcome to join it. I'll post more information once the guild is up and running. At least with this guild you won't have names like, "Soccermom" or "Addidaspwn". Generally people are a bit more mature.

[CrystalTears]

Everyone keeps talking about the RP-PvP server but have they said when that would become reality?

Besides, I've invested too much time already on my character now. I don't have the strength to start over again somewhere else. I don't have that much time to dedicate to the game as it is.

[Anebriated]

So according to you a RPer on a PvP server is a PvPer and a PvPer on a RP server is a RPer? Thats like saying a German in France is French. The game is exactly what you make of it, and to label someones style of play by the server they play on is just stupid.

[Lyonis]

Now that I’ve progressed to the higher levels in the game I have even more of an appreciation for the PvP servers. In the last two weeks I’ve been farming mats for some Stormshroud pieces. Air essences sell for between 25-30g and water essences are around 10g on our server. Needless to say these are high demand items and even at O’dark early there’s ALWAYS someone else there farming them. To my dismay it’s usually a decent sized group of alliance.

On a PvP server if the enemy is in your farming spot and you can’t beat them you aren’t farming. On anything else you have your handy dandy Carebear flag to ignore the enemy and go about your business. A player on a PvP server has a whole level of stubbornness that the average player on a RP/PvE server isn’t ready to deal with.

This thread and the Hyjal thread are two perfect examples of Carebear activity. You call our name out and then whine when we got something to say in response.

Dunemaul>Carebears

[SnatchWrangler]

Yeah, what Lyonis said.

I wonder if Hillsbrad was ever a completely un-questable area on Argent Dawn...

[Izalude]

Any time there's trench warfare going on in Hillsbrad, then it's completely unquestable.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Elrodin
So according to you a RPer on a PvP server is a PvPer and a PvPer on a RP server is a RPer? Thats like saying a German in France is French. The game is exactly what you make of it, and to label someones style of play by the server they play on is just stupid.

Nah, if someone wants to PvP, it doesn't matter which server they are on. However what I am saying is that going to a server to specifically not do what it's purpose is a contradictory action. Why go to an RP server if you have no intent of roleplaying? Why go to a PvP server if you don't wish to ever get involved in PvP?

I personally don't care, do as you wish, play where you want, I don't call people carebears for playing on any kind of server or faction. However I do feel that PvP is much different from an RP server to a PvP one. It's completely different.

[DeV]

It's different but not at lower levels, period

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Izalude
Any time there's trench warfare going on in Hillsbrad, then it's completely unquestable.

How? Can't you just turn off your PvP flag and go along your way?

[CrystalTears]

Yeah lower levels as in before 20. After that, you're kinda screwed. :D

[Anebriated]

Nah, if someone wants to PvP, it doesn't matter which server they are on. However what I am saying is that going to a server to specifically not do what it's purpose is a contradictory action. Why go to an RP server if you have no intent of roleplaying? Why go to a PvP server if you don't wish to ever get involved in PvP?

Who says you cant PvP and RP at the same time. I will be the first to admit PvP is not the same on AD as it is on the PvP servers. I just hate being labelled a carebear every time I post in a WoW thread because I chose to join friends on a RP server. I guess I will just start ignoring the comments, after all I could call Arkans gay but that doesn't make it true(dress style and coming out of closet post aside)

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Elrodin
So according to you a RPer on a PvP server is a PvPer and a PvPer on a RP server is a RPer? Thats like saying a German in France is French. The game is exactly what you make of it, and to label someones style of play by the server they play on is just stupid.

It’s more like this. A German going to France is going to have to play by France’s rules regardless of how they do things in Germany. For the sake of argument we’ll say that Germans are socialist weenies that use protectionist policies to cater to German businesses. We’re going to call this their “PvP flag”. These Germans are used to being able to be bailed out whenever things get too rough.

Now in France they’re capitalists, no intervention from the powers that be and all that laissez faire goodness. We’re going to say France has no “PvP flag”. Now regardless of what these Germans think when they touch soil in France they’re capitalists now because that is the rules of the land they dwell in.

Same goes for France, you can think you’re still in the land of freedom but when you’re in Germany you’re forced to play by the German’s rules. You may think everything is the same until you try and take over a German’s business and he pulls out his “PvP flag”.

To assume you can play differently then the rules set out by your realm type is stupid. I imagine I’d find someone bragging about his PvP skills on a RP server about as out of place as the idiots having inter-faction dance parties on our server.

