My Training Plan (at level 13)

[Guister]

Here it is:

Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 111 27 27
Edged Weapons......................| 114 28 28
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 114 28 28
Physical Fitness...................| 62 13 13
Dodging............................| 142 42 42
Survival...........................| 62 13 13
Perception.........................| 62 13 13
Climbing...........................| 62 13 13
Swimming...........................| 62 13 13
First Aid..........................| 62 13 13



THREAD TITLE SHOULD SAY: (at level 12)

[lexbubba]

I would pick 1 weapon type until 50+, 3x armor until you get to plate, 2x perception, 2x cmans, and a sprinkling of MOC whenever you can make it to the first breakpoint.

To afford this, drop dodge to 2x, cut out fa/survival entirely, and cut out the second weapon type

[Tumbadoo]

You probably won't need more than 15 climb and swim till around 50, so ease up on those as well - probably get away with 10 ranks. Also, 2x physical fitness (this should be obvious, 3x when you can). Lex is money on the rest.

[Guister]

I understand your build is more stereotypical of a warrior.

My rational was to simply and effectively hunt using a 3x dodge build.

I am not sure why CMAN is considered necessary for a warrior. Dodging helps in avoiding maneuvers. I understand there may be some CMAN skills?

[Realk]

at least getting cmans for Wspec, and as mentioned focusing on just one type of weapon would be in your best interest. There are a ton of good cmans though that help more than the dodge will in a good amount of hunting areas.

[Guister]

Thing is, I am doing a bastard sword build.

IDK if that is obv.

[drumpel]

Thing is, I am doing a bastard sword build.

IDK if that is obv.

Could also be a katana since you can GRIP them as two handed or one handed.

As for your training, do as you like. You have until just before level 20 where you can freely change things up without any consequences. I would suggest looking into doing 2x for your Physical Fitness, it's the primary skill for building up redux.

I've got a level 19 warrior I've been playing here and there when my other characters have been played to earn their weekly grit/energy. Remember, this build is a very odd build. But I do odd builds because I can, just to see how viable they can be:



(at level 19), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 140 40
Shield Use.........................| 140 40
Combat Maneuvers...................| 140 40
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 90 20
Thrown Weapons.....................| 140 40
Brawling...........................| 140 40
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 74 16
Swimming...........................| 30 6
First Aid..........................| 114 28


This warrior he's a giantman (needs to be for the high strength, which is already maxed - which it needs to be for this build). He starts off by using SHIELD BASH to setup and then he slings the shield over his shoulder and pulls out a bastard sword, makes sure he grips it with two hands and HURLs it at the target.

He trains 2x in HURL, 2x Perception and 2x CM to make sure his attack strength is as high as it can be for using HURL.
I also train him in 1x for THW, this way he gets DS if he's attacked while he's holding the weapon before he hurls it.
I also train him 2x in Brawling, this way he gets DS once he's hurled the weapon and he's standing there with nothing in his hands. I can also follow up HURLing the bastard sword with UAC (unarmed combat) attacks (jab/punch/kick/grapple) should I feel the need.

Climbing and swimming, I'll take both to 60 as I level. They're not terribly important right now, but climbing does get used more than swimming which is why I have it higher in earlier hunting areas.

MOC I put ranks into it as often as I can to help offset force on force.

Like I said, an odd training path, but it is a viable one. The path you're going on, if it works for you, keep going.

I enjoy doing odd builds to see how they pan out, I find them entertaining:

Another odd build you can check out is my reduxmage - http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?121809-Any-wizards-out-there-with-redux .

I also have a pure paladin - he's level 20something now, relies heavily on wands still. He uses his runestaff to TRIP targets to put them prone and casts 111 (when mana is available) or uses wizard wands.

[Arqueto]

I am not sure why CMAN is considered necessary for a warrior. Dodging helps in avoiding maneuvers. I understand there may be some CMAN skills?

Every 2 ranks of CM adds 1 to your AS. Not training any CM is reducing your AS by 50 at cap.

