Um..Marijoo-wana's bad. Dont smoke Marijoo-wana Mkaaay.

[cookiemonster]

Just a heads up too all you teens and tweens (I know there's some out there!)
Also good info for all you old farts.
Wonder why you're not as sharp as you used to be?

New pot news:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/05/03/pot.risk/index.html

[Edited on 5-6-2005 by cookiemonster]

[Delirium]

I dunno if i believe the conclusion this story has. I mean are they trying to say smoking pot causes mental illness? To me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medication or a means of escape from whatever trauma theyve been thru. Or just the mental illness stops them from having the proper impulse control. Either way i mean, if a kid is smoking crack before he gets out of diapers, id bet he has a much higher chance of being mentally ill as well.

[Warriorbird]

Heh heh. Even CNN can advocate dubious science. Media isn't as liberal as some people say.

[Back]

One study he cited was published last year in the Archives of General Psychiatry. It involved 600 pairs of same-sex twins, one of whom was dependent on marijuana and one of whom was not. The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.

Where in the hell did they find 600 same-sex twins with one of the two dependent on weed? What are the odds?

I will whole-heartedly agree that 12 year olds should not smoke anything, its probably best not to until at least 18.

[Back]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Heh heh. Even CNN can advocate dubious science. Media isn't as liberal as some people say.

Thats what I’ve been trying to say for the longest time. The media is no longer liberal. Its corporate.

To me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medicationTo me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medicationTo me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medication

I copied it 3 times.

[Jorddyn]

The earlier a young person uses marijuana the greater the risk for mental health problems later in life, the director of National Drug Control Policy said Tuesday, basing his conclusion on a survey of medical research.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Jorddyn

Edited because the damn shift key has a mind of its own.

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Jorddyn]

[Back]

I think the author of the study has been smoking some kind bud myself.

[cookiemonster]

In any case, I for one wish I hadn't been so "liberal" with my weed smoking back in the day.

Even if it affects your mental health by 1 point on a scale of
1 to 1,000,000 - think of what that could mean to some people.

It could mean the difference between the crack addict and the
yard guy that sticks with a job until he's making enough money to
hire a crew. Soon he's a productive small business owner.

Just food for thought

[Back]

Word.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
To me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medicationTo me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medicationTo me it seems like someone who is mentally ill would be more likely to start smoking pot at a younger age as a self medication

I copied it 3 times. Yes, yes, and yes. I am more inclined to agree with this line of thought regarding the research knowing how easily research studies can be used to support a particular line of thought or opinion.

[Chadj]

<<One study he cited was published last year in the Archives of General Psychiatry. It involved 600 pairs of same-sex twins, one of whom was dependent on marijuana and one of whom was not. The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.>>


What a fucking load of bullshit.

The only time I ever even thought about suicide was in 9th grade.. About two years before I even tried pot.

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Chadj]

[Apotheosis]

I agree that mentally ill people are more likely to try drugs. That study proves nothing, just another "spin" on "Reefer madness".

I can't imagine that any mind altering substance is good for anyone in their "formative" years (ritalin, anti-depressants) to name a few.

[Artha]

One study he cited was published last year in the Archives of General Psychiatry. It involved 600 pairs of same-sex twins, one of whom was dependent on marijuana and one of whom was not. The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The only time I ever even thought about suicide was in 9th grade.. About two years before I even tried pot.>>


It involved 600 pairs of same-sex twins, one of whom was dependent on marijuana and one of whom was not.

The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.

[Back]

Originally posted by Yswithe
I agree that mentally ill people are more likely to try drugs. That study proves nothing, just another "spin" on "Reefer madness".

I can't imagine that any mind altering substance is good for anyone in their "formative" years (ritalin, anti-depressants) to name a few.

Word on that. I knew a guy who took ritalin as a kid. He told me they gave it to him because he was hyperactive? The dude has twitches and he claims its from the drugs.

PS. I heard Reefer Madness was made into a play. I've never seen the movie, but I know the story. Hearst propaganda to up his paper.

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Backlash]

It's supposed to have paradoxical effects, figure that out :shrug:

[Back]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
It's supposed to have paradoxical effects, figure that out :shrug:

Yeah, great for any developing young boy or girl. Thats some mad science.

