Theocracy

[Kefka]

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. - A pastor of a small Baptist church led an effort to kick out church members because they didn't support President Bush, members said.

The nine members were voted out at a Monday meeting of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in this mountain town about 120 miles west of Charlotte. WLOS-TV in Asheville reported that 40 other members resigned in protest.

"It's all over politics," said Selma Morris, the church's treasurer. "We've never had a pastor like that before."

Pastor Chan Chandler had told the congregation before last year's presidential election that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said Lorene Sutton, who said she and her husband were voted out of the church this week.

MORE:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/church_politics

[Kefka]

"Kathy Martin, a member of the state board of education, and her family built it on their farm this spring, gathering weathered chunks of limestone from the horse pasture and laying them on a hillside.
The cross is a proud expression of Martin's faith. And as hearings challenging the role of evolution in the state's school science curriculum began Thursday, that cross left little doubt about where she stood in the debate.

"Evolution is a great theory, but it is flawed," said Martin, 59, a retired science and elementary school teacher who is presiding over the hearings. "There are alternatives. Children need to hear them…. We can't ignore that our nation is based on Christianity — not science." snip


Whichever curriculum proposal the board adopts in a vote planned for this summer, members say, it would serve only as a guideline for teachers, thus giving educators more leeway in the classroom. But the standards do determine what is included on statewide tests, and students would be required to learn that material.

"Part of our overall goal is to remove the bias against religion that is in our schools," said William Harris, a chemist who was the first witness to speak Thursday on behalf of changing the state's curriculum. "This is a scientific controversy that has powerful religious implications."

snip

In a crowded meeting hall across the street from the state Capitol on Thursday, more than 100 onlookers and members of the news media listened as the first of the hearing's 23 expert witnesses explained why the theory of evolution was flawed.Christine Caffy, 15, carefully took notes on each speaker's position. The ninth-grader from Bishop Seabury Academy in Lawrence had recently studied evolution in her biology class and came here to learn more about the debate.

Afterward, she was curious and confused.
"I came here thinking that I understood evolution, that I understood the facts," Christine said. "But now, I don't know what to think. Who's right? Is the science that I'm learning really true?"

That sentiment infuriates scientists, a group of whom had gathered nearby. They insisted that though evolution should be open to criticism, the classroom was not the place for critiques based on religion.

"If you want to know about science, ask a scientist. If you want to know about faith, ask a minister," said Robert Hagen, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Kansas.

snip

There is a growing sentiment that, no matter what is said during the hearings, the board of education has already decided how it will vote.
"I respect all viewpoints and I will listen to their ideas," Martin said this week. "But I don't see me changing my mind."


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-evolution6may06,1,7929126.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

[ElanthianSiren]

Wow -- those voting booths musn't have privacy curtains in those towns. I mean WTF?

I think organized religion is permitted to ostracize/throw out whomever they want, but by the same token, your right to vote is yours and private. If you really really really wanted to be part of that church, and I can't see why you would want to be part of an organization that tried to force you into relinquishing one of your most precious American rights, just STFU and go to chuch and be like "Oh yes, I voted for Bush."

-Melissa

[Kefka]

http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr003=2u49khpxv3.app5b&abbr=pr& page=NewsArticle&id=7353&security=1002&news_iv_ctr l=1241



Church Split In North Carolina Shows Dangers Of Partisan Politics In Pulpit, Says Americans United
Friday, May 6, 2005
Church Electioneering Bill In Congress Would Invite More Disputes Over Politics In Houses Of Worship, Says AU's Lynn

A bitter controversy over partisan politics at a North Carolina church shows the danger of electioneering in the pulpit, according to Americans United of Separation of Church and State.

According to news media reports, the Rev. Chan Chandler of East Waynesville Baptist Church in Haywood County told members that they must vote for President George W. Bush. Nine members who did not do so have since been told to leave the congregation. An additional 40 members have reportedly left in protest.

“This is an outrage,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Houses of worship exist to bring people together for worship, not split them apart over partisan politics.

“I think there is an important lesson here for the whole country,” Lynn continued. “Americans do not expect to be ordered to vote for certain candidates by their religious leaders.”

