two archer builds;cant decide on which to be

[Valgaav]

I have an rogue archer currently and I made two builds for him but I cant decide between the two

here are the skills at lvl 100 for each build
please give me your opinions

armor build:this build is based around having 130 armor skill to be able to wear plate armor by reducing my hiding skill and small amount oflocksmithing skills
armor use :130(1.3x)
combat manuever :65(.6x)
ranged weapons :202(2x)
ambush :202(2x)
physical fitness :101(1x)
dodging :202(2x)
arcane symbols :24(.2x)
spell research :4(.04x)
disarm trap :266(2.6x)
picking locks :298(3x)
stalking and hiding:250(2.5x)
perception :260(2.6x)
climbing :30(.3x)
swimming :20(.2x)
pickpocketing :198(2.0x)


next build
this build is with 45 armor I made this in anticipation of the armor changes to hiding and put more points into hiding and locksmithing

armor use :35(.3x)
combat manuever :65(.6x)
ranged weapons :202(2x)
ambush :202(2x)
physical fitness :101(1x)
dodging :202(2x)
arcane symbols :24(.2x)
spell research :4(.04x)
disarm traps :269(2.7x)
picking locks :298(3x)
stalking and hiding:294(2.9x)
perception :251(2.5x)
climbing :30(.3x)
swimming :20(.2x)
pickpocketing :198(2x)

please give me your feedback

[Edited on 6-17-2005 by Valgaav]


[Edited on 6-17-2005 by Valgaav]

[Edited on 6-17-2005 by Valgaav]

[Kitsun]

You don't need combat maneuvers as an archer because archery uses bolt DS, you don't need any kind of setup.

Sniping worked fine for me from Blighted to the end of Maaghara. Torso chain was perfect.

For Old Ta'Faendryl I had to completely revamp my style because everything was higher level and there's some damn perceptive creatures that swarm. I went from 3x hiding to 1x and dropped torso chain for fullplate. Also went up to 414 and 101.

[Valgaav]

i trained cm for surge so I can fire my longbow at 3 sec aimed and hiding(30 cm points)

and since I'm going to be hiding I needed shadow mastery as well(35 cm points)

then I figured I might as well go all the way since I needed roughly 65 cm points with just those two another 30 points I could get cutthroat ,I found it works with arrows as well, thinking it would be great against mage type critters or pc
so thats 95 cm points already left 6 more for anything extra maybe two ranks of weapon spec or a shot or two of mfire

[Kitsun]

The builds are actually close enough that there probably isn't much of a noticable difference until post 50.

By then, I'm sure you'll have a good enough feel for the capabilities and nudge the training into the area you want more.

The base RT for firing a bow is 3 seconds however... You are unable to reduce +1 for aiming and +1 for sniping. So any shot from the shadows, aimed is 5 seconds(minimum), regardless of strength bonus and bow type.

[Valgaav]

it is possible to get 3sec rt while hiding and aiming

for longbow base rt is 7
a giant man max natural str bonus is 40(-4rt)
which makes open firing with a longbow 3 rt

aiming would add 1 second rt
hiding would add another
so thats 2 rt
you need 20 str bonus

max surge gives you 20 str bonus

a giant with lvl 5 surge and 40 str bonus totals to 60str bonus taking off -6rt

longbow 7 second base
aiming 1 second
hiding 1 second

total of 9 seconds

giant with surge 60 str bonus
total of -6 rt

9-6=3rt hiding and aiming
7-4=3rt open firing

[Valgaav]

but what I really want is your opinion on the armor issue, is it worth taking hiding down from 3x to 2.5x?the locksmithing only goes down by like 3 or 4 training so its not a big loss

but I'm hearing you need 3x hiding and shadow mastery to stay hidden in otf or other post lvl90 hunting grounds

and do wearing plate severely hampers hiding even now?or only until the change happens?

