Poll: Are you in favor of a pickpocketing flag?

[Mobius1]

Since someone decided to cheat and flood the online poll with votes, I figured I'd just create a poll here instead. Please disregard the other poll as it is meaningless.

[Archigeek]

Tacos.

Also, a pickpocketing flag is right near the top of the dumbest things they've ever proposed, though it would be suplanted by a PVP flag. Oh wait, we kind of sort of have that, on an individual level. Can we all just plant corn and harvest it now, repeatedly for 75 cents per seed toss? One of us will get lucky and grow rare popcorn that provides spells that don't count against divergence, the rest will be screwed out of 75 cents. Enjoy your stay here at the Gemstone Farm.

[Tgo01]

Also, a pickpocketing flag is right near the top of the dumbest things they've ever proposed

You know the GMs have come up with a horrible idea when Archigeek and I agree on something.

[Viekn]

Tacos.

In addition to Tacos, can we please get another option on all polls: "I don't give two shits, just let me go kill some rats."

[Mobius1]

In addition to Tacos, can we please get another option on all polls: "I don't give two shits, just let me go kill some rats."

Apparently you care enough to post.

[Gelston]

No taco option, poll is invalid. It also serves as "I don't care if there is a flag or not."


Apparently you care enough to post.

That wouldn't really mean he cares very much. It isn't hard or time consuming to post.

[Viekn]

Apparently you care enough to post.

:p:hitwithrock:

[PoBoy]

A pickpocket flag reminds me very much of a "politically correct" sort of thing.

If I leave my containers open, then I risk losing a gem or a few silver. If you stick your hand in one of my containers, you risk losing that hand to a jaw trap. Sounds like a fair trade to me. Not to mention, catching a thief in the act can be some really fun RP.

Would really prefer if they would expand the pickpocketing system. Let pickpockets steal a bit from NPC shops and gain some experience from it. Do not make it safe for them though. The NPC can call the law on you, except at Helga's. Helga just gets to beat you senseless if she catches you.

[Taernath]

Tacos.


In addition to Tacos


No taco option, poll is invalid.

^

[Ashlander]

As long as it stays with stealing gems and coin maybe even common magic items (think wands, small statues and the like) I don't see the need for a pickpocket flag. If they're thinking about adding the ability to pickpocket weapons or stuff like the x/day items from DR I'd be completely for a flag.

[SonoftheNorth]

In before "I Do NoT CoNsEnT!" crowd shows up. Close your bags?

[Tgo01]

Here's your opt out flag:

;e GameObj.inv.each{ |i| fput "close ##{i.id}"}

And your opt in flag:

;e GameObj.inv.each{ |i| fput "open ##{i.id}"}

[Archigeek]

As long as it stays with stealing gems and coin maybe even common magic items (think wands, small statues and the like) I don't see the need for a pickpocket flag. If they're thinking about adding the ability to pickpocket weapons or stuff like the x/day items from DR I'd be completely for a flag.

I don't think there's been any indication they're thinking about that. That would be really foolish.

[Teveriel]

Where's the "idgaf" option? Because idgaf. It's a weird hill to die on in either case.

[Renaden]

Don't much care either way, with the flag it's the same as me just closing my containers with the bonus points that it works while I'm drunk/high.

[Velfi]

^

^

[BLZrizz]

If an in-game means exists to prevent or mitigate the loss (especially of fungible items), rely on that, not nanny flags. What's next, NODEATH flags? NOHPLOSS flags? I don't consent to creatures "assaulting" me? I just want to wear outfits and RP, I want XP for that because "that's the way I want to play?"

It's about the essence of the game: trending towards open world or nanny care bare? It's about drawing lines and not giving in to the special snowflakes.

[Neveragain]

If there was an option to steal tacos, the chances of me ever playing again would increase by 1%.

The pickpocketing thing is small in comparison to how much they have already fucked shit up.

[Parkbandit]

Also, a pickpocketing flag is right near the top of the dumbest things they've ever proposed, though it would be suplanted by a PVP flag. Oh wait, we kind of sort of have that, on an individual level. Can we all just plant corn and harvest it now, repeatedly for 75 cents per seed toss? One of us will get lucky and grow rare popcorn that provides spells that don't count against divergence, the rest will be screwed out of 75 cents. Enjoy your stay here at the Gemstone Farm.

Gemstone has been shit for literally decades... I have no idea why anyone would pay to play a game like this.

This pickpocketing flag is just the rotten cherry on top of the shit sundae.

I hope they implement this, along with their woke "WE NEED TO RID THE GAME OF ANYTHING WE MISCONSTRUE AS RACIST OR SEXIST!" parade of retardation.

