GSIV vs WOW

[allen]

I know a few people from GS who play both games...Don't think I'd have time for that, but what's the ups and downs if I were to quit GS and play WOW. If anyone knows.

[Asha]

Didn't we already establish they couldn't be compared, since they're totally different games?

Play GS for roleplay.
Play WoW for gameplay.

[allen]

Sorry, this is the first time I read this thread. Relax pal.

[Nieninque]

Positives about WoW over GS.
Easier to reach end-game (level wise).
End-game in WoW does not mean end of game (as in GS more or less) - game starts getting fun at cap.
Easier to get good quality gear.
Less snertish behaviour (pvp-wise) that is unaccountable (by which, I mean that a capped char in WoW can be taken down by a bunch of low level chars, whereas in GS you cant get through the DS).
Range of ways to progress through the game.
No hunt-rest-hunt-rest. Can go as long as you want hunting or questing if you want and still gain exp.
Quests are interesting and some are really fun (Lazy Peons ftw)
Choice of server depending on your interests (RP, normal or PvP)
Graphics
Guilds
Professions
Ever updated game.
bugs are usually dealth with fairly rapidly.
Blizzard frown upon and take action upon bug abusers/bought accounts (look out Toj)

Cons:
RP isnt as good as in GS (although depending on where you are that is debatable). I have spent a few brief periods on AD recently and have seen some cool RP by random people in stormwind.
Graphics - so it takes away the imagination side of the game that you have in GS.
OOC chat is commonplace. Makes you cringe when you first switch from GS.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Drayal
Didn't we already establish they couldn't be compared, since they're totally different games?

Play GS for roleplay.
Play WoW for gameplay.

Of course you can compare them.
And there is RP in WoW...on the RP servers. There ARE real RP snobs on the RP servers who take it very seriously, so if you really want RP in WOW, you can find it.

[Asha]

Originally posted by allen
Sorry, this is the first time I read this thread. Relax pal.

Haha, you sound like Micheal knight.
Anyway, just simplifying the whole debate for you, Mr Touchy!

[Nieninque]

I dont see how you can say that they cant be compared.
You can compare pretty much anything. Two computer games seem pretty easy to compare, IMHO.

[Asha]

Okay okay, they're totally different games. Leave GS and start WoW. That's your best bet. They can be compared. They can be compared to show how different they are from eachother.

I'm sure you'll love it. Then if you don't, resart GS.
Relax pal.
:D

[Nieninque]

Yes they are different.
Very different in fact.
I think what allen was asking is what are the pros and cons of one over the other.
Fair question, if you ask me. Im sure there will be lots of debate as to the benefits of each game. I would say though that someone who has played only one of the two is probably not qualified to stifle the discussion before it has started. :saint:

[Asha]

I agree Neininque.
I've just been reading the previous threads and comparisons.

Which I suppose this poster , Allen will be doing since that's what he asked for.
Unless what's posted here means nothing, then I know nothing, then there's no point in asking for opinions on this board in the first place.

I submit. I need to fucking buy a new computer so I can play this big exciting , GS beating game.

[Makkah]

I say quit GS and play WoW.

Noone likes you in GS anyways.

[Wezas]

WoW Benefits:

Playing GS3 and then playing Diablo - I kept saying to myself, if only rare items/weapons/armor would drop occasionally in GS3, it would be a much better game.

Once I heard that Blizzard was putting out this game, I knew it was going to get my attention. I was a Diablo II fiend for a while, and spent hours just doing runs on low level bosses to get rare/set weapons, armor, shields, etc to give away to lower level people.

Personally I've only found maybe 5 dropped blues (which are semi-rare, but not as rare as epics) in WoW so far. And they're found at all levels. You can just start the game and be incredibly lucky and find a green (enchanted in some way) or blue (semi-rare) weapon that makes your game life so much easier/better.

Also, if GS3/4 would just create some quests for people to do (even 20-30 person quests to kill a rediculous amount of high level mobs) it would be much more interesting. Doing that but also keeping the long-term quests (GSS for example) might do them good.

Being able to take down ubar people. In GS3, there's a few characters that can only be killed by a handful of people. They're just that high of level and have uber gear. In WoW, 4-5 younger characters can dispatch a capped player rather easily if they plan it well enough. No more untouchables.

GS3 benefits: Roleplay, pickpocketing from other players, more detailed show descriptions (for people like Jesae), being able to cast at anyone (including people of your own race/faction).

[Tsa`ah]

Adding to the differences

GS: Small community with localized annoyances.
WoW: Large community with general annoyances.

GS: Slow almost non-existent bug fixes, updates, and implementation.
WoW: Weekly (at the very least) bug fixes, updates, and implementation.

GS: High end items available to those who have the patience to stalk GM merchants in game or shell out the cash.
WoW: High end items available to everyone be it by some off chance drop or through instance hunting. Of course some items are still available with the right cash, but once equipped ... off the market for good.

GS: Capped means Uber. You can throw your weight around and be a jackass while only fearing your peers and GMs.
WoW: Capped means dick. A large enough mob of lower level creatures or characters can still take down a capped character. Although still don't like the idea of being feared by a character half my training while a character equal to my training can readily resist a feign.

w0w has pictures

[Xcalibur]

GS is more expensive too. ($$)

[Nieninque]

Geez...X brings up a good point.
In gemstone, the more prestigious events are usually attended only after the exchange of RL money is parted over and above the monthly fee. In WoW everything is included at the basic monthly fee

[CrystalTears]

::nothing to see here, she didn't beat Wezas to the punch::

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Wezas]

[Wezas]

In addition to what X/Nien have said, the "Premium/Platinmum" plans that GS3 have are also an advantage that WoW has.

Plus the fact that they have dozens of developers working on cranking out new areas and I'm sure an expansion pack soon.

And hopefully we won't see price increases in service like GS3/4:

Free
to
$9.95/mo w/ $1 for each addt'l
to
$14.95/mo w/ $2 for each addt'l

vs.