Religious Right groups have been pressing evangelical churches to get deeply involved in partisan politics, Lynn said, and this kind of controversy is the natural outcome.

Lynn said matters will become even worse if a bill now pending in Congress becomes federal law.

H.R. 235, a measure introduced by Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.), would allow clergy to endorse candidates from the pulpit and still retain a tax exemption of their house of worship.

“Introducing partisan politics into our churches is a terrible idea,” said AU’s Lynn. “I hope this incident in North Carolina will cause our members of Congress to reject Rep
. Jones’ bill.”

[ElanthianSiren]

I think creationism is a crock. End story, and I find it offensive and absolutely biased that we're now bringing in the Christian view of the formation of Earth without the Hindu, Pagan, and other faiths as well under the guise of "alternatives".

Come the hell on. Just call it what it is and say we're erroding the very principles of the constitution: one of which is separation of church and state. You want to be all up on religion -- send your kid to a catholic/charter school.

-Melissa

[Gan]

Just scary it is. I'm a religious person and I believe that everyone should have a spiritual root somewhere involving something whether its a God, Allah, a Goddess, or a bottle of Jack. However, when others start forcing their idealism on you it sucks.

If I'm interested in what you're doing I'll ask you. If I dont ask then take that is a huge BUT THE FUCK OUT sign and go on with your merry way.

The church in the first post has the right to vote in or out whomever they want. However, if they start basing their membership on political affiliation then I think it starts violating and even negating their right to be called a recognized church/organized religion and thus affecting their ability to receive all the benefits thereof as allowed by the US Constitution.

[Apotheosis]

If a pastor in any church that I attended said that, (not that I go to church), I would immediately leave that church, and become a buddhist.

[Gan]

I know of a few churches who have voted out pastors for bringing government politics onto the pulpit. Church politics is enough to deal with, having to deal with that too is just insanity.

[Back]

I move we change the word “theocracy” to “theocrazy”. Its only one letter. I’ll call Mirriam-Webster if we agree.

[Hulkein]

Good one.

[Parkbandit]

I would have the same outrage if it were a Democratic Pastor exerting his demands over the voting rights of his Republican followers.

[Back]

Actually, you've pin-pointed how it works.

The big IF. Scary thing that. The unknown. Or do you have hold of some secret plans that someone has against us? And if you do, would you share them with your neighbors, or would you just get the phuc out of Dodge?

[Hulkein]

How about not giving people sandwiches and 5 dollars in the city unless they vote for the democrat?

I think that's just as effective.

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein
How about not giving people sandwiches and 5 dollars in the city unless they vote for the democrat?

I think that's just as effective.

Thats an outrageous claim you can't back up.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Hulkein
How about not giving people sandwiches and 5 dollars in the city unless they vote for the democrat?

I think that's just as effective.

Thats an outrageous claim you can't back up.

No worse than the outrageous claims that Democratic blacks were turned away at the polls in Florida and that their right to vote was denied.

It's that whole 'BOTH PARTIES RESORT TO THE SAME BULLSHIT TACTICS' I was talking about in another thread.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah Hulkein, get something from a reputable source like Yahoo.

[Back]

Yeah, your everybody-is-corrupt-so-what-if-we-are tactic. Not everyone is corrupt.

[Hulkein]

No one writes stories about people having food laid out near voting areas because it's not illegal or compelling. You go, vote, get food.

I've seen it with my own eyes, never read about it though, sorry.

Edited to add - I never have seen anyone being handed money, so I admit that I can't back that up in any way. I've just heard that.

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Hulkein]

[ElanthianSiren]

I can't vouch for an entire political party; I don't think any of us can. What I can say are things that I personally would not do as a person and would find repugnant in others: one of those things is trying to influence the way a person votes with something as paramount as religion and/or basic needs.

We can, of course, accuse all we want, but I don't think monitors were allowed past background checking in the last election, nor were they allowed behind the curtain to make sure someone voted for the "correct" person. :D

-Melissa

[Warriorbird]

:laughs: Both parties are corrupt as the day is long.

Unfortunately, Parkbandit, I think you'd be hardpressed to find as many religiously fucked up Democrats, and you know it.