[CrystalTears]

You keep missing my point, and I'm getting a headache, so I'm just going to say "You're right" and not say anymore.

[Anebriated]

Bend the rules without breaking. If you walk around a RP server with your pvp flag on you will find action.

btw, I figured it would have been the french with the pvp flags...

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Yeah lower levels as in before 20. After that, you're kinda screwed. :D I can't wait... and you know, this time I'll refrain from making an innuendo even though you make it so damn easy for me. :P But you're right, I can't even speak for the upper levels and can't even imagine how much different it will be.

[Anebriated]

You keep missing my point, and I'm getting a headache, so I'm just going to say "You're right" and not say anymore.

I saw your point it was just irrevelent to what I am trying to show, same goes with the majority of the other posts in this thread. You are still built up on the "There is no reason to join a PvP server to PvE all the time". I understand that, I was only using it as a could-happen scenerio as a balance to my scenerio. I am trying to say that you can still pvp on a RP server.


How? Can't you just turn off your PvP flag and go along your way?

If you have been in any pvp there is a 5 minute timer after you turn it off before it shuts off.

[CrystalTears]

I am trying to say that you can still pvp on a RP server.

And I am trying to say that it's not the same type of interaction no matter how you slice it.

On anything but an PvP server, you always have the option to avoid PvP. On PvP servers, your only option to avoid PvP is to hide in stealth or invisible mode in an inn or city and never do your quests.

In RP and PvE, you go out of your way to PvP, on PvP servers you live it daily. I'm not saying either one is better as it's all according to preference, just saying that it's not the same animal on other servers.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Elrodin


How? Can't you just turn off your PvP flag and go along your way?

If you have been in any pvp there is a 5 minute timer after you turn it off before it shuts off.

So...I'm not sure why Izalude is saying it's impossible to quest in Hillsbrad when there's alot of fighting going on with those rules. Just don't attack anyone and you can quest to your heart's content, right? Worst case scenario, you accidently attack someone and flag yourself, you get killed, you wait 5 minutes and you're back to "nobody can mess with me" mode.

[Androidpk]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

I am trying to say that you can still pvp on a RP server.
In RP and PvE, you go out of your way to PvP, on PvP servers you live it daily. I'm not saying either one is better as it's all according to preference, just saying that it's not the same animal on other servers.

QFT

[Anebriated]

And I am trying to say that it's not the same type of interaction no matter how you slice it.

Never said it was the same. In fact I said it wasnt.


I will be the first to admit PvP is not the same on AD as it is on the PvP servers


Sure you have the option to turn the flag on and off. I chose the option to leave my pvp flag on all the time. Do I die alot because of it? Sure, but this way I still get to PvP while questing and I get to play on the server with my friends. Since Ipurchased the game I have said that they need to make a RP-PvP server.

Originally posted by Elrodin
[quote]
Sure you have the option to turn the flag on and off. I chose the option to leave my pvp flag on all the time. Do I die alot because of it? Sure, but this way I still get to PvP while questing and I get to play on the server with my friends. Since Ipurchased the game I have said that they need to make a RP-PvP server.

And you would get killed a lot more on a PvP server. Half the carebears over there won't attack you because doing so would turn their PvP on for 5 minutes. :D

All carebear jokes aside, I don't think anyone is saying that you are a coward in real life because you play on a RP server (except Arkans). Sure, we are all thinking it, but no one has actually come out and SAID it.

(33.333333% of the above post was made in jest)

Fuck yeah he's a coward. Fucking carebear dickhead probably sleeps with a carebear night light. Worthless sack of flesh. Delete this fucker's posts.

- Arkans

[Edited on 7-27-2005 by Arkans]

[Anebriated]

^^ OMG PHUNNY GUY

And you know it's true cuz he spelled it with a PH

- Arkans

[Anebriated]

But there is no profanity. How can something be true without fucking profanity.

I'm sure we can be lenient and use the "Using the Lord's name in vain" as profanity.

- Arkans

[Anebriated]

fair enough.

[Numbers]

Originally posted by Lyonis
This thread and the Hyjal thread are two perfect examples of Carebear activity. You call our name out and then whine when we got something to say in response.


Bullshit.

Every-single-time this argument has come up on these boards, it is ALWAYS started by somebody on the PvP side calling the RPers carebears or some other shit. That's what happened on the Hyjal thread, and whether it was meant as a jest or not, it had no place on that thread. It was completely irrelevant to the point of that thread, and I'm glad the mods split the thread.