Wow's $12.99/mo (if you pre-pay 6 months, $14.99 otherwise)
10 characters per server. 50 characters total.

[Tromp]

Ok now my interested is peaked. Been thinking about trying WoW for months now. Very informative thread.

Do you need like a totally beefed up graphics card + mega memory to enjoy it?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tromp
Do you need like a totally beefed up graphics card + mega memory to enjoy it?

Windows® System 98/ME/2000/XP OS:

800 MHz or higher CPU
256 MB or more of RAM
32 MB 3D graphics card with hardware transform and lighting, such as GeForce 2 or better
4 GB or more of available hard drive space
DirectX® 9.0c or above
A 56k or higher modem with an Internet connection

Faster computers with better video cards won't bog down as much in places like Ironfroge - where there's massive graphical information coming through.

It runs just fine on my work Laptop. 1.6ghz M processor, 1gb RAM, 32mb Radeon 9000

[Asha]

My graphics card is 64mb, in the laptop.
Thing is if it doesn't have hardware T&L, I should just forget it right?

[Tsunami]

Wezas, you know you want to come back to GS....got a diamond in my pocket fer ya. :yes:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tsunami
Wezas, you know you want to come back to GS....got a diamond in my pocket fer ya. :yes:

That's be a change.

http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/Ophe.jpg

To me, the quests are the best about WoW.. Advancement in GSIV is fucking boring as hell. It was okay with 50k per level, but any game that I need to wait 3 weeks to level even when grinding hardcore? Ew..

- Arkans

[Fallen]

How one compares the roleplay in a graphical RPG to a text based one confuses me.

With text, you can do so much more than with graphics. Your character can express themselves through motions and movements that simply aren't possible beyond the few emotes offered on games such as WoW

Your character cannot be anywhere near as personalized as in a graphic based game. In GS, you can customize each and every article of clothing to exact specifications. Your features, tattoo's, weaponry..everything can be made your own.

In terms of roleplay, how anyone can compare the two forms is beyond me. There are no limits to text, as it uses one's imagination to set the scene, instead of the restrictions placed upon a world that has been already created in polygons and pixels.

Beyond that, you lose the history of a game that has existed for literally decades. Thousands of characters have come and gone, with a few leaving lasting relics and changes upon the world in which we play. Massive events, storylines, and global phenemons have shaped the face of Elanthia time and again. There is no game that can match such a claim.

WoW is a videogame
Elanthia is a world unto itself.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Arkans
To me, the quests are the best about WoW.. Advancement in GSIV is fucking boring as hell. It was okay with 50k per level, but any game that I need to wait 3 weeks to level even when grinding hardcore? Ew..

- Arkans

i agree, it takes too long to level when you hit higher levels in GS. allthough you are flat out lying when you say it takes 3 weeks even when grinding hardcore.

Heh.. The world of Warcraft (not the game, but the actual world) has just as much history as Elanthia does. The game has been around much longer than just WoW. It's been here for about 11 years now. Each game had its own storyline.

Warcraft: Orcs and Humans
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
Warcraft II expansion: Beyond the Dark Portal
Warcraft III
Warcraft III expasion: Frozen Throne
World of Warcraft

Each and everyone of those games expanded the history and world into leaps and bounds. Every zone in WoW is one found in those games (for instance in Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, the invasion of Azeroth starts in Swamp of Sorrows)

Anyway, saying you can't compare the games.. Eh, I thought that, but honestly, they're both video games. One you need to actually put in effort to get into and the other one comes really effortlessly. One rewards you for advancement and the other one punishes you for it.

- Arkans

I takes me about 3 weeks or so to get from level to level in the highs 70's when I really want to advance. This is playing above and beyond the "average" gamer and thus becomes completely unacceptable.

- Arkans

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Tromp
Ok now my interested is peaked. Been thinking about trying WoW for months now. Very informative thread.

Do you need like a totally beefed up graphics card + mega memory to enjoy it?

I started playing on my laptop, which is a P4 1.7 with 384 MB RAM and an old 32MB video card (Nvidia GeForce4Go). I had to set the graphics for WoW to minimum detail, but it did run "fine" and I could even have IE open in the background to look up quests. I still play on it from time to time (although I did upgrade it to 1 GB of RAM for about $100).

I did eventually put together a new PC... I did get a semi-decent graphics card (Radeon x800XL with 256MB video RAM), but it's nowhere near top of the line. Now I play on an AMD XP 3000+ (not top of the line either) with a gig of RAM and it runs great. I get 90+ frames per second at times (with most graphics maxed) and can switch applications easily.

RAM is super cheap nowadays and is a good upgrade in almost any situation.

Give it a shot! be sure to look up the PC gang if you end up on a server we inhabit (Dunemaul and Argent Dawn cover most of the PC gang I think).

[hectomaner]

i need 101000 to get from 77 to 78. it will not take me anywhere near 3 weeks to obtain this. with xxx, and absortion rates at higher levels, that is a 2 week job max, unless you log in and hunt 2 times and log out each day

Or you put a lot more days than I do to level up. Grinding for 4-5 hours is all about I can stomach for in a day. More than any normal or same person should be required to do. To have to do that and still only level up one level is absolutely nuts.

- Arkans

Originally posted by hectomaner
i need 101000 to get from 77 to 78. it will not take me anywhere near 3 weeks to obtain this. with xxx, and absortion rates at higher levels, that is a 2 week job max, unless you log in and hunt 2 times and log out each day

Yeah, I just think GS4 sucks when compared to the old GS3. There was actually a reason to level back then...meaning you actually improved. I only play nowadays to see friends.

Whoever had that brainstorm about cutting 60 levels out of the game so that they'd have to do less critter/event work, was a real dumb ass.

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Arkans
I takes me about 3 weeks or so to get from level to level in the highs 70's when I really want to advance. This is playing above and beyond the "average" gamer and thus becomes completely unacceptable.

