old complaint that I got reminded of

[theotherjohn]

Uska a couple years ago released a handful of bows at Anfelt and one at Ciston's auction to benefit the troops. I think the total is 6 of them. They are 0x weapons (which is really bad for DS for archers), and the enchant is based on level, with only rangers able to get past 5x.


thanks again for the reminder that Simu has always approved cash sales and it's GMs have always made items for others

[Jolena]

Oh yeah, let's talk shit about the GM's allowing a bow to be auctioned off for cash to benefit the troops. :barf:

[Kitsun]

The bow was made for the auction. The silvers were distributed among the troops.

He didn't get anything except have his name go along with it.

He didn't get to keep the bow or the silvers. Whats the biggie?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Jolena
Oh yeah, let's talk shit about the GM's allowing a bow to be auctioned off for cash to benefit the troops. :barf:


cash to benefit the troops?

Im sorry did you mean to say the cash was used to pay Simu so soldiers could play their games

[Jolena]

you think it's not a benefit to the troops to be able to have recreational game play? I'm sure the ones who recieved it were grateful. It's awfully lame of you to use that as an example of something SIMU has done wrong. I'm sure you have a plethora of other things you can bitch about with SIMU without using the auction for the troops, TOJ.

[Skirmisher]

Um, for free then....

The end result is us troops received something for free while ciston received nothing from that particular sale.

Your complaint is without merit.

[Edited on 7-9-2005 by Skirmisher]

[StrayRogue]

Um, no. These items were made so that they could be sold. Every single serving member of GS who was there was given by Ciston 5 million coins and were the special auctioneers. The GMs were kind enough to release a few high end stuff into the game to help fund this. Jesus what a bitter prick.

[Edited on 9-7-05 by StrayRogue]

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Um, no. These items were made so that they could be sold. Every single serving member of GS who was there was given by Ciston 5 million coins. The GMs were kind enough to release a few high end stuff into the game to help fund this. Jesus what a bitter prick.


Ciston wrote articles about all the money he made off GS.

not only did Simu do nothing but encouraged it.

Just like now Simu does nothing when GMs characters sale items for cash

[Miss X]

You know what? We really do not need another pointless thread turning into a battle. You can argue via U2U, so either discuss the issue that this thread is actually about or sit on your fingers.

[Edited on 9-7-05 by Miss X]

[StrayRogue]

And this has what to do with Ciston giving a few hundred million silver away? I don't see you whining about yourself being one of the bigger character sale whores. Selling characters is far more damaging to the game than just items. There is nothing in the policy about selling items for cash. Its just not allowed on the official boards or over the amulet. So stop fucking whining.

[Brattt8525]

I don't know about this particular incident but I do know that my kids dad got silvers, it was either 5 or 10 million I can't remember.

He was quite surprised when he got back from Iraq and was millions richer, he thought it was nice of Simu.

[Miss X]

Enough. Ive already asked once nicely.

[ElanthianSiren]

Mmmm, what's so bad about an auction to benefit the troops though, is really what folks here are asking. There is no reason to get inflamed over a simply inquiry.

Simu donated a few items.
Ardwen, Ciston, Sergey, SP, and other merchants donated the multitude of them.

Nobody, aside from the intended troops and the people who got a few very very good items at stellar prices, profitted. Are you upset more by the fact that there was an auction, that you missed an item at said auction, or by the fact that the money from the auction went to the bank accounts of playing characters who were too busy on tours of duty to really have a playing career?

The auction was incredibly fun (attended), and it was nice for everyone to come out and show their support of the troops, if not the war itself.

-M

(edited because I thought of other questions i wanted to ask)

[Edited on Sat, July th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[HarmNone]

This thread has been cleansed of multiple off-topic posts. I haven't bothered with U2Us, as there were simply too many of them, and off-topic posts do not result in points assessment.

Now, stay on topic.

[Nieninque]

Damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Some people just dont have enough to worry about :rolleyes:

[OreoElf]

It doesn't make sense to complain about this to me... I mean if you were complainting about what's been going on lately with the wavedancer... and the Staide incidents.. well that's in another thread already heh. I'm all for supporting our troops, whether or not I agree with their current mission. They serve their country for mostly a pitance.

[GSTamral]

<<
Ciston wrote articles about all the money he made off GS.
>>

Nope, he didn't write anything. He simply agreed to be interviewed regarding the matter. There were companies and news agencies interested in the new economy that was developing in the internet game world

<<
not only did Simu do nothing but encouraged it.
>>

Not entirely true either. Fawn encouraged the sales, by intentionally turning a blind eye to the matter when GM's, even higher ones, such as Wolv, or hosts like Magiranger sold padding or services for dollars. If you've ever spoken to Ken, you would know that Melissa has not been as kind. Granted, she is limited in what she can do, and she doesn't devote all of her resources to the area, but a number of items have been nerfed or outright taken away from Ciston.

<<
Just like now Simu does nothing when GMs characters sale items for cash
>>

This one is untrue. Melissa has released more than one GM I know of (Wolv, Aldrek) for improper cash sales/benefits. Talking to several at the con, and knowing a few personally, I can assure you that not all GM's even care to engage in that type of behavoir. Those that do, if they do, don't exactly do it in the open either.

