Schiavo missing half her brain/blind says autopsy

[Drew]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/15/schiavo_autopsy_shows_no_sign_of_trauma/


Salient quote: "The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

I kind of gained that from the, "UUUuruururuuugugugggghhhhh-guuuuhhhhhhhhrrruruuuughghghh Hhuuuhfhhghghgurrrr....urr."

:shrug:

[Drew]

Well, quite a few people at the time didn't.

[Leetahkin]

Hopefully the parents can find some closure now and stop pointing all blame and guilt at the 'husband'.

[Apotheosis]

I'm sure we'll see some conservative spin in about 30 minutes.

[Wezas]

During the seven-year legal battle, federal and state courts repeatedly rejected extraordinary attempts at intervention by Florida lawmakers, Gov. Jeb Bush, Congress and President Bush on behalf of her parents.

Just when I thought my faith in the courts system was gone - I'm reminded of things like this.

[DeV]

Good news for the less knowledgeable folk who actually thought even when a person's brain-dead they still feel things. :?:

[Edited on 6-15-2005 by DeV]

[Back]

The main argument will be: Hindsight is 20/20, just like with the Iraq war.

This is a good example of why science and religion not only do not mix, but are at odds.

[Tromp]

Man that pisses me off to know how much $ and time was wasted on this. Every politician who crossed the line should eat major crow! All for what!?!

I swear I'm moving Europe or Asia. This place is getting crazy.

Anyone catch the latest US News edition and the articles on China by the way. Sooo tempting.

Originally posted by Tromp
Man that pisses me off to know how much $ and time was wasted on this. Every politician who crossed the line should eat major crow! All for what!?!

I swear I'm moving Europe or Asia. This place is getting crazy.

Anyone catch the latest US News edition and the articles on China by the way. Sooo tempting.

Heh, please please, go to china your life will be so much better there :snickers:

[StrayRogue]

Wait 30 years. It will be a bigger economic super power than the US then.

[Hulkein]

Thanks to its ties with the US.

[ElanthianSiren]

First, it saddens me greatly that a human was allowed to exist at such a degraded/degenerate physical level for so long. IMO It's almost insulting to Terri in itself but to each their own.

I find it interesting that from her death, the parents hemmed and hawed about this autopsy even being performed -- an autopsy that now proves their case was a total study in attention whoring all along.

While I don't agree that Michael Schiavo is any saint and admit freely that he creeps me out, I hope that the right-wing medical community, so knee-deep in projecting the image of themselves as all-knowing god politicians, eats crow as someone else noted... for a long, long time. Religion + medical science ... bad idea.

-Melissa

edited for clarity.

[Edited on Wed, June th, 2005 by ElanthianSiren]

[Numbers]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Wait 30 years. It will be a bigger economic super power than the US then.

Perhaps, but an overwhelming majority of their population will still be living in filth and poverty. They're all practically slave labor at this point.

Hooray for Communism.

By the way, to keep this on topic:

"He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain in the near future."

Releasing pictures of your dead wifes brain to the public seems a bit wrong to me.

[Edited on 6-15-2005 by 3704558]

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Wait 30 years. It will be a bigger economic super power than the US then.

Unlikely, China is on the verge of an economic implosion, when you look at all their structural problems.

China was afforded extra time to fix the severe flaws in its economy afer Sept 11th and the Iraq War (which is winding down).

The US is again turning its attention to China as a threat, and will be doing whatever it can (starting with the currency issue) that China does not get to so easily ride on the coattails of the US economy.

[StrayRogue]

I agree. And I wasn't doing the old "AMERICA SUCKS" routine. Just pointing out a little nugget of info I've read. 30 years is a LONG time in politics and economics.

But yeah, I'm glad to see that we've proven how stupid all the religious garbage surrounding this case was. I too expect some useless and none-apologetic response from the Christian/Conservative folk though.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I agree. And I wasn't doing the old "AMERICA SUCKS" routine. Just pointing out a little nugget of info I've read. 30 years is a LONG time in politics and economics.

