Single mother dating etiquette

[Farquar]

This may be a somewhat long post requiring some background, but I'd appreciate any analysis of the situation.

So I pass by one of NYC's posh restaurants at around 10 pm one night, having just gotten out of work. I decided to grab late a dinner by myself. I figured it would be ok, as I had my laptop with me and I could get some work done (yeah im that busy). I get really engrossed when I actually get around to doing something important, so I didnt notice that the waitress was trying to initiate conversation, and that I was giving these short, rude responses. Anyway, I looked up and noticed she was drop dead gorgeous, a super model class woman. So, I decided to have a conversation with her.

I soon realized that in addition to being a blonde green eyed Southern girl with Swedish/Russian roots, she was also smart and funny. I really thought she was perfect, and I was definitely going to ask her out (it was pretty obvious that's what she was getting at). Anyway, during the course of our talk, she revealed that she was, in fact, a single mother. This put me off a little bit, since I have no experience with the situation. But, I liked her so much that I thought I would regret not giving it a shot.

So, I "bit the bullet" and decided to see her.

Fast forward a couple of weeks, we've been seeing each other awhile, and I get along with her AND her son very well. Think something along the lines of Jerry Maguire. The three of us were walking in the city one day, when the kid sees this toy (http://www.fao.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=146&categoryId=202&parentCat egoryId=102), tries it out and absolutely falls in love with it. I figured being a single-mother/waitress in NYC doesn't afford for lots of disposable income (I didnt say it out loud), so without thinking twice about it, I whipped out my plat and bought the damn thing for the kid. I was caught up in the kid's excitement and I didn't notice mom's reaction or behavior.

Later that night, after the kid is asleep (he fell asleep in his toy), the woman just FLIPS out on me, telling me about how "we don't need your handouts" and things along those lines. I was totally stunned, since I can honestly say I had no motive behind buying the toy. I explained to her that since I work a lot, and make a lot of money in the process, I tend to spend loosely on people in my life that make me happy. She didn't believe me, we had a huge fight, and I left.

Background info about her: She's a graduate of the school of hard knocks. She had a hard childhood and has made many mistakes (although I don't think she sees her son as one, even though he was unplanned), especially in relationships. Her looks have cushioned life's blows, but shes generally very distrustful of people, espcially ones that she lets get close to her. Of couse, I'm aware that her behavior is likely a defense mechanism.

Background info about me: I work a lot. My income vastly exceeds my expenses. I have no car, and my living accomodations have been arranged so as to incur mininal expense. I don't even know how much I have in the bank. The last time I checked my accounts were in February, and I had six figures of loose cash in there, after making all my monthly retirement and investment contributions. So, whenever I make time to see family and friends, I spend lavishly, because I see them as all I have and money is no an object. I also donate a lot to the DNC and other causes.

Background info on "us": She judges me a lot. I tell her of my boyish explots in high school and then at Princeton (I kinda grew up a little when I left undergrad and entered law school), and how I barely went to class and how I always sought to do just enough to get by. She always reminds me that had she had a chance to go to those schools, she wouldn't have missed a second of class, etc, etc. She works herself up to such a point that I think shes actually upset about it. I've decided to put off my "semester of blackjack in Atlantic City" story until she cools off.

When I try to extend a helping hand, she totally refuses it. I've told her time and again that she could definitely be a model and that she should give it a shot. I have some contacts within the industry and I told her I could get her an audition or a viewing, or whatever they call it, if she wanted one. Still, she refuses, too proud and distrustful to accept my help. She is also proud of the fact that she's putting herself through college, and sees modeling as beneath her, even though shed likely make a ton more money that she ever would otherwise.

Anyway, if you're still here, I'd appreciate any analysis of the situation, your experiences with similar things, and whatever comments you may have.

I'd love to help but my services cost 500 bucks an hour. If you want I'll take 3000 up front to help with the initial advice session and any subsequent help you'll need I.e. 3am emergency sessions.

