Unions?

[Kyra]

I was hired into my job of a week after 5 months of working thru the temp agency...the hospital loved me & made me an offer($$) I couldn't refuse to be on staff.

So...my actual hire in process was/is a total mess & I'm pretty sure I didn't get half the info hires off the street do because they already "know" me.

While wading thru a huge pile of papers @ HR I remember seeing something about local 79 which is the union at the hospital.

I know nothing about unions(except I remember someone said there are dues a long time ago?), too many years of nursing home work where unions were pushed far, far away...anyone care to fill me in until I get a few seconds to figure out who, where & what this is all about?

Thanks,
K.

I hate unions, but that's because they can legally take my job away from me :P

- Arkans

[Tsa`ah]

Unions are a double edged sword for members.

First there's the initiation fee, which can be very pricey depending on the union.

Then there are the "dues" that pay more for the administrative costs, political muscle, and the union's best interests than they do for the protection of the employees.

Then take into account contract negotiations. You would be amazed how very little say union members have in the union demands. Sure there is a ballot process, but who is actually deciding what demands are being voted on in any referendum? How do the members know the direction of the vote? There isn't any legal regulation of this process.

Consider the whole seniority aspect of a union. If you can survive in your job long enough (meaning you show up to work and follow the rules ... no matter your quality of work) you have dibs on moving up over anyone else. Which is fine if you have seniority ... qualified or not. What about the people who are more qualified, are better workers, and are a better quality of employee? You're SOL unless you take a job in management.

I believe at one time, long ago, unions were a necessity for some industries. I believe that there are some employers out there that deserve the union thorn. I believe that in some very rare cases that a union is the option. Unfortunately I believe that most unions today are no better than the worse possible employer. They exist solely in a state of self preservation at the expense of the members.

Now the pros to a union are that an employer has to be a little more justified in firing you, and they sort of watch dog the work loads and hours … unless of course they’re more cozy with the employer than the members. Then they’re just laughing at the idiots that pour money into their coffers for the illusion of protection.

I'll never join, or take a job, that involves a union ... no matter the pay.

Woah. You're doing a great service, there.

The entire planet tends to disrespect the elderly.

Try not to work with stage 3 dementia patients if you haven't yet, or even if you have, it's depressing no matter how professional you are.

If I relied on a union contract to secure my job as a nurse, I'd hit myself repetitively over the head with a shovel of some sorts.

That being said, no one is going to fire or give cuts to a charge nurse or higher up. Do a good job and you'll be an APRN before you know it. WORK PATIENT CONTACT AS MUCH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

That's about it I think :coffee:

[Kyra]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
First there's the initiation fee, which can be very pricey depending on the union.

Then there are the "dues" that pay more for the administrative costs, political muscle, and the union's best interests than they do for the protection of the employees.

Then take into account contract negotiations. You would be amazed how very little say union members have in the union demands. Sure there is a ballot process, but who is actually deciding what demands are being voted on in any referendum? How do the members know the direction of the vote? There isn't any legal regulation of this process.

Consider the whole seniority aspect of a union.

Now the pros to a union are that an employer has to be a little more justified in firing you, and they sort of watch dog the work loads and hours … unless of course they’re more cozy with the employer than the members. Then they’re just laughing at the idiots that pour money into their coffers for the illusion of protection.


Wow, I wonder if they start hacking $$ out of my check immediately or not :?: I'll have to check into it all Monday should I find time in the chaos of work.

I don't have to really worry about the moving up the ladder problem, in my position at the hospital there is no upward movement unless I go back to school for a few more years(not an option at this point in time).

Thank you for the input! Hope others have some also.

Arkans, sorry to hear about the crap the union is giving you @ your work...red-tape is the worst.

K.

[Kyra]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Woah. You're doing a great service, there.

The entire planet tends to disrespect the elderly.

Try not to work with stage 3 dementia patients if you haven't yet, or even if you have, it's depressing no matter how professional you are.


Heh, yeah I have about 12 years in working with Dementia patients, I actually loved most of it but after working at the hospital I would never go back to it.

