More Explosions in the U.K.

[Terminator X]

i copied and pasted this here cause the forums here seem to be pretty politically sophisticated
LONDON (July 21) - Explosions struck the London Underground and a bus at midday Thursday in a chilling but far less bloody replay of the suicide bombings that killed 56 people two weeks ago.

Only one person was reported injured in the nearly simultaneous lunch-hour blasts, British Transport Police said, but they caused major shock and disruption in the capital and were hauntingly similar to the July 7 bombings by four attackers.

Panicked and screaming commuters fled the three affected Underground stations, sometimes leaving behind their shoes. Firefighters and police with bomb-sniffing dogs sealed off nearby city blocks and evacuated rows of restaurants, pubs and offices.

Prime Minister Tony Blair appealed for calm and said it was too early to tell who was responsible.

''We can't minimize incidents such as this,'' he said at a joint news conference with the Australian prime minister at No. 10 Downing St. ''They're done to scare people, to frighten them and make them worried.''

He held an emergency Cabinet meeting afterward but said no decisions ''of a policy nature'' were made.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair called it ''a very serious incident.''

''We know that we have four explosions or attempts of explosions, and it is still pretty unclear as to what has happened,'' he said outside Scotland Yard.

''At the moment the casualty numbers appear to be very low ... the bombs appear to be smaller'' than those detonated July 7, he said.


Explosions in London




An armed police unit entered University College hospital shortly after an injured person was carried in, Britain's Press Association reported.

Sky News TV reported that police were searching for a man with a blue shirt with wires protruding. Officers asked employees to look for a black or Asian male about 6-foot-2.

The attacks, which targeted trains near the Warren Street, Oval and Shepherd's Bush stations, did not shut down the subway system, only three of its lines. The double-decker bus had its windows blown out on Hackney Road in east London.

Witnesses told The Associated Press they did not hear a bang but smelled something similar to an electrical fire at the Warren Street station.

Police in chemical protection suits were at the Warren Street station, but no chemical agents were found.

Stagecoach, the company which operates the stricken bus, said the driver heard a bang and went upstairs, where he found the windows blown out. The company said the bus was structurally intact and there were no injuries.

The incidents paralleled the July 7 blasts, which involved explosions at three Underground stations simultaneously starting at 8:51 a.m., followed quickly by a bomb going off on a bus. Those bombings, during the morning rush hour, also occurred in the center of London, hitting the Underground from various directions.

Thursday's incidents, however, were more spread out.

Emergency teams were sent to all three stations after the incidents, which began at 12:38 p.m.

''People were panicking. But very fortunately the train was only 15 seconds from the station,'' witness Ivan McCracken told Sky news.

McCracken said another passenger at Warren Street told him he saw a backpack explode. The July 7 bombs were carried in backpacks, police said.

McCracken said he smelled smoke, and people were panicking and coming into his carriage. He said he spoke to an Italian man who was comforting a woman after the evacuation.

''He said that a man was carrying a rucksack and the rucksack suddenly exploded. It was a minor explosion but enough to blow open the rucksack,'' McCracken said. ''The man then made an exclamation as if something had gone wrong. At that point everyone rushed from the carriage.''

Losiane Mohellavi, 35, who was evacuated at Warren Street, said, ''I was in the carriage and we smelled smoke - it was like something was burning. Everyone was panicked and people were screaming. We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking.''

The U.S. Embassy was closed to visitors about two hours after the blasts as a precaution, but embassy staff continued working, said spokeswoman Susan Domowitz.

The explosions came as Pakistani intelligence officials said authorities are seeking the former aide of a radical cleric in Britain in connection with the July 7 bombings.

The officials said British investigators asked Pakistani authorities to search for Haroon Rashid Aswat, who reportedly had been in close contact with the suicide bombers just before the July 7 attacks.

Aswat, 31, was of Indian origin and may not be in Pakistan, according to two intelligence officials in Islamabad and one in Lahore, all speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to talk to the media and because of the sensitivity of the investigation.

