This gives the term "choking the chicken" a whole new meaning

[Apotheosis]

More fucked up kids:

Boys arrested after alleged chicken torture

May 14, 2005

ANDOVER, Mass. -- Three teens who blowtorched one chicken and beat others at a children's nature camp were arrested and charged with cruelty to animals, police said.

The boys, aged 13, 14 and 15 were caught after the camp director's daughter found a videotape they made of the alleged animal torture.

"The way they came in and killed the chickens -- I'm appalled," said Jim Loscutoff Sr., a former Boston Celtics player and founder of Evergreen Camp.

The tape allegedly show the boys, whose identities were not released because of their age, beating the chickens with fishing rods and lacrosse sticks and setting one on fire using a lighter and aerosol can, killing it.

The tape also showed the boys tossing a chicken into a pond and throwing rocks at it.

"In the 30 years I've been doing this, I've seen a lot, but this is very disturbing to watch," said Andover police Lt. Kevin Winters.

The boys were released to their parents after they were arraigned on animal cruelty and vandalism charges Friday in the juvenile division of Lawrence District Court.

One of the boys admitted his involvement when interviewed by the Boston Herald.

"It started out innocent," he said. "We just wanted the roosters to chase us so we threw sticks at them, but it got too far over the line. It was a stupid thing because those animals didn't deserve it."

The boys were charged after Loscutoff's 19-year-old granddaughter, who works at the camp, found the tape in a bag on the camp grounds and watched the tape.

When I was a child I went to a nature camp and a horrible Satanical sect murdered our Vietnamese pot-belly as well as several other farm animals.

I am very happy that they caught those motherfuckers :)

That's what you get for being stupid and taping yourself.

- Arkans

[Makkah]

Doesn't torturing animals and shit like that show behavior that ultimately leads to psycho shit like serial killers and Columbine-like outcomes?

[Doyle Hargraves]

The judge should sentence them all to death via lighter + aerosol can.

Seriously.

People that do this shit to animals piss me off to no end. I don't care how old they are, if I saw them in the street I'd beat them within an inch of their life.

Then I'd spread rumors at their school that they were gay and stuff them in lockers.

[EDIT: WTF stupid browser, sorry for triple post. It's fixed now.]


[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Dave]

Because it might actually become a person, as opposed to an animal, if the behaviour isn't curbed through methods that work..?

Lots of people have shoved firecrackers in a frogs mouth and blew them up. Not uncommon.

Granted blow torching is a bit far, but how many of us have thrown rocks trying to hit the ducks in the pond hrmm?
Let their parents punish them.

Lots of people have shoved firecrackers in a frogs mouth and blew them up. Not uncommon.

Granted blow torching is a bit far, but how many of us have thrown rocks trying to hit the ducks in the pond hrmm?
Let their parents punish them.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Dave
Lots of people have shoved firecrackers in a frogs mouth and blew them up. Not uncommon.

Lots of people are assholes and should have lit firecrackers shoved in their mouthes.



Granted blow torching is a bit far, but how many of us have thrown rocks trying to hit the ducks in the pond hrmm?

I don't know, but I haven't.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Dave
Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Dave]

I bet your response would be a lot different if Warclaidhm turned out to be one of the people in that news story.

[Artha]

Say what you want about Dave, he's not the one who said he'd beat a 13 year old to within an inch of their life.

[Asha]

I 'd actually have a chance in a fight against a 13 yr old kid.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Artha
Say what you want about Dave, he's not the one who said he'd beat a 13 year old to within an inch of their life.

And? I bet they weren't thinking about how a chicken has no way to defend itself before they set it on fire either, which is a pretty fucking painful way to die. What's your point?

I'm just saying that if it was someone like Warclaidhm involved in this incident, this thread would easily be 10 pages long by now filled with "OMG SOMEONE SHOULD SET THEM ON FIRE!!!!!!!!1111" posts. But since it's just "some kids" from a newspaper article, it's ok.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Drayal
I 'd actually have a chance in a fight against a 13 yr old kid.

:lol:

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Dave
Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Dave]

I bet your response would be a lot different if Warclaidhm turned out to be one of the people in that news story.

