Another guy who's going straight to hell.

[Edaarin]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/07/15/national/a135213D40.DTL

From AP Breaking News:

"A T-ball coach allegedly paid one of his players $25 to hurt an 8-year-old mentally disabled teammate so he wouldn't have to put the boy in the game, police said Friday.

Mark R. Downs Jr., 27, of Dunbar, is accused of offering one of his players the money to hit the boy in the head with a baseball, police said. Witnesses told police Downs didn't want the boy to play in the game because of his disability.

Police said the boy was hit in the head and in the groin with a baseball just before a game, and didn't play, police said.

"The coach was very competitive," state police Trooper Thomas B. Broadwater said. "He wanted to win."

Downs has an unpublished telephone number and couldn't immediately be reached for comment Friday. It was unclear whether he had an attorney.

He was arrested and arraigned Friday on charges including criminal solicitation to commit aggravated assault and corruption of minors. He was released from jail on an unsecured bond.

The alleged assault happened June 27 in North Union Township, about 40 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, authorities said.

The boy's mother asked state police to investigate her son's injuries because she suspected Downs wanted to keep the boy off the field, despite a league rule that required each player to participate in three innings a game, Broadwater said.

Eric Forsythe, the president of the R.W. Clark Youth Baseball League, said Downs had two daughters on the T-ball team.

League organizers investigated accusations against Downs before the T-ball season ended earlier this month but could not prove that he did anything wrong. If Downs is convicted of any crime, he won't be allowed to be a coach next year, Forsythe said. The league is not affiliated with Little League International."

[Artha]

I find it amusing that the guy's last name is Downs.

Which probably means I'll be right there beside him in Hell :(

[Jolena]

What. The. Fuck.

This makes me so angry I honestly don't think there's much else I can say at this time.

Oh yes there is. I hope someone kicks him in HIS nuts and perhaps a whack over HIS head will help his ineptness as a fucking human being.

[MangledKitty]

That's so sad. The guy is sick in the head.

[Back]

Competition is healthy.

[Gan]

Reminds me of when I played little league baseball. There was this one kid who was slow but not classified as retarded or autistic. The coach [allegedly] used to tell him to 'crowd' the plate in hopes of getting him on base. One particular instance he crowded the plate and leaned in and over according to the dictates of his stance.

Yes, one of my high inside pitches nailed him in the ribs. Yes he got on base. Yes it sucked because I threw pretty hard and it was confirmed later with xrays that I cracked a rib. Yes they pulled him from the game and sent him to the ER. Yes his loud and lengthy crying unnerved me to the point that they pulled in relief and I sat out the remainder of the game. Even 12 year old's have a conscious. :(

The head coach of that team was asked not to return the next day, by the league president. They should have charged him with something too.

[Hulkein]

I'm all for competitiveness in sports...... But it's TEE BALL.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I'm all for competitiveness in sports...... But it's TEE BALL.

It's tee ball to us, but think of the kids playing?

Should they have their hard work and enjoyment destroyed by having to put in a kid that really shouldn't be there in the first place?

I mean seriously... how is it going to help the retarded kid's self esteem when he decides to drool all over the ball while the bases clear?

I'm not condoning in any way what the coach did, and he will be riding the express train to 9th circle of hell...

but, I really think we need to examine these touchy-feely everyone gets to play rules.

Kids can't even play dodgeball in school anymore....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BITCH GOT SERVED (the disabled kid)

- Arkans

[Edaarin]

The sad truth of it is, there's a good chance he just wants to play and be accepted. Even mentally ill kids want to fit in. I think they should be given the opportunity, especially at this young age.

These are like 2nd and 3rd graders, they shouldn't be that focused on playing to win just yet.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Edaarin
The sad truth of it is, there's a good chance he just wants to play and be accepted. Even mentally ill kids want to fit in. I think they should be given the opportunity, especially at this young age.

These are like 2nd and 3rd graders, they shouldn't be that focused on playing to win just yet.

Yea, it's T-Ball ... "Competition" should not really come into play till they're off middle-school age... around 13 yrs.