Aswat reportedly was once an associate of Abu Hamza al-Masri, the radical imam who is awaiting trial in Britain on charges of incitement to murder. Al-Masri also is wanted in the United States on charges of trying to establish a terrorist training camp in Bly, Ore.; involvement in hostage-taking in Yemen; and funding terror training in Afghanistan.

Quoting unidentified intelligence sources, The Times of London said Aswat visited the hometowns of all four London bombers and selected their targets. It also reported there had been up to 20 phone calls between Aswat and two of the bombers in the days before the attacks.

Aswat's relatives in Batley, near the northern English town of Leeds, which was home to two of the July 7 suicide bombers, said they had not heard from him for many years.

''He has not lived at this house and we have not had contact with him for many years,'' said his father, Rashid, who asked for his family to be left in peace. ''There is no story that we can provide.''

Authorities are investigating whether the London bombing suspects, three of whom were of Pakistani origin and traveled to Pakistan last year, received training or other assistance from militants in that country.

One of the July 7 bombers, Shahzad Tanweer, 22, is suspected of visiting a madrassa linked with militants in Lahore which has become a focus of the inquiry.

According to a report in a Pakistani newspaper, Tanweer revered Osama bin Laden. The English-language Dawn newspaper said Tanweer visited relatives in November in a farming village near Faisalabad in eastern Pakistan. During his weekslong stay, he was visited by another suicide bombing suspect, Mohammed Sidique Khan, 30, Tanweer's uncle told the newspaper.

Pakistan has pledged to curb religious extremism amid international concerns that Islamic schools, or madrassas, are promoting extremism.

[Xcalibur]

We're at war, man, we're at war.

[Terminator X]

what?

[Terminator X]

re-reading this article, i'm kinda a lil pissed off actually that it was all 'holy-shit-top-news-red-font' alert in my browser

[Xcalibur]

We are at war, man. We are at war.

[Terminator X]

my bad , i need to not take everything so literally, sheesh!

[Back]

I’ve read that UK officials claim these bombings have no direct link to their policy on the Middle-East or the war in Iraq.

Dosen’t that seem odd to anyone else? Isn’t it patently obvious that the bombings are a direct result of UK’s involvement in the war?

[Sylph]

I think they are to distract from a large attack on the US which they must be planning...

[Janarth]

Fulton street statopn is closed due to a suspicious package. For those of you not from NYC, its on the Lex Ave line, and one stop up from Wall Street...a lot of people who work in the financial district also use Fulton. I came in okay, only noticed my station was closed when I went to get lunch. God dammit...now, I won't just be sweating from the oppressive heat, but the threat of blowing up too...great. I should really call my mother...

[Back]

Yeah, I metro to and from work here in DC. Only 4 stops for me so I’m not too freaked out. But it gives you a good excuse to come in super early and hit happy hour before you head home.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
Isn’t it patently obvious that the bombings are a direct result of UK’s involvement in the war?

No, not really.

We were attacked by the same people before this second Iraq war ever started.

People like you make me sick, truly.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Hulkein]

While I'm not gonna go with the whole "You make me sick thing" I'm gonna have to agree. The Western world has been the target of terrorists for a long time, and it's doubtful that things woulda just stopped if we had never done "Iraq".

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by Backlash
Isn’t it patently obvious that the bombings are a direct result of UK’s involvement in the war?

No, not really.

We were attacked by the same people before this second Iraq war ever started.

People like you make me sick, truly.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Hulkein]

Uh, ok. How is coming to that conclusion making you, or anyone else, sick?

[Anebriated]

I agree with hulkien as well. Because rather than finding out why it was done and who did it you jump straight to the conclusion that it was a direct result of the war and they are obviously to blame. Just my guess.

[DeV]

War and terror have always been forms of ultimate social control. Who benefits?

I think the war in Iraq has been more about changing America than it's been about changing Iraq. Baseless maybe, but it's something I've thought about.

[Hulkein]

It makes me sick that you have the type of attitude that 'oh, well, it must have been because of our actions that they attacked them.'

