question about a GM since people here know them by first names

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by The Cat In The Hat
Knowing Paul,

He's a damned good GM, and I've never seen or heard of him selling things he gained as a GM for cash. He's gotten to where he is through hard work and honestly he's responsible for probably 75% or more of the things that make the game fun.

I just don't see the point of bashing GM's, especially the ones that make the biggest differance in the game.



what 75 percent of the game did Paul do again?

[Bobmuhthol]

The quoted post is pretty dumb.

[GSTamral]

Well, I don't know about 75%, but Paul's done plenty. He coordinated a lot of plat events, and he's doing much the same with premium.

He's a nice person in general too. As for his participation in sales of items for cash, I've never known him to. I know he traded many a thing that quickly found its way into cash sales, but he's not exactly in need of money.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Hmm, well considering he creates the majority of the items that find their way into the game these days. He puts massive amounts of time into events, invasions and every aspect of the game.

And YES, I know him, since you decided to single that statement out and make it the subject of a post. What a fucking terrible thing to happen, that someone is friends with another human being. Or is he not allowed to have friends now?

Has he ever done any favors for me in game? NO, have I ever asked? NO

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Hmm, well considering he creates the majority of the items that find their way into the game these days.>>

I'm interested in how anyone could know this without being affiliated with the affairs of GemStone coding teams.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Try reading the official boards, please. It's no secret after the fact what he's created.

[Bobmuhthol]

I didn't say that what he's made is a secret. Try reading my post, please. It is a secret what every GM is up to, what they have written, and the status of their work with respect to availability in the game; unless, of course, you have access to their individual source codes.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I didn't say that what he's made is a secret. Try reading my post, please. It is a secret what every GM is up to, what they have written, and the status of their work with respect to availability in the game; unless, of course, you have access to their individual source codes.

or go to lunch with them like the player of Celtar and Stealth use to do all the time to find out what is going on.

[The Cat In The Hat]

...

No, you're just digging too deep. Because I read means I must have access to source codes? Please...

GM's post on the officials and claim responsibility for what they have done and anyone that reads them knows exactly who created what, for the most part.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Because I read means I must have access to source codes? Please...>>

I'm not so sure you can read; at least, your reading comprehension is subpar. How many times do I have to say the same thing with different words?

<<GM's post on the officials and claim responsibility for what they have done and anyone that reads them knows exactly who created what, for the most part.>>

I must have forgotten that if an item is put into the game it has to be documented by the GM who wrote it. A single GM may post the most saying, "I made this item!" but that doesn't mean anything in the way of what's actually being put into the game.

Basically, you can't say that a particular GM is adding most of the items to the game (was he even hired as a coder?) just because you saw a lot of his posts saying he added items.

[Parkbandit]

What the fuck??

What is it that you have against Khaladon, Toj? You seem to be lashing out JUST to lash out... which makes you a pathetic little fuck in my book.

Fuck off already.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Well, if there's one thing I've learned here on these boards is not to argue with you Bob, because you're always right and nobody can ever tell you different.

And I can read just fine. I answered your question.

It's Bob's world, we just exist in it.

[Latrinsorm]

Khaladon is primarily a CE GM, isn't he? How could he possibly be responsible for any appreciable portion of itemage?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<And I can read just fine. I answered your question.>>

You did answer my question. I'm telling you that you answered it poorly, and have nothing but a GM's public documentation of his own items to back it up. Without being affiliated with Simutronics, you simply can not know what you're trying to pass off as fact. I appreciate your acknowledgement that I'm always right, though. Nobody can tell me different because I'm not wrong here.

Your ability to not be a fucking idiot is lacking, however. That post clearly shows it. My advice: grow up.

[The Cat In The Hat]

You should take your own advice on occasion. Can you do anything but insult people?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
What the fuck??

What is it that you have against Khaladon, Toj? You seem to be lashing out JUST to lash out... which makes you a pathetic little fuck in my book.

Fuck off already.

yet you read a thread this pathetic little fuck created just to tell me to fuck off.

who is more pathetic?


Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Per the ACTUAL topic:


I agree he is a GM

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You should take your own advice on occasion. Can you do anything but insult people?>>

Yeah, I can make very valid posts, which I had done throughout this thread until you decided to push the limits.

