18: Old Enough?

[Back]

18 year olds can enlist in the military.

18 year olds can have legal sex.

18 year olds can vote.

Why can’t they drink in this country?

[Edited on 6-26-2005 by Backlash]

[Bobmuhthol]

18 year olds can't vote now?

And they can't drink alcohol because it's a dangerous mind-altering drug.

p.s. age of consent varies by state

[Edited on 6-26-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

[Omens]

Sex with a 16 yearold is legal with a note from the parents in KY.

Age of consent in MA is legal at 16. No parent notes needed or anything.

- Arkans

[Back]

Changed the first post. Yes, its a cloudy Sunday.

[Bobmuhthol]

As long as the other person is not 18.

[Tsa`ah]

Don't forget, they can smoke to.

[Back]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
And they can't drink alcohol because it's a dangerous mind-altering drug.

Yet they can die in wars.

[Bobmuhthol]

You can smoke until you die; it doesn't affect anyone else.

You can drink until you die; there's a very good chance you'll do a lot more damage than just killing yourself.

[SpunGirl]

I always thought Germany had the right idea. Drinking at 16, driving at 18. That way, you're an experienced drinker before you begin to drive.

-K

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Yet they can die in wars.>>

You're right, they can die in wars. With any luck, a war will not have to happen. In the event that it does, it seems right that an adult has the choice to defend their country in the United States military.

[Wezas]

New girlfriend backlash?

18-20 is the best age. You can screw away but she can't follow you into bars when you go out with your buddies.

[Back]

Nah, just watching horror stories about Iraq on 60 minutes.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm surprisingly, strongly conservative. It makes me sad.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Wezas
New girlfriend backlash?

18-20 is the best age. You can screw away but she can't follow you into bars when you go out with your buddies.

Thats exactly what I thought too, heh.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
You can smoke until you die; it doesn't affect anyone else.

You can drink until you die; there's a very good chance you'll do a lot more damage than just killing yourself.

This was exactly why I always thought the drinking age was 21. Smoking gives yourself cancer. Drinking and say a car can kill yourself and whoever you hit. I guess that's the logic I always saw.

[SpunGirl]

Sadly, the drunk driver is ususally OK while the victims they smash into are the ones that get creamed.

-K

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
You can smoke until you die; it doesn't affect anyone else.



unless you are breathing in second hand smoke like the kids and unborn babies who have no choice

I hate smoking

[Hulkein]

I've been second hand smoking since the womb.

[Latrinsorm]

Insert the word "drunkenly" in any of the first three statements in your post and I believe you will have your answer.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. I think the "drinking is bad" culture contributes to making drinking worse.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<unless you are breathing in second hand smoke like the kids and unborn babies who have no choice>>

Be it at 50, 21, or 18.. this will still happen.

The anti-drinking culture is really bad.

Frankly, a better idea would be to invest some money in our public transit systems (make them good like Europe's) and then we'll get rid of the drunken driving problems.

- Arkans

[Edaarin]

The age restriction on drinking isn't going to stop someone who really wants to drink from doing it. However, a limit does need to be in place; it has to be somewhere. I just think 21 was kind of an arbitrary place to stick it.

[Bobmuhthol]

France has a shitload of metro stations.

People still drive there.

That's a terrible solution and will do nothing. :'(

[Personal opinion time!]

I'm not anti-drinking by any means. I feel the government is competent enough to place a fair age limit on alcohol consumption. I look forward to drinking regularly when I'm 21, and I have no problems waiting until I am 21. Leniency does not belong in this situation.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The age restriction on drinking isn't going to stop someone who really wants to drink from doing it.>>

This is no different than saying that the possibility of a life sentence on murder isn't going to stop someone who really wants to murder from doing it. Obviously, making a law can't stop someone from breaking it. They do have to deal with any consequences that result; though written words will never have the ability to effectively stop a person.

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

[Warriorbird]

We should listen to the government masters! Yes, they understand all and will make the right choice!

[Bobmuhthol]

I feel the government is competent enough to place a fair age limit on alcohol consumption.=
We should listen to the government masters! Yes, they understand all and will make the right choice!?

Sounds more like a bullshit, overused, anti-government mindset that has no real purpose other than to trigger more anti-government responses because you don't have a valid response.

[Scott]

Do you also feel that an 18 year old should be able to carry a pistol?

I think the drinking age should be lowered as well. I mean if you can get drafted, you should damn well be able to drink. However what do you think of 18 year old's carrying pistols.

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
This is no different than saying that the possibility of a life sentence on murder isn't going to stop someone who really wants to murder from doing it. Obviously, making a law can't stop someone from breaking it. They do have to deal with any consequences that result; though written words will never have the ability to effectively stop a person.


