How to upset someone that is trying NOT to be Dhe'nar

[Divinity]

toss void at shimm
You quickly flick your black void at Shimmerain, which sets it sailing in a perfect arc. As the black void approaches , it gets larger and larger until it begins to waver.

Suddenly, your black void collapses in on itself with an audible *POP*.

Shimmerain stifles a yawn.

Shimmerain says, "Such a useless trick."

Shimmerain slowly empties his lungs.

You nod to Shimmerain.
l
[Icemule Trace, Town Center]
The bustling town comes together in this square. Halflings dressed in varying fashions stand about, some chattering happily, others reclining on cloaks laid on the ground. One ancient halfling leans against the base of the large ice statue of a mule, snoring blissfully. A feeling of community pervades the area, putting you immediately at ease. You also see a carved ice bench with some stuff on it.
Also here: Nindon, Zademus, Tanthallas, Shimmerain who is sitting
Obvious paths: north, east, south, west


You rub your series of marks tattoo.

You run a hand through your long blue-black hair, trying to make yourself presentable.

You are now speaking Guildspeak.

Speaking in Guildspeak to Shimmerain, you ask, "Given up, have you?"

You raise an eyebrow in Shimmerain's direction.

Shimmerain shakes his head.

Shimmerain asks, "I asked for your help didn't I?"

You wave your hand in a dismissive gesture.

Speaking in Guildspeak, you say, "Here I am and you're still sitting there."

You stifle a yawn.

Shimmerain says, "I'm waiting."

Speaking in Guildspeak, you ask, "For?"

You are now speaking Common.

Shimmerain says, "I watched you do the same for about 10 minuites."

You say, "Interesting since I haven't moved since I've gotten here."

You stare at Shimmerain.

Shimmerain says, "Really."

You say, "Not a very bright one."

Shimmerain asks, "No roses?"

Shimmerain says, "No voids."

Shimmerain says, "Sure Kurapira."

Shimmerain narrows his eyes.

You say, "Sitting requires moving my ass to the ground."

Speaking to Shimmerain, you say, "Please tell me you are more intelligent than this."

Paole chuckles.

Shimmerain slowly empties his lungs.

You examine your fingernails.

Shimmerain gazes with dread at his surroundings.

Shimmerain ponders.

You shift your eyes to Shimmerain.

You ask, "Vortices?"

Shimmerain ponders.

Shimmerain shakes his head.

You say, "Be about it, boy."

You say, "I don't have all day."

Shimmerain stands up.

Paole whistles tunelessly to himself.

Shimmerain laughs at Paole!

Shimmerain chuckles to himself.

You stare at nothing in particular.

Shimmerain examines his fingernails.

Shimmerain says, "I find it so hard to listen to anything you say."

Shimmerain says, "It's going to be difficult letting you teach me anything."

Shimmerain gnaws lightly on his lower lip, as if lost in thought. The razor-sharp tip of one of his fangs breaks the skin and causes a tiny bead of blood to appear. Almost absent-mindedly, he catches it with the tip of his tongue.

Tanthallas scoffs.

Speaking darkly in Dark Elven, Tanthallas says, "Spoken like a true dhe nar."

Shimmerain nods to Tanthallas.

You say, "Like wise. You seem to dribble when you're suppost to actually speak."

Shimmerain says, "If that's what you think I am."
l tant
You see Tanthallas the Cabalist.
He appears to be a Faendryl Dark Elf.
He appears to be very young and very tall. He has piercing jade green eyes and bronze skin. He has waist length, flowing white hair worn in a ponytail. He has a delicate face, a thin nose and tall upswept pointed ears.
He has minor cuts and bruises on his abdominal area.
He has old battle scars on his right leg, and old battle scars on his right arm.
He is holding a platinum-shod orase runestaff in his right hand.
He is wearing a fringed coral red harness, a bone-inlaid bronze earring, a silvery green leather cap, some dark silver-buttoned breeches, a pair of glazed leather boots, a bone-clasped forest green backpack, a waxed black leather pouch, a crystal amulet, a little round mirror, an amber sheath, a velvet-banded white wolf hide cloak, a braid-trimmed white leather satchel, a large sack, and some enruned inky black leathers.
dark
You are now speaking Dark Elven.

Tanthallas grins.

Speaking in Dark Elven, you say, "I've never learned to care."

You snicker at Shimmerain.

Shimmerain says, "I could settle you're tongues so quickly."

Shimmerain says, "Its hard not to silence you both."

You glance at Shimmerain and yawn.

Shimmerain says, "Soon as you bring up race. . you sound more Dhe'nar than the sickness inside me."

Shimmerain narrows his eyes.

Shimmerain waves his hand in a dismissive gesture.

You chuckle.

Speaking in Dark Elven, you say, "Ignorance is your bliss, boy."

You wave a hand at Shimmerain, dismissing him indifferently.

Shimmerain slowly empties his lungs.

Speaking in Dark Elven to Shimmerain, you say, "You have ten seconds to tell me what you need help with."

Shimmerain says, "Well . firstly."

Shimmerain says, "I'll need help with the fine."

Speaking in Dark Elven, you say, "Five seconds."

Shimmerain nods to you.

Shimmerain traces a sign that contorts in the air while he forcefully incants a dark invocation...

Shimmerain gestures at you.
CS: +394 - TD: +194 + CvA: +14 + d100: +84 - -5 == +303
Warding failed!
You feel a surge of intense energy suddenly tear violently at your body! You feel drained!
... and hits for 58 points of damage!
... 105 points of damage!
Back burnt to the bone. Smoke curls up from what's left of you.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The air calms down around you.
Inky black streams of essence cloud your field of vision for a few seconds before traveling down your body and dissipating into the ground. Your vision brightens slightly.
A dark shadow seems to detach itself from your body, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The light blue glow leaves you.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
You feel less confident than before.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves you.
The powerful look leaves you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.

It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

You realize that you have no outstanding favors which Lorminstra owes you, and without having accomplished a deed for Her, your soul is in danger of vanishing from the land forever!

...departing in 10 mins...

A small halfling child cries out, "Murder!". His mother then sends him off for the Halfling deputy.

You sustain massive amounts of system shock!

A squeaky voice from the crowd echoes, "Murder! Murder! Someone call for the Halfling deputy!"


* Kurapira just bit the dust!
laugh
You laugh, the sepulchral sound echoing through the room.
depart confirm

The world before you dissolves into a grainy montage of color...

** I edited out the background crap.

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by Divinity]

[SayGoodbye]

Originally posted by Divinity
Shimmerain says, "Well . firstly."

Shimmerain says, "I'll need help with the fine."


Hahaha That was great. :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by SayGoodbye]

[Anebriated]

I dont see the incident in which the title refers to but I see shimm playing his normal role. Who wasnt trying to be dhe'nar?

^and that was funny.

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by Elrodin]

[Divinity]

Shimmerain has his culture set to Dhe'nar but likes to say that he's not. Then he went on to talk crap about Dhe'nar. It was funny to me. :)

[Anebriated]

didnt realize shimm was a dhe'not

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by SayGoodbye

Originally posted by Divinity
Shimmerain says, "Well . firstly."

Shimmerain says, "I'll need help with the fine."