And the auction in question was basically a charity function to get some good press with the players. Ciston donated the lion's share of those items, many of which were not selling in a reasonable amount of time anyway on his cash list, others which he simply designated for the donation. He did not make any cash from that auction that I am aware of.

[HarmNone]

Spot on, Tamral. I agree with you right down the line.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by GSTamral
This one is untrue.

are you sure Stealth and Khaladon didnt just sale some items?

[Xcalibur]

95% of the gemstone's economy is controled by 5% of people and that includes some gms.

The problem with that rule is the fact that the gemstone's population is less than 2000.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by GSTamral
This one is untrue.

are you sure Stealth and Khaladon didnt just sale some items?

What kind of bullshit claim are you making here? Are those just 2 GM names you know.. so without any facts, you thought you would throw it against the wall in case it stuck?

[GSTamral]

Dave/Stealth is on leave right now in Iraq, and he has NEVER sold any items for cash either in the past or present. Granted, he never had any problems with the existance of the market, but he's never been one to engage in the behavoir. I find it rather insulting that you even made that type of accusation before knowing what was going on.

As for Paul/Khaladon, he's been a friend for years as well, and I know he doesnt sell for cash either. Just because these people traded items with Ciston and others who sell items for cash, who often turn around and sell those items for cash does not mean they are engaging in the behavoir.

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[StrayRogue]

Its ironic he whines about GM's selling for cash and basically fucking up the game when he himself is responsible for alot of the character sales over the years. I personally see that as being a hundred times worse for the game than simply selling a few mil for a few dollars.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by GSTamral
This one is untrue.

are you sure Stealth and Khaladon didnt just sale some items?

If you knew them both, as I do and I'm sure others here do as well, you would know that they both amassed their fortunes before becoming GMs.

[Jazuela]

I don't know about Stealth, but Khaladon definitely made serious coinage when he played a character back in the day. No idea if he still does it, but it always boggled my mind that the senior staff would hire him as a GM, knowing full well that he sold stuff for real money at the time he was hired, and that he didn't even make that much of a secret of it. He had a pretty nice racket going too - with numerous multi-accounts that he shared with a friend, including a wizard who could enchant, access to an enchanting workshop, and several cleric characters who were used as mana-batteries, rackers, etc. etc.

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by HarmNone]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jazuela
I don't know about Stealth, but Khaladon definitely made serious coinage when he played Avantos back in the day. No idea if he still does it, but it always boggled my mind that the senior staff would hire him as a GM, knowing full well that he sold stuff for real money at the time he was hired, and that he didn't even make that much of a secret of it. He had a pretty nice racket going too - with numerous multi-accounts that he shared with a friend, including a wizard who could enchant, access to an enchanting workshop, and several cleric characters who were used as mana-batteries, rackers, etc. etc.

Which was all 110% legal and within the bounds of the game. There's a reason they changed the way enchanting works. They created such an idiotic system that in effect limited the mass production to those who had the resources. Now, enchanting is controlled and anyone can enchant - it just takes time.

[StrayRogue]

Wasn't Khaladon the guy who recently did that massive sale on the Locker Cleanout boards? And yeah, its not unlike him to do such things. Not at all.

[Jazuela]

Legal refers to law. It's irrelevent and I see the word bandied around way too frequently. The rules and regs of simutronics have nothing to do with the law.

The user agreement states clearly that everything within the game is property of Simutronics, and is not available for the user to buy, sell, or otherwise transfer outside the confines of the game without express permission from Simutronics. That is the rule. Everyone with an account is aware of this rule upon getting an account. The fact that Simutronics chooses to have such an unenforceable rule is moot. The rule exists, and Khaladon broke it, willingly, and became a GM while breaking it.

The reason Simu puts this rule into their rules and regs is to cover their asses in case someone gets scammed. They can say, with all justification, "Well we TOLD you not to sell stuff outside the game, it's your own damned fault for not following our rules. You're shit outta luck, pal." Without that rule, it's possible that they could be held responsible by the victim of a scam. With the rule, they hold themselves harmless.

Khaladon broke the rule and became a GM anyway. As have other staff members in the past. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't play GS anymore. It's a trading card game, not a roleplaying game. And I haven't bought a trading card since I was around 10 years old, nor have I had the desire to do so since then.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Legal refers to law. It's irrelevent and I see the word bandied around way too frequently. The rules and regs of simutronics have nothing to do with the law.

The user agreement states clearly that everything within the game is property of Simutronics, and is not available for the user to buy, sell, or otherwise transfer outside the confines of the game without express permission from Simutronics. That is the rule. Everyone with an account is aware of this rule upon getting an account. The fact that Simutronics chooses to have such an unenforceable rule is moot. The rule exists, and Khaladon broke it, willingly, and became a GM while breaking it.

The reason Simu puts this rule into their rules and regs is to cover their asses in case someone gets scammed. They can say, with all justification, "Well we TOLD you not to sell stuff outside the game, it's your own damned fault for not following our rules. You're shit outta luck, pal." Without that rule, it's possible that they could be held responsible by the victim of a scam. With the rule, they hold themselves harmless.

Khaladon broke the rule and became a GM anyway. As have other staff members in the past. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't play GS anymore. It's a trading card game, not a roleplaying game. And I haven't bought a trading card since I was around 10 years old, nor have I had the desire to do so since then.