[Mobius1]

Of course the pro flag people will downplay this poll, but ultimately I am just sick of hearing claims over and over and over again, that the majority of players want this flag. At least a Poll is the closest thing to real data we can get on the matter.

[HouseofElves]

If an in-game means exists to prevent or mitigate the loss (especially of fungible items), rely on that, not nanny flags. What's next, NODEATH flags? NOHPLOSS flags? I don't consent to creatures "assaulting" me? I just want to wear outfits and RP, I want XP for that because "that's the way I want to play?"

It's about the essence of the game: trending towards open world or nanny care bare? It's about drawing lines and not giving in to the special snowflakes.

Some of us who valuable RP agree that this is the problem with the state of RP in Gemstone. Everyone is so protective of their time, their 20 year old characters that they have almost put an "I'm invincible" bubble around their RP. There is no room for conflict, no room for consequences and in my mind no room for creativity and growth. If nothing ever challenges your character how can they possibly overcome?

It's all very disappointing and uninteresting. This is coming from someone who likes to stand around in outfits and RP. But if that's all there ever is it's stagnant af.

[Mobius1]

Just an FYI, this is not an anonymous vote, and the voters can be seen by clicking the link over the vote count.

[Mobius1]

Some of us who valuable RP agree that this is the problem with the state of RP in Gemstone. Everyone is so protective of their time, their 20 year old characters that they have almost put an "I'm invincible" bubble around their RP. There is no room for conflict, no room for consequences and in my mind no room for creativity and growth. If nothing ever challenges your character how can they possibly overcome?

It's all very disappointing and uninteresting. This is coming from someone who likes to stand around in outfits and RP. But if that's all there ever is it's stagnant af.

Thanks for your post. It keeps getting stated that us thieves are just trying to selfishly hold on to our "griefing" system by advocating against this change, but I keep trying to point out that almost everyone against it aren't even thieves. Maybe 2 or 3 of us are?

I like your "invincibility bubble" comment. I touched on this same issue in post #35 of the Rogue services thread. I wish people would just get over their egos and stop stifling RP so much, as things are getting more and more stale because of it.

[Gizmo]

I'm still amazed at how many people continue to play personally.

[HouseofElves]

I'm still amazed at how many people continue to play personally.



It took the world shutting down for me to come back and now they got me hooked.

[entropy]

Just an FYI, this is not an anonymous vote, and the voters can be seen by clicking the link over the vote count.

https://i.imgur.com/bzK097z.png
https://i.imgur.com/QHsrmo4.gif

[Neovik1]

https://i.imgur.com/bzK097z.png
https://i.imgur.com/QHsrmo4.gif

See post in discord (if you can): https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/991036613821857802/995027020473962618

While we were discussing how these polls were invalid and that I could post multiple votes from 1 IP:
Neovik — Today at 2:02 PM
@Midgar - so looks like the poll allows you to vote with different accounts on the same IP. So disregard 1 vote to yes for me. looks like there is a security token too so not as bad as I thought

[Neovik1]

also: https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/991036613821857802/995027894017474560
Neovik — Today at 2:05 PM
@Midgar if you click on the number next to "Yes" and "No" you can actually see who voted which makes this some what viable assuming you can figure out which votes are real or not. I'm sure you could tell which ones seem phony too

[Gelston]

Votes on PC are based purely on PC account. You could go open a bunch of vote all you want.

[Neovik1]

Votes on PC are based purely on PC account. You could go open a bunch of vote all you want.

but you still can look at creation date like Midgar stated in discord. It would probably take a lot of work though to figure out. But that extra leg work to exclude bad data and posting the results from it would make this a lot more viable. I initially dismissed these polls on discord which drove the investigation above further.

[Gelston]

but you still can look at creation date like Midgar stated in discord. It would probably take a lot of work though to figure out. But that extra leg work to exclude bad data and posting the results from it would make this a lot more viable. I initially dismissed these polls on discord which drove the investigation above further.

That sounds like too much work for a poll that ultimately accomplishes and means nothing.

[Methais]

In addition to Tacos, can we please get another option on all polls: "I don't give two shits, just let me go kill some rats."

No because according to Discord there's an epidemic of rat hunters being griefed by 100x capped pickpockets preventing them from saving up enough rat pelts to buy that mithril broadsword they've had their eye on and then they'll quit GS when they realize they're missing some rat pelts and can't afford that broadsword after all.

[Methais]

Would really prefer if they would expand the pickpocketing system. Let pickpockets steal a bit from NPC shops and gain some experience from it. Do not make it safe for them though. The NPC can call the law on you, except at Helga's. Helga just gets to rape you if she catches you.

Fixed to add realism and true consequences.