[Kainen]

As a single mother, I feel for her. If she doesn't want to model, don't push her. She has every right to be proud that she's making it her way. She shouldn't flip out on you for buying her child something, BUT she is the sole authority of that child's life and should be consulted before you buy the child anything. It's very hard as a single parent to try and make the relationship comfortable for the child as well as the boy friend or girl friend. You can sometimes get a little possessive about your position in the child's life as a single parent. As for your past.. sometimes less is more. What you might find funny and humorous as a young male.. she might find irresponsible and stupid as a single mother. Your views on life change drastically when you have a child. I am not saying LIE to her.. but honestly, unless it will change your relationship.. why tell her. And last but not least if she doesn't want your help.. don't try and shove it down her throat.. if she says no.. let it go. It might feel frustrating to you, but in the long run it wont make her feel like you think she can't take care of herself.

[Vesi]

I would be upset if I were a single mom and someone bought my child a gift that cost over $400 without consulting me first. Silly Putty or a Slinky maybe but that car?

That aside, she sounds like she wants to make it on her own and be able to tell others that. Looks get in the way with some people (because others don't take you seriously) and it sounds like that might be what's happened with her.

Don't assume because you have the money that that will 'make things better' even in family situations. It is very generous of you... but lots of people get touchy about money or expensive gifts. It's nothing against you... most of the time it is pride. (I'm not proud... U2U me for donations... hehe)

Vesi

[Edaarin]

It's only been a couple weeks, and you bought her son a $400+ toy?

That's a little weird man...might want to slow it down a little. As well, there are some people (myself included) that just don't feel comfortable accepting gifts (unless it's like from family at holidays or something). At the same time I'm surprised if she's so opposed to it that she didn't just say "Don't buy that" when you were at the store.

[Brattt8525]

Be happy she is not a gold digger, slow down and just enjoy her as the independent woman she is.

[Tsa`ah]

Eh, socially speaking ...

She doesn't realize how much "easier" it is for her as a single mother as opposed to single father. Single fathers are generally avoided like the plague by most women ... even single mothers.

This isn't a gender sort of thing however. She doesn't know how serious you are and probably doesn't know how serious she is about the relationship. It has only been two weeks right? Buying her kid a toy that she couldn't afford to buy is doing a number of things that you may not have thought about.

Buying the kids affection. Invoking financial insecurities. Invoking parental insecurities. Invoking a status gap between the two of you.

She doesn't know how long you're going to be around and she obviously doesn't want your money. Her concerns are probably becoming reliant on you and her son becoming attached to the guy that buys him cool toys.

That, and more importantly you need to understand that ALL women are frickin insane.

[Edited on 5-9-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[ElanthianSiren]

It may be a competition thing over the child, if this woman is as independent as you say she is.

Now that you have bought lil Johnny that 400.00 car, how can I EVER compete?. Also, if you're just dating and this girl is from hard knocks, I'm sure she's considered the prospect of you lavishing all this attention then leaving more than once. To a child, that's both devestating and confusing.

IMO, her anger with you in the present situation exists because she adores her son and wants to protect him -- a good quality in any parent (again IMO). She may also be a little jealous of the time you spend together if you have bonded with him, as she was his sole parent figure, it sounds, for almost seven years.

The action you take with her really depends on where you want to see this relationship go. Are you serious about her, or is this a fling? Can you even make that decision presently, given the duration of your relationship? Have you discussed parenting styles? Is she aware you ascribe to spare the rod, spoil the child?

These are all very complex considerations, and I don't expect an answer here really. However if you are looking for something serious, I'd start by telling her that you don't plan on pumping and dumping. From there, I'd take it very slowly and be sure to compromise some boundaries with her that you agree not to cross.

I think a little wariness when you have a small child is an excellent thing; I doubt you would want this woman honestly if she wasn't wary about a man she's only known a few weeks buying her son a multi-hundred-dollar gift. However, if this woman can't accept your love, affection, and generosity (in the long run), I think you're going to have problems. Good luck.