- Arkans

There is a dead zone in the 70's, I agree. Once ya ya can hit the Ducts though, it quickens up. I think it was taking me about 2 weeks to level before I left for WoW, that's with XXX in the 90's in OTF and non-hardcore playing (around 15 hours a week). I'd probably be almost 97 now if WoW hadn't gotten in the way. I don't know if I'll ever cap now.

Advancement in WoW does slow down though... I think having the quests and stuff to do make it easier to deal with the longer times between leveling, and as someone new to WoW, everything is new to me so exploring is fun again.

It could have been a lot worse with us seeing upwards of 300k per level. Imagine that shit.

Regardless, they really gutted the fun of advancement with GSIV. Spending all that time just for a shitty 4 CS.. Heh.. No thanks.

Not only that, but the game doesn't really encourage you to start new characters or anything.

- Arkans

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Arkans
Heh.. The world of Warcraft (not the game, but the actual world) has just as much history as Elanthia does. The game has been around much longer than just WoW. It's been here for about 11 years now. Each game had its own storyline.

Warcraft: Orcs and Humans
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
Warcraft II expansion: Beyond the Dark Portal
Warcraft III
Warcraft III expasion: Frozen Throne
World of Warcraft

Each and everyone of those games expanded the history and world into leaps and bounds. Every zone in WoW is one found in those games (for instance in Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, the invasion of Azeroth starts in Swamp of Sorrows)

Anyway, saying you can't compare the games.. Eh, I thought that, but honestly, they're both video games. One you need to actually put in effort to get into and the other one comes really effortlessly. One rewards you for advancement and the other one punishes you for it.

- Arkans

Not to mention there are actual books based on Warcraft. The characters that you hear about in the quests. The history behind alot of the quests. As far as history and background story, I don't know if you can even compare them.

[CrystalTears]

If there were more activities granting experience, it would help me enjoy GS again. The fact that ONLY hunting creatures gains experience makes it tedious. At least with WoW you have quests that garner experience in addition to what you learned while questing.

And you don't really need to hunt the same thing for 5+ levels in WoW. I don't even think I've hunted the same creature for more than one or two quests, let alone for levels on end.

Professions may cost money in all instances, but at least the ones in WoW are worth something to other players. Unless things have changed recently in GS, you couldn't really make true items of value. And waiting around for merchants to hope for alterations is just not worth it after a while.

[Edited on 7/18/2005 by CrystalTears]

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Arkans
Or you put a lot more days than I do to level up. Grinding for 4-5 hours is all about I can stomach for in a day. More than any normal or same person should be required to do. To have to do that and still only level up one level is absolutely nuts.

- Arkans

so thats 8 days, assuming 1 is a longer day with xxx, at 5 a day, 8 is no where near 21

Divided all that time it comes out to three weeks until I see a level. I'm going based on how time is distributed not total length of time. NO ONE plays one level straight. C'mon now.

- Arkans

I agree. The profession system is leaps and bounds above Gemstones considering, if you're not like me and don't start picking them up end game, you advance them when you are out in the wilds.

I picked up mining and engineering. Mining to make money and to help my engineering and engineering for the cool little toys you can create. Mind control hats, netomatics, sticks of TNT.. Just seems fun.

My alt will most likely be a tailor and something else. Not quite sure yet, but it's all damn fun.

- Arkans

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Trouble
There is a dead zone in the 70's, I agree. Once ya ya can hit the Ducts though, it quickens up.

yes, this is very much the truth. temple and tower get extremely boring, allthough you can hit the rift for a while, much more fun, but once you hit the ducts, then proper a few trains later, it is more interesting


Originally posted by TroubleI think it was taking me about 2 weeks to level before I left for WoW, that's with XXX in the 90's in OTF and non-hardcore playing (around 15 hours a week).

this is very much a lie. you were not leveling every 2 weeks at only 15 hours a week. try to not overexaggerate things so much.

The Rift has gotten so boring it hurts. Also, another problem with GS advancement, is that you are punished for gaining levels. I despise how I have to isolate myself just to hunt in high level areas. This is not the case in WoW at all.

- Arkans

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Wezas
GS3 benefits: Roleplay, pickpocketing from other players, more detailed show descriptions (for people like Jesae), being able to cast at anyone (including people of your own race/faction).

I just saw a UI mod for pickpocketing on Curse. Is there pickpoceting in WoW (I assume so)? How extensive is it?

Originally posted by Trouble

I just saw a UI mod for pickpocketing on Curse. Is there pickpoceting in WoW (I assume so)? How extensive is it?

Yeah, rogues can pickpocket. I usually only make 1 or 2 gold off you when we hunt together. :D

You can really only use it to steal from humanoid critters while stealthed. It's probably worthwhile in certain areas, but not a skill I use often.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Arkans
The Rift has gotten so boring it hurts. Also, another problem with GS advancement, is that you are punished for gaining levels. I despise how I have to isolate myself just to hunt in high level areas. This is not the case in WoW at all.

- Arkans

How's that new high level hunting grounds coming along?

Fucking Simu.

[Trouble]

Originally posted by hectomaner

Originally posted by Trouble
I think it was taking me about 2 weeks to level before I left for WoW, that's with XXX in the 90's in OTF and non-hardcore playing (around 15 hours a week).

this is very much a lie. you were not leveling every 2 weeks at only 15 hours a week. try to not overexaggerate things so much.

Sheesh, relax bub. I haven't played in over a month now, I don't remember exactly how much I played. I just know it took me 2 weeks to level. Take a pill or whatever it is you do whenever you take (virtual) life too seriously.

I'd play the full 6 hours of XXX on Sundays, then for like 4 hours each Monday and Tuesday, then maybe one more session another time during the week...

So at 2k an hour:

6 * 3 = 18 (XXX)
4 * 3 = 12 (XX)
4 * 2 = 12 (2 4 hour sessions)
========
42k exp per week for 14 hours, so 84k for the two weeks, so yeah, it's short. I apologize, are ya happy?

