Smokers, a dying breed

[Back]

So last night, after a crazy non-stop two 12 hour days in a row, I’m chilling on the balcony of my new place, having a smoke, a drink and admiring my new furniture through the window. I was at harmony. Then I heard some blinds rattle from a window one over and two up from my balcony.

:record screech:

Then a voice, in not so polite a tone busts out with, “Please don’t smoke”...

In my exhausted yet relaxed state, I contemplated the intrusion, and before I could even formulate a response, I heard the window close. I finished up and went back inside very perturbed. Ok, I was pissed. It really fucked up my night for a little while.

Now, this is someone I have never met, and I’ve been smoking on my balcony since I moved in last December. After some thought, I’ve decided how to approach the situation.

What would you have done, or do? Thoughts from the non-smokers?

[hectomaner]

tell them not to open their window if they dont like the smoke.

i mean come on. i can't even begin to understand how that person justified tell you not to smoke, at your place of residence. if they dont like the smoke coming in their window, they can shut the fucking window.

it's bad enough you cant even smoke in public buildings (restruants, bars, etc) anymore in some places, but someone to tell you NO at home.......

[Gan]

As much as I detest smoking, and find it humorous. That person has no right to tell you to stop if you are smoking on your balcony.

:lol:

[Iriscience]

I'd smoke cigars on the balcony from now on.

[DeV]

Does she pay your rent? Is your balconey also her balconey? Do you even know this broad or care about her opinion of you smoking on your own property?

If the answer to those questions is no, next time tell her to fuck off and mind her own damn business while you continue smoking like it's nothing.

I hate cigarette smoke as much as the next cigarette smoke hater, but I would never infringe on someone else's right to do it on their own property no less.

[Leetahkin]

It's weird. I like the smell of cigars and pipe, but hate cigarettes.

And everyone's right. You're out in the open, it's not like you're on THEIR balcony. The guy needs to shut up and deal with it.

[Back]

Originally posted by DeV
Does she pay your rent? Is your balconey also her balconey? Do you even know this broad or care about her opinion of you smoking on your own property?

If the answer to those questions is no, next time tell her to fuck off and mind her own damn business while you continue smoking like it's nothing.

I hate cigarette smoke as much as the next cigarette smoke hater, but I would never infringe on someone else's right to do it on their own property no less.

Well, technically, the balcony is common property at this particular condo...

[DeV]

I think you have as much right to smoke as she does to stand out there and look at clouds if she wanted.

[ElanthianSiren]

Crazy. I don't know what to tell you really. That seems stupid to me. It's not like you're smoking in her actual residence. What's the condo's policy on smoking on the balconies?

-Melissa

[Skirmisher]

First off I loathe smoking.

Now thats thats out of the way, unless there is some provision on your condo association by-laws banning smoking, the person complaining should either show some polite respect and approach you with the finesse of one who knows they do not have the right to ask what they wish.

Anyone who wants to be able to tell people to not smoke like that should buy a private residence where there are no common areas or shut the heck up untill smoking is banned throughout the US as a whole.

[Toxicvixen]

Unless the Manager or Owner of the building tells you not to smoke, I would continue to do so. I am also a non smoker from a long line of heavy smokers. You still have rights, at least until over zealous assholes decide to take them all away. You can tell her to fuck off, but I would be polite about it, that really pisses them off. :D

[Scott]

Your balcony is common property, not your own. That's why smoke free buildings allow smoking on the balcony. If you allowed to smoke on the apartment grounds, then she can't do a damn thing. However if the grounds are a "smoke free area" she might have a case. Either or, I would just keep smoking on your balcony, because unless your landlord is a complete asshole, he/she would never bother you about it.

[peam]

Throw a pipe and/or clove party.

[hectomaner]

knock on her window and say dont breathe please...

[Doyle Hargraves]

What would you have done, or do? Thoughts from the non-smokers?

Take a big drag off your smoke and hold it in. Walk up to their door, knock on it, then exhale in their face when they answer it.

Then walk away and go back to your condo as if nothing happened at all.

[Latrinsorm]

Unless you can keep your smoke from going in her window, or she has a window on the other side of the building (which it doesn't sound like), you should stop smoking in that particular area of the outside or only smoke when the wind blows away.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is tacitly approving the right of another person to swing a fist and hit them in the face.

[Chadj]

Doyle Hargraves has it.

I also agree with smoking cigars from now on.