Come on, you're smart enough not to make that statement.

There are very few laws that are disregarded as often as alcohol consumption laws.

[Warriorbird]

I'd set the drinking age to sixteen, if I factored into the notion at all. Alternately I'd up the voting/military ages to 21 to make it jibe.

Otherwise, it's a rather ridiculous juxtaposition.

Aw shit, that was a valid response!



[Edited on 6-27-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Hulkein]

Well, instead of murder laws, replace it with speed limit laws. Should they be removed since so many people speed?

Also, Scott, I know in PA you can't legally carry a pistol until you're 21.

[Edaarin]

I never said they should be removed. I agree they need to be in place, I just think that 21 was an odd place to set the limit.

[Artha]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't drinking ages lowered to 18 on military bases? Something I recall hearing, but can't think of the source.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Edaarin
I never said they should be removed. I agree they need to be in place, I just think that 21 was an odd place to set the limit.

I agree with that.

Sorry, only remembered the cutout of what Bob had in his post.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Well, instead of murder laws, replace it with speed limit laws. Should they be removed since so many people speed?

Also, Scott, I know in PA you can't legally carry a pistol until you're 21.

Oh I know you can't, that's my point.

I always hear things like, "well if you can be drafted, you should be able to do anything at that age." So, how do you feel about 18 year olds carrying a pistol?

[Hips]

Originally posted by Artha
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't drinking ages lowered to 18 on military bases? Something I recall hearing, but can't think of the source.

Not at Dover AFB, that's for sure.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Do you also feel that an 18 year old should be able to carry a pistol?>>

Yes.

<<I mean if you can get drafted, you should damn well be able to drink. However what do you think of 18 year old's carrying pistols.>>

If the time comes when a draft is necessary, do you want the military to say, "All healthy, adult males 18-20 are excluded from the draft because they're not capable of serving?" I don't. They would be an asset to our defense.

Operating a firearm is not a difficult thing to do. I have no problem with qualified 18 year olds carrying them. Alcohol is not the operation of a simple mechanism. It's a potentially addictive, mind-altering drug.

I see absolutely no correlation between being drafted and drinking. You have to be 55(?) to be a senior citizen. If you can be drafted at 18, why can't you be a senior citizen, too?

<<There are very few laws that are disregarded as often as alcohol consumption laws.>>

Would you like a special police force to be assembled to patrol the country for underage drinking? Something is done about it when it is reported. It's inherently less regarded because there is no automatic harm. The potential is what prompts a law restricting it.

[Gigantuous]

Nope, drinking age on base is still 21.

It's a federal law that requires people to be 21 to buy/carry a pistol.

Personally, I find it a little humorous the drinking age and the age to carry a pistol are the same...

[Scott]

<<<I see absolutely no correlation between being drafted and drinking. You have to be 55(?) to be a senior citizen. If you can be drafted at 18, why can't you be a senior citizen, too?>>>>

If you can't see the difference between the two, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It's a federal law that requires people to be 21 to buy/carry a pistol.>>

Out of sheer curiosity, how would someone under 21 legally obtain a firearm?

Or are pistols an exception and require a specific license?

[Gigantuous]

You can buy rifles/shotguns at 18. Pistols at 21. Don't ask me why, I've no idea.

[Bobmuhthol]

Hm. You can be issued Firearms Identification at 15, though, but I think that's restricted to allowing you to own them in your home.

[StrayRogue]

16's the legal limit to have sex over here. Thank God.

[Gigantuous]

Keep in mind I've lived in Montana since I was 13...and basically there are no licenses to obtain for anyone to own a rifle/shotgun. There is a "hunter's safety" class that is RECOMMENDED for anyone using a rifle or shotgun under the tender age of 16, but not required.

I haven't personally tried to buy a pistol yet, but to get my concealed weapons permit all I had to do was show my license to prove I was a resident of Montana, and be 21.

[Bobmuhthol]

Firearms Identification Card (FID)
Residents must have an FID in order to purchase, possess, or transport a rifle or shotgun that is not a large-capacity gun; to purchase or possess ammunition or component parts of ammunition; and to purchase or possess defense sprays.


18 gets you an FID, 15-17 and parent permission gets you an FID. Likewise.. I guess it's only legal if your parent buys a firearm and gives it to you.

This is also the case when I buy weaponry. I answered my own question! Go me!


edit: That's MA law.

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

[Scott]

I don't think that means you can buy a gun under 18. I just seems to me that you need a FID to be ABLE to purchase a rifle/shotgun. That doesn't mean if you have a FID, that you CAN purchase one.

[Bobmuhthol]

Right, you can buy one at 18, but if you're younger than 18 someone can buy one and then give it to you because you have an FID.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Gigantuous
You can buy rifles/shotguns at 18. Pistols at 21. Don't ask me why, I've no idea.

