Hauberk or Full Plate?

[Renian]

So, Simutronics gave me back my character reallocations that I didn't use up because I asked and their customer service kicks ass.

However, while the reallocations sexed up my stats for long-term growth and short-term pwnage, I now have to figure out how I want to train, as overall, the reallocations took away TPs.

So, for a locksmithing rogue who wants to have the ability pick pockets as well, but doesn't want to get pwned in combat, should I dump TPs into getting Full Plate, or just stick with Chain Hauberk/MBP?

Here's my info so you know how I'm training, what I'm capable of, and to figure out how many ranks of armor training I would need for either considering stat RT bonuses.

Stats:

Level 0 Stats for Renian, Giant Rogue

Strength (STR): 70
Constitution (CON): 68
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 80
Discipline (DIS): 73
Aura (AUR): 88
Logic (LOG): 73
Intuition (INT): 20
Wisdom (WIS): 88
Influence (INF): 20


New Stats:

Name: Renian Race: Giant Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 46 Expr: 1566935 Level: 37
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 88 (34) ... 88 (34)
Constitution (CON): 81 (25) ... 78 (24)
Dexterity (DEX): 92 (16) ... 92 (16)
Agility (AGI): 94 (17) ... 94 (17)
Discipline (DIS): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Aura (AUR): 95 (17) ... 95 (17)
Logic (LOG): 84 (12) ... 84 (12)
Intuition (INT): 55 (2) ... 55 (2)
Wisdom (WIS): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Influence (INF): 43 (2) ... 43 (2)

Skills:

Renian (at level 37), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 124 32
Shield Use.........................| 138 39
Combat Maneuvers...................| 141 41
Edged Weapons......................| 178 78
Ambush.............................| 178 78
Physical Fitness...................| 138 39
Dodging............................| 178 78
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 217 117
Picking Locks......................| 217 117
Stalking and Hiding................| 178 78
Perception.........................| 178 78
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30


CM is only at 41 because I wanted Combat Mobility really bad, but it's 1x normally.

Arcane Symbols is for scarab disarm and Broken Lands entry.

[Celexei]

Full Plate!

[Himmy]

If you ask me, MBP is the way to go. But, that's just me speaking from GS3 rogue experience. I could be way off.

[Drew]

I don't think they are really going to implement the hiding changes, so if you have the points for full plate, go for it. If you have the points for hauberk, wear MBP.

[hectomaner]

you cant wear full plate until 70, if you are 2xd, so thats quite a ways off. mbp is what my rogues wear, very good substitute, but as soon as they hit 70, its full plate

[Himmy]

Originally posted by hectomaner
you cant wear full plate until 70, if you are 2xd, so thats quite a ways off. mbp is what my rogues wear, very good substitute, but as soon as they hit 70, its full plate

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Artha]

MBP. Same ranks as hauberk, better protection.

[Renian]

MBP. Same ranks as hauberk, better protection.


Yeah, that's retarded. They shouldn't have made it that way; it makes hauberk useless unless there's some really SEXY hauberk with killer crit padding/enchanting, and MBP the win.

Looks like it's MBP for me, and full plate when/if I cap. Using Tsoran's spreadsheet, if I went for full plate immediately, I wouldn't have TPs for other stuff.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Yeah, that's retarded. They shouldn't have made it that way; it makes hauberk useless unless there's some really SEXY hauberk with killer crit padding/enchanting, and MBP the win.>>

There are plenty of people wearing hauberk, dude. MBP is just better for squares, who are supposed to be in heavy armor in the first place.

[Renian]

MBP is just better for squares, who are supposed to be in heavy armor in the first place.


Hm. Forgot about spell hinderance.

[Drew]

Yep, I know rogues who use 410 or 117 usually stick with hauberk. Rangers top out at hauberk as well (unless you are someone crazy like Turinrond who uses full plate).



On the other hand Megaladon casts 117 with minimum hinderance in full plate, but that's not too common.

[Lord Dainslef]

As much as I'd like the full plate, I don't think I"m going past MBP just because it's the best I've found protection-wise. Plus it doesn't actually hinder you as much for guild skills as hauberk. Also, for the most part it weighs less. So, IMO MBP is the way to go.

[Drew]

MBP also has a bonus of +9 defending against CS spells.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Renian
So, for a locksmithing rogue who wants to have the ability pick pockets as well
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 124 32
Shield Use.........................| 138 39
Combat Maneuvers...................| 141 41
Edged Weapons......................| 178 78
Ambush.............................| 178 78
Physical Fitness...................| 138 39
Dodging............................| 178 78
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 217 117
Picking Locks......................| 217 117
Stalking and Hiding................| 178 78
Perception.........................| 178 78
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30


You picking pockets on hopes and dreams?