That fucker has no right to tell you what to do. They have no right to tell you that. At all. Unless it's specifically written down that you can't do it, tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Chadj]

[HarmNone]

I'd check the rules that apply to the condominiums as a whole. If smoking is not precluded, I'd ignore whoever it is who's trying to intrude on your space. I don't smoke, but I don't run the world, either. If he/she continues to screech, he/she will have to deal with the sore throat that results from all that screeching. A better answer would be to just close the door and STFU. :)

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Unless you can keep your smoke from going in her window, or she has a window on the other side of the building (which it doesn't sound like), you should stop smoking in that particular area of the outside or only smoke when the wind blows away.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is tacitly approving the right of another person to swing a fist and hit them in the face.

I agree with Latrin. Sorry guys.

[Alfster]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I'd check the rules that apply to the condominiums as a whole. If smoking is not precluded, I'd ignore whoever it is who's trying to intrude on your space. I don't smoke, but I don't run the world, either. If he/she continues to screech, he/she will have to deal with the sore throat that results from all that screeching. A better answer would be to just close the door and STFU. :)

I wouldn't ignore them if I were you. The type of person that will open their window to tell you to put out your smoke seems to be the same type of person that will attempt to get smoking banned from the property if you go that route.

Your best option, if you enjoy smoking, would be to find a place where the smoke doesn't go in their window.

That's exactly what happened on campus here, students complained about the smoke getting into buildings and now you have to be 100 feet from any building on campus which leaves two spots that people can smoke on campus...both of which are no where near where I am.

[Toxicvixen]

He said it was one over 2 up, I don't see how his smoking is getting to her window. You must generate a LOT of smoke. :D

[Alfster]

smoke rises, depending on the wind it could easily get there

I've smoked since I was 14 and I can no longer smoke in certain bars, hell the county is even trying to get smoking in vehicles banned.

My point was, people that will tell you to put out a smoke tend to be the same kind of people who are pushing for the anti smoking laws...and you're better off moving than arguing over it.

[GSLeloo]

Maybe they have asthma? I read that at first and thought you said a 12 hour smoking session and I was gonna say "Maybe they finally snapped" but one cigarette seems extreme to get upset over. Did you have any previous altercations with them?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Unless you can keep your smoke from going in her window, or she has a window on the other side of the building (which it doesn't sound like), you should stop smoking in that particular area of the outside or only smoke when the wind blows away.



As an ex-smoker (and not the over zealous OMG you should all stop NOW kind), I agree with Latrinsorm. I think you have every right to smoke, and if you can legally smoke on your balcony, you should if you really want. Now that an objection has been raised, common courtesy (even if the non-smoker biyotch one over and two up didn't extend to you), demands it.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Backlash
Then a voice, in not so polite a tone busts out with, “Please don’t smoke”...


I may be a smoker, but I'm probably the most considerate type of smoker there is. However, if that had been me in my backyard and my neighbor said that over the fence my response would be ...

"Please fuck off."

Thankfully I don't have to put up with that shit anymore ... my closest neighbor is over a mile away now.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Tayre

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Unless you can keep your smoke from going in her window, or she has a window on the other side of the building (which it doesn't sound like), you should stop smoking in that particular area of the outside or only smoke when the wind blows away.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is tacitly approving the right of another person to swing a fist and hit them in the face.

I agree with Latrin. Sorry guys.

Here's an idea.

How about the asswipe 2 floors up and 1 over close his window and go jerk off for 5 minutes while the person downstairs minding his own business enjoys his smoke.

Christ people, it's not like smoking a cigarette takes an hour to do, and if the wind is blowing hard enough to blow the smoke even 1 condo over, the smoke is most likely going to be scattered by the time it gets there anyway. I doubt the neighbor is actually having a big cloud of smoke blown into his face. More likely he's some anti-smoking crusader and looked down and saw the guy enjoying a cigarette and decided it was his duty to save the planet from nothing.

It's his condo, let him smoke wherever the hell he damn well pleases, and not have to watch the weather channel in order to schedule his smoke time according to when the wind is blowing the other way.

Some people seriously need to pull the crowbar (or whatever object people have rammed up their ass these days) out and quit being such douchebags.

I'm an ex-smoker by the way.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
How about the asswipe 2 floors up and 1 over close his window and go jerk off for 5 minutes while the person downstairs minding his own business enjoys his smoke.How about the guy 2 floors down and 1 over close his window and smokes inside? He still gets to smoke, the other person still gets to breath. Win win!