Exhibit A:

Try reading the official boards, please. It's no secret after the fact what he's created.
Exhibit B:

No, you're just digging too deep. Because I read means I must have access to source codes? Please...
Exhibit C:

Well, if there's one thing I've learned here on these boards is not to argue with you Bob, because you're always right and nobody can ever tell you different.

And I can read just fine. I answered your question.

It's Bob's world, we just exist in it.

After putting up with this, here are my infractions:

Your ability to not be a fucking idiot is lacking, however. That post clearly shows it. My advice: grow up.

I sincerely hope you're not serious. That would be sad.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Um... ok Bob, whatever. I'm done with you now.

[peam]

Bob, detract the claws.

[Bobmuhthol]

Originally posted by The Cat In The Hat
Um... ok Bob, whatever. I'm done with you now.

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
My advice: grow up.

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Khaladon is primarily a CE GM, isn't he? How could he possibly be responsible for any appreciable portion of itemage?

He's an SGM over Upsells. Premium and Plat. By items I think she means like the black and white ora weapons, weapon making bandoliers, shadowdeath weapons (I think that's what they were), e bows and such from the WD, the snakes on the weapons from EG, the skulls that lock and the like. He makes some of the nice items that get raffled/auctioned off etc.

They sure beat the tired old silvery dust and arkati symbols that Ravias has been raffling for years. :lol:

[SpunGirl]

Regardless of anything else, Paul impresses me as someone who cares a lot about GemStone and the future of the game. He's a good GM and I think he spends a big portion of his time trying to think up fun stuff for players, new items, etc. As far as I know, he worked very hard on WD items.

As far as him taking credit for items post-release on the officials, I think that's pretty valid. I can't imagine that some other GM would have created them, put in the work for them, and then allowed him to just take credit and get all the attention (which he loves). Every once in awhile you'll see an item that was thought up by a particular GM and they'll state "so-and-so was nice enough to code this for me." I'm think Paul can do his own coding, however.

Wtf does this have to do with first names?

-K

[Bobmuhthol]

<<As far as him taking credit for items post-release on the officials, I think that's pretty valid. I can't imagine that some other GM would have created them, put in the work for them, and then allowed him to just take credit and get all the attention (which he loves).>>

This is the first mention of him taking credit for someone else.

[StrayRogue]

Khal didn't do the shadowdeath stuff.

[Makkah]

This thread is fucking retarded. You should all do something productive... like drink a gallon of bleach and burp the national anthem.

[kookiegod]

In general, I don't reply to these message boards since they are not official, nor in any way affilliated with GemStone IV, Simutronics, or anything else that is remotely related.

Frankly, I'm gratified that so many of you post here. I'm glad you like what we as a group create and invent and make hopefully you have a good time. I think we have some amazing people working for us, from the Development gurus, the World team, my Upsells team, Events (god love Carraig and crew for the WaveDancer), and the training team.

However, this concern over my personal life and outing my PCs, and such, is a bit much don't you think? The people who know me, know me better. You are welcome to cast stones for sure, as I don't live in a glass house. :)

I'm not going to address any criticisms over the other thread either. If you feel you have a valid issue, I definitely encourage you to submit it to my boss at Simu-Llearyn@play.net. You can even copy me at gs4-khaladon@play.net. I'd really like to see them and will reply.

Enjoy your Sunday, its 85 plus, sunny and wonderful. I'm truly happy to be alive on a day like this.

~Khaladon

All your cookies are belong to us.

[Stealth]

Just because a GM is CE or DEV does not mean they cannot work on other projects. For example: I started out as DEV and got certified to do CE stuff, liked it and transferred, Modrian is a "CE" GM but is one of the best coders we have, Krilcan was CE and was a great coder, suffice to say that if a GM wants to cross train, it's allowable.

I think people are being far too black and white on issues regarding GM information and GM involvement in the cash sales area.

Not all information that GMs have is "secret". So some of it can be revealed, some of it can't be without breaking our NDA. Telling who made an item is generally allowable if the GM ok's it. Telling the code of how the item was made is not. Essentially the point is that there is no black and white with revealing the info. Ie, not all knowledge is taboo to talk about, and some knowledge is ok to talk about just not in details.