[Methais]

If an in-game means exists to prevent or mitigate the loss (especially of fungible items), rely on that, not nanny flags. What's next, NODEATH flags? NOHPLOSS flags? I don't consent to creatures "assaulting" me? I just want to wear outfits and RP, I want XP for that because "that's the way I want to play?"

It's about the essence of the game: trending towards open world or nanny care bare? It's about drawing lines and not giving in to the special snowflakes.

They will eventually demand that the HEALME verb be available for free 24/7 in Prime so that after 20 years of dying they might finally make it to level 40.

[Methais]

Votes on PC are based purely on PC account. You could go open a bunch of vote all you want.

I don't think even macguyver would bother with all that.

[Methais]

I like how 2 of the "Yes" votes were from accounts created today just to vote in the poll with as if polls on here actually matter :lol:

Wait a minute...

ArrVeeDee...

https://c.tenor.com/-UGSqHyaCXkAAAAd/rvd-rob-van-dam.gif

https://c.tenor.com/Vi3X-lHrZMgAAAAC/tourettes-holy-shit.gif

[Neovik1]

They will eventually demand that the HEALME verb be available for free 24/7 in Prime so that after 20 years of dying they might finally make it to level 40.

Isn’t there an item that does this right now? If not cha ching cha ching for Simu! Hah…

[BLZrizz]

Definite evidence of groupthink from the GMs. First they propose a solution in search of a problem (Flag for almost no pickpocketing attempts). Then they all universally tout the flag as a great idea based purely on a hypothesis (increasing PvE PP benefits would drastically increase the rate of CvC PP events) that would easily be verifiable with data after the fact. They are also not willing to wait on that data after releasing the PvE changes before making a sea change like instituting a mechanics protection flag.

It's like they clapped each other on the back, high-fived about the awesome and insightful hypothesis and drove on without any dissenting voices or true discussion, also evidenced by the fact that they are caught by surprise at the fervor of the discussion about the dangerous precedent for a mechanics protection flag. Then on the discord them stating over and over to focus on the great changes and to basically stop talking about the flag as it would be "spitting into the wind".

[Mobius1]

As I said on Discord, this proposal is like offering me a nice cup of gourmet coffee except it has a turd nugget in it. Am I supposed to just drink the coffee and focus on the gourmet aspects and ignore the nasty turd that was dropped in?

[Neovik1]

As I said on Discord, this proposal is like offering me a nice cup of gourmet coffee except it has a turd nugget in it. Am I supposed to just drink the coffee and focus on the gourmet aspects and ignore the nasty turd that was dropped in?

But isn’t it already a turd? I mean from my testing it was extremely difficult to steal from anyone within town that was capped with 1x perception. I couldn’t find any crowds bigger than 8 people and didn’t think to test it at the Icemule trial last night.

When I say testing though this is an extremely small data set and nothing compared to the years of people that have used PP.

Most rooms when I did sense would give me better chances to dance with a roa’ter.

[Mobius1]

Oh, believe me, I definitely think the current anti pickpocketing systems are already overly harsh. All the more reason to not have a flag.

Also, just so people know I plan to review the votes and will call out ones that were done by newly created accounts. 2 of the Yes votes are such, so the true count is currently 2 less for Yes

[Neovik1]

I didn’t see the conversation earlier from ours on discord but this flag sounds like a done deal no matter what. It sounds like they will remove sancs as well. Why not fight for increased chances or other advantages instead of trying to change their minds on something they said they wouldn’t? Everyone is also opted out until they opt in. If you couldn’t really steal from them 90 percent of the time anyway won’t sanc removals balance out? Well probably still have very low chances of being successful still. But you could probably cast darkness in a sanc now and increase your chances?

[Mobius1]

The flag would be way more palatable to me if sancts didn't stop stealing. But we have no guarantees of that at this point. Until I see it in the proposal I will assume it's not actually happening.

But it still doesn't address the OOC issues I have with the flag.

[Neovik1]

Sanc removals and the ability to sense who has the flag on or not don’t sound too bad. I’m sure other suggestions could be made since you now are just interacting with people that accept that type of RP.

[Drew]

Have things changed so much that there needs to be a pickpocketing flag? Back when I played you could steal some silvers and gems and that was it. It was more a roleplaying thing than anything else, it certainly wasn't a way to get rich. And once your character got caught you had a lot of player run in-game consequences (lack of healing/raising, etc).

If they are proposing such a flag I have to imagine they've really expanded pickpocketing to the point where you can now steal valuable items like swords/shields from people's packs because if it was just the silvers/gems like it used to be that's basically a nothing.