[Rutilcaper]

Where in the hell did they find 600 same-sex twins with one of the two dependent on weed? What are the odds?

I know a pair of 'em.

[Artha]

I know a pair of 'em.
Multiply this by 300 and you can be a scientist!

[ElanthianSiren]

I doubt it, highly. One of my best friends is heavy into pot and the happiest person you could ever meet on the planet. She was also one of the most popular people in highschool, so I don't believe a lot of the wive's tales about pot. As Jorddyn said, correlation is not causation.

-Melissa

ps. for the record, not a pot smoker, nor a drinker, nor a regular smoker of cigarettes (I enjoy a djarum special or sherman mint occasionally).

[Back]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I doubt it, highly. One of my best friends is heavy into pot and the happiest person you could ever meet on the planet. She was also one of the most popular people in highschool, so I don't believe a lot of the wive's tales about pot. As Jorddyn said, correlation is not causation.

-Melissa

ps. for the record, not a pot smoker, nor a drinker, nor a regular smoker of cigarettes (I enjoy a djarum special or sherman mint occasionally).

eww. Yep, thats all I had to say. God damn Djarum make me want to ralph. And I can smell you from a mile away.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I doubt it, highly. One of my best friends is heavy into pot and the happiest person you could ever meet on the planet. She was also one of the most popular people in highschool, so I don't believe a lot of the wive's tales about pot. As Jorddyn said, correlation is not causation.

-Melissa

ps. for the record, not a pot smoker, nor a drinker, nor a regular smoker of cigarettes (I enjoy a djarum special or sherman mint occasionally).

eww. Yep, thats all I had to say. God damn Djarum make me want to ralph. And I can smell you from a mile away.


awwww, so Backlash, does this mean you're withholding the love?! :lol:


-Melissa

[Back]

The :heart: is here baby. Just don’t light a Djarum near me. It could have bad results.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Backlash
The :heart: is here baby. Just don’t light a Djarum near me. It could have bad results.

woo woo! I swear off cloves and specialty cigarettes forever... or just when I come within a few hundred miles of DC :saint:

-Melissa

[Back]

Sherms are for dippers. Or chicks who want that silky smooth gold butt.

[Scott]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I doubt it, highly. One of my best friends is heavy into pot and the happiest person you could ever meet on the planet. She was also one of the most popular people in highschool, so I don't believe a lot of the wive's tales about pot. As Jorddyn said, correlation is not causation.

-Melissa

ps. for the record, not a pot smoker, nor a drinker, nor a regular smoker of cigarettes (I enjoy a djarum special or sherman mint occasionally).

There are exceptions. The study doesn't say "everyone who smokes pot is suicidal."

I'd say the study could be right. Pot does fuck with your head. However, would that effect a normal person? Absolutely not. Could it push someone who is crazy over the edge? Maybe, who knows. However I'd bet if you did this same study on someone who people who are regular drinkers, the increase would be higher with alcohol then weed.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Scott

There are exceptions. The study doesn't say "everyone who smokes pot is suicidal."

However I'd bet if you did this same study on people who are regular drinkers, the increase would be higher with alcohol then weed.

I only know one individual in my entire circle of friends who was suicidal and smoked weed. Maybe I am just a very blessed, lucky individual. That's very possible.

I will agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence however. IMO pot is less dangerous currently because it is illegal than many of the current legal drugs; I think a larger danger (which they highlight in this study oddly enough :?: ) is in our psychology, which has the tendency to see a "recreational drug" as safe.

I don't think any drug is safe. IMO It is more a question of how much are you willing to potentially sacrifice for the feeling this substance gives you?

-Melissa

[Doyle Hargraves]

And remember kids, these things can ONLY happen if you smoke marijuana, because we all know alcohol, cigarettes, adderol, ritalin, and even caffeine are much better for you and starting those at an early age will ensure that you live a long, healthy and successful life.

[Rutilcaper]

Originally posted by Artha
Multiply this by 300 and you can be a scientist!