As far as the item sales go, I don't know any current staff members who have ever sold or bought items for cash. I know some have in the past and are no longer on staff. There is not alot you can really do in a limited item environment to distance yourself from it totally. The only way to stop staff from ever "touching" an item that was once sold or bought for cash would be to have staff not play, which is a HUGE mistake IMO. When you do this, they lose touch with the game.


Stealth

[Bobmuhthol]

Why am I seeing Khaladon's post 4 times? :'(

[Ardwen]

quadruple vision!

Ardwen

[Drew]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Why am I seeing Khaladon's post 4 times? :'(


He's abusing his GM powers, AS ALWAYS!!!!!!!

[StrayRogue]

Nice to hear from you Stealth. What GM's do with the power they're given is their own buisness. I'm sure that there are controls in place to stop them totally abusing it, such as I doubt they can create 100 million coins for one of their PC's to sell on eBay. I could be wrong but I don't know. Indeed what the players were prior to becoming GM's generally doesn't bother me. Even when they've made some really poor choices (such as Joter/Quabu for host) you have to admit they must have wowed them in some respect. The same applies to GMs too, though I'm still in the belief that by knowing someone on the inside does nothing but grease the wheels in regards to getting you a job there.

[SpunGirl]

Er, you're right Bob. I re-read and I thought you were inferring something you weren't.

I'd say that the arbitrary figure of "75% of cool stuff" has no basis, but I'd go with saying that Khaladon has contributed "a lot" of cool stuff to the game. Fair?

And Stray - last I heard, Quabu was no longer a host.

-K

[StrayRogue]

Kristin has officially made my day. Unless he, and I pray to God he hasn't, been promoted to GMness.

[Drew]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Kristin has officially made my day. Unless he, and I pray to God he hasn't, been promoted to GMness.

Seconded.

[HouseofElves]

And thirded.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Hmm, well considering he creates the majority of the items that find their way into the game these days.>>

I'm interested in how anyone could know this without being affiliated with the affairs of GemStone coding teams.

What I know (from word of mouth of the GM's I talk to) is that Paul does ALOT of the coding because other GM's do not have the know-how ... Paul tends to help everyone that is creating items, because in my minds eye with the info I have been given, because he is a TEAM player ...

Because there is SOoo much to this game I personally would not say 75%, but I would definetly say one whole helluva lot.

Personally, I say, try getting to know the gm's... they are people too, and enjoy relationships with us, as much as we enjoy relationships with them. Not to mention that getting to know them helps separate that mean assed merchant from the player behind the scenes.

:shrug:

Have a good day, and TOJ ... a small side note ... I have seen you all over the place the last few days ... maybe you should take a step back ... take a breath ... relax.

Have a great day ALL!

Finis

[Gan]

I've had nothing but positive interactions with GM Khaladon. Its obvious he has alot invested in GSIV, both personally and professionally, and it shows. This doesnt mean all the GM's are rosey, but if more were like Khal and Stealth then we'd have tons more fun than we have now.

I also find it very interesting that both dropped by to say hello. Kudos for them recognizing the authoritative PC. There is no substitute.

[HarmNone]

Thanks to Khaladon and Stealth for stopping by and sharing your viewpoints with us. More often than not, hearing a word or two from the proverbial horse's mouth serves well to quell the rumors that tend to grow so rapidly when those who know just a little share with those that know just a little less.

Thanks, guys. It's always a pleasure to hear from you. :)

[Bobmuhthol]

Khaladon says, "Well, I think it goes without saying."
>
Khaladon says, "Anything posted on the Players Corner is suspect, useless at best, outright lies at worst."

[OreoElf]

While I have no doubt that Khaladon cares about gemstone in his own way... I do not think he should really be the one to deal with "customers". I've found unless you're of the same opinion as him, he really doesn't seem to care about your complaints... of course not all complaints are valid... Maybe years of working in customer service has made me hard on people that don't have good customer service skills. Just MO... the coding and other work he does is wonderful I'm sure.