But yeah, I'm glad to see that we've proven how stupid all the religious garbage surrounding this case was. I too expect some useless and none-apologetic response from the Christian/Conservative folk though.

We'll see... I doubt anyone of them will offer any apologize... they were following their constituents' beliefs which probably should be expected of any politicians looking for electability.

Ideally, in future such instances of this case, those who want to pull the plug will be able to point to Shio's autopsy.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
The main argument will be: Hindsight is 20/20, just like with the Iraq war.

This is a good example of why science and religion not only do not mix, but are at odds.

I am probably the MOST non-religious man you "know" and I thought they did the right thing by giving her a "stay" from her execution. Religion played zero role in my decision.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tromp
Man that pisses me off to know how much $ and time was wasted on this. Every politician who crossed the line should eat major crow! All for what!?!

I swear I'm moving Europe or Asia. This place is getting crazy.

Anyone catch the latest US News edition and the articles on China by the way. Sooo tempting.

Do what you feel is right Mr. Baldwin. Don't let the country hit you in the ass on your way out.

:yes:

[CrystalTears]

I'm a hopeful person by nature. I usually expect the best and deny the worst. I was kinda hoping that she would be one of those people that they could keep around and test and try out certain things.

I realize that there wasn't anything really there, and that it very well could have been a waste of time for the parents to babysit, but that's what they wanted. However we will never know what Terri really wanted at this point, and it doesn't really matter.

May she rest in peace. I wish the parents and Michael would let it go now. I don't see why he needs to release any photos of her brain, nor should the parents continue to harp that she could have been helped. Obviously not. With the autopsy, there really is no way to disprove that she wasn't going to get better with any therapy. Let the woman rest, everyone did their best, and her death was the best thing for her in the end.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by 3704558

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Wait 30 years. It will be a bigger economic super power than the US then.

Perhaps, but an overwhelming majority of their population will still be living in filth and poverty. They're all practically slave labor at this point.

Hooray for Communism.

By the way, to keep this on topic:

"He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain in the near future."

Releasing pictures of your dead wifes brain to the public seems a bit wrong to me.

[Edited on 6-15-2005 by 3704558]

Why should you or anyone care? That is how this whole thing started. Sheesh!

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by 3704558
[quote]
"He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain in the near future."

Releasing pictures of your dead wifes brain to the public seems a bit wrong to me.

[Edited on 6-15-2005 by 3704558]

yay for conservative spin. Well, I hate to say it, but some people need to actually see proof, otherwise it will just be 'some big conspiracy by the media and liberals' blah blah blah.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Yswithe
yay for conservative spin.

If only the whole world was a no-spin zone, like Bill O'Reilly's show.

[Tromp]

[/quote]

Unlikely, China is on the verge of an economic implosion, when you look at all their structural problems.

China was afforded extra time to fix the severe flaws in its economy afer Sept 11th and the Iraq War (which is winding down).

The US is again turning its attention to China as a threat, and will be doing whatever it can (starting with the currency issue) that China does not get to so easily ride on the coattails of the US economy. [/quote]

I know this is off topic but please read the article in the most recent US News. I believe your statement is factless is unsubstantiated.

Remember who buys the bonds to pay for our budgets.

The US wants China to fix their currency only because it makes their products cheaper to US Citizens who gladly buy them.

Only reason why i bring this up is for us to realize we are not the only players in the world anymore.

Ok i'm done with that... sorry for going off topic.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
May she rest in peace. I wish the parents and Michael would let it go now. I don't see why he needs to release any photos of her brain,

He was villified, called a murderer, threatened with death, told he never loved his wife, and had a myriad of other insults thrown at him. Honestly, I see no problem with him sharing the pictures and saying "NOW DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?" Or maybe something a little more understated, but along the same lines.