[Woodchuck]

2x PF, 2x CM, 2x Weapon are imo min requirements for a melee warrior

[Guister]

I went with the bastard sword because I liked how it could grip from one to two. But having a one-gripped bastard sword honestly isn't useful unless you have a shield. Does anyone have a counter-opinion on this? The RT for one-grip and two-grip on a bastard sword is the same for me: 4 seconds.

So if I'm going to use a bastard sword as an OHE, there would only be a point if I had as shield out too. Otherwise, why not just grip it as a 2 hander?

But alas, I have no shield training.

In any case, I made PF 2x, you guys convinced me on that one.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Edged Weapons......................| 114 28
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 114 28
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Dodging............................| 142 42
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 62 13

Training Points: 0 Phy 157 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

[drumpel]

I went with the bastard sword because I liked how it could grip from one to two. But having a one-gripped bastard sword honestly isn't useful unless you have a shield. Does anyone have a counter-opinion on this? The RT for one-grip and two-grip on a bastard sword is the same for me: 4 seconds.

So if I'm going to use a bastard sword as an OHE, there would only be a point if I had as shield out too. Otherwise, why not just grip it as a 2 hander?

But alas, I have no shield training.

In any case, I made PF 2x, you guys convinced me on that one.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Edged Weapons......................| 114 28
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 114 28
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Dodging............................| 142 42
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 62 13

Training Points: 0 Phy 157 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

3x in dodge is eating up extra TPs you could be using for shield training. Maybe drop your dodge to 2x and then you can easily train in shield 1x and carry around a small shield to use when you want to get a little extra DS when you switch to one-handed, especially if you're going up against creatures that use a bow or cast bolt spells.

Or even dropping your Dodge training to 2.5x and doing .5x in Shield Use should be easily attainable.

[Guister]

Or even dropping your Dodge training to 2.5x and doing .5x in Shield Use should be easily attainable.

Thank you, drumpel, for your reply.

I have decided not to use a shield. It is a pretty abnormal build from a certain perspectively, because I am 3x'ing dodge. But I have to say, so far, I am comfortable with that. It seems like you get a DS advantage for that extra third training in dodge. I added some CMAN. Here is my new, revised build (and one extra level):

Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 111 27 27
Combat Maneuvers...................| 74 16 16
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 124 32 32
Physical Fitness...................| 124 32 32
Dodging............................| 148 48 48
Survival...........................| 70 15 15
Perception.........................| 70 15 15
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10 10
First Aid..........................| 70 15 15

Training Points: 0 Phy 3 Mnt (118 Mnt converted to Phy)

[Arqueto]

Thank you, drumpel, for your reply.

I have decided not to use a shield. It is a pretty abnormal build from a certain perspectively, because I am 3x'ing dodge. But I have to say, so far, I am comfortable with that. It seems like you get a DS advantage for that extra third training in dodge. I added some CMAN. Here is my new, revised build (and one extra level):

Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 111 27 27
Combat Maneuvers...................| 74 16 16
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 124 32 32
Physical Fitness...................| 124 32 32
Dodging............................| 148 48 48
Survival...........................| 70 15 15
Perception.........................| 70 15 15
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10 10
First Aid..........................| 70 15 15

Training Points: 0 Phy 3 Mnt (118 Mnt converted to Phy)

You'd be getting more bang for your buck out of 2x CM than 3x dodge, especially since that dodge value is going to diminish as you get into higher tiers of armor. 3x dodge is crazy expensive.

I already mentioned the AS benefits of doing 2x CM, but there are so many CMAN abilities (beyond the "innate" benefits) that would make a noticeable difference for you: evade specialization, mobility, toughness, wspec, not to mention a martial stance... Those all take points.