I don't really know where that came from, I am not one of the people who jump on the "hate warclaidhm" bandwagon.
I could not care less if he wanted to cut off a chickens head and watch it run around for entertainment. It does not affect me in any way.

[Doyle Hargraves]

I'd say that decapitating something would be a lot less torturous than burning something alive.

It's not so much the killing of an animal that gets to me (though I still think it's wrong), it's the torture part that pisses me off.

Decapitation tends to be a quick and painless death. Being burned alive is quite the opposite.

As for the Warclaidhm part, I must have confused you with someone else. For that I apologize.


It does not affect me in any way.

And that somehow makes it less wrong?

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves


And? I bet they weren't thinking about how a chicken has no way to defend itself before they set it on fire either, which is a pretty fucking painful way to die. What's your point?
The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died. Its food. The humanity!

It does not affect me in any way.

And that somehow makes it less wrong?

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]
nope it makes it obvious that it is not a big deal to me and I really don't care how a chicken died. Because.... its a fucking chicken!

[Doyle Hargraves]

Oh sorry. I was under the impression you hated all animals.


PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

Instead of


PETA made me hate chickens the way I do today.

Yes I realize it's just a chicken, and a chicken isn't exactly important in the grand scheme of things and it's highly unlikely I'm going to lose sleep over this either. That's not the point.

But I'm sure your response would be exactly the same if it were say, someone's dog, cat or someone's horse or whatever, or even if they didn't even specify what type of animal it was.

Right?

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

Do we eat dogs cats and or horses in America, nope. I might feel some sympathy for it if that was the case.

[Brattt8525]

Cruelty to any animal is wrong I do not care if it is a chicken or a frog. If these kids are doing this to a chicken what is to stop them from doing it to the dog next door?

I have been watching the animal channel lately and I have been horrified at what people do to animals kids and adults alike. The other night two boys were nailed for dog fighting, they previously tied rubber bands around their dogs ear for 2 weeks and when they figured the area was numb enough they cut the dogs ears off with a pair of scissors.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Dave
Do we eat dogs cats and or horses in America, nope. I might feel some sympathy for it if that was the case.

Don't be too sure.

clipping has been going on for centuries. Do you think doberman pinchers are born without tails?

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Dave
The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died. Its food. The humanity!

There is something fundamentally wrong when you take a position that because a life is food that it's inconsequential. That any abuse or torture transgressed upon this life is meaningless.

You know that there are a lot of studies about people like yourself Dave, those who have negative attitudes concerning the humane treatment of animals?

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Dave
clipping has been going on for centuries. Do you think doberman pinchers are born without tails?

I am well aware that there is cosmetic surgery done on animals but that does not consist of rubber bands and a pair of scissors. Then the whole sterile issue comes to mind, along with the fact the animals were NOT awake when a vet does a dobbies ears.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Dave
Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Dave]

Heh. Way to turn your hatred on the perpetrator. :rolleyes:

I guess I'm fucked up then, I just don't care about a damn chicken, or 100 damn chickens. I might have if I didn't have to deal with the morons at school always showing stupid videos of pigs getting their necks cut, or cows getting bolts through their heads.

I am going to be a serial killer now TRL. You're right. It is all because "People like me" are apathetic to some stupid kids killing chickens. As I said in the first place let their parents punish them.
Gesh I can only wonder what people like me are when i we are gunning down women and children in Iraq.

Again I say, its a fucking chicken!

If I saw three post-pubescent males slaughtering animals on a farm for a living, I wouldn't care.

If I saw three post-pubescent males torturing animals because they were torturing animals, I would care.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Dave
I guess I'm fucked up then, I just don't care about a damn chicken, or 100 damn chickens. I might have if I didn't have to deal with the morons at school always showing stupid videos of pigs getting their necks cut, or cows getting bolts through their heads.

I am going to be a serial killer now TRL. You're right. It is all because "People like me" are apathetic to some stupid kids killing chickens. As I said in the first place let their parents punish them.
Gesh I can only wonder what people like me are when i we are gunning down women and children in Iraq.

Again I say, its a fucking chicken!