Fuck that, people were getting attacked for no other reason than holding a different point of view than them long before the war in Iraq.

[DeV]

What's happening to the people in the UK is what has me sickened. Their resolve is impressive though, as someone previously mentioned.

[Back]

Originally posted by RangerD1
While I'm not gonna go with the whole "You make me sick thing" I'm gonna have to agree. The Western world has been the target of terrorists for a long time, and it's doubtful that things woulda just stopped if we had never done "Iraq".

Well I guess only the guys who blew themselves up know for certain.

And, sure, I can see your point. But how can anyone say that the war could never be a factor in any terror attck since it started? That just dosen’t seem realistic.

[Hulkein]

How about we just cut to the chase.

Do you blame the current leaders of the UK for the terrorist attacks because they went into Iraq with us?

To answer your question... They have more than enough reason in their twisted heads to attack the UK or any other freely elected non-Islamic Western nation WITHOUT the war.

[DeV]

Also, what is even more sickening is when people say we should level off cities and blow entire countires off the continent in order to fight the war on terror. Does that mean London should meet that same fate? I would think not, and I would also hope that those who've felt that way in the past rethink their ideas now that this is hitting much closer to home.

I agree, DeV.

We can't level cities. In fact, I strongly believe that will do us more harm than good as it will just unify the enemy. The only way to destroy a Guerilla movement is by destroying their support structure. Violent purges and executions have proven a failure as proved in the Russian Front during WWII as it only united the Russian resistance.

- Arkans

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein
How about we just cut to the chase.

Do you blame the current leaders of the UK for the terrorist attacks because they went into Iraq with us?

To answer your question... They have more than enough reason in their twisted heads to attack the UK or any other freely elected non-Islamic Western nation WITHOUT the war.

It sounds like you want me to say the UK leaders knowingly and willingly bombed their own people.

Thats not at all what I am saying, or believe. All I am saying is how can you think that any terror attack that happens/happened after the Iraq war could in no way be directly related to or as a result of the war in Iraq?

For whatever reason they bombed London, it sort of seems like a foregone conlusion it was in some way related to the war in Iraq and that does not seem like a wild stretch of the imagination.

[Hulkein]

<< It sounds like you want me to say the UK leaders knowingly and willingly bombed their own people. >>

No, that's not what I was even asking.

When I say 'do you blame the current leaders of the UK,' I mean do you place the blame of the terrorist attacks on their shoulders because they decided to go into Iraq?

I don't mean do you think they orchestrated them... That never even crossed my mind. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Hulkein]

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Hulkein
How about we just cut to the chase.

Do you blame the current leaders of the UK for the terrorist attacks because they went into Iraq with us?

To answer your question... They have more than enough reason in their twisted heads to attack the UK or any other freely elected non-Islamic Western nation WITHOUT the war.

There is a great interview in Time "Inside the mind of a suicide bomber" or something like that. This was an actual member of the suicide bomb squad from Zakawi's Al Qaida. One of the top three reasons this Iraqi is a suicide bomber is the continuing occupation of Iraq by outside forces.

It would be an interesting read for you Hulk...

I'm just glad it wasn't as bad as the previous.

Stay safe everyone.

[Hulkein]

Well, if you're going to blow yourself up in a car to take out American soldiers in Iraq (like Zarqawi's men do, and since you didn't mention it, I assume this guy is an Iraqi), you're obviously doing it because you're against the occupation.

My point is, even without the war, there were terrorist attacks and there would continue to be terrorist attacks.

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein
<< It sounds like you want me to say the UK leaders knowingly and willingly bombed their own people. >>

No, that's not what I was even asking.

When I say 'do you blame the current leaders of the UK,' I mean do you place the blame of the terrorist attacks on their shoulders because they decided to go into Iraq?

I don't mean do you think they orchestrated them... That never even crossed my mind. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Hulkein]

No, but you may as well have asked me that because thats what you are implying. You are implying that my conclusion that terrorists bombed London is because the UK went to war in Iraq means that I place the blame of the bombings on the shoulders of the leaders of the UK. No, I don’t. Not even close. Terrorists did it. Homicidal, suicidal, sociopathic religious murderers did it. You can’t blame anyone for doing that except the terrorists themselves.

