Lactivism: Public Breast Feeding Yes or No

[Back]

Should women be allowed to breast feed in public?

`Lactivists' nursing anger, Walters' remark on breast-feeding sparks moms' protest at ABC (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0506070206jun07,1,343735.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed)

From the article:

Prodded by mothers tired of being asked to adjourn to a bathroom while nursing in a public space, six states have recently passed laws giving a woman the right to breast-feed wherever she "is otherwise authorized to be."

An Ohio bill saying a woman is "entitled to breast-feed her baby in any place of public accommodation" passed the Legislature last month over the objection of one representative who wanted to exempt businesses from liability for accidents caused by "spillage."

"I really don't know any women who `spill,"' said Lisa Wilson, mother of a 4-month-old in Fairview Park, Ohio, who helped organize a nurse-in at a local deli to support the bill.

Trying for federal law Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) hosted a nurse-in on the Capitol's Cannon Terrace last month as she reintroduced federal legislation to amend the Civil Rights Act to protect women from employment discrimination for using a breast pump or feeding babies during breaks.

Nursing mothers are pressuring businesses too. Burger King has declared they are welcome. Starbucks, the target of a letter-writing campaign that asked "What's more natural than coffee and milk?" also has.

So whats up? Is this crazy or a good idea? If women aren’t allowed to breast feed in restaurants anymore, my best line of me pointing at the baby and saying, “I’ll have what he’s having” will never be able to be used again. :(

[edit to format quote for easier reading]

[Edited on 6-7-2005 by Backlash]

[Sean of the Thread]

Mmmm Boobies.

(tastes like choco milk =P)

[Edited on 6-7-2005 by Xyelin]

[Edaarin]

Only if I'm allowed to piss in public.

The white whale in my nightmares isn't Moby Dick...it's the fat woman I saw in Starbucks blinding the rest of us while smothering that poor toddler.

:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

- Arkans

A woman's body/breasts are sacred and must be consecrated as so until I give her teh pearl necklace :(

[Edaarin]

You know what? My first post was callous and inconsiderate.

I'd like to amend it by stating that in certain cases public breast feeding would be acceptable, but the woman must be certified and have proof of rating at least 7.5 on HotorNot.com

[Leetahkin]

I say yes to breastfeeding in public, as long as the mother is doing so discreetly. Keep everything covered, and there's no problem.

[Nieninque]

I cant believe people still have a problem with breastfeeding.

[Edited on 7-6-05 by Nieninque]

Man, I remember I saw this bus of a woman breast feeding and I almost threw up in my mouth. It was terrible. UP FOR WHIPPING MY DICK OUT IN PUBLIC AND PISSING ALL OVER THE PLACE!

- Arkans

[Edaarin]

I have no problem with breastfeeding in and of itself.

There are some things that you do with consideration to the privacy of other people. Generally, you don't see guys wanking at a restaurant table.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Only if I'm allowed to piss in public.This already happens. It's legality is debatable.

But seriously, I don't see anything wrong with it. The few instances I have seen women breast-feed in public it's always appeared discreet.

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by DeV
This already happens. It's legality is debatable.
[/quote]

But I don't do it while SOBER.

As an aside, if any of you are ever close to the Corner in Downtown Charlottesville, avoid the benches outside the Wachovia bench...

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
Man, I remember I saw this bus of a woman breast feeding and I almost threw up in my mouth. It was terrible. UP FOR WHIPPING MY DICK OUT IN PUBLIC AND PISSING ALL OVER THE PLACE!

- Arkans Because breast feeding a baby is comparable to whipping your dick out in public and pissing all over the place.

I take it you were not a breast fed baby and/or haven't suckled a breast in some time?

[Vixen]

I plan to breastfeed in approx 3... ::paces furiously:: days, when my son is supposed to arrive. That said though, I personally would not be comfortable doing it in a public place. I do get that there are some times when you are where you are, and you have to feed the baby, and in those instances, I have seen mothers keep themselves and their baby covered discreetly with a blanket, which I thought was fine. Public bathrooms arent exactly conducive to sitting and breastfeeding in my opinion, though many places are implementing mothers areas in bathrooms to do just that.

Or in a Paris subway. When I was there some guy just whipped it out and helped himself to the wall. I was like.. GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Arkans

Originally posted by Nieninque
I cant believe people still have a problem with breatfeeding.

I can't believe people still have a problem with spelling.


Originally posted by Arkans
Man, I remember I saw this bus of a woman breast feeding and I almost threw up in my mouth. It was terrible. UP FOR WHIPPING MY DICK OUT IN PUBLIC AND PISSING ALL OVER THE PLACE!

- Arkans

You couldn't whip it out if you were buck-naked, were C.E.O. of Levitra and were afflicted with forward-thrusting pelvic convulsions.

Edited to Add: I don't even understand why there is a debate though. A woman's body is holy, why pollute it with Earthly evils?

[Edited on 6-7-2005 by Stanley Burrell]

[Toxicvixen]

I personally wouldn't do it, (mainly because I don't have children yet) but hey too each her own! If the lady wants to breast feed her child I will try my best not to stare, but frankly I don't care. :D

So since Stainley is the reject of the boards he's going to take on an Xcalibur like posting style? WTF, seriously, is this the trend of all the losers?

- Arkans

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Only if I'm allowed to piss in public.

The white whale in my nightmares isn't Moby Dick...it's the fat woman I saw in Starbucks blinding the rest of us while smothering that poor toddler.

If things that visually offend become against the law, many people wouldn't be allowed out in public.

The idea that there is anything wrong with breast feeding when the child is hungry (regardless of where a woman might be) is as archaic as saying women that are on their period are not allowed to pray.

Now of course they should be discreet. But then people on cell phones shouldn't make a habit of screaming into them when they're out in public. There's really no way to govern something like this.

There is nothing wrong with ugly people being forced to pay an ugly tax or wear masks.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Arkans
So since Stainley is the reject of the boards he's going to take on an Xcalibur like posting style? WTF, seriously, is this the trend of all the losers?

- Arkans

lol u suck dicks,

i am typing this w/ 1 hand lololololol

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jadewolff
There's really no way to govern something like this. Not unless businesses are willing to make accomodations for women who need to breast feed. Until that happens, I'm with you. I just don't see women being forced to not feed their hungry child in public given the need.

Always are pumps and bottles.

- Arkans

[Leetahkin]

I think restrooms should have a sitting area off to the side to accomodate this. I've seen them in restrooms before, but not often.

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Arkans
Always are pumps and bottles.

- Arkans

Sometimes, there's also a need to feed on the mother's side too (either that or stains on the shirt...) It's just the way a woman's body works.

Seriously though, I'm lucky in that any woman I've seen breast feeding in public has always been discreet about it. Some people think it shouldn't be allowed because of the idea that a breast is bare underneath a blanket or jacket. Not because anything has actually been shown. Those people suck.

[Vixen]

Pumps are okay, but not always practical to pump enough when you are going to be out for a while. Also, and I'm no expert as I havnt done this before... but my pediatrician advised me not to use a bottle, even with breastmilk, for a while until the baby gets the hang of nursing, because the artificial nipple on a bottle can confuse them and make it harder to go back to breast.
Luckily, there are a couple of public places here where I live, that have special sitting areas for mothers in their public restrooms for this purpose

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
Always are pumps and bottles.

- Arkans Or receiving and breastfeeding blankets.

It's already legal to breast feed in public anywhere in the US. I take it most women are already discreet about it since you don't hear about this in a negative light very often.

[Miss X]

I'd be perfectly happy breastfeeding in public, and I have no issue with any woman doing it. It's natural and if a baby needs a feed, I'm not going to be the asshole that tries to prevent it.

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by Miss X
It's natural and if a baby needs a feed, I'm not going to be the asshole that tries to prevent it.

Exactly. I think motherhood is a beautiful thing and it pisses me off that people try to turn even that into something dirty (not referring to any of the joking comments made on this thread).

[Apotheosis]

no problem with it, but the key word is BE discreet,

kthx

[xtc]

No.....hell no.

I think breast feeding at least for the first few months is great, however there has to be some decorum in society. Somethings are best done in private.

Motherhood will be beautiful the second watching a woman giving birth isn't stomach turning.

- Arkans

[Atlanteax]

I'm with Edarrin in that...

If Cindy Crawford wants to breastfeed in public... more power to her... :smilegrin:

If Big Bertha wants to... HELL NO! :weird:

[Nieninque]

For those that think breastfeeding is akin to taking a piss, I am assuming you dont eat your food in the toilet.
Why the fuck should babies. Breastfeeding isnt a toileting function, its a feeding function. People who see it as anything else are just plain weird.

I wouldnt want to eat in a toilet, nor would I want to be banninated from eating in public. Why should babies?

[Edaarin]

There are bathrooms for a reason, use them plz.

[Back]

People don’t usually eat in bathrooms as Nien said.

What I don’t get is how anyone can equate a breast and feeding a baby with a dick and taking a piss. :?:

[Edaarin]

Natural body functions involving things that result in an R rating in movies.

Czeska thinks babies are ice cream, though

[DeV]

Originally posted by Backlash
What I don’t get is how anyone can equate a breast and feeding a baby with a dick and taking a piss. :?: I know, right.

Everyone starts out as a baby and why any man or woman would advocate a baby be breastfed in a bathroom is beyond me.

What the hell is so weird about it?

[Kel]

I don't understand people having a problem with it in the first place.

Of course, be discreet. I've never seen anyone breastfeeding in public who wasn't. (If cell phone users were a fraction as discreet and considerate as women who are breastfeeding, I wouldn't want to rip their phones from their hands, hoping to take some ear along for the ride....but, I digress.)

If folks are so against public breastfeeding we should make decent accomodations for it to be done privately. Infants need feeding, and not always at the most convenient moment. And no, telling a mother she can stand in some corner of a disgusting public bathroom to feed her infant is not my idea of an accomodation.

Kel

[Sean of the Thread]

No honestly.. I love to breast feed.

[Edaarin]

Has anyone ever seen that episode of Married with Children where the women demonstrate in Al's shoe store when he won't let them breast feed?

That whole two-part episode (except the end) sums up nicely my objections.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin
I love to breast feed. Hence my bias.

[KymberlynX]

I think women should be allowed to breastfeed in public as long as they are discreet about it and they are in fact, breastfeeding BABIES.

Just having gone through that myself, it would be nice if more places offered an area where mothers could breastfeed in private. It isn't always easy to be discreet when the wind decides to kick in, or the kid decides it would be nice to pull the blanket off of you while they are eating. :rolleyes:

I saw something on 60 minutes or Dateline a while back where some mothers were still breastfeeding children around the age of 7...IN PUBLIC!!! :nono:

[4a6c1]

God thats nasty. Ew, ew, ew, ew.

I can watch open heart surgery but I cant watch breastfeeding. It makes me twitch.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Backlash
Should women be allowed to breast feed in public?

Yes; that's not to say anyone's required to do it, but I find the idea of carting a woman off to prison for indecent exposure because she fed her newborn pretty friggin ridiculous in a country where we're always bitching that parents don't take care of their own kids etc etc etc.

-Melissa

[Trinitis]

Ahmm..

I'm a fan of the boobies. I'd suck on boobies in public now, if I could find a woman willing to share. :saint:

[Toxicvixen]

I don't think you count as an infant Addy. :smilegrin:

[Kel]

Originally posted by KymberlynX
I saw something on 60 minutes or Dateline a while back where some mothers were still breastfeeding children around the age of 7...IN PUBLIC!!! :nono:

Heard a story not long ago of a kid who was still breastfeeding, and who complained to his mother about the taste of the milk.

I understand individual and cultural differences....YMMV...and all that. I wouldn't want to live in a world where that wasn't the case. But my own opinion: If the kid is old enough to bitch about the quality of the milk, s/he's old enough for a knife and fork, or at least a carton of lactaid, for cryin out loud.

[AnticorRifling]

If babies are allowed to drink straight from the tap in public we all should!

[Snapp]

:whocares: It's a natural way to feed babies. It's not like the women will be walking around with their boobies shooting milk all over everyone. Why does it matter?

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Snapp
:whocares: It's a natural way to feed babies. It's not like the women will be walking around with their boobies shooting milk all over everyone. Why does it matter?

I'm not going to lie if I had that ability I would be squirt gunning my co-workers while they were on the phone. Then I'd yell "THAT'S HOW I ROLL!" and I'd run off.

Which, as I think about it, is probably the reason men generally can't lactate.

[Trinitis]

GOD DAMNIT ANTICOR!! Now I got fucking soda all over the place.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Snapp
:whocares: It's a natural way to feed babies. It's not like the women will be walking around with their boobies shooting milk all over everyone. Why does it matter?

Because it isn't something that should be done in public or mixed company. As a society we should try to keep some standards.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by xtc

Because it isn't something that should be done in public or mixed company.
Why do you say that though? Is it because you might see a nipple? Or it's just disgusting to you? Just curious, I don't really care either way.

[KymberlynX]

Unfortunately when babies are hungry they don't care about being in public or mixed company and if they are anything like my daughter was when I was breastfeeding, nothing else will do so long as Mommy is around.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Snapp

Originally posted by xtc

Because it isn't something that should be done in public or mixed company.
Why do you say that though? Is it because you might see a nipple? Or it's just disgusting to you? Just curious, I don't really care either way.

It is called decorum.

[xtc]

Originally posted by KymberlynX
Unfortunately when babies are hungry they don't care about being in public or mixed company and if they are anything like my daughter was when I was breastfeeding, nothing else will do so long as Mommy is around.


Babies have many immediate needs, not all of them are conducted in public.

[Tsa`ah]

I'll take discretion over decorum; the two aren't synonymous after all.

I would rather a woman breast feed her child in public than listen to a screaming infant. That's just my selfishness speaking.