The fact of the matter is, they're two completely different styles of play. I joined an RP server because, typically, the players there are more mature. And from my experiences on both an RP and PvP server, this indeed holds true. Additionally, I wanted to play the game and focus on my character and have fun. I did not want to deal with the frustration of some 13 year old brat jerking off onto an old rag after he corpse camped me for an hour. My time and schedule is unpredictable; when I play the game, I want to be able to go in, get something accomplished, and be able to leave whenever I need to.

Now, I don't think anybody on the RP server has ever claimed that the PvP server isn't more difficult. By all rights it is, as you're forced to deal with those epeen stroking punks who can easily disrupt you in anything you're trying to do. But the claim that people on PvP servers are somehow better is pure and utter crap. Are there more skilled PvPers there? Absolutely. This does not mean, however, that somebody from an RP server couldn't put up a challenge. To be blunt, PvP in this game takes very little skill at all for most classes. It's a rocks-papers-scissors game in most cases.

Fact is, the only reason this thread even exists is because somebody from a PvP server started it on the HP thread, and people defended themselves from yet another idiotic thread derailment. Would you appreciate it if the HP'ers made a bunch of posts in the HoR thread for the sole purpose of derailing it?

This is exactly what people have been talking about. Sure, to the uneducated in PvP, you're just mashing buttons and hoping you come across a class that you can pwn. It's not the case. WoW has a pretty good PvP tactic and any class can win against any one. Some may be more difficult than others, but it all boils down to skill.

If it was easy, that level 55 Hunter would have punked my sorry 57 level ass when I was at 11% health. In reality, I made him turn tail and run and made him my bitch.

Also, you call us "stupid Dunemaul" or whatever, but the second we call you carebears you fly off the handle like we called you a bunch of dirty niggers. Calm down. You are what you are.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Heh, it derailed there too and I had to split it there as well. It happens all the time on both sides so I'm not about to say who does it more.

[Izalude]

It's impossible to quest because of the server lag Trench warfare causes in Hillsbrad. Even with a kickass video card and processor, the server gets so laggy that you can't get anything done.

:rofl: SERVER LAG IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Try having to be a ninja assassin or you get ganked by marauding Alliance. Now THAT's tough.

- Arkans

[Izalude]

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse:
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse:
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse:
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse:
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse:

[CrystalTears]

Okay, Izalude. We get it. It's a beating on a dead horse issue. And you know what it's about. You've posted this twice now. Don't go into the thread and let the people who wish to discuss/debate the issue as much as they want. You're not helping at all.

[Aesur]

Wtf debate or discussion? Why am I on an RP server? It's not to avoid PVP. It's to avoid the people on PVP servers. And all of these damn threads just reinforce my belief that I chose wisely.

I don't know if all of you were such assholes before you started playing WoW or if you just absorb it and become it being on a PVP server. Either way, I'll enjoy staying on my RP server thanks.

Maybe in a few months you people might be able to discuss things civilly and intelligently on these boards, without the auto-reply "whatever,stfu carebear", but I doubt it.

[Alfster]

My main two characters are both on the carebear server.

I guess it means I only have a 3 inch e-weiner

whatever,stfu carebear

- Arkans

[Meos]

I play on feathermoon, which is an rp server. I'm flagged most the time I'm out in the world waitin to get pvp games, farmin, traveling for instances. I welcome a good fight when I can find it. Most the time I run into people who call for help and won't flag till they could zerg me down. But ya also run into some people that will flag, then bow, then have a good old fight to the death.

PvP servers... not personaly played on one long... I would imagin ya gotta deal with alot of gank squads and people wanting to fuck up your quests. Thats not fun to me... thats just more hastle then I want.. Call me a carebear... but I play a mean ms/enrage warrior.. and been known to take down some pretty good mages and shadow priests.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by 3704558

Originally posted by Lyonis
This thread and the Hyjal thread are two perfect examples of Carebear activity. You call our name out and then whine when we got something to say in response.


Bullshit.

Every-single-time this argument has come up on these boards, it is ALWAYS started by somebody on the PvP side calling the RPers carebears or some other shit.

You post with the fervor and conviction of someone who deeply believes he/she is right. Too bad you’re not. This is the first post in the Hyjal thread and as of this time it is unedited still.


Originally posted by Tayre
Since the stupid Dunemaul guild gets a thread, so do we! Make requests and stuff here for the obviously suprerior (carebear) guild.