Any coach (and I've played Little League for several years) that anxious to win over a T-ball game needs to have his self-esteem reevaluated.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Edaarin
The sad truth of it is, there's a good chance he just wants to play and be accepted. Even mentally ill kids want to fit in. I think they should be given the opportunity, especially at this young age.

These are like 2nd and 3rd graders, they shouldn't be that focused on playing to win just yet.

I agree. I think 12 or 13 is a good age to start making things "real"... having tryouts and cuts, etc.

I reread my last post, and it sounded way too harsh...

[Edaarin]

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

There are most definitely some ridiculous parents out there who are murderous on their sons even earlier than 7 or 8, and the competetiveness rubs off.

[Hulkein]

Well, from what I remember in Tee-ball, every game the coaches said it was a tie no matter what.

That's why I don't see the harm in letting everyone play.

Trust me, I hate that shit once the kids get a little older, but tee-ball is really played at an age where you won't remember much of it by the time you're 18 years old.

[Artha]

T-ball is like, first grade and kindergarten, when you're too young to even hit a slow ball thrown by your coach.

[Skirmisher]

I hope he is sentenced to many years in prison as he is a vile ugly man who was willing to harm not only one, but both children to help satisfy his own megalomaniacal need to win even at something as innocent as T ball.

[Hulkein]

We're missing a huge piece to this story.

Did his managerial decision to peg the retarded kid with balls pay off with one more in the W column?

[Edited on 7-20-2005 by Hulkein]

[JadeScarlet]

Sometimes I think that little league should just been disbanded.

Think about it. If a kid wants to play baseball, what is stopping him. S/he can call 1-2 friends, mom/dad can take them to the park, they can pitch to each other and throw the ball around and chase each other and get exercise have a great time without any of this

"GOD DAMN YOU LITTLE PIECE OF SHIT IF YOU SCREW UP IN THE FIELD ONE MORE TIME YOU'LL BE SORRY! I'M BENCHING YOU FOR THE REST OF THE GAME SO EVERYONE INCLUDING YOUR PARENTS WHO ARE SITTING IN THE STANDS CAN SEE WHAT A LOSER YOU ARE"

That happened to me in 8th grade softball. I like baseball, softball but I have poor vision and depth perception so I can't really catch anything in the air, which was why the coach was yelling at me. I quit that year though because I got fed up with the coach making me cry every game.

T-ball is for 5-6 year olds and the fact that the coach though it necessary to beat up a 5 year old shows that something is really messed up in his head. The competition shouldn't be a factor until age 13+ as far as I'm concerned and even then only in school competitions. I doubt many parents are paying money for their kids to be in little league just so the kids can be verbally abused by coaches.

I worked at a summer camp and in every game we played, the score was always 7-7. Thats the way kids sports should be.

You're right.. Kids should definately be taught to not be competative. It mimics real life so closely. Everyone knows that without a competative spirit they still will get into the best schools, always get the job, and be able to advance themselves in the best way. Screw teaching them to try hard.. everyone knows it's always a 7 to 7 shot to getting what you want.

:noob:


- Arkans

[Brattt8525]

>>I doubt many parents are paying money for their kids to be in little league just so the kids can be verbally abused by coaches.<<<

You do realize that parents are doing this to their own kids right? And in alot of cases parents are the worst offenders.

What this coach did is wrong on so many levels and I hope he pays out his butt.

And a lot of kids are learning valuable life lessons in competative Little Leage sports. They are also having great times as well.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

Gosh gee. I'm going to agree with Arkans. I had a great time in Little League. I couldn't hit for anything but led my league in stolen bases. Not everyone's going to be good at the "huge competitive dream", but Little League can teach you areas of value if you work at it.

The issue here is a moronic coach. You shouldn't say all coaches are bad because one is.

[CrystalTears]

T-ball is a little soon to be that competitive and that coach was really wrong there.

However I'm of the opinion that once it becomes regular competitive softball, kids that are chosen should be the ones who can actually play. Chosing kids to be part of a team just because they should be given a chance doesn't teach them anything other than they can get their way if they yell and complain loud enough.