Hahaha That was great. :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by SayGoodbye]

Yeah that was classic. I read that and was like Ohh Ohh I know what's comming next! heh well done.

[Asha]

Shimmerain walked the Dhe'nar path along with his sister.
Long story short, she was beaten and nearly killed, forcing her to flee.
He went with her, and could no longer hold up the facade of pretending to be Dhe'nar.
Its a fun story but technicaly , I shouldn't still have Dhe'nar as his culture anymore, since he's left his caste.
Stupid mechanics.

[Xandalf]

Well for starters, nearly all "Dhe'nar" in GS are, as Elrodin put it, Dhe'not.... Or as Xandalf likes to call them, Halflings in Dhe'nar skin. Very few actually have an understanding of what being Dhe'nar means.

That being said, Shimm the last time I RP'd with ya, you were Faendryl. What happened?

[Anebriated]

Well for starters, nearly all "Dhe'nar" in GS are, as Elrodin put it, Dhe'not

I hated when they introduced culture titles. It was easy to RP a dhe'nar before the titles were in place but then everyone just slapped a title on , played an asshole and called themself a dhe'nar.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Elrodin

Well for starters, nearly all "Dhe'nar" in GS are, as Elrodin put it, Dhe'not

I hated when they introduced culture titles. It was easy to RP a dhe'nar before the titles were in place but then everyone just slapped a title on , played an asshole and called themself a dhe'nar.

I agree 100%. There are a ton of morons out there who appear to be Dhe'nar, but then you see them laughing and hugging and kissing and interacting and everything else that is just increadible against the culture. If you want to RP a Dhe'nar, then learn how and do it 100%. Even some reasonably good Dhe'nar that I've met go "in and out" of the RP as they like it.

It is a challenge to stay with it at all times, and I have met very few who are able to do it. It is well worth the price, I must say.

[Fallen]

Fun log, and yes, Cultural Titles were a mistake for the Dhe'nar.

[Asha]

Dude, I was Faendryl for as long as my char could take being cookie cutting sorc.
In the end I though I'd take my roleplaying skills and become a fallen Dhe'nar.
It's working out really well except for the cultural title.
I was gonna leave GS becouse of how boring being Faendryl was.

I really do think in game I've got the cast out Dhe'nar thing going great and hope you can enjoy it too. It's just a shame I didn't decide to retire Shimm and start a new character.

Xandalf, you're gonna dig ripping Shimm to bits just like you used to.
Oleani still guides him and he'll still react to everything you said the way he did, about her.
But if you talk Dark elven or Dhe'nar'si to him, he's not going to be your best pal.
Don't be mad man, that's the reason he never ''came out'' on these boards.

[Shalla]

I have the same roleplay. Not necessarily a cast out, but someone who was born outside of sharath and influence of the obsidian tower. Her own native culture is alien to her.

[Asha]

The thing is how can a native culture = Dhe'nar , be something alien to her, since you have to walk a long and 1000 step long path to become it?

Cultural settings need to be wasted.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by SayGoodbye

Originally posted by Divinity
Shimmerain says, "Well . firstly."

Shimmerain says, "I'll need help with the fine."


Hahaha That was great. :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by SayGoodbye]

My favorite portion as well. Good job again Shim!

Finis

[Asha]

Honestly, if you had the powers he does, You'd deal with it the same in RL if a gas station clerk got your prices wrong.

Or some kid opens a window. :lol:

[Vesi]

Well, even though it might say Dhe'nar, other characters shouldn't acknowledge seeing it. That's your player seeing that culture; not your character. To my character, you'd just look like another dark elf.

Vesi

[Asha]

Right on man.
Considering he's pale as a sharks underside, they shouldn't have a clue.

If they're Dhe'nar themselves then yeah, I'd see how they'd see it.

[Artha]

I don't know, I can tell (with reasonable certainty) if someone born and raised in Europe is talking to me by their accent and possibly cut of their clothes and all that jazz. Possibly not the country, but if my choices are Britain, France, or Germany, I can probably nail which one they're from most of the time.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by FinisWolf

Originally posted by SayGoodbye

Originally posted by Divinity
Shimmerain says, "Well . firstly."

Shimmerain says, "I'll need help with the fine."


Hahaha That was great. :lol:

[Edited on 7-26-2005 by SayGoodbye]

My favorite portion as well.
Finis

Thirded.

I read Starsnuffer's site on the dhe'nar culture when my empath was "invited" to OT, but honestly, I got through the site and knew it wasn't the kind of role for me to play (too much politics/ego).

-M

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Artha
I don't know, I can tell (with reasonable certainty) if someone born and raised in Europe is talking to me by their accent and possibly cut of their clothes and all that jazz. Possibly not the country, but if my choices are Britain, France, or Germany, I can probably nail which one they're from most of the time.

Well, if they are using the Dhe'nar language and are a dark elf, I would put two and two together. But if they were just speaking common, then my character would probably be clueless.

Vesi

[Shalla]

How does one roleplay a dhe'nar really? Unless they were introduced to the obsidian tower, are they not allowed to have their individuality? If that is the case, they are no different from the cookie cutter faendryl sorcerer. Given there are different training provided by the castes. But like history, the way can be interpreted differently by different individuals. They can lose their way in a sense, choose to not follow the way, or be alien to it. They are still Dhe'nar in blood, and there are different ways when it comes to ascension to power.

Some dhe'nars these days think that just because they are part of the obisidian tower, means they are full fledge dhe'nars because they act evvaaaallll. I don't know what Starsnuffer or anybody else in charge in the obsidian tower has been teaching lately.. but I think they have been getting too much people like.. "OMG I am uber bad guy and I must act all eeeevvvviiill into their fold." I believe they used to frown on that.

There is more to dhe'nar than being all high and mighty. There is a difference between imposing your arrogance on everybody else, OR give off the feel or aura around you oozing of significance, power and culture by the way you act. Like in real life. There is a difference between a trailer trash who won a million dollars and have poor upbringing, and someone who is born rich but can tell from their actions and demeanor they have top class breeding without being over-bearing. I have met both, unfortunately.. the first example is too often, and lacking of class.

My character's website is not yet ready for viewing, but I have finished my character's journey through life to which I would be uploading soon. Her character background, history, attitude and ideology. Including short stories to back it up. At this point in time of her GS life, she is new to her people's culture, and is alien to it. But it doesn't mean. I, the player is.

I've been too busy to interact with Xandalf in game, but I'm hoping I could incorporate him into one of my short stories and hopefully be instrumental for her to learn more of her culture. I'm not sure if it is Evarin's roleplay, but I'm sorry to say this but his character is waaay out there. If it is, then his character will most likely not be respected by my character, if not completely ignore him.

There is a difference with demanding respect, and worthy of respect. You cannot always rely on I am dhe'nar. I am your better. You need to back it up, with wit. If not power.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Shalla
They are still Dhe'nar in blood, and there are different ways when it comes to ascension to power.I think it's kinda like Judaism, in that you could be the great-great-great-grand-niece of Issachar but if you don't know the Torah from El Toro, you're not Jewish. To put it another way; bloodline is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being Dhe'nar.