:shrug:

[Doughboy]

Fuck Cookies! Yeah

[Alarke]

Every interaction i've had with Khaladon, whether PR or in game roleplay has been phenominal. I don't think he has poor customer service skills by any means, and always makes my day a bit better with the little crap he pulls.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Alarke
Every interaction i've had with Khaladon, whether PR or in game roleplay has been phenominal. I don't think he has poor customer service skills by any means, and always makes my day a bit better with the little crap he pulls.

You mean like getting raped by Khaladon lightning bolts because I jacked ONE cookie from his GM area?! Just one! And I eat lightning bolts all the time for it :(

Down with the man! Rawr! :P

[OreoElf]

I think there's a point which he abuses his power... We pay for the game... he takes it too far sometimes... You shouldn't have mysterious deaths for ooc conversations with gms IMO... but its their power to use and abuse... I think most people that have a bone to pick with Khal are too afraid to say anything because a lot of the popular crowd adores him... His merchant services are fine... his referral and gm customer service is what I see lacking.

[Flurbins]

Here's how I see Khaladon:

Post: Suchandsuch a problem exists in gemstone, anything that can be done about it?

Khaladon reply: We're not going to try to fix it or care about it in prime, so come to plat where we actually care about customers.

Of course, I've never interacted with him either in direct posts, in character, or in GM requests, that's just how he comes across to me on the official boards.

[kookiegod]

Well, a few more posts before i sign off again for years, heh, i think I last posted before this, 3 years ago or so.

>Khaladon reply: We're not going to try to fix it or care about it in prime, so come to plat where we actually care about customers.

Do remember, I'm a CE SGM, I can't change most mechanics at all. Platinum is my home for sure, and I love our players, but the same mechanics exist in both games.

OreoElf wrote, " think there's a point which he abuses his power... We pay for the game... he takes it too far sometimes... You shouldn't have mysterious deaths for ooc conversations with gms IMO... but its their power to use and abuse... I think most people that have a bone to pick with Khal are too afraid to say anything because a lot of the popular crowd adores him... His merchant services are fine... his referral and gm customer service is what I see lacking."

I doubt anyone is afraid to post who posts on these boards. If you want to vent on me, have at it. While I wear my heart on my sleeve (as every single plat player will attest too), i encourage you to post. You, the players, are why we are here.

Do I kill people? Yap. I kinda think the people who get it, know its coming. I think it what makes GemStone better than the average game too. People who know each other, players, GMs, onsite staff.

As far as the rest, I really cannot comment.

Enjoy!

~Khal

Yeah, he kills people, but only in the most amusing ways. Kinda sucks that you spend all your time in Plat, I enjoyed the run ins we had in prime Khaladon, The Edine on the other hand... didn't enjoy them so much.


Edit: But come on a Beautification tax!

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by Dave]

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by kookiegod
I think it what makes GemStone better than the average game too. People who know each other, players, GMs, onsite staff.



I agree with this. GemStone would not enjoy the success it has if the players/staff (and players who all become staff, of course) had not forged such a myriad of tight bonds.

-K

[Miss X]

Yep yep, I very much agree with that sentiment also. You really don't have to justify yourself or your actions in this situation Khal, I think you have set most people straight.

It's nice to see you post here though, we're really not as bad as some people like to make out.

[Nieninque]

I think a lot of the anti-khal/anti-GM sentiment stems from the same kinda mentality as people that dont like their lecturers or their boss simply because they are in a position of authority.

Pretty fucking lame really.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Miss X

It's nice to see you post here though, we're really not as bad as some people like to make out.

agreed more Simu should post here.

and some of us are worse than some like to make out

[Parkbandit]

Toj's pissed because Stealth and Khaladon choose Horde over Alliance.

:sniffle:

[Asha]

Christ!
I haven't read this thread before now, but man..
I need a few bucks ::ping:: I have one hundred million silvers to sell on E-bay.

That, about sums up the madness that is GS.

[HarmNone]

Simu staff used to post here. It's nice to see them coming back, since many of our posters still play and can both enjoy, and benefit from, their posts.