[Anebriated]

I’ve read that UK officials claim these bombings have no direct link to their policy on the Middle-East or the war in Iraq.

Dosen’t that seem odd to anyone else? Isn’t it patently obvious that the bombings are a direct result of UK’s involvement in the war?

I think that is what Hulkien was trying to point out moreso than what you just said.

[Jolena]

Well, I do agree with Backlash on the opinion that the war in Iraq and our continued occupation of the country probably was part of the reason UK has been attacked. Do I consider it a reason to pull out of supporting the war in Iraq? No.

I agree that they don't need a war to use as a reason to attack the UK or any other country that doesn't believe the way they do. It has and will most likely continue to happen across the world until the power structure is destroyed. I do however think that they will use the war on Iraq as just one more reason to conduct their terror raids upon us and other countries that support the war.

And no, before someone says it, I do NOT blame the UK for the attacks. It's a horrible pathetic thing that has happened both to the Americans and to the UK. The only people to blame for these attacks are the people who commit them.

[Back]

Well it just dosen’t seem like that far of a stretch of logic to me in this particular case. I didn’t hear anyone claim it was about something other than the war, and if al Qeda is involved it seems abundantly clear. If there is a flaw in the logic, please by all means correct me on it.

[Terminator X]

<<I’ve read that UK officials claim these bombings have no direct link to their policy on the Middle-East or the war in Iraq.>>

being a non-UK official, i can confidently tell you that i too, am sure that it is more than entirely possible that shitstains upset with things like the war in iraq, and here is the kicker, amongst other things, would actually be upset and act upon some of these apparently uncontrollable emotions , heck, i think that even some soopa-smart UK officials themselves might believe this....
however , since this was more of, 'hi, i'm a very touchy egyptian mofo who lives in leeds and just happens to have a degree in biochemistry who helped some fucks act dumb,' and not exactly 'hi, i'm a very touchy iraqi who lives in leeds and just happens to have an embezzlement ring absorbing 100+ million in dollars from u.n. funds in iraqi-restoration' it may be possible, and even safe to assume dat the UK-officials may actually have a hint of intelligence above a military level....

and shoot, man, sometimes you just have to try your best to not only interpret everything just objectively, but non-literally as well....

.....or else we might actually start to think the country of canada is currently using its one plane army to oust joseph stalin

Originally posted by Xcalibur
We're at war, man, we're at war.

:smilegrin:

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by Hulkein
How about we just cut to the chase.

Do you blame the current leaders of the UK for the terrorist attacks because they went into Iraq with us?

To answer your question... They have more than enough reason in their twisted heads to attack the UK or any other freely elected non-Islamic Western nation WITHOUT the war.

There is a great interview in Time "Inside the mind of a suicide bomber" or something like that. This was an actual member of the suicide bomb squad from Zakawi's Al Qaida. One of the top three reasons this Iraqi is a suicide bomber is the continuing occupation of Iraq by outside forces.

It would be an interesting read for you Hulk...

I'm just glad it wasn't as bad as the previous.

Stay safe everyone.

The bomber is going to blow himself up in Iraq in that article. Of course that's why hes doing it. HES NOT BLOWING HIMSELF UP IN LONDON.
Perhaps you need to reread the article so you understand it.

[Hulkein]

You want a flaw?

You asked if it was a direct result.

No, it's not a direct result of the war in Iraq, as it was happening before.

<< and if al Qeda is involved it seems abundantly clear >>

How so?

Al Qaeda was attacking civilians before we ever even stepped foot back on Iraqi soil en masse.

[Warriorbird]

Kuwait's pretty close.

[Tromp]

[/quote]

The bomber is going to blow himself up in Iraq in that article. Of course that's why hes doing it. HES NOT BLOWING HIMSELF UP IN LONDON.
Perhaps you need to reread the article so you understand it. [/quote]

So al Qeda acting in Iraq killing American's is not on the same lines as al Qeda blowing themselves up in London kill Brits?