[ElanthianSiren]

Bloodline isn't even necessary anymore really. If you read Snuffer's site, you have the legions and dark dwarves, who are considered part of the Dhe'nari culture -- (that was my sense of it anyway).

Just thought I'd point that out as my empath was asked to join as part of the legions (she's sylvan).

-M

[Shalla]

Unfortunately, most dhe'nars these days really don't know torah from el toro. Even if they have read the histories and culture of the dhe'nar, they still lack the capacity to convey it. They just rely on I am dhe'nar, so therefore I am your better. Fine, if that is your roleplay, then you better make sure you will not be out-witted, rely or be pwned by a halfling.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Drayal
The thing is how can a native culture = Dhe'nar , be something alien to her, since you have to walk a long and 1000 step long path to become it?

Cultural settings need to be wasted.

Her parents and blood line is dhe'nari, but she wasn't born in sharath and raised by the dhe'nar. She was raised by humans.

since you have to walk a long and 1000 step long path to become it?

I don't understand this. I understand the philosophy of embracing the dhe'nari culture, but you said "become it" . Are you saying bloodline does not play a role?

[Fallen]

As has been said many times, one isn't born a Dhe'nar. Its like saying you were born a republican.

I suppose I should respond to Shalla's comments directly.

<<I'm not sure if it is Evarin's roleplay, but I'm sorry to say this but his character is waaay out there. If it is, then his character will most likely not be respected by my character, if not completely ignore him. >>

This is correct. Evarin does not exhibit patience for many who he finds as pakra'a. As was said, one isn't born a Dhe'nar. You can have two Dhe'nari parents, but unless you were brought up within the culture, learning The Way from a young age, you are just a Dark Elf.

Evarin not showing respect or tolerance for Shalla was likely due to his recognition of her upbringing. In other words, he met a dark elf that acted more like a human than anything resembling a Dhe'nar. If Evarin were to treat her with respect, and kindness, what would that be saying about my culture?

I am in no way saying that because you do not roleplay a Sharath or Eh'lah born Dhe'nar, you are not roleplaying. I am not saying you are in any way less of a roleplayer because you choose to roleplay a Dark elf who is not aware of her parent's culture. I am not making any negative comments at all towards you.

I am attempting to explain why Evarin was "Way out there" when interacting with your character.

Take my comments for what you will.



[Edited on 7-27-2005 by Fallen]

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Shalla
Some dhe'nars these days think that just because they are part of the obisidian tower, means they are full fledge dhe'nars because they act evvaaaallll. I don't know what Starsnuffer or anybody else in charge in the obsidian tower has been teaching lately.. but I think they have been getting too much people like.. "OMG I am uber bad guy and I must act all eeeevvvviiill into their fold."

Interesting. Out of curiosity..... what has led you to think this?

[Fallen]

...Welcome to the PC boards, Avaia.

[Sylph]

My dark elf is a Dark Elf.... No Faendryl or Dhe'nar.

[Fallen]

Do you roleplay her as having dark elven parents that left the Southron Wastes, Sylph..perhaps multiple generations ago? I am interested to hear how you have dealt with the issue of lineage.

[Sylph]

Fallen... I basically stay invisible most of the time and try to interact as little as possible with people.

Total Recluse.


edit: No one has ever brought up her Lineage.

[Edited on 7-28-2005 by Sylph]

[Fallen]

A depressing answer. Where is it this dark elf stays again? Perhaps Evarin will take up a habit of randomly casting 109 when wandering about town...

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Fallen
...Welcome to the PC boards, Avaia.

Thank you. Looks like my stay will be short-lived, as Shalla doesn't seem inclined to answer my question.

Because it is true? I'm not going to merit the basis of the Dhe'nar.. great idea, but a ton of logic holes that make me want to scream, but the fact that there are a ton of Dhe'nar (I've seen them in game) that are like.. I R FUCKING EVL FEER ME KILL U NOOB!!!11 Open your eyes.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

And once again... Evarin... not every Dhe'nari is a member of the caste system. Some have wandered as well.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Avaia
Interesting. Out of curiosity..... what has led you to think this?

If you play Gemstone, and fail to see the reality that there are people like that in game. Then you are obviously too caught up in your imagination. I wouldn't say that if I haven't seen it myself. I wouldn't say that if people haven't witnessed these people themselves. There wouldn't be a dhe'nar parody website. Starsnuffer wouldn't bring it up in the application process to be a member that you cannot be like this.. but being since I've seen it myself.. some obviously slipped through the cracks.



Originally posted by Avaia
Looks like my stay will be short-lived, as Shalla doesn't seem inclined to answer my question.

I just thought you're not observant enough. I simply didn't feel like stating the obvious. In case you missed it. I didn't generalize everybody who are playing dhe'nar. There are after all notable dhe'nar roleplayers who exemplify the idealic dhe'nar, from starsnuffer's or celtic's point of view that is.

The forum is filled with interesting people who have alot to contribute. Please don't generalize everybody here just because I didn't feel like replying to your post.

[Edited on 7-28-2005 by Shalla]

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Fallen
As has been said many times, one isn't born a Dhe'nar. Its like saying you were born a republican.

So are you saying, being Dhe'nar is an ideal, if that is so.. then anybody can be dhe'nar. halfling or otherwise. Bloodline plays a role.




This is correct. Evarin does not exhibit patience for many who he finds as pakra'a. As was said, one isn't born a Dhe'nar. You can have two Dhe'nari parents, but unless you were brought up within the culture, learning The Way from a young age, you are just a Dark Elf. Hey, that's what she is. I'm not suggesting otherwise. But to suggest you have to be born and brought up dhe'nari.. like Arkans said.. there are too many contradictions.. I for example have been playing a dark elf way before the obsidian council was out there. I cannot all of a sudden forget and change my roleplay in the past, just because this particular culture is born. I would have to re-roll, and even then.. people still consider us all started from humble beginnings at the turnip farm.



Evarin not showing respect or tolerance for Shalla was likely due to his recognition of her upbringing. In other words, he met a dark elf that acted more like a human than anything resembling a Dhe'nar. If Evarin were to treat her with respect, and kindness, what would that be saying about my culture?

It doesn't say anything about your culture.. If anything, it would say something about your character's perception in general, and interpretation Noi'sho'rah's prophecy. Shalla was born of Dhe'nari line, and her blood is dhe'nar. She is young, She is alien to her culture, and I like that to remain so until I have met a suitable dhe'nar who would show her the way. The old Sharath was decimated, but some people who are loyal to Noi'sho'rah's teaching survived.. but they are scattered. Like I said, I am not ready to open my website yet regarding shalla's history.. but that doesn't mean her character is now interested in knowing her background.. and whether she would accept it or not after learning everything.. is undecided. I had a conversation with Gahread about this at one point, and he was willing to roleplay with her.. but I had to leave the game. Maybe I'm wrong.. but Xandalf roleplay the same way you do. he does consider me a pak'ra but that is because she is unfamiliar with her culture.. Unlike you though, Xandalf see's shalla as one of the first born. A dhe'nar who he is willing to shape into an ideal dhe'nar would be.



I am not making any negative comments at all towards you.

I didn't think you were.

However, nobody not even the obsidian tower, can tell me Shalla in game isn't dhe'nar because she wasn't raised by one. She is in more ways than one a dhe'nar. And if Being dhe'nar is an ideal like you say.. Then it can be learned.. and it can be accepted, and incorporated into one's roleplay.