Jorddyn

(The swearing/scream in this post was not directed at anyone in particular. It is just what I imagine I'd want to scream at the world after being painted as he was)

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

Originally posted by CrystalTears
May she rest in peace. I wish the parents and Michael would let it go now. I don't see why he needs to release any photos of her brain,

He was villified, called a murderer, threatened with death, told he never loved his wife, and had a myriad of other insults thrown at him. Honestly, I see no problem with him sharing the pictures and saying "NOW DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?" Or maybe something a little more understated, but along the same lines.

Jorddyn

(The swearing/scream in this post was not directed at anyone in particular. It is just what I imagine I'd want to scream at the world after being painted as he was)

WORD!

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Jorddyn
He was villified, called a murderer, threatened with death, told he never loved his wife, and had a myriad of other insults thrown at him. Honestly, I see no problem with him sharing the pictures and saying "NOW DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?" Or maybe something a little more understated, but along the same lines.

Jorddyn


Don't forget he was being accused of beating her by her parents.

[Delirium]

Just curious how showing pictures of a withered brain would prove he loved his wife and didnt beat her?

Im glad it showed she really was brain dead tho.

[CrystalTears]

That's basically what he's asking. Showing pictures of half a brain doesn't prove or disprove anything about his relationship with her. :shrug:

[Drew]

I don't buy into this "Conservative religious" types should eat crow. I'm probably the most conservative religious type on this board and I was arguing adamantly for her being taken off life-support against some of the people who are now saying I should eat crow.

Conservative and conservative religious types were nearly as divided as any group about Terri. A majority of conservative religious people supported her being removed from life support, the minority that wanted her alive was slightly larger than other groups (moderates, democrats, aetheists) but not much larger. This was an issue that split America across more than party lines.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
That's basically what he's asking. Showing pictures of half a brain doesn't prove or disprove anything about his relationship with her. :shrug:

What does it matter about their relationship at all?

Do you think this guy would go through years of abuse if he didn't love his wife?

[Keller]

""stay" from her execution." -- PB

ROFL!!!!!

Keeping someone plugged in and executing them are the same thing you extremely senile old man.

My wife even laughs at you.

[xtc]

I though this was an interesting site. It is the story of brain damaged and blind child. The Doctors told the parents to put him into an institution because he wouldn't get better and would remain blind and a vegetable for life.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sterling.htm

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
I kind of gained that from the, "UUUuruururuuugugugggghhhhh-guuuuhhhhhhhhrrruruuuughghghh Hhuuuhfhhghghgurrrr....urr."

:shrug:

Is it wrong that I laughed really really really long and hard at that???

omgimgoingtohell :no:

[Leetahkin]

Now I read this morning that the parents aren't believing the results of the autopsy.
Denial at it's best. They really need to get counselling.
So sad that they feel they have to drag this on forever. I bet they don't know how to live their life any other way, and will forever be striving to "right a wrong" in their eyes. They really need a new purpose, a new goal in life.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

Originally posted by CrystalTears
May she rest in peace. I wish the parents and Michael would let it go now. I don't see why he needs to release any photos of her brain,

He was villified, called a murderer, threatened with death, told he never loved his wife, and had a myriad of other insults thrown at him. Honestly, I see no problem with him sharing the pictures and saying "NOW DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?" Or maybe something a little more understated, but along the same lines.

Jorddyn

(The swearing/scream in this post was not directed at anyone in particular. It is just what I imagine I'd want to scream at the world after being painted as he was)

Before you ask the new Pope to Saint him.. I'll give him 6 months before he is out hocking a book or movie deal. I don't know the guy personally.. but we get TONS of coverage down here because it happened here. The guy comes across as a slimeball who is out for #1 and couldn't give a shit about others... least of all his brain damaged wife.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Keller
""stay" from her execution." -- PB

ROFL!!!!!

Keeping someone plugged in and executing them are the same thing you extremely senile old man.

My wife even laughs at you.