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
How about the guy 2 floors down and 1 over close his window and smokes inside? He still gets to smoke, the other person still gets to breath. Win win!

Here's one better. Understand that smoke coming from a cigarette outside isn't going to impair the breathing of someone 10-20 feet away.

If the neighbor has a problem with said smoke, close the window for 5-10 minutes. I certainly wouldn't ask a neighbor not to light a grill, or not to mow their lawn (unless it's 7am Saturday morning), I expect the same courtesy while doing something on my property.

[Doyle Hargraves]

How about the guy 2 floors up and 1 over close his window and breathe inside?

How about he not go outside for those 5 minutes while the huge clouds of toxic smoke are blown directly into his face, forcing him to cough furiously and choke and have his head explode, as I'm sure must be the case?

How about he mind his own fucking business and stop being a douche?

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

There were young kids living in the apartment next to mine.

That being said, I'd frequent the lobby more often out of respect.

[Itachi]

I would have flicked the cigarette in her face and said mind your business bitch

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Itachi
I would have flicked the cigarette in her face and said mind your business bitch

Of course, you would. :rolleyes:

I don't think Backlash has identified the gender of the screecher. However, rather than assuming it was a 120 lb. woman, let's say it was a 280 pound linebacker-type. I'm sure you'd do the same, big and brave as you obviously are. I do hope you sell tickets! I'll travel to watch. :lol:

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Itachi
I would have flicked the cigarette in her face and said mind your business bitch


Yeah, like this:


.................................. Ow!
.................................. /
............................ - :grr:
............................


........... Mind your business bitch!
............... /
.......... :flamed: *flick*

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Itachi]

what was that movie where that Baldwin actor got that cigarette flicked in his eye and the guy was like "Fuck you!" was that on the usual suspects? Thats what popped intop my head when i said that.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Itachi]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Understand that smoke coming from a cigarette outside isn't going to impair the breathing of someone 10-20 feet away.
Some people (in my experience, all women) are more sensitive to odors in general and smoke in specific. It surprises me that you think allowing cigarette smoking falls under the umbrella of common courtesy.
Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
How about the guy 2 floors up and 1 over close his window and breathe inside?Why should he or she have to concede any more than Backlash? Some people, crazy as it may sound, don't like being unnecessarily subjected to carcinogens.

Here's an analogy: If I was firing a .22 in your general direction, would it be reasonable for me to tell you to duck for the minute it takes me to unload all my ammo? And if met with disagreement, would it be reasonable for me to state something along the lines of I'm standing on my property and it's just a minute?

The bottom line is this: cigarette smoke is both unpleasant (at least to the woman in the story) and toxic (this is beyond debate, I hope). I don't know of any precedent where the onus is on the private citizen to avoid something like that.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Why should he or she have to concede any more than Backlash?

Exactly, whch is why the guy should STFU and mind his own business. It's not like Backlash is standing in front of the guy's window blowing smoke into it.


Here's an analogy: If I was firing a .22 in your general direction, would it be reasonable for me to tell you to duck for the minute it takes me to unload all my ammo? And if met with disagreement, would it be reasonable for me to state something along the lines of I'm standing on my property and it's just a minute?

That would be against the law, assuming you're in a residential area, which in this case you are. Smoking on the balcony of your home isn't.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Some people (in my experience, all women) are more sensitive to odors in general and smoke in specific. It surprises me that you think allowing cigarette smoking falls under the umbrella of common courtesy.

Common courtesy to not complain about what someone does on their own property ... yes.

After all, smoke from a grill is far more toxic than smoke from a cigarette.


Why should he or she have to concede any more than Backlash?

Why should Backlash concede at all? The person was rude and trying to be nothing more than an ass. Dear god, someone is smoking 30 feet away from me ... outside on their balcony. I should be a rude bitch and shut my window, instead of being polite ... or just shutting my window.


Some people, crazy as it may sound, don't like being unnecessarily subjected to carcinogens.

There were no more carcinogens in said person's breathing air while he was smoking than there were prior to the incident.


Here's an analogy....

Bad analogy.

Smoke drifting up, even without a breeze, to said person's window would have no more health risk than having the window open with no one smoking 30 ft away from it.

A bullet doesn't dissipate and disperse to harmlessness in that span.