Like you said.. you cannot be born a republican. you know what? You can learn to be one.




[Edited on 7-28-2005 by Shalla]

[Fallen]

And once again... Evarin... not every Dhe'nari is a member of the caste system. Some have wandered as well. >>

What is it, in your mind, that makes a Dhe'nar a Dhe'nar? I can tell you, as others have stated, that while lineage is important, it is not the determining factor.

1. Being haughty is not a requirement to being a Dhe'nar.
2. Treating everyone poorly is not a requirement to being a Dhe'nar.
3. Speaking Dhe'nar-si is not a requirement to being a Dhe'nar.
4. Being a member of the Obsidian Tower is not a requirement to being a Dhe'nar.

What, in my mind, are requirements?

1. You are the DIRECT (no half-dhe'nar) decendant of Dark elves which were (or were directly descended from) those who lived in Sharath, Eh'lah, or some other Dhe'nari community.

2. That you were taught the customs and beliefs of the First Born, not necessarily from birth, though through the traditions of the culture.

3. That you uphold, and follow these (Officially documented) traditions and beliefs, known collectively as The Way.

----
Yes, warriorbird, I understand, and respect people are quite capable of rolling up characters with differing views and opinions from that of the established Dhe'nari community. What I wish for you to understand, is that there is a fine line those characters must walk, if they wish to continue to be recognized as a Dhe'nar.

Not by some haughty group of Uber characters in a Tower, not by a bunch of jerks who think they are better than anyone else, but by all of those who claim to roleplay according to the official documentation that Simutronics provides. If someone wishes to go against that documentation, and still claim their character as Dhe'nar, so be it. Though I will ask that you allow the characters that do play within the official documentation our right as "characters" to snub their "character".

[Fallen]

So are you saying, being Dhe'nar is an ideal, if that is so.. then anybody can be dhe'nar. halfling or otherwise. Bloodline plays a role. >>

This, in part, is correct. Any and all races are free to adopt the beliefs of the Dhe'nar as their own. There are a great many characters that have done just this. A group of these characters are known as the Obsidian Legion, though there are likely many outside the Obsidian Tower who have done this as well.

Bloodlines DO play a crucial role, Shalla. You cannot be a Dhe'nar without having two parents who are direct descendants of the culture. HOWEVER, you are not a Dhe'nar UNTIL you receive and accept the teachings of the culture as your own. Shalla can become a Dhe'nar, if and when she chooses to follow the First Brother's teachings.


<<I had a conversation with Gahread about this at one point, and he was willing to roleplay with her.. but I had to leave the game. Maybe I'm wrong.. but Xandalf roleplay the same way you do. he does consider me a pak'ra but that is because she is unfamiliar with her culture.. Unlike you though, Xandalf see's shalla as one of the first born. A dhe'nar who he is willing to shape into an ideal dhe'nar would be.>>

I have always openly admitted that Gahread was the reason I decided to follow the Dhe'nari culture. His character inspired me to play one. He would also tell you that until you accept the teachings of his people, you are not yet a Dhe'nar. You have the potential to be one, but it is not handed to you at birth.

The son of Starsnuffer would be as much a Pakra'a as Chica until the time when he chooses to follow The Way.

<<However, nobody not even the obsidian tower, can tell me Shalla in game isn't dhe'nar because she wasn't raised by one. She is in more ways than one a dhe'nar. And if Being dhe'nar is an ideal like you say.. Then it can be learned.. and it can be accepted, and incorporated into one's roleplay. >>

You are correct, Shalla. The Obsidian Tower is not telling you that. No one is saying Shalla cannot become a Dhe'nar. What those Dhe'nar of the Tower, and all other Dhe'nar who play by the current documentation would tell you, is you are not one YET.


Like you said.. you cannot be born a republican. you know what? You can learn to be one. >>

Nothing would please me more to see The Family welcome another into the fold.


Evarin and his Mis'ri

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Fallen
What, in my mind, are requirements?

1. You are the DIRECT (no half-dhe'nar) decendant of Dark elves which were (or were directly descended from) those who lived in Sharath, Eh'lah, or some other Dhe'nari community.

Check, explanation soon will be in document. I have a life, I type in the story in my spare time you know?



2. That you were taught the customs and beliefs of the First Born, not necessarily from birth, though through the traditions of the culture.

Check. Once again explanation will be for your viewing pleasure soon. Let me just say.. that The character Shalla.. used to be a level 30ish bard who I retired, to be rolled as a sorcerer that she is now. In game character explanation? she supposedly died.. arkati intervention blah blah. Like I said, she became dark elf way before the dhe'nar culture was introduced.



3. That you uphold, and follow these (Officially documented) traditions and beliefs, known collectively as The Way.

Check.

She did, amnesiac, due to being reborn. Young, inexperienced.. but very powerful. Acts like a human, but not human enough to be accepted by humans. Having said that, her eyes are towards her people for guidance. Obviously Evarin will not be very accomodating in that aspect. ( naturally ) but he is after all not the only dhe'nar. I'm sure she will be meeting many dhe'nars in her life.. and I assure you.. The roleplay in game?.. will shape her future. In the end. She is still dhe'nar.

]

[Edited on 7-28-2005 by Shalla]

[Fallen]

Obviously Evarin will not be very accomodating in that aspect. ( naturally ) but he is after all not the only dhe'nar. I'm sure she will be meeting many dhe'nars in her life.. and I assure you.. The roleplay in game?.. will shape her future. In the end. She is still dhe'nar. >>

I am sorry if my character has detracted from your sense of enjoyment of the culture. It was not my goal, nor my intention to discourage your character to returning to The Way.

If I may suggest those that you might seek out, I would recommend Starshadow, or Lochraven. Both of these characters are infinitely more patient than Evarin, and FAR greater roleplayers than I.

[Xandalf]

As far as Xandalf is concerned, if you're a Dark Elf with no culture set, you are Faendryl to him. If you have Dhe'nar set as your culture than he see's you as Dhe'nar. He would recognize his own people so if you're NOT Dhe'nar, you must be Faendryl.

That said, He certaintly does not accept all Dhe'nar as his brothers. There are many, as he calls them, 'halflings in Dhe'nar skin' which are certaintly NOT Dhe'nar in his eyes.

That's fine, you can choose to RP your character anyway you want. Nobody is going to tell you how. But if you want to be accepted as a true Dhe'nar, you must follow the Way per the official documentation. (Like Evarin said) Xandalf will more or less ignore you and treat you like a common elf. He has taken on several Q'halae and enjoys teaching them about the Way (as well as the subsurvience he recieves from them). He is always willing to teach willing and able Dhe'nar about the Way.

I'm not really sure how this debate started, but Xandalf and Evarin will soon be full fledged members of the Tower. I know most of the current Tower leadership/members are not currently very active if active at all. Xandalf and Evarin are both VERY active, and both his player and myself are very passionate about breathing life back into the Tower. Per that end, we are and will be activly seeking Dhe'nar who wish to follow the Way.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Fallen
I am sorry if my character has detracted from your sense of enjoyment of the culture. It was not my goal, nor my intention to discourage your character to returning to The Way.