But then I'd have a whole bunch of stoners telling me how pot is good for you and improves creativity and brain functions.

[Doyle Hargraves]

The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.

I would really like to know how they came to that conclusion.

Three times as LIKELY to THINK about suicide?

What did they do, ask each twin at the end of everyday of the study how many times they thought about suicide?

[Back]

Don’t do drugs like Doyle.

[Back]

Doyle tells the truth, kids. Listen up.

[Doyle Hargraves]

That's right little campers. If you follow my lead, maybe one day you'll own a construction company of your very own.

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

The twin who was dependent was almost three times as likely to think about suicide and attempt suicide than his brother or sister, the study found.

I would really like to know how they came to that conclusion.

Three times as LIKELY to THINK about suicide?

What did they do, ask each twin at the end of everyday of the study how many times they thought about suicide?

My guess would be, they took ID twins (300 of them supposedly) -- one who smokes pot and one who doesn't or won't admit it -- and asked them 'on average how often they thought about suicide?'

Trouble is, you don't know if that person who says "Umm, no... I never ever ever smoke the mari-ju-ana" was telling you the truth or lying -- people are notorious for lying on survey. Also, you don't know if the kid who says they smoke pot was lying -- unless both succumbed to a drug test to confirm yes or no, which they did not mention in the article.

I won't even get into how the "how often do you think about suicide" numbers could be skewed in this sampling, though it is interesting to note that this comes out right as popular opinion decries the war on drugs in Columbia as a waste of money and manpower.

-Melissa

[Doyle Hargraves]

Someone should do a general health and suicide tendency survey in Amsterdam. I'd think the residents over there are pretty happy. I'd sure like to see the results.

I wonder what the crime rate is like over there too.

[Parker]

Alright, I consider myself a relatively intelligent human being, but I will admit, I do smoke.

It hasn't affected my grades, I'm pretty well motivated (for an 18 year old kid) and I don't feel like killing myself.

Now, I don't think there's many here who can say they've NEVER tried it, and I'm not lying when I say I do it once a year. Each year, April Vacation...good times.

Now, tell me, anyone who has smoked weed and gotten drunk, seeing as how I don't drink heavily.

I look at the affects of weed on someone...they eat a lot, perhaps get philosophical.

Drunk people expel all they ate, and only get dumber.

I've seen both acts performed, and those are the results I've noticed.

Now, tell me how marijuana is worse for you than vodka?

I don't know, there's probably good reasons, but from my admittedly limited experience, I don't know them.

[ElanthianSiren]

IMO the danger of weed is more the attitude that it promotes under the influence; it is not the attitude that the U.S. wants to project -- even in its most inebriated citizens.

First, consider our two most-legal and abused recreational drugs: Alcohol and Nicotine

Alcohol initially acts as a stimulant and triggers aggressive behavior. It is only after it's metabolized that it becomes a depressant. The simple answer then becomes to drink more!!!

-Nictotine, also a stimulant.

This doesn't mean that I think pot is the coolest thing in the world. Shame on you Greg Parker for abusing such a smart brain! What it does mean is that I feel that the reason it is still illegal has everything to do with America's vanity and little to do with actual risks.

It's like the PM of Canada said when pressure was put on Canada to get tough on pot: basically he'd love to make marijuana criminal, but he just doesn't believe they currently have enough mass murderers to warrant that decision.

-Melissa

[Parker]

Woah...woah! Hey, who says I'm abusing my brain?

I think that it's more a case of me ENHANCING my ability to pass my philosophy class...

[Parker]

No, actually, in all honesty, when I smoke, my parents know about it, I'm in the basement of a friend's house whose parents also know about it...everyone knows, and they don't care because they understand my aversion to doing it in any setting that is dangerous.

I've tried it prior, in places where the circumstances were different, and I didn't enjoy it, because my logic was gone, and I was abnormally afraid of...everything.

I think that when handled properly, it's a find thing, as long as it's taken in moderation, just as anything else would need to be moderated, including alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

It's one helluva time, wen you're surrounded by people who you trust, and there's no paranoia needed.