[Anebriated]

Two of the most powerful targets in the world are the United States and the United Kingdom. What surprises me the most is that it took this long for the UK to be a target. Also the bombings there started within a week of the Olympic commitee announcing their decision. They will soon be the target of millions of athletes and tourists, why not attack there if you are trying to make a point?

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Dave
The bomber is going to blow himself up in Iraq in that article. Of course that's why hes doing it. HES NOT BLOWING HIMSELF UP IN LONDON.
Perhaps you need to reread the article so you understand it.
after we bombed them to shit, they got so upset that they actually crawled out of their cardboard boxes and took their privately owned helicopters to London :oops:

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Elrodin
Two of the most powerful targets in the world are the United States and the United Kingdom. What surprises me the most is that it took this long for the UK to be a target. Also the bombings there started within a week of the Olympic commitee announcing their decision. They will soon be the target of millions of athletes and tourists, why not attack there if you are trying to make a point?
the IRA did some hideous shit in the UK back in the day what have you

Originally posted by Tromp


The bomber is going to blow himself up in Iraq in that article. Of course that's why hes doing it. HES NOT BLOWING HIMSELF UP IN LONDON.
Perhaps you need to reread the article so you understand it. [/quote]

So al Qeda acting in Iraq killing American's is not on the same lines as al Qeda blowing themselves up in London kill Brits? [/quote]

Yes, very good.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by Backlash
Isn’t it patently obvious that the bombings are a direct result of UK’s involvement in the war?

No, not really.

We were attacked by the same people before this second Iraq war ever started.

People like you make me sick, truly.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Hulkein]

75% of Britains believe that their is a causal relationship between the war in Iraq and the London bombings. One even interrupted a CNN broadcast on the streets of London to say so.

These bombings are unique. Before the war in Iraq the bombers were Arabs, despite the fact that Arabs only constitute 11% of Muslims. There is a belief among many Muslims since the invasion of Iraq that the countries involved has launched a war upon Islam itself.

So Backlash is not alone in his beliefs.

[Miss X]

I believe there is a somewhat loose connection between the two events. I also believe our Government should have listened to the majority of our population when we said No to war, alas, that was not to be. Now innocent people in our country are paying the price...

[Terminator X]

^

just curious,
if the prime minister and his administration had not invaded iraq , would you not have that quote in your signature? or is that some kind of satire :?:

[Tromp]

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Tromp]

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Tromp]

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Terminator X
^

just curious,
if the prime minister and his administration had not invaded iraq , would you not have that quote in your signature? or is that some kind of satire :?:

I find the statement slightly ironic, since by invading Iraq, we have ourselves caused death and destruction to innocent people. However, I agree with the sentiment of the statement.

[Terminator X]

Well, if it makes you feel better, I am quite certain that dumb people find excuses. Period.

Originally posted by Miss X

Originally posted by Terminator X
^

just curious,
if the prime minister and his administration had not invaded iraq , would you not have that quote in your signature? or is that some kind of satire :?:

I find the statement slightly ironic, since by invading Iraq, we have ourselves caused death and destruction to innocent people. However, I agree with the sentiment of the statement.

Yep you're right being that the whole reason for the war is to kill as many innocent people as possible.

[Miss X]

I quite agree, hence using the words "somewhat loose connection." I believe many terroists will simply use any current political scandal as an excuse, or to somehow justify mass murder. I am not qualified to give an indepth analysis of the situation, as my knowledge is not at that level and I believe it would be foolish to do so. I have my opinion though, and stand by it.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Hulkein
You want a flaw?

You asked if it was a direct result.

No, it's not a direct result of the war in Iraq, as it was happening before.

<< and if al Qeda is involved it seems abundantly clear >>

How so?

Al Qaeda was attacking civilians before we ever even stepped foot back on Iraqi soil en masse.

Spain and Engand are attacked since the invasion of Iraq. Causal relationship.