So, exactly when are you going to mention that your character had some sort of relationship with Khaladon's at some juncture and that things didn't end all that well, Jazuela? I could see a good bit of venom in this last post, and I'm sure that some of it is residual. (I could be wrong, but I thought that your characters, were in fact, married?)

Whether you agree or disagree with the term about legal, I know that you fully understood what I meant. There was nothing shady at all about enchanting, using clerics, workshops or anything of the sort. You might not like it, but that's the system that was in place. It made some folks very rich.

If your intention was to tarnish the reputation of Paul, you did a poor job. I believe that you no longer play Gemstone for many other reasons, and I doubt that the sales of gear is the main reason but I'm sure that you will not hesitate to let us know.

[Jazuela]

Yep my PC and his were married. For around a week, until his player decided his character was now in love with his RL girlfriend. And he expected me to pretend our characters never loved each other or some such nonsense, after I shelled out $100 to pay for the premium wedding. And yeah it pissed me off, but I had conversations in the past with him (the player) about how I didn't like the idea of him selling stuff for cash, or trading with Ciston. I had issues with that for a long time, before our characters got married. But one thing was IC, the other thing was OOC, and I didn't like bringing my OOC opinions into the game if I thought I could avoid it.

Unfortunately he didn't feel the same way. As I mentioned in my previous post, I have NO IDEA if he still buys/sells stuff for cash. For all I know, he stopped doing it the moment he became a GM and has been a model of propriety ever since.

This was years ago, and I stopped playing GS around 4-6 months after all that stuff happened. I even tried going back to play again a year after I quit but it just wasn't the same. Characters who my character had been friends with, had been sold to players who had no knowledge of our characters' friendships. Because - it's a trading card game, as I said.

[StrayRogue]

An old thread of mine does a good enough job of "tarnishing" Khals' reputation TRL. Jaz doesn't need much help in this respect.

[Warriorbird]

There's tons of people who never did anything like that. Maybe you just needed a more open eye during the "good old days."

[Jolena]

I still don't see how her character being married to Khal's character, however short lived it was, has anything to do with her lack of pleasure in Khal's player selling/buying items for cash at one point in time. I mean, that might be part of why she's so expressive in her distaste for it and in mentioning Khal/Paul specifically, but I don't think it alters the fact that she has seen him do it and didn't like it.

[Warriorbird]

You buy things for cash, Stay. Where exactly is your leg to stand on here?

[StrayRogue]

What have I bought for cash?

And I don't buy/sell characters. I don't give certain people certain freebies or heads up on WD stateroom tickets going on sale, either.

[Edited on 10-7-05 by StrayRogue]

[Warriorbird]

Excuse me, was it sell? Not much difference. And no, I never bought the bullshit Celtar argument that items and silver sales don't effect the game.

I don't really have a problem with people doing any of it, I just think folks who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Jazuela]

Thanks - I didn't understand what one had to do with the other either. What I RP *IN* a game, has nothing to do with what goes on OUT of the game. If some people have a hard time grasping that concept, it sounds more like some kind of emotional instability issue to me <shrug>

[StrayRogue]

What exactly have I sold for cash? I'd really like to know.

[StrayRogue]

Still waiting.

[Warriorbird]

Well, not all the old posts are available...but...

Here's the most recent in that milieu.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=11814

And I could swear I've seen similar before, in various places.

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Warriorbird]

[StrayRogue]

And I bought from her? OH wait you have no idea if I even did that, do you. As David Brent once said, "don't assume, it makes an ass out of you and me".

[Warriorbird]

:chuckles: Doesn't exactly look like the post of someone who's opposed to the practice.

Stay comforted in that tremendously high moral ground. Me, I just think the "silvers and items" are fine crowd is full of it, when they complain about character sales.

[Edaarin]

Your head resembles that of a chicken.

[StrayRogue]

Hell, look ONE post down to prove I didn't buy from her. Secondly I didn't say I was apposed to it at all. Nor have I ever said it wasn't damaging to either the economy or the game. What I do have a problem with is people abusing their status for financial gain.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. Don't get me wrong. I don't disapprove of the practice, Edaarin. I just don't like hypocrisy about it.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
An old thread of mine does a good enough job of "tarnishing" Khals' reputation TRL. Jaz doesn't need much help in this respect.


Yeah Stay, I know what you are talking about, I hardly think you did much damage. I believe that Dennis actually told Paul that the tickets were on sale, not vice versa - but you are welcome to believe what you want.

[StrayRogue]

As are you.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jolena
I still don't see how her character being married to Khal's character, however short lived it was, has anything to do with her lack of pleasure in Khal's player selling/buying items for cash at one point in time. I mean, that might be part of why she's so expressive in her distaste for it and in mentioning Khal/Paul specifically, but I don't think it alters the fact that she has seen him do it and didn't like it.

Jolena,

Don't you think that perhaps for her own privacy - I didn't include the rest of the real story? There's more than enough reason for her to attempt to smear Paul, I'll leave it at that. She admitted as much.

There is no proof that Paul has sold a thing for cash. It's very common for people to confuse trading, selling for silvers with selling for cash. I think that it should be made perfectly clear that we have no proof that he's ever done this. Let's not perpetuate the rumor.

[Jolena]

What thread was it Stay? I don't remember reading that one.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
What have I bought for cash?

