How do you deal with an alcoholic?

[Apotheosis]

Last night I ran into a friend that I had a falling out with about 5 - 6 months ago (maybe more, it was roughly last september). For those of you who have read any previous posts of mine regarding this issue, it was a friend who's younger brother had killed himself last august

Anyway, and I may have mentioned this to some of you before, but basically this is someone I grew up with, and we had alot of good times together. His family was/is like a second family to me.


Anyway, we had a conversation, and basically things are cool between us, but in the time since his brother had killed himself, his drinking has been increasing and his overall self-destructive behavior is escalating. You can tell something not good in his life is going to happen soon.

I have no idea how to deal with this situation. This family lost a child, and they don't deserve to lose another one (although I still think their family dynamics are screwy, in an unhealthy way, i need to suspend judgement).

He's on the edge of losing his job, killing a family and/or himself (in a driving scenario), or doing something really bad that may send him to prison for a long time.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Yswithe]

[Miss X]

Give them a CAGE and AUDIT assessment to check the type of dependency and then refer them to a drug and alcohol service. That's if you're me though. ;)

[4a6c1]

K. I have this thing I do. It helps. We are going to do math.

Measure the importance of these relationships to you right now and how big of a thing you expect these people would be in your future the way they are now (Without them changing. because they wont change....and you shouldnt try to make them.)

Try to give the 'importance' and the 'future importance' numbers. Are they big numbers?

Now measure effort. Try to rate the amount of time you spend mucking up this persons life now. Then rate what you expect to be future cleanup sessions for said person. Be honest with yourself.

Deciding right now how much of this your willing to deal with is important. Because it will drain you. And you cant change them.

~R. Posting hungover....The irony.

[hectomaner]

tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by hectomaner
tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

last time nature ran its course in this family, the youngest son (of two) killed himself.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner
tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

last time nature ran its course in this family, the youngest son (of two) killed himself.

and if it was acoholism/addiction related, i doubt there was anything anyone could have done to stop it.

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by hectomaner

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner
tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

last time nature ran its course in this family, the youngest son (of two) killed himself.

and if it was acoholism/addiction related, i doubt there was anything anyone could have done to stop it.

sometimes I think that's what people say to avoid responsibility, or reduce any blame they may share for the persons problems.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner
tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

last time nature ran its course in this family, the youngest son (of two) killed himself.

and if it was acoholism/addiction related, i doubt there was anything anyone could have done to stop it.

sometimes I think that's what people say to avoid responsibility, or reduce any blame they may share for the persons problems.

no, its what people that have dealt with this exact same thing every day say.

thing is, if he was an alcoholic, or an addict, there is nothing ANYONE could have done to make him stop. only he could do it himself, and only if he truely wanted it. same goes for his brother who is alive. trust me, i know, it sucks bad, but doesnt change the fact that it is true. i've lost well over 60 friends do this disease in the past 4 years, and the only thing i could have done to help anyone of them (not saying i didnt, just that its the only thing one can really do) is express my feelings in what they are doing, and share with them how i was in their same boat, and what happened while i was in it, and how i turned it around, and let them know i was there if they ever reached out.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by hectomaner]

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by hectomaner

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by hectomaner
tell him you are concerned, and how you feel about what hes doing, etc. make sure to let him know if he needs help you are there if he needs it (if you are willing to help that is). then back off. let him do his thing. its all you can do, and there is no point in trying to intervene and getting all hurt and what not when it doesnt work. sometimes nature needs to run its course

last time nature ran its course in this family, the youngest son (of two) killed himself.

and if it was acoholism/addiction related, i doubt there was anything anyone could have done to stop it.

sometimes I think that's what people say to avoid responsibility, or reduce any blame they may share for the persons problems.

no, its what people that have dealt with this exact same thing every day for the past 4 years.

thing is, if he was an alcoholic, or an addict, there is nothing ANYONE could have done to make him stop. only he could do it himself, and only if he truely wanted it. same goes for his brother who is alive. trust me, i know, it sucks bad, but doesnt change the fact that it is true. i've lost well over 60 friends do this disease in the past 4 years, and the only thing i could have done to help anyone of them (not saying i didnt, just that its the only thing one can really do) is express my feelings in what they are doing, and share with them how i was in their same boat, and what happened while i was in it, and how i turned it around, and let them know i was there if they ever reached out.

yeah, that makes the most sense to me, honestly. It just seems like he cashed in or is getting ready to cash in the chips.

He's also been talking about doing something really stupid on his way out, like you know, something really bad, like, injuring other people bad.

I tend to be more concerned about the people he's going to effect then him. I just don't want to be caught in the crossfire, figuratively speaking.

[Czeska]

I had a friend (best friends from 2nd grade through high school) who was pretty, smart (academically), came from a well off (not rich, but comfortable) family.