[Edited on 5-8-2005 by Parker]

[ElanthianSiren]

Drugs, in general, destroy brain cells. I think they increase synapsis, but I'm not positive for all of them. The question is -- how many are you destroying and is it more than the average person your age? Is it enough to put you at a disadvantage? If you don't smoke, don't drink, and smoke a little pot once a month, I doubt it.

Anyway, you won't really hear me doing much scolding beyond mock scolding. I'm not big on telling people what to do, except when it comes to lying. I hate lying. :flamed: liars.

-Melissa

[Parker]

For me, it's usually a big binge, once a year, right around the typical time for most smokers...4/20 = my god.

But to be honest, I'm probably killing more braincells than most...I know I'm compressing my spine in football, must be killing my brani as well.

[ElanthianSiren]

Then it sounds like you will have some decisions to make now or in the future, mmm?

-Melissa

[Parker]

Perhaps, or perhaps not.
What if I kill so many I'm not capable of making the decision, hmmm?

:smug:

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Parker
Perhaps, or perhaps not.
What if I kill so many I'm not capable of making the decision, hmmm?

:smug:

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen, but in that case, someone will have to make it for you. I hope your parents share your political/social views. And he shall be named Gerg Ovaihcs.

-Melissa

[Parker]

Oh, is that my starwars name? I was interested to learn it.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Parker
Oh, is that my starwars name? I was interested to learn it.

No, it's Greg Schiavo, spelled backwards :)
You would have to do your star wars name because you need to know your mother's maiden name and the town you were born in; since I'm not a stalker, that we KNOW of, I don't have that information on you!

-Melissa

Drugs are for losers

[Snapp]

Originally posted by RangerD1
Drugs are for losers
Agreed

[Keller]

Drugs are for winners, too.

They are for everyone.

And because it was brought up... a brief history of the criminalization of marijuana......

1906 - Food and Drug Act: Prior to this act, which established the FDA, traveling salesmen were roaming about the countryside selling "elixers" of pain killers, mostly morphine. In 1905, the addiction rate was around 8%, spiking above 10% for white women.

Mexican Influence: This is where the stigma came from. There have been laws about marijuana since the 1600s (forced growing, for hemp-seed oil, etc). However, when a group of Mormon's returned from Mexico using the plant for it's narcotic properties, the state of Utah pushed the snowball, setting off a string of state laws that eventually led to the Marijuana Tax Act of ?1936?.

Jazz: "There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others." - Harry Anslinger (administer of the Bureau of Narcotics) 'nuff said.

Hearst - William Randolph Hearst, a newspaper man of extreme influence, had major beef with pot. First it was a mexican drug. Second it was a competitor to his own paper industry. Third he found that negative news about marijuana made newspapers sell like hot-cakes.

Anslinger, with the help of Hearst's yellow journalism, had pot illegal by the late 30s. We've not looked back yet.

As far as this study is found -- I'm skeptical. For the number of users the federal government has put a pathetic amount of money into the study of the drug. Until we have a decent amount of scientific data I'm hesitant to just believe a survey as science.

Disclaimer: Pot does significantly reduce motivation. It does not make you stupid. When you smoke pot and sit around watching TV you rot your brain. Pot allows you to accept the status-quo and not challenge yourself to reach your full potential. Anyone at this station in life will not get what they should out of themselves. There is no denying that.

[Delirium]

Disclaimer: Pot does significantly reduce motivation. It does not make you stupid. When you smoke pot and sit around watching TV you rot your brain. Pot allows you to accept the status-quo and not challenge yourself to reach your full potential. Anyone at this station in life will not get what they should out of themselves. There is no denying that.

Intresting, from my own use id have to agree. Also maybe thats where this study hiccups. I was nuts long before i tried marijuana but the acceptance of the status quo certainly doesnt help in the getting better. I agree with others tho that there are lots of things that shouldnt be abused when your mental health is on such a shaky balance. I wonder if they can find 300 twins, one an avid weed smoker and the other an alcoholic and see who thinks of suicide more. Sounds like a photo finish to me if i had to set the odds.

[Back]

From the general tone of the experienced users, it seems to me that the cannabis indulgent of the pair would be less motivated to carry out, what I consider, an unfathomable deed.