Don't apologize. I actually incorporated you into the story line as one of those dhe'nars that the elanith populace's especially what halflings fear.. But that itself makes it interesting, because she would meet many other dhe'nars who aren't like that would teach her of the way.. So in a way, it works out. :smilegrin:

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Shalla

Don't apologize. I actually incorporated you into the story line as one of those dhe'nars that the elanith populace's especially what halflings fear.. But that itself makes it interesting, because she would meet many other dhe'nars who aren't like that would teach her of the way.. So in a way, it works out. :smilegrin:

Him?? You've never looked at Xand's equipment, have you?

[Fallen]

Don't apologize. I actually incorporated you into the story line as one of those dhe'nars that the elanith populace's especially what halflings fear.. But that itself makes it interesting, because she would meet many other dhe'nars who aren't like that would teach her of the way.. So in a way, it works out. >>

I would also recommend you look out for Eoghain, and especially Rheisia. Both have no ties to the Obsidian Tower (at the moment), so I am not just firing off names of those in my soon-to-be house.

Both are very much different from Evarin, and the character Rheisia is definitely one whom I think Shalla would enjoy.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Xandalf
Him?? You've never looked at Xand's equipment, have you?

No, not really no. Although, her character would understand that Eventually she will be taught that the Dhe'nars goal for perfection.. and have no room for sillyness. That's why they don't associate with halflings who are naturally cheerful.

That itself would be the obstacle in the future for her. She was raised human.. but not accepted as human. She nows long to know her people, but it means having to choose between the life she was raised.. and the perfection she was mean't to achieve.

Perfection.. or Distancing herself from the people she loves. Dilemma dilemma. It's all mine. I do so love drama.

[Xandalf]

Originally posted by Fallen


I would also recommend you look out for Eoghain,


Ah.. My old Q'hali!!

He's still pissed Xand dropped him to join the tower. :lol:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Shalla
I for example have been playing a dark elf way before the obsidian council was out there. I cannot all of a sudden forget and change my roleplay in the past, just because this particular culture is born. I would have to re-rollYes, you would. What would the point be of role-playing if no roles had defined pasts?
and even then.. people still consider us all started from humble beginnings at the turnip farm. :?: A thinly veiled ooc-ism has nothing to do with a character's backstory.

That you uphold, and follow these (Officially documented) traditions and beliefs, known collectively as The Way.Check.Uncheck.
Acts like a humanDhe'nar do not act "like a human". Dhe'nar act like Dhe'nar. As an aside, I'm curious to know what you think acting "like a human" consists of. Humanity doesn't really have an overarching culture.

[Avaia]

If you play Gemstone, and fail to see the reality that there are people like that in game.

I am aware of my own observations. What I am not aware of, specifically, are yours. You made a comment directly about the Obsidian Tower, I found it curious, so I asked a question. Thank you for the reply.

Now these statements.....


my soon-to-be


but Xandalf and Evarin will soon

.. made me smile.

[Fallen]

.. made me smile. >>

You would rather you sit up in that stuffy old eyesore all by your lonesome, sho'rah?

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Yes, you would. What would the point be of role-playing if no roles had defined pasts?

Uhm, she has a past. Good thing I didn't really roleplay being a faendryl either. When dhe'nar was first brought up prior to making it official.. I thought it was interesting. But Whyssper is human, and she adopted shalla from way back. So I had to make up a story that would include her but won't necessarily jeopardize or contradict my roleplaying a dhe'nar.


:?: A thinly veiled ooc-ism has nothing to do with a character's backstory. Thinly veiled ooc-ism, yes. but tell that to the guy in thrak inn. OOC or in-character. Its more of a grey area. I'm sure he told alot of dhe'nars they came from the turnip farm. :bleh:



Uncheck.

Shalla's life history would suggest otherwise. Until it's ready. let it be unchecked.


Dhe'nar do not act "like a human". Dhe'nar act like Dhe'nar.

She's a dhe'nar. She is not cultured, so she is just a dark elf.. Her flowing hair does not have braids. I believe, if I remember correctly. The number of braids signify status. I chose to have her hair flowing and free to show her unbridled upbringing.



As an aside, I'm curious to know what you think acting "like a human" consists of. Humanity doesn't really have an overarching culture. I don't even know how that acting human started. I mentioned to people in game how she is dhe'nar but she was raised in wehnimer's landing, they automatically assumed she acts human. People seem to understand her predicament better, when I say she acts like a human. I could say, she acts normal.. but what is normal? For her to act normal is to act the ideal dhe'nar. For me to say she acts like a dark elf, that itself is confusing.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Shalla]

[Xandalf]

Dhe'nar do not act "like a human". Dhe'nar act like Dhe'nar.

If you're RP'ng a Dhe'nar, you should not be "acting" Dhe'nar.

Back when I was learning the RP, I told the guy teaching me that I "was getting good at acting Dhe'nar"

He responded by saying "You won't ever understand until you stop ACTING Dhe'nar and starting BEING Dhe'nar.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Shalla
I cannot all of a sudden forget and change my roleplay in the past, just because this particular culture is born.


I know the feeling, my character was a certified krolvin hater before the half-krolvin culture was introduced and since then he's killed a lot of HKs because it would basically be a betrayal of the character not to do so. It's annoying because I usually don't enjoy the interactions, and there is always the chance of warnings/bannings, but I'm kinda locked in by his history.






Ok, another thing, to be honest, I have no idea what the state of the dark elf culture is. I had a fairly old sorcerer when I left Gemstone a long time ago but I got really disgusted with the whole D-elf sorcerer thing and so I never reactivated the sorc.

Now I really have no idea what is what, nor any real desire to read the delf docs because they are so freakin long and poorly organized . My main character is an Imperial human and he doesn't really care much for elves and so I don't need to know too much about them anyhow. I usually use the term Faendryl and Dhe'nar interchangeably, mostly because he enjoys annoying elves.


Can anyone give me a primer on dark elves? I assume Faendryl just means that you are descended somehow from Ta'Faendryl. Dhe'nar, I don't know much about. I think they eat halflings, or at least that was what the RP was at the time I left: "We are BIG BAD DELF SORCERERS, let's eat a halfling!"


Anyone, if anyone could help me out with the current state of dark elves that would help. I can't really use the info in-game at the moment but if there is something that piques my interest I might read up for more info and reactivate my old sorc. Who knows.

In my opinion, when all is said and done, people need to mellow the fuck out. Being Dhe'nar? What the fuck is that? Do people need to start eating midgets (halflings) in real life and enslaving Elves? Give me a break. You can't hold people to some homogenous standard when role-playing a culture. Different people will have different backrounds while using culture as just a rough outline.

- Arkans

[Miss X]

:yeahthat:

I hate it when people turn their noses up at others who do not roleplay their character in the stereotypical way. Gemstone is a fantasy game after all!

[Vestarr]

Originally posted by Arkans
In my opinion, when all is said and done, people need to mellow the fuck out. Being Dhe'nar? What the fuck is that? Do people need to start eating midgets (halflings) in real life and enslaving Elves? Give me a break. You can't hold people to some homogenous standard when role-playing a culture. Different people will have different backrounds while using culture as just a rough outline.