Right now I'm on a post surg & general med/surg floor...love the fast pace, I just hope the whole union fees & such are so much I wind up working more just to pay them & keep up with bills.

K.

[peam]

Kyra, you may want to check into restricted union membership.

With the union I'm in, United Transportation Union, you can elect to have a restricted membership, which costs significantly less, but results in 'limited' union protection.

From my perspective, unions basically exist to keep fuckups in their job. I don't intend on fucking up, so I'll put in as little as I can.

I'll try to explain this better tomorrow, when I'm not drunk.

[Miss X]

I don't know about the US, but if you're a nurse in the UK you are foolish not to join a union. I actually joined the RCN and Unison because if the shit hits the fan with in a hospital I'm working in, I want the back up.

[fallenSaint]

I totally despise working under a union and will do my best to never work under one again. Last job I had that was under one the union sucessfully prevented me from ever recieveing a raise for 2.5yrs and I finally quit because of it.

[Ilvane]

With medical workers a union is a good thing. It can keep you from having to work in bad conditions, along with being over worked, etc..

It also does a bit to protecting jobs.

I worked in HR at a hospital once, and let me tell you, Union workers were negotiated with, with much more seriousness because they had the Union backing.

-A

[Gan]

Unions in this area are rare and only in transportation or industrial areas. Unions have tried to get into the healthcare here (through the EVS workers) and failed. The EVS employees arent interested and the nurses here are a powerful enough lobby without a union that any suggestion of going that direction gets laughed out of the building.

While necessary to protect the workers in the early 1900's, I dont see unions as beneficial or productive in todays marketplace thanks to regulatory agencies such as OSHA and the like. In fact Unions can be given the credit for driving some companies out of business entirely.

I'll never take a union job and I extremely dislike dealing with union reps in places where I consult.

[Back]

My Dad is in the Musicians Union, and from what I can tell, its really saved his ass. Being self-employed, it has given him healthcare, they keep tabs on his royalties and send him checks when they are due, and has helped him get work.

I realize being a musician is a lot different than being a railroad or healthcare employee. For the freelancer so to speak, in my opinion, its an awesome thing. Not having been in a union myself because I’ve been working steady since I got out of high school, thats the best I can offer. There is a Graphic Arts Union I should check out, but haven’t needed to.

[Apotheosis]

Unions used to be necessary, now they're a major contributor to fucking up our economy.

[Skirmisher]

Yes, I have found that Unions do vary tremendously.

In my opinion when I was working part time at a grocery store and still was required to pay union dues though part timers got about no benefit at all from belongings, it seemed like a great deal for the union coffers, not so great for me.

My brother in law is a teacher, and their union is awsome as is my sister's who is a nurse. She works in a smaller hospital now and was disheartened to see the conditions there when she first started, but once they voted for the union, the pay scale and raise shcedule improved to a good degree.

[Back]

If I’m not mistaken, the whole idea of a union is to protect the workers rights. Its so business owners can’t make you work 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, for minimum wage with no health care. If you don’t think employers would if they could, then you need a serious reality check. But, with all things involving humans, ideals get distorted and corruption ensues. So now it seems its more of a case by case basis on which unions are good or bad.

[Gan]

Business owners cant make you work 20 hours a day because its against the law. Union officials do not enforce that law, only the government can. Unions are merely along for the ride now.

Unions were necessary until laws were passed for the protection of workers in the US industry. Unions deserve the credit for the initial protection and were nessary BACK THEN.

They are not necessary now, in my opinion.

[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Ganalon]

[Warriorbird]

You have to take each as they come. Examine the situation.... if you make more/get more benefits, might be worth it. If it's largely superfluous, don't worry about it.

[Kyra]

Okay, another really stupid question but I'm kind of unsure from the responses I've read...are unions usually an optional thing or am I probably stuck with it because I work there?

Would there be some kind of paperwork I have to sign to officially be "in" the union?

I hate waiting & answers are 2 & a half days away... again, thanks for all the input everyone!!

K.