Send her over.. I'll stop her from laughing :P

[DeV]

If he makes a book or movie deal out of this fiascle then that's his thing. If he doesn't someone else is bound to.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV
If he makes a book or movie deal out of this fiascle then that's his thing. If he doesn't someone else is bound to.

It would certainly go towards my belief that he is all about taking care of himself. It wouldn't be out of character for him to exploit the situation to make himself a couple bucks.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DeV
If he makes a book or movie deal out of this fiascle then that's his thing. If he doesn't someone else is bound to.

It would certainly go towards my belief that he is all about taking care of himself. It wouldn't be out of character for him to exploit the situation to make himself a couple bucks.

Who are you to judge? I live in Tampa as well and doesn't mean anything.

In addition why do you even care? You were you one of the people outside his house everyday right?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
It wouldn't be out of character for him to exploit the situation to make himself a couple bucks. And the parents? What about the lawmakers/politicians/ministers who further exploited the sad state of affairs regarding his wife's condition? If he does seek financial gain from it, they're to blame as well. He didn't blow the situation up on his own.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DeV
If he makes a book or movie deal out of this fiascle then that's his thing. If he doesn't someone else is bound to.

It would certainly go towards my belief that he is all about taking care of himself. It wouldn't be out of character for him to exploit the situation to make himself a couple bucks.

Who are you to judge? I live in Tampa as well and doesn't mean anything.

In addition why do you even care? You were you one of the people outside his house everyday right?

Actually, I've stated that I really didn't/don't care too much. I simply see this guy as a slimeball who is out for himself. I find someone who sues to get money for the future care of his wife and then comes out with "My wife told me she never wants to be like this" to be someone I would never trust.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

He was villified, called a murderer, threatened with death, told he never loved his wife, and had a myriad of other insults thrown at him. Honestly, I see no problem with him sharing the pictures and saying "NOW DO YOU FUCKING GET IT?" Or maybe something a little more understated, but along the same lines.

Jorddyn


Before you ask the new Pope to Saint him.. I'll give him 6 months before he is out hocking a book or movie deal.

I'm hardly calling him a saint. In fact, my entire point in this is that he's very human, and has to be ready to scream thanks to all of the names he's been called.

He's just a normal guy who wound up in the same situation as thousands of other people have. The only difference is this time, the media made it a circus, and everyone in the country felt that he owed them an answer. The only people who he actually owed an answer to were his wife (there is evidence she agreed with him, but of course we'll never know for sure), the doctors (who agreed with him) and the court system (who agreed with him). He doesn't owe an answer to you, me, Joe Blow, George W., or the religious right any more than he owes an answer to the monkeys in the zoo.

The part that scares me most is the lengths that the government went to to keep her alive. If I wind up in her state, and am kept alive because people aren't following my wishes, people who didn't know me before I became a vegetable are petitioning to "save" me, or people who haven't examined me are claiming I can still lead a productive life, they'd better hope my brain isn't functioning, or I'll spend the duration coming up with new and interesting ways to haunt them after I die.

Jorddyn

[Back]

Its a joke when you think about how the government called an emergency session, including the president, over this yet they haven’t set a time or plan for withdrawl from Iraq.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, both the Schiavo case and a withdrawel plan in Iraq are pretty much the same in nature.

I wish someone just wheeled Schiavo out a window so everyone would stfu about this.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by ParkbanditActually, I've stated that I really didn't/don't care too much. I simply see this guy as a slimeball who is out for himself. I find someone who sues to get money for the future care of his wife and then comes out with "My wife told me she never wants to be like this" to be someone I would never trust.

1. Wife winds up pretty much a vegetable.
2. Husband sues.
3. Husband flies wife all over the country attempting to help her recover in some way.
4. Husband wins - a total of 1.3 million in two lawsuits. 1 million of that goes into a fund specifically for her care. He cannot touch that money.(1992)
5. Husband continues to try to help her recover.
6. Husband accepts that wife is vegetable. (1998)
7. Husband asks to have her feeding tube removed.

