Holes in organized religions

[Edaarin]

I broke one of the few rules I try to live by today when I was dragged kicking and screaming into an argument about religion at lunch with a few friends today.

Basically, two of my coworkers and I were being told by this idiot intern in audit that she couldn't believe how anyone with a college education could accept any non-Western religion because they're all so far-fetched. I was absolutely floored by the situation that I was being lectured in the plausibility of religion by someone who takes every word in the Bible as literal fact.

I sat back and listened as the other two guys absolutely wrecked her. It was like watching the court room scene in Inherit the Wind.

Note: my opinion that she is an idiot stems from her complete inability to do any work unless given step-by-step directions, not only from the blatant intolerance.

[Shalla]

I was raised catholic by a very religious drop down on your knees and beg for forgiveness for our original sin family. Through pre-school and Highschool. Needless to say, I was rebellious.

I am in search of spiritual enlightenment after that.

[StrayRogue]

Most religion is filled with holes. Especially Christianity. What I don't understand is how Christians can be so judgemental against certain people or ideologies because of the bible yet ignore other portions. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Most religion is filled with holes. Especially Christianity.Name one. :)

[Edaarin]

Making the sun stand still...?

[StrayRogue]

How many generations were there between the Babylonian captivity and Jesus? In Matthew 1, it says there were fourteen, but only thirteen are listed.

Was Enoch a member of the sixth generation after Adam (as indicated in Genesis 5 and Luke 3) or of “the seventh after Adam” as it states in the epistle of Jude?

Did the Last Supper take place on the evening of Passover (Matthew 26:17-20; Mark 14:12-17; Luke 22:7-14), with the crucifixion occuring the next day and therefore “not on the feast day” (Matthew 26:5; Mark 14:2), or did it take place on the evening before Passover as John reports, so the crucifixion took place on the day of Passover – that is, on the feast day (compare John 13:1-2; 18:39; 19:14, 31, 42)?

There not even the ethical BS either.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Most religion is filled with holes. Especially Christianity. What I don't understand is how Christians can be so judgemental against certain people or ideologies because of the bible yet ignore other portions. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Its because they're human.

It's not a justification, just a reason. I think its hypocritical too.

[Sean of the Thread]

Join the Masons.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Most religion is filled with holes. Especially Christianity. What I don't understand is how Christians can be so judgemental against certain people or ideologies because of the bible yet ignore other portions. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Not all Christians are judgemental and intolerant. Just the judgemental and intolerant ones are, and I think if you talk to folks like that you'll discover that they're judgemental and intolerant about every single thing in the universe.

Most of the Christians that I know tend to mind their own business, try mightily to obey the Golden Rule and want only to live and let live.

I will discuss God and my firm belief in God if asked. I don't try to get other people to believe as I do, it is enough for me that I believe.

Saying that ALL Christians are intolerant and hypocritical because you've met a few glaring examples of that breed is just silly.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Killer Kitten
Saying that ALL Christians are intolerant and hypocritical because you've met a few glaring examples of that breed is just silly.

I agree, especially since those examples can be found within ANY religious group.

[Gan]

I agree with Killer Kitten's asessment.

On a funny note:

I got a good chuckle when a member of the Nation of Islam (Farakahn's group) told me a big spaceship will decend from the clouds and take all the believers to heaven to their 71 virgins.
Is that group still going? I dont see them at the stop lights selling their newsletter anymore (seeing guys in suits in 100+ degree heat hawking NOI newspapers was interesting)... and they refused to sell one to me when I asked because I was a white man when I asked for one to check out.

If people didn't believe in religion there wouldn't be any more stupid arguments about it.

Honestly though, if someone feels the need to bring up a polite debate or the most absurdly fanatical religious mentality into any kind of conversation, I immediately just go into a smile and nod stupor. I will never, ever, ever debate religion or bring it up as a conversation piece. EVER.

[Latrinsorm]

If your biggest problem with Christianity is numbers, I don't understand the disgust at all. I don't know how you're miscounting the first one, the second and third ones are issues. Your best bet is to talk to a couple people who have a deep understanding of Jewish customs, as they (for some reason) didn't tend to describe things exactly as we would today. I'll look more carefully later.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
If people didn't believe in religion there wouldn't be any more stupid arguments about it.


People need something to believe in though. And when faith is involved, human beings are capable of the greatest and worst of things. I'm willing to take the bad with the good.

I think religion is necessary. Even the holey kind. (heehee. pun intended)

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I agree with Killer Kitten's asessment.

On a funny note:

I got a good chuckle when a member of the Nation of Islam (Farakahn's group) told me a big spaceship will decend from the clouds and take all the believers to heaven to their 71 virgins.
Is that group still going? I dont see them at the stop lights selling their newsletter anymore (seeing guys in suits in 100+ degree heat hawking NOI newspapers was interesting)... and they refused to sell one to me when I asked because I was a white man when I asked for one to check out.

I had a similar experience when I was a teenager. They wouldn't talk to me either.