You have some fucked up logic, Dave and you keep trying to justify it. I knew that you wouldn't be able to comprehend that I wasn't actually insinuating that you would become a serial killer, I fully suspected that you would stop right there and not put an ounce of thought further. The fact is that each act of senseless torture diminishes us as human beings, you have said it yourself you are desensitized to the point that you have little value for an animals life, at what point do you cross over and take that attitude toward another human's life? (And I don't mean when it's a choice between your life and theirs so don't even go there with some self-defense tangent.)

The mere fact that you are so cavalier about it concerns me, especially in light of the fact that you will be over in Iraq. Sad.

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Dave
The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died. Its food. The humanity!

You know that there are a lot of studies about people like yourself Dave, those who have negative attitudes concerning the humane treatment of animals?
yeah I didn't comprehend that. You meant something so much deeper.

Shall I read into the meaning Behind your words from now on? I mean after all it is such a complex sentence. Tell me what other results were there of the "studies" that have been done aside from peoples tendency to become something like a serial killer. Oh I know what you meant! People who kill animals do more yoga when they become adults!
Because I hold an fair amount of apathy over the fate of a few chickens makes you afraid that I will be going to fight in a war? look beyond your front porch... I will do my job,and what I am trained to do. Nothing more and nothing less. I paraphrase a good old army saying here as a fair example,join the army so you can " Travel to foreign countries, meet new and interesting people, and kill them." Or maybe we can talk about some of the nice things you learn in the army, a good example is the bayonet course, you're asked the question "What makes the green grass grow?" to which the response is "Blood, blood, bright red blood!"
But in all seriousness, my job in the army is all warm and fuzzy, I am here to make people feel good inside and smile.

For the record, I have killed three animals in my life.
Age 4, I was attacked by a rooster on a family friends farm pecked the hell out of me. Shot it the next day with my father and fed it to the dogs after I got back from the hospital. (prolly where my lack of care comes from)
Age 14- I got myself a deer while hunting with a friend.
Age 20- ran over a squirrel

Give me a few years and I will be as famous as Mr. Charles Manson.



[Edited on 5-16-2005 by Dave]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Dave
drivel and more drivel....


You're not worth the time or effort Tackleberry. Go on and enjoy your oblivious existence.

Oh sure, attack and run. Typical of you.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.


Iraqi Insurgent: McDonalds made me hate Americans the way I do today.


The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died. Its food. The humanity!

Or lack of it.
Firstly, it wasnt killed for food. It was killed for fun. Sick, sadistic bloodlust and no more.
Secondly, even the fucking meat industry accepts that there are good ways and bad ways to kill animals. Sorry if I am speaking in fairly basic terms here but I need to put it clear enough for you -You are a moron.


Because.... its a fucking chicken! So because you dont rate it as important, it has no rights to be protected from torture?
I hope you never meet someone who feels the same way about you.


Because I hold an fair amount of apathy over the fate of a few chickens makes you afraid that I will be going to fight in a war? look beyond your front porch... I will do my job,and what I am trained to do...[snip]...But in all seriousness, my job in the army is all warm and fuzzy, I am here to make people feel good inside and smile.


I am worried that you are going to fight in a war, because you cant see the fact that torture of things that you find unimportant is wrong. I know that fighting in wars is an experience that completely changes your outlook on life. Once there, there is no going back and it hardens you to some of the most depraved human behaviours. If you are starting from the point of view that "torture is ok, as long as it isnt on something/one important", how fucking skewed are your views on life going to be when/if you ever return from Iraq?

The second part about making people feel good inside and smile is exactly what your job is about. You are supposed to be a fucking peacekeeper, not a warmonger/torturer...it worries me that you think cruelty of any kind is justifiable...but I dont really know why I am surprised. You have presented as some obsessive little boy with an action man and a plastic gun since you joined the army...and then you wonder why people have a downer on the armed forces.