He didn't receive judgement, run over to the care facility, punch her in the face, and pull out her feeding tube. He spent SIX more years trying to find some sign of recovery.

Is it so hard to fathom that yes, she told him she didn't want to live in as a vegetable forever, but it still took him that long to accept that she was, in fact, a vegetable? Hell, her parents never did manage to accept it.

Jorddyn

[Back]

The only people who’ve exploited her are the Republicans.

[DCSL]

Jorddyn makes lots of good points.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
Its a joke when you think about how the government called an emergency session, including the president, over this yet they haven’t set a time or plan for withdrawl from Iraq.

You know shit about war as this post clearly illustrates.

You may be against our reasons for going there in the first place.. fine.. but to put a timetable on our withdrawal from this place now would be stupid and give Democracy there no chance of surviving.

[Ylena]

In addendum to Jorddyn's great points:

He was offered huge sums of money to walk away. I believe the last pile of cash on the table was $6 million. If his ONLY motivation was the money, why didn't he take it? I don't think that he'd net that much off of a book deal.

I've gone from pitying her parents to being actively angry at them. Let it go. You don't need to sue anybody else.

[Wezas]

I don't get it.

PB seems to function just fine with half a brain :smilegrin:

[Skirmisher]

I have to agree that the guy does not seem to have been looking for a "payday" so far.

I can totally understand why he is releasing all this information about the autopsy. He is basically in a no win situation here. Imagine what people would say if he did not? That it must have shown that she was really more aware of such and such and he is covering up the facts of his selfish nature. And because he does release it some will claim he is insensitive or even ghoulish. He really just can not win in this.

Medical bills and legal fees can EASILY climb into the millions for a long term and so heavily contested health care case.

I think the parents initialy understandable grief and tremendous sense of loss is now being exploited by groups who are feeding them only information they want to hear and that its disgusting and that they should let the poor family heal already.

[4a6c1]

Schiavo needs to stop being a pussy like hes trying to prove a point against the green. He needs to get an agent and do a book.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
Its a joke when you think about how the government called an emergency session, including the president, over this yet they haven’t set a time or plan for withdrawl from Iraq.

You know shit about war as this post clearly illustrates.

You may be against our reasons for going there in the first place.. fine.. but to put a timetable on our withdrawal from this place now would be stupid and give Democracy there no chance of surviving.

Sorry PB but yet again you've encouraged me to comment here...

Give me 3 examples of how democracy is suceeding in Iraq and I'll give you 4000 dead bodies why it won't. US will never pull out nor will true democracy work.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

You may be against our reasons for going there in the first place.. fine.. but to put a timetable on our withdrawal from this place now would be stupid and give Granted... I took it more as wondering where their priorities were lying at the time. The charade was maybe necessary at first, but ridiculous towards the end.

[Hulkein]

<< nor will true democracy work >>

Funny how many times throughout history that has been said about various nations.

The foolishness of those statements has been exposed as time goes by.

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by Hulkein]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ylena
In addendum to Jorddyn's great points:

He was offered huge sums of money to walk away. I believe the last pile of cash on the table was $6 million. If his ONLY motivation was the money, why didn't he take it? I don't think that he'd net that much off of a book deal.

I've gone from pitying her parents to being actively angry at them. Let it go. You don't need to sue anybody else.

His movie/book deal will garner him more I imagine.

And I agree with your views on his parents. I think both are at fault.. but I still don't buy that his motives were as honorable as some people here believe they were.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Hulkein
<< nor will true democracy work >>

Funny how many times throughout history that has been said about various nations.

The foolishness of those statements has been exposed as time goes by.

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by Hulkein]

Yeah Vietnam for one I believe.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. All the true democracies end up right wing dictatorships.

[Tromp]

think we're talking about two different things <laugh>. i may have misunderstood. anyway it is good conversation you guys. thanks. devils advocate is always fun.