- Arkans
I agree Vestarr is Giantkin of the T'Kirem clan who " acts civalized " from his upbringing in Icemule .Reason he knows he is T'Kirem is he carries a scar from a claw on his back an has the armband. 2 things whcih he doesnt recall from his past as it was forgotten due to a cave-in during his youth ,he searches for answers of his past but is just as content to live his life as he is


damn took me 2 years for 100 posts, im slow

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Vestarr]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Shalla
Uhm, she has a past.That's my point, a character has a past that can't be ignored just because a cool new culture, profession, or race comes along. I use "can't" in the sense that doing so would bespeak a complete lack of role-playing desire, obviously people can do anything they want with their characters.
but tell that to the guy in thrak inn.The Raging Thrak has always been an OOC means to an IC end.
She's a dhe'nar. ... she is just a dark elfDo you see how this is a complete contradiction? She could one day become a Dhe'nar, but she can't be one now AND just be a dark elf.
Originally posted by Miss X
I hate it when people turn their noses up at others who do not roleplay their character in the stereotypical way.There's a difference between "the stereotypical way" and defining characteristics of a culture. A person born into Judaism that worships Tet is not a Jew, no matter what reasoning they can come up with. A character born from Dhe'nar parents that admittedly is "not cultured" is not Dhe'nar.

[Warriorbird]

"What, in my mind, are requirements?

1. You are the DIRECT (no half-dhe'nar) decendant of Dark elves which were (or were directly descended from) those who lived in Sharath, Eh'lah, or some other Dhe'nari community.

2. That you were taught the customs and beliefs of the First Born, not necessarily from birth, though through the traditions of the culture.

3. That you uphold, and follow these (Officially documented) traditions and beliefs, known collectively as The Way.

----
Yes, warriorbird, I understand, and respect people are quite capable of rolling up characters with differing views and opinions from that of the established Dhe'nari community. What I wish for you to understand, is that there is a fine line those characters must walk, if they wish to continue to be recognized as a Dhe'nar.

Not by some haughty group of Uber characters in a Tower, not by a bunch of jerks who think they are better than anyone else, but by all of those who claim to roleplay according to the official documentation that Simutronics provides. If someone wishes to go against that documentation, and still claim their character as Dhe'nar, so be it. Though I will ask that you allow the characters that do play within the official documentation our right as "characters" to snub their "character". "

.................................................. ................

Relatively little of the "documentation" is actually accepted by Simu...most especially the silly poison sperm bits and stuff in that vein.

"What I wish for you to understand, is that there is a fine line those characters must walk, if they wish to continue to be recognized as a Dhe'nar."

Thing is, they outnumber you. Who's to say? Plat's Dhe'nar also follow some diametrically different notions, for an example.

"but by all of those who claim to roleplay according to the official documentation that Simutronics provides."

Once again, that's pretty slim regarding the Dhe'nar. What you're asking is for them to follow the unofficial documentation too.

"You are the DIRECT (no half-dhe'nar) decendant of Dark elves which were (or were directly descended from) those who lived in Sharath, Eh'lah, or some other Dhe'nari community."

You're asking them to follow the silly poison sperm thing, flat out...isn't official. The other bit seems completely reasonable.

"2. That you were taught the customs and beliefs of the First Born, not necessarily from birth, though through the traditions of the culture."

How're they gonna know? They have every right to form their own interpretation of what's written. With that said, if they are peasantry, they may have a diametrically different viewpoint than the "upper class 3%" that most of the haughty folks want to play.

"3. That you uphold, and follow these (Officially documented) traditions and beliefs, known collectively as The Way."

Who says that's a requirement? I think the best roleplayed Dhe'nar don't follow it exclusively. It'll lead to incredibly boring characters. I also tend to doubt that non caste Dhe'nar are as devoted to it as caste ones.

You certainly have a right to snub them, though.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Warriorbird]

[CrystalTears]

Am I reading this wrong, or are the Tower Dhe'nars being snubbed as well? Even though that was the original Dhe'nar who created that culture in the first place?

Wouldn't they have more of a right to say what is Dhe'nar or not since they created it? Simu took that idea and made it their own, and it angered several people that just anyone was going to proclaim themselves a Dhe'nar, rather than going through the "right of passage", so to speak.

I actually prefer deviations for the classic type culture and have intricacies and details of their own. It makes them more interesting. All people of any certain culture don't all act or live the same, I wouldn't assume the same of a game culture either.

[Warriorbird]

I think the implication was most of the original folks had left. I think the Tower is universally pretty well done... though there are always idiots.

I think part of the reason the Tower is getting snubbed is due to the fact that they want to be so "high society" as far as roleplaying is concerned. They need to understand that they will HAVE give ground to the new player that becomes Dhe'nar.

- Arkans

[Doughboy]

If this aint a well RP'd Dhe'nar, I dunno what is....



Sazlo gestures.
A brilliant luminescence surrounds Sazlo and his group.
>

Sazlo recites:

"Enjoy"


>
Sazlo waves.
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo just licked Lisbethe!
>
Sazlo cackles!
>
>l saz
>
You see Sazlo.
He appears to be a Dhe'nar Dark Elf.
He appears to be very young and average height. He has dark-rimmed stormy grey eyes and dark skin. He has chin length, flowing blue-black hair streaked with silver. He has a delicate face, a sharp nose and dimpled cheeks.
He has a stark necromancer tattoo on his arm.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing a gold ring, a crystal amulet, a glossy black floating sphere, a burnished bronze fox locket, an exquisite sitting dragon charm, some Dhe'nari sorcerer leathers, some Dhe'nari black leather shoes, a firestone airship pin, some silvery vultite cufflinks, a button-up soft white silk shirt, some black ceremonial gloves, some dark black flowing silk pants, and a deeply hooded black Dhe'nari cloak.
>
Sazlo says, "Tastes lick ice cream still."
>
Lisbethe hugs Sazlo, who wraps her in a warm embrace.
>
Sazlo nods to Lisbethe.
>
Lisbethe says, "Do not."
>
Sazlo says, "Do too."
>
Lisbethe chuckles.
>
Sazlo nods.
>
Sazlo says, "Vanilla."
>
Sazlo nods.
>
Sazlo says, "Wif sprinkles."
>
Sazlo grins.
>
Lisbethe says, "If anything Im rockyroad."
>
Sazlo just left.


Edited to remove useless junk.

Just gotta educate, educate, educate. Nothing else is going to prevent this.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Edited to remove useless junk.

Should have taken the rest of it with it. ;)

[DeV]

Wow, that is NOT the Sazlo I remember interacting with in game. I am hoping that someone invaded his account or he lent it out to a friend or something. As Sazlo's in game brother I've never seen him go OOC, especially while not at a table or some other private place like his home.

I also don't think he is apart of the Obsidian Tower as our in game family is very against everything it stands for. I choose my family over the Tower after I was accepted to be a Q'halae. Other reasons influenced that decision as well though including the fact that the Mis'ra and I had a sort of OOC history concerning her dispproval of my characters name that dated back before I'd even known of the Tower's existence. I saved myself the trouble and unwanted attitude by walking away.

Ugh, if that is Sazlo, he's getting reemed.