Dickhead.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
Oh sure, attack and run. Typical of you.
Am I the only person that was reminded of this from Monty Python's Holy Grail:


BLACK KNIGHT:
None shall pass.
ARTHUR:
I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight, but I must cross this bridge.
BLACK KNIGHT:
Then you shall die.
ARTHUR:
I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside!
BLACK KNIGHT:
I move for no man.
ARTHUR:
So be it!
ARTHUR and BLACK KNIGHT:
Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc.
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's left arm off]

ARTHUR:
Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
BLACK KNIGHT:
'Tis but a scratch.
ARTHUR:
A scratch? Your arm's off!
BLACK KNIGHT:
No, it isn't.
ARTHUR:
Well, what's that, then?
BLACK KNIGHT:
I've had worse.
ARTHUR:
You liar!
BLACK KNIGHT:
Come on, you pansy!
[clang]
Huyah!
[clang]
Hiyaah!
[clang]
Aaaaaaaah!
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right arm off]

ARTHUR:
Victory is mine!
[kneeling]
We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--
BLACK KNIGHT:
Hah!
[kick]
Come on, then.
ARTHUR:
What?
BLACK KNIGHT:
Have at you!
[kick]
ARTHUR:
Eh. You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.
BLACK KNIGHT:
Oh, had enough, eh?
ARTHUR:
Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left.
BLACK KNIGHT:
Yes, I have.
ARTHUR:
Look!
BLACK KNIGHT:
Just a flesh wound.
[kick]
ARTHUR:
Look, stop that.
BLACK KNIGHT:
Chicken!
[kick]
Chickennn!
ARTHUR:
Look, I'll have your leg.
[kick]
Right!
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's right leg off]

BLACK KNIGHT:
Right. I'll do you for that!
ARTHUR:
You'll what?
BLACK KNIGHT:
Come here!
ARTHUR:
What are you going to do, bleed on me?
BLACK KNIGHT:
I'm invincible!
ARTHUR:
You're a looney.
BLACK KNIGHT:
The Black Knight always triumphs! Have at you! Come on, then.
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT's last leg off]

BLACK KNIGHT:
Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.
ARTHUR:
Come, Patsy.
BLACK KNIGHT:
Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!



[Edited on 16-5-05 by Nieninque]

[Matt-Ichiban]

Am I the only person that was reminded of this from Monty Python's Holy Grail:


You were probably the only one because there's almost no connection at all.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Matt-Ichiban


Am I the only person that was reminded of this from Monty Python's Holy Grail:


You were probably the only one because there's almost no connection at all.

I got it and it was pretty accurate. Nice to be laughing this early on a Monday morn.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Matt-Ichiban


Am I the only person that was reminded of this from Monty Python's Holy Grail:


You were probably the only one because there's almost no connection at all.

Sorry, wasnt really aiming that question at the special needs posters.
Thanks for your time, just the same.

[cookiemonster]

Loved the Python cut, good times :)

Dave, I'm only partway with you on this one. Yep, it's a worthless chicken, but actual torture (it takes a while to burn to death) takes a cold son of a bitch.
They need some community service with animals, I think.
500 days of scooping bird shit should straighten em out.

As for frogs, nope. No problem there. Why? Well, it's pretty damn instant and it's funny as hell when you're 13.

Its amazing, just because I dont care about a chicken I am going to torture people...

[Apotheosis]

I think the fact is not that a bunch of kids killed animals, it's the fact that they tortured them. I don't really "empathize" or "humanize" animals, but these kids took a living being, animal, something that could certainly feel pain, and inflicted pain upon it in a most disturbing way.

Anyone who thinks it's "not a big deal" is a masturbation sleeve.

[Parker]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Matt-Ichiban


Am I the only person that was reminded of this from Monty Python's Holy Grail:


You were probably the only one because there's almost no connection at all.

Sorry, wasnt really aiming that question at the special needs posters.
Thanks for your time, just the same.

I'm not special needs! :P Anyways.... I thought it was pretty on-topic, and for 9:35 on a monday morning, it was a good laugh.

[cookiemonster]

dave,

I'm not saying you kill humans, and I'm the worlds furthest from being an animal rights nut. Hell, we used to shoot our dogs when they killed our chickens. (we had a farm)
I put animals right up there with plants. All usable comodities.
But torture is something else. If you're gonna kill it,
kill it. Step on his head and pull his feet. Make it quick.

[Parker]

True, killing by necessity is different than killing for pleasure, we all agree.

I am still of the opinion that these are the types of people who become serial killers, rapists, and all-around nutcases. I feel like these kids are off to a bad start, and need to be put into counciling.

[cookiemonster]

counselling rarely works. It takes a life changing realization to
change kids on a path to destruction.