And I don't buy/sell characters. I don't give certain people certain freebies or heads up on WD stateroom tickets going on sale, either.

[Edited on 10-7-05 by StrayRogue]

So, let's see your proof Stay.

[StrayRogue]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=15808

[Jolena]

TRL,

With all due respect, if you were concerned about the girl's privacy, I doubt you would have brought up her relationship in game with Paul's character in the first place.


Secondly, there is equally no proof that he didn't do what he is being accused of. Me personally, I don't care if he did or did not. But the relationship that this girl's character had with his character in game really isn't all that relavent in my opinion to the issue of whether he sold/bought items for cash. That is the only point of my post previously.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Thanks - I didn't understand what one had to do with the other either. What I RP *IN* a game, has nothing to do with what goes on OUT of the game. If some people have a hard time grasping that concept, it sounds more like some kind of emotional instability issue to me <shrug>

:lol:

[StrayRogue]

Its funny you whine about Jaz having her own agenda when you yourself are hardly putting forth and unbiased perspective here. Your source is just as suspect as hers.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jolena
TRL,

With all due respect, if you were concerned about the girl's privacy, I doubt you would have brought up her relationship in game with Paul's character in the first place.


Secondly, there is equally no proof that he didn't do what he is being accused of. Me personally, I don't care if he did or did not. But the relationship that this girl's character had with his character in game really isn't all that relavent in my opinion to the issue of whether he sold/bought items for cash. That is the only point of my post previously.

It's called full disclosure. I understand that you like to see things from all sides, but when you (Roberta) are slamming someone at least have the balls to admit that you had a relationship with the person. I think it's relevant. Very relevant.

Wow, exciting afternoon this is!

[Jolena]

Honestly though, your relationship (friends) with Paul is probably tinting your outlook and opinions as well, TRL. You speak all of these things as if you have first hand knowledge, which I'm going to assume that it comes from Paul's tale of the situation to you. Which is fine, but on the same token, Jaz's side of the story is just as relavent. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Its funny you whine about Jaz having her own agenda when you yourself are hardly putting forth and unbiased perspective here. Your source is just as suspect as hers.

It's no secret that Dennis is one of my best friends. I have known Paul since he started Gemstone. Never been involved with either, never slept with either. In or out of the game. What is there to disclose, Stay? I am merely the one with a good deal of background info on the one in question- and you inserted yourself in here - we have two things going on at once.

[Jazuela]

Rose, it's irrelevent. I really don't give a shit about Paul, whether he's doing great or doing lousy or whatever. It has NOTHING to do with the subject, or my opinion on the subject. The subject is - using status as a staff member for OOC gain. The subject is staff members cheating to "get stuff".

My opinion is the same with Dartaghan - he did it too, he got caught, he got in trouble for it. I got along great with Dartaghan, what little I interacted with him. My character and his character did interact and I enjoyed the roleplay. But how I interact with a character or even whether or not I'm friendly with the player - has NO BEARING on my opinion regarding staff members cheating or abusing their status.

As I said in my other post - if you can't see past your own spin on things, if you can't comprehend the notion of Issue A having absolutely nothing to do with Issue B, then that sounds more to me like an emotional instability on your part. Really - get over it. It's OLD.

[StrayRogue]

My point exactly Jolena.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Its funny you whine about Jaz having her own agenda when you yourself are hardly putting forth and unbiased perspective here. Your source is just as suspect as hers.

It's no secret that Dennis is one of my best friends. I have known Paul since he started Gemstone. Never been involved with either, never slept with either. In or out of the game. What is there to disclose, Stay? I am merely the one with a good deal of background info on the one in question- and you inserted yourself in here - we have two things going on at once.

See Jolena's post. Your friendship and knowledge of both is hardly putting your fourth an impartial witness here.

[Jazuela]

Her friendship with them is irrelevent. Just like my interaction with Paul and his character is irrelevent. It has nothing to do with anything, except as far as my being party to some of those enchanting sessions until I was informed that the items being enchanted were being sold for cash. I stopped spending so much time with them, until eventually I avoided interacting with them entirely. The whole bunch of them, not just Paul. Most of them run by Paul, most of the time, but shared among several other people.

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by HarmNone]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jolena
Honestly though, your relationship (friends) with Paul is probably tinting your outlook and opinions as well, TRL. You speak all of these things as if you have first hand knowledge, which I'm going to assume that it comes from Paul's tale of the situation to you. Which is fine, but on the same token, Jaz's side of the story is just as relavent. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I don't recall anyone saying that there wasn't some truth to what she said. Truthfully it grates on my nerves when someone gets on their high horse and passes judgement without disclosing that they have a past. It's that simple.

I will defend my friends. Paul got to a SGM through nothing but hard ass work, despite all the stuff that he has to endure.

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Eh. Don't get me wrong. I don't disapprove of the practice, Edaarin. I just don't like hypocrisy about it.

Heh, my quote wasn't targeted at you.

It was just a random post about nothing.

EDIT: To throw in my two cents...I'm fairly sure that all of the people named in this thread care this much about anyone's opinion of them but their friends'.