The bottom line is this: cigarette smoke is both unpleasant (at least to the woman in the story) and toxic (this is beyond debate, I hope). I don't know of any precedent where the onus is on the private citizen to avoid something like that.

Sure there is a precedent, it's called dealing with it and accepting that you are just as annoying to your neighbors as they are to you.

Grills, power tools, mowing, music, noise in general, vibration, inconsideration.

If he is smoking on his balcony, or just sitting there, he has to deal with any noise coming from that ... or any window. If he is in his home and someone nearby is grilling ... he has to deal with it or close the window.

The same applies to his neighbors. They deal with the annoyance in the same manner he has to. Shut the fucking window or deal with it ... unless it is breaking a rule, ordinance, or law.


[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Exactly, whch is why the guy should STFU and mind his own business.When the smoke goes in this person's window, it becomes her business. Similarly, I can't rationally request you stop swinging your arms about violently. But when your fists start getting near my face, I reserve the right to ask you to stop.
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Dear god, someone is smoking 30 feet away from me Jeez, by tomorrow Backlash'll be in the next county at the rate you're going.
There were no more carcinogens in said person's breathing air while he was smoking than there were prior to the incident. If the woman can smell the smoke from that distance (how else would she know about the smoking), there are particles from that smoke being inhaled by her (otherwise she couldn't smell them). Therefore, it stands to reason that at least some of those particles are of the poisonous kind.
Grills, power tools, mowing, music, noise in general, vibration, inconsideration. Disturbing the peace. :)
unless it is breaking a rule, ordinance, or law.What happened to common courtesy? Now we need a rule, ordinance, or law?

I don't see why it's so horrendous to ask that Backlash remove his access to the outside but so acceptable to ask that his neighbor remove hers, especially when Backlash is the one introducing toxic elements into the air.

If you'd like to show me scientific evidence (i.e. not "I say so, I'm Tsa`ah, and you're not" or something similar) that 5 minutes of cigarette smoke disperses rapidly enough to be no threat at such a distance, I'd have less objection.

[Back]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Unless you can keep your smoke from going in her window, or she has a window on the other side of the building (which it doesn't sound like), you should stop smoking in that particular area of the outside or only smoke when the wind blows away.



As an ex-smoker (and not the over zealous OMG you should all stop NOW kind), I agree with Latrinsorm. I think you have every right to smoke, and if you can legally smoke on your balcony, you should if you really want. Now that an objection has been raised, common courtesy (even if the non-smoker biyotch one over and two up didn't extend to you), demands it.

Yes, courtesy is the order, as it is a condo. Its not a house apart from others... its block of apartments that everyone owns into when they buy.

No doubt it is a delicate situation. Been surprised by the vulgar responses. Sure, thats the first thing I thought of, but before you get bold you've got to be strategic.

The arguments made here are exactly in my line of reasoning. Though I have to admit, some have given me room to expand on the idea.

And I never divulged the sex of said voice. Interesting to read those who decided to assign that tone to it. :P

[HarmNone]

I got a laugh out of the gender assignment myself, Backlash. :lol:

[Doyle Hargraves]

When the smoke goes in this person's window, it becomes her business.

Ya know, we don't even know if smoke actually went in her window. Considering she's 2 floors up and 1 over, chances of smoke actually floating in her window are pretty thin. I think she was being an ass just to be an ass. Probably an ex-smoker, as *most* of them tend to be giant assholes about it and think that just because they quit, everybody else has to.

If she really thinks she's so important that she can just pop her head out and rudely say, "Please don't smoke" and then close the window before he can even respond and expect him to comply, then she needs a reality check. Would you honestly obey that? Anyone with a functioning set of balls would tell her to shove it up her ass if she's going to be like that. She seems to think that he should stop smoking on his balcony because she said so. People like that piss me off to no end, regardless of what the situation is and should be run over with a lawnmower.

Now if she had tried being polite about it, that would be a whole different story.


Jeez, by tomorrow Backlash'll be in the next county at the rate you're going.

I really don't think 30 feet would be exaggerating for 2 floors up and 1 over.

[HarmNone]

As Backlash so thoughtfully pointed out, we don't know that this person was a "her". It might well have been that 280 pound linebacker I imagined. ;)

[Doyle Hargraves]

If it was a 280 pound linebacker, he probably would have said something like "Boy you better put that cigarette out before I come down there and stop yo' ass...just as soon as I finish my Chunky soup." instead of "Please don't smoke."