This was the next post in the thread.


Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
I request you reroll PvP.

FOR THE HORDE!

::duck::

Personally I took them both to be in jest but someone in Hyjal mentioned our “stupid” guild first. If no one had made references to the Dunemaulers I would completely agree with you and support you wanting to keep your thread to yourselves but for the time being you’ve opened yourself up to a few wisecracks.

It was like this one time I was at a BBQ at a friend’s house. His wife had on a T-Shirt that said, “Stupid Factory, where boys are made”. It was a funny shirt but it certainly lends itself to a few smart assed comments thrown your way. Somehow she attempted to take the moral high ground and assert that she has the right to wear that shirt and we should be silent.

Personally I’ve not posted in the Hyjal thread and have no interest in doing so in the future. Now you certainly have the right to speak about our guild in your own thread if you so wish, just don’t be surprised when someone barks back.

[Back]

Ok so one word, not even a serious one, gets three pages of grief???

Go back and read the Dunemaul guilds thread, post three pages of examples of people going PVP U R SUXOR! then come back and cry about it.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Backlash
Ok so one word, not even a serious one, gets three pages of grief???

Go back and read the Dunemaul guilds thread, post three pages of examples of people going PVP U R SUXOR! then come back and cry about it.

First the point was that it was the PvP crowd that started it. So I prove that’s not the case. Now it was just a silly comment and we over reacted. I’ve previously posted the first two posts in the Hyjal thread. The fourth post is authored by Izalude and in response to the previously quoted comment by Snatch…


Originally posted by Izalude
Go back to Dunemaul. Quit attempting to derail our thread. You have several of your own to do just that.



Sounds to me like someone got upset over nothing but now it’s fault of the PvPers. Imagine that, the Carebears like to make up the rules as they go along.

Originally posted by Alfster
I guess it means I only have a 3 inch e-weiner

:lol:


Originally posted by 3704558

I did not want to deal with the frustration of some 13 year old brat jerking off onto an old rag after he corpse camped me for an hour.

You post this every time the subject comes up. Just because you got your ass handed to you does not mean the other player is a 13 year old brat jerking off into a rag. If you have to tell that to yourself to make up for your own inadequacies, that's one thing, but I just wanted to point out that your skewed perspective is a few miles east of reality.

Maybe you were joking, like I was when I said you guys can't get past lvl 10, or when I implied Elrodin was a coward in real life...but somehow I doubt it.

P.S. -- People on RP servers dress up in druid/paladin/warlock/mage outfits while they are playing the game at their house.

Please.. 13 year old jerking off. I'm in my 20's... and I only jerk off when I corpse camp.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

I used to feel that way about PvP servers, that I wouldn't be able to get anything done because alliance were always ganking me. In some ways, it's true, and at younger levels its more frustrating because you really don't have much chance to do any harm or stay alive.

I will say though, after sticking it out and reaching 31 (my oldest character yet), the ganking is much more fun, no matter how many times they kill me, because I know that I have a better chance of coming back and destroying them. Having friends help is great, but the excitement is just as great. I'm sucked into the game all over again and having a great time.

I can't wait until I get around the levels of the other guys in the guild and do raids with them. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/yahoo.gif

It can get tough at the higher levels (Sub 60, really) since you get to see how badly the Horde is usually out numbered, at least in WPL, not sure about EPL, but I assume it's just as bad. Fucking fun as hell though.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
It can get tough at the higher levels (Sub 60, really) since you get to see how badly the Horde is usually out numbered, at least in WPL, not sure about EPL, but I assume it's just as bad. Fucking fun as hell though.

- Arkans

Eastern Plaguelands is probable worse than Western. Not sure why...but in Western the Alliance seem to be concentrated near Sorrow Hill, and you can find maybe one or two near the Hearthglen area all the way north.

In Eastern Plaguelands, there's always 4-15 farmers in Tyr's Hand, plus you have Alliance raid groups forming up for Strath over near the Chapel. I always come across more Alliance in Eastern than in Western.

This going to be a loooooooong Trek to 60 then. Hehehe

- Arkans

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Meos
PvP servers... not personaly played on one long... I would imagin ya gotta deal with alot of gank squads and people wanting to fuck up your quests. Thats not fun to me... thats just more hastle then I want.. Call me a carebear... but I play a mean ms/enrage warrior.. and been known to take down some pretty good mages and shadow priests.