<--> This much

[Edited on 7-10-2005 by Edaarin]

[StrayRogue]

Hey I've got no problem with Khaladon. I don't know him and he does great things for GS from what I've seen. What I dislike in general is people abusing their position. As an aside what I hate the most about most GMs is their smug belief that GS is on the up and up and how they actively snipe down anyone who contests their opinions on the officials.

[Jolena]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Jolena
Honestly though, your relationship (friends) with Paul is probably tinting your outlook and opinions as well, TRL. You speak all of these things as if you have first hand knowledge, which I'm going to assume that it comes from Paul's tale of the situation to you. Which is fine, but on the same token, Jaz's side of the story is just as relavent. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I don't recall anyone saying that there wasn't some truth to what she said. Truthfully it grates on my nerves when someone gets on their high horse and passes judgement without disclosing that they have a past. It's that simple.

I will defend my friends. Paul got to a SGM through nothing but hard ass work, despite all the stuff that he has to endure.

On the same token, I don't recall anyone saying that Paul didn'tget his SGM position due to anything but hard ass work, TRL. I happen to like Khaladon and know several people who know Paul personally. They have never said anything negative about him.

That being said, to Jaz, yes her relationship with Paul and the other people mentioned *should* be irrelevant. Which was my point in posting that. If your relationship with Paul's character was brought up then so should TRL's relationship with Paul be. Just devil's advocate really.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Jazuela
As I said in my other post - if you can't see past your own spin on things, if you can't comprehend the notion of Issue A having absolutely nothing to do with Issue B, then that sounds more to me like an emotional instability on your part. Really - get over it. It's OLD.

Are you fucking kidding me? Turn that mirror on yourself babe. No bulletin board is that serious that you should be pulling out the psycho-analysis. You truly are a scorned woman. I feel for ya, I really do. :(

[StrayRogue]

TRL, you didn't get the point she was trying to make at all there.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Its funny you whine about Jaz having her own agenda when you yourself are hardly putting forth and unbiased perspective here. Your source is just as suspect as hers.

It's no secret that Dennis is one of my best friends. I have known Paul since he started Gemstone. Never been involved with either, never slept with either. In or out of the game. What is there to disclose, Stay? I am merely the one with a good deal of background info on the one in question- and you inserted yourself in here - we have two things going on at once.

See Jolena's post. Your friendship and knowledge of both is hardly putting your fourth an impartial witness here.

Stay, I would like to see your proof. You say that things weren't on the up and up, let's see it.

[StrayRogue]

Thanks for proving my point.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Thanks for proving my point.

You say that there were shenanigans, I say prove it. You don't bother to produce anything. I don't really know what point has been proven - but that's okay.

[StrayRogue]

For people like you, TRL, friends, people who can't get beyond the "FRIEND UNDER ATTACK, STANCE DEFENSIVE" mode, any evidence that I could provide would not be enough. There'd always be one person who'd say it was faked or whatever.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
For people like you, TRL, friends, people who can't get beyond the "FRIEND UNDER ATTACK, STANCE DEFENSIVE" mode, any evidence that I could provide would not be enough. There'd always be one person who'd say it was faked or whatever.

Actually Stay, that's not entirely true. But I can see how you would draw that conclusion. And I agree that regardless of what you produce, to many it would not be enough.

Yes, I will defend my friends - but that doesn't mean that they have something to hide or to be defended against.

[Warriorbird]

You might effect other people's opinion, however. You've effected mine about people before.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Knowing Paul, and knowing his personality and his work ethic, I can honestly say i do NOT see him ever having sold anything for cash. Paul comes from a strong business family, owns a company and he's a hard worker and honestly he doesn't need the money, he never has. So I just really can't see it happening.

He's a damned good GM, and I've never seen or heard of him selling things he gained as a GM for cash. He's gotten to where he is through hard work and honestly he's responsible for probably 75% or more of the things that make the game fun.

I just don't see the point of bashing GM's, especially the ones that make the biggest differance in the game.

Here's an idea. How about if you see it happening you email Melissa. Honestly comming here to bitch does nothing to stop what seems to offend you so badly. The GM character has to pass it off in game right?

So get them busted.

[HarmNone]

I've got to agree. If you have information that indicates that GMs are selling items for cash, you need to give that information to Melissa. Wailing about it here is of absolutely no value.

If you present the information and it isn't acted upon, you then have a decision to make. Do you continue to support a game run by people you don't respect, or do you go elsewhere? Some have made the former decision, some have made the latter. Some don't believe there's a problem, or don't see the issue as important to them.

[Ardwen]

Sheesh only one thing to say here.

What a bunch of bullshit.

If theres proof show it if there isnt get a fucking life.


Ardwen

And in case ya hadnt put 2 and 2 together Dennis

[kookiegod]

Last post....

So I wrote Jazelua/Bestatte about this post...

To quote her..

I don't know about Stealth, but Khaladon definitely made serious coinage when he played a character back in the day. No idea if he still does it, but it always boggled my mind that the senior staff would hire him as a GM, knowing full well that he sold stuff for real money at the time he was hired, and that he didn't even make that much of a secret of it.

So I wrote to her via your nifty U2U system (which is very cool)...

...For the record, i've never, ever sold things for cash, not as a player, not as a gm, not once, not ever...

The reply I got shocked me. I mean really...Do remember, this was 1998 or so, and I wasn't staff or in the know, so I'd plead to being somewhat naive.