It's probably more likely that a guy wouldn't shut the window before Backlash could respond too.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Back]

loll. If it were that, I would have put it at the start.

Thats too funny.

[HarmNone]

Actually, I used to date a linebacker (back in the days of covered wagons, don'cha know) who hated cigarette smoke. However, he would never have said anything to anyone else about their choice of lifestyle. He had a bit more class than that. He just avoided places where there was a lot of cigarette smoke. ;)

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Jeez, by tomorrow Backlash'll be in the next county at the rate you're going.

Not knowing how much distance exists between "one over and two up", I used my home as a model. 1 over and 1 up is anywhere from 6 ft to 13 feet. Considering this is an apartment/condo building, it is probably safe to assume the distance between windows/units is greater.

Then again, I'm not comparing a dispersible smoke to a solid .22 cal bullet.


If the woman can smell the smoke from that distance (how else would she know about the smoking), there are particles from that smoke being inhaled by her (otherwise she couldn't smell them). Therefore, it stands to reason that at least some of those particles are of the poisonous kind.

It only stands to reason that there are enough "scented" particles. The "hazardous" particles have an atomic weight greater than the air you breathe. Had she been 1 down (center, left, or right) you would have an argument. After all, you can smell ammonia and bleach at great distances, both are much more toxic, yet harmless if the area is well ventilated or the fumes have dispersed enough over a distance ... say outside.


Grills, power tools, mowing, music, noise in general, vibration, inconsideration. Disturbing the peace. :)[/quote]

Sorry, but no. Those are common occurrences and are considered in no way a disturbance unless there is an ordinance against any after a specified time or decibel level.


Now we need a rule, ordinance, or law?

You can't have it both ways man. First you say "disturbing the peace", then you ask why we need a rule, ordinance, or law.

Pick one and stick to it.

As it stands, he was doing nothing wrong. Someone felt inconvenienced and got pissy about it.

Guess what, life is full of inconveniences ... you deal or you shut the fuck up about it. He was on his property doing his thing. He has to deal with them and their annoyances, they can do the same. It is really that simple.

He wasn't smoking on their balcony after all.


I don't see why it's so horrendous to ask that Backlash remove his access to the outside but so acceptable to ask that his neighbor remove hers, especially when Backlash is the one introducing toxic elements into the air.

Common courtesy. Simple as that. Said person would be no more inconvenienced with closing the window for a short span of time.

I particularly hate seeing old people in shorts and black socks. I feel it's damaging to my psyche ... I can close my blinds and not look, or I can hang out the window and yell at them for being old and wearing black socks with shorts.

I find the fumes from poorly maintained lawn mowers to be particularly irritating to my breathing. More so than 10 fat bears fans chain smoking cigars in a 20x20 "bar". I can close my window until the mowing is done however.

Listening to really bad country music while burning dogs and burgers on the grill ... half drunken NASCAR fans arguing back and forth over who's better ... Jr or Gordon ... all while mullet sporting dirt monkeys chase each other with wiffle ball bats and power tools ... tends to invoke a sense of dread over the future of society in general. I can close the windows, or leave, or ignore it, or just deal with it.

None of these are any more or less hazardous than cigarette smoke that has drifted and dispersed over a distance.


If you'd like to show me scientific evidence (i.e. not "I say so, I'm Tsa`ah, and you're not" or something similar) that 5 minutes of cigarette smoke disperses rapidly enough to be no threat at such a distance, I'd have less objection.

There are some claims that cigarette smoke contains more than 2000 different chemicals. Yet very few are listed. Instead of me proving that the woman isn’t inhaling dangerous second hand smoke (like she’s in a fucking bar or something), why don’t you just pull out a periodic table and compare the atomic weights of all the substances found in cigarette smoke (that you can find) with the atomic weights of the gases found in breathable air. Then you can use that nugget of yours to arrive at the conclusion of substances defying or adhering to gravitational pull.

Hell, you inhale more carbon monoxide walking down the street than you do sitting on a park bench a few feet away from a smoker.

[Rutilcaper]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
If the woman can smell the smoke from that distance (how else would she know about the smoking), there are particles from that smoke being inhaled by her (otherwise she couldn't smell them). Therefore, it stands to reason that at least some of those particles are of the poisonous kind.

You're kidding, right? I don't think you know shit about shit. Have you ever been near a FIRE? Can you smell a fire fifty feet away? Are you breathing in smoke then? Have you ever smoked a cigarette, or spent any amount of time around someone who has?