That's the part I hate most about PvP servers... Stupid f-ing alliance camping places they know we have to go for a quest. I don't mind the ganking so much anymore, but the "quest camping" really bugs me.

Questing camping? Where? The only part that it kind of happens is Nessingwary's. This place can be avoided though.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Arkans
Questing camping? Where? The only part that it kind of happens is Nessingwary's. This place can be avoided though.

- Arkans

There is almost always an Alliance member in Hillsbrad Fields. There are enemy critters everywhere, and a few named "boss" types... and none of them attack Alliance.

Same deal at Stromgarde Keep in Arathi. Where can my Horde character go to hide behind friendly critters and cockblock quests? :D

The farm with all the orcs in Arathi is the only place I know.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
This going to be a loooooooong Trek to 60 then. Hehehe

- Arkans

I found questing and Winterspring and Felwood to be good from 55-60 (along with EXP from quests from BRD and LBRS).

Hell, I probably did about 4 quests combined from Eastern Plaguelands, Blasted Lands, Searing Gorge, and the Burning Steppes. I think the first time I stepped foot in Blasted Lands was a month ago (and I've been 60 for 2+ months).

Burning Steppes is completely unquestable. I was the only Horde there was bands of marauding Alliance. Winterspring wasn't THAT bad, I might go back there again.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

I'm wondering if the carebear servers ever have to go through what we went through last night (which ended up in us canceling our UBRS run because 3-4 Alliance groups were there which turned into a massacre where corpse camping ensued), or do they just throw out a picnic blanket near the meeting stone and sip thistle tea together...

[Odups]

Should any of us even respond? Or is that getting defensive? Or whatever you'll call it?

Alorg, I'm going to throw out there (as I did last night) that the UBRS run fell apart not because of the Alliance groups there, but the fact that we couldn't get a full group together for 2 whole hours. People were getting tired of waiting (non-guild members) and you can't really blame them if they need to wait that long.

Sure, I get fed up with the Alliance ganking me (5 to 1 ratio is NOT winnable.. well, maybe if I solo'd but I had to keep Dar and Bayne alive), but it really wasn't the nail in the coffin. Most people wern't even there. I think I only really saw Kagg, Dar, Bayne, myself, and one guy from BoB, I believe it was. It was a cluster fuck, but not because of PvP reasons.

- Arkans

[Jadewolff]

I've had about 2 or 3 altercations on our way into UBRS (I've done it about 5 times now) where we get into fights with the Horde. Funny enough, even though I'm a warlock, I've never once feared into the instance or even off the balcony the way I've seen the horde priests do.

To answer your question no, it has never interfered with whether or not we actually ran the instance. No one corpse camped or quit after a couple of deaths while waiting for people to head over.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Jadewolff]

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
Alorg, I'm going to throw out there (as I did last night) that the UBRS run fell apart not because of the Alliance groups there, but the fact that we couldn't get a full group together for 2 whole hours. People were getting tired of waiting (non-guild members) and you can't really blame them if they need to wait that long.

but it really wasn't the nail in the coffin. Most people wern't even there. I think I only really saw Kagg, Dar, Bayne, myself, and one guy from BoB, I believe it was. It was a cluster fuck, but not because of PvP reasons.

- Arkans

We had 14, we would have been fine. We'd done Drakk with 13 before. Even if we couldn't...oh well, he's one boss out of 5 there. Kagg wasn't there, and HH (from BoB) died outside, so...I don't know who you're talking about.

You don't think the other (non-guildies) frustration could have been generated by the fact they were killed and camped for nearly an hour? I know it was pissing me off, and I wasn't the one dying/being camped.

edit: Yes, I think it was a clusterfuck due to PvP reasons. If everyone had gone to BRM together, and went into the instance, we could have worried about adding another party member later if we really needed it. Frankly, there's one item from UBRS I want, and I'm going to have to roll against 6-8 other people for it everytime it drops (Painweaver Band). So really, I was doing it for the guild, and it pissed me off that we looked so damn noobish getting rolled by a bunch of paladins for an hour.

From now on we ALWAYS meet up in Kargoth and head in together. No more flying into Burning Steppes or Searing Gorge and riding in 2 at a time.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by SnatchWrangler]

Kagg wasn't there? You've got to be kidding me. I saw him with my own two eyes hanging out on the balcony. When we got ambushed, I guess he was AFK and Bayne yelled out.. MOVE KAGG. I remember I hesitated to meet the Alliance because I didn't want to leave him alone. He *WAS* there.