[Warriorbird]

Yes. Be sure you have all the costs/benefits/salary differences explained to you beforehand however. Union entrance can be as dodgy and as important as a salary negotiation.

[Gan]

I believe it all depends on the contract that the Union has with your employer. Some places have mandatory enrollment, others do not. I worked in a grocery store for a summer my freshman year in college (never again) and was treated like crap because the union membership was voluntary and I chose not to join.

Make sure you ask your HR rep for all of the information available regarding their union involvement/contract.

You might also do some research on the union that is in your employer (internet research etc.) and see if you can find any info there while you are waiting on the official word.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Miss X
I don't know about the US, but if you're a nurse in the UK you are foolish not to join a union. I actually joined the RCN and Unison because if the shit hits the fan with in a hospital I'm working in, I want the back up.

I would say there are probably some very distinct differences between US and UK unions. Both probably differ as much as a comparison between health care systems.

I will agree that it really depends on the union. Most of my experience has been in dealing with unionized customers, or observations in my local area.

Roughly 10 years ago a successful dairy company went out of business due to union demands that didn't fall in line with employee sentiment. The overall consensus between employees was a desire to not be required to work an additional 4 hours (making it a 14 hour shift) with less than an hours notice. They were happy with their pay (15.50 entry 10 years ago) and benefits. It was just the sudden and often requirement that they stay over to meet last minute quota changes. The employees wanted another 10 people hired in order to relieve the standing work force.

The union went to bat for them. Instead of demanding the one change in the contract, they omitted it and demanded another 5 dollars an hour to compensate for the increased demand. Viva caved in the presence of a strike threat and moved operations 3 months later.

Had the union actually demanded a limit on overages and an expansion in the work force ... 230 something people would still be employed in those jobs today.

I watched one of three factories in my home town close up (the remaining two fell within 4 years of the first) because the union representation forced a strike when the factory didn't meet the union demands ... despite the majority opinion amongst the employees.

As a teenager, my home town population was around four thousand with well over half working locally. Today it is twelve hundred with less than 100 people working locally. One union literally sunk a small town.

[Jazuela]

Certain states grant employees the right to opt out of union membership. This is something the AFL-CIO won't tell you when you get hired. They don't want you to know, and will in fact deny it if you bring it up.

Check into your state's general statutes regarding unions, or your state's labor department for legislature on this topic.

If you DO have an "at will" employment state, then you have the right to NOT be in a union even if your company is a union shop. You will STILL have to kick back some of your pay to the union, but it will be to cover ONLY administration costs, and nothing else.

For example: Union Worker Sue pays $5.00 per week for union dues. She gets the usual administration costs, plus labor protection, plus bail assurity (if she's arrested, automatic bail bond), plus a $10,000 term life insurance policy through the union.

Non-union Worker Joe pays only $3.00 per week for union dues. He gets the same guarantees of employment that Sue gets according to the state and federal law, but is not subject to the same rights and responsibilities he would get in ADDITION to those, if he was a union member. He also doesn't get bail posted if he's arrested, and he loses out on the life insurance policy.

The Union Worker would also be -required- to strike, if there's no "no-strike" clause in the contract and the union votes to strike. That means no pay until the strike's over.

The Non-Union worker doesn't have to refuse to work, though he'll be labelled a scab and probably have rocks thrown at his car by picketers. But he'll be working and earning a paycheck while the strikers stand out in 20-degree weather or sitting home being depressed for a month or two.

The Union worker can NOT collect unemployment while his union is on strike. The Non-Union worker doesn't need to collect unemployment because no one is ordering him to not work.

In my experience with unions, those are the most significant differences between working for one and not working for one. And as I said, each state decides whether or not you can work "at will" or if you must join the union in a union shop. This is not up to the Union, or the place of employment. It is up to the state legislature.

[longshot]

In my limited experience...

United Steel Workers = reasonable

United Auto Workers = Shit. Not just normal shit, but runny brown mist peppered with chunks of corn.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
United Auto Workers = Shit. Not just normal shit, but runny brown mist peppered with chunks of corn.

I feel your pain.