We don't smoke in my apartment, because some of us are non-smokers. Therefore we go out onto the balcony. Now, say my roommate goes onto the balcony when I'm in the living room, easily a good 20 feet away (maybe more!) I can smell the cigarette. Through a closed door. And I know for a fact that he doesn't smoke right next to the door. Is the smoke MAGICALLY permeating the door and infecting my lungs?

At a place where I used to work there would be a guy smoking a stogie every day near the library. I could smell the stogie BEFORE I TURNED THE CORNER. We've gotta be talking 30 feet or more. Can you honestly tell me, as a rational human being, that I was inhaling smoke at that distance?

Conversely: You can't smell shit on a city street, can you? Would you rather be twenty feet from a cigarette or two from twenty cars whizzing by you? OMG!! WE MUST STOP THE CARS FROM DESTROYING OUR LUNGS.


If you'd like to show me scientific evidence (i.e. not "I say so, I'm Tsa`ah, and you're not" or something similar) that 5 minutes of cigarette smoke disperses rapidly enough to be no threat at such a distance, I'd have less objection.

How about this? Most people smoke for 20-40 years before developing chronic disorders. That is them inhaling smoke, undispersed, directly into their lungs. I have a hard time believing that smoke from that distance poses anything other than mild olfactory discomfort. Spray some febreeze if you care that much.

I try not to be an asshole smoker. I try I not to smoke in places where it'd cause non-smokers discomfort... but we smokers have our rights too. It's his apartment, his balcony, and as long as there's nothing prohibiting it: he can do as he pleases.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
I really don't think 30 feet would be exaggerating for 2 floors up and 1 over. I don't know how far apart the windows are. What I was pointing out was that at 10:46 Tsa`ah estimated the distance at 10-20 feet. By 11:58, the distance had increased to 30 feet. Doubling every hour is a pretty big uptake.
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
You can't have it both ways man. First you say "disturbing the peace", then you ask why we need a rule, ordinance, or law.

Pick one and stick to it. I was pointing out that you were switching back and forth between the two. In the 11:58 post, you start with courtesy, and move to r/o/l.
There are some claims that cigarette smoke contains more than 2000 different chemicals. Yet very few are listed. Instead of me proving that the woman isn’t inhaling dangerous second hand smoke (like she’s in a fucking bar or something), why don’t you just pull out a periodic table and compare the atomic weights of all the substances found in cigarette smoke (that you can find) with the atomic weights of the gases found in breathable air. Then you can use that nugget of yours to arrive at the conclusion of substances defying or adhering to gravitational pull.Gravitational attraction is but one of many forces at work in this scenario. I am not reduced to a sobbing wreck whenever a bird takes flight, and I would not be particularly surprised to learn that a substantial amount of cyanide or carbon monoxide particles float in cigarette smoke either.
Then again, I'm not comparing a dispersible smoke to a solid .22 cal bullet. Almost makes a fellow wonder which one has killed more people.

I don't understand how you can simultaneously propose that people have to deal with others' inconvenient idiosyncracies without consideration of each other and that common courtesy is anything but a collection of vain and empty words.
Originally posted by Rutilcaper
Have you ever been near a FIRE?I actually burned some things today. So yes.
Have you ever smoked a cigarette, or spent any amount of time around someone who has?As a matter of fact, my younger brother's girlfriend lives in a house of smokers. We have to roll down the windows if she's in the car with my mom.
fifty feet He might end up in Oregon at this rate. :(
I don't think you know shit about shit.What I know or do not know about smoking is very irrelevant. We know that the person in Backlash story became aware of him smoking. Is the story that this person perches at their window for hours at a time, waiting for an unwary smoker to step out onto the balcony, or that this person smelled cigarette smoke?

As an aside, I don't get the purpose of your examples of smelling at a distance. What do you think a smell is, if not a chemical substance of some kind?
You can't smell shit on a city street, can you?I was actually puzzled that on my visits to NYC, the air appeared reasonably clean but I was still displeased with the overall smokiness.
Would you rather be twenty feet from a cigarette or two from twenty cars whizzing by you?Fun experiment you can try at home: Try to get a job without smoking a cigarette. Then try to get a job without driving a car.
but we smokers have our rights too.I'd like to know which law or amendment you feel covers this situation.
Most people smoke for 20-40 years before developing chronic disorders.Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence. Assuming what you say is true for the sake of argument, why should what happens to most people concern me in the slightest? Most people don't get run over by drunk drivers, should I not prevent drunken people from driving?

p.s: Junior. Obviously.

p.p.s: Leave PB out of this.