Once upon a time you were chosen due to your talents and skills. If you weren't chosen, you either worked harder to get there, or moved onto something else. Always getting what you want when you don't really deserve it creates these problems. However I would never be for hurting a child no matter the sport.

T-ball is for everyone. That coach needs a kick in the teeth.

The Earth is abviously going to be engulfed in fire and brimstone now, WB.

- Arkans

[Caiylania]

He deserves some seriously harsh punishment........ god sometimes I wish we did eye for an eye.

That poor child.

[Hulkein]

If it was eye for an eye he'd let the retarded kid throw two baseballs at him, shrug it off, and go back to the bar.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Atlanteax

Originally posted by Edaarin
The sad truth of it is, there's a good chance he just wants to play and be accepted. Even mentally ill kids want to fit in. I think they should be given the opportunity, especially at this young age.

These are like 2nd and 3rd graders, they shouldn't be that focused on playing to win just yet.

Yea, it's T-Ball ... "Competition" should not really come into play till they're off middle-school age... around 13 yrs.

Any coach (and I've played Little League for several years) that anxious to win over a T-ball game needs to have his self-esteem reevaluated.

I was going to say the size of his cock, but self-esteem works too.

-M

[OreoElf]

LOL ES... you made me snort laugh.

This guy was really disturbed/disturbing... I think there's a big point between healthy and unhealthy competetion. You don't have to scream at people and verbally abuse them to get results IMO. I don't think anyone in children's sports should... yelling and getting them pumped up to encourage them is great, but its also ok to let them know they're all valueable in some way, which isn't always sports. Violence towards any children, and even teens, by a supervising adult should be met with the full extent of the law. There's some sick f***s out there.

[Shalla]

Originally posted by longshot

I reread my last post, and it sounded way too harsh...

Yes, you're just mean.

[Dwarven Empath]

:moon: Thats where I wanna kick him!

[Showal]

<<The Earth is abviously going to be engulfed in fire and brimstone now, WB.

- Arkans >>

Yeah, but not because of the coach or this story, because of your terrible attempt at spelling -O-bviously.

Anyways, they have leagues dedicated for handicapped/disabled/"retarded" kids. I understand that there's a feeling of getting these kids involved with "normal" kids their age, but that idea really needs to be looked at. Would a disabled kid really do better on a team when they hear their teammates groan when they get up to the plate?

I had an eye injury to my left eye and go figure, I bat righty. When you bat righty, your left eye is the main one directed at the pitcher and seeing the ball. My batting probably was around 0.050 after I got the injury. Every time I got up to bat, I'd hear some groans and snide remarks. I don't blame them. I sucked and now I wanted to stop playing baseball. I was lucky though, my coach lived 2 doors down from me and he decided one day to teach me how to bat lefty. Now granted I never got the full hang of batting lefty, I still ended up batting considerably better than before.

The point of the story is that kids, even disabled ones, can pick up on how their teammates are feeling about them. I don't believe it really helps self-esteem, it can even hurt it. I feel like they should get involved in a league designed for people who are disabled, so they can be competitive and have fun. There was a blind baseball league outside my old apartment that would have a ball that would beep. They had a ton of fun.

People need to realize, there are limitations. I understand people are brave and courageous and not going to give up, but sometimes you can't do everything. I had to teach swim lessons and my aide was a kid with spinal dipita (sp?). The kid, a friend of mine, was in a wheelchair and that made it very very difficult for me to teach. A swim aide will give demonstrations and help monitor kids in the pool. My aide obviously could not do this. When you take kids off the diving board, the teacher or the aide will lower the kid off the board into the arms of the other one in the water. I couldn't do this with my class. As terrible as it was, I'm sure my aide picked up that it was frustrating to me and that the kids weren't very happy with it.

There's my opinion and I'll probably go to hell for it.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I couldn't hit for anything but led my league in stolen bases.

So that explains it.

You kept leaning into the plate to get beaned and the automatic walk.

Explains a few things. :saint:

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Showal



The point of the story is that kids, even disabled ones, can pick up on how their teammates are feeling about them. I don't believe it really helps self-esteem, it can even hurt it. I feel like they should get involved in a league designed for people who are disabled, so they can be competitive and have fun. There was a blind baseball league outside my old apartment that would have a ball that would beep. They had a ton of fun.