Unfortunately, in the past there were some pretty nasty incidents that occurred here. I hope we can live down the bad taste those incidents left in the mouths of some Simu staff and begin to share with them the good and the not so good of GemStone. To me, their presence here offers something to both sides. We can share with them what we feel about the game, including ideas we might have. They can share with us in the same way. I can't see how that would be a bad thing. :)

[Asha]

I want to hear them swear and curse.
Plus I like having posters who pwne the mods.

:sleep:

[HarmNone]

Well, dayum, Drayal! Did I get pwned and miss it? Oh, snap! :D

[Asha]

It's just , if I hear the words ''I , as a supermoderator'' one more time, I swear I'll have to stop posting here.
I really need the Simu staff to swear on these boards though, Imagine the pent up rage they must have from all the fuck up customers.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I imagine, if they were filled with pent up rage, they wouldn't stay in the job very long. They've gotta have pretty thick skins or they couldn't last doing what they do.

I'd like to see them post more, as well. They're fun people, and many here know them pretty well. Yet, I can understand why they would be reluctant. It's pretty hard to be a GM who wants to enjoy playing the game once in awhile, as an unknown character, but can't do so because people keep "outing" the character played by said GM. You know what that's going to bring...a bunch of idiots whispering "I know you're GM XXXXX, so why not make me this uber doomsday weapon, eh? I won't tell a soul. Honest!"
:rolleyes:

Personally, I'd rather be boiled in oil than have to deal with that crap. I don't blame them for staying away from people who would do that sort of thing to them. If I were Khaladon, or Stealth, or any of the other GMs and staff, I'd like to be able to enjoy the game now and then as just an anonymous character. Wouldn't you?

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by HarmNone]

[Asha]

I agree.
But would you really rather be boiled in oil?
:no:

[HarmNone]

Than put up with some of the people I remember from when I played? Believe me, I can't imagine that being boiled in oil would be much worse than having to put up with those idiots following me around, whispering to me constantly, and trying to get something for nothing. Boiled in oil sounds better the more I think about that other alternative. :scared:

[Asha]

I had no Idea you were a GM.
You're such a catch!!
:kiss:

I'll take incred crit pad on my doubles.

[HarmNone]

Heh. Not a GM by any means. Just a player. Now, if we realize that I was THAT put off as just a player, imagine how I would have felt as a GM....

Khaladon kills people? Heh. Khaladon's a pussy cat compared to what this ol' broad would have been, had she had the power. :D

[Asha]

:lol:
I dread to think.
:scared2:

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heh. Not a GM by any means. Just a player. Now, if we realize that I was THAT put off as just a player, imagine how I would have felt as a GM....

Khaladon kills people? Heh. Khaladon's a pussy cat compared to what this ol' broad would have been, had she had the power. :D

Yea, nothing like being rapped on the head by an ol' hag with a cane! :saint:

[Asha]

That's my wife, Tie-boy.
:stfu:

[ElanthianSiren]

Claiming that every GS player has oppositional defiant disorder seems a bit over-simplified to me. Actually, I think much of the resentment on part of the players has stemmed from many things:

1. There once was corruptive abuse of GM power. This goes back to the whole GM Wolv/Dart saga. From what I've heard and seen though, that's been curtailed since around 1999? ish? -Around the move to the web. Most things you see now, are more just misunderstandings, or at worst, disfavouritism.

Case in point, when Edgeleaf bought that Ebladeable +20 lance or whatever it was and was all miffed because Kyalia took it from him and made it no longer +20.

There was a misunderstanding, error, that required that to happen for game balance reasons. There are a lot of these, but in general, I don't think they are the result of intentional malice or corruption on the part of staff. At worst, they may stem from people trying to do too much or not fully investigating a situation given their abilities, which seems a much different matter all together to me.


2. Occasionally it happens that someone who does not work CE posts or acts in a manner not befitting of SIMU staff. Case in point:

in 2000, upon hearing all the proposed changes for GS -- GP etc, a lot of people asked to be allowed to reallocate.

GM Despil said, "Reallocate? Reroll!" and proceeded to defend his words in a manner that was more infuriating to the posters on the board at the time who were already offended. It just seems not wise to tell people who are as dedicated and attached to their characters as GS'ers, "ha ha reroll!" unless you're joking or looking to become a lightning rod.