[Doyle Hargraves]

I particularly hate seeing old people in shorts and black socks. I feel it's damaging to my psyche ... I can close my blinds and not look, or I can hang out the window and yell at them for being old and wearing black socks with shorts.

I tell you what's worse than that is seeing a REALLY old person licking away at an ice cream cone. If I watched it long enough I'd probably barf, which of course could cause damage to my esophagus, and that would obviously be their fault because instead of just not looking at them, I sat there and bitched about them eating ice cream cones in my presence. Who the hell do they think they are, infringing on my rights to direct my visual attention in the direction of the location they happen to be sitting without throwing up all over the place and causing a big hole to form in my throat, just like how breathing air 30 feet away from someone who's smoking is going to cause them to get cancer and explode.


Almost makes a fellow wonder which one has killed more people.

A bullet can only kill one person (99% of the time). It would normally take thousands of cigarettes to kill a person. The bullet wins the kill count :P

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Doyle Hargraves]

What I know or do not know about smoking is very irrelevant. We know that the person in Backlash story became aware of him smoking. Is the story that this person perches at their window for hours at a time, waiting for an unwary smoker to step out onto the balcony, or that this person smelled cigarette smoke?

Am I the only one that's annoyed with the fact that people think Backlash shouldn't smoke on his balcony despite the fact that the neighbor was rude about it? I don't know about any of you, but that alone would be reason enough for me to tell the guy to eat shit (or not, since he closed his window and went back inside right away) and continue smoking on the balcony whether it bothers him or not.

Throw out the health discussion for a moment and ask yourself if you would really stop smoking on the balcony not because someone politely asked you to, but because they rudely told you to.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I don't know how far apart the windows are. What I was pointing out was that at 10:46 Tsa`ah estimated the distance at 10-20 feet. By 11:58, the distance had increased to 30 feet. Doubling every hour is a pretty big uptake.

Now you’re taking a Hulkien stab at logic.

Two posts are not enough to establish a pattern. Had there been a third in there that said 40 or 60 (I fail to see how you got double, but I'm going to pull a Lat and run with something unfounded), you would then have a point.


I was pointing out that you were switching back and forth between the two. In the 11:58 post, you start with courtesy, and move to r/o/l.

When common courtesy fails, all that is left is da rules. Courtesy failed the moment the neighbor made a demand and shut the window.

You're the one that asked "why the law?" and resorted to pointing out law in the case of annoyance. I believe you suggested daily occurrences to be a disturbance of the peace ... when in fact they were not.


Gravitational attraction is but one of many forces at work in this scenario. I am not reduced to a sobbing wreck whenever a bird takes flight, and I would not be particularly surprised to learn that a substantial amount of cyanide or carbon monoxide particles float in cigarette smoke either.

Yet you want me to prove that cigarette smoke coming from outside (the most well ventilated place you can be) from a source 30 or so feet away is not dangerous. I can point out a number of things ... Ionization, oxidation, wind, gravity, humidity or lack of it.

I choose common sense instead of extremist string grabbing however.


I don't understand how you can simultaneously propose that people have to deal with others' inconvenient idiosyncracies without consideration of each other and that common courtesy is anything but a collection of vain and empty words

Because common courtesy between neighbors is rarely existent. It is nothing more than dealing with the annoyances.

Common courtesy would be for neighbors to get together and work out when they should mow their lawns. Does it happen?
I'm sure it does in lala land, but here? Lawns get mowed when you have time, not when it's less likely to piss off your neighbor. Neighbors grill ... do you think one neighbor gives a shit if the other doesn't like the smell of a grill or is a vegetarian who doesn't want to smell cooked flesh? Not enough to NOT grill.

So yes, I'm suggesting that common courtesy is just a vain collection of empty words between neighbors. You deal with the problems that you can deal with for the sake of pseudo-peaceful co-existence.

Per the rest of your post ... smelling something doesn't mean you are directly exposed to it. After all ... you can smell arsenic, it doesn't mean your taking it in ... just detecting the presence of arsenic.

[Edited on 5-13-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Skirmisher]

What HarmNone said about her ex who hated smoke deciding to not go where there was a lot of smoke is teh winner.