Maybe they were 5 or 6 hour sessions on Mondays and Tuesdays, making it closer to 18 or 20 hours a week. Frankly, I don't care.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Arkans
I agree. The profession system is leaps and bounds above Gemstones considering, if you're not like me and don't start picking them up end game, you advance them when you are out in the wilds.

I picked up mining and engineering. Mining to make money and to help my engineering and engineering for the cool little toys you can create. Mind control hats, netomatics, sticks of TNT.. Just seems fun.

My alt will most likely be a tailor and something else. Not quite sure yet, but it's all damn fun.

- Arkans

very good point. my rogue is tailoring/leather working. my warlock does skinning/enchanting. i can skin for leather working, and do leatherworking/tailoring to help supply materials to break for enchanting.

i think i'm about to pick up engineering and dump tailoring though. professions are a very nice touch that GS can't touch, IMO

[Asha]

Unless the changes to gaining EXP make levelling less tedious, I'll be retiring my character.
Hunting as a sorcerer is the most amazing fun, but doing it again and again through neccessity kills it.
Plus the fact I'm in GMT timezone, means I don't see many other players. It's boring most of the time.
It's looking like either WoW or a new workout routine are gonna soon take over from GS.
Fuck workouts!!

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
Yeah, rogues can pickpocket. I usually only make 1 or 2 gold off you when we hunt together. :D

You can really only use it to steal from humanoid critters while stealthed. It's probably worthwhile in certain areas, but not a skill I use often.

Pickpocketing is good in areas with lots of humanoids (humans, tauren, orcs, goblins, etc). Especially for rogues who can steal lockboxes that they can use to up their lockpicking skill (usually only coins and maybe a potion in it). As for what else can be stolen: coins, gray items (basically crap), potions, and the occasional cookbook on how to prepare humans.

Grey items arn't crap! At level 54 I can drops on grey items that sell to vendors for almost 1 gold. Definately a nice way to pad the pocket.

- Arkans

[Fallen]

There are actually 3 80+ new hunting grounds that have been announced. One on Teras, one near the Stronghold, and I believe one near Pinefar.

As for alternate experience gains, two new systems are being produced. The first is the windmill in Icemule Trace. It will be the first of the alt EXP gain systems. Icemule has a fairly strong community, plus a high level hunting ground in Pinefar. One could hunt the Rift, then if they wish to be around others, run the alt experience quest.

Second, there will be the bounty system. Multiple instance type missions, much like those seen in other games. Along with being rewarded experience for hunting during the mission, one is granted bounty points for completing each quest. I am very much looking forward to the bounty system.

Its true that GS will not be able to crank out new additions as quickly as WoW. One is a gigantic company, the other is relatively small. Also, when dealing with GS, you must ensure whatever you make is compatable with more than a decade's worth of code.

[Wezas]

Someone mentioned this (perhaps not in this thread):

In GS3/4, when you grind and grind and grind your way from level 79 to level 80, you get what, +5 to your CS? A few defensive points?

In WoW, every even level you can train in new useful skills and upgrades. Also each level (after level 10) you get a talent point that can be used to make your character learn a new skill or improve on a current one. Thus making the character more your own and less cookie-cutter.

Also, if you have a weapon or wearable that is above your current level (be it from the auction house, guild member, or one of your professions) - it gives you something to push towards using. In GS3/4, after you reach 25, you can use basically every single item in the game.

Willl be...
Might be...
Could be...

It ain't there. The only way I can hunt is to isolate myself. The end. I'll believe it when I see it and so far I havn't seen jack. Also, the windmill has already been annouced as being inferior to gaining xp to grinding whereas questing is leaps and bounds above straight up grinding in WoW.

- Arkans

[AnticorRifling]

I just bought WoW (and a a video card to play it) and it's a good game. I find different things I like about GS and WoW they aren't the same thing and never will be. Which one will I spend my time on? Not sure. I'm so close to getting to the rift with Anticor in GS and Anticor in WoW is only lvl 10.

I don't like the fact that I know jack shit about WoW. Everywhere I turn I've got stupid questions that make me look like a jack ass, well more so than normal :cool:

Both good games, both different, both look like they will keep me interested. The only downside is I will always be behind because things like church, the gym, etc mean I'm only playing a few hours a week if I'm lucky.

[Hulkein]

Just make sure you log off in a place where your character is getting rest, Anticor. Every inn in towns give rest, and anywhere in Orgrimmar gives rest.

That's one positive about not playing that much... when you do play, you'll get max xp.

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Hulkein]

[Asha]

Anticor, once you get to the rift you'll probably be wondering why on earth you're still playing GS.
I think WoW might be what I need.

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

I don't like the fact that I know jack shit about WoW. Everywhere I turn I've got stupid questions that make me look like a jack ass, well more so than normal :cool:


Just send a /whisper to someone in the guild. I doubt anyone is going to be bothered by the whisper, and if they are I'm sure they'll let you know.

The most important command is /NO.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Arkans
Grey items arn't crap! At level 54 I can drops on grey items that sell to vendors for almost 1 gold. Definately a nice way to pad the pocket.

- Arkans

True, there are some good grey drops. But I haven't seen any good grey pickpocketed items yet. At least not from the mid-late 50's crowd (aka PB's age)

[Fallen]

It ain't there. The only way I can hunt is to isolate myself. The end. I'll believe it when I see it and so far I havn't seen jack. Also, the windmill has already been annouced as being inferior to gaining xp to grinding whereas questing is leaps and bounds above straight up grinding in WoW.

- Arkans >

What is Isolated about Ta'Illistim? What level are you?

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Wezas
Someone mentioned this (perhaps not in this thread):

In GS3/4, when you grind and grind and grind your way from level 79 to level 80, you get what, +5 to your CS? A few defensive points?