I think that ended with a few CE GMs coming in and smoothing things over, but it is very easy to take offense if you can't hear someone is joking or see their expression; it's even easier when they refuse to apologize and continue pushing the issue.

3. The secretiveness of SIMU. People, in general, don't appreciate being half invested in a dear commodity. Most people want to find out everything and know everything about something/someone they're very interested in. It's just American.

There is also the fact that more americans are investigating investment. More than ever, people now can evaluate companies and view how they have held or not upheld their policies in the past (via board meetings etc). Your character, at the very least, is an investment of your time, but SIMU's own guidelines don't allow for anything inspection by its proposed clientelle.

It alienates people and makes them feel as though they are not only voiceless but also in the dark about the company itself. At worst, people assume the worst conditions are at hand due to closed policies like this.


Now, all that said, I've never had a problem with Khaladon. In fact, I remember very fondly a tattooist he ran where, upon realizing some punctuation and grammatical errors, he stayed up several hours extra to fix them. By this time, it was already about 6 am, and he'd tattooed about 20 individuals in Zul Logoth.

You can not like Khal or Stealth or any GM really. Further, if you don't like them, you can request to see another GM. That's your right as a customer or someone attempting to evaluate SIMU's behavior to perhaps become a long term customer.

However I think it's important when you launch an attack to have something of a little more substance than: "I don't like Khaladon! He is r mean!" "I don't like Khaladon! He's met people at Simucon! They know his name!!!!!!oneoneone!" "I don't like Khaladon! His cookie jokes are lame!!!" Evaluate the GM's performance. Look at what he or she has done for the game, as a whole, and draw your conclusions.


-M

[Asha]

Forget it.
Not a very nice thing to say after such a huge effort put into a post.


Original post deleted.

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by Drayal]

[HouseofElves]

I actually like it better when GMs don't come here and defend themselves for whatever reason. In my eyes it makes them appear like they aren't on the defensive and don't have to counter some random negative point. I do enjoy when they have something encouraging to say or to even just say hi, but it seems kind of lame to try and clear the air. People are going to believe what they believe and have their opinions regardless. Just my point of view, tho.

[Latrinsorm]

The only thing I have against Khaladon is the OOCness. He's a nice guy and all, but OOCness in a GM position isn't tolerable.

[Parkbandit]

Khaladon and Stealth were some of my favorite GMs and don't deserve this bullshit from someone who has nothing to back up any claims of wrong doing.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
I actually like it better when GMs don't come here and defend themselves for whatever reason. In my eyes it makes them appear like they aren't on the defensive and don't have to counter some random negative point. I do enjoy when they have something encouraging to say or to even just say hi, but it seems kind of lame to try and clear the air. People are going to believe what they believe and have their opinions regardless. Just my point of view, tho.

Even GMs are human, and it's not because they have/need to defend themselves, it just may come to the point of enough is enough and feel they HAVE to say something at this point.

I hardly ever viewed Khaladon as someone who felt the need to defend himself, especially from someone who knows nothing about him except from speculation or second hand knowledge. He's the sweetest guy in the world and I'm rather biased cause I look forward to New Years and seeing him every year. :D

[Stealth]

<<The only thing I have against Khaladon is the OOCness. He's a nice guy and all, but OOCness in a GM position isn't tolerable>>


GMs are inherently OOC, read your POLICY..;)


Stealth

[Latrinsorm]

There's a GM being inherently OOC, then there's...

>The squirrel wanders over to Ardwen and then looking carefully back and forth, chitters rapidly and gestures expressively something to the effect that his precious is missing. The squirrel scampers up the tree, shaking his head in disgust.

[SpunGirl]

LOL, that's pretty funny.

-K

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Stealth

GMs are inherently OOC, read your POLICY..;)


Stealth

Some are down right cute too. :heart:

[SpunGirl]

Back off, he's mine.

-K

[Gan]

Stealth is right though. Just by nature, GM's are OOC because of the role that they play in the lands.

Requiring a GM or GH to be IC constantly would be like requiring a referree to be an active particpant in a football game. (Man that analagy sucks)...