[Guister]

Final Training Plan:

1x CMAN
3x Dodge
2x Armor Use
2x TWC
2x Physical Training
1x First Aid
1x Survival
1x Perception

Climbing (at the usual rate, to the usual amount - 40 or so at cap I guess, not 1x)
Swimming (at the usual rate, to the usual amount - 40 or so at cap I guess, not 1x)


There are some holes in this plan. I will fill those as I get more training points as I level up. I have not really considered stats at all, so we'll see how those impact training points (as they balance out and my stat spread is less skewed - towards strength, constitution, the usual maxed out warrior stat build).

I am going to revisit this training plan time and again. I am sticking with 3x dodge for now, while controversial, provides an interesting amount of DS and (with invoker) I am not getting hit. So we'll see. 1x CMAN is interesting (not 2x). I have WSPEC, which is good.

Ciao for now!

Feel free to leave more comments.

[drumpel]

Final Training Plan:

1x CMAN
3x Dodge
2x Armor Use
2x TWC
2x Physical Training
1x First Aid
1x Survival
1x Perception

Climbing (at the usual rate, to the usual amount - 40 or so at cap I guess, not 1x)
Swimming (at the usual rate, to the usual amount - 40 or so at cap I guess, not 1x)


There are some holes in this plan. I will fill those as I get more training points as I level up. I have not really considered stats at all, so we'll see how those impact training points (as they balance out and my stat spread is less skewed - towards strength, constitution, the usual maxed out warrior stat build).

I am going to revisit this training plan time and again. I am sticking with 3x dodge for now, while controversial, provides an interesting amount of DS and (with invoker) I am not getting hit. So we'll see. 1x CMAN is interesting (not 2x). I have WSPEC, which is good.

Ciao for now!

Feel free to leave more comments.

If you're looking to dodge and be very proficient with not getting hit, you may want to consider training in the combat maneuver skill Evade Specialization (https://gswiki.play.net/Evade_Specialization).

[Guister]

If you're looking to dodge and be very proficient with not getting hit, you may want to consider training in the combat maneuver skill Evade Specialization (https://gswiki.play.net/Evade_Specialization).

Thanks Drumpel.

I looked into it but that spec triggers "Evasiveness" which is a buff. Evade Spec doesn't directly improve your ability to dodge.

I have my CMAN points allocated to WSPEC 2 handed weapons for now.

I wonder if 1x'ing in CMAN will lead me into new avenues after I get my max WSPEC. I have a feeling I'll be on WSPEC for life, at 1x.

[drumpel]

Thanks Drumpel.

I looked into it but that spec triggers "Evasiveness" which is a buff. Evade Spec doesn't directly improve your ability to dodge.

I have my CMAN points allocated to WSPEC 2 handed weapons for now.

I wonder if 1x'ing in CMAN will lead me into new avenues after I get my max WSPEC. I have a feeling I'll be on WSPEC for life, at 1x.

It doesn't improve your dodge skill, it helps prevent you from taking hits. Also, on a successful evade, Evasiveness automatically actives and allows you to automatically evade the next attack directed at you within a 10 second period.

How you want to call it, that's up to you, but all the dodge skill really does is bolster your DS (and aid in SMR/SMRv2 defense - but so does CM, PF and Perception). I like to think of evading as actually dodging, but maybe that's just me.

As for WSPEC, it adds +2 AS per level, but it also boosts your bonus on using CMANS by +2 that take into account the weapon you are using. If you're not utilizing the CMANs to your full advantage you're kind of missing the point of using a warrior....that is, unless you're working on an off type build, then by all means go for it.

For example, I've got a warrior that uses a quarterstaff. He's got his WSPEC up for two handed weapons. He also uses TRIP. Each rank of WSPEC gives him a +2 bonus on his rolls for using TRIP.

I've also got a warrior that does two weapon combat, using OHE weapons. He also uses CMAN Hamstring - each weapon gets used for this CMAN. Each rank of WSPEC gives both weapons a +2 bonus roll, so he see a +4 bonus to his rolls when using hamstring for each rank of WSPEC he has for one handed weapons.