-Melissa

[Skirmisher]

I also am of the opinion that purchases/gifts for a child that is not your own in the amount of say, 50 dollars or more should always be cleared with the parents.

You never know the full situation of the family and it saves everyone from having a potentially awkward encounter such as the one you had.

I echo the thoughts that most prudent parents would be cautious at so lavish an expenditure on their child and be concerned as to the motives of the gift giver. These misgivings would only tend to be magnified when the parents income is at a much lesser level than that of the gift giver.

I would appologize for making the offer of such a gift without consulting her and offer to take full blame with the child if she decided the item was simply too much. If you really wish to pursue a relationship with this woman, your feelings seem to be in the right place and your desire to help laudable.

I would caution you to let her pride and protective nature be always in the front of your conciousness. When in doubt, ask her her opinion.

I would also say that as impressive she may be for working hard to provide for herself and her child, don't forget that there are some people who tend to wrap themselves in the humbleness of their upbringing to the point of being at least as haughty as those who fit the more well known snooty rich snob stereotype.

Neither person is fun to be around.

[Wezas]

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/tristar_pictures/jerry_maguire/cuba_gooding_jr_/jerry1.jpg

"a real man wouldn't shoplift the pootie"

(on a more serious note - I agree with what people here say. That is too expensive of a gift to be giving a child without speaking to the parent first. If you're serious about this relationship, I'd have a sit down with her and talk rules. It looks like she's playing the "tough single mom" role, which is fine - but you two just need to set some ground rules.)

[Edited on 5-9-2005 by Wezas]

[Jadewolff]

I agree with everyone else too. But I do want to add...

Keep us updated with how it goes? I'm curious to know what you decide to do (i.e. talk it out with her, etc.).

[Gan]

1. Apologize profusely without buying her an "I"m sorry present". Words and actions tend to alot further than material things when she's in this frame of mind. Make her a good dinner and treat her to a 'non-platinum' night of home cooked food and good music.

2. Promise to consult her in the future when it involves purchasing things for her little boy - let it be her idea. The world revolves around him but she's the one in the driver's seat. She'll go to hell and back for him, and if she perceives you as a competitive threat for his affection/loyalty because of what you can obtain for him then she's going to lash out if not remove you from the equation entirely. She needs her son to be totally loyal to her (he might be the only person who is), which is not easy when she's both provider/parent and disciplinarian.

3. Talk talk talk to her, get her to elaborate why she was upset and talk it out. Did I mention the importance of communication? If you're invested in this relationship then you'll probably have to keep opening up first in order to get her to do the same. She's got a major hurdle of money insecurity and her viewpoint is dismal on those who have it (stereotype) - because she's had to work so hard to provide for her and her son. Prove to her that even though you might have made foolish decisions when you were younger - and that you had the help of family when you were in school, that you are now a responsible adult with a different outlook and greater responsibilities. An example of self sacrifice might be in order but you'd have to be the judge of what that was or would be. She wants you to know how her struggle has shaped her (and she's proud of her accomplishments). Perhaps she wants to find common ground in something that you've had to work hard for or to struggle for. If you've never worked hard for/struggled for anything, how does she know you'll work hard for your relationship for her and her son? She's looking for a good man to help her and her son along this journey, perhaps you should soldier up and show her some battle scars to prove to convince her that you can be counted on when needed.

4. I wonder if by her working in a posh resturant, how is she treated by the more affluent patrons and has that shaped her perspective on those who have wealth? You might keep this in the back of your head when trying to understand her view of things. This might or might not have anything to do with her reaction to the purchase so I thought I would include it.

5. Stop STop STOp STOP donating to the DNC!!! (I know this is a stretch, but I have to try.)

Good luck - she sounds like an outstanding find in that jungle of a city you live in.