Those that split hairs over a GM's behavior while he's performing his job duties/functions need to lighten up. Sit back, take 3 deep breaths, and say "Its only a game" ten times with their eyes closed (while not afk scripting).

[Latrinsorm]

Even giving y'all the premise that GMs have to be OOC, it does not stand to reason that GMs can be as OOC as they want whenever they want.

A squirrel mimic of Gollum is no worse than this happening in TSC:

Khaladon says, "Yeah, TNA/NWA is clearly better than the WWE, but they just don't have the backing to be competitive. :( Pro wrestling really sucks now."

[The Cat In The Hat]

Sure that wasn't an oops?

We've all made our share of mistakes when we meant to whisper or even meant to type in an IM and were sleepy. It happens.

[Skirmisher]

Yeah, it does happen I agree.

That is why I feel GM's should never be "visible" or be "heard" in GS.

I think that when responding to a report or the like, they should be invisible and either do a whisper or a send to the player in question and have them move to another room if at all possible and then the player can be pulled to a lounge to speak.

Their jobs require them to be ooc often, and so while i feel they should not be ctiticized for being ooc, I also think they should not "be" a part of Elanthia but exist outside.

[HarmNone]

Heh. Yeah, Cat, I'd agree. That looks like something that was either supposed to be whispered, or supposed to be said on a backnet somewhere. :lol:

[Gan]

Now a really cool feature is if they could specificly designate who they would be visible to, and it would make the person they were talking to look like they were talking to 'nobody'.
:lol:

Kind of like an angel thats only visible to the person they are talking to (as protrayed on TV).

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by The Cat In The Hat
Sure that wasn't an oops?The SAY didn't happen, it was a hypothetical example given to illustrate that OOC is bad (which I wouldn't have thought I would have to do). The squirrel thing did happen, and I don't think it's possible for a GM to accidentally have something happen in GS.

[Landrion]

The squirrel thing was a good joke. Not tolerating a single sentence satire is just a little too uptight. Especially from a game where its apparently acceptable for god knows how many players to name themselves a slight misspelling of Legolas. Precious indeed.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't believe the game is beyond hope, though I realize there are many things wrong with it. I do believe that any change must start from the top. Perpetuating the status quo is not an acceptable reason for damaging the game environment (or anything else, for that matter). It is not that difficult to create an event that is not OOC. I know this is true, because there was at least one other event in that scenario that was both IC and amusing.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by The Cat In The Hat
Sure that wasn't an oops?The SAY didn't happen, it was a hypothetical example given to illustrate that OOC is bad (which I wouldn't have thought I would have to do). The squirrel thing did happen, and I don't think it's possible for a GM to accidentally have something happen in GS.

The way it was written looked like it did happen. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Jenn

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
There's a GM being inherently OOC, then there's...

>The squirrel wanders over to Ardwen and then looking carefully back and forth, chitters rapidly and gestures expressively something to the effect that his precious is missing. The squirrel scampers up the tree, shaking his head in disgust.

that was not a GM, its a random thing that happens to random people. they will also throw acorns at people from the tree from time to time

[Some Rogue]

But a GM had to code it.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by hectomaner
that was not a GM, its a random thing that happens to random people. they will also throw acorns at people from the tree from time to time I've brought an empath from level 5 to level 31 solely through healing in TSC, and I've never once seen that message before.

edit:
Originally posted by Cat in the Hat
Sorry for the misunderstanding.No worries. :heart:

[Edited on 7-13-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Some Rogue
But a GM had to code it.

as Jorge would say, ...


thats like seeing a script on an item go off, and saying OH LOOK!!! IT'S A GM MESSING WITH HIM!!!111ONEONEONE

[Edited on 7-13-2005 by hectomaner]

[Some Rogue]

No, it's saying things may be a random script but at some point in time, a GM had to make it.

[HarmNone]

As I see it, the GMs (and hosts, for that matter) are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Personally, I'd rather never see anything in the game that breaks the medieval mood. However, the game has never been that way. Staff has always been considered OOC by nature.