There's my opinion and I'll probably go to hell for it.

Nah, you won't go to hell, but you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.

We are talking about T-ball here.

Not regular little league with an actual pitcher and catcher.

At that age it is up to the coach and parents to make sure to SHOW thier children the proper way to behave, not let some mob rule negative feelings aspect control the situation.

Sorry, I just disagree entirely that there is ANY room for any of the sentiments about the need to win at that age. There is plenty of time throughout life for them to see how crappy and underhanded people can be and the need to strive to be as good as you can.

I just think it can wait till at least after T-ball.

[Skeeter]

The point of T-Ball is learning to play the game. People with Mental Retardation are already incredibly discriminated against, why feel the need to take more away from them?

If it was the black kid they beat up so he couldn't play I bet the outcry from some of you would be entirely different.

Also...Arkans you're the one who says kids shouldn't even be touched when they're kicking the shit out of an innocent goose. I guess if the kid has MR it's ok to beat him up though. Hypocrite much?

[Gan]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
At that age it is up to the coach and parents to make sure to SHOW thier children the proper way to behave, not let some mob rule negative feelings aspect control the situation.

Sorry, I just disagree entirely that there is ANY room for any of the sentiments about the need to win at that age. There is plenty of time throughout life for them to see how crappy and underhanded people can be and the need to strive to be as good as you can.

I just think it can wait till at least after T-ball.

Agreed.

Competition is healthy, but it should be introduced gradually in sports, and after a certain age of development in the participant, and it looks as in this case, the coaches.

Mob rule and parents living vicariously through their children in sporting events allow the introduction of an adult's concept and intensity of competion into a child's activity, and its dead wrong, and a sad testiment of the parents/adults partaking in it.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Skeeter
The point of T-Ball is learning to play the game. People with Mental Retardation are already incredibly discriminated against, why feel the need to take more away from them?

If it was the black kid they beat up so he couldn't play I bet the outcry from some of you would be entirely different.

I think it's sad that you're comparing a black person to a handicapped person. Seriously.

I have no problem with handicapped and mentally challenged people competing in sports. However I do feel that they should compete with each other in a controlled environment.

They ARE special, and have special needs, and throwing them with regular kids (who can be just as brutal, if not worse at time, than parents and coaches) won't help them in the long run, and need guidance to help them develop to the point of being able to challenge others who aren't as special.

[Skeeter]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I think it's sad that you're comparing a black person to a handicapped person. Seriously.

I have no problem with handicapped and mentally challenged people competing in sports. However I do feel that they should compete with each other in a controlled environment.

They ARE special, and have special needs, and throwing them with regular kids (who can be just as brutal, if not worse at time, than parents and coaches) won't help them in the long run, and need guidance to help them develop to the point of being able to challenge others who aren't as special.


While granted it's not exactly the same there are similarities. The kid has as much control over being MR as the other kid has of being black.

The point was that he's being discriminated against for something he has absolutely no control over. Also...I "assume" that likely the kid has a very mild case of MR, and if not consistently pointed out by parents and coaches the other kids, especially at that age, would become more accepting of people with handicaps. Isn't the point of sports at that level to learn to socialize and work together while learning the aspects of the game?

[DeV]

Thank you CT... I was just going to say, WTF. Why's it gotta be a black comparison. Damn.

Anyway, I do agree that it's freakin t-ball, it should be about learning the basics of the game but more importantly about having *fun*. Every mentally challeneged child is not on the same level and some are able to socialize just fine with peers who are not handicapped. What this coach did is beyond reproach. Hopefully he is extremely ashamed of his actions and never has a handicapped child himself.

[Skeeter]

Originally posted by DeV
Thank you CT... I was just going to say, WTF. Why's it gotta be a black comparison. Damn.


Because if I said Islam fundamentalist nobody would care.

[CrystalTears]

Dude! I hope that was sarcasm. Races are not a valid comparison to handicaps!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Skeeter

Originally posted by DeV
Thank you CT... I was just going to say, WTF. Why's it gotta be a black comparison. Damn.