"You exchanged game items with silvers, that were purchased with cash, and exchanged silvers with game items, which were purchased with cash. Regardless of the semantic details, it equates to the same thing as far as I'm concerned. At first, if you recall, you claimed that to your knowledge Ciston had no dealings with cash sales whatsoever when I first brought it up to you. And then after it was obvious he did, you shrugged it off and said that since you weren't doing the actual cash sales, your hands were clean. You were part and parcel to the whole scam, you knew it, and whether the US currency ever found your fingers or not is irrelevent. "

So, she posted I sold things, but in a private message, said I did not. My only crime was guilt by association, since she says I never got anything from it, but coins and items. I'll admit for sure to being a huge merchant before i was a GM, and since I got back into playing. But the claim as stated is false, baseless and without a single point of fact.

In other words, how is it not relevant??? I did not, you admit I did not, but only in someones mind was I guilty and a potshot taken at me for no reason.

Was some other factual issues, but they not the matter at hand.

Anyways, in the end whatever. I'm gonna keep doing what I do.

Enjoy.

~Khaladon

All your cookies are belong to us.

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by HarmNone]

[peam]

Jazuela knows everything, Khaladon.

How dare you imply otherwise?

[Tater Salad]

I have known Paul for awhile. I havent gotten free items. Where are my free items Paul. Damn yew!

[SpunGirl]

:lol:

She must have discovered those facts on a google search.

Really, I'm glad there are some staff posting here and refuting some serious bullshit. Were this the official boards, the accusations would just be deleted. Here, the posts, no matter how moronic, (usually) stand. Staff (which I thought previously were unallowed to post here) are free to ignore, respond, or refute as they choose.

Jazuela = pwnd.

-K

[Edited on 7-12-2005 by SpunGirl]

[HarmNone]

I've gotta say, this has been one of the most ridiculous threads I've seen in awhile; at least, of those threads that were supposed to be serious.

Khaladon is a GM. You either like his work as a GM, or you don't. If you don't, why does it become necessary to come here and announce to the world your little pet theory? Why does it become necessary to use any GMs real name? Did you ask Khaladon's player if it was okay if you used his real name here? Did you have that much courtesy? Did you ask if it was okay if you outed his characters, both current and past, before you ran your mouth? Do you think that, somehow, you've counted coup for knowing something you think others might not have known? Excuse me if I'm underwhelmed.

For what it's worth...think how you might feel if the same was done to you.

[Jolena]

I'm actually glad he posted here about this issue. Although my thoughts still stand regarding my previous posts and I still don't care whether he gained cash for items or not, I find it humorous that she would neglect to mention that he didn't actually gain cash but that she felt it was the same.

She came here and blasted into him regarding his 'selling/trading items for cash' and then in the same breath admits to him that he didn't actually DO that but it is the same thing to her since he had an inkling that it's being done by the person he's trading/buying from for silvers.

Any credit you might have recieved from me before regarding the validity of your statements Jaz was just removed completely. If you're going to 'out' someone, at least be completely honest about it and present the facts, not just your personal feelings. :no:

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by kookiegod
Last post....

So I wrote Jazelua/Bestatte about this post...

To quote her..

I don't know about Stealth, but Khaladon definitely made serious coinage when he played Avantos back in the day. No idea if he still does it, but it always boggled my mind that the senior staff would hire him as a GM, knowing full well that he sold stuff for real money at the time he was hired, and that he didn't even make that much of a secret of it.

So I wrote to her via your nifty U2U system (which is very cool)...

...For the record, i've never, ever sold things for cash, not as a player, not as a gm, not once, not ever...

The reply I got shocked me. I mean really...Do remember, this was 1998 or so, and I wasn't staff or in the know, so I'd plead to being somewhat naive.

"You exchanged game items with silvers, that were purchased with cash, and exchanged silvers with game items, which were purchased with cash. Regardless of the semantic details, it equates to the same thing as far as I'm concerned. At first, if you recall, you claimed that to your knowledge Ciston had no dealings with cash sales whatsoever when I first brought it up to you. And then after it was obvious he did, you shrugged it off and said that since you weren't doing the actual cash sales, your hands were clean. You were part and parcel to the whole scam, you knew it, and whether the US currency ever found your fingers or not is irrelevent. "

So, she posted I sold things, but in a private message, said I did not. My only crime was guilt by association, since she says I never got anything from it, but coins and items. I'll admit for sure to being a huge merchant before i was a GM, and since I got back into playing. But the claim as stated is false, baseless and without a single point of fact.

In other words, how is it not relevant??? I did not, you admit I did not, but only in someones mind was I guilty and a potshot taken at me for no reason.

Was some other factual issues, but they not the matter at hand.

Anyways, in the end whatever. I'm gonna keep doing what I do.

Enjoy.

~Khaladon

All your cookies are belong to us.

You forgot rule number one:


Khaladon says, "Anything posted on the Players Corner is suspect, useless at best, outright lies at worst."

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Jazuela
I don't know about Stealth, but Khaladon definitely made serious coinage when he played a character back in the day. No idea if he still does it, but it always boggled my mind that the senior staff would hire him as a GM, knowing full well that he sold stuff for real money at the time he was hired, and that he didn't even make that much of a secret of it. He had a pretty nice racket going too - with numerous multi-accounts that he shared with a friend, including a wizard who could enchant, access to an enchanting workshop, and several cleric characters who were used as mana-batteries, rackers, etc. etc.