[Disclaimer: The above advice comes from a 35 yr. old moderate republican Texan male who's been married for 12 years and has a 2 year old son. Everything in this post, if accompanied by a few sawbucks will provide the reader with low level eye occupation and a nice drink. That is all.]

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
That, and more importantly you need to understand that ALL women are frickin insane.

[Edited on 5-9-2005 by Tsa`ah]

Seconded.

[ElanthianSiren]

:heart: Ganalon. ...all but the DNC bit.

I'd like to echo the sentiment of wanting to know how the whole thing shapes up. You have us interested now, you can't just stop telling the story, or we'll make up the ending! ...and you've seen the conspiracy threads on this board! Mwahahhaa

-Melissa

[Farquar]

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate your viewpoints, especially those of the single mothers and those of you with kids of your own. RangerD1, just send me a bill haha.

I agree that an expensive gift may seem inappropriate to people who don't know me, but I was at the point in the relationship where I was feeling pretty comfortable, and I told her this. I thought I also hinted that I buy very nice gifts for my friends, and I considered it "fair warning". So, I didn't see the gift as totally out of context.

Her waitressing at an NYC hotspot has colored her impression of "successful" people. She has told me that the execs, the lawyers, the brokers, and the traders frequently make lewd and inappropriate remarks. It makes me a little mad when I hear this, but she's learned how to deal with it.

Anyway, the events in my previous post happened a couple of months ago, so I know exactly what happened afterwards. The event did stick in my head (it still does), and thats why I wanted some input to see if it came out like it should have. I also have other interesting stories involving her, like the first time I met "the dad". I do have a filing im working on that has to be in before the start of the working day, so I'll be a little cruel and keep you guys on the hook for awhile ;)

[Sylph]

You should have asked her if you could buy her kid a gift...


But do it like... Oh so you want that, eh? /squatting down to eyelevel with the kid


I dunno... Does your mum think you've been a good enough boy lately to get a gift? /stand and look at her

Because... If she thinks so... then ill just have to take her word for it and see what I can arrange with the shopowner.



She'll probably say yes... then you walk in and make a show of bringing it back to him and be like... WELL I just had to sign away my soul for such a fine item!




Be playful with it and she'd probably had thought worlds of it! :p

[Soulpieced]

In response to the thread title, don't do it :D

[Edited on 5-10-2005 by Soulpieced]

[Glavenfyre]

^^^^ Agree wholeheartedly ^^^^

[Caiylania]

Learn from it and talk to her about what she feels are lines that she isn't ready for you to cross yet. Don't take offense, and respect what boundaries she sets.

My mom was a single mother, and some good men came into her life but it was hard on her because sometimes it was hard to judge her happiness vs what those relationships did to our relationship. One guy I remember would take us to a zoo and then my mom out to dinner, or make her dinner as a switch from her always cooking. Lots of little things, a great guy. To bad he had to move (dumb army life)

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Sylph
You should have asked her if you could buy her kid a gift...


I agree.


I dunno... Does your mum think you've been a good enough boy lately to get a gift? /stand and look at her

I wouldn't recommend this. If Mom says "No", she has just become the bad guy. A simple raised eyebrow in Mom's direction or a quick whisper in her ear should be enough to indicate what you're thinking. If she then says "No", the kid never knows the offer was on the table.

Jorddyn

[The Korean]

Since all this has happened a couple of months ago, I want details of what's been going on. You've made me insanely curious.:popcorn2:

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by The Korean
Since all this has happened a couple of months ago, I want details of what's been going on. You've made me insanely curious.:popcorn2:

And heavens know we don't want an insane Korean with idle hands so please tell him for the good of us all.:smilegrin:

[The Korean]

....

and what's that supposed to mean? I haven't blown anything up in at least a year.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by The Korean
Since all this has happened a couple of months ago, I want details of what's been going on. You've made me insanely curious.:popcorn2:

He bought the kid a puppy. A delicious little terrier. :saint:

[The Korean]

Terriers are too chewy.