[Aaysia]

I heard it wasn't really Sazlo from another brother of yours Vold :) .

And the Sazlo *I* remember would not act like that at all.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Aaysia
I heard it wasn't really Sazlo from another brother of yours Vold :) .

And the Sazlo *I* remember would not act like that at all. Whew, good news then, sis. It didn't seem like him at first glance either; thought he'd flipped his lid for a minute. :smilegrin:

Hugs to my fam, :sniffle: I miss them.

[Sylph]

Originally posted by Fallen
A depressing answer. Where is it this dark elf stays again? Perhaps Evarin will take up a habit of randomly casting 109 when wandering about town...


Generally a table in the Shimmarglin or on the Dais if the Inn is full...

[Shalla]

Latrinsorm.

Shalla's parents are dhe'nari. Who she obviously never met,
besides learning from what HER adopted mother speculated and
have told her, and was found in her person when she was a baby, which would make her believe she came from a line of dhe'nari.

Shalla was adopted by a human mother from the landing. because of this, she has not been initiated by the tradional ways of the dhe'nari.

She one days wants to meet and learn more of her people.

She is interested and is trying to learn of her parent's culture.

Whether the obsidian tower or other dhe'nars would look at her as one of her people.. who knows. But I, the player personally thinks.. she doesn't need their approval.. unless she did decide to join them.

She will most definitely try and achieve perfection. Whether she will choose to follow the ways of the dhe'nar.. or follow her own ways.. Will be decided AFTER learning more about her people.



[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Shalla]

[Artha]

I think if they were real Dhe'nar and not the fluffy, shit talking bunnies they have to be because of policy, they'd gack her for being impure.

[Shalla]

I had no problems with that. But not everybody who are member of the obsidian tower can 100% adhere to the documentation. Not to mention it has many flaws in both logic and what anybody can do as a player.

Not to mention there are other dhe'nars out there with different interpretation of the official.

[Edited on 7-29-2005 by Shalla]

Just like every German was a Nazi during WWII.

C'mon, setting a homogenous, completely strict way for EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a given culture to behave and act is is just ridiculous and fake. It doesn't make sense in any sort of context and just cheapens the autheticality of a culture. Bleh.

- Arkans

[Shalla]

Originally posted by Arkans
Just like every German was a Nazi during WWII.

C'mon, setting a homogenous, completely strict way for EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a given culture to behave and act is is just ridiculous and fake. It doesn't make sense in any sort of context and just cheapens the autheticality of a culture. Bleh.

- Arkans

They are the borg. But they won't assimilate her because she's impure.

Apparantly. Jesus, I thought the idea of Dhe'nar was retarded before, it's like 300x worse now.

- Arkans

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Fallen
You would rather you sit up in that stuffy old eyesore all by your lonesome?

Avaias' q'halae'ish, considered by most to be of unusually short duration, lasted approximately two years.

[DCSL]

I'm going to sidestep the majority of the what makes Dhe'nar Dhe'nar question, given that I know my feral elf wouldn't be accepted, heh. But in answer to one of the arguments that people shouldn't be able to recognize Dhe'nar just by looking at them...

Okay, stay with me here.

The elves who would become the Dhe'nar, those who followed Tahlad, left the other fair elves 50,000 years ago. Give or take. The documents state that they were mutated physically by leftover energies from the Ur-Daemon Wars.

The Faendryl were mutated by energies of Maelshyve, and they've only been under its influence something like 15,000 years.

Even though they've apparently developed along similar lines, there have to be differences. Noticable differences. For one thing, the Dhe'nar have been going along that evolutionary path for far longer than the Faendryl. For another thing, their climates and available food sources are vastly different. Thirdly, they've chosen different paths, different cultural lifestyles. Surely all of that has an effect on evolution.

I mean, I can tell an African of Egyptian descent from an African of Nubian descent. I can tell a Puerto Rican from a Cuban, a Korean from Chinese, an American Caucasian from European Caucasian. Oh, sure, it's not 100%, but it's not too hard.

Anyway, in conclusion, I don't think it's completely unreasonable from a strictly scientific point of view, to be able to tell apart the evolutionary divergances in Dhe'nar and Faendryl. Personally, I would have made the Dhe'nar a completely seperate race, but that's just me.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Shalla
Latrinsorm. I'm not saying your RP choices are wrong. I'm saying that calling your character a Dhe'nar when she doesn't follow the ways of the Dhe'nar is incorrect by definition. I'm not saying that the Obsidian Tower's approval is required, nor am I saying my approval is required.
Originally posted by Arkans
C'mon, setting a homogenous, completely strict way for EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a given culture to behave and act is is just ridiculous and fake.Actually, it's like saying all Nazis hate Jews. For your analogy to work, someone would have to say all dark Elves are Dhe'nar (which no one has said). Furthermore, Nazi is a political affiliation. Dhe'nar is much closer to a religion, and an extremely strict one at that. A Dhe'nar acting like a human is like a Catholic saying God hates blacks. Neither embody their supposed philosophies, therefore neither should be described as such.

[Jolena]

Does anyone have a link to the Starsnuffer/Obsidian Tower documentation on Dhe'nar by chance? I'm a bit late into this debate but i've been watching it and have become rather interested.

a few days back someone approached my empath, who is an Aelotoi, and asked to 'interview her'. The person interviewing her is a slave but not sure to whom. Anyhow, while my empath was being interviewed about her past and culture, the woman was writing it all down and a dark elven woman comes in named Vaedalis. She looks with interest at my empath and then nods and leaves after speaking to the interviewer in private. When she left, my empath askd who the woman was and the interviewer called her Mis'ra. I'm curious now as to what that word means etc.

[Rangerpuff]

Jolena's Player,

Here is a link I know of, there should be some sort of Dhe'narsi dictionary there as well. If not let me know and I will see what I can find.

I never thought I'd spend as much time as I have trying to figure out what makes the Dhe'nar tick as I have.

Who'd have thought Merji would fall head over heels for Evarin huh?

Hope that helps,

Merji's Muse


http://www.starsnuffer.com

[Shalla]

Yes or No.

Bloodline does not make you Dhe'nari.

No if's but's, or whatnot. It's either it does or it doesn't.


True or False.

You are not born Dhe'nari. You are initiated and taught to be a Dhe'nari.

With that logic. Being Dhe'nari is something that can be taught, Learned. an Ideal to be accepted.

True or False Only apply if the answer to question #2 is true.

You are born from 2 dhe'nari parents. but not initiated through the old ways. You will one day be a full fledge dhe'nar by accepting the Way.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by DCSL
I'm going to sidestep the majority of the what makes Dhe'nar Dhe'nar question, given that I know my feral elf wouldn't be accepted, heh. But in answer to one of the arguments that people shouldn't be able to recognize Dhe'nar just by looking at them...

Okay, stay with me here.

The elves who would become the Dhe'nar, those who followed Tahlad, left the other fair elves 50,000 years ago. Give or take. The documents state that they were mutated physically by leftover energies from the Ur-Daemon Wars.

The Faendryl were mutated by energies of Maelshyve, and they've only been under its influence something like 15,000 years.

