Harness Power vs Mana Control

[Celephais]

I'de like to see some discussion evaluating the benefits of these two skills. Here are the points I would like to address.

I am going to assume HP is already 1x'd, so the evaluation is assuming 1 mana per rank. So HP will costs twice as much as MC (2nd training). I'm also talking post 24 ranks of MC, so sharing isn't a concern

Biggest concern - Mana Regen
Off/On node per 10 ranks
HP: +1.5/+2.5 (+0.75/+1.25 for equal TP)
MC: +1/+1

So the competing issues will be:
HP, greater mana capacity, greater wracks, better on node pulses
MC, Better mana drain, better off node pulses

How much does mana control really effect mana drain? (I think max is MjElem ranks... rate of no longer feeling the effects/points per failure? to what degree)

Hope this isn't too long winded...

[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Celephais]

[Kitsun]

Doubling in HP is kinda expensive. I went 1.5x HP and 1x EMC.

Someone on the official boards did some research and your total mana leechable is directly related to mana pool size.
Major elemental ranks is how much you can pull per single cast.
EMC affects the timer for how often you can leech more mana.

I'm not sure anyone has bothered doing any research on how many ranks of EMC to reduce mana pulled per X time.

[AnticorRifling]

I 1x HP and I stopped at 24 ranks of EMC. Works well for me but I don't use a ton of mana.

[Askip]

You might get more discussion if you try the Mechanics category, I am statisically challenged.

:D

"I was told there would be no math"

Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford, SNL

[Jayvn]

My harness is at 100 ranks..i just upped control from 30 to 40 and although I wasn't looking at exact numbers...I'm not seeing a different between 10 ranks that helps..and it's prett damn expensive for that little of a difference.. I think I'ma go back to dumping spare stuff into harness.

[Kitsun]

When you're spending 16 PTPs for 1 more mana, you're not really going to notice much of a difference dumping the points in HP over EMC.

[Stunseed]

I'm pretty sure my Wizard is going to 1x fully in both. At 50, he's 1.25x which I will slowly over time lower to 1x.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I 2x HP and 1x EMC, and I do great... but I've never spent any time crunching nums to see what's the best layout for me.

[Jayvn]

I had doubled in hp till 49? at 100 ranks I stopped..it was just a clean looking number for me, I'd be curious if anyone wants to post how much they get back a pulse off node compared to how much mana they have and how much control they have.

[Kitsun]

Well there's no secret to how much you pulse for.

15% of Max Mana returned when off-node
25% of Max Mana returned when on node

With 150ish ranks of HP, 362 mana, 101 EMC ranks - per pulse I get:
Off Node: 64
On Node: 100

[Jayvn]

ok here's a question then, at 35 or 36 ranks of mc do you get that extra mana,or does it round up or every 10 solid you get another mana on the pulse.

[AestheticDeath]

Well there's no secret to how much you pulse for.

15% of Max Mana returned when off-node
25% of Max Mana returned when on node

With 150ish ranks of HP, 362 mana, 101 EMC ranks - per pulse I get:
Off Node: 64
On Node: 100

that cant be right

lvl 12 wizard gets 12 mana per off node pulse
Strength (STR): 53 (1) ... 53 (1)
Constitution (CON): 54 (2) ... 54 (2)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Agility (AGI): 73 (21) ... 73 (21)
Discipline (DIS): 92 (16) ... 92 (16)
Aura (AUR): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Logic (LOG): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Intuition (INT): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Wisdom (WIS): 32 (-9) ... 32 (-9)
Influence (INF): 32 (-4) ... 32 (-4)


Shield Use.........................| 66 14
Physical Fitness...................| 50 10
Spell Aiming.......................| 114 28
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 66 14

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 11

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 12

lvl 34 sorcerer gets 30 per pulse

Strength (STR): 86 (28) ... 86 (28)
Constitution (CON): 81 (30) ... 81 (30)
Dexterity (DEX): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Agility (AGI): 70 (5) ... 70 (5)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Aura (AUR): 100 (15) ... 100 (15)
Logic (LOG): 65 (12) ... 65 (12)
Intuition (INT): 65 (7) ... 65 (7)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 45 (-12) ... 45 (-12)

| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Shield Use.........................| 82 18 36 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Brawling...........................| 0 0 35 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 0 0 5 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20 20
Arcane Symbols.....................| 130 35 35
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35 35
Spell Aiming.......................| 172 72 72
Harness Power......................| 167 67.381 41 36 days, 16 hours, 12 minutes
Elemental Mana Control.............| 163 63.404 35 35 days, 3 hours, 51 minutes
Spirit Mana Control................| 163 63.404 35 35 days, 3 hours, 51 minutes
Perception.........................| 130 35 35
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 20 4 4

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 29.691 20 7 days, 5 hours, 37 minutes

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20 20

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 20 34 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Training Points: 11 Phy 0 Mnt (180 Phy converted to Mnt)

[Kitsun]

Most of the stat info you posted is largely irrelevant.

Pulse On Node = [(Max Mana) * (0.25)] + (1 for each 10 ranks of the appropiate mana control except for hybrid casters)

I just checked with two of my characters and it holds true.

Wizard with 412 mana and 101 EMC ranks. I pulse for 113.
Bard with 256 mana and 10 EMC ranks. Pulsed for 65.

[AestheticDeath]

(1 for each 10 ranks of the appropiate mana control except for hybrid casters)

You didn't post this before, that makes it closer to the correct numbers.

I tested with the sorcerer, and it seems I can add both types of mana share, divide by 10, and multiply by .75, round down, and get the additional mana about right.
I would assume you probably get 1 per ten for your high share, then .5 for your second share. Or .75 if they are equal.

[Janarth]

You didn't post this before, that makes it closer to the correct numbers.

I tested with the sorcerer, and it seems I can add both types of mana share, divide by 10, and multiply by .75, round down, and get the additional mana about right.
I would assume you probably get 1 per ten for your high share, then .5 for your second share. Or .75 if they are equal.

I believe you get full bonus from the larger of the two, and half from the smaller. So if you have 30 ranks of ele, and 20 of spiritual (sorcerer here), then you'd get +4 to your pulse. With your method above, that would come out to +3, which I don't think is right. I may be wrong, but I can't test at work.

EDIT To clarify...its all rounded down. 30/10 = 3 for ele
Then (20/10)/2 = 1 for spiritual, 4. But, if you had say 50 ranks and 30 ranks you'd get 5 + 1 = 6 additional mana.

[AestheticDeath]

/\ what i said, means the same thing
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[Janarth]

/\ what i said, means the same thing
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No it doesn't, because of where the rounding comes in. You said:
I tested with the sorcerer, and it seems I can add both types of mana share, divide by 10, and multiply by .75, round down, and get the additional mana about right.

So if they have 50 ele, 25 spiritual:

75/10 = 7.5 * .75 = 5.625 = +5 mana per pulse (when you said round down, I assume you're talking an INT function)

My way, 50/10 = 5 for ele
(25/10)/2 = 1.25, INT to 1
So +6 mana per pulse.

Again, if you will:

80 ranks ele, 50 ranks spiritual
Your way would yield 9 mana per pulse, when my way would yield 10.

I posted because you said you got the mana "about right" - I want to see if the way I did it is always right.

[AestheticDeath]

You forgot to read the rest of the post.