Then again, it could have been a peer pressure thing. Each act
escalating as they try to top one another.
Either way 10,000 years in the cave of wonders ought to cool them off a bit.

[Parker]

I think counciling's a start, at least it would keep someone watching these kids, and warn someone of a potential disaster.

I'm afraid I don't understand your last comment.

Originally posted by cookiemonster
dave,

I'm not saying you kill humans, and I'm the worlds furthest from being an animal rights nut. Hell, we used to shoot our dogs when they killed our chickens. (we had a farm)
I put animals right up there with plants. All usable comodities.
But torture is something else. If you're gonna kill it,
kill it. Step on his head and pull his feet. Make it quick.

I know your not saying that I am going to torture people, other people are.

I dont know why people think I am condoning what they did. They were wrong. But in the end its no skin off my back. They are not my children, and its just a chicken.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Dave
Gesh I can only wonder what people like me are when i we are gunning down women and children in Iraq.

Kill all of them you want.

Just don't miss and accidentally hit a dog.

[Vestarr]

<<Either way 10,000 years in the cave of wonders ought to cool them off a bit.>>

<<I'm afraid I don't understand your last comment.>>
Aladdin referrence i believe

but back on topic
I agree if ya was to kill the thing for food then hey its a chicken but burning it is just wrong ...as was said many times already

[Parker]

Thankyah thankyah. I get it now.

[xtc]

As I read this thread I am astounded when a dumb fuck Dave is. I always knew he wasn't a rocket scientist but I am dumb founded by the ignorance he has shown in this thread.

There is a link between animal abusers and serial killers. Perhaps you have heard of the MacDonald triad, three signs that serial killers display in childhood, one of which is killing/hurting animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDonald_Triad

Looks like some members of Congress believe there is a link as well.

http://cats.about.com/library/weekly/aa060600a.htm

There have also been studies done which show child animal abusers may have been victims of child abuse themselves.

http://www.vetsurgeonsboardwa.au.com/0302_02Abuse.html



[Edited on 5-17-2005 by xtc]

[Skirmisher]

Dave I hope you were sticking to defending your initial post because you felt attacked and so decided to dig in your heels because you are just completely off base on this one.

I'm sure if you pull back from the argument a moment and think about it, the difference between raising animals to be killed for food and intential torture of reatively defensless animals will be clear.

[DeV]

Kids who abuse animals rarely stop there. The ones that do are fortunate. When I say stop there I mean they don't all become your typical psychopath serial killer or rapist, but could be the next door neighbor that beats his wife and dog or the friendly pedophile down the street who keeps to himself when he's not out crusing for kids.

There is nothing normal about an individual torturing an animal.

[cookiemonster]

I feel like I have to add that this was horrible and not even close to the usual boyhood stuff, which I think is absolutely normal:
Tying strings with various stuff to cats tails
Wrestling with your dogs and getting rough
Blowing up frogs with firecrackers
Stomping perch to hear em pop

There's a difference in that and holding a chicken still while it squirms and screeches as it's burned to death. Remember that to
die from burns you have to be burned a LOT!
That's a lot of screeching and flailing to watch and think it's just cool.


(edited because it came off and anti boyhood stuff at first, total opposite of my reason for posting)

[Edited on 5-17-2005 by cookiemonster]

Originally posted by xtc
As I read this thread I am astounded when a dumb fuck Dave is. I always knew he wasn't a rocket scientist but I am dumb founded by the ignorance he has shown in this thread.

There is a link between animal abusers and serial killers. Perhaps you have heard of the MacDonald triad, three signs that serial killers display in childhood, one of which is killing/hurting animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacDonald_Triad

Looks like some members of Congress believe there is a link as well.

http://cats.about.com/library/weekly/aa060600a.htm

There have also been studies done which show child animal abusers may have been victims of child abuse themselves.

http://www.vetsurgeonsboardwa.au.com/0302_02Abuse.html



[Edited on 5-17-2005 by xtc]

Well I guess you missed the post where I WAS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE LINK between serial killers and people who torture animals. It was TRL who tried to backtrack and say that was not what she meant.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Dave I hope you were sticking to defending your initial post because you felt attacked and so decided to dig in your heels because you are just completely off base on this one.