[Delirium]

It isnt the same to actually carry out an attempt as just the ideation of suicide. Its a distorted logic you get. Anyway i think the study is just seeing how much thoughts are there but isnt looking at the actual attempts. Unfathomable? In my depths it made not only sense but it seemed like the right unselfish thing to do. Now that im getting better i can see how it isnt, i guess everything is in the perspective of which you view it.

[Showal]

<<Trouble is, you don't know if that person who says "Umm, no... I never ever ever smoke the mari-ju-ana" was telling you the truth or lying -- people are notorious for lying on survey. Also, you don't know if the kid who says they smoke pot was lying -- unless both succumbed to a drug test to confirm yes or no, which they did not mention in the article. >>

The study is about twins, one dependent upon marijuana and the other not. Not for one to never smoke ever.

The study is stupid. Correlation is not causation, it's been said I know. They have a high n value so I bet you can say the study is statistically significant, but significant of what? - The study does not say with any convincing evidence what is significant about the study other than theres a relationship somewhere between mental health and marijuana dependency. A famous example is that in areas where ice cream consumption is higher, there are more drownings. Does this mean that ice cream causes people to drown or people who are going to drown are more likely to eat ice cream? No. Does it mean ice cream and swimming are more popular in areas where it's warm? More than likely.

The way they could prove causation is to do a long term study where they follow twins from a young age and determine their mental health periodically and then do it again blindly after one of the two becomes dependent. It'd take a lot longer and a lot more effort and they definitely wouldnt get as many subjects, but this study makes a lot of unfounded claims.

The article then makes a few references to some kids who were dependent on marijuana and did such and such. That doesn't overly impress me. I'm sure we all know of an example of someone smoking cigarettes for a long long long time and never developing cancer. Does that mean we'd go as far as to say cigarettes don't cause cancer? There's a lot more information out there to the contrary and, just the same, we'd be just as naive to base our idea of marijuana off this poorly run and overextended study. There's a lot of evidence going both ways for marijuana, none really convince me to either side and so I won't really say one way or another.

A long winded response. I just get annoyed when someone reads a study and tries to extend the meaning of the information to places it can't cover.

What I found most disturbing was this:

<<annually, the report said, and an estimated $4 billion is spent each year on marijuana offenders.>>

I also found disturbing that the study didnt point out that 8 or 9 percent of 18 year olds being mentally ill is pretty disturbing as well.

[xtc]

Pot is just another corporate product put out by companies to get us addicted at a young age to the products that can truly damage us, fast food.

Backlash I am surprised you missed this. The media is still liberal it is trying to save us from corporate hegemony. God damn McDonald's in league with the pot cartel to adle our brains and get us addicted to fast food.

FIGHT THE MCDONALD'S MEDELLIN CARTEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Showal]

No, pot is a drug put out by pfizer and glaxosmithkline and astrazeneca to make us mentally ill so we rely on prozac, lexapro, celexa, wellbutrin, and everything else.

[Showal]

That's the conspiracy

[Parker]

You're all just silly.

and...

:irule:

[ElanthianSiren]

Parker, I swear, you must be the biggest consumer of the happy drugs! He is the spy! -The plant!! I knew it all along. :P

My mom has smoked since she was 12 and is annoyingly healthy. We keep trying to get her to quit, but she illustrates Showal's point, as when she quits, she gains weight and has increased heart rate etc. On nicotine, her cholestorol is awesome, never had cancer, and her blood pressure is a little under normal etc.

My dad smoked from age 17 up. He developed chronic athsma and quit around 17 years ago. I think the effects of all drugs on an individual, are a manifestation of processes so complex within the body that a study like this can't even hope to generalize or define them for the masses. Anytime you use anything inconsistent with your routine/unnatural, you are putting yourself at risk. Again, how important is that risk to you and what precautions have you taken to minimize that risk? I think that's the question... for anything.


-Melissa

[Parker]

Me? Drugs? What? Who says I'd ever do such a thing?

I think it's probably a lot more common than these boards are letting on, but that's beside the point.

I'm not ashamed to say I do it. I'm an intelligent human being, and very capable of making the choice for myself.