In WoW, every even level you can train in new useful skills and upgrades. Also each level (after level 10) you get a talent point that can be used to make your character learn a new skill or improve on a current one. Thus making the character more your own and less cookie-cutter.

Also, if you have a weapon or wearable that is above your current level (be it from the auction house, guild member, or one of your professions) - it gives you something to push towards using. In GS3/4, after you reach 25, you can use basically every single item in the game.

Yes and no on the levelling adders... in GS you get an extra 4-6 CS, to the spells you already have, but in WoW you normally only get an improved rank of a spell you already know, making it similar to the 4-6 CS. True, there are a couple of new abilities that pop up later on, but for the most part, the rest is more of the same. (disclaimer: I've only played a priest so that's all I know about)

The whole talent thing does make things more interesting though, as you point out. There do seem to be "required" builds of some classes already though, like the holy spec for Priests and the protection spec for warriors.

The item age restriction comment is accurate for sure. Already I'm trying to figure out what wand I want to get once I turn 30 and more options become available. It's been suggested to change the magic metal minimum ages higher in GS a few times, but it doesn't look like that will happen at this point.

[Hulkein]

I don't think any build is required to be viable enough to cap, like in GS.

Sure, if you go holy spec or protection spec you'll get a lot more instance groups, but you can still get to endgame doing almost any spec you feel like.

Level 79...

Everything is isolated about TI.. The fact that the friends I have are about a 30 minute walk away makes it pretty isolating.

Not only that, but OTF is also a chore to get into and hunt. Ugh.. What ever happened to places that were reasonably within range?

- Arkans

[Fallen]

I dont think anyone will argue that the hunting in Gemstone compares to that to the hunting in WoW.

How long does it take for someone to script/ring from behind the barrier to back to the Dais? I doubt it is 30 minutes. I dont think its even 30 from exiting the Rift to getting to Icemule.

Heh, training for a shaman is a treat each time I level. The new talents and the new spells I get make me even deadlier in PvP. This is not even close to being true in GS.

Also, the PvP system is so much better in WoW. It's not a "first one to get a shot wins" at all. Battles can go back and forth with different classes giving you different problems. I like it a lot.

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Fallen
How one compares the roleplay in a graphical RPG to a text based one confuses me.

With text, you can do so much more than with graphics. Your character can express themselves through motions and movements that simply aren't possible beyond the few emotes offered on games such as WoW

Your character cannot be anywhere near as personalized as in a graphic based game. In GS, you can customize each and every article of clothing to exact specifications. Your features, tattoo's, weaponry..everything can be made your own.

In terms of roleplay, how anyone can compare the two forms is beyond me. There are no limits to text, as it uses one's imagination to set the scene, instead of the restrictions placed upon a world that has been already created in polygons and pixels.

Beyond that, you lose the history of a game that has existed for literally decades. Thousands of characters have come and gone, with a few leaving lasting relics and changes upon the world in which we play. Massive events, storylines, and global phenemons have shaped the face of Elanthia time and again. There is no game that can match such a claim.

WoW is a videogame
Elanthia is a world unto itself.

Feeling superior about your text game much?
Eesh...anyone would think that you took it as a personal sleight that anyone could dare suggest that Roleplaying in WoW is anything like that in GS.


role-play (rlpl)
v. role-·played, role-·play·ing, role-·plays
v. tr.

To assume or represent in a drama; act out: “Participants are encouraged to pass on leads about jobs... and to role-play interview situations with each other” (Hatfield MA Valley Advocate).


v. intr.

To assume or act out a particular role: “When I hire people I role-play with them... to see how they take pressure” (Peter Schrag).


n.

Role-playing.



So that kind of suggests to me that the definition of roleplay is acting something out. In which case, the key there would be the skill of the players rather than the scenery.

Now I know you think you are the be-all and end-all of roleplaying in GS fallen, but you know what? I've seen better.

Take Linor, for instance. Fantastic roleplayer. Several characters all very different personalities, all stayed in character regardless. She now plays WoW. OMG!!!! That must mean she is now a shitty roleplayer, or that her roleplay these days isnt as good as it was in Gemstone, right? Wrong.

In wow, there are much fewer automatic emotes, but there is an /emote verb that people can (and do) use to do that roleplay thing.

So people that produced awesome roleplay in GS, can do so in WoW should they choose. The standard of their roleplay is just as good as it would be if they were doing the same thing in GS.

My advice to you would be stop being such a fucking roleplaying snob, and before you want to pass judgement over the standard of roleplaying in WoW, give the game a try. Dont want to? Thats fine and your right...just dont pretend you are an authority on it.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Trouble
Yes and no on the levelling adders... in GS you get an extra 4-6 CS, to the spells you already have, but in WoW you normally only get an improved rank of a spell you already know, making it similar to the 4-6 CS. True, there are a couple of new abilities that pop up later on, but for the most part, the rest is more of the same. (disclaimer: I've only played a priest so that's all I know about)


I think the comparison to 4-6 CS is a bit harsh.

Lets take your priest for example:


Level 1 -
Lesser Heal 1 (46-56 health)
Smite 1 (13-17 damage)
PW: Fortitude 1 (+3 stamina)

Level 4 -
Lesser Heal 2 (71-85 health)
SW: Pain 1 (30 damage)

Level 6 -
Smite 2 (25-31 damage)
PW: Shield 1 (absorb 44)

Level 8 -
Renew 1(heal 45 dam over 15 sec)
Fade 1 (lessen agro)

Level 10 -
Lesser Heal 3 (heal 135 - 157)
Resurrection (raise dead)
Desperate prayer (heal 134-170 instant)
SW:Pain 2 (66 damage)
Mind blast 1 (39-43 damage)
Hex of Weakness 1 (-2 to Damage taken)
Starshards (72 damage over 4 sec)

etc.
etc.