Did Islamic terrorists every blow up things in England or Spain before the war in Iraq.....NO.

The Royal Institute of International Affairs in Britain has reached the same conclusion as Backlash that there is a causal relationship between the war in Iraq and the London bombings.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Miss X

Originally posted by Terminator X
^

just curious,
if the prime minister and his administration had not invaded iraq , would you not have that quote in your signature? or is that some kind of satire :?:

I find the statement slightly ironic, since by invading Iraq, we have ourselves caused death and destruction to innocent people. However, I agree with the sentiment of the statement.

Yep you're right being that the whole reason for the war is to kill as many innocent people as possible.

I'm not willing to get into a debate about the moral rights and wrongs of the war on terror, or Iraq, whatever the current politically correct term for it is. This has been done, time and time again.

I did not say, or insinuate that I believed the reason for going to war was to kill innocent people. Unfortunately, that is the terrible result of any war, I do not feel comfortable with that. You are free to disagree with my opinion, just as I am free to most vehemently disagree with yours.

Then there is no irony in the statement. One has the motive to kill innocents, another is to fight a war.
IMHO

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Dave
Then there is no irony in the statement. One has the motive to kill innocents, another is to fight a war.
IMHO

We do not see things through a collective set of eyes so to speak. Where I see irony, you may not. I would never consider myself intellectually superior enough to discredit the opinion of most of our posters, including yourself.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Dave

Yep you're right being that the whole reason for the war is to kill as many innocent people as possible.

Well now I was going to respond to this rather Creative rewording of what Miss X said but then thought since you say things so well i'd use your own words.


Originally posted by Dave
That's not what I said, but continue to put words in my mouth if it makes you feel better. You seem to be good at that lately.

surprise surprise. try reading what was said later instead of trolling.

Shouldent the above off topic post be removed?

[Skirmisher]

No.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
Then there is no irony in the statement. One has the motive to kill innocents, another is to fight a war.
IMHO

....and innocents are never killed in war.

BTW where are those weapons of mass destruction we use to hear about every night on TV?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Dave
Shouldent the above off topic post be removed?

Why, did she alter your quote?

[xtc]

The Good News is that most of the bombs failed to go off...Thank Allah, Lord, Yahweh, Ganesh, Buddha, Christ, Moses, Mohammed and others.

CNN LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/21/london.tube/index.html)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
If there is a flaw in the logic, please by all means correct me on it.Not all terrorists are Al-Qaeda.
Originally posted by xtc
Spain and Engand are attacked since the invasion of Iraq. Causal relationship.The Cold War started after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. Causal relationship. America was attacked after the Waco incident. Causal relationship. The Mets lost after New York didn't get the Olympics. Causal relationship. I posted this after toj got banned. Causal relationship.

[Terminator X]

The Good News is that most of the bombs failed to go off...Thank Allah, Lord, Yahweh, Ganesh, Buddha, Christ, Moses, Mohammed and others.

That is good news...

But I am kind of absolutely certain that this will probably be bad news for conservatives, as it does entail the explanation for the not-detonation of those $3.59 discount panzerkamphvagon WWI shells that were just media-hyped to my web browser's 'Critically Acclaimed Top News' section. It will be tricky.

:smug:

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc
BTW where are those weapons of mass destruction we use to hear about every night on TV? Dave is right on that! We can rest assured.

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Backlash
If there is a flaw in the logic, please by all means correct me on it.Not all terrorists are Al-Qaeda.
Originally posted by xtc
Spain and Engand are attacked since the invasion of Iraq. Causal relationship.The Cold War started after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. Causal relationship. America was attacked after the Waco incident. Causal relationship. The Mets lost after New York didn't get the Olympics. Causal relationship. I posted this after toj got banned. Causal relationship.

Maybe in crazyland, but in reality there is cause, effect, action, reaction, logic and common sense.