I'm sure women aren't exactly comfortable with an infant sucking a nipple in public either, but I'll give them praise ... they choose their child over public embarrassment.

In short, I've no problem with it so long as the woman practices a measure discretion. Yes it's obvious, so are breasts, yet we're not asking women to lob them off.

Stow the jealousy and get over it ... there are after all more offensive things in this world (if you can call breast feeding offensive).

[xtc]

From the Oxford:

decorum
/dikorm/

• noun 1 behaviour in keeping with good taste and propriety. 2 prescribed behaviour; etiquette.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by xtc
From the Oxford:

decorum
/dikorm/

• noun 1 behaviour in keeping with good taste and propriety. 2 prescribed behaviour; etiquette.

Umm ... yay for you in learning how to use a dictionary?

Good taste and propriety are subjective to begin with. A woman who cares more for the health of her child over any offense she may give to strangers in public displays a great deal more decorum than the passer by who decides her act of nature is offensive.

I'm sorry, most arguments against breast feeding in public are rather lame, especially those that cite subjective terms.

If it offends you ... don't look. It's not like she's flopping her tit around, in which case ... guys would be cheering.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Back]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Snapp

Originally posted by xtc

Because it isn't something that should be done in public or mixed company.
Why do you say that though? Is it because you might see a nipple? Or it's just disgusting to you? Just curious, I don't really care either way.

It is called decorum.

That didn’t really answer the question. What is it about a woman breast feeding a baby discreetly in public, specifically, that you find so lacking in decorum?

[xtc]

quote]Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by xtc
From the Oxford:

decorum
/dikorm/

• noun 1 behaviour in keeping with good taste and propriety. 2 prescribed behaviour; etiquette.

Umm ... yay for you in learning how to use a dictionary?

Good taste and propriety are subjective to begin with. A woman who cares more for the health of her child over any offense she may give to strangers in public displays a great deal more decorum than the passer by who decides her act of nature is offensive.

I'm sorry, most arguments against breast feeding in public are rather lame, especially those that cite subjective terms.

If it offends you ... don't look. It's not like she's flopping her tit around, in which case ... guys would be cheering.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Tsa`ah] [/quote]

Decorum is the word I used, decorum is the word I meant to use. Thank you, but the ability to use a dictionary is something I have possessed for many years.

I don't object to breast feeding, just breast feeding in public. A mother can properly breast feed her child in private. Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places.

If you feel that a set of standards for public behaviour is lame that is your opinion; which I guess you are entitled to. The arguments to support public breast feeding are subjective as well.

If a woman is breast feeding her child in public and I look away, I ignore the problem. Personally if I am in a restaurant I complain to management which has solved the problem for me every time.

[Delirium]

I dont think its possible to make a law saying one has to breastfeed discreetly. Is it? I mean that would be different for every person. Its natural for a baby to shit his pants too but changing a diaper isnt done in public. There are places in almost all public restrooms to take care of this. They could easily make areas that are private for this purpose and they should do so.

No one is saying it should be a felony, no one would go to prison cause they breastfed. Women arent allowed to show their tits in public. Whether you agree or not with the law is unimportant. Why would feeding the baby in public change it?

Hypocritically i agree with whoever said that if it was only attractive women whipping out a nipple it wouldnt be a big deal. Imagine even if men didnt have to wear shirts while eating at a resteraunt. The GQ model with a perfect body, not a big deal. The fat dude who has more hair than a black bear tho? Wouldja really wanna be eating within eye site of that? I might have a weak stomach but i wouldnt be able to eat. I dont really care what people look like til they start showing more skin than is sensible.

[Back]

Originally posted by xtc
I don't object to breast feeding, just breast feeding in public. A mother can properly breast feed her child in private. Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places.

I know you posted in response to Tsa’ah, but this part struck me as unusual. Do you really classify breast feeding right along with defecation and masturbation? Eating and drinking is pretty natural too.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by xtc
I don't object to breast feeding, just breast feeding in public. A mother can properly breast feed her child in private. Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places.

I know you posted in response to Tsa’ah, but this part struck me as unusual. Do you really classify breast feeding right along with defecation and masturbation? Eating and drinking is pretty natural too.

Tsa'ah said breast feeding is natural. To me it seemed that he was implying that if it is natural it is ok, even in public. I was simply pointing out that not all natural acts are acceptable or appropriate in public.

[xtc]

.....and no one wants to see a mother get off sexually by breast feeding her kid.

"When a child breastfeeds, the body responds by contracting the uterus…… If you find yourself becoming sexually stimulated while breastfeeding………."

LINK (http://www.saferchild.org/breastfd1.htm)

[Kel]

Originally posted by xtc
.....and no one wants to see a mother get off sexually by breast feeding her kid.

"When a child breastfeeds, the body responds by contracting the uterus…… If you find yourself becoming sexually stimulated while breastfeeding………."

LINK (http://www.saferchild.org/breastfd1.htm)

Although it's perfectly normal for a woman to become aroused when breastfeeding, not all women do...and those that do, aren't falling down in ecstasy having multiple orgasms. And if a woman WAS having an orgasm from the act of breastfeeding....newsflash...you wouldn't know it.

I've got an idea. Let's relegate to private places only, anything that could cause one to become sexually aroused. Whadda ya think? Good idea? :rolleyes:

[Jazuela]

I kinda have a problem with public breastfeeding. The problem is, that breastfeeding women are asking to be allowed to expose their breasts in public, for the purpose of feeding their children. The operative phrase here is "expose their breasts in public."

Why then, can't any other females expose THEIR breasts in public? Maybe it's just really hot outside and we want a breeze on our skin? If the breast is not considered "private parts" for lactating women, then it shouldn't be considered "private parts" for non-lactating women.

Personally I'd prefer not to see a bunch of breasts bouncing around at the supermarket. But the law would need to decide what constitutes "discrete use" and it could get kinda stupid.

"No more than 1/16" of the aureola can be exposed." ... or whatever. What are they gonna do, send boob cops out with a tape measure?

Unfortunately, I can't see any way to create a law that's actually enforceable, that would accommodate *discrete* breastfeeding in public. And I really feel that a breast is a breast, and if one woman can expose hers, then others should be allowed to expose theirs. Or - not allow either to expose them and require public restrooms to have accommodations for breastfeeders.

[Vixen]

Yah because guys never get aroused in public I'm sure....

And thats definitely not the norm.

In any case, yes some places have private places in which a mother can breastfeed. But not all do. And I'm sorry, judging by many if not most of the public restrooms I have seen, a, there isnt the room for mother and baby to be comfortable, which is essential for the success of breastfeeding, and b, most of them aren't terribly clean either. And I'm sorry, but when I have my son, if he needs to eat, then he needs to eat.
Yes I will be discreet should I ever.. which I hope I don't... have to feed him in public. I'm way too shy to ever be comfortable with that. However I echo the sentiments of whoever said kudos to the mothers who take care of their children, over the disdain of some others. I just don't see the problem of doing it, if you arent hanging out all over the place.
And comparing something as natural as feeding a child who has a need, to masturbation, is rediculous.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Kel

Originally posted by xtc
.....and no one wants to see a mother get off sexually by breast feeding her kid.

"When a child breastfeeds, the body responds by contracting the uterus…… If you find yourself becoming sexually stimulated while breastfeeding………."

LINK (http://www.saferchild.org/breastfd1.htm)

Although it's perfectly normal for a woman to become aroused when breastfeeding, not all women do...and those that do, aren't falling down in ecstasy having multiple orgasms. And if a woman WAS having an orgasm from the act of breastfeeding....newsflash...you wouldn't know it.

I've got an idea. Let's relegate to private places only, anything that could cause one to become sexually aroused. Whadda ya think? Good idea? :rolleyes:

For the most part we already do, when was the last time you saw a porn flick playing over head in Time Square or you saw strippers shaking it at the local food court?


Do I take it you like the idea of mothers becoming sexually aroused in public from breast feeding their kid?

[Latrinsorm]

In spirit, it sounds fine to me to let them go. Babies are tough.

Two problems with the practicality:

1) What Jazuela said.
2) What constitutes an infant? Apparently a 7 year old is unacceptable to some people, but apparently not to the 7 year old or his/her mother. Arbitrary age limits are really really played out.

[Jorddyn]

Just to throw in my two cents (YAY).

Re: Urinating/Defecating in public. If the results of these actions were the primary food source for a young human and left no waste product around for others to deal with/dodge, you might have a point. If a breastfeeding mother is squirting her milk across the mall, you might have a point. I don't think that happens often, though.

Re: Masturbation. If the result of this action is the primary food source for a young human... hell, you don't have a point, you're just sick.

C'mon, really. Several of you who think it is sick and has no place in public probably would have NO problem with a woman flashing you in public. So then, is it the fact that a child is attached to the breast that is so disturbing? Do you think you'll feel differently after you see your first child feeding? I'm honestly curious.

Jorddyn :weirdthread:

[Harlock]

Is this even real? Being a VERY LUCKY father of two to a woman WAY more beautiful than I deserve I say aloow it. Why not? It's very natural, it hurts NO ONE, and it nourishes those that will rule long after we are gone. This is a no-brainer for God'sake.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by xtc
Decorum is the word I used, decorum is the word I meant to use. Thank you, but the ability to use a dictionary is something I have possessed for many years.

Comprehension seems to be the problem. I know what you meant and was in no way correcting you. However, I don't get where you misunderstood my statement of "I'll take discretion over decorum".


I don't object to breast feeding, just breast feeding in public. A mother can properly breast feed her child in private. Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places.

There are public facilities in place to prevent public evacuation of bodily waste, thus eliminating the need to. Public facilities for breast feeding are fewer and farther between. That argument doesn't work.


If you feel that a set of standards for public behaviour is lame that is your opinion; which I guess you are entitled to.

I'm entitled to flip the bird and give a hearty "fuck off" to public standards that are subjective ... and often do.


The arguments to support public breast feeding are subjective as well.

Not subjective at all. A child needs fed, the mother lacks access to facilities that would enable her to do so in private (while away from home), the mother feeds said child.

There is nothing subjective about the health of a child.


If a woman is breast feeding her child in public and I look away, I ignore the problem. Personally if I am in a restaurant I complain to management which has solved the problem for me every time.

Considering restaurants are private institutions accessible to the public, it is within their right to ask the mother no breast feed within their establishment. It only makes you a jackass for complaining, but women often have a way of dealing with jackasses.

"You don't want me to feed my child? Listen to him/her cry then."

My wife has done so, and every time (within a minute's time) the management the management will tell the one complainer accept a discount/free meal ... or fuck off.


Originally posted by xtc
Tsa'ah said breast feeding is natural. To me it seemed that he was implying that if it is natural it is ok, even in public. I was simply pointing out that not all natural acts are acceptable or appropriate in public.

Already explained and shot down.


Originally posted by xtc
.....and no one wants to see a mother get off sexually by breast feeding her kid.

"When a child breastfeeds, the body responds by contracting the uterus…… If you find yourself becoming sexually stimulated while breastfeeding………."

LINK (http://www.saferchild.org/breastfd1.htm)

Now that's just the lamest attempt at straw grabbing I've ever seen.

Using that logic, we should cover women from head to toe, making no physical attribute distinguishable, or not allow them in public ... because men my get aroused in public.


Originally posted by Jazuela
I kinda have a problem with public breastfeeding. The problem is, that breastfeeding women are asking to be allowed to expose their breasts in public, for the purpose of feeding their children. The operative phrase here is "expose their breasts in public."

That's the operative observation on your part. Most women aren't asking to expose themselves, in fact most women aren't exposing themselves for the purpose of feeding.

Hell, walk down any campus on a Friday or Saturday, a mall during a HS slut invasion, the streets around any popular club. There are more women exposing so much more breast than a woman breast feeding her child. Most women I know or have seen breast feeding only make you aware of it because they have a child to their breast with a blanket covering them. The only way you will see any breast is if you stare long enough for them to arrange themselves before or after the feeding.

And what exactly did you mother teach you about staring?


Why then, can't any other females expose THEIR breasts in public?

They do, already explained


Maybe it's just really hot outside and we want a breeze on our skin?

Do so in your back yard. The two are not comparable in any way.


If the breast is not considered "private parts" for lactating women, then it shouldn't be considered "private parts" for non-lactating women.

You make it sound like lactating women go topless or constantly flop their exposed breasts around. But .... already explained.


Personally I'd prefer not to see a bunch of breasts bouncing around at the supermarket. But the law would need to decide what constitutes "discrete use" and it could get kinda stupid.

Many states already have "exposure" laws and guidelines to what is considered "criminal public exposure". Unless a person has x-ray vision, they're not going to see much of a nipple or areola while an infant is attached to it.


"No more than 1/16" of the aureola can be exposed." ... or whatever. What are they gonna do, send boob cops out with a tape measure?

If there is a complaint ... yes.


Unfortunately, I can't see any way to create a law that's actually enforceable, that would accommodate *discrete* breastfeeding in public. And I really feel that a breast is a breast, and if one woman can expose hers, then others should be allowed to expose theirs. Or - not allow either to expose them and require public restrooms to have accommodations for breastfeeders.

The "well they do" argument hasn't stood up in any debate since grade school. The two aren't comparable. But ... if you want to expose your breasts because another woman is breast feeding her child, I would suggest you start lactating and become the St. Bernard of women for starving infants ... then you would have an excuse.

As for requiring public restrooms to allow breast feeding ... how about this. The next time you're out for dinner, request the host to seat and serve you in one of the stalls.

You wouldn't do it, so why would you want a mother to feed her newborn in one? Talk about health risks.


Originally posted by xtc
For the most part we already do, when was the last time you saw a porn flick playing over head in Time Square or you saw strippers shaking it at the local food court?

A better question would be "when was the last time you got aroused when an attractive woman walked by you in public."

You can't compare porn to breast feeding, unless you're one of those people with a lactating fetish. It's a stupid comparison.