[Skeeter]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
In response to the thread title, don't do it :D



That was always my philosophy. This will be a popular opinion, but I always considered children like a case of herpes... completely untouchable. I can handle a little baggage, but kids are too much for me. Probably missed out on some really great women that way, but such is life.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by The Korean
Since all this has happened a couple of months ago, I want details of what's been going on. You've made me insanely curious.:popcorn2:

He likely has "shoplifted the pootie" by now... (as they seem to still be together) :lol: ... but I doubt that he'll mention it!

[The Korean]

I figured that's had to happen at least several times. Was just wondering if they're still together, how the situation played out, and how meeting the "dad" went.

[Atlanteax]

On a semi-related note...

I am of the opinion that more often than not... single moms are much more down-to-earth than women of the same age w/o kids.

They do not seem as "high maintance" (nevermind the kid) and also seem to handle their lives and expectations more practically.

Another plus is that the "dating game" is much more straight forward (nevermind the complicities of interacting with the kids) as she seems more likely to say thing as-is instead of hinting ad nauseam.

[xtc]

Dump her, the girl has baggage, never take on someone else's problems.

You’re what young, single, educated, and moneyed? Women will flock to you like bees to honey. I too have a lot of disposable income (none of which goes to the DNC) and the last thing I would do is date a waitress with a kid. Sleep with her fine but don’t date her

XTC is a pimp.

[Glavenfyre]

Man, be careful, depending on where you live, if you shack up with her for a few months you may be liable to pay child support. Such is the case in the great old state of Washington.

[Gan]

6 months of living in the same dwelling and sharing bills is considered common law in Texas. Courts really go after it if a child is involved in the process regardless of parentage.

[ElanthianSiren]

::jeopardy music plays::

I think Farq's holding out on us.

-Melissa

Washington is le sux

[Farquar]

Call me a masochist, but I like high maintenance women, and I like women with a little baggage. I just love a challenge and I am attracted to women who challenge me. I also like pushing people's buttons sometimes, just for the fun of it. I understand the risks though, so I don't worry too much.

So here's the continuation of the story:

So, when I left her apartment (it was a Thursday night), I decided that I would break off contact for a bit to let her cool off. For the next couple of days, I took an alternate route home from wok so I wouldn't pass by her restaurant, and I stayed home playing WoW and watching tv. I also resisted the urge for what I call the Tiffany's Quick Fix. As I got to thinking alone over the next couple of days, I got myself a little worked up, and was getting madder about the way she reacted. I decided that I would at least act angry when she called, but a few days passed and she didn't call.

Monday morning rolls around, and I'm getting ready for work. I'm in my kitchen reading the early paper, when I get a ring from my doorman at about 7:00 am. He says that a rather distraught woman wants to come up. I think to myself "oh shit, she's gone off the deep end." I'm dreadfully curious though, and I tell the doorman to send her up anyway.

So I wait anxiously for a knock on the door, and it comes. I get up, straighten my tie, and open the door. I prepare my "I'm just as mad as you" act.

I open the door, and there she is, wearin sweats, hair all messed up, no makeup. She looks like shes been crying for a while. She manages to blurt out "i'm so sorry" before she breaks down. Like most men, I'm comletely defenseless when it comes to crying, and my act and any semblance of anger go out the window. I take her hand and pull her into a hug, and I whisper "its ok babe" into her ear. Somehow, we start kissing, and well, I was late for work that day.

I made her breakfast and we taked about what happened, and she essentially stated what you guys stated. She felt insecure about the kind of life she was giving to her son, and that while she could handle the emotional roller coaster of adult relationships, her son could not. She was also a bit saddened that she had never seen her son so happy as he was when I bought the toy, and that she didn't want to be the cause of him not being happy, and she didn't outright object. I apologized, but she didn't accept my apology. Instead she apologized for being oversensitive, and thanked me for bringing joy to her son.

I then told her that no matter what happens between us, that I considered her and her son to be my friends, and that they could always count on me if they needed me. Corny, I know, but I meant it.