[xtc]

Originally posted by LatrinsormOriginally posted by xtc[/i]
Spain and Engand are attacked since the invasion of Iraq. Causal relationship.The Cold War started after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. Causal relationship. America was attacked after the Waco incident. Causal relationship. The Mets lost after New York didn't get the Olympics. Causal relationship. I posted this after toj got banned. Causal relationship. [/quote]

Canada not bombed
France not bombed.
Portugal not bombed
Mexico not bombed
Luxembourg not bombed
Brazil not bombed
Argentenia not bombed
New Zealand not bombed
India not bombed
China not bombed

America attacked
England attacked
Australian tourists in Bali attacked

Australia, Italy and Japan threaten by Al Qaida

How ridiculous of The Royal Institute of International Affairs in England to conclude a causal relationship.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by xtc
Canada not bombed
France not bombed.
Portugal not bombed
Mexico not bombed
Luxembourg not bombed
Brazil not bombed
Argentenia not bombed
New Zealand not bombed
India not bombed
China not bombed

America attacked
England attacked
Australian tourists in Bali attacked

Australia, Italy and Japan threaten by Al Qaida

http://www.bettybowers.com/graphics/but_poland.gif

[Terminator X]

:rofl:
do you have a JPEG for every occasion?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
Maybe in crazyland, but in reality there is cause, effect, action, reaction, logic and common sense.The idea that all terrorists are Islamic and that a little invasion is more important than the state of Israel to Islamic terrorists defies two of the above items.

xtc, like too many people (BUT NOT WEZAS <3<3), you forgot about Poland. You remember, the country that's both closer and less secure than England? I'd hardly consider a video tape an attack, btw, and that's the worst thing America has seen since the invasion. If you meant Americans in Iraq, then yes. Generally war involves being attacked. 2 for 4 isn't bad in softball (ironically that's how I did tonight) but it's pretty poor for logic.

edited p.s: nm

[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[Hulkein]

What a surprise, the two largest Western targets have been bombed by Islamic extremeists.

You can't say for sure that it is a causal relationship when there are too many other variables.

Good thing America was never bombed before the Iraqi war......

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Backlash
Maybe in crazyland, but in reality there is cause, effect, action, reaction, logic and common sense.

The idea that all terrorists are Islamic and that a little invasion is more important than the state of Israel to Islamic terrorists defies two of the above items.
[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Latrinsorm]

I’ve never said even on my craziest days that all terrorists are Islam or all Islam are terrorists. Thats more of the kind of rhetoric you’ll get from Pat Robertson (http://mediamatters.org/static/video/700club-200507180003.mov). (I swear I am not making that up. Click the link for quicktime proof) I thought you knew me better than that. :(

I think your assertion that the invasion (little? what planet are you from anyway? Bizzaro world where everything is the opposite?) needs to be compared to Isreal in the eyes of Islam defies most of those things.

Maybe you haven’t heard the reports from around the world that this war is BREEDING opposition which we might consider terrorist in action. Maybe you haven’t Seen the repeated tapes from Osama and others who work for him declare Jihad on America and the western world which came out after the invasion.

[Edit to add quicktime link]

[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Backlash]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
little?Normandy is big.
it was in some way related to the war in Iraq Saying this before the people have even been caught implies that all possible terrorists must have some sort of interest in Iraq.

The point of bringing up Israel is the British created Israel, which is a much bigger affront. Yet, you feel that the Iraq invasion is what pushed them over the edge. Ionno man.

[Back]

Yeah well I’ll say it again, it just does not seem like too big a stretch of the imagination to think so. It might have been the price of milk, sure, but lets be a little down to earth about this stuff.

You bring up WWII, like the war in Iraq is supposed to resemble it somehow, then go on to surmise that the UK was the sole creator of Isreal, which is another subject entirely, when it was the Allies, Russia, Canada, Ethiopia, and France included, amongst many, (Poland too) who opened the door for Isreal.

[edit to change Axis to Allies. That was a huge typo]

[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Backlash]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
You bring up WWII, like the war in Iraq is supposed to resemble it somehowWhat invasions am I supposed to compare it to? Texas? China? There are very few invasions I can think of that were smaller, hence I describe it as "little".
It might have been the price of milk, sure, but lets be a little down to earth about this stuff.Anyone who says "I'm going to change anyone's mind by blowing up a lot of entirely uninvolved people" is well beyond the scope of logic.