Because if I said Islam fundamentalist nobody would care. I don't know about that. I just don't see the comparison of someone who is mentally handicapped and "no race mentioned/listed" to someone who is black and not mentally handicapped. But that's just me.

[Warriorbird]

"They ARE special, and have special needs, and throwing them with regular kids (who can be just as brutal, if not worse at time, than parents and coaches) won't help them in the long run, and need guidance to help them develop to the point of being able to challenge others who aren't as special. "

Considering some of the antics of pro athletes... a lot of them are real "special" too.

Some kids are able to compete. Let em. When there's a point to cutting them, go for it, but until then? What harm is there in allowing them to try?

I also don't think Arkans condoned hitting the kid anywhere, for the record, Skeeter.

"So that explains it.

You kept leaning into the plate to get beaned and the automatic walk.

Explains a few things."

I slid into first on bunts, too, Wezas. Pete Rose is my hero!

:grins:

[Showal]

<<At that age it is up to the coach and parents to make sure to SHOW thier children the proper way to behave, not let some mob rule negative feelings aspect control the situation. >>

Yeah I understand that aspect of it, but from what I remember of T ball, the kids were still very competative. Even the kids who stood in the outfield throwing their hat and glove up, pretending to make major league style catches, they all were still competative. Regardless of whether I agree with t ball, of all things, being competative, it still is. Kids when I was younger boasted about their winning records -- even when everyone gets up at bat and that runs and outs are not counted, a lot of the kids still kept track in their own head. I remember my t ball team had the most wins, at least that's what the kids on the team thought and they constantly made comments about it in school, at recess, at sleepovers, etc.

No, it's not right that it's that competative at that age and people definitely brought that out in the kids, but it is the way it happens ... at least in my hometown. Then again, in my hometown, parents would brag about their kids passing Red Cross Advanced Toddler swim levels and yell at me if I didn't think their kid should move on to the bigger pools at age 4-5.

That's the perspective I was looking at it from, but I agree, it's not the way I should have to look at it.

[Showal]

While the "Because if I said Islam fundamentalist nobody would care. " comment was pretty funny (another reason I'm going to hell), black does not equate to physical or mental handicap.

But I guess the way some people look at basketball, being white is along the same lines of a physical handicap. I guess that's why I never got any good at it!

[Skeeter]

Ok fine...I never said I was good at comparisons and it's starting to derail my point. So substitute an appropriate comparison that fits your sensibilities.

Arkans "served" comment on the first page of this thread, while I'm sure was a weak stab at humor, certainly didn't seem to fit in with his "goose kicker" thoughts.

Of course maybe ARkans associates goose kicking, with goose stepping and that's why someone stopping a young hitler from goose stepping insulted his white power rightousness. :smilegrin:

I in no way condone hitting children. This was made abundantly clear in my thread when Killer Kitten just tugged on a kid's shirt. Few things make me sick and hitting kids is one of them.

- Arkans

[Skeeter]

Originally posted by Arkans
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BITCH GOT SERVED (the disabled kid)

- Arkans


:whistle:

I don't see how the above is me condoning the attack on a child.

- Arkans

I chuckled a little at that and thought it was sad.
Just like i chuckled at the story about the guy who kicked one of them little dogs over a house, and thought it was a little bit sad
(btw the guy who kicked the dog over the house got 2 years in jail for cruelty to animals)

:lolwave:

That fuck had a foot on him then.

- Arkans

it was one of them real little ones, the neighbors dog, his friend held it like a football kickoff....

You have absolutely no idea how hard this makes me want to laugh.

- Arkans

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Arkans
I don't see how the above is me condoning the attack on a child.

- Arkans

It seemed like that to me also. :shrug:

Satire is great, though few people (it's maddening to see how many, even to this day) still don't see it when I use big letters and poor grammer.

Anyway, besides trying to explain myself, there was a whole thread about hitting children and my opinion was made very clear (and big letters wern't used)

- Arkans

[Showal]

While big letters indicated satire in Arkans' post, it does not indicate satire in my quote in his sig.