Don't short change yourself, make sure you look into other CMANs. Sometimes getting just the first 2 ranks of a CMAN can be more beneficial than working a single one up all 5 ranks and costing you 30 cman points and taking a long time to achieve. Just something to keep in mind.

[Elanthil]

On advice from several capped warriors, I am working on two handed and brawling, and just brawling for the nonce. I find its freeing having only one button to mash for the brawling script. it auto swaps targets (both individual as well as body part if desired). I am working up one handed a little here, a little there as points permit. at 29 I already have damage reduction of some sort according to the game info.

I am wearing brigandine for now, and will upgrade to plate when I am ready. I have no plans for kroderine soul, as its too restrictive.

Hope this blabbering gives you some food for thought!

[Guister]

In terms of CMAN, I will look into Evade Specialization. So far I am doing WSPEC for that AS boost.

[Leff]

If you’re doing evade build, don’t train armor and use robes.

[drumpel]

If you’re doing evade build, don’t train armor and use robes.

Always train armor - helps with redux. I'd suggest, though, keeping in scale class. I run around in brig with my THW warrior, he's level 54 and does well so far. Just need to invest in some decently to heavily crit padded brig.

[Leff]

Always train armor - helps with redux. I'd suggest, though, keeping in scale class. I run around in brig with my THW warrior, he's level 54 and does well so far. Just need to invest in some decently to heavily crit padded brig.

I agree post cap, but if you’re 0x ing cmans for it, drop it.

[Woodchuck]

I went with the bastard sword because I liked how it could grip from one to two. But having a one-gripped bastard sword honestly isn't useful unless you have a shield. Does anyone have a counter-opinion on this? The RT for one-grip and two-grip on a bastard sword is the same for me: 4 seconds.

So if I'm going to use a bastard sword as an OHE, there would only be a point if I had as shield out too. Otherwise, why not just grip it as a 2 hander?

But alas, I have no shield training.

In any case, I made PF 2x, you guys convinced me on that one.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Edged Weapons......................| 114 28
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 114 28
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Dodging............................| 142 42
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 62 13

Training Points: 0 Phy 157 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)


the purpose of swapping the grips is so you can use both OHE and THW weapon skills, so for example, you thrash, and then swap to one-handed and then flurry since thrash is on cool down. It is pretty cool and effective and you don't need a shield for it.

[Guister]

If you’re doing evade build, don’t train armor and use robes.

Seriously? I'm a warrior.

[Guister]

I agree post cap, but if you’re 0x ing cmans for it, drop it.

Interesting thought.

I had thought to do Half Plate and Helm (equivalent to a full plate build), because well hell, I'm a warrior.

But doing anything less?

I don't know.

I can't see walking around capped in brigandine.

[drumpel]

Let's say at cap you're 3x dodge. This would be your DS, THW (no shield).

I don't know your stats or race, so I'll just guess what AGI and INT bonuses might be at capped:
Dodge Ranks = 303
Agility Bonus = 25
Intuition Bonus = 18
Armor = full plate (armor hindrance for full plate is .83)
Stance = Offensive (stance modifier for offensive is .75)

Calculations used:
Base Value = Dodging Ranks + (AGI Bonus) + trunc(INT Bonus / 4)
Evade (dodge) DS (Melee) = ((Base Value × Armor Hindrance × Shield Factor) - Shield Size Penalty)) × Stance Modifier

Your Evade (dodge) DS would be:

Base Value = 303 + 25 + trunc(18/4)
= 303 + 25 + 4
= 332

Evade DS = (332 x .83) x .75
= 206

You'd have 206 DS in offensive, with the above info.

If you changed to brig you get armor hindrance of .94 and your DS ends up being 234. You'd gain 28 DS if you wore brig over full plate.

Is that net gain of 28 DS beneficial enough for you to wear brig over full plate?

You also need to remember this is just for the dodge DS side of things. There are other factors that come into play when damage is dealt; such as action penalty, crit divisor, DF and so on that contributes to the end results of how much damage and what kind of wound (minor to death crit) you receive.