The fact is.. It was Hounds that were getting killed (and there really wasn't that much camping going on, the Alliance were just gathering and heading in). The fact that we didn't have the full group there at all.. period, when we were saying we wanted the run for 6pm server time. The fact that you guys were still LOOKING for a priest at when we had a 14 man group and I even recall Scynd for saying "Well, next time we'll just get a priest first"

C'mon man, this stuff was all over the /guild and /raid chat. It was a gaggle fuck thirty minutes into it.

- Arkans

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
We had 14, we would have been fine. We'd done Drakk with 13 before. Kagg wasn't there, and HH (from BoB) died outside, so...I don't know who you're talking about.

You don't think the other (non-guildies) frustration could have been generated by the fact they were killed and camped for nearly an hour? I know it was pissing me off, and I wasn't the one dying/being camped.

I died 4 or 5 times, but I never got camped. I was just waiting for everyone else to drag their asses to the instance entrance :D. I raised 2 times right in front of a group of 15, then turned around and ran out the doors while dropping earthbind totems as I could.

Escaping was no problem. The only problem would have been getting past the group of 15 on the balcony...and that could have been easily done by leapfrogging my corpse and rezzing, rinse and repeat.

Seriously, I couldn't have cared less about the dying. I was just blowing time and waiting for people to finally show up.

[Odups]

If anything, worry about starting Molten Core raids, that window gets awfully crowded when people are gathering. Between some people lagging into lava and gankings that'll be hell.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
Kagg wasn't there? You've got to be kidding me. I saw him with my own two eyes hanging out on the balcony.

Then he wasn't there in the beginning when it just you, Dar, and Shadowmane getting killed (along with the two from the Lunatic Fringe.)


The fact is.. It was Hounds that were getting killed (and there really wasn't that much camping going on, the Alliance were just gathering and heading in).

Then apparently you weren't outside, because I don't think the druid with us even made it into the instance. She had 6 people standing in a circle around her after she died for the 4th time for nearly 10 minutes.

For you guys that were inside, maybe it wasn't 'camping', maybe it was just that there was 3 raid groups of Alliance all heading in, and any time someone rezzed another group of 3-8 Alliance were walking in.


The fact that we didn't have the full group there at all.. period, when we were saying we wanted the run for 6pm server time. The fact that you guys were still LOOKING for a priest at when we had a 14 man group and I even recall Scynd for saying "Well, next time we'll just get a priest first"

I know you're relatively new to the end game raids so just trust me in saying you're a little wrong here. You won't believe some of the make-shift groups Scynd and I have put together. A priest would have made it much easier, and like I said, worse comes to worst, we wipe on Drakk a couple times and throw in the towel. Nothing else in UBRS would have posed a problem.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Odups
If anything, worry about starting Molten Core raids, that window gets awfully crowded when people are gathering. Between some people lagging into lava and gankings that'll be hell.

Yeah, thankfully, it being a small pop server there's only 3 (maybe 4) Alliance guilds even doing MC.

I lagged into the lava last night...right onto that little rock path shortcut at the bottom of the chain near MC/BRD. Of course, I was still laggy when I hit the lava, so I ended up then burning to death. Good times...

On the bright side, after watching BOC get rolled (for those non-Dunemaulers...they're pretty much the best Horde guild), me and 4 of them killed a half dozen Alliance outside. Then the rest of the BOC raid showed up and we wiped the 20+ Alliance that were still scattered around inside.

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
So really, I was doing it for the guild, and it pissed me off that we looked so damn noobish getting rolled by a bunch of paladins for an hour.

From now on we ALWAYS meet up in Kargoth and head in together. No more flying into Burning Steppes or Searing Gorge and riding in 2 at a time.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by SnatchWrangler]

Dude, you have a skewed perception of what happened.

We did not get rolled by paladins for an hour. I'm not even sure where you are coming up with half this stuff.

You have a good point about Kargath, and I'll gladly follow that plan, provided it doesn't include me standing in Kargath for an hour waiting for a group to arrive.

And please, you have to stop bragging that you have nothing to gain in the Raid and you are only their for the guild. Do you really think Bayne and I are there because we are just dying to get items? I'm there to hunt with the guild, but that doesn't mean that I should keep telling anyone that will listen that they should count my presence as a personal favor, and don't forget to applaud my selflessness.