Do I take it you like the idea of mothers becoming sexually aroused in public from breast feeding their kid?

I think you have some issues you need to get over before you join in on any other debates. That has got to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard.

It's something that has to be done (feeding a child), how this is done is up to the mother and I'm highly confident that the percentage of women that do it for sexual stimulation is rather insignificant. Hell, victims of rape (women) orgasm during the act, that doesn't mean they enjoyed it, it doesn't mean they consented to it, it just means their body reacted to the stimulation. It's not something that can be controlled.

[xtc]

Tsa'ah bottom line, I prefer woman don't breast in public as I find it inappropriate, while you don't mind it.

I don't think woman breast feed for sexual stimulation, but as you can see from my link it can happen.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do I take it you like the idea of mothers becoming sexually aroused in public from breast feeding their kid?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This quote is humour, I was hardly being serious.

If you are in the mood for your mile long posts, there is a fella who has been posting about Holocaust denial you should be conversing with.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by xtc]

[Warriorbird]

Eh. The non breastfeeders seem to favor the "barefoot in the kitchen" ideal. Shockingly enough, not every woman stays home all day with their baby.

I see nothing wrong with it if a woman isn't being ridiculous.

[Shari]

I didn't read all of the replies but here's my two cents.

Yeah, someday I plan on having kids. I likely will breastfeed (though I shudder at the thought now). I think its disgusting and virtually indecent exposure to breastfeed out in public. There are public bathrooms EVERYWHERE. If you need to breastfeed that bad, go in there. If its too dirty for you, buy a pump and carry some of it around in a bottle.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. I always thought people feeding babies baby food in public was far nastier. That stuff's disgusting.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by xtc
Because it isn't something that should be done in public or mixed company. As a society we should try to keep some standards.

Standards? Breast feeding a child is the most natural thing in the world. It isn't something disgusting, or shameful to be hidden. It isn't a personal sexual act that should be hidden.

It is feeding a child. When used that way, the breast is not a sexual thing, it's doing what it was meant for. And while I completely agree women shouldn't be out there with the whole thing showing, that happens very rarely and it doesn't symbolize the average breast feeding mother.

My daughter was breast fed for a year, and most people never even knew I was doing it while in public. But even if they did, my child is more important than your out-dated ideas of propriety.

and then you go on to say...... "Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places. "

Fuck off. Feeding a child is so far removed from those two actions it makes me want to smack you. Not EVEN a valid comparison.


If a woman is breast feeding her child in public and I look away, I ignore the problem. Personally if I am in a restaurant I complain to management which has solved the problem for me every time."

You are officially an ass. You put your needs before that of a family? So either the baby doesn't eat or the parents don't eat.

it is a NATURAL function for a mother to feed her child that way. I'm sure as hell not going to sit in the resteraunt and listen to my child wail and have my breasts fill to a painful fullness just because you apparently can't LOOK AWAY.

Trust me, if the child is feeding right, you don't even see anything , especially with a nursing shirt and/or blanket.

Give me a break. I'm not going in some bathroom or hiding away.


***Edited to say thankyou to Tsa'ah, read his posts after typing this out***

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Caiylania]

Originally posted by Caiylania
"Defecating and masturbation are natural as well, but we don't do them in the open public places. "


We can't defecate and masturbate in public places? :?:

[Caiylania]

actually thats misleading, xtc said that. Should have used quote for that as well I guess.

Cool, maybe xtc can join my defecating and masturbating in public places club. That'd be so neat.

I made a typo

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Stanley Burrell]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania

1.Standards? Breast feeding a child is the most natural thing in the world.

2.My daughter was breast fed for a year, and most people never even knew I was doing it while in public. But even if they did, my child is more important than your out-dated ideas of propriety.

3.Fuck off. Feeding a child is so far removed from those two actions it makes me want to smack you. Not EVEN a valid comparison.

4.You are officially an ass. You put your needs before that of a family? So either the baby doesn't eat or the parents don't eat.

5.it is a NATURAL function for a mother to feed her child that way. I'm sure as hell not going to sit in the resteraunt and listen to my child wail and have my breasts fill to a painful fullness just because you apparently can't LOOK AWAY.

6.Give me a break. I'm not going in some bathroom or hiding away.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Caiylania]

1. Many acts are natural, not all are suitable for public viewing.

2. Kudos on breast feeding your child, that isn’t the argument. It is your opinion that propriety is out of date, not mine.

3. Fuck off…..always makes for a powerful argument.

4. I don’t come to a restaurant to see a child breast fed. Why would someone bring a child that young to a restaurant anyway. The ass is the dumb bitch who brings her very young baby to a fine dining restaurant.

5. Please see response to number 4, again you can feed your child in the privacy of your own home and you won’t have any problems.

6. You will if you are in the same restaurant as me.

Woah, if someone is at a restaurant and they see a woman breastfeeding what is so wrong with complaining to the manager? That family's rights end where mine begin. Sorry, but I'm a paying customer and should not be forced to be there for that.

- Arkans

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by xtc

1. Many acts are natural, not all are suitable for public viewing.

2. Kudos on breast feeding your child, that isn’t the argument. It is your opinion that propriety is out of date, not mine.

3. Fuck off…..always makes for a powerful argument.

4. I don’t come to a restaurant to see a child breast fed. Why would someone bring a child that young to a restaurant anyway. The ass is the dumb bitch who brings her very young baby to a fine dining restaurant.

5. Please see response to number 4, again you can feed your child in the privacy of your own home and you won’t have any problems.

6. You will if you are in the same restaurant as me.

1. Please, the whole not all natural acts are appropriate thing is played out.

We are not talking about ALL natural acts, but this one in particular.

2. It's my opinion that your idea of propriety is out of date as well.

3. You are the one who got all 'in your face" in your telling how you 'handled' any women who dared breastfeed in your presence in a restaurant. Wow, impressive stuff.

4. Ah, I see, it's too lowbrow for so fine a gentleman as yourself to hear the phrase 'fuck off', but for you to use the phrase 'dumb bitch' is all okie dokie.

Hypocrite much?

5. Of course, you and your puritanically prudish self are so shocked because you can see all of 3 square inches of breast that may not be covered by either discreetly placed clothing, or the child itself so your weakness takes priority.

6. Wouldn't I love to see you try. Your arrogance astounds.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Arkans
Woah, if someone is at a restaurant and they see a woman breastfeeding what is so wrong with complaining to the manager? That family's rights end where mine begin. Sorry, but I'm a paying customer and should not be forced to be there for that.

- Arkans

I realize you're a guy - but do you HAVE to look in that direction?

It's like someone with a huge mole. Are you gonna stop and stare and go "MOLEY MOLEY MOLEY!"

http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/6981_ap005_thumb.jpg

[Groldar]

I mean, if you're gonna be able to see boobs in public, especially when they're larger after the whole pregnancy thing - What guy would be opposed?

:lol: Wezas, I would stare at the mole, yes.

On topic though.. I'm a paying customer. I should not have to force myself away from any line of sight nor should I be made uncomfortable at a restaurant that I am paying to be in. I'd like to think that I have rights there as well and if there is something I find distasteful, it should be stopped. My dollar is as good as any other, I'd think.

- Arkans

[Wezas]

If it wasn't a breastfeeding mother but another attractive woman who was parading around drunk with her breasts bouncing around, would you be offended?

Of course not, Wezas, but you really cannot compare the two let alone them both still being inappropriate.

- Arkans

[Skirmisher]

The point Arkans, is at what point does your opinion of what is 'distateful' take precedence over the rights of another.

Our own little unscientific poll is showing support for discrete breastfeeding far outstripping those opposing.

Again, this is not saying a woman should leap up on the bar and toss off all her clothes, scream "Look at me!!!" and slap a kid to a nipple. People supporting the right to breastfeed in public are of course referring to those mothers who are discrete and do their best to not make a big deal of it at all. A passerby or someon sitting at a nearby table should see less than if the woman were wearing a low cut top for goodness sakes.

It really is not a big deal untill someone with extremely little willpower is unable to look away and maintain their own conversation and makes it a big deal.

[Jazuela]

Sorry Tsa'ah that my post wasn't clear (or maybe you misunderstood). My concern is not with breastfeeding AT ALL. I have absolutely no problem with it, and it wouldn't offend me in the least to see it in public.

My concern is with the enforceability of the law, as pertains to "discrete use." There ARE women who would have no problem with actually exposing their breast and NOT being discrete about it, when breastfeeding their child. And unless the law is exact about the criteria, the women doing this would be within their rights to continue and no amount of complaining would get it to stop.

I have seen women breastfeed in public. Most of them, you wouldn't even know they were doing it, because it looks to the casual observer that they're simply holding their child close to their chests, and giving them a loving snuggle.

SOME, however, lack any sense of discretion, and lift their shirt, lower their nursing bra cup, and let it all hang out.

If the law doesn't specify that this second method is unacceptable, THEN I have a problem with it - because then they're saying "this group can expose their breasts in public, but that group would be arrested for exposure."

Regarding your comment about requiring restrooms to allow breastfeeding - that's where you misunderstood. I specified "accommodate" breastfeeding, not merely allow. It's already allowed, but most restrooms lack actual accommodations for this natural and important function. Some, on the other hand, DO have nursing stations. My point is that I would prefer to have all public restrooms be required by law to have nursing stations, which are built *specifically* for the function of nursing a child. Like a parlour seperate from the stall/sink area. Those are the nursing stations I've seen in the past.

As for people complaining about "but the kid's hungry and my boobs are aching!" - breast pumps and bottles exist for precisely that reason. There is NEVER a time that a woman should be that uncomfortable, and their child that hungry, because those devices exist and have existed for decades, prior to the invention of baby formula.

My last thought - I can't remember who brought this up, maybe Latrinstorm.

There are women who are militantly involved in La Leche...an organization that feels children should be breastfed until they no longer want to be breastfed. Some mothers in this group will breastfeed their child as late as the early stages of puberty. How would the law handle this? If they say "only up to age 2" how will it address and explain why children between 2 and 10 are not allowed to feed from their mother's breast in public? You can't use the "necessary use" claim, because even newborns don't "need" breastmilk, since the advent of soy and dairy-based formulae, and the invention of pumps and bottles.

So - I hope that clears my concern up Tsa'ah. I really don't have any problems with women breastfeeding in public, whether they expose themselves or not. I'm more concerned with the law itself, and how it could accommodate these women, without discriminating against other women.

Skirmisher, the rights of another person end where mine begin. It's simple as that. Everyone should enjoy the same level of comfort in a place that they pay for. I don't think that is too unreasonable at all.

Our pole is also, just that, unscientific. I mean, if we went accord to our own pole, Kerry would have won the election, no? Regardless, exposing any part of the body is indecent exposure which does include the breast.

Anyway, it is really not that hard to have a bottle in public places to have common courtesy for other people and let them enjoy their meal as they wanted too. Failing that, if breast feeding disgusts another patron, I see it perfectly within their right to complain to the manager, why should they have to suffer through their meal when pleanty of other options are avaiable to the mother?

- Arkans

PS: I won't even begin to say how screaming babies shouldn't be in restaurant or movie theaters anyway!!

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Arkans
Regardless, exposing any part of the body is indecent exposure which does include the breast.
- Arkans

Then I want you to wear a mask and gloves when you eat at a restraunt from now on.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by xtc

1. Many acts are natural, not all are suitable for public viewing.

2. Kudos on breast feeding your child, that isn’t the argument. It is your opinion that propriety is out of date, not mine.

3. Fuck off…..always makes for a powerful argument.

4. I don’t come to a restaurant to see a child breast fed. Why would someone bring a child that young to a restaurant anyway. The ass is the dumb bitch who brings her very young baby to a fine dining restaurant.

5. Please see response to number 4, again you can feed your child in the privacy of your own home and you won’t have any problems.

6. You will if you are in the same restaurant as me.

1. Please, the whole not all natural acts are appropriate thing is played out.

We are not talking about ALL natural acts, but this one in particular.

2. It's my opinion that your idea of propriety is out of date as well.

3. You are the one who got all 'in your face" in your telling how you 'handled' any women who dared breastfeed in your presence in a restaurant. Wow, impressive stuff.

4. Ah, I see, it's too lowbrow for so fine a gentleman as yourself to hear the phrase 'fuck off', but for you to use the phrase 'dumb bitch' is all okie dokie.

Hypocrite much?

5. Of course, you and your puritanically prudish self are so shocked because you can see all of 3 square inches of breast that may not be covered by either discreetly placed clothing, or the child itself so your weakness takes priority.

6. Wouldn't I love to see you try. Your arrogance astounds.

1. It is a valid point period. I am aware of which natural act we are talking about.

2. You are entitled to your opinion.

3. I never directed my comment at one specific person to start with. It isn’t my intention to embarrass anyone; I simply prefer not to watch a women breast feeding when I am eating. I have a quiet word with the Maitre d' who then speaks to the lady; some restaurants have offered the woman a private place to feed her child.

4. I never mentioned lowbrow. I said it wasn’t an effective argument. I didn’t direct dumb bitch at any one person.

5. Not weakness, decorum. I simply prefer not to have a woman breast feed in public. No one is stopping any mother from breast feeding in private.

6. As I have mentioned I have a quiet word with the Maitre d’ and he handles it.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Jazuela

There are women who are militantly involved in La Leche...an organization that feels children should be breastfed until they no longer want to be breastfed. Some mothers in this group will breastfeed their child as late as the early stages of puberty. How would the law handle this? If they say "only up to age 2" how will it address and explain why children between 2 and 10 are not allowed to feed from their mother's breast in public? You can't use the "necessary use" claim, because even newborns don't "need" breastmilk, since the advent of soy and dairy-based formulae, and the invention of pumps and bottles.