I'm sure if you pull back from the argument a moment and think about it, the difference between raising animals to be killed for food and intential torture of reatively defensless animals will be clear.

Skirm, I know you are smarter than the people who are attacking me. I never said it was normal. I never said it was okay. I never said the kids should be allowed to do it without repercussions.

However I did say (and mind you for about the 15th time now) that it is a chicken, so I just dont really care what the kids did to it. Leave it to thier parents to punish them. If they dont handle it right they will learn thier lesson when little jimmy kills them both with a shotgun.

[Back]

Maybe the kids were hungry and decided the best way to cook their meal was with a blow torch.

[Warriorbird]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/17/peta.lab/index.html

PETA's new breakthrough in their epic quest to stop people from "spanking the monkey."

[MrFeature]

Better for them to have killed worthless chickens rather than kill worthless school children... hmmm, maybe not.

[Meges]

Who here has eaten fresh lobster or crab prepared from a tank?

Meges

[Doyle Hargraves]

I had crabs before, it was awesome.

[Meges]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
I had crabs before, it was awesome.

Heh, wait a minute. You had crabs, or you ate crab? I think I'll take a few steps away from you for now, thanks.

Meges

Originally posted by Meges
Who here has eaten fresh lobster or crab prepared from a tank?

Meges
Damn i didnt even think of that. Good point.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
I never said it was okay.....

I just dont really care what the kids did to it....


The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died.


nope it makes it obvious that it is not a big deal to me and I really don't care how a chicken died. Because.... its a fucking chicken!




Again I say, its a fucking chicken!




That sounds fairly similar to me. Same result: "Who gives a fuck?"

It's good that you eventually got to the point of saying they were wrong...but as far as I am concerned, saying "I dont care about something" is tantamount to saying it is ok.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Meges
Who here has eaten fresh lobster or crab prepared from a tank?

Meges

I am planning on cooking lobster or crab myself at some point.
I wont be plunging it into a pot of boiling water, however. There are humane ways to kill and cook crab/lobster and I will be using them. :)

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave
I never said it was okay.....

I just dont really care what the kids did to it....


The thing is, its a chicken. I don't care how painful it died.


nope it makes it obvious that it is not a big deal to me and I really don't care how a chicken died. Because.... its a fucking chicken!




Again I say, its a fucking chicken!




That sounds fairly similar to me. Same result: "Who gives a fuck?"

It's good that you eventually got to the point of saying they were wrong...but as far as I am concerned, saying "I dont care about something" is tantamount to saying it is ok.

Originally posted by Dave
Its a chicken. We do worse to people. Who cares.

Granted what they did was pretty fucked up. Give them timeout.
PETA made me hate animals the way I do today.

[Edited on 5-15-2005 by Dave]

Let us look at my first post in this thread.

[Edited on 5-18-2005 by Dave]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave



Let us look at my first post in this thread.

[Edited on 5-18-2005 by Dave]

It was edited though, and I wasnt sure at which part of the discussion it was added so didnt comment about that. regardless, the rest of your posts until late on, returned to the "I dont care" frame of mind, indicating that you thought it unimportant/ok/excusable that these kids tortured animals.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Dave

It was TRL who tried to backtrack and say that was not what she meant.

I didn't back track at all Dave, you are incapable of carrying on a cogent conversation that spans more than one sentence. You did what you always do, you honed in on one miniscule aspect of the entire thing and then proved that you are a moron. Shall we revisit that?

I said:

You know that there are a lot of studies about people like yourself Dave, those who have negative attitudes concerning the humane treatment of animals?

You said:

I am going to be a serial killer now TRL. You're right. It is all because "People like me" are apathetic to some stupid kids killing chickens. As I said in the first place let their parents punish them.

I said:

I knew that you wouldn't be able to comprehend that I wasn't actually insinuating that you would become a serial killer, I fully suspected that you would stop right there and not put an ounce of thought further. The fact is that each act of senseless torture diminishes us as human beings, you have said it yourself you are desensitized to the point that you have little value for an animals life, at what point do you cross over and take that attitude toward another human's life? (And I don't mean when it's a choice between your life and theirs so don't even go there with some self-defense tangent.)