My brother is very sensitive to smoke and always has been. When we were in restaurants and such we would have to make sure no smoking policies were enforced in the past or risk him having a huge coughing fit. I say this so you can understand that I am aware of how second hand smoke can be much worse for some than others.

However...those who are so sensitive should, by the time they are old enough to own a condo, KNOW they are so sensitive.

If you are so bad and unwilling to keep a window closed during the time that someone is directly below smoking, then you should buy somewhere else. Perhaps somewhere that does not allow smoking at all.

Shock of shocks, you live in a condo and you get many pros like having many home maintenance tasks done for you, but you also give up to a degree the amount of privacy and space you get when purchasing a private residence.

Now if you went up on someone's property and started blowing smoke in their face I would hope you got a shovel upside your head, but this is not the case here.

To be a nice guy and help promote good neighborly relations, you might ask if there is a particular time they are outside and try to not smoke outside then, but you do not owe them anything in my opinion.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
Am I the only one that's annoyed with the fact that people think Backlash shouldn't smoke on his balcony despite the fact that the neighbor was rude about it?Usually trying to hold people to my standard of politeness doesn't work. I'd prefer it if lots of people were more polite.
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
(I fail to see how you got double, but I'm going to pull a Lat and run with something unfounded), Average of 10 and 20: 15.
30 / 15 = 2.
Two posts are not enough to establish a pattern.That's actually a problem that came up in philosophy, it's called the curve-fitting problem or something. Depending on who you ask, an infinite number of points are insufficient to establish a pattern, because induction is a fundamentally flawed process of establishing a pattern. What I mean is, there are an infinite number of curves I could fit to any selection of points (certainly 2 or 3 points). I was being facetious anyway, so it's no big deal. :)
So yes, I'm suggesting that common courtesy is just a vain collection of empty words between neighbors.:(
Yet you want me to prove that cigarette smoke coming from outside (the most well ventilated place you can be) from a source 30 or so feet away is not dangerous. I can point out a number of things ... Ionization, oxidation, wind, gravity, humidity or lack of it.

I choose common sense instead of extremist string grabbing however. Again, I'm not the one supporting the introduction of toxins into the environment. It's the responsibility of the fellow who is producing the toxins to make sure they won't affect anyone else. (Common sense does not count as scientific evidence, btw.)

[Back]

Talked with the condo manager today and of course there are no rules prohibiting smoking on balconies. We both agreed that if I could see the smoke moving in the direction of the window, that I try to move, or do what I could to prevent it out of courtesy. But I have every right to smoke out there.

This simple phone call on my part has now stacked the odds in my favor should any future complaint occur. Not only have I verified my right with the manager, I hit the buzzer first over the concern and am now viewed by management as a kindly, concerned neighbor.

Of course I have tons of great comebacks should this person accost me again, but its my home and I don’t want to start up some grudge with someone else in the building making it less than enjoyable to live there, for either of us.

[HarmNone]

That's exactly what I would have done, Backlash. I'm glad it worked out well for you. :)

[Sean of the Thread]

This thread really brightened my day. Reminds of when my old neighbor in my apartments would leave their fucking alarm on everyday and it would go off for hours. One day I went over and brought the situation to her attention and she promptly told fuck off. Shit never ended and become a daily occurence... what a bitch.

I contemplated smashing a dead armadillo into her window but instead went to management and they took care of it.

[Keller]

Have you considered killing her cat or possibly getting the high school boys to stuff her in a locker?

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Xyelin
This thread really brightened my day. Reminds of when my old neighbor in my apartments would leave their fucking alarm on everyday and it would go off for hours. One day I went over and brought the situation to her attention and she promptly told fuck off. Shit never ended and become a daily occurence... what a bitch.

I contemplated smashing a dead armadillo into her window but instead went to management and they took care of it.

Although the armadillo idea would be really tempting, it wouldn't have stopped the freaking alarm. I'm glad you were able to get something done by going to the management. People like that woman can really drive me up a wall. :grr:

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Keller
Have you considered killing her cat or possibly getting the high school boys to stuff her in a locker?

:ohshit: :lol2:

[peam]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Keller
Have you considered killing her cat or possibly getting the high school boys to stuff her in a locker?

:ohshit: :lol2:

Seconded.

Holy shit. Heh.

[Gan]

Any outcome that doesnt lead to having the metal smith & wesson metal bracelets being applied to your wrists is always a better outcome. Not to mention that most jails are smoke free now. :whistle: