2x dodge?

[Arqueto]

Well... I can never decide which character I want to stick with. I've brought my level 57 warrior back out of retirement.

Right now he looks like this:
Armor Use..........................| 240 140
Shield Use.........................| 158 58
Combat Maneuvers...................| 216 116
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 216 116
Brawling...........................| 216 116
Ambush.............................| 158 58
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 158 58
Physical Fitness...................| 216 116
Dodging............................| 158 58
Survival...........................| 114 28
Perception.........................| 158 58
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 117 29

He's a Voln master, although I'm strongly considering dropping it for CoL unless someone can convince me otherwise. I'd really like to have the staunching ability, plus the +20 boost to TD.

I'm thinking of changing him to this:

Armor Use 140
Shield Use 58
Two-Handed Weapons 116
Brawling 116
Combat Maneuvers 116
Multi-Opponent Combat 40
Physical Fitness 116
Dodging 116
Climbing 30
Swimming 25

Basically, I'm curious as to the thoughts on 2x dodge since I love the THW route. Will it really make that much of a difference? I don't mind dropping the first aid and survival. I could never skin anyway, and if I go to CoL tending will be pointless. Although I won't be using Voln-Fu anymore, the brawling is still good for DS, right?

Please let me know what you think. He's got a fixskills so I'd like to make him better if possible.

[Tromp]

Why use points of shield & brawl if you aren't going to use them? I'd stick with THW if that is your main choice of attack. Put the points in other places.

[Arqueto]

Well, I guess I could just double edged weapons instead of brawling. The cost is the same and at least they don't hit like wet noodles. I would really like to have two forms of attack. A shield comes in handy sometimes.

[Drew]

Wait, so you're fully training in brawling, can use Voln-Fu, and you don't like it?

[Arqueto]

Eh... I honestly despise hunting undead now. I really want to get the hell out of the Landing, and move to EN... If there's some good undead there for Fu, I would probably keep it. I just don't know much about the critters out there.

But yes, Fu served me well as long as I've had it.

[Parkbandit]

Fu is overpowered with someone who can double in brawling. The benefits of COL do not outweigh the benefits of this additional attack in my opinion. I would stick with it.

[AnticorRifling]

Go to the bog in Vaalor and favor hunt like once a month. A solid day of favor hunting should last you a good long while. Fu works good on living as well. Hell get a few more training and you can come to the keen with me.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd go with CoL.

Brawling does not help DS while you have a THW out. I'd drop that and shield entirely and get PF up to 3x, maybe get some ambush or perception too.

I'm surprised you couldn't skin. My level 38ish warrior 0.5xs survival and first aid too and gets a good 1k a hunt.

[Janarth]

I woudn't spend tps for 1k a hunt, but thats just me.

[Forged]

Honestly, if you are looking for a second form of attack, nothing else will come close to Fu, tp for tp. If you decide on a one-handed weapon, you'll want to consider shield training too. That can get prohibitavely expensive.

I'd suggest sticking with THW and Brawling, drop shield, max out PT.

With the redux you'll have with maxed out PT, you may consider dropping dodge to 1x and using the points to get 80 MOC ranks. 3 hits on any critter should be an auto-kill with a THW.

If more MOC isn't for you, you can use the points for cheap redux, such as shield use.

Everything from here is pretty open-ended for a warrior.

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by Forged]

[The Ponzzz]

Ambushing does nothing when open aiming, so don't get ambush. Perception is nice to have over all.

If yer not using Brawl, drop that and shield and pick up more PT and dodge.

But drop shield regardless, its pointless in all of your training.

[mgoddess]

Originally posted by Arqueto
I'm thinking of changing him to this:

Armor Use 140
Shield Use 58
Two-Handed Weapons 116
Brawling 116
Combat Maneuvers 116
Multi-Opponent Combat 40
Physical Fitness 116
Dodging 116
Climbing 30
Swimming 25

Basically, I'm curious as to the thoughts on 2x dodge since I love the THW route. Will it really make that much of a difference? I don't mind dropping the first aid and survival. I could never skin anyway, and if I go to CoL tending will be pointless. Although I won't be using Voln-Fu anymore, the brawling is still good for DS, right?

Please let me know what you think. He's got a fixskills so I'd like to make him better if possible.

As others have said, if you're not going to use brawling, drop it and pick up some OHE or OHB and at least keep the shield up to 1x, if not more (and use medium or smaller shields, so you don't hinder your dodging while using the shield). Keep 2x'ing in PF and Dodging (yes, dodging is very useful when you aren't using a shield...0.75 DS per rank adds up fast). Get up to at least 1x'ing in MoC, if not more. Perception's always good, so is Arcane Symbols or MIU (casting your own spells off scrolls is very handy when you can't find a wizard about).

As for Voln vs. CoL...it all depends on your strategy. If you don't need the Fu, Preservation, or Return...or are willing to give those three up (they seem like the best three Symbols to me), go for CoL. +35 AS/DS, TD, Staunching....they are all excellent things to have. :)

(Edited because I can't read and actually notice the difference between THW and TWC...*mutter* And because I should really edit the whole first paragraph during the first edit, not the second.)

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by mgoddess]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
Ambushing does nothing when open aiming, so don't get ambush.According to people who have done research, that is false.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
Ambushing does nothing when open aiming, so don't get ambush.According to people who have done research, that is false.

Um, its noted on the actual website that "when used from the open, the Ambush and Combat Maneuvers skills aid in achieving success", so the above about it not is rooted in total make believe.

[Pallon]

Favor hunting post-Bonespear sucks a donkey penis, and there's no comparably huge supply of undead in the EN. Unless you need Voln Fu for PvP or something, or really like hunting undead, CoL is much less of a pain in the ass for better AS/DS/TD.

[Arqueto]

Eh... screw it. I'm going to stay in Voln. I dropped MOC to 40 ranks, dropped FA and Survival, and picked up 2x dodge versus 1x. I'm headed to EN now. I just have to get the hell outta the Landing.

Is the blighted forest doable at my train?

[StrayRogue]

Easily.

[Arqueto]

Okay, sweet. I'm looking forward to something new. EN is so much better than the daily hell of the Landing.

[Edaarin]

To toss in my two cents...

I dropped COL in favor of Voln at like around level 70ish (GSIV). To put it quite simply...favor hunting SUCKS ASS in the Rift. Naisircs take 4-5 solid kicks even when mastered. About the ONLY thing that Fu is good for hunting wise over a regular weapon is with constructs. Even then, a solid leg whack and head ambush will do almost as well.

That's it. Two things that Fu is good for. Admittedly Symbol of Return is nice, but so is Sign of Darkness. Sign of Healing is absolutely a MUST for squares in the 66+ range. The constant 35 AS/DS is also practically a MUST. As is the TD boost.

If you're looking for PvP...well, I did manage to kill Tsin in 18 seconds with Voln Fu.

EDIT: I also concur; I wouldn't bother 0.5x'ing in First Aid/Survival. Better to do 1x in Trading. In GSIII, I was seeing something like a 20% increase in value of shit sold.

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by Edaarin]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Sign of Healing is absolutely a MUST for squares in the 66+ range.Do you mean "squares" or "nancy rogues"? I'm going to be peeved if the ridiculous redux and armor I'll have at that level aren't going to mean jack.

As for trading, at his level, he would see a 15% bonus (before racial biases) for singling with a 25 bonus in INF. Not too shabby.

[Edaarin]

I mean squares, unless you plan on picking up enough MIU to go in glowing like a fairy.

You're going to get slammed by casters. Spells like disintegration, maneuvers like that stupid griffin wing buffet, not to mention Ithzir scouts ambushing and pushing down your DS to offensive, as well as them getting the additional crit from ambushing from inviso.

Stunned character = lots of damage.

[Arqueto]

Okay... well, not being able to staunch really sucks. The boars have that maneuver attack which knocks me down maybe 1/5 times. I usually get stunned at they get a few whacks in.

I don't get close to dying, but the blood loss just gets annoying in terms of AS.

[Letum]

The whole place is irritating as hell, but almost never fatal. Sometimes the casting ogres get off a good bolt to the head, but thats about it.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Tromp
Why use points of shield & brawl if you aren't going to use them? I'd stick with THW if that is your main choice of attack. Put the points in other places.

I agree with Tromp... IF you go COL.

Though, as a warrior, I LOVED OHE, BRAWL, VOLN-FU, and KATARS ... I was very versatile in that regard. So its my opinion, if you stay in Voln, hold on to the brawl.

Finis

[Edited on 7-6-2005 by FinisWolf]

[Drew]

Originally posted by Arqueto
Okay... well, not being able to staunch really sucks. The boars have that maneuver attack which knocks me down maybe 1/5 times. I usually get stunned at they get a few whacks in.

I don't get close to dying, but the blood loss just gets annoying in terms of AS.



Symbol of restoration???

[AnticorRifling]

Symbol of restoration < haste imbed + acantha leaf.

[Janarth]

Originally posted by Edaarin
To toss in my two cents...

I dropped COL in favor of Voln at like around level 70ish (GSIV). To put it quite simply...favor hunting SUCKS ASS in the Rift. Naisircs take 4-5 solid kicks even when mastered. About the ONLY thing that Fu is good for hunting wise over a regular weapon is with constructs. Even then, a solid leg whack and head ambush will do almost as well.

That's it. Two things that Fu is good for. Admittedly Symbol of Return is nice, but so is Sign of Darkness. Sign of Healing is absolutely a MUST for squares in the 66+ range. The constant 35 AS/DS is also practically a MUST. As is the TD boost.

If you're looking for PvP...well, I did manage to kill Tsin in 18 seconds with Voln Fu.

EDIT: I also concur; I wouldn't bother 0.5x'ing in First Aid/Survival. Better to do 1x in Trading. In GSIII, I was seeing something like a 20% increase in value of shit sold.

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by Edaarin]

As a sorcerer who fully singles in brawling, will I be able to Voln Fu contructs when I get to that age? I'm a dark elf with high strength and dex, and also fully singled in perception. I've heard pures can't really touch them besides swinging...just curious, it'd be nice to be one of the few pures who just smirks at constructs. I'm atleast 30 levels off though...

[Arqueto]

Originally posted by Drew
Symbol of restoration???
Really? I had no idea.

On a serious note, it gets annoying having to use that so often, especially when favor hunting will probably be a pain in the ass as it is. I'll probably run out of favor here pretty soon.

[Landrion]

The problem I have with Voln right now is that so much of the useful symbols have either been directly or indirectly neutered.

Dreams is ruined flat out.

Need, Preserve and retrib are not handy in a world where depart confirm is a minor inconvienence. For that matter, who are you sym sighting if rescues are a rarity?

Similarly, return was only really better because you could take bodies in with it. Who's waiting around for that?

Being able to bless for yourself is okay.

As far as fu goes I have rarely ever found a hunt where fu was superior to my two hander.

On top of it, one of the few useful remaining tricks in the whole list (sym holinessing an undead critter to burn it) is going to be "looked at". Gee, I wonder how that will turn out.

Personally, the only thing holding me on voln is that I dont want to trash the sunk costs of mastering the damn thing. If someone told me I was going to be society wiped in two days and I had to pick new - it wouldnt even be a contest.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Arqueto

Originally posted by Drew
Symbol of restoration???
Really? I had no idea.

On a serious note, it gets annoying having to use that so often, especially when favor hunting will probably be a pain in the ass as it is. I'll probably run out of favor here pretty soon.

Faint lock and stance dance the boars. They don't stun very easily so you have to avoid getting hit by putting them in rt or by stancing around them.

[AnticorRifling]

I've only ever seen a boar stun off a tonis bolt. Other than that I never got one to stun.

[StrayRogue]

You can stun them. It just takes a massive hit on their head.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Edaarin
You're going to get slammed by casters. Spells like disintegration, maneuvers like that stupid griffin wing buffet, not to mention Ithzir scouts ambushing and pushing down your DS to offensive, as well as them getting the additional crit from ambushing from inviso.Do people really go into OTF at 66?

[StrayRogue]

Nope. They go to the rift at 66.

[hectomaner]

symbol of holiness. 'nuff said. and i DON'T mean blessing weapons.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by hectomaner
symbol of holiness. 'nuff said. and i DON'T mean blessing weapons.

You know thats going to be looked at right? Warden mentioned in the new societies seminar that he only wants to look at one remaining thing in voln/col while hes implementing the new society - symbol of holiness.

[Jonty]

plus the +20 boost to TD.

It's +15 now.


I dropped MOC to 40 ranks,

Why 40 and not 35?

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Landrion

Originally posted by hectomaner
symbol of holiness. 'nuff said. and i DON'T mean blessing weapons.

You know thats going to be looked at right? Warden mentioned in the new societies seminar that he only wants to look at one remaining thing in voln/col while hes implementing the new society - symbol of holiness.

Fill me in what are you talking about in reference to sym holiness?

[Landrion]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Originally posted by Landrion

Originally posted by hectomaner
symbol of holiness. 'nuff said. and i DON'T mean blessing weapons.

You know thats going to be looked at right? Warden mentioned in the new societies seminar that he only wants to look at one remaining thing in voln/col while hes implementing the new society - symbol of holiness.

Fill me in what are you talking about in reference to sym holiness?

If you aim symbol of holiness at an undead critter it sets the critter on fire, forces it prone and hits it with some nasty damage+crits.

During one of the Simucon forums Warden mentioned that he means to look at symbol of holiness as the last thing he means to tinker with in col or voln.

Aside from downtweaking the number of swings the spell grants there isnt a whole lot to screw with in this symbol - so thats that.

[hectomaner]

wow, that sucks so bad. such a good offensive tool