It's been suggested that all interface between staff and players that isn't involving an event, or something of that nature, take place away from the view of other players. While that's not a bad idea, you'd still have those players who would complain about being taken out of the game for the purpose of speaking to staff. :shrug:

[Latrinsorm]

Again, I'm not saying (right now) that GMs should *never* be OOC. I'm saying that they should not go out of their way to create more OOC situations than necessary, because OOC is Bad, and less Bad is better than more Bad.

[HarmNone]

With that, I'll agree Latrinsorm. There's no reason to purposefully make something OOC that could, with just a bit of thought and effort, remain pertinent to the game environment.

[Fengus]

This is why any GM involvement in a thread or forum completely invalidates any useful discussion.

I'm sure there are many more such posts but I ain't gonna go past page 2.



Originally posted by Miss X
You really don't have to justify yourself or your actions in this situation Khal, I think you have set most people straight.

It's nice to see you post here though, we're really not as bad as some people like to make out.


Now pull your nose outta his ass.

[Artha]

Quit fighting the power, Che.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Fengus
This is why any GM involvement in a thread or forum completely invalidates any useful discussion.

I'm sure there are many more such posts but I ain't gonna go past page 2.



Originally posted by Miss X
You really don't have to justify yourself or your actions in this situation Khal, I think you have set most people straight.

It's nice to see you post here though, we're really not as bad as some people like to make out.


Now pull your nose outta his ass.

....

I don't even know him, I was just giving my opinion. I should have realised that some idiot would make a comment like that. Very funny, clever and original. Congrats...


Loser.

[Fallen]

Should the player not wish to have his character moved to another room, then the GM should remain invisible. A separate channel of communication be used that should not be heard by anyone else.

GMs assist players when they are attempting to fix something that could not be handled in an IC manner. They do a good job of it, in my opinion. However, they should do this job away from all the other characters of Elanthia.

[Caramia]

...or go to lunch with them like the player of Celtar and Stealth use to do all the time to find out what is going on.

That's pretty funny since they Celtar's been posting in the Seattle-area official boards for years and Stealth is living somewhere in the east before he shipped out. So when were they getting together for lunch all the time?

[Edaarin]

During their lunch hours of course.

Man are you dense...

[Caramia]

Thanks for explaining that so well, Edaarin. I had no idea we could now trans-continentally travel to physically have lunch together, with the blink of an eye and just by wishing it was true. Pardon my ignorance of the recent develops in evolution.

Is that the small of your back pierced?

[Artha]

I'm going to go with Edaarin being sarcastic.

[SpunGirl]

Which is usually the case.

-K

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I'm thinking that's a navel. Though I don't recall Caramia ever claiming her avatar was HER.

-K

The elbows are going the wrong way, that's a back :)

[Asha]

Not elbows. They're either side of an unzipped jacket front.
Heh, bet she didn't expect her avatar to baffle people. More like an attempt to charm.

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Drayal]

[HarmNone]

I don't think those are elbows...but, I could be wrong. :shrug:

[Brattt8525]

That is most definitely a belly button piercing not a back one.

[Nieninque]

OMG THAT LADY HAS BOOBIES ON HER BACK

I don't see any boobies

[Brattt8525]

Look up by her hair RangerD they may not be huge but they are there!

[Terminator X]

back boobies would be sooo cool

[ElanthianSiren]

:offtopic: I swear a nuke could go off and men would find an excuse to talk about boobs.

Anyway, I agree with Ganalon or Lantri, forget which one posted it.

Any staff in GS has to lead by example IMO. The position of staffing is just too revered by the community to require anything less from them. Further, and finally, I don't see anything wrong with pulling every customer to consult: 1. if you requested the presence of a GM, you requested it. 2. if you broke the rules of the game, you deserve it. 3. if you didn't break the rules of the game, the consult lounge is a much quieter/better place to explain your actions and how they are not against policy imo.

GMs should be unseen and unheard. Hehehe.

-M

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
:offtopic: I swear a nuke could go off and men would find an excuse to talk about boobs.-M

Oh come on...

Just admit that you have a "Boobies" fetish too.

Join the dark side! :devilsmile:

[SpunGirl]

She's wearing like a hoodie with a sports bra. Hair hanging down.

-K

[Caramia]

Spun wins, all you wrong-guessers need to go back and take Anatomy 101.