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Backlash
You bring up WWII, like the war in Iraq is supposed to resemble it somehowWhat invasions am I supposed to compare it to? Texas? China? There are very few invasions I can think of that were smaller, hence I describe it as "little".
It might have been the price of milk, sure, but lets be a little down to earth about this stuff.Anyone who says "I'm going to change anyone's mind by blowing up a lot of entirely uninvolved people" is well beyond the scope of logic.

I think you just defined “terrorist”.

[Hulkein]

If you had said 'the war in Iraq played a part in the bombings,' I probably would've remained silent because obviously you can't rule that out.

Saying the bombings are a DIRECT RESULT is something I will not accept. They have proven that it doesn't take something like a war in Iraq to kill innocent lives. It's nothing more than excuse to most of the terrorist... especially those of Pakistani descent born and raised in London.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Hulkein
It's nothing more than excuse to most of the terrorist... especially those of Pakistani descent born and raised in London.

Isn't that a little racist or stereo typing.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by Hulkein
It's nothing more than excuse to most of the terrorist... especially those of Pakistani descent born and raised in London.

Isn't that a little racist or stereo typing.

Not if he is saying that Pakistani Muslims that were born in Britain who are using the war in Iraq as an excuse to bomb civilians in London are disengenuously using a convenient but unfactual reason to justify or excuse their actions.

If he is saying all Pakistanis born in the UK are terrorists, then that is of course racist and stereotyping, but he isnt saying that.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, thanks Nien.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Backlash

I’ve never said even on my craziest days that all terrorists are Islam or all Islam are terrorists. Thats more of the kind of rhetoric you’ll get from Pat Robertson (http://mediamatters.org/static/video/700club-200507180003.mov). (I swear I am not making that up. Click the link for quicktime proof) I thought you knew me better than that. :(



I clicked the link.

I think it's wrong to say that all terrorists are Islamic... especially when you have "patriots" like Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh.

In the beginning and end of the video, he does make the fallacy of saying that terrorism is uniquely Islamic.

However, in the middle, he asks us to question what the hell is really going on here.

I agree with him, and that it's going to take a long, hard look at what the core of this ideology teaches, even if it's not politically correct to do so.

What was that line from "The Usual Suspects"?

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

I'm not saying that Muslims are the devil, but this "peaceful religion" shit has to stop.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by longshot
I'm not saying that Muslims are the devil, but this "peaceful religion" shit has to stop.


"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
Ann Coulter


Originally posted by longshot
...but this "peaceful religion" shit has to stop.

Raven

[Xcalibur]

We will only live peacefuly when one of the 2 big "power" is down.

Unfortunately for them, the strongest is also the most advanced.

p.s. Fuck them:clap:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by longshot
...but this "peaceful religion" shit has to stop.



"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."
-- Randall Terry


"We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."
--Jay Grimstead


"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."
--Rev. Joseph Morecraft,Chalcedon Presbyterian Church, Marietta, Georgia


"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion--must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel."
-- Gary North

Just couldn't resist adding some more from our "American Taliban".

Raven

[Hulkein]

I didn't realize Ann Coulter was a founding religious figure.

Giving her a bit too much credit, I think.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by longshot

In the beginning and end of the video, he does make the fallacy of saying that terrorism is uniquely Islamic.

However, in the middle, he asks us to question what the hell is really going on here.



The problem is that too many people will ONLY remember the beginning and the end.

Accidental on his part?

Maybe.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I didn't realize Ann Coulter was a founding religious figure.

Giving her a bit too much credit, I think.

I'll agree on this point.

Heck, saying that Ann Couter can form a coherent sentence would be giving her too much credit.

[Back]

Actually, I do find her humorous and a little hot.

[Ilvane]

heh, she's ridiculous, that Ann Coulter.

-A