Yep, they still exist and Farrakhan is smarter than he looks. I assumed he was an idiot, as I had only watched edited interviews on US television. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interviewed him a few years ago and I was surprised at how intelligent Farrakhan is. Yes many of his opinions are highly controversial but in many areas the man is educated.

http://www.noi.org/

[Edited on 6-6-2005 by xtc]

[Snapp]

I don't follow any particular religion anymore, but generalizing that all Christians are this or all Muslims are that is just as bad as the intolerant extremists.

[Warriorbird]

"Name one."

You're hilarious, Latrin.

Religion is a belief system. Words like God, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed can be replaced with phrases like, "Never mind the bullocks," or "Tally ho!" All in all, a strong belief in anything, whether it have theistic origins can be used as a positive or negative tool. God is a word.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Name one."

You're hilarious, Latrin. I do my best. :)

[Delirium]

I find that both sides extremists bug me. Those who say anyone who believes in a religion is an idiot is just as annoying as the religous one saying anyone who doesnt believe in his god is going to hell. Lots of intelligent people have a faith. I doubt anyone here would think Kranar is a moron yet he believes. Both sides make their prejudgements.

[StrayRogue]

People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down others (mine) throats.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down others (mine) throats.

Exactly. People can find infinite numbers of things to argue about without treading upon each others religious practices.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down others (mine) throats.

The question is whether or not you think someone even saying their religion is stuffing it down your throat. Some people are so sensitive to the religion thing(not necessarily talking about you) you would think they were abused by a priest themselves.

Ive heard a very similar argument used against gay folks as well. They can do whatever they want as long as it isnt shoved down my throat(meaning i dont even wanna see two guys holding hands). Tolerance goes both ways.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by Delirium

Originally posted by StrayRogue
People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down others (mine) throats.

The question is whether or not you think someone even saying their religion is stuffing it down your throat. Some people are so sensitive to the religion thing(not necessarily talking about you) you would think they were abused by a priest themselves.

Ive heard a very similar argument used against gay folks as well. They can do whatever they want as long as it isnt shoved down my throat(meaning i dont even wanna see two guys holding hands). Tolerance goes both ways.

A very good point. For myself, with the religious aspect, I figure the shoving it down my throat part comes if the shover doesn't accept that I don't want to get on my knees and pray right now, or have them pick me up Sunday for services at their church, or have an instant conversion to their particular doctrine. I don't mind people discussing their beliefs with me, I just want the option to refuse to participate. I also demand equal time, if I listened to their theory of how the whole universe works they should extend me the courtesy of listening to mine, should I care to expound upon it.

As far as the gay thing goes, my attitude towards gays is the same as my attitude towards heterosexuals. Do whatever you want as long as your partner is willing. Should you choose to hit on me, thank you and I'm flattered, but please take 'no' for an answer. I'm a very married person, and trying to persuade me to crap all over my vows is really going to annoy me, even if you are Brad Pitt.

Well... maybe if you're Brad Pitt... :saint:

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Delirium

Originally posted by StrayRogue
People are free to believe what they want as long as they don't shove it down others (mine) throats.

The question is whether or not you think someone even saying their religion is stuffing it down your throat. Some people are so sensitive to the religion thing(not necessarily talking about you) you would think they were abused by a priest themselves.

Ive heard a very similar argument used against gay folks as well. They can do whatever they want as long as it isnt shoved down my throat(meaning i dont even wanna see two guys holding hands). Tolerance goes both ways.

I think shoving leaflets through my door, standing on the steps of the town hall in the square and shooting "sinners!", picketing outside my rock concerts, pressuring and guilt tripping people into going to church and believing, harbouring and encouraging hate for other religions or sects of religions and judging others because they are not religious is pretty much shoving their beliefs down other folks necks.

[Delirium]

Heh yes some of those are a bit extreme. Some of those are perceptions id bet tho. I was forced to go to a catholic church til i was about 16 and i dont remember them encouraging hate for other religons or sects, tho i can bet it does happen some places. Im assuming catholic is even more extreme than regular christian. Seriously of all the time i had to be around religious people it was a very small minority who acted out negatively like that. The majority are usually alright. My only real point, was to say, that there are people on both sides who shoves their beliefs down other folks necks on a regular basis. Most people just go about their business and dont worry about it. Damn tho,,if i had some jerk off yelling "sinner!" at me id have to start throwing rocks at em. The UK must be more religious than the US huh?

[StrayRogue]

I would say alot less, in Christianity terms. I can't remember the statistic I read but there was a ludicrous percentage of American's who believed in Satan, God and Jesus. But thats not the point. People can believe what they want. I've only experienced a few of the above (like at rock concerts, or in the town center) but go to a place like areas of Ireland, or the Gaze Strip and tell me religion is a good thing and doesn't harbour hate for your fellow man.

[Delirium]

Yeah that is extreme there ill have to admit. Part of me thinks tho that the hate those people have for each other might have started with religion but now has more to do with their history. I think you could take religion out of both places and theyd still be killing each other left and right. Too much history and a feeling of being wronged on both sides. Like anything, things can be perverted into a very bad thing.

[StrayRogue]

Totally agree.