Which was all 110% legal and within the bounds of the game. There's a reason they changed the way enchanting works. They created such an idiotic system that in effect limited the mass production to those who had the resources. Now, enchanting is controlled and anyone can enchant - it just takes time.

[TheRoseLady]

Where is PB's stock icon when you need it? I think it's :smug:

I feel a bit vindicated. Jazuela exposed once again that she's full of shit. The next time you try and pull off some bullshit like this Jazuela, remember that you can and do hurt people in the process because of your OPINIONS. Don't put shit out there as fact, garner the support of people who are giving you the benefit of the doubt only to get it shoved back in your face.

[SpunGirl]

And yet Ms. Google herself has been silent. Hm..... :?:

-K

[StrayRogue]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but why are we taking the word of someone over another person? Because they're a figure of power in a computer game? I just don't get why someone's word is taken as gospel over someone elses.

[SpunGirl]

For my part, it's because I believe Khal geniunely cares about the game. I do NOT believe he would knowingly take part in something that is so clearly detrimental to the game.

Add to that the fact that the accuser in this situation is Jazuela, and I think the answer is pretty clear. This is the woman who would have us believe she's a legal expert, a sexuality expert, literature expert, economics expert, RPG expert, medical expert, etcetcetc.... based on whatever information she can cut and paste from google as it pertains to whatever question someone is currently asking. Just not trustworthy, IMO.

-K

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but why are we taking the word of someone over another person? Because they're a figure of power in a computer game? I just don't get why someone's word is taken as gospel over someone elses.

I'm personally going by the source. I'd take Khaladon's word over Jazuela only because I know Khaladon better. Only slighty better, but still better.

Aaaaand because of what Spun said. :D

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
And yet Ms. Google herself has been silent. Hm..... :?:

-K

Im sure you've no need to ask why, Spun :)

[HouseofElves]

I think it is tacky if a GM feels the need to come here and defend themselves. Honestly, someone like Quabu would be posting every week. And who wants to see that? It just makes them seem more guilty in my eyes. GMs should be able to shrug off this kind of nonsense, them posting will only continue to fuel it.

[The Cat In The Hat]

GM's are human just like the rest of us and can only take so much. What he was accused of is (in my opinion) the most serious accusation you can make against a GM and if I were in his shoes I too wouldn't let it go unanswered.

Everyone has their own opinion and is fully entitled to it. I however don't see it to be the slightest bit tacky.

[HouseofElves]

I also believe that GMs should carry a level of professionalism that dismisses this kind of situation. I'm certainly not Khaladon's biggest fan but I don't think anyone, myself included believed the accusations brought against him in this thread. I, for certain, would never think that he would be guilty of such of thing. It seems from people's responses that there was no evidence save a scorned friend's opinion.

To try to validate their stance by coming here and "setting the record straight" only makes it seem like it had more position and opens the door to an expected level of such things from not only him but other GMs as well.

[CrystalTears]

So they should be above human and take shit just because they're GMs? It's not like Khaladon has been coming here for years defending himself or something. This is his first appearance in what, 3 or 4 years?

Whether the stories and rumors were all fabricated or not, sometimes it's nice to hear them say, "Hey, I'm a real person, quit being a horse's ass to me just because I didn't make the My Little Pony alteration for your poodle skirt and bodice."

[Jolena]

Yes well he did explain himself and it's done and over.

[HouseofElves]

You have your thoughts, I have mine. But not after a day after he posted in another thread, two more complaints about him pop up. It could start a nasty chain.


I kinda rhymed.

[HarmNone]

I'd love to see the GMs come here to post just for the hell of it. It's a shame, as far as I'm concerned, that anyone would feel the need to defend themselves against unproven allegations, GM or otherwise.

I don't see the fault lying with the defender as much as with the accuser. If you're going to waltz in here and accuse someone, anyone, of abusing their "power", you really should be able to prove that accusation before you open your internet mouth. Otherwise, it's the accuser who looks the fool to me.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
You have your thoughts, I have mine. But not after a day after he posted in another thread, two more complaints about him pop up. It could start a nasty chain.


I kinda rhymed.

If you'll notice, many of those complaints began with the same person, long before Khaladon posted.

[HarmNone]

I don't care who you are, or how great an effort you make, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like you, or doesn't like what you do and/or the way you do it. It's a fact of life. It's when that dislike takes the form of unproven accusations and shows up here that I take issue. If you're going to talk the talk, walk the walk. Bring your proof or keep your personal dislikes to yourself. I also don't see the need to harp on what you say happened in the distant past, again...with no proof that what you say is fact.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
"Hey, I'm a real person, quit being a horse's ass to me just because I didn't make the My Little Pony alteration for your poodle skirt and bodice."

This made me laugh so hard I snorted iced tea and it hurt. CrystalTears, will you marry me!?!?

-K

[Matt-Ichiban]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I also don't see the need to harp on what you say happened in the distant past, again...with no proof that what you say is fact.

Huh...I thought harping would be the point of a Nuisances and Annoyances forum.