Not all La Leche League members are as far gone as that. I have some family members who are big supporters of it, but not even the most ardent of them are telling people to nurse to the bizarre ages you are referring to. There are extremist members in every organization.

I am not one looking for a legal referendum on this as much as updating awareness and hoping to ensure the social acceptability for nursing mothers to be able to discretely (KEY WORD) feed their children in public.

[CrystalTears]

I plan on breastfeeding my children (although they may go into shock on their first day when they see my massive mammaries) but I don't forsee myself breastfeeding them in public. I would find alternate solutions to feeding them should we need to go out if I know that a bathroom or private location isn't available.

As for others doing it, well, as long as they're not being obvious about it, I don't mind. I've yet to see a woman doing it enough to be so noticable to be a problem, but then again there are quite a few companies around here that have separate rooms for breastfeeding.

Restaurants... well... I don't know. It's fine I guess, but if someone didn't appreciate it, I don't see why the mother can't be accommodating. :shrug: Maybe I'm wrong or naive on this issue still. I know, I know, don't stare, don't say anything. But people get offended for different things, unrealistic or not, and have as much of a right to complain as anyone else if they're eating. I suppose that one is up for to mull over.

[Wezas]

I agree that there should be covering up. Bystanders should see nothing but the back of the baby's head. I'm sure there's been inventions over the past 25 years to conseal the fact that you're breastfeeding a bit.

[Groldar]

Any guy who has a problem seeing boobs has something wrong with them

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Groldar
Any guy who has a problem seeing boobs has something wrong with them

Depends on the boobs.

<Something About Mary flashbacks>

[Groldar]

I honestly don't mind seeing nasty boobs even, cause its something new to look at.

[Leetahkin]

Originally posted by Arkans
Everyone should enjoy the same level of comfort in a place that they pay for. I don't think that is too unreasonable at all.

Failing that, if breast feeding disgusts another patron, I see it perfectly within their right to complain to the manager, why should they have to suffer through their meal when pleanty of other options are avaiable to the mother?

- Arkans


Everyone at the restaurant is a paying customer, so why does one's rights outweigh the rights of another? If the mother is being discreet about feeding her child, it shouldn't bother anyone. Don't look that way.

It's like saying there's an obese person eating at the same restaurant, who you find disgusting and don't want to look at. You have no right to complain to the manager about that. It's along the same lines.

Or a very scantily *slutty* looking female sitting at another booth. I wouldn't want to have her in my line of vision. But you know what? We're both paying customers.

What about someone sitting in (maybe Denny's for example) tap tap tapping away on a laptop. That may be an annoyance to someone, but that person has every right to do that.

At least the breastfeeding mother would be quietly doing it.

You ignore it, or you move on. People get too uppidity for small things.

[Amaron]

I am the mother of two and I breastfed both my babies.

I tried using a rest room once but it was filthy, there was no place to sit where I could cradle the baby in a way they could easily feed.

It was so uncomfortable for us both and my ass got wet when the damn auto flush toilet thought I was done...


I called department stores at my local mall and asked about their restrooms for nursing mothers.

My Sears has a comfortable chair in a semi private nook where a mother can breastfeed.
Its in the rest room but still its a padded rocker and its in an out of the way corner of the rest room.

I wrote them a BIG thank you and I wrote the corportaion asking them to please have them in every Sears.

I then took copies of the letters I got from Sears to WalMart and JC Penny, Boscovs and several other large stores asking them to please put in something similar.

Our Boscoves took out a stall and did just that.. put in a nice comfortable chair for mommy to sit and breastfeed.

walmart ignored me.

The others sent me polite letters saying they would look into it.

We have one large local hospital who gives these stores free advertising when dealing with new moms but letting them know what store has facilities.


I would rather not breastfeed in public but when the baby is hungry its hungry and it won't listen as you try and reason with it.
So out comes the light blanket and the baby gets fed.

You do what you have to do.

J

[Kel]

Originally posted by xtc
For the most part we already do, when was the last time you saw a porn flick playing over head in Time Square or you saw strippers shaking it at the local food court?

We're not going to get anywhere because we're clearly starting from different premises. I don't equate breastfeeding -- either the sight of it, or the idea that a breastfeeding woman might get aroused while breastfeeding -- with porn...strippers...folks running around wanking off in public...or folks crapping in the gutter. As for prohibiting things that could conceivably be arousing to some innoncent bystander...porn is about as obvious a reference as you could have come up with. Bare skin (people wearing shorts....cropped tops...etc), advertising, are fully "acceptable" examples of things that I'm betting turn some folks on, some of the time. I'm sure there are many less obvious examples. There are as many potentially arousing things as there are people.



Do I take it you like the idea of mothers becoming sexually aroused in public from breast feeding their kid?

Wow. Take it that way if you want, but you are SO reading into what I said. Frankly, I neither like nor dislike the idea. If a woman breastfeeds in public, I simply hope she'll be intelligent and sensitive enough not to whip her breasts out of her shirt and wave them deliberately in my face. In the pretty unlikely event that the woman gets mildly arounsed, standing in a public place where she probably realizes some bystanders will be uncomfortable and others will be staring, I will be none the wiser, and, frankly, won't care.

[DeV]

Why the fuck do you care if the mother might become sexually aroused while breasfeeding?

I sexually arouse my girlfriend all the time in public and guess what, you'd never know. Have you ever seen a breast feeding mother get off in public from milking her child? I bet you anything that you haven't.

Anyone who would have a problem with that possibly happening as a result of a mother is breast feeding their child has issues.

[Warriorbird]

Some people are just prudes. Blame it on 1950's style parenting that still goes on despite the fact that we're living in the 21st century or just blame it on the fact that some people will always be prudish. I guess it's like people always having to bash other people's professions to try to get theirs something on the official boards.

Someone else breastfeeding their kid doesn't effect me a damn bit. It's not amoral. It's not in bad taste.

For all the "pro family" stuff that goes on, some people have ridiculously anti family standards.

Oh no, a boob! A covered boob! End of the world!

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by xtc
1. Many acts are natural, not all are suitable for public viewing.

2. Kudos on breast feeding your child, that isn’t the argument. It is your opinion that propriety is out of date, not mine.

3. Fuck off…..always makes for a powerful argument.

4. I don’t come to a restaurant to see a child breast fed. Why would someone bring a child that young to a restaurant anyway. The ass is the dumb bitch who brings her very young baby to a fine dining restaurant.

5. Please see response to number 4, again you can feed your child in the privacy of your own home and you won’t have any problems.

6. You will if you are in the same restaurant as me.

1. So what offends? The breast or the baby attached to it? If it's the breast, then every woman in that resteraunt with cleavage out do here and huge ass midriffs should have you calling the waiter over as well.

If it is the baby feeding, then every child with a bottle should be told not to eat.

If these seperatly are allowed, then what is the big deal?

2. You are right. It is my opinion, you are the one however who is going out of his way to make sure mother's and their children are not being given acceptance. All because you can't handle it. It is how kids have been fed for over 20,000 years. It is only in the last couple of decades human have gone idiotic over it.

3. As for the fuck off, I stand by it. Here women are doing the best by THEIR CHILDREN and YOUR needs matter more? Give me a FUCKing break.

4. Any misbehaving child should not be brought to a resteraunt, no matter what /how they eat. My daughter never made a peep and there was no way I was leaving her (as she was ill with a non contagious disease) with a baby sitter. My husband enjoys taking me out for dinner, I enjoy a good meal in a nice resteraunt. I fed her, she never cried. So what is your point? As Skirm said, I am a paying customer just like you.

5. I will feed my child how I see fit whenever she is hungry and needs to be fed the way God intended. or mother nature. The way my body works with hers.

6. And I will then have you and the resteraunt fined because in many states it is illegal to tell a woman she can not breast feed in public. Get over yourself.

and thanks to Skirmisher for her post :)

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Wezas
I'm sure there's been inventions over the past 25 years to conseal the fact that you're breastfeeding a bit.

It is new fangled technology called "a blanket."

Jorddyn :)

[Groldar]

You guys are all taking this way to seriously. Some of you (Arkans) might not be so anal about titty babies if you actually got to see some titties yourself!!

[CrystalTears]

Well there are also bras specifically designed for breastfeeding.

[Caiylania]

From the article:



But the new generation of lactivists compare discomfort with seeing breast-feeding in public to discomfort with seeing interracial couples or gays holding hands.

"It's like any other prejudice. They have to get used to it," said Rebecca Odes, who attended the ABC protest. "People don't want to see it because they feel uncomfortable with it, and they feel uncomfortable with it because they don't see it."


Agreed.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
Failing that, if breast feeding disgusts another patron, I see it perfectly within their right to complain to the manager, why should they have to suffer through their meal when pleanty of other options are avaiable to the mother?

You can complain all you want. Fortunately a woman is well within her rights to remain in that restuarant and enjoy her meal, and breast feed her child as if you don't even exist.

Damn, is it that hard to not look.

[Warriorbird]

Maybe he has a fetish.

[Praefection]

Seems to me a lot of the people complaining are the ones who don't have children or who haven't been around them a lot. Me I'd rather see a woman feeding her child or listen to the kid scream because it's hungry. The fun thing about babies is you can't chose when they're going to be hungry and a woman is entitled to live her life too, even with a baby.

I'm not that worried about seing it after having friends who breast fed their children. Screaming on the other hand I can't handle.

[Snapp]

Amaron's post
They should really make that a requirement in all department store bathrooms. Interesting to see who cares and who doesn't (Walmart).

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by DeV
Damn, is it that hard to not look.

Well c'mon. It's a BOOB! How can you NOT look? Don't you know that boobs are automatically a sexual organ and shouldn't be exposed for any reason, even for something that's totally not sexual? What's wrong with you? /sarcasm

BTW, I was told it's no longer against the law to be top naked in NY. Women took a stand about it, saying if men can change or remove shirts in the middle of the street, they can too. Sweet. :D

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania

Originally posted by xtc
1. Many acts are natural, not all are suitable for public viewing.

2. Kudos on breast feeding your child, that isn’t the argument. It is your opinion that propriety is out of date, not mine.

3. Fuck off…..always makes for a powerful argument.

4. I don’t come to a restaurant to see a child breast fed. Why would someone bring a child that young to a restaurant anyway. The ass is the dumb bitch who brings her very young baby to a fine dining restaurant.

5. Please see response to number 4, again you can feed your child in the privacy of your own home and you won’t have any problems.

6. You will if you are in the same restaurant as me.

1. So what offends? The breast or the baby attached to it? If it's the breast, then every woman in that resteraunt with cleavage out do here and huge ass midriffs should have you calling the waiter over as well.

If it is the baby feeding, then every child with a bottle should be told not to eat.

If these seperatly are allowed, then what is the big deal?

2. You are right. It is my opinion, you are the one however who is going out of his way to make sure mother's and their children are not being given acceptance. All because you can't handle it. It is how kids have been fed for over 20,000 years. It is only in the last couple of decades human have gone idiotic over it.

3. As for the fuck off, I stand by it. Here women are doing the best by THEIR CHILDREN and YOUR needs matter more? Give me a FUCKing break.

4. Any misbehaving child should not be brought to a resteraunt, no matter what /how they eat. My daughter never made a peep and there was no way I was leaving her (as she was ill with a non contagious disease) with a baby sitter. My husband enjoys taking me out for dinner, I enjoy a good meal in a nice resteraunt. I fed her, she never cried. So what is your point? As Skirm said, I am a paying customer just like you.

5. I will feed my child how I see fit whenever she is hungry and needs to be fed the way God intended. or mother nature. The way my body works with hers.

6. And I will then have you and the resteraunt fined because in many states it is illegal to tell a woman she can not breast feed in public. Get over yourself.

and thanks to Skirmisher for her post :)

1. Decorum, an appropriate place for every action. I have answered this question several times.

2. Please re-read my posts, obviously you haven’t or you have a problem with reading comprehension. I have no problem with breast feeding in private.

3. Congrats you have mastered the use of profanity.

4. I am entitled to eat my meal in peace and quiet without being offended. I highly doubt any child so young they are still being breast fed, could keep quiet for the duration of a meal. So far I have been fortunate, in each restaurant I have spoken to the Maitre d’, I have been accommodated.

5. Of this I have no doubt, don’t be surprised if people complain and you are approached by a Maitre d’ in your local restaurant.

6. Good luck on this one. Most restaurants are smart enough to address the issue without breaking the law. “Ma’am we have a private spot for you to feed your child that you may find more comfortable”. Of course I am sure some feminazis wouldn’t budge, but they many have a hard time getting a table next time the try to make reservations at their local restaurant.

[Caiylania]

1. Decorum? Who decides that? You? Could care less at this point what you think. You are not as important as my child. Some women Can't pump. are they supposed to never leave their house? No. Breast feeding is just fine taken certain steps. women should not have to hide it.

2. I did read them. My whole point here was that you are the type of person who bullies women (by actions in public) into fearing breast feeding and making them feel ashamed. When it is you who should be ashamed.

3. Thankyou. You have mastered being an arrogant and selfish poor excuse for a man.

4. You can highly doubt all you want. But the behavior of the child is not the topic. Assume the child is quiet as possible. You have no right to ask them to leave. I completely agree children causing noise should not be allowed in. One's who are not have no affect on this discussion. Stay on topic.

5. I was approached once. I continued feeding my child, asked to speak with the manager and the maitre d' was given a warning for bothering me. The complainers were reseated away from me.

6. Feminazi? Christ. Want me not be allowed to wear pants either? Used to be women were fined for wearing them... that is the type of guy you are coming across as. I will sit and feed my child at the table I am paying to eat at.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Well there are also bras specifically designed for breastfeeding.

See, CT got it without being a smartass.

http://forums.thevboard.com/images/smiles/371.gif Jord

[DeV]

Boobs getting offended by boobs. Hilarious.