You said:

Shall I read into the meaning Behind your words from now on? I mean after all it is such a complex sentence. Tell me what other results were there of the "studies" that have been done aside from peoples tendency to become something like a serial killer. Oh I know what you meant! People who kill animals do more yoga when they become adults!

And so I basically said, you're not worth further explanations. You are an exasperating individual who probably can't even put on his own underwear without Mom there to show you. It must be hard to live in your head. So, at least while you are justifying your pathetic position - tell the truth. I didn't backtrack at all, I made my point -YOU are just incapable of getting it.

:banghead:

And so I basically said, you're not worth further explanations. You are an exasperating individual who probably can't even put on his own underwear without Mom there to show you. It must be hard to live in your head. So, at least while you are justifying your pathetic position - tell the truth. I didn't backtrack at all, I made my point -YOU are just incapable of getting it.

TRL, I am curious why you feel it necessary to resort to insulting and name calling, every time you respond to me. That is another matter though, you have much the mentality of Tsa'ah.

Pathetic position? Meges brought up a very good point that did not cross my mind. I will guess here that many of the people who are so appalled at what these children did to a chicken have had lobster in a restaurant before, if not cooked it on their own. What do you think about the way we kill lobsters when we eat them.
A personal experience of mine was at a japanese restaurant in Chicago where one of the people I was out with ordered lobster. The chief proceeded to cut open the lobster, remove the meat, cook it and return it into the shell. The interesting part was that the lobster was still alive after it was all done. So there you have a lobster dinner in front of you, mighty expensive might I add, and it is staring at you, its eyes moving and its feelers feeling. But that is acceptable, boiling or frying a animal alive.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
But that is acceptable, boiling or frying a animal alive. And that equates to young teens beating some chickens with fishing rods and lacrosse sticks and setting one on fire using a lighter and aerosol can, killing it? The similarities are striking. :rolleyes:

Tossing a live chicken in a boiling pot of watter and boiling it until it dies. Yes it would. Very similar in fact.

But one is acceptable and one is not.

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by Dave]

[DeV]

If you want to take that route, were they killing for food? Was this an act of necessity? Did they pay for the chicken before the torture? Was that chicken their property to begin with?

Also, please point me in the direction of anyone who tosses live chickens into pots of boiling water until it dies.

but its okay to do it to a lobster?

[DeV]

If you are referring to the same "it" as I then no I don't think its ok.

They didn't set out to kill the animal for food or spare parts.

But you can torture a lobster?
I understand DEV, its okay to torture something ifyour going to eat it afterwords.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
But you can torture a lobster? Yes, apparently so. It's the manner in which the tortue was committed. You're looking on the surface only, which is a nice way to argue, but not productive when it comes to getting your point across.


I understand DEV, its okay to torture something ifyour going to eat it afterwords. Yes, this goes for people too.

I personally dont see the difference, torture is torture, why not end the lobsters life in a humane manner?

[Scott]

Originally posted by Dave
I personally dont see the difference, torture is torture, why not end the lobsters life in a humane manner?

You don't see the difference between blow torching an animal and dropping a lobster in a boiling pot?

[Ravenstorm]

Of course, not long ago everyone was arguing about whether lobsters can even feel pain. Scientists claim not.

A lobster is not a mammal nor a bird. There is no question they suffer.

I don't eat lobster for the record.

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
I personally dont see the difference, torture is torture, why not end the lobsters life in a humane manner? Well, Dave, I agree that torture is torture. But I think these boys knew they went beyond just having a little harmless fun with a animal that might end up being eaten anyway. Not only that, they filmed it.

Spelling

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by DeV]

[Brattt8525]

Dave you seem to be grasping at any way possible to justify your callous statement about it being just a chicken and you couldn't care less. Why not just stick with thew callous statement instead of looking for ways to justify what you said?

[HarmNone]

The reason the post was removed was that it was, indeed, off topic, Meges. This topic is NOT about abortion. It's about children torturing animals. There are a number of topics about abortion that have been ongoing in the past. You may choose one of them, or start one of your own. The subject does not belong in this thread, and is derailing to it.

The previous posts about abortion, and the answers to them will be removed from this topic.