[Keller]

Originally posted by xtc
I though this was an interesting site. It is the story of brain damaged and blind child. The Doctors told the parents to put him into an institution because he wouldn't get better and would remain blind and a vegetable for life.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sterling.htm

Also from the nutjobs that wasted this countries time/money on this case we bring you ...

Blind men see, lame men walk, water to wine, dead men alive: Two-Thousand Year old bullshit. (http://www.thebible.com/)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Hulkein
<< nor will true democracy work >>

Funny how many times throughout history that has been said about various nations.

The foolishness of those statements has been exposed as time goes by.

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by Hulkein]

I just saw a documentary on the History channel.. talking about the Germany, Italy and Japan rebuilding after WWII.

Kind of made me laugh that people still believe Democracy can't work in places where they didn't have it before.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Hulkein
<< nor will true democracy work >>

Funny how many times throughout history that has been said about various nations.

The foolishness of those statements has been exposed as time goes by.

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by Hulkein]

I just saw a documentary on the History channel.. talking about the Germany, Italy and Japan rebuilding after WWII.

Kind of made me laugh that people still believe Democracy can't work in places where they didn't have it before.

Each of those countries had a master plan to take over the world. Big difference from the US invading Iraq. Lot more support from the world perspective on the front end of WWII.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tromp

Each of those countries had a master plan to take over the world. Big difference from the US invading Iraq. Lot more support from the world perspective on the front end of WWII.


Originally posted by Parkbandit
You may be against our reasons for going there in the first place.. fine.. but to put a timetable on our withdrawal from this place now would be stupid and give Democracy there no chance of surviving.

[petroglyph]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I just saw a documentary on the History channel.. talking about the Germany, Italy and Japan rebuilding after WWII.

Kind of made me laugh that people still believe Democracy can't work in places where they didn't have it before.

Touching only on Japan, because I don't know nearly as much about the other countries, but Japan had a functioning democracy before the war.

I came close to doing my undergraduate thesis on why the Japanese occupation was a poor model for the situation in Iraq. I dropped the topic because there wasn't any scholarly disagreement with the point, and I didn't want to write something that was just a long string of "me, toos" to things other people had already said better than I could.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by xtc
I though this was an interesting site. It is the story of brain damaged and blind child. The Doctors told the parents to put him into an institution because he wouldn't get better and would remain blind and a vegetable for life.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/sterling.htm

Also from the nutjobs that wasted this countries time/money on this case we bring you ...

Blind men see, lame men walk, water to wine, dead men alive: Two-Thousand Year old bullshit. (http://www.thebible.com/)

It is simply her story of her child, who defied the Doctor's poor predictions. If you read it you will realise it is not a religious site

[Edited on 6-16-2005 by xtc]

[Warriorbird]

Still can't let it go, xtc?

[Hulkein]

He's just pointing out that in some cases a patient who is said to have no chance at recovery, can.

Showing proof that Schiavo couldn't have doesn't change the fact that in some cases it is different.

Still can't get over that?

[xtc]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Still can't let it go, xtc?

I didn't start this thread. The autopsy hasn't changed my mind one bit.

I still question Michael Schiavo's motives. A bone scan done in a 1991 by Dr Campbell Walker stated that Terry Schiavo has a history of trauma. He listed that Terry had injuries to her ribs, thoracic vertebrae, both ankles and both knees.

The autopsy report stated they found no evidence to support Michael Schiavo's assertion that Terry had an eating disorder which he said most likely caused her potassium deficiency which caused her cardiac arrest.

I posted the link to show that Doctor's aren't always right in their diagnosis and prognosis either before or after the fact.

[Caiylania]

I agree with DeV and Jordynn on this one. Over all, just wish this whole case and been better handled.

Torn over whether or not I'm glad it came to the public eye or not. I didn't enjoy the media circus one bit but I am glad that it made a lot of people think about how this can affect them and get living wills and other things sorted out. You just never know.