[Overlord]

I wonder if there are more women or men complaining....seems like a pretty straightforward question....you are mistaken!!

[Back]

Not one person in opposition to the idea has adequately explained their revulsion. Some gross comparisons have been made, but no specifics offered as to why breastfeeding is so disgusting.

[Warriorbird]

So...you got a restaurant to move a customer because you couldn't cope with that customer breastfeeding.

You have so much clout!

:snickers:

Are you involved with a woman?

Does she wear shoes?

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania
1. Decorum? Who decides that? You? Could care less at this point what you think. You are not as important as my child. Some women Can't pump. are they supposed to never leave their house? No. Breast feeding is just fine taken certain steps. women should not have to hide it.

2. I did read them. My whole point here was that you are the type of person who bullies women (by actions in public) into fearing breast feeding and making them feel ashamed. When it is you who should be ashamed.

3. Thankyou. You have mastered being an arrogant and selfish poor excuse for a man.

4. You can highly doubt all you want. But the behavior of the child is not the topic. Assume the child is quiet as possible. You have no right to ask them to leave. I completely agree children causing noise should not be allowed in. One's who are not have no affect on this discussion. Stay on topic.

5. I was approached once. I continued feeding my child, asked to speak with the manager and the maitre d' was given a warning for bothering me. The complainers were reseated away from me.

6. Feminazi? Christ. Want me not be allowed to wear pants either? Used to be women were fined for wearing them... that is the type of guy you are coming across as. I will sit and feed my child at the table I am paying to eat at.

1. Polite society decides decorum. If you couldn’t care what I think, why do you continue to respond to my posts? Again re-read my posts I am not against breast feeding per se.

2. Um I think you are a little off base. I have never approached a woman directly. In each case I have approached the maitre d’ or owner of the restaurant in a polite fashion.

3. Again your opinion, I won’t be losing any sleep over it.

4. You are the one who drifted off topic and brought up behaviour of the child.

5. Why am I not surprised you were unconcerned with your fellow diners. Obviously our experiences have been very different, perhaps we eat in different places.

6. I didn’t say you specifically were a femni nazi. Good luck get a table in a nice restaurant if you continue to breast feed your child in public.

[CrystalTears]

I previously stated that I had my reservations about breastfeeding in restaurants. Thanks to xtc and Caiy, I've officially changed my stance "I don't mind it at all".


I am entitled to eat my meal in peace and quiet without being offended.

Usually women who are breastfeeding are also quiet and minding their own business. If a woman is bursting out her breast and exclaiming, "Check me out, I'm showing off my boob to my kid!" then she's a disruption regardless of what she was doing at the time.

You really need to go out of your way to actually realize that a woman is breasfeeding. If you are THAT uncomfortable with a woman holding a child close to her bosom and you can't see anything other than your realization that she's breastfeeding, then you have problems.


I highly doubt any child so young they are still being breast fed, could keep quiet for the duration of a meal.

You'd be surprised if you weren't so close-minded about the issue. There have been very young children in restaurants that were so well behaved you didn't even know they were there to begin with.


So far I have been fortunate, in each restaurant I have spoken to the Maitre d’, I have been accommodated.

And I find this sad on behalf of the restaurant, especially if the woman was not causing a disturbance of any kind.

Had you brought up a valid reason to not like to see women breastfeeding, I would have given it to you. However since all you come up with is society standards and possible sexual urges while it happens, you're not convincing enough to believe it's anything but prejudism.

[Edited on 6/8/2005 by CrystalTears]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
So...you got a restaurant to move a customer because you couldn't cope with that customer breastfeeding.

You have so much clout!

:snickers:

Are you involved with a woman?

Does she wear shoes?

Einstein chimes in.

I simply politely the maitre d' ask if there was an area where the woman could privately feed her child and suggested she might feel more comfortable there. It was about improving the dining experience for the maximum amount of people.

It has taken a while but your Mom is getting use to wearing shoes.

[CrystalTears]

The maitre'd should have moved YOU if YOU were the one uncomfortable. Moving the woman was highly irregular, IMO.

[xtc]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
The maitre'd should have moved YOU if YOU were the one uncomfortable. Moving the woman was highly irregular, IMO.

I wasn't the only one who was uncomfortable. It wasn't my intention to embarrass anyone. The woman was very graceful and kindly accepted a spot in a private room.

[Caiylania]

1. Because deep down I hope that you come to realize how demeaning and retarded those beleifs are.

2. I'll rephrase. The actions you do and others like you (getting them to leave dining areas, public places do to seeing a child being held to its mother's chest) make many women just give up because of how they are treated.

3. Of course you won't. See you get offended you go home, life goes on. That woman get's kicked out for breast -feeding and it affects her and her family and what happens to them. Just because you can't handle it. Aren't you proud?

4. You were the one who brought it up saying that women shouldn't bring kids there anyway do blah blah blah blah.

5. I was concerned with my fellow diners. I had a nursing bra, nursing shirt and blanket. NOTHING could be seen. I was more covered up than a nun at mass. To me people getting freaked out about a baby eating under there would be like you going, sir waiter, please remove that woman over there because she is NAKED UNDER her CLOTHES.

6. I have had plenty of 'luck' eating at very fine resteraunts while breast feeding. I guess prudes like you are more rare than you think. Which I am MIGHTY grateful for.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Caiylania]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by CrystalTears
The maitre'd should have moved YOU if YOU were the one uncomfortable. Moving the woman was highly irregular, IMO.

I wasn't the only one who was uncomfortable. It wasn't my intention to embarrass anyone. The woman was very graceful and kindly accepted a spot in a private room.

I sincerely doubt that enough people around her who were uncomfortable enough to all comment on someone's breastfeeding unless she was being disruptive about it. If it was more than 2 people, then they are the problem, not the woman.

[Edited on 6/8/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Caiylania]

and I keep misspelling restaraunts. which is amusing to me.

[Amaron]

Hey XTC>>>

My husband went out every sunday to the same nice restautant. when I say nice I mean sit down where the waitor or waitress are dressed neatly the place it decorated nicely and each meal was about $30 so nicer than friendly's

I fed my baby at the table as they had NO place besides a toilet to do so.

I did this every week and other than feeding her she was very very quiet. Most folks commented they didnt even know she was there.

The manager came over while I was feeding her and had NO problem. As I said we started eating there everyweek. No problems.

Get over it.

J

[Overlord]

*Observes women tearing into his fellow males, and does jack shit because the females are correct*

Besides, so long as I don't see a woman resembling a hippo spilling her breast onto a table to feed her child....its cool with me.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania
1. Because deep down I hope that you come to realize how demeaning and retarded those beleifs are.

2. I'll rephrase. The actions you do and others like you (getting them to leave dining areas, public places do to seeing a child being held to its mother's chest) make many women just give up because of how they are treated.

3. Of course you won't. See you get offended you go home, life goes on. That woman get's kicked out for breast -feeding and it affects her and her family and what happens to them. Just because you can't handle it. Aren't you proud?

4. You were the one who brought it up saying that women shouldn't bring kids there anyway do blah blah blah blah.

5. I was concerned with my fellow diners. I had a nursing bra, nursing shirt and blanket. NOTHING could be seen. I was more covered up than a nun at mass. To me people getting freaked out about a baby eating under there would be like you going, sir waiter, please remove that woman over there because she is NAKED UNDER her CLOTHES.

6. I have had plenty of 'luck' eating at very fine resteraunts while breast feeding. I guess prudes like you are more rare than you think. Which I am MIGHTY grateful for.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Caiylania]

1. I believe my beliefs are traditional, neither demeaning or retarded. As you can see I am not alone in my beliefs.


2. I have never directly approached a woman. I don’t want to embarrass her, I have discreetly spoken to restaurant management who has accommodated her with a more private area to dine.


3. No one has been kicked out, simply given a private atmosphere to dine in.

4. Whatever

5. I am pleased to see you were considerate in feeding your child. My argument is simply that most mothers don’t breast feed beyond 6 months. I don’t think it is unreasonable to abstain from public feeding, especially in restaurants, for a short period of time. I have never approached a Maitre’D as you have outlined.

6. I have never been considered a prude. As I have said I guess we eat in different places.

[CrystalTears]

1. Actually, right now, here in this thread, you are.

5. So women shouldn't be able to go anywhere for the first 6 months of the child's life because you're too close-minded to see a woman holding her child with the possibility that a small nipple, that you can't see, is feeding a child. Talk about selfish.

[Caiylania]

1. They are demeaning. Though I don't breast feed currently, I did and will do so again. and I find them demeaning.

2. It is the actions taken against these mothers. By people like you making them feel that way. No, you didn't have the balls to talk to her yourself. But she knows a customer must have complained, therefore, yes, you and those like you hurt her.

3. Forced to move because of those who can not mind their own buisness. Would you ask an inter-racial couple to be moved out of your eyesight? Hm?

/

5. I do think it is unreasonable. I repeat, some women can not pump. Should they not be allowed to leave their house? Babies are hungry when they are hungry. You can't schedule it. Nor should we have to. I'm offended by men wearing thongs, but I have no right to request they all get moved to an area of the pool I don't have to see them.

6. I consider you one now. And I'm glad we don't.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania
1. They are demeaning. Though I don't breast feed currently, I did and will do so again. and I find them demeaning.

2. It is the actions taken against these mothers. By people like you making them feel that way. No, you didn't have the balls to talk to her yourself. But she knows a customer must have complained, therefore, yes, you and those like you hurt her.

3. Forced to move because of those who can not mind their own buisness. Would you ask an inter-racial couple to be moved out of your eyesight? Hm?

/

5. I do think it is unreasonable. I repeat, some women can not pump. Should they not be allowed to leave their house? Babies are hungry when they are hungry. You can't schedule it. Nor should we have to. I'm offended by men wearing thongs, but I have no right to request they all get moved to an area of the pool I don't have to see them.

6. I consider you one now. And I'm glad we don't.

1. Your opinion I will live.

2. I approach the Maitre D' to do it in the best possible fashion. I would have no qualms about approaching the woman myself, if the Maitre D' didn't deal with it. I hurt her? Please people are responsible for their own feelings.

3. Asked not forced. The table she gets is usually highly desirable. Inter-racial couple? Huh stay on topic.

5. You bring up a good point; woman who can pump, can bottle it for public. Those who can’t can use formula for a few hours.

6. I am unconcerned with your opinion of me.

[DeV]

Women shouldn't have to pump unless they feel like its a feasible option for them. I hear it's a drag unless you have one of those expensive automatic types anyway.

Also, it wouldn't be that hard to take a guess and realize that babies who breastfeed probably wouldn't like the taste of formula.

Lastly, if you were unconcerned with her opinion, you wouldn't reply to her posts nor would you make it known that no one's ever thought you to be a prude which is highly unbelievable.

[CrystalTears]

If she wasn't forced, then you're saying that she can sit there and say she refuses to move. What then? Are you going to insist that she move or will you move instead? Why does it have to be HER problem when YOU'RE the one going out of YOUR way to be uncomfortable? Had you kept your eyes on your own table and party, it wouldn't be an issue.

[Caiylania]

So because you can't handle it, a woman in public must then be forced to use formula? you are forcing a life style choice on them then.

The comment on inter-racial couple was based on a quote I did from the original article. Go back and read it.

and you are right, you are responsible for your own feelings, not the breast feeding mother. Go deal with them and don't force them on her.

It'll be O.K when every single recently-preggers breastfeeding woman also has a size 2 or less waist to boot.

[xtc]

One hour of formula for a minority of woman who can't pump.

Public breast feeding isn't guaranteed in the Civil Rights Act so comparing it to an inter-racial couple is stupid. It doesn't matter if the article did it first.

I will continue to address women who breast feed in public. I am assuming you will continue to breast feed. Luckily I don't eat in TGIF Fridays or Denny's.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by xtc
One hour of formula for a minority of woman who can't pump.

Public breast feeding isn't guaranteed in the Civil Rights Act so comparing it to an inter-racial couple is stupid. It doesn't matter if the article did it first.

I will continue to address women who breast feed in public. I am assuming you will continue to breast feed. Luckily I don't eat in TGIF Fridays or Denny's.

It is a civil liberty as much as your right to speak out against it. It is one women are born with, one that can not and should not be limited by people with limited abilities in opening their minds.

Doctor's often tell mother's who breast feed not to bottle feed if they can help it and not to give formula. It can hurt the child's digestive system to be switched back and forth. Once again, child's needs over rule your idiocy.

as for your last comment, I'm not sure if that is a dig or not, and it shouldn't even matter (oohhh you are wealthy..... yay for you) but I eat often at very high rated food establishments. Leave it to you to imply that it matters :P

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Caiylania]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
If she wasn't forced, then you're saying that she can sit there and say she refuses to move. What then? Are you going to insist that she move or will you move instead? Why does it have to be HER problem when YOU'RE the one going out of YOUR way to be uncomfortable? Had you kept your eyes on your own table and party, it wouldn't be an issue.

THATS THE POINT. READ IT AGAIN NAYSAYERS!

Stop fucking staring, and you wont have a problem. Xtc you are sounding fucking retarded. Keep your eyes off women's tits, and you wont get embarassed.

Edited because Xtc != Xyelin

[Edited on 8-6-05 by Nieninque]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Caiylania

It is a civil liberty as much as your right to speak out against it. It is one women are born with, one that can not and should not be limited by people with limited abilities in opening their minds.

Doctor's often tell mother's who breast feed not to bottle feed if they can help it and not to give formula. It can hurt the child's digestive system to be switched back and forth. Once again, child's needs over rule your idoicy.

as for your last comment, I'm not sure if that is a dig or not, and it shouldn't even matter (oohhh you are wealthy..... yay for you) but I eat often at very high rated food establishments. Leave it to you to imply that it matters :P

1. My point was you can't compare race and breast feeding.

2. What % of women can't pump? For that very small % they could avoid dining out with their child for a few months, if they choose not to give him/her the occasional bottle.