She got into drugs in college. Primarily cocaine. At this point, I stopped associating with her. She went to a different school, and I wasn't interested in that scene.
Well, I saw her a few years ago, she'd been in rehab, and was doing better, supposedly. A week after that, her boyfriend called to tell me she wasn't returning my calls or emails, cause he'd sent her back to live with her parents after catching her doing coke again. I didnt get back in touch at this point.

A year later, when I had my daughter, she left a message on my voice mail. She wanted to get together and see us, meet my kid, and bring her a gift. I agonized over it. I "knew I could help". I felt bad for not "being there to do something" Then I put my child as my priority (absolute priority) and decided I wasn't exposing her to this woman. It was the right choice. After another bout in rehab, and her family doing everything they could, she siezed for 11 days in the ICU and died at 32 years old.

If you want to help, accept the fact you can't do it if they won't. I'm all for expressing concern, sometimes that's what it takes. But don't hold yourself responsible for him, or his family. Do JihnasSpirit's math.

[Apotheosis]

I won't, I'm basically just trying to rationalize doing whatever I am about to do so I don't feel responsible when this person explodes.

[Shari]

Sadly, I'd have to follow what Jihna and Czeska are saying. Most addicts only stop when they themselves make the choice. Tell him you're concerened and if he wants help you're there for him. I gave up trying to help my dad with his alcoholism, and my heart used to ache when my sister tried doing all the same attempts at making him quit. He's improved somewhat on his own, and is just destructive to himself instead of others around him. If he wants to travel that path, there is nothing I can do to stop him.

Good luck with your friend.

[Delirium]

Id sit down with the friend and be upfront and suggest they go see a psychologist so he can learn to deal with his brothers death better. If he refuses i think the best thing to do is to at the very least emotionally seperate yourself from him. Even if he reacts badly at first there is still hope. I know for me the closer someone comes to what i feel are my biggest problems the more angry im going to be at first. With time and thought tho ill usually come to a similar conclusion.

Also if you truly believe he is a threat to himself or others, and he/they are in imediate danger you can call the police/hospital and have a 72 hour hold at the psych ward put on if the intake at the hospital agrees with you.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Yswithe
I won't, I'm basically just trying to rationalize doing whatever I am about to do so I don't feel responsible when this person explodes.

Hon, you have nothing to rationalize. This is not your fault, and it is not your responsibility. There's really nothing that can be done for your friend unless, and until, he decides to do something for himself.

You can tell him how you feel, and that you are concerned for him. You can let him know that you're there to support him if he will make the effort to get help. Other than that, it's up to him. Sad, but true. :(

[Warriorbird]

You don't.

[Apotheosis]

yeah, i'm trying hard to not liken the results of my inaction to not taking away the keys from a drunk when they go out to drive.

[HarmNone]

What action would you propose to take? I can't think of any action you, singularly, could take that would change anything for your friend, short of tying him up and burying him in the barn. If he's going to throw his life away, there's little you can do to stop him. So, it's not inaction on your part. Instead, it's lack of the ability to act to save him from himself. You CAN'T do it. It has to come from him.

[Apotheosis]

Ok, well, it sounds like since i've been out of the "circle" for so long, a bunch of people have already confronted him, he's about to lose his job, and honestly, i could care less about what happens to him.

I am just concerned for the people he will inadvertantly effect, you know, like, while he drives home from the bar drunk or something, and hits a car and kills a family. that's all.

the only thing I could think of doing is hiding in the parking lot of a bar he drinks at and call the cops when I see him get behind the wheel.. not sure if it could do anything..

[Edited on 6-9-2005 by Yswithe]

[HarmNone]

I hear you, Yswithe. So often, it's the innocent who pay the biggest price when this kind of thing happens. Hopefully, his friends confronting him and losing his job will wake this guy up to what's happening to his life. If not, he's doomed and we can only hope he doesn't drag others down with him. :(

[Back]

And there you have the insidiousness of the condition. While seemingly an individual’s dilemma, it will affect those around them even while not intended. You have been drawn in to this man’s downward spiral, even though you both never would have suspected it.

It reminds me of friends past, those I’ve lost, some still struggling... like HM says, its up to them. If they are close, offer the encouragement, be tough with the love and let them know how it affects you, but ultimately it is their own choice and you can’t do much more than encourage them while protecting yourself.

[HarmNone]

If you see him getting into a car, and you know he's drunk, there's not a thing wrong with letting the cops know there's a potential killer on the loose, in my opinion.

[Shari]

If you do follow him from the bar, make sure you know his license plate number and the kind of car it is. If you don't have that info usually they wont give a shit. I called the cops on my dad after he left the house shiftfaced and because I didn't know his liscence number, they were like, "Thanks, we'll keep an eye out for him."

[Apotheosis]

yeah, got that, just the only thing I can think of doing, hopefully it'll send a wakeup call (although he's had tons of them, as far as I'm concerned.

[HarmNone]

If it does nothing else, it will keep him off the road that one time, hon. That might mean someone's life is saved.