The start wasn't the problem. It was when we were getting into the hour + waiting when Kagg and more people started showing up. When more and more Hounds started getting there. That's when shit really started to go sour. At first.. big deal, die a few times..B-O-O H-O-O

It was different raid groups, though. I know that because I always look at guild tags whenever I see Alliance just to see if any Crappy Diem members are there to kill. Nothing of the like was there and guild tags, as well as people, started changing. Not to mention we were hanging out inside for about 10-15 minutes with no action what so ever.

I'll be the first to admit I'm a nooblet when it comes to this shit. The thing is though, I also know, that if we are waiting for 2 hours and nothing happens, people are going to be leaving. I remember an hour into the waiting Kagg (I think it was) that we needed to get this rolling or we're going to lose people. He was responded to that we were still looking for a Priest. Fine, whatever, but why spend all that time and effort looking for a Priest when we could still 14 manned it? We were pretty Shaman heavy so there was SOME healing power to be had.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
Dude, you have a skewed perception of what happened.

We did not get rolled by paladins for an hour. I'm not even sure where you are coming up with half this stuff.

By the time I got into BRM, I saw about 6 paladins. By far the majority of the Alliance there. That was just my point of view, I have no idea what classes you guys were fighting earlier.


And please, you have to stop bragging that you have nothing to gain in the Raid and you are only their for the guild. Do you really think Bayne and I are there because we are just dying to get items? I'm there to hunt with the guild, but that doesn't mean that I should keep telling anyone that will listen that they should count my presence as a personal favor, and don't forget to applaud my selflessness.

Bragging? Wow...did I offend you in some way? If you couldn't tell, I have alot of pride in our group and want us to do well. I want you guys to have better gear, because it'll help everyone when we get to MC. I was fucking thrilled for Arkans when he picked up 3 high level blue items last weekend on his first night of "end game" type instances.

I've instanced my ass off and have all my stuff, so yeah...I'm really not in it for the items anymore. I plan on having my armor set via the PvP system, so yes, I'm not running UBRS for loot because it'll be replaced by the epic PvP set over the next month.

I do it for fun, to get others geared up, and a chance to run the end game instances with you guys (and to drag you away from your alts). I said over on our forums, the most fun I had in awhile was last Friday when I ran a couple instances with a bunch of you. It's not a personal favor to anyone, I like running UBRS, I'm glad I put together a key, and I'm glad we have a guild that can (almost...) field a full raid there now.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
I remember an hour into the waiting Kagg (I think it was) that we needed to get this rolling or we're going to lose people. He was responded to that we were still looking for a Priest. Fine, whatever, but why spend all that time and effort looking for a Priest when we could still 14 manned it? We were pretty Shaman heavy so there was SOME healing power to be had.

- Arkans

Heh, I think that was me that agreed with you about losing people. I looked at the clock and just had a feeling the Chief Beef was going to pull a "I got disconnected at exactly 11:45pm EST (again) and for some reason just couldn't log back in (again)." :lol:

Scynd likes to be better safe than sorry. With 14 people, 1 druid, and no priests, I'm not sure if we could have beaten Drakk (the last boss there), but I was more than willing to give it a shot. And if not, eh...Rend drops some great stuff, we really need to get a Finkles for Kagg, and the possibility for some other nice drops for the guild are also around there from some of the lesser bosses.

Others will agree, even with a well balanced group of skilled players, every now and then Drakk is just a bitch to take down.

One of the reasons why we didn't get going right away with 14 was because 3 of us died (I lagged out and fell into the lava :no: ) and the fucking game sent us to the Alterac Valley graveyard. That was another 15 minute setback.

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Bragging? Wow...did I offend you in some way?

You didn't offend me, it's just seems that you mention it before/after/or during every raid.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about upgrading items. I'm just there to hunt with you, Bayne, Kagg, Arkans, etc. to have some fun.

And what gear do you NEED to do MC? I already have 100% fire resistance.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
Heh, I think that was me that agreed with you about losing people. I looked at the clock and just had a feeling the Chief Beef was going to pull a "I got disconnected at exactly 11:45pm EST (again) and for some reason just couldn't log back in (again)." :lol:


My problem with it is you are always "LET'S GO BAYNE, WE HAVE A GROUP GOING TO UBRS.. GET IN HERE NOW" when it's 8:30pm.. and then we end up going towards the instance by 11:00PM. That's 2 1/2 hours of me standing around milking myself when I could have gotten about 30K experience into Stabbed.

Last night was a complete waste of time and wasn't organized in the least. It made us look like amateurs going to our first big instance.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
You didn't offend me, it's just seems that you mention it before/after/or during every raid.