3. Not a dig, both are family restaurants.

[DeV]

This country is supposed to be progressive with regard to public breast feeding. The laws provide much protection for nursing mothers in the U.S. Most states, including Illinois, have civil legislation that prohibits businesses or municipalities from telling a woman she can't nurse in public.

I completely agree with Caiy on this issue.

[xtc]

ok I am done with this thread.

[sally]

As far as I'm concered if a woman is breast feeding ....she is feeding an infant for it's livelyhood. She is not pissing..she is not masturbating she's feeding her child. Why would she be forced to get up and leave. What are her options...hiding in a nasty bathroom sitting on a toilet or sitting out in a hot car? I personally was descrete about it always because I'm shy. But honestly I wouldn't care if someone whipped out a breast anywhere in public and started feeding her hungry child. If children are around you tell them she's feeding her baby. If someone is offended by seeing a breast they are way too uptight. Just seems the laws are made by men.

[Caiylania]

One guy was honest and told me it was because he felt with formula out, breasts should be for men only. :(

Just don't get you xtc, really don't.

The fact is, if I am a paying customer I do not want to have to sit there while a woman is breast feeding. It can be done elsewhere where others who don't want to see it don't have to. Natural? Sure, but that does not mean it has to be done in public. Just because one thing doesn't offend you that doesn't mean it doesn't offend others.

Take second hand smoke. I remember a lot of you non-smokers wanted smoking banned in bars. NOT ONE UNBIASED STUDY HAS LINKED SECOND HAND SMOKING TO CANCER!!! Don't like it? Don't go do the bars. Yeeeaaah that worked real well, huh?

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

"It has taken a while but your Mom is getting use to wearing shoes."

Gosh gee, Dad.... suprising how she ended up a college professor with your Puritanical/1950's assumptions.

You have not a single leg to stand on, so you bow out.

"It's not proper."

"Why?"

"It's not proper."

Maybe someday you'll not feel obligated to stare.

[Warriorbird]

So, Arkans... why is it so terrifying? Is it a man thing? Several gay folks seem to support it.

[CrystalTears]

I just want to know for those against it this badly...

a) What do you find offensive about it?

b) Is it THAT obvious to a casual passerby or glance around a restaurant that you would need to say something because it distubs you so?

If the second hand smoke hasn't had any link to physical damage, why is smoking banned in so many places, including bars? I can say for a fact that it's harmful to people with asthma, without even touching cancer probabilities. It is physically harmful. Seeing someone breastfeed a child is not hurting anyone else. If it is, then you need to seek help.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
The fact is, if I am a paying customer I do not want to have to sit there while a woman is breast feeding. It can be done elsewhere where others who don't want to see it don't have to. Natural? Sure, but that does not mean it has to be done in public. Just because one thing doesn't offend you that doesn't mean it doesn't offend others.The thing is, how do you begin to try to accomodate someone who easily offends? I mean, you're offended by so many things, how do you prioritize it all? I bet you used to smoke at restaurants all the time before and never once did you care that you were probably offending someone who had to breathe in that garbage.

What exactly about it offends you?


NOT ONE UNBIASED STUDY HAS LINKED SECOND HAND SMOKING TO CANCER!!! Don't like it? Don't go do the bars. Yeeeaaah that worked real well, huh?

- Arkans That's exactly how I handle second hand smoke now. I don't like it so I don't go around it or at least try not to. I don't impede on anothers right to smoke in public and what's the point in complaining about something that is allowed.

Anyway, comparing second hand cigarette smoke to a baby feeding off of one of the greastest things know to man(I mean the milk too) is not logical.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Take second hand smoke. I remember a lot of you non-smokers wanted smoking banned in bars. NOT ONE UNBIASED STUDY HAS LINKED SECOND HAND SMOKING TO CANCER!!! Don't like it? Don't go do the bars. Yeeeaaah that worked real well, huh?


This is relevant only if there is the fear of the mother's breast milk getting out of control and onto/into your body.

Jorddyn

[xtc]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"It has taken a while but your Mom is getting use to wearing shoes."

Gosh gee, Dad.... suprising how she ended up a college professor with your Puritanical/1950's assumptions.

You have not a single leg to stand on, so you bow out.

"It's not proper."

"Why?"

"It's not proper."

Maybe someday you'll not feel obligated to stare.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

________________________________________
Originally posted by xtc

It has taken a while but your Mom is getting use to wearing shoes.
________________________________________

You would never guess your mother is a Professor.

[CrystalTears]

Either way, xtc, it was a low blow insult just because you haven't been able to support your rationalization for not liking breastfeeding in public.

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc
Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

Judging from the way he posts it most certainly is one of them.

Furthermore...
Originally posted by xtc
ok I am done with this thread.

[xtc]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Either way, xtc, it was a low blow insult just because you haven't been able to support your rationalization for not liking breastfeeding in public.

I believe I have supported my argument aptly. Most pregnant women can bottle their own milk but I digress.

Yes it is a low blow but Warriorbird opened the gates.

[xtc]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by xtc
Reading comprehension is not your strong point.

Judging from the way he posts it most certainly is one of them.

Furthermore...
Originally posted by xtc
ok I am done with this thread.

That would be writing comprehension and you are correct I have been sucked back in.

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc
That would be writing comprehension and you are correct I have been sucked back in. Judging from his replies he seemed to comprehend just fine.

Welcome back.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Either way, xtc, it was a low blow insult just because you haven't been able to support your rationalization for not liking breastfeeding in public.

I believe I have supported my argument aptly. Most pregnant women can bottle their own milk but I digress.

Yes it is a low blow but Warriorbird opened the gates.

You haven't explained how or why it bothers you.

Just because there is an option to bottle milk doesn't mean that it's an obligation to do so.

And you'll have to excuse me if I didn't remember your other reasons for being against it because I was still getting over the part of breastfeeding mothers getting aroused by it, as if you even know all the times that a woman is aroused which would impede on your precious nerves.

[Delirium]

a) What do you find offensive about it?

b) Is it THAT obvious to a casual passerby or glance around a restaurant that you would need to say something because it distubs you so?

Its not offensive as much as it isnt what i want around me when im eating. No, it isnt that obvious to a passerby casually looking around for MOST people. Its the bad apple that spoils the bunch. Since there is no possible way to have a law that would enforce discreetness, then they should just make a room for such things. Heck id even settle for outlawing it in resteraunts. Have the women go outside if its summer or in a seperate lobby to do it.

I dont think it would be too much to ask for to have that not be done around people eating in public. It wouldnt bug me one bit if it happened at a mall or whereever. Its the point im putting food in my mouth and someone who isnt a model is exposing "private" skin id rather not see. It turns into the whole car accident on the side of the road thing. You dont want to look but feel compelled to do so even tho your seeing horrible things.

[Rangerpuff]

As a mother of four children, I totally agree with Caiylania. All of my children were breastfed. The benefits alloted my family, far outweigh any uptight weirdo's preception of breastfeeding. Not only financially did we save a ton of money, but the health benefits, and the closeness it brought were more than worth it.

My oldest daughter was breasfed for nine months, her sister, 13 months younger, only for about eight weeks or so(medical prolems kept her from nursing longer). When the younger of the two got the chicken pox, I just knew both of them would get them, as they shared the same bed. My oldest never got them, I truely believe it is because of the antibodies she recieved from breastmilk.

None of my four children have had to deal with ear infections, sinus infections or the flu..ever. My oldest is 12.

Why on earth would I pump milk into a bottle, carry a container specifically for it, then ask a waiter at a restaurant if he could heat up the bottle containing breastmilk, fully knowing that if he micro-waved it, it would break down important nutrients and enzymes contained within the milk? Also why deprive my child of special bonding time with his/her mother.

I think I can speak for plenty of mother's who have breastfed, when I say, never did I experience any sort of sexual stimulation from breastfeeding my children. I did however go through very sore nipples, intensely painful uterine contraction, none wich were pleasant..only what felt like labor contractions, that only became worse with each child. Note, these contractions were only during the first two weeks of nursing, also were the sore nipples. So I'm would say to new mothers stick with it and don't get discouraged. It is truely worth it.

I would like to add, I've never flopped my breast out in public, I always used a blanket and or a nursing shirt, or when it was extremely hot, as we lived in Turkey, I used a semi sheer scarf to cover the babies head. My children deserved the best start they could have, the benefits from nursing them still continue as they grow. There were times I would pull the blanket off of the Babies face, and peek down at him and her, as all mothers should be able to look at their babies when they eat, and father's as well, it's a good time for social bonding. If some idiot caught a glimpse of the top part of my breast and was offended by it, I'd say quit watching TV, or movies, for you'll see far more than what was revealed when I fed my baby.

Merji's Muse.
Proud to have Breastfed her children.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Rangerpuff
uptight weirdo's preception of breastfeeding.

Nothing else in your post matters from that point on. Labelling someone as a weirdo because they don't think like you pretty much promises me that whatever you're saying past that is mindless ranting.

There is a time and a place for everything. In a park? Fine. At the movies? Ok. At a resturant at the table? No.

The real issue is having children of that age in resturants in general but I won't get into that here.

[Delirium]

Just as clarification. Im NOT saying breastfeeding is bad. I think all moms should do it if they can. The issue is if it should be done in public.

I agree. Breast feed all you want. I, simply, find it distasteful. Seeing it would honestly put a damper on my meal. There is absolutely NO reason why this should happen if I am a paying customer. Having a mother breastfeed while I am eating is not something that I will through if I am paying. Just as I expect a waiter or what not to speak to a disgusting customer about excessive and loud belching.

Now, as far as me smoking in bars it is a well known fact that alcohol and cigarettes go well together. Its something that we as a society do. Breastfeeding and say.. a dinner that I took some nice lady too? Give me a break.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I see nothing disgusting about a tiny bit of boob exposed to feed a child.

Low cleavages seem to be okay, see-through blouses are okay, but the slightest hint of skin next to a baby's mouth in her arms is tacky?

Not tacky, just something I find distasteful. I also do not find birth "beautiful", I find it disgusting.

- Arkans

[4a6c1]

It is disgusting. There are just some things you should do in private.

[CrystalTears]

Okay but we're not asking to give birth in the middle of a restaurant (although there's no way to hold it if water breaks, but anyhoo). We're talking about just the breastfeeding.

I'm just curious what is so distasteful about it. Would you complain if a man had his hand on his woman's breast at the dinner table? Would you say something if water spilled on her shirt and now you can see the nipple through the blouse? If her shirt was unbuttoned too far down and shows more of her breast, would you complain?

[Leetahkin]

Oh Arkans, if you took a nice lady out to dinner, you shouldn't even be fully aware of what's going on around you. Stay focused on your chick, man!

And you're still using differing examples - one is visual, the other aural.

Yes on all accounts, CT. A restaurant is a place to eat. A place to bring the family, a date, a corporate meeting. All these atmospheres are not apporiate to breastfeed.

It's really in the same line as birth though. Some people find birth beautiful and natuaral like breastfeeding. I find them both gross. I find milk coming out of a woman's breasts gross. I don't want to be forced to eat my meal in the same room that it is happening. I don't think it is THAT unreasonable of a paying customer to demand this.

- Arkans

So what? One sense is more important than another? Both offend, simple as that.

And please! You think I can pay attention that long!??!?! I'm a guy!

- Arkans

"Yep, mmmhmmm, that's right.. yup.. Oh yeah... huhhuh..."

[Delirium]

Hell yes id complain if a someone was fondeling a woman while i ate or id just go right up and tell them to get a room. Ive never come across water being spilled on a womans shirt and her nipple being seeable at a resteraunt. Id assume it was an accident tho and that it wouldnt be an ongoing thing. The cleavage showing isnt the same as breastfeeding. If it was such that her whole boob including nipple was showing and it wasnt a particularly attractive woman, then yes id complain or leave. Same thing if someone started brushing their teeth at the table. Sure its good and healthy,,most have the sense to do those things in private tho.

[Rangerpuff]

[ [/quote]Nothing else in your post matters from that point on. Labelling someone as a weirdo because they don't think like you pretty much promises me that whatever you're saying past that is mindless ranting. [/quote]

Yes, to me people who see breasfeeding for more than what it actually is, are weird, and odd. People who somehow see breasfeeding as sexual are weird and odd, in my opinion.

That's what it's about right, everyone's individual opion? Who you find to be odd and weird will vary greatly from my idea of odd and weird, I'm sure.

Being a military wife, it is often impossible to be at home and eating, we move and must take advantage of restaurant eating, family style. I certainly am not going to have my 12 year old eating her dinner in the bathroom, nor would I have wanted her to do so when she was two weeks old.

Because of the sexual emphasis put on breasts in this country, there will always be this debate. Thank goodnes however, that the needs of children, mothers, and families are being put above our societal hang ups.

I don't hate anyone because they are afraid of babies eating..I think your just misinformed or perhaps..yes..weird..in my opinion.

Rangerpuff, seriously, leave the debate. Right now. If all you can do is throw insults and call people weird then you really need to mature a bit and learn to debate. Sorry.

- Arkans

[4a6c1]

Jesus. I dont go around asking people why things are disgusting to them, demanding to know why. Sometimes things just are how they are. People just dont want to see whats nasty to them.

OMG WHY DONT U LOVE TEH KINKS???

[CrystalTears]

We're all different, which is fine. I just can't understand why what someone does at their table is of any concern to anyone else unless they were being overly vulgar. :shrug:

Just out of curiousity, have you even seen someone breastfeed a child? You really do find it disgusting, regardless of whether you're eating or not?