[Drew]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Renian
So, for a locksmithing rogue who wants to have the ability pick pockets as well
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 124 32
Shield Use.........................| 138 39
Combat Maneuvers...................| 141 41
Edged Weapons......................| 178 78
Ambush.............................| 178 78
Physical Fitness...................| 138 39
Dodging............................| 178 78
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 217 117
Picking Locks......................| 217 117
Stalking and Hiding................| 178 78
Perception.........................| 178 78
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30


You picking pockets on hopes and dreams?


I don't know, with the changes to pick pocketing they rolled in last week I think someone with very low pickpocketing skills can steal from just about anyone with low perception now.

[Darkwood]

i found this thread to be very interesting and it got me to thinking. that being said let me ask a few questions so i can learn something. i was under the assumption that since hauberk covers the whole body its a bit better that mbp. i thought mbp left your appendages unprotected? i use swcp hauberk. is standard mbp superior to this? :?:

[Janarth]

Erm, no. In the day, hauberk was said to be a better package deal then MBP because of the armor bug. Basically, regular AS/DS attacks, hauberk had chain protect everywhere, while MBP had plate on the torso and chain protection everywhere (MBP for the win!). THe partial armor bug, however, treated the limbs for MBP like -no protection- against manuevers (hence the bug), so people were against partial armors a lot. THats since changed, partial armors work best...for a square, no reason to wear hauberk over MBP unless your MBP is 4x and your hauberk is like 6x heavy damage padded or somethin :p. Even then...

[Darkwood]

so even with the somewhat crit padding mbp is better?

[Jonty]

Originally posted by hectomaner
you cant wear full plate until 70, if you are 2xd, so thats quite a ways off. mbp is what my rogues wear, very good substitute, but as soon as they hit 70, its full plate

Yeah, that's what I meant.

You'll be fully trained at 69. It's even possibly at 68 with inter-level training.


I don't know, with the changes to pick pocketing they rolled in last week I think someone with very low pickpocketing skills can steal from just about anyone with low perception now.


What change was that?

[Edited on 7-28-2005 by Jonty]

[hectomaner]

yeah i know, with the extra few ranks you can get to it a little before 70

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Plus it doesn't actually hinder you as much for guild skills as hauberk. Also, for the most part it weighs less. So, IMO MBP is the way to go.>>

MBP hinders you more (consider the pre-CM guild penalties), it just has a lower action penalty so it's easier to defend against some maneuvers (specifically creature maneuvers like roa'ter burrows).

The base weight of armor makes absolutely no difference in encumbrance. Heavier armor is probably more beneficial, because if it's lightened by 10% or made of imflass, more weight is taken off of the base weight. Your encumbrance from armor is determined by your racial chest mod * difference of true armor weight and base armor weight. I think a giant has 1.33 racial mod.. hauberk that weighs 25 pounds lightened to 22 will allow that giant to hold an extra 4 pounds without being encumbered. MBP that weighs 20 lightened to 18 will allow for only 2 extra pounds.

MBP is still better, but it's definitely not because it's lighter.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Darkwood
so even with the somewhat crit padding mbp is better?

Bob will probably crunch the numbers, but...the crit divisor alone goes from...9 to 11? So a rank 6 in hauberk is only a rank 4 in MBP. Padding aside, and equal DFs, you went from a death crit to a rank 4. Now through in the better DFs, AVD...I don't think somewhat level padding makes up the difference. But I'm at work and can't brake out the numbers, I am sure someone else will.

[Renian]

You picking pockets on hopes and dreams?


I didn't say WHEN! :P

Probably when I get 80 armor ranks I'll train in PP again. They are gone for now while I train armor, as armor sucks PTPs out of you like crazy.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Bob will probably crunch the numbers, but...the crit divisor alone goes from...9 to 11? So a rank 6 in hauberk is only a rank 4 in MBP.>>

Yes, crit divisor goes from 9 to 11, but only on chest, abdomen, and back. I can't think of an instance where plate DF is greater than chain DF, so I'm going to say that when it counts, MBP will still do better than somewhat crit padded hauberk. Crit padding is overly glorified. The 4 damage doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as the lower DF in saving you from severe injury/death.

[Darkwood]

thanks bob, you are the math man!

[Drew]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Crit padding is overly glorified. The 4 damage doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as the lower DF in saving you from severe injury/death.



Crit padding does rank in some manuever attacks, sometimes it's overly considered.