[Jadewolff]

Awwww

:heart: corn!

So I take it things are going well since that was 2 months ago?

[The Korean]

let's go for a happy ending. continue the story!

[Gan]

Outstanding

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Farquar
Somehow, we start kissing, and well, I was late for work that day.

Score!!! :up:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Farquar
I also resisted the urge for what I call the Tiffany's Quick Fix.

Way to spoil women for all other men. :rolleyes:

[Caiylania]

I'm glad to hear it worked out, and while I don't always agree with you, it sounds like you are a good guy. Best wishes always :)

[DeV]

Good stuff Farquar.

You've got some patience there, and the fact that you waited on her to make the first move after the argument (considering you didn't really do anything *wrong*) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[HarmNone]

Sounds like two pretty nice people came to an understanding of one another. Congratulations. :)

[Kainen]

I have to admit that kinda renews my faith in relationships. Glad to hear that things turned out the way they did.

[Bobmuhthol]

Single mothers make me want to punch people in the head.

I too was a stupid child and could be bought off by the shiniest presents.

Until you begin working daily with single mothers in their late teens/very early 20s, is when you gain an iota of insight into the fucked up lives they live.

[Jolena]

Hate to ask but I can't contain the curiousity. Why, Bob, do single mothers make you want to punch people in the head?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Why, Bob, do single mothers make you want to punch people in the head?>>

Because it means they either had a child before being married or were divorced with a child.

The first situation is caused by stupidity and should never happen.

The second situation I can never condone. Divorce should not have to come about. Learn how to marry.

Widows don't count in case anyone tries to work in that scenario.

[ElanthianSiren]

Go you :)

Compromises are good -- a little give and take, push and pull...

-Melissa

[Jolena]

I see. So you personally don't believe that there is ever a reason for divorce because the spouses should know everything about each other (or at least enough to know if they will be cheaters/abusers, etc) before marrying. Is that correct? If not, I'd like to know how you feel about that.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So you personally don't believe that there is ever a reason for divorce because the spouses should know everything about each other (or at least enough to know if they will be cheaters/abusers, etc) before marrying.>>

I don't believe there is ever a reason for divorce because I like to think that society isn't that fucked up that this would happen to people that don't deserve it. There's something wrong with someone if they get married and are abused later down the road. Adultery is slightly different. In both cases, though, the fact that the couple has a child should be enough for both of them to not become a criminal or cause harm to the relationship.

That's not to say it doesn't happen, or that the victim should stay married, but it shouldn't happen. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out that the person isn't a very good partner. I feel strongly about this especially when a child is involved. Personally, I feel bad for children with divorced parents. A lot of the time it's not because of adultery or abuse, either.

[cookiemonster]

On this one I gotta go with XTC.
First off, you've only known her a few weeks. What the hell is she doing introducing you to her son???

That's something you do after you guys have hung out a while
and she's pretty damn sure you're going to be "Mr Right".
There's no excuse for running strange men by your kids especially
after a divorce.

Second, she's more concerned with you paying attention to her than she is with how you treat her kids. This has all the markings of
a single mom who never really wanted to be a mom anyway and
looks at her child as a burden more than anything. Sure, she may love him
but the feeling is still there, I guaran-damn-tee it.

[Jolena]

You're right Bob, there is something wrong with someone who gets married and is abused later on down the road. However I'm sure our definition of something wrong is totally different. There are many many instances where the spouse is not aware of the abusiveness of their partner until years into the relationship after kids are born and then what do they do? Do they stay and work it out, risking their own children in the process? Do they leave and worry over the child dealing with an absent parent down the road?

Something is definately wrong with the spouse abused and in my opinon it is normally that they suffer emotional and sometimes permanent physical defects from the abuse. Not always, but there are times that the permenant physical effects occurr. I don't however believe that in all cases the spouse abused had something inherantly wrong with them and that is why they were abused.