And yes, if someone says something is disgusting in a conversation, I ask them why. They answer me. They don't give me shit for being curious. :P

[Edited on 6/8/2005 by CrystalTears]

Have I seen it? Seriously, how could I feel strongly about the matter and have NOT seen it? I find it gross. Plain and simple. If they are in my line of sight, then damn right I can complain even it is at their table. I have and will again in the future if I see it.

- Arkans

[4a6c1]

I've seen someone close to me breastfeeding her child. I thought I was going to throw up. Not sure why that matters.

:barf:

[CrystalTears]

Well if people can say to a mother that her feeding her child is disgusting and distasteful, she can call them weird. I think she's the one getting insulted the most here.

I won't ask anymore about the why's. I apologize. Irrational fears and disgusts have always interested me to find out more. :shrug:

[Edited on 6/8/2005 by CrystalTears]

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Rangerpuff

Being a military wife, it is often impossible to be at home and eating, we move and must take advantage of restaurant eating, family style. I certainly am not going to have my 12 year old eating her dinner in the bathroom, nor would I have wanted her to do so when she was two weeks old.


Don't agree with that at all considering that military life while in garrison is so structured you're home at 1630 every day.

But what do I know.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Well if people can say to a mother that her feeding her child is disgusting and distasteful, she can call them weird. I think she's the one getting insulted the most here.

I guess. Perhaps to curb all of those emotions though, she should do it in private instead.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

I'll be sure to belch extremely loudly near that mother or tear ass harder than any fat man after eating a can of beans is able too. It's along the same lines. Some things are not approriate and resulting to name calling is.. well.. really losing the arguement.

- Arkans

[Delirium]

So you would be ok, CrystalTears, if people at another table brushed their teeth and spit out the toothpaste in their cup. Then started flossing their teeth as well? Thats not overly vulgar is it? No one is whipping out their penis or anything. You would go right on eating whatever you ordered and not even blink?

Heh.. whenever I'm on Annual Training I can predect to the minute that I will be home.

- Arkans

[Snapp]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Irrational fears and disgusts have always interested me to find out more. :shrug:

Same here, that's why I was asking too. I just don't get it I guess.

[4a6c1]

Everyone is. People who run away from spiders make me giggle too.

Edited to add: I'm not sure its something to judge anyone by though.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Delirium
So you would be ok, CrystalTears, if people at another table brushed their teeth and spit out the toothpaste in their cup. Then started flossing their teeth as well? Thats not overly vulgar is it? No one is whipping out their penis or anything. You would go right on eating whatever you ordered and not even blink?

Yes I would be okay with it. What people do at their table is their business. I've caught people doing outlandish things. I stop, snicker to myself, tell my fiance, tsk a little, then go back to our meal and our own conversation. I have no right to tell them how to behave at their own table, but that's just my opinion.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Have I seen it? Seriously, how could I feel strongly about the matter and have NOT seen it? I find it gross. Plain and simple. If they are in my line of sight, then damn right I can complain even it is at their table. I have and will again in the future if I see it.


Do you think you'll feel differently if/when you have children? About the grossness, that is...

Jorddyn, honestly curious

[CrystalTears]

We already know Arkans knows exactly how he will feel when he has children. He gets really offended if you even think of touching his kid, so I guess telling his wife that her and their child is being disgusting will be A-OK.

[Edited on 6/8/2005 by CrystalTears]

Honestly, no. Another natural process I do not want to be part of is giving birth. I don't need to watch that stretch so much.. lemon... watermelon.. Ugh.

I'll simply ask my wife to use a pump or bottle when we are out in public and when I'm not present when we are in private.

- Arkans

[Rangerpuff]

[/quote]Don't agree with that at all considering that military life while in garrison is so structured you're home at 1630 every day.

But what do I know. [/quote]

Baby number three was born in NV, five weeks later I had to return to Wyoming. I had to travel with him, he had to eat..

Baby number four was born in Turkey..four months later we were sent back stateside, again she had to eat..

I didn't say we were forced to be away from home forever, nor did I say we had to eat out all the time. However there were definatly time periods when the military made it impossible for me to be in my home, feeding my child...away from any public eye.

Though I know your military, but have you ever been a military pregnant or nursing spouse? This is a whole different experience, trust me.

It won't be an issue. My wife will not be doing that while I am present. I'd like to assume that she will conform to my views as much as I conform to her's. Marriage is all about compromises.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

I'm just sort've puzzled about what's "gross" about a little baby and a nipple, mostly covered. Again, I think a baby having baby food smeared all over their face is a fair bit more gross.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Warriorbird]

I just find it distasteful. Simple as that.

- Arkans

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I'm just sort've puzzled about what's "gross" about a little baby and a nipple, mostly covered.

Yeah, i feel the same about little spiders and the people who are afraid of them.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[DeV]

Using a little bit of common sense helps as well, along with a little discretion about where and how you nurse in public.

Anyone have any breast feeding horror stories to shed some additional light on the subject?

[Warriorbird]

So you're saying you'd find your wife (who you theoretically found sexually attractive enough to knock up) and your kid in close contact is somehow disgusting, Arkans?

Man. What a repressed, confusing, world some people live in.

Jihna, in turn, you're much more open-minded than Arkans comes across as about a lot of things. Even more boggling.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Warriorbird]

[4a6c1]

:-/

I'm boggled you dont think its gross.

[Warriorbird]

I come from a huge family. I've been around both a whole lot of bottle-feeding/baby food giving and breast-feeding. The health (and un fat assness, Arkans you should appreciate that) of the children who were breastfed and the sheer horror of parents doing things like giving their developing kids soda in baby bottles sort've angled things forever in my mind.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Warriorbird]

[CrystalTears]

I'm creeped out by spiders. I don't mind people making fun of me for it because I do admit that it's an irrational fear, and hopefully some day I'll get over it.

However if I was out somewhere and saw someone had a spider in their hand, I wouldn't ask that they go somewhere else with it. Hell I'd move myself first.

They are none of my business, they are not putting it in my face, they are not near me to affect me. Me trying to impose my views on them is what's disgusting to me, not the spider in their possession.

I don't see this as any different.

[4a6c1]

Haha. Point well made.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I'm creeped out by spiders. I don't mind people making fun of me for it because I do admit that it's an irrational fear, and hopefully some day I'll get over it.

However if I was out somewhere and saw someone had a spider in their hand, I wouldn't ask that they go somewhere else with it. Hell I'd move myself first.

They are none of my business, they are not putting it in my face, they are not near me to affect me. Me trying to impose my views on them is what's disgusting to me, not the spider in their possession.

I don't see this as any different.

I can sit next to you in a resturant and talk loudly about the massive shit I just took, what color it was, how I named it, the different things I found it it, etc. You're going to find it rude and ask to move thus putting a damper on your meal/evening. Is this to say no one should ever take a shit? No. Is there a time and a place to do/expose other people to such things (I guess if your into that)? Yes.

[Edaarin]

You can knock up your wife, but you don't do it in public.

That analogy sucks.

[Warriorbird]

Still the equation of two very unrelated things. If you're not staring...

[Back]

Maybe its to close to cannibalism? Or just body fluids being passed from one human being to another. In that way I could see how it might not be acceptable at Ruth’s Chris or Denny’s for that matter.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Edaarin
but you don't do it in public.


Speak for yourself.

[Delirium]

I seriously dont understand why its such a big deal really. To me its more irrational to insist you have the right to feed your baby right here, right now at the resteraunt table. You could have fed them before or you could do it right after. But the NEED to subject everyone in the resteraunt to it seems to be an issue. Heck you could feed them in the car right before you went into the resteraunt. Or even better since the baby isnt eating, you could get a babysitter or grandma to watch the small infant in the first place.

[4a6c1]

Umm, I vote we change the thread to knocking up wives in public.

:whistle:

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Backlash
Maybe its to close to cannibalism? Or just body fluids being passed from one human being to another. In that way I could see how it might not be acceptable at Ruth’s Chris or Denny’s for that matter.

I don't agree with that. If that's the case a girl swallowing would be too close to cannibalism.

[Warriorbird]

"Son, you shoulda been cannibalized!" takes on a whole new meaning.

:snickers:

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I can sit next to you in a resturant and talk loudly about the massive shit I just took, what color it was, how I named it, the different things I found it it, etc. You're going to find it rude and ask to move thus putting a damper on your meal/evening. Is this to say no one should ever take a shit? No. Is there a time and a place to do/expose other people to such things (I guess if your into that)? Yes.

To answer your question, I would probably move because you're being loud and obnoxious, not really caring what you were talking about.

I also find it sad that you would compare breastfeeding to taking a shit.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm talking about any action in public that would disrupt my enjoyment of the evening.

Again personally I don't care if people breastfeed if they don't mind that I look.

It's happened before woman was breastfeeding I was looking she said "What are you looking at?" I replied "Your kid latched on to your boobie." End of discussion.

[CrystalTears]

What I'm saying is that if I chose to look, stare, overhear a gross conversation, that was my problem, not theirs, for interferring and making myself uncomfortable. I would remove myself because I brought that on to myself.

To tell others to move because of something you find offensive is unfair since offensive is subjective to each individual and shouldn't be appeased at will unless it was elevated by several people at the same time. One person shouldn't have that much control in a public environment.

I guess I'm just not that selfish to think that the world revolves around me.

Not even going to touch the "I should stare at whatever I want" argument.

[Amaron]

Goodness I am going home from work and hugging my hubby.

Now matter how much we disagree on things he always supported my choice to breastfeed and give our children the best start at life we could. He never keft the room when I was breastfeeding...

He would acually sit behind me and hold the baby too as to not be left out of our bonding.

He was happy that we had few sinus infections, illnesses or allergies that make kids cry and scream. If a lil breast can bring A LOT of peace its worth it.

My mother in law and brother in law were a bit squimish but the first time they said they had a nice chair in the back room for me I explained I was part of the family and would remain out with the family.

I covered their ( babies) heads with a light blanket and all was well.


If a restaurant has a comfortable place that is private I have no problem going there but I refuse to juggle a baby on the toilet to feed it.

J

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I'm talking about any action in public that would disrupt my enjoyment of the evening.

Again personally I don't care if people breastfeed if they don't mind that I look.


Anticor, I love you and normally agree with you, but you are coming at this issue from the wrong perspective.

Once more, this is not about ANY action, but one specific one, to compare it to taking a shit, or farting at length is not in any way an acceptable analogy and is in fact merely an attempt to pass on the inherent dirtyness of such an action onto breastfeeding.

It has about as much validity as those who try to make the comparison of same sex unions with beastiality.

Do you peer over into the urinal of the guy standing next to you? I mean after all he's right there asking for it, right? That is what the whole staring thing sounds like to me.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Arkans
I just find it distasteful. Simple as that.

- Arkans

It actually tastes good.. you should try some.

[Delirium]

To tell others to move because of something you find offensive is unfair since offensive is subjective to each individual and shouldn't be appeased at will unless it was elevated by several people at the same time. One person shouldn't have that much control in a public environment.

Wow! Do you really believe this? Gonna have to clarify,,the "unless it was elevated by several people at the same time" part. Does that mean unless several people are offended or several people are being disruptive? If the latter then you really wouldnt object to anything that happened? Even a penis being whipped out or anything? You wouldnt "impose" your will on anyone?


Not even going to touch the "I should stare at whatever I want" argument.

Ive always thought women are silly in this. The oldest step daughter here in high school would go to school when she was a senior wearing dang near boobie tassles only on top. Then would promptly come home and complain all the boys stared. Hello? If ya dont like the looks then put on some clothes. However you show yourself in public people are gonna notice.

Dress like a homeless bum, people will think you are homeless. Dress like a hooker, people will notice and either appreciate(stare) or think youre a slut. "I should be able to go out and do anything i want in public, even walk around naked and not have any consequences for my actions". Thats not reality.

[DeV]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
It's happened before woman was breastfeeding I was looking she said "What are you looking at?" I replied "Your kid latched on to your boobie." End of discussion. I don't see the problem with that. Women deal with that shit all the time when they aren't breast feeding, just normal day to day things.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I'm talking about any action in public that would disrupt my enjoyment of the evening.

Again personally I don't care if people breastfeed if they don't mind that I look.


Anticor, I love you and normally agree with you, but you are coming at this issue from the wrong perspective.

Once more, this is not about ANY action, but one specific one, to compare it to taking a shit, or farting at length is not in any way an acceptable analogy and is in fact merely an attempt to pass on the inherent dirtyness of such an action onto breastfeeding.

It has about as much validity as those who try to make the comparison of same sex unions with beastiality.

Do you peer over into the urinal of the guy standing next to you? I mean after all he's right there asking for it, right? That is what the whole staring thing sounds like to me.

Urinals have walls between them for a reason.

I used the taking a dump example because I figured it was something most people could find as offensive at a resturant table. Is breastfeeding the same as building a coffee table one leg at a time? No.

You have to understand that personally I could care less. There is a reason I was in the service and it was to protect freedoms, freedom to feed your kid, freedom to smoke, etc. But there should be some common courtesy on all sides here and it looks like everyone that's pro suckling has forgotten the fact that they are being blind to the wants of others.

My biggest gripe with the whole situation is one I won't get into and that's the little kids at resturants in general heh. I'll leave it at that.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
It's happened before woman was breastfeeding I was looking she said "What are you looking at?" I replied "Your kid latched on to your boobie." End of discussion. I don't see the problem with that. Women deal with that shit all the time when they aren't breast feeding, just normal day to day things.

Dev you can't play the sex card in this one. Women are just as bad if not worse when it comes to the package glance. Trust me. Walk with a guy and watch every girl that walks towards him. A mall is perfect for this fyi. I've noticed that most girls do the exact same thing, check the package then look at my eyes. Almost every freakin time. Cracks me up.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

My biggest gripe with the whole situation is one I won't get into and that's the little kids at resturants in general heh. I'll leave it at that.