[Nieninque]

Some kind of evidence validates the harping though...which is what the second part of HN's sentence alludes to

[Caramia]

But the relationship that this girl's character had with his character in game really isn't all that relavent in my opinion to the issue of whether he sold/bought items for cash.

Late to the game but still, it is relevant when it's not the character relationship but some other "relationship" outside the game that colors a person's opinion, despite protestations.

What a person did before they are hired was taken into consideration and probably investigated, if it was as widespread and well known as stated. Has he sold things for $$$ since becoming a GM?

I don't hear Mahegh being talked about in the same light, and yet he was a well know merchant character who became a GM, too. Or Kabosh. Not all character merchants sell items for money outside the game, if you're drawing that assumption.

If you can have information that GMs have sold things for money since being hired, do what others and HarmNone has suggested: Take it to the proper place for it to be dealt with, instead of coming here to whine about it powerlessly, especially if you haven't any facts to back it up.

[Xcalibur]

WHO CARES????

Gemstone is a game kept alive because of Ebay.

Even though there's less and less people playing it, there is still some sells made on ebay, so continue to prove my first comment, please.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
WHO CARES????

Gemstone is a game kept alive because of Ebay.

Even though there's less and less people playing it, there is still some sells made on ebay, so continue to prove my first comment, please.

0 items found for GSIV

5 items found for Gemstone IV

Item Title PayPal Price Bids Time Left
Gemstone IV 90+ Paladin $750.00
- 3h 38m
1 million silvers - GemStone IV 4 $16.00
$17.00
-
1d 12h 41m
Gemstone III IV GS3 GS4 - Millions of Silvers For Sale!
Safely BUY & SELL Silver, Items, & Characters with US!
$6.50
5 3d 08h 05m
GEMSTONE III/ GEMSTONE IV GS3 GS4 1 MIL SILVE $13.60
3 4d 13h 06m
Gemstone IV 80 imbeddable ready rods (80 mana each) $1.50
- 5d 11h 20m


Now, were there say... 50 or more items on ebay, I could see your statement as having some truth to it.

[CrystalTears]

Not that I would like to agree with him, but I improved one of his statements:

Gemstone is a game kept alive because of character transfers and real money exchanges for game items and silver.

If they would stop allowing character transfers and would actually DO something to people who have been known or caught selling for real profit, the game would come to a halt.

[Jolena]

I don't believe it would actually. I think that a small amount of people only play to make real life cash from trading/selling characters, items and silvers but I do not think that there are so many that Gemstone would come to a halt if they were stopped.

I think it would definately lessen some of the populace as most of those people I would think hold several accounts and characters. Just not enough to shut the game down.

[Andaras]

Amused Tamral that you didn't get GM Stealth's real name correct. Dave you say? :::chuckle::: Next time I catch him on AIM I'll have to ask him about his great friendship with you, Paul to for that matter.

[Andaras]

Now this was an amusing thread. Roberta attacking Paul and talking about mixing ooc and ic. Coming from a woman who was completely confused about what is ic and what is ooc that is just to rich.

I mean we are talking about Roberta/Besttate who would hook up with other players at Gathers though she was married. Who said it wasn't cheating because it was all done in charactor. She used to talk about how she hooked up with Billy boy aka Starsnuffer at one gather.

She tried to hook up with me right after my divorce back in hmm 97 or so when I still lived on the East Coast. Nick/Miphnik and I were quite amused by Roberta antics as I recall. I told Nick that there was just no way I was hooking up with this crazy woman. lol.

Roberta of all the people with complaints about players having seperation of what's ic and what's ooc, you should be the last one to raise that flag.

Btw I honestly don't ever recall Paul ever buying or selling squat for cash and I've known him a long time, back when he was a cluless newbie player and hell even when he was a clueless newbie GM. Now a days he knows just enough to be dangerous. ::grin::

His sense of ethics and fairness are such that he just wouldn't go for the cash sales folks. Hell he and I have had some strong words when he's been critical to me about GM Aldrek/Jim. Something I didn't appreciate as he knows from our exchanged words on that subject.

Anyhow I'd like to kick a certain female GM in the shin for showing me this thread, though it was amusing to read it's the typical same old crap you tend to see.

Jim

p.s: Parkbandit is a pansy and Dennis sniffs old shoes.

[SpunGirl]

:lol: @ Jazuela/Bestatte/etc. Keep diggin', girl.

-K

[DeV]

Originally posted by Andaras
Who said it wasn't cheating because it was all done in charactor. Oh God. :lol: hysterically.

[HarmNone]

:blink: Done in character while at SimuCon, which is distinctly OOC? Umm, may I say I'm a bit confuddled by that one? Is you is, or is you ain't, you? :lol:

Originally posted by HarmNone
:blink: Done in character while at SimuCon, which is distinctly OOC? Umm, may I say I'm a bit confuddled by that one? Is you is, or is you ain't, you? :lol:

It's not cheating if you are wearing elf ears.

[HarmNone]

Oooh! Elf ears automatically relieve one of all responsibility to one's significant other? And here I was, totally unaware! I gotta run out and get me some elf ears! Any elves got an extra pair laying around?

.
.
.

On second thought, I don't think Bill is stupid enough to buy the elf ears excuse. I'll stick with my former ignorance. :sigh:

[TheRoseLady]

Well....this is the SECOND time I get to use the :smug: icon.

My my, some days around the PC are just better than others.