Level 52 -
Greater Heal 3 (heal 1919 to 2147)
Devouring Plague 5 (712 damage that heals you)
Shadowguard 5 (90 damage each time attacked)
Mind Flay 5 (330 damage, 50% speed)
Mind Blast 8 (425-449 damage)


Sure, there's not all kinds of different skills (I haven't gone into talent skills), but look at the jumps in their effectiveness.

Each new healing spell you get increases the health given by 20%+, even at the highest levels. Same with Smite and alot of the other spells.

20% <> 5-6 CS points.

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Fallen
I dont think anyone will argue that the hunting in Gemstone compares to that to the hunting in WoW.

How long does it take for someone to script/ring from behind the barrier to back to the Dais? I doubt it is 30 minutes. I dont think its even 30 from exiting the Rift to getting to Icemule.

He probably means back in WL or IMT/Rift as far as the 30 mins goes.

Getting into and out of OTF it pretty darn fast & easy if you use scripts, although I recognize that not everyone likes to use travel scritpts.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I just bought WoW (and a a video card to play it) and it's a good game. I find different things I like about GS and WoW they aren't the same thing and never will be. Which one will I spend my time on? Not sure. I'm so close to getting to the rift with Anticor in GS and Anticor in WoW is only lvl 10.

I don't like the fact that I know jack shit about WoW. Everywhere I turn I've got stupid questions that make me look like a jack ass, well more so than normal :cool:

Both good games, both different, both look like they will keep me interested. The only downside is I will always be behind because things like church, the gym, etc mean I'm only playing a few hours a week if I'm lucky.

But they reckon it takes 15-18 days of playing (constant) to hit cap. So it really wont be long before you are kicking serious ass.

And its confusing for everyone when they start. You are doing way better than I did when I started. I was lost for about two weeks. As someone said already, just shout someone in the guild. Always some smartarse who knows the answers :whistle:

[Hulkein]

I'll pass down this newb knowledge (that you probably already know), but I didn't find out numlock keeps you running until I was like level 30.

[Nieninque]

And arkans didnt find out the / next to number lock toggles run/walk until he walked into a bunch of rotting ghouls in the WPLs last week :duh:

:lol:

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Nope. Never happened. I do remember Nien breaking the game though. Yep, that's completely true.

- Arkans

[Trouble]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Trouble
Yes and no on the levelling adders... in GS you get an extra 4-6 CS, to the spells you already have, but in WoW you normally only get an improved rank of a spell you already know, making it similar to the 4-6 CS. True, there are a couple of new abilities that pop up later on, but for the most part, the rest is more of the same. (disclaimer: I've only played a priest so that's all I know about)


I think the comparison to 4-6 CS is a bit harsh.

Sure, there's not all kinds of different skills (I haven't gone into talent skills), but look at the jumps in their effectiveness.

Each new healing spell you get increases the health given by 20%+, even at the highest levels. Same with Smite and alot of the other spells.

20% <> 5-6 CS points.

Okay, but you have to take into account that the increase in effectiveness is a necessity because at level 40 (or whatever) players have 10000 (or whatever) health instead of 150, so a rank 1 Lesser Heal spell *needs* to be updated to a rank 3 Greater Heal. It's still just a heal spell. The progression reminds me of the old cleric and empath spell lists, where you had 4 different Prayer of Holdings, for example.

And unintentionally, you brought up a good point about the ability to specialize in WoW. Your examples of Desperate Prayer and Starshards are unavailable to me as an Undead/Horde priest, while I do get Devouring Plague. This adds dimension to otherwise static spell lists.

From looking at the list real quick, the only new geniunely spell I get after level 30 is Levitate (32). There are a couple of talent-specific abilities like Divine Spirit that come later, but other than that, I basically have the same spellist until cap.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
:lol:

I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Nope. Never happened. I do remember Nien breaking the game though. Yep, that's completely true.

- Arkans

Pants on fire.

That was you...just after you walked into the rotting ghouls

Nien, your avatar is what I always imagined Toj was like during that time we completely destroyed Crappy Diem in Ashenvale.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Arkans
Nien, your avatar is what I always imagined Toj was like during that time we completely destroyed Crappy Diem in Ashenvale.

- Arkans

OMFG! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/hysterical.gif

[Fallen]

So people that produced awesome roleplay in GS, can do so in WoW should they choose. The standard of their roleplay is just as good as it would be if they were doing the same thing in GS.

My advice to you would be stop being such a fucking roleplaying snob, and before you want to pass judgement over the standard of roleplaying in WoW, give the game a try. Dont want to? Thats fine and your right...just dont pretend you are an authority on it. >>

Lets hear some of the RP going on in WoW. I am all ears.

[Nieninque]

Well the other day I logged in to one of my characters to see two people roleplaying a random conversation about the history of their races. As good as you would get in GS. All in character and in keeping with the genre of the game.

I know that Linor does much roleplaying on her server with her friends/guild and random people.

Hey, dont just take my word for it, give the game a try.

Prove me wrong and show you are not a pompous RP nazi with an overinflated ego.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Nien, your avatar is what I always imagined Toj was like during that time we completely destroyed Crappy Diem in Ashenvale.

- Arkans

ROFL

[Shari]

....oh how I wish I wasn't at work right now.

I so need to play. :(

[Fallen]

Does it make you feel better about leaving GS by insulting me, Nien? Did our characters ever interact in game? Do you even know my roleplay aside from a few logs posted here?

I am not trying to diss WoW, I am simply pointing out that the level of roleplay to be had cannot really compare with one another.

How many WoW players write detailed backstories for their characters? Tying in elements of the games history and events to legitimize their current actions.

Are there any characters that purposely remain at a low level, or stay in a smaller area of the game due to their attachment to the town/place? Are there anyone who specifically nerfs his or her character to focus on playing an alternative style profession?

Are there alot of people who produce cultural/religious/political documentation for the world of Azeroth?

Are there any types of PanArkati or Bardfest type activities? Where there is no real items or EXP to be gained, but simply players sharing their individual stories and beliefs?