Well I have more of an issue with children crying/screaming non stop myself.

you can not "look the other way" from a scream. in those cases I agree that if unable to pacify the child, the parents should either both leave, or one take the child outside or to a more secluded area until they are more under control.

My own parents did that and in fact very often had to take turns while my one sister was very young as she was incredibly fussy.

So, do not think I am uncaring about the feeling of my fellow diners in the case we were discussing earlier, I simply think it is not such a herculean effort to not stare directly at a woman discretely breastfeeding, while unruly/screaming/crying children are much more difficult to ignore.

[AnticorRifling]

Nor does it take the effort of atlas to move yourself out of public display when breastfeeding.

(See that I was all retort to your herculean with my atlas damn I'm smooth)

[DeV]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Dev you can't play the sex card in this one. Women are just as bad if not worse when it comes to the package glance. Trust me. Walk with a guy and watch every girl that walks towards him. A mall is perfect for this fyi. I've noticed that most girls do the exact same thing, check the package then look at my eyes. Almost every freakin time. Cracks me up. The sex card... lol. That doesn't need to get played by me; hell, I stare at good looking women and their "accessories" all the time. Discreetly of course. Point is, it doesn't matter who's doing the looking, guys or girls can be made to feel uncomfortable and both have ways of dealing with it without telling someone they can't do it simply because it makes you uncomfortable. Especially when there's a law made specifically for people who feel it shoulnd't even be allowed let alone tolerated.

I don't know, maybe you missed my point but I don't see how you figured I was playing the sex card from my post.

As I stated originally, I don't see a problem with what you said or the fact that the woman was breastfeeding.

[Tsa`ah]

Heh ... talk about a thread blowing up.

Thankfully most residents in this state aren't as close minded as some examples in this thread.

1. Your rights never take precedence over another person's, as well as the opposite. So the statement of "Their rights end where mine begin" is horse shit logic. Breast feeding does not infringe upon anyone's rights.

2. The status claims are so fucking Tamralish it's not even funny.

3. Being the father of two with one on the way, I can tell you that a woman gets a little stir crazy being stuck at home after giving birth. New mothers really need to get out once or twice a week or just suffer from post partum.

4. I've taken my wife to Denny's and TGIF, as well as Ruth's Chris and a number of other finer establishments. In the end it comes out the same no matter where you eat. Of the three times my wife was asked to feed our children elsewhere, none were at establishments that charge in excess of 50 -100 dollars for the entree. Once at TGIF, at which point our quietly feeding child was removed from the breast and started screaming. Once at a campus diner, to the same effect, and once at Chi Chi's ... to the same effect. Each time the manager apologized and told the wife that her feeding wasn't really that much of a disturbance.


I am entitled to eat my meal in peace and quiet without being offended.

As are the paying women feeding their children. Stop looking for offence and you'll find that you're offended less often.


I highly doubt any child so young they are still being breast fed, could keep quiet for the duration of a meal.

And how many children do you have exactly? Children vary, some are noisy, some are physically rambunctious, and some are calm and quiet. I have two that were the calm quiet types and only cried when they were hungry, needed their diaper changed, needed burped, were sick, or needed attention. Since we never took our children out when they were sick, they were predominately quiet at restaurants ... unless someone wanted mom to stop feeding them.

Additionally some children, such as mine were, are unable to drink formula ... even the soy varieties. Women also are not able to produce milk upon demand, thus pumping before going out isn't always an option.

Personally I think you have issues. What they are I don't know, but if you are able to single out a breast feeding woman in a restaurant ... you're not paying enough attention to your company or food.

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Delirium
Wow! Do you really believe this?

I wouldn't if I didn't. I'm not the type to state something against what I believe in just to be contrary and start debates. I'm not ... *cough* ...nevermind.


Gonna have to clarify,,the "unless it was elevated by several people at the same time" part. Does that mean unless several people are offended or several people are being disruptive?

I meant that several people would need to complain before action was taken. I'd be really put out if a maitre'd asked a mother to move or stop breastfeeding because ONE person complained. No other manager anywhere that I know of takes action because of one complaint. Two or three all at once? Fine, make the majority happy. If the ONE person is uncomfortable, move them, not the mother.


Even a penis being whipped out or anything?

Heh, I have a feeling if a person whipped out a penis in the middle of a restaurant, the authorities would be taking care of it long before I would even think of complaining, not that I ever would.


You wouldnt "impose" your will on anyone?

I've said quite a few times that I would never impose my will on others. Were they were in my house and being insulting in my presence? You betcha. In public? Not a chance.



Not even going to touch the "I should stare at whatever I want" argument.

Ive always thought women are silly in this. The oldest step daughter here in high school would go to school when she was a senior wearing dang near boobie tassles only on top. Then would promptly come home and complain all the boys stared. Hello? If ya dont like the looks then put on some clothes. However you show yourself in public people are gonna notice.

Sure, they'll notice. Of course people will stare. She's silly to think they wouldn't. What people DON'T have the right of doing is insulting or hurting her over it.


Dress like a homeless bum, people will think you are homeless. Dress like a hooker, people will notice and either appreciate(stare) or think youre a slut. "I should be able to go out and do anything i want in public, even walk around naked and not have any consequences for my actions". Thats not reality.

I don't see how dressing like a bum or a whore has anything to do with a woman quietly and discreetly breastfeeding a child, considering that the first is obvious and the second isn't.

As Tsa`ah stated, if you're able to look around single out the breastfeeder and focus enough on it to allow yourself to be grossed about it, then you're not paying enough attention to your own life, dinner and company at your own table.

[Delirium]

I wish i had that ability CT. My girlfriend can get so engrosed in a book that she wont hear anything. Be it someone talking or a fire alarm. Me? I cant not hear what someone is saying unless i plug up my ears. When its an action i find offensive(probably need a better word here) then i cant just ignore it.

I still dont understand why it HAS to be done at a resteraunt. I hear Tsa'ah's point that parents with infants need to get out. I hear other peoples points as well and can agree with most of em. The point i dont get tho is why it has to be done when at a resteraunt? Being a guy im naive i admit. Does the woman's nipple not work unless she too is eating? Why wouldnt it be easier and more enjoyable even to the woman herself to take care of it before they even go eat themselves? I really dont get it.

[Nieninque]

babies need to eat when they are hungry
could be any time

I should switch it up and quickly switch places with the baby, undetected and start sucking the nips instead, like in that scene blockbuster hit, "Me, Myself and Irene," Starring celebrity powerhouse Jim Carry.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Delirium
I still dont understand why it HAS to be done at a resteraunt.

It has to be done when the child is hungry, or else deal with the crying. Some babies are like clock work enabling the mother/father to semi-schedule their adult life, some children are unpredictable.


I hear Tsa'ah's point that parents with infants need to get out. I hear other peoples points as well and can agree with most of em. The point i dont get tho is why it has to be done when at a resteraunt? Being a guy im naive i admit. Does the woman's nipple not work unless she too is eating?

Like babies, all women are different. Some can produce milk at a whim, others empty and need time to replenish. There are all sorts of quirks with women and breast feeding ... and none of them really fall into any semblance of standardization.


Why wouldnt it be easier and more enjoyable even to the woman herself to take care of it before they even go eat themselves? I really dont get it.

When the kid gets hungry the kid gets hungry. Sometimes the baby will take in enough and not make a peep for hours. Sometimes the kid will take in just enough to satiate the hunger, but like Chinese take out, is hungry a short time later. You can't force a kid to feed when they're not hungry, and often they decide it's time to eat at the most inopportune times ... such as at a restaurant.

The questions you have to ask yourself when you witness breast feeding are ...

Would I rather let the woman feed her baby or listen to crying?

Why I letting breast feeding occupy so much of my attention?

Had I not been so damned nosey ... would I even notice that woman breast feeding her child?

[Back]

Hey, even Deniro strapped on a boob to feed his grandkid in “Meet the Fockers.”

[Edit for celebrity misspelling]

[Edited on 6-8-2005 by Backlash]

[Omens]

I dont see how anyone can vote no to some hot milfs pulling out a tit so you can watch while you eat dinner.

Originally posted by Omens
I dont see how anyone can vote no to some hot milfs pulling out a tit so you can watch while you eat dinner.


Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
It'll be O.K when every single recently-preggers breastfeeding woman also has a size 2 or less waist to boot.

[Omens]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell

Originally posted by Omens
I dont see how anyone can vote no to some hot milfs pulling out a tit so you can watch while you eat dinner.


Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
It'll be O.K when every single recently-preggers breastfeeding woman also has a size 2 or less waist to boot.

Amen.

[Delirium]

Would I rather let the woman feed her baby or listen to crying?

Why I letting breast feeding occupy so much of my attention?

Had I not been so damned nosey ... would I even notice that woman breast feeding her child?

Definately rather have them breastfed *somewhere* rather than listening to crying. Maybe someday there will be rooms where women can breastfeed and everyone but the most extreme will be happy.

Lol i dont let breastfeeding take up so much of my time in real life. I started following this thread and felt the need to share my opinion. Before this thread ive thought about breastfeeding in general about once a year and 90% of those thoughts are wondering what it tastes like(like whole milk?).

Hmmm is it noseyness or is it just being perceptive of those around you? I dont like being blindsided by anything so i am aware of my surroundings. If i could change this i would.

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Tamralish



This made me sort of giggle-laugh. Like, not really a chuckle in essence, but more emphasis than a giggle, but by no means a full, hearty laugh.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by Omens
I dont see how anyone can vote no to some hot milfs pulling out a tit so you can watch while you eat dinner.

In real life tho it isnt a bunch of milfs running around flopping out a tit.

[Omens]

Originally posted by Delirium

Originally posted by Omens
I dont see how anyone can vote no to some hot milfs pulling out a tit so you can watch while you eat dinner.

In real life tho it isnt a bunch of milfs running around flopping out a tit.

You need to move.

[Meges]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Caiylania
1. They are demeaning. Though I don't breast feed currently, I did and will do so again. and I find them demeaning.

2. It is the actions taken against these mothers. By people like you making them feel that way. No, you didn't have the balls to talk to her yourself. But she knows a customer must have complained, therefore, yes, you and those like you hurt her.

3. Forced to move because of those who can not mind their own buisness. Would you ask an inter-racial couple to be moved out of your eyesight? Hm?

/

5. I do think it is unreasonable. I repeat, some women can not pump. Should they not be allowed to leave their house? Babies are hungry when they are hungry. You can't schedule it. Nor should we have to. I'm offended by men wearing thongs, but I have no right to request they all get moved to an area of the pool I don't have to see them.

6. I consider you one now. And I'm glad we don't.

1. Your opinion I will live.

2. I approach the Maitre D' to do it in the best possible fashion. I would have no qualms about approaching the woman myself, if the Maitre D' didn't deal with it. I hurt her? Please people are responsible for their own feelings.

3. Asked not forced. The table she gets is usually highly desirable. Inter-racial couple? Huh stay on topic.

5. You bring up a good point; woman who can pump, can bottle it for public. Those who can’t can use formula for a few hours.

6. I am unconcerned with your opinion of me.

You effectively destroyed any merit of your own argument. Since you are obviously unconcerned for other's opinion of you and what you do, then breastfeeding mothers should certainly have no concern of your opinion of them and what they are doing. Fair is fair.

Meges

[Caiylania]

I thought America was supposed to be the land of the free and open minded. Here in Italy, Belgium, pretty much europe, if anyone even bothered a breast feeding mom the rest of the patrons would pretty much kick that person out. Babies and mother's are cherished, and breast feeding is an accepted part of that.

Guess I just don't get why people are grossed out by it. And to compare it to birth is retarded, even I who have done it, think birth was nasty.

As for the smoking, I think its a valid comparison. If someone is smoking and I'm breathing in their second hand smoke (which is an actual physical affect on me that makes me cough and choke) it is MY responsibility to move not theirs.

Same with breast feeding. If it bothers you, why don't you move? Hell, move to the other side of your table so your back is to me. :P

[AnticorRifling]

It's a viscious cycle.

That bothers me you move.

If it bothers you then you should move.

It's complete inconsideration on both sides.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I'm talking about any action in public that would disrupt my enjoyment of the evening.

Smokers being near me ruins my enjoyment. Someone listening to music I don't agree with/like in a park can ruin my enjoyment. Someone ordering seafood (which the smell of can make me sick) at the table next to me ruins in my enjoyment.

I have no right to tell them what they can eat, listen to, or do.

[CrystalTears]

:yeahthat:

[xtc]

Originally posted by Meges

Originally posted by xtc
6. I am unconcerned with your opinion of me.

You effectively destroyed any merit of your own argument. Since you are obviously unconcerned for other's opinion of you and what you do, then breastfeeding mothers should certainly have no concern of your opinion of them and what they are doing. Fair is fair.

Meges

Reread my post I have isolated it for you. I said I was unconcerned of her opinion of me. No mention of what I do. Your argument doesn't hold water.

[Caiylania]

and we feel that yours do not hold water either. Once again, opinion. Hmm......

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
It's a viscious cycle.

That bothers me you move.

If it bothers you then you should move.

It's complete inconsideration on both sides.

[Delirium]

As for the smoking, I think its a valid comparison. If someone is smoking and I'm breathing in their second hand smoke (which is an actual physical affect on me that makes me cough and choke) it is MY responsibility to move not theirs.

I agree 100%. Lets get rid of all the non smoking laws in resteraunts there are right now. Lets let each individual resteraunt deal with it the way the want. Same with the breastfeeding. They can have a room so patrons who dont wanna have to see that while eating can go there. There can be ones where resteraunts choose to let the mother do so at the table as well so those who want to be near there family while doing so can go there. Then everyone has a choice.

I was wondering the other day but didnt wanna bump this topic to ask but since its bumped anyway..... For the moms who are to shy to breastfeed in public and we have already decided that sometimes it is needed, does that make them bad moms for not doing so? Their modesty is making the baby go hungry after all.