If you're a warrior, you're most likely going to take hits so wearing higher armor is ideal. Also, for all classes, the higher the ASG armor you can wear the better - in my opinion.

One last thing, if you're thinking about wearing metal breastplate and just a helm with it for full plate equivalent coverage, your arms, legs and neck (unless you're wearing a greathelm or a helm + an aventail) will be considered only protected by the next lower tier armor which would be chain. If you're going to give yourself full plate equivalent coverage, just wear actual full plate. Also, going from metal breastplate to actual full plate armor gives you an extra 3 for your CvA (magical breastplate being -18 and magical full plate being -21). 3 free extra points to defend from CS based attacks can be crucial sometimes.

If you're playing the game from a mechanical side of things, wear full plate. If you're playing the game strictly as a roleplaying side of things, do whatever the hell you want because after all, it is just a game.

[Guister]

Let's say at cap you're 3x dodge. This would be your DS, THW (no shield).

I don't know your stats or race, so I'll just guess what AGI and INT bonuses might be at capped:
Dodge Ranks = 303
Agility Bonus = 25
Intuition Bonus = 18
Armor = full plate (armor hindrance for full plate is .83)
Stance = Offensive (stance modifier for offensive is .75)

Calculations used:
Base Value = Dodging Ranks + (AGI Bonus) + trunc(INT Bonus / 4)
Evade (dodge) DS (Melee) = ((Base Value × Armor Hindrance × Shield Factor) - Shield Size Penalty)) × Stance Modifier

Your Evade (dodge) DS would be:

Base Value = 303 + 25 + trunc(18/4)
= 303 + 25 + 4
= 332

Evade DS = (332 x .83) x .75
= 206

You'd have 206 DS in offensive, with the above info.

If you changed to brig you get armor hindrance of .94 and your DS ends up being 234. You'd gain 28 DS if you wore brig over full plate.

Is that net gain of 28 DS beneficial enough for you to wear brig over full plate?

You also need to remember this is just for the dodge DS side of things. There are other factors that come into play when damage is dealt; such as action penalty, crit divisor, DF and so on that contributes to the end results of how much damage and what kind of wound (minor to death crit) you receive.

If you're a warrior, you're most likely going to take hits so wearing higher armor is ideal. Also, for all classes, the higher the ASG armor you can wear the better - in my opinion.

One last thing, if you're thinking about wearing metal breastplate and just a helm with it for full plate equivalent coverage, your arms, legs and neck (unless you're wearing a greathelm or a helm + an aventail) will be considered only protected by the next lower tier armor which would be chain. If you're going to give yourself full plate equivalent coverage, just wear actual full plate. Also, going from metal breastplate to actual full plate armor gives you an extra 3 for your CvA (magical breastplate being -18 and magical full plate being -21). 3 free extra points to defend from CS based attacks can be crucial sometimes.

If you're playing the game from a mechanical side of things, wear full plate. If you're playing the game strictly as a roleplaying side of things, do whatever the hell you want because after all, it is just a game.

Nice calculations.

I would say that I will do Brig, because of the +15% DS bonus with specialization or something.

Plus I have some nice brig armor.

The plate specialization bonus is utter crap.

[Leff]

Seriously? I'm a warrior.

Yes. I run a capped warrior ucs/shield build in robes. You don’t have to though, just trying to give you some ideas.

[Guister]

Yes. I run a capped warrior ucs/shield build in robes. You don’t have to though, just trying to give you some ideas.

Good to know. I think I will be using brig.

I like the bonuses for brig. But robes sounds great.

Can't wait to get back into the game (after a break).

[Guister]

With some random enhancives:

(at level 18), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 4 0
Armor Use..........................| 111 27
Combat Maneuvers...................| 117 29
Blunt Weapons......................| 3 0
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 149 49
Ranged Weapons.....................| 2 0
Brawling...........................| 1 0
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 160 60
Survival...........................| 90 20
Stalking and Hiding................| 2 0
Perception.........................| 95 21
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 90 20