WoW looks to be a great game. The hunting, the questing for new items, the constant PvP and clan wars. All those aspects look to be quite entertaining.

Gemstone 4 is a roleplaying game. It may not be pure and perfect in that regard, but it is moreso than WoW or any other graphical game could hope to be.

I do not say this to insult WoW, or lessen it. I am saying this because it is true.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Fallen
Does it make you feel better about leaving GS by insulting me, Nien? Did our characters ever interact in game? Do you even know my roleplay aside from a few logs posted here?

You think I feel bad about leaving GS?
I left GS because I was bored of it. My insults towards you are merely a reflection of how I view your pompousness.


I am not trying to diss WoW, I am simply pointing out that the level of roleplay to be had cannot really compare with one another.

And like I said. Roleplay is about acting. Purely and simply. People act and roleplay all over. The same skilled RPer can move between forums and remain a skilled RPer...therefore the level of roleplay CAN compare, as this comes down to the RPer rather than the venue.


How many WoW players write detailed backstories for their characters? Tying in elements of the games history and events to legitimize their current actions.

Well, I just mentioned two in my last post that were talking of their history and their races history and their place in it, in character. That was a chance encounter with two people I didnt know, probably wont see again and wouldnt recognise them from Adam if I did. What I will remember is the roleplay between them, which was every bit as good as that which I have seen in GS.


Are there any characters that purposely remain at a low level, or stay in a smaller area of the game due to their attachment to the town/place? Are there anyone who specifically nerfs his or her character to focus on playing an alternative style profession?

Havent looked into it that much, but I cant imagine for one minute that there arent people who do as much of that as they can within the mechanics of the game.


Are there alot of people who produce cultural/religious/political documentation for the world of Azeroth?

Are there any types of PanArkati or Bardfest type activities? Where there is no real items or EXP to be gained, but simply players sharing their individual stories and beliefs?


No Fallen, you are special. No-one can live up to the awesomeness that is you and only those people in the Fallen accredited games ever do anything that equates the certified level of RPing.

WoW looks to be a great game. The hunting, the questing for new items, the constant PvP and clan wars. All those aspects look to be quite entertaining.

Gemstone 4 is a roleplaying game. It may not be pure and perfect in that regard, but it is moreso than WoW or any other graphical game could hope to be.

I do not say this to insult WoW, or lessen it. I am saying this because it is true.

And what I am saying, is that some of the players of WoW are every bit as good as the roleplayers of GS, hey...some of them ARE the RPers of GS.

I dont dispute that a big part (though not all) of GS is RP-based. What I am disputing is that the RP in GS and WoW cannot be compared.

[CrystalTears]

What you can't do in WoW but can in GS, which is why I love WoW, is that you can't fake the game to make you look like or do something that is impossible for your character to do.

Yes, I harp on this constantly, because it irked the shit out of me as a roleplayer. Seeing people fly around on brooms, wag their tail, fly with their angel wings, tell me how to feel with their instruments, say you're really a kobold or that you're the opposite sex... but apparently I'm supposed to suspend my belief and "accept" that it's possible, when all along it's mechanics abuse.

You can't do that, nor should you. But they do. In WoW, you just look dumb trying to emote that you're flying and just standing there, so luckily I've never seen someone do that.

[Edited on 7/18/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Fallen]

No Fallen, you are special. No-one can live up to the awesomeness that is you and only those people in the Fallen accredited games ever do anything that equates the certified level of RPing. >>

As I said, you claim to know me so very well, when in fact all you have are presumptions. I did not participate in any of these activities. There are several that read these boards that did.

The fact remains, GS is centered around roleplay. WoW is not. This is what I was attempting to convey from the beginning. I have done this, and so I will withdraw from this debate.

You are a sad, angry person, Nieninque, and I pity you.

[Nieninque]

I quote: you claim to know me so very well, when in fact all you have are presumptions.

STFU, muppet

[ElanthianSiren]

WoW lets you have undead chicks. Let's not forget that. GS just has the stock fantasy game races and the races that I find annoying.

The living dead girl on their horde page is so yum, I almost opened an account. Seriously, but then I realized it probably wouldn't look as cool/detailed in the game and was sad.

-M

[Drew]

Originally posted by Wezas
Also, if GS3/4 would just create some quests for people to do (even 20-30 person quests to kill a rediculous amount of high level mobs) it would be much more interesting. Doing that but also keeping the long-term quests (GSS for example) might do them good.



These quest/bounties are coming out pretty soon, it seems to be the number 1 priority right now. Also, a level 130 area is coming out that the only way you'll be able to take it down is by working together in groups (this will only really matter to 90+ players though).

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Arkans
Level 79...

Everything is isolated about TI.. The fact that the friends I have are about a 30 minute walk away makes it pretty isolating.

Not only that, but OTF is also a chore to get into and hunt. Ugh.. What ever happened to places that were reasonably within range?

- Arkans

get the sand out of your vagina, arkans.

i get from the dais into otf quicker than the sphere drop in the rift. its not a pain at all

[Artha]

How many WoW players write detailed backstories for their characters? Tying in elements of the games history and events to legitimize their current actions.
Be honest with yourself. How many Gemstone players do this?

[Fallen]

Be honest with yourself. How many Gemstone players do this? >>

It really depends, Artha, with who you choose to associate. I will be the first to admit you have to actively search for roleplay in Elanthia. In every town you enter, you should look to single out and highlight those that take roleplay seriously.

For instance, in Ta'Illistim I will often look for:

Ana, Nauriel, Xandalf, Querthose, Eoghain, Rheisia, Kithus, Amerith, ect.

These are people, who for the most part share my characters interests, and actively roleplay at all times. There are many other characters like Toy, Satira, Celeembira(SP?), Boomsplat who are all good roleplayers, though Evarin holds no common ground.

