Lockpicking - Lmaster Focus vs 403/404

[Taar]

So i've been away for a few years and I don't recall Lmaster Focus being a thing back when I was around (Maybe I just missed it being there - it's been 4 years or so I think).

Capped rogue with 403/404 (404 max spell currently).
Rogue GuildMaster

Is 403/404 always better than Focus or what's the best way to figure it out? Yes there are formulas, but little confused on how 403/404 work at this point anymore.

Using the Focus formula it gives me a bonus of 126 based on that (I think?). Any thoughts/help would be appreciated.


Thanks

[Mobius1]

LM Focus is better, unless you are using the water lore benefit of 403/404.

[Taar]

Not using any of the lore benefit. I guess the main thing I was trying to figure out, is can I drop the spells all together.

Are there any scripts out that that calculate the bonuses for 403/404/Focus to give me exact numbers?

Thanks for the response!

[Mobius1]

The LM equation is pretty straightforward. 2 x LM rank + (Dexterity bonus / 2)

So say 25 Dex bonus and LM master, you'd get +138

[Taar]

Yeah that one wasn't hard to figure out but I was having a hard time figuring out what the 403/404 bonuses were though. Which made it impossible for me to compare at that point.

[Mobius1]

Level / 2 + Picking locks ranks / 10 + Dex Bonus + MnE ranks/4. So say level 100 with 303 picking ranks, 25 Dex bonus, and 4 MnE spells known. 50 + 30 + 25 + 1 = 106

Say you had Dex enhanced to 50 bonus, and had 80 MnE ranks, that would still just be 150 bonus. Conversely, that extra Dex would make your LM focus bonus become 150 as well. So you'd literally have to have over 50 Dex bonus and or over 80 MnE ranks, for 403/404 to get a higher bonus. Well, I guess if you enhanced your picking by +50, that would be an extra +5 bonus....

If you aren't high level - even more reason to use LM focus, as it's not so level dependent (Outside of the guild wall).

[Taar]

Level / 2 + Picking locks ranks / 10 + Dex Bonus + MnE ranks/4. So say level 100 with 303 picking ranks, 25 Dex bonus, and 4 MnE spells known. 50 + 30 + 25 + 1 = 106

Say you had Dex enhanced to 50 bonus, and had 80 MnE ranks, that would still just be 150 bonus. Conversely, that extra Dex would make your LM focus bonus become 150 as well. So you'd literally have to have over 50 Dex bonus and or over 80 MnE ranks, for 403/404 to get a higher bonus. Well, I guess if you enhanced your picking by +50, that would be an extra +5 bonus....

If you aren't high level - even more reason to use LM focus, as it's not so level dependent (Outside of the guild wall).

Awesome. Thank you. The 106 sounds like where I would be at. When did LM Focus come out? Guess I can ditch the 4 spells and use that for something else.

[Mobius1]

It was a change that came with PSM. And yeah, I recommend to just about everyone that they drop the spell ranks, unless you have other reasons for having spells.

[Taar]

It was a change that came with PSM. And yeah, I recommend to just about everyone that they drop the spell ranks, unless you have other reasons for having spells.

Perfect. Appreciate your help!

[Asha]

I know this is probably moot now because you have your build and you're happy with it but spells are so powerful its a shame not to have them for defensive purposes as a rogue that's capped. I saw you want to be 0 spells, are you going Kroderine Soul then? May as well

[Mobius1]

It's just really hard to get them without a lot of post cap XP. Especially if you also train for picking!

[kutter]

It does not even make sense to keep spells for spellburst since you can get roughly 30 ranks of MIU or AS for the TP's to get 4 spells. Way post cap it might make sense, but it will be way post cap for me.

[Nordred]

It's only 4 spells. You aren't talking any hit to redux or anything affecting martial mastery. It wouldn't be a bad idea if you were choosing to try hunting an area like Hinterwilds to shift it to 401 and up to 103. Then you can toss up 3 useful defensive spells and are able to add two more outside ones do to the spell rules up there. Not that those would make much a difference but better than nothing.

[Asha]

It does not even make sense to keep spells for spellburst since you can get roughly 30 ranks of MIU or AS for the TP's to get 4 spells. Way post cap it might make sense, but it will be way post cap for me.

I'm confused.
Are you saying why bother learning the spells when you can use MIU or scrolls instead? In spellburst /sever areas?
Spells are the difference between DS:550 in offensive and DS:470 in offensive, opening you up to most attacks.

I've tried the no spell route and no matter what I did (without DB) I couldn't find a manageable DS, Kroderine Soul included.
I honestly think Rogues were supposed to have spells.

[Mobius1]

I actually think most rogues don't learn spells and don't want to either. Spell Sever is a sad shift in a wrong direction, IMO. It's also pretty bi-polar, when they introduced skills like martial mastery which are negatively impacted by learning spells.

If you stay away from Atoll/HW, then there's really no major benefit from learning spells, since as was mentioned, you can just learn some spellburst skills to wear the spells.

I personally very much dislike the way Spell Sever shoe horns rogues into learning spells, learning KS, or being at a major disadvantage. Thankfully you can avoid it altogether if you don't hunt those areas.

[Taar]

Didn't even realize this thread was still going. Appreciate the feedback. I run an MA group so not having spells isn't the end of the world. I just end up picking boxes for the group though hunting would be fun again. I'll have to think about it. I have not adjusted my spells yet but now use focus to open boxes.