Coming from a divorced household, where my parents waited until I graduated from highschool before divorcing, I'd have to say that I would have rather they had not waited. My mother and father both were extremely unhappy in the last 3 years of their 16 year marriage and both suffered from the prolonging of it. Not to mention that I noticed that things were not kosher with them no matter how hard they tried to hide it from me so I too suffered during the process of them waiting.

I think one has to look at each individual relationship in order to judge whether or not divorce is needed and exactly who is to blame. I do believe that it is the inherant nature of people to change over time and sometimes those changes can cause you to be completely incompatible with your spouse.

[Ylena]

Forget the abuse part. It's entirely possible for two people to get married and grow/change apart. Trust me.

People don't get married with the intention of getting divorced. I certainly didn't. But my ex and I changed in ways that made it impossible for us to have a happy, mutually supportive relationship.

There is no blissfully perfect happy ever after. If you're lucky, there's happy some of the time and content for the rest of it.

[Brattt8525]

I can agre with some of what Alex is saying and I wish all marriages could be as easily sustained and truely be true to the vows we take when marrying. Sadly divorce is getting more and more abundant, part due to changing/growing apart but mostly if you are honest it is just easier to divorce then it is to change/work on the relationship.

People need to try harder, and work together to keep a marriage happy and functioning. When there is children involved it is more important to actually put in the effort then to take the easy road out. Now I don't mean those who were abused, an abusive spouse is one that needs to be gotten away from especially if there are children in the home.

I know that I personally let my relationships fall apart in the past. There were things I could have done to help but I didn't it just seemed easier to move on then to work on a lifetime commitment. I have learned my lesson the hard way.

[Axhinde]

Farqar, sounds like you met an honest and level-headed woman. Hope everything works out for the both of you.

[ElanthianSiren]

I think people need to realize before a wedding ring is put on another person's finger, that ring has to be around their heart. I know that sounds sappy, and it's borderline off topic here, but what can you do? :shrug:

-Melissa

[Chelle]

Seems like when women accept gifts they're labled as gold digging bitches, and when they prefer not to accept gifts they're being overly sensitive. So its a lose lose situation.

Though personally if someone did that for my kid I would think its very sweet and simply say thank you and not flip out.

[Chelle]

Bob, I think sometimes men have a way of hiding their true self until after the honeymoon. Sneaky bastards.

I gotcha now bitch, so get ya ass in the kitchen and make me a sammich before I take a tire-iron to your skull.

:wow:

[KymberlynX]

Originally posted by Chelle
Bob, I think sometimes men have a way of hiding their true self until after the honeymoon. Sneaky bastards.

I gotcha now bitch, so get ya ass in the kitchen and make me a sammich before I take a tire-iron to your skull.

:wow:

What is that joke about the couple about to get married...both are at the altar with a shit-eating grin on their faces. Him, because he thinks that now that he's going to be married he never has to worry about getting a BJ, her because now that she's married, she feels like she doesn't have to give them anymore. :lol:

[Sylph]

LOL KYM!


Those sneaky women!:no:

[ElanthianSiren]

One must give to receive :P

I've been in an abusive relationship, and honestly, there were times when I thought my ex's actions were friggin weird, but I had never been abused, so I didn't have a barometer to know he was abusive. I think that's a problem that you really can't get around until you've been there.

Physical abuse is a lot easier to self-diagnose than mental abuse imo. In my case, my ex was very mentally abusive and manipulative, but he would always find a way to make you think otherwise and make you feel sorry for him. "I didn't really mean that" "You know I wouldn't say something like that..." "I love you, why would I imply something like that..." "man, (insert friend name) is so full of shit/such a leech/childish (insert insult of your choice)" and so on and so on.

Once I learned the patterns of an abuser: isolating the abused, trying to absorb the world of the abused, disregard for the problems of others, including the abused etc etc the situation became a lot clearer to me. Of course, it didn't help that in our last argument he directly threatened me, my friends, and threw me into a door :)

-Melissa