All of these characters are likely to have detailed backgrounds to their personas. Gemstone is all about who you choose to actively attempt to interact with.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Fallen
It really depends, Artha, with who you choose to associate. I will be the first to admit you have to actively search for roleplay in Elanthia. In every town you enter, you should look to single out and highlight those that take roleplay seriously.


Interesting. That's what people in WoW have been saying. And for a "roleplaying" game, should you really have to single out and highlight those that roleplay to begin with? You don't see a flaw in that type of logic?

I'm with Artha in the sense that I would wager that very few actually go through the time and patience to write out a detailed background. However that doesn't make one a roleplayer. I know plenty of people who roleplayed very well and the GAME fleshed out their character so long as they had just enough background to work with.

You don't have to be a fanatic to be a good roleplayer. Just convincing in your current role.

Personally speaking, I could actually figure out who the people were who "fleshed out" their characters, and they were quite boring because they would go into this detail upon meeting. No stranger I know tears down and tells you their most intimate time in their life when they lost their home and family and were raped into a new society. Sorry, I found those VERY unconvincing and marked THOSE as the ones to not interact with. There are all kinds.

[allen]

Lots of good info for me, thanks folks. One more question. Some may not like it, too bad. Is there a lot of bought characters/items in game? And what would say...a LVL 50 go for. That's the one thing I like about GS, I can buy/sell items/coins/characters with RL cash and make a few bucks on the side.

[Fallen]

Interesting. That's what people in WoW have been saying. And for a "roleplaying" game, should you really have to single out and highlight those that roleplay to begin with? You don't see a flaw in that type of logic? >>

No, I personally don't. I have no desire to make even the attempt to roleplay with people like Warclaidhm, Atreau, Sauvementous, ect. In my opinion, they add nothing to the game.

I do not doubt there are some fine roleplayers in WoW. As I have said before, I do not believe their world goes anywhere near the level of depth to accomadate a roleplaying environment. What interactions I could expect to find would be limited by the design of the Graphical RPG world itself.


<<Personally speaking, I could actually figure out who the people were who "fleshed out" their characters, and they were quite boring because they would go into this detail upon meeting. No stranger I know tears down and tells you their most intimate time in their life when they lost their home and family and were raped into a new society. Sorry, I found those VERY unconvincing and marked THOSE as the ones to not interact with. There are all kinds. >>

I am not really sure what you mean by this. I look for people that stay in character, and actively attempt to roleplay. Those that do often have a backstory for their character. There are, of course, those that do not. I wouldn't look down on someone for not having an eighty page novel devoted to their character's past. However, I would certainly commend those that do.

[CrystalTears]

For my first part, I was just pointing out that in GS, you have to actively seek out and find the roleplayers. For pronouncing that it's such a roleplaying game, it proves itself otherwise on a daily basis. The fact that it has people such as the ones you mention just screams the fact that roleplay is not enforced nor consistant. Just as long as you're not blatently OOC it's okay. Hell sometimes even that isn't dealt with very well.

I look for people that stay in character too. What I was saying is that people who write a detailed background does not mean anything as far as roleplaying goes in the grande scheme of things. I used to run into new characters, young and old, and when saying "Hi, who are you?" would go into detail about their childhood and life history. As a character and also as a real person, I was put off by it. Someone who needs to tell me that much detail when meeting them is a bit wacko for me. But hey, others like that sort of thing, so that's for them to enjoy. It takes all types of roleplayers to be a part of a game like GS.

[Fallen]

For pronouncing that it's such a roleplaying game, it proves itself otherwise on a daily basis. The fact that it has people such as the ones you mention just screams the fact that roleplay is not enforced nor consistant. Just as long as you're not blatently OOC it's okay. Hell sometimes even that isn't dealt with very well. >>

It all boils down to if you will let a few bad eggs spoil your enjoyment of the game. Are people that have absolutely no interest in serious roleplay annoying? Yes, but those types of people are going to exist in any online gaming environment.

The world of gemstone is made to actively encourage roleplay. Nearly all GM interactions revolve around either unique roleplaying events, or the ability to further customize any and all aspect of your character.

Do I believe that there should be a more strict enforcement of Roleplay policy? Absolutely. Do some people believe I am an RP nazi? You bet 'cha. What one person sees as being disruptive, many others see as just having fun.

I have nothing against those that like to duel all day on the boulder, or whatever, or those that have fluff RP and are there mostly to hang out with their friends. As I said, however, I tend to avoid those people.

I look for those who have want to have meaningful interactions. What I would define as one likely varies wildly from what you do. As you said, it takes all kinds of roleplayers.

[Artha]

Lots of good info for me, thanks folks. One more question. Some may not like it, too bad. Is there a lot of bought characters/items in game? And what would say...a LVL 50 go for. That's the one thing I like about GS, I can buy/sell items/coins/characters with RL cash and make a few bucks on the side.
You can sell stuff/characters, but if you get caught, it's getting deleted. Thanks to Chinese farmers, gold goes for about $10 for 100. Not very many high end items are sellable because they are soulbound (can only be sold to vendors and may not be transfered to other characters).


It all boils down to if you will let a few bad eggs spoil your enjoyment of the game.
Every single multiplayer game is like this. It's possible and even likely you'll find RP in WoW. I've found that on the Argent Dawn server (one of the RP ones), if you roleplay, others will follow.

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Artha]

[allen]

Damn that sucks, so I guess Ebay is out of the question then eh

[Artha]

See for yourself (http://search.ebay.com/World-of-Warcraft_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8).

There's a level 60 priest for 250, 60 hunter for 250, 60 mage for 280, and a bunch of accounts that seem to have low MBs. I'm not sure how many of these accounts will survive, though.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The living dead girl on their horde page is so yum, I almost opened an account. Seriously, but then I realized it probably wouldn't look as cool/detailed in the game and was sad.

-M

I made one on a RP server one day when Argent Dawn was down

Character Screen:

http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/blinks1.jpg

In Game Shot:

http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/blinks2.jpg

The character has a mismatch of gear that I've found when questing. There's plenty more looks.