Even though they've apparently developed along similar lines, there have to be differences. Noticable differences. For one thing, the Dhe'nar have been going along that evolutionary path for far longer than the Faendryl. For another thing, their climates and available food sources are vastly different. Thirdly, they've chosen different paths, different cultural lifestyles. Surely all of that has an effect on evolution.

I mean, I can tell an African of Egyptian descent from an African of Nubian descent. I can tell a Puerto Rican from a Cuban, a Korean from Chinese, an American Caucasian from European Caucasian. Oh, sure, it's not 100%, but it's not too hard.

Anyway, in conclusion, I don't think it's completely unreasonable from a strictly scientific point of view, to be able to tell apart the evolutionary divergances in Dhe'nar and Faendryl. Personally, I would have made the Dhe'nar a completely seperate race, but that's just me.

Exactly. But I think the obsidian tower's roleplay are supposed to be elitest, and would not just accept any member into their fold unless they accepted their policies.

I think some of the obsidian players are elitest themselves, and like they said.. they wouldn't roleplay with JUST anybody. ( I believe that is stated in starsnuffer's website. ) I think some of them enjoy the ability to be able to order, put down.. and alienate their fellow players as well. Me thinks they enjoy the sucking up to join their little club a little too much.

Having said that, I now think it's a really bad idea that simutronics made it official.. and probably kept the dhe'nari roleplay exclusively obsidian's.

[Edited on 7-31-2005 by Shalla]

[StrayRogue]

It's pretty OOC that you'd assume he's Dhe'nar just because you >looked at him and saw his culture. Did he have the traditional braids in his hair, or the headband? Did he speak Dhe'narisi? Or were you used using OOG info to whine?

[Shalla]

We don't have in game accents to be able to tell one's ethnic background either. text based game can be limited to looking at someone's ooc info's

[Edited on 7-31-2005 by Shalla]

[StrayRogue]

It's still OOC. There's more than one way to spot a Dhe'nar out without looking at their culture or listening to them speak.

[Shalla]

Are you talking about the initial post?

[StrayRogue]

I'm talking in general. When self proclaimed Queen of RP abuses a mechanic to learn OOG info on the character, I don't find that to be a great basis to create a thread whining about that players RP.

[Shalla]

I don't like showing my profession either, I wonder if I can turn my culture off too. At least, that way I can remove the oppurtunity from people using it.

Edit. Nope


>title clear culture
You cannot clear your culture at this time.



[Edited on 7-31-2005 by Shalla]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Shalla
Bloodline does not make you Dhe'nari.

No if's but's, or whatnot. It's either it does or it doesn't.Bloodline (alone) does not make one Dhe'nar.
You are not born Dhe'nari. You are initiated and taught to be a Dhe'nari.True.
You are born from 2 dhe'nari parents. but not initiated through the old ways. You will one day be a full fledge dhe'nar by accepting the Way. False. There's no fate but we make for ourselves. A true statement would be: "IF the child accepts and follows the Way, then the child will be Dhe'nar."

[Mesaphe]

Originally posted by Jolena

a few days back someone approached my empath, who is an Aelotoi, and asked to 'interview her'. The person interviewing her is a slave but not sure to whom. Anyhow, while my empath was being interviewed about her past and culture, the woman was writing it all down and a dark elven woman comes in named Vaedalis. She looks with interest at my empath and then nods and leaves after speaking to the interviewer in private. When she left, my empath askd who the woman was and the interviewer called her Mis'ra. I'm curious now as to what that word means etc.

cackle!

[Divinity]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm talking in general. When self proclaimed Queen of RP abuses a mechanic to learn OOG info on the character, I don't find that to be a great basis to create a thread whining about that players RP.

I know this is late coming, but I haven't read the threads in awhile so I'm still kinda reading and catching up.

Firstly.. it was all one big RP'ed joke of a scene.

Secondly, uhm.. no one was complaining.

Thirdly, never said I was Queen of anything. Coming from a British person, I guess you either mocked your own Queen because of the sarcasm used, or you really think I'm that special. (FYI: that was a joke too by the by.)

Anyways, I've run into Shimmerain often with that character. It was already previous knowledge for her.

You guys need to lighten up! Not every log posted is meant to be something bashing or NEENER NEENER YOU ALL SUX0RS.

Eesh.

[Divinity]

Originally posted by Jolena
Does anyone have a link to the Starsnuffer/Obsidian Tower documentation on Dhe'nar by chance? I'm a bit late into this debate but i've been watching it and have become rather interested.

a few days back someone approached my empath, who is an Aelotoi, and asked to 'interview her'. The person interviewing her is a slave but not sure to whom. Anyhow, while my empath was being interviewed about her past and culture, the woman was writing it all down and a dark elven woman comes in named Vaedalis. She looks with interest at my empath and then nods and leaves after speaking to the interviewer in private. When she left, my empath askd who the woman was and the interviewer called her Mis'ra. I'm curious now as to what that word means etc.

From what I've come to understand with my little time spent with Dhe'nar and learning the culture is this..

You are basically Pak'ra (sp?) because you are not pure elven. Aelotoi, from what I was told, get different reactions from different Dhe'nar because they really don't know what to think of them as of yet.

However, since Aelotoi were previously used as slaves, that's kinda the deal breaker for most.

Mis'ra is who she belongs to. Yes, she is property. So she uses the term, Mis'ra, as like.. Master. Easiest way to put it without going to all the different definitions I was told for it. Heh.

So, if you become this chick's slave, you will basically do what you are told, when you are told and yadda yadda. Why? Because you are not following The Way and that is what Dhe'nar are all about. Converting and putting everyone that is "lost" to the path of The Way.

(If I was wrong, pleaaaase correct me. Again, this is just some of the info I got while sketching just the mere surface of the Dhe'nar culture. Really, Evarin is the one to ask.)

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Divinity
that is what Dhe'nar are all about. Converting and putting everyone that is "lost" to the path of The Way.

(If I was wrong, pleaaaase correct me. ..
Sure thing.

The Firstborn have no interest in "converting the lost," as it were. Those who possess the capacity to follow The Way and the teachings of Noi'sho'rah will be recognized. Those who do not will be, at best, discarded and forgotten. More often, destroyed (if actually of the Blood).. or assigned some potentially useful servile status/position (if pakra'a).

Dhe'nar do not proselytize.

[Divinity]

Ahh ok cool. :) Thanks for the correct info.

It was explained to me, ig through rp, that this one slave would be lost without having a master. That all that are not "pure elves," like Sylvans and stuff, are guided or something similar.

Anyways, thanks again. Always love learning new stuff, and the Dhe'nar.. (I can't believe I'm actually saying this..) fasinate the hell out of me.

[Avaia]

Originally posted by Divinity
and the Dhe'nar.. (I can't believe I'm actually saying this..) fasinate the hell out of me.

Me too ;), and you're welcome.


It was explained to me, ig through rp, that this one slave would be lost without having a master. That all that are not "pure elves," like Sylvans and stuff, are guided or something similar.

Interesting. I don't know who you are in-game (and don't tell me!), but maybe while in Elanthia we will discuss the concept sometime. Although then again, we might not..... Avaia isn't a very nice person. S'pose we will see what time brings.

[Asha]

Avaia would probably tear my character a new arsehole if she saw him. She's hard as nails and fully, fully Dhe'nar.
Avoid, avoid.