[Meges]

Personally, if those chicken torturing kids were mine, they'd be in some serious trouble, because I don't think torturing anything is acceptable. Sure, sometimes I'd like to torture people who do horrible things to other people and even animals, but I would never really do it. For the sake of society, I have to deny some of my desires and impulses, as we all do.

Meges

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by HarmNone]

[Meges]

Originally posted by HarmNone
The reason the post was removed was that it was, indeed, off topic, Meges. This topic is NOT about abortion. It's about children torturing animals. There are a number of topics about abortion that have been ongoing in the past. You may choose one of them, or start one of your own. The subject does not belong in this thread, and is derailing to it.

The previous posts about abortion, and the answers to them will be removed from this topic.

Heh, I just read this right after I posted my latest explanation. I disagree whole-heartedly with you, but you're the boss.

Meges

[HarmNone]

Heh. You're allowed to disagree, hon. In a way, I can see where you're coming from, but the topic of abortion is a hot one and tends to derail, completely, any thread into which it is introduced.

You're welcome to start a thread on it, if you like. :)

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by HarmNone]

[cookiemonster]

Originally posted by Meges
Personally, if those chicken torturing kids were mine, they'd be in some serious trouble, because I don't think torturing anything is acceptable. Sure, sometimes I'd like to torture people who do horrible things to other people and even animals, but I would never really do it. For the sake of society, I have to deny some of my desires and impulses, as we all do.

Meges





This was kinda funny. As I read it I thought No, that's not the reason...I'm just worried I'd go to jail. hehe!

We'd all like to torture some assholes from time to time. It's normal.

And as for the lobsters, those are roaches. Well, like one step up the ladder, anyway. Stick them in the freezer so they hibernate before you boil em and they wont feel a thing.

-CM - Over 1 billion tortured to date...In my mind!

"Don't worry people, I'm only SQUISHING YOUR HEADS!"


P.S. it's been days since I read this thread so Bleh, I'm over the chickens. Punish the kids, it was wrong, move along. I'm just not worked up about it anymore.


Edited for readability

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by cookiemonster]

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Dave
I personally dont see the difference, torture is torture, why not end the lobsters life in a humane manner?

Actually the current studies have shown lobsters cannot feel pain while being boiled into a yummy side to my steak.



http://abcnews.go.com/Health/PainManagement/story?id=722163&page=1

[Edited on 5-19-2005 by Xyelin]

[cookiemonster]

I know, but some people need to feel good about it when they do it. Hibernation takes care of that ;)

Personally I'm a dropper myself. Grab em, drop em, eat em. Mmmm!

[Sean of the Thread]

Roaches and Lobsters are related...sorta. It is a common misconception and the references that the lobster is the roach of the see is due to their eating behaviors more than anything.

By sorta I mean they are both in the Arthropoda phylum... with roaches being in the hexapoda and lobsters being in the crustacea.
Basically lobsters are related to EVERY insect.

I LOVE THIS site that I'm about to link you to. Was a crutch in college.

http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Arthropoda&contgroup=Bilateria

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Dave you seem to be grasping at any way possible to justify your callous statement about it being just a chicken and you couldn't care less. Why not just stick with thew callous statement instead of looking for ways to justify what you said?

I'm not grasping at anything I am just pointing out the hypocrisy

[Warriorbird]

Punch the monkey!

[Warriorbird]

Touch the chicken!

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,67513,00.html

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Dave you seem to be grasping at any way possible to justify your callous statement about it being just a chicken and you couldn't care less. Why not just stick with thew callous statement instead of looking for ways to justify what you said?

I'm not grasping at anything I am just pointing out the hypocrisy


Cooking a lobster to eat and blow torching a chicken for the hell of it are two completely different things Dave, so yes your grasping at trying to validate why you feel as you do.

[Sean of the Thread]

Colonel Sanders torches chickens for MILLIONS TO EAT! Mmmmm. Side of mash.. mmm.

[Meges]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Punch the monkey!

Don't you mean, "spank the monkey?"

Meges

[Warriorbird]

Nah. I was referencing my link earlier in the thread.

"Punch the monkey."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/17/peta.lab/index.html

[Sean of the Thread]

This is for Bratt
http://www.wired.com/news/images/manual/67513_touchyinternet1.html
You can pet your chicken online.