Because it's harder to conceal a rifle/shotgun.

The only real way would be sawing off the shotgun... that being why it's illegal to do so.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Right, you can buy one at 18, but if you're younger than 18 someone can buy one and then give it to you because you have an FID.

The gun still belongs the older person.

[Bobmuhthol]

I wouldn't know because I've never purchased one.

[AnticorRifling]

It doesn't matter what you make the age limit on drinking. If it's 21 the cool thing to do is drink before you're 21. If it's 18 then you're going to be cool if you get plowed before then. The age limit was probably put in place in order to help control a dangerous substance getting into the hands of a minor. Do I think it should be 18? No. I think 21 is fine with one exception... If you're in the military you should be allowed to purchase with a military ID. In the barracks we have limits as to how much booze you may have depending on rank, might make an addition and add if you're < 21 you can have a 6 pack or whatever in your room. It would be a little perk for those that serve.


When my guys wanted to drink and they were underage I would always buy booze for them and allow them to drink in my room. I figured they were going to go get wasted regardless at least this way I was able to ensure they didn't do anything retarded. An underage drinking charge on base is much less of an offense than getting drunk out in town.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
An underage drinking charge on base is much less of an offense than getting drunk out in town.

not any more

providing alcohol to a minor is a major offense

also wanted to add regardless of what state or country you are in the age of consent for Army soldiers is 18

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
An underage drinking charge on base is much less of an offense than getting drunk out in town.

also wanted to add regardless of what state or country you are in the age of consent for Army soldiers is 18

Unless you're British.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
An underage drinking charge on base is much less of an offense than getting drunk out in town.

not any more

providing alcohol to a minor is a major offense

also wanted to add regardless of what state or country you are in the age of consent for Army soldiers is 18

I wasn't talking about my charge ToJ I'm talking about the offense that the minor would get. On base vs off base potential isn't even a contest.

They would get hit with underage drinking vs underage drinking (civilian authorities) + underage drinking (PMO) and you could probably, safely, toss on a dui/dwi or public intox on that too if they are caught out in town.

And yeah 18 across the board for any military person. And bj's and sodomy are against the USMJ too :cool:

Edit to add: I do agree, however, contributing to a minor in the military is a huge no go and you can pretty much bet money that you're losing at least one stripe if caught. I took the personal risk though because, like I said, I'd rather me get busted down a rank than have one of my devil dogs end up doing something stupid and killing themselves or someone else because they wanted to be sneaky off base drinking. Rank I can regain, I can't bring people back from the dead...yet.

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by AnticorRifling]

[theotherjohn]

I also think that the age restricitions on public office is to high.

I am all for a democratic system where no matter the age if your peers and neighbors want you in the position, age should not hold you back

[AnticorRifling]

While I agree it's too high I do think a standard age should be in place to weed out the general issues with maturity. 18 or 21 would be fine I guess.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<The age restriction on drinking isn't going to stop someone who really wants to drink from doing it.>>

This is no different than saying that the possibility of a life sentence on murder isn't going to stop someone who really wants to murder from doing it. Obviously, making a law can't stop someone from breaking it. They do have to deal with any consequences that result; though written words will never have the ability to effectively stop a person.

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

That's a puritan value system. We now use the Victorian system. Laws like alcohol consumption, marijuana possession, and speeding are selectively enforced to maintain relatively low numbers of "criminals." And also to raise a little muu-lah for the annual po-po picnic.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Backlash
18 year olds can enlist in the military.

Why can’t they drink in this country?

[Edited on 6-26-2005 by Backlash]

You can drink in the military if you're under 21 and enlisted.

Or so my history teacher told me in high school. Never been involved, so I wouldn't know.

[Showal]

Bob,

I live in MA too. I had a FID when I was 15. I was legally allowed to purchase and trasport shotguns and rifles. You can purchase on a FID in MA.

Pistols are different in MA. You can have a license to use a pistol for hunting and targets and a different license to conceal. A license to conceal is pretty tough to get in MA.

Back to the point, you can purchase at 15 in MA, at least when I was 15 - 8 years ago.

I'll agree with Bob. I have a lot of reasons to think both ways, but for the most part, I think you can wait until you're 21 to drink. I think in LA you can drink at 18, but as a consequence they don't have federal highway funding. I think in LA though you still can't drink in bars.

I'm pretty sure you can't drink under 18 in the military. I had a friend thrown out of West Point for doing just that. West Point might be different circumstances though.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Nakiro

You can drink in the military if you're under 21 and enlisted.

Or so my history teacher told me in high school. Never been involved, so I wouldn't know.

the age is 21.

Dont understand or approve but 21