Eh, alot of times I mention it because I'm letting the other rogues and hunters (fucking ninja hunters rolling on everything...KAGG ;) ) types that I'm not going to be rolling on any gear they may want. I'll pass on the Dal'Rends to other rogues and even hunters, I'll pass on all Shadowcraft stuff for other rogues, and I'll pass on any other weapons, armor, and even epics (except for one ring) to anyone else. Most people like knowing 50% of their competition for a piece of Shadowcraft is bowing out before the raid gets started.


And what gear do you NEED to do MC? I already have 100% fire resistance.

I'm guessing you mean you have a 100 in Fire resist? That's not a percentage...and they say to go in with around 150 in fireresist...and that's UNBUFFED, without totems.

If you have any greens...you're not well equipped for MC. You'll need more +stamina gear, as well as any items that'll boost your total mana pool and fire resist. Basically, you need stuff that boosts your INT, SPI, STA, and fire resist stuff. (Fire resist is more important for melee types...but it's still important for all.)

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
My problem with it is you are always "LET'S GO BAYNE, WE HAVE A GROUP GOING TO UBRS.. GET IN HERE NOW" when it's 8:30pm.. and then we end up going towards the instance by 11:00PM.

That wasn't me last night...Scynd showed up a bit late due to work, which he explained. I was in Kargoth trying to fill holes in the raid, before half the group landed.


Last night was a complete waste of time and wasn't organized in the least. It made us look like amateurs going to our first big instance.

Yeah...I absolutely hate looking bad in front of strangers. Once we get into the instance though, we're pro-champs. Except when Bayne accidently walks too close to Jandice and aggros her while the healers are drinking. :lol:

Well.. I think we need to sit back and consider the goals of the guild. Are we just a band of casual players or we want to continue to aggressively grow and become real competitors on Dunemaul.

I can see both sides of it. Either hunt and have fun or get high end blues to be able to really do damage. Eh, I stand probably somewhere in the middle. I like doing the high end instaces to upgrade and I'll be forever thankful to the likes of Alorg, Scynd, Jaiz, Silthar, and Kagg. You guys are really great. Seriously. On the other hand.. Hunting and ganking Alliance is great and we don't really need the high end instace gears for this all the time, unless it's AV runs.

Basically, the point is this.. If we're going to be become really competitive and aggressive in gaining respect, a larger player base, and power we need a more disciplined eviroment in the guild. Not enough to stifle enjoyment, but something that can help avoid what happened last night. If anything, we can all take something with us and learn from this mistake. Hell, you know me, I'll do my part to help and give back to the guild, just gotta know HOW and WHAT are goals really are.

- Arkans

Scynd didn't arrive THAT late. We just didn't have the man power from the start. To me, it just shows a real weakness in our numbers and how we are desperately short on classes and unfortunately, getting people to roll up as druids and priests isn't an over night fix. It's not even a real fix at all. Because these new members need a huge amount of investment to stay active and stay within the guild.

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
I can see both sides of it. Either hunt and have fun or get high end blues to be able to really do damage. Eh, I stand probably somewhere in the middle. I like doing the high end instaces to upgrade and I'll be forever thankful to the likes of Alorg, Scynd, Jaiz, Silthar, and Kagg. You guys are really great. Seriously. On the other hand.. Hunting and ganking Alliance is great and we don't really need the high end instace gears for this all the time, unless it's AV runs.
- Arkans

For me it's both. Hell, KG clears Molton Core in one night now. Most other guilds do it two nights a week, 3-5 hours per shot. Very few people are doing Blackwing Lair right now due to the difficulty, and I don't think anyone is doing it on the Horde side right now.

Onyxia can be done in under a half hour once you get the hang of it.

There's no reason why you can't do both. You don't need to go on EVERY MC raid, and you don't need to go to Warsong Gulch every night to PvP.

edit: Not sure if you're aware of this Arkans, but these 40 person raid instances basically spawn on a timer and reset once a week. ie, if we go in and kill a boss in Molton Core, it'll be a week until the instance resets and we can kill that boss again.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by SnatchWrangler]

[SnatchWrangler]

Wow...well we've managed to successfully derail this thread, huh?

Should we go back to calling people carebears and move this to our forums?:lol:

[Odups]

Damnit, keep away from the bashing! And fire resist will be fun when you need to get somewhere between 200 and 300 for Ragnaros. Umm, trying to derail you some more :D.