[Izzy101]

Originally posted by Valgaav
it is possible to get 3sec rt while hiding and aiming

for longbow base rt is 7
a giant man max natural str bonus is 40(-4rt)
which makes open firing with a longbow 3 rt

aiming would add 1 second rt
hiding would add another
so thats 2 rt
you need 20 str bonus

max surge gives you 20 str bonus

a giant with lvl 5 surge and 40 str bonus totals to 60str bonus taking off -6rt

longbow 7 second base
aiming 1 second
hiding 1 second

total of 9 seconds

giant with surge 60 str bonus
total of -6 rt

9-6=3rt hiding and aiming
7-4=3rt open firing

The sniping RT is added AFTER your base speed is determined, so the minimum is 5 seconds when hiding/aiming, no matter how much strength.

[hectomaner]

first off. on the second build, why do you have 45 ranks of armor? what type of armor do you plan on wearing?

second off. why the fuck did you make ANOTHER thread about this? you already got one here.... http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=15469

[fallenSaint]

Yea he was still using the old system for armor ranks, weve confirmed 35 is all we need for brig.

Second fact ... I dunno that confused me as well.

[hectomaner]

i think its because he tried to get sassy when i said MAvA didnt exist, and you confirmed me being right, making him wrong

[Valgaav]

I posted the second thread because I figured this topic belonged in archer folder more then in the rogue folder but didnt know how to move it.

and the armor issue, I got all my info from tsoran spreadsheet so thats how I came to the conclusions I came to.Also when I started as a rogue awhile back pre-gsIV MAvA was still around

[fallenSaint]

Back to your question at hand I see it as kind of two answers...

If you plan on hunting prey that outlevels you, probably better off going for open archer with full plate ...

If you want to hunt on par or there in the area where your not as likely to be plucked from the shadows, brig and sniping is a proven method. I for one, seeing as your a rogue and have access to all the hiding ranks you can get opt for this method.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Izzy101
The sniping RT is added AFTER your base speed is determined, so the minimum is 5 seconds when hiding/aiming, no matter how much strength.


My wiz archer aims all his longbow shots and fires in three seconds everytime.

[AnticorRifling]

Because haste is your friend.

[Drew]

Para example:


>aim left eye
You're now aiming at the left eye of your target when using a ranged weapon, or while ambushing.
>get 1 arrow from my pouch
You remove a single bone-tipped arrow from a bundle of bone-tipped arrows.
>fire
You nock a bone-tipped arrow in your long bow.
Your invisibility fails.
You fire a bone-tipped arrow at a kobold!
AS: +201 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +62 = +269
... and hit for 70 points of damage!
Fine shot pierces jugular vein! The brain wonders where all its oxygen went, briefly.
The kobold crumples to a heap on the ground and dies.
The bone-tipped arrow sticks in a kobold's neck!
Roundtime: 3 sec.




No haste.

[Drew]

With haste.


Your invisibility fails.
You fire a bone-tipped arrow at a rolton!
AS: +181 vs DS: +33 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +87 = +260
... and hit for 89 points of damage!
Shot shatters shoulder and severs left arm!
The rolton bleats loudly as she slumps to the ground and cradles her wounded left foreleg.
The rolton lets out a final agonized bleat and dies.
The bone-tipped arrow sticks in a rolton's left arm!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.

[AnticorRifling]

You're a wizard using a weapon and you're not using haste? What are you british or retarded?

[Drew]

Ahem ::points two posts up::

[Celexei]

Was just curious where your perception ranks are as well on the second plan because there are inevitably times when you won't get hidin or won't be able to hide...personally, I'd say stick with the hiding with brig, if your efficient there then you won't have to worry about having that big ole armor to save you. Hiding is usually what a rogue's good for as well...but then again some people like challenges.

[Valgaav]

after some modification I've gotten my perception up to 250-260 range by removing some cm

[Celexei]

good deal ;)

[Valgaav]

but pretty much the real question is if 250(2.5x) hiding and full plate armor is better or 294(2.9x) hiding and brig is better

after been proven that you only need 35 ranks for brig now I've upped the brig armor plan to 294 hiding by dropping 10 armor ranks from 45

still if theres not much of a difference in 250 hiding(plate plan) and 294 hiding(brig plan)

I think it would be more beneficial goin in plate

but if the hiding is severely hampered by wearing plate the benefits might not be as well

[Edited on 6-17-2005 by Valgaav]