[Tgo01]

Have things changed so much that there needs to be a pickpocketing flag? Back when I played you could steal some silvers and gems and that was it. It was more a roleplaying thing than anything else, it certainly wasn't a way to get rich. And once your character got caught you had a lot of player run in-game consequences (lack of healing/raising, etc).

If they are proposing such a flag I have to imagine they've really expanded pickpocketing to the point where you can now steal valuable items like swords/shields from people's packs because if it was just the silvers/gems like it used to be that's basically a nothing.

Nope, still just silvers and gems. But supposedly capped rogues are stalking people out in the field and stealing everything they own, despite a cooldown existing on pickpocketing.

Also no one can point these supposed thieves out, they just exist.

[Lavastene]

I didn’t see the conversation earlier from ours on discord but this flag sounds like a done deal no matter what.
Funny that was basically what I said last week but was ASSURED by the GMs involved that it wasn't a done deal.

[Neovik1]

Nope, still just silvers and gems. But supposedly capped rogues are stalking people out in the field and stealing everything they own, despite a cooldown existing on pickpocketing.

Also no one can point these supposed thieves out, they just exist.

They said that they might remove the cooldown now too.

[Gelston]

Nope, still just silvers and gems. But supposedly capped rogues are stalking people out in the field and stealing everything they own, despite a cooldown existing on pickpocketing.

Also no one can point these supposed thieves out, they just exist.

I used to do that, except I was like level 40 and it was GS3.

[Taernath]

And once your character got caught you had a lot of player run in-game consequences (lack of healing/raising, etc).

Empaths and clerics refusing their services hasn't been a thing for 20ish years. I mean, some might, but there are another half dozen sitting in TSC who don't really care.

[Slark]

Of course the pro flag people will downplay this poll, but ultimately I am just sick of hearing claims over and over and over again, that the majority of players want this flag. At least a Poll is the closest thing to real data we can get on the matter.

The problem with polls like this is they only ask people which side they fall on - not how much they care. I voted "no flag," but if 0 is "I </3 flag" and 100 is "I <3 flag," I'm somewhere in the 45-49 range. Next time do the ol' 1-5 strongly agree/agree/neither agree nor disagree/disagree/strongly disagree scale for the good dataz!

[Gelston]

The problem with polls like this is they only ask people which side they fall on - not how much they care. I voted "no flag," but if 0 is "I </3 flag" and 100 is "I <3 flag," I'm somewhere in the 45-49 range. Next time do the ol' 1-5 strongly agree/agree/neither agree nor disagree/disagree/strongly disagree scale for the good dataz!

That is why I'm not voting. I don't care one way or another.

[Fortybox]

Nope, still just silvers and gems. But supposedly capped rogues are stalking people out in the field and stealing everything they own, despite a cooldown existing on pickpocketing.

Also no one can point these supposed thieves out, they just exist.

And according to Naijin the verb is hardly being used. BUT IT'S A PROBLEM - people are being raped in the streets of Elanthia!!!111one

[Methais]

Have things changed so much that there needs to be a pickpocketing flag? Back when I played you could steal some silvers and gems and that was it. It was more a roleplaying thing than anything else, it certainly wasn't a way to get rich. And once your character got caught you had a lot of player run in-game consequences (lack of healing/raising, etc).

If they are proposing such a flag I have to imagine they've really expanded pickpocketing to the point where you can now steal valuable items like swords/shields from people's packs because if it was just the silvers/gems like it used to be that's basically a nothing.

Ever since Simu made Discord their main communication tool and turned it into an echo chamber, the game has taken a tremendous shit, and the diarrhea gets more explosive each day, and this is where we are now because there are too many mentally ill people both playing and running this game.

Check out the Divergence thread if you really wanna vomit.

[Mobius1]

I love how they are either trying to diminish this poll on Discord because it's a PC poll, or they are trying to spin it and say that if the majority are against it, that means most people will still be unflagged.

[Methais]

I love how they are either trying to diminish this poll on Discord because it's a PC poll, or they are trying to spin it and say that if the majority are against it, that means most people will still be unflagged.

Have any quotes? I'm too lazy to dig through all that bullshit, but it's always funny watching these idiots cry and twist shit around to suit their agenda.

[Neovik1]

Have any quotes? I'm too lazy to dig through all that bullshit, but it's always funny watching these idiots cry and twist shit around to suit their agenda.

I think I diminished it. More like pointed out and agree that the verb is useless and needs buffs:

Neovik — Yesterday at 9:53 AM
according to the poll though 18 vs 33, most of the population (�� ) are against the flag so that would mean they will keep it off right? why not let the small population of the game opt out of a possible CvC encounter that they don't want? I mean if I'm going to PP someone (which I won't) I don't want to do it to someone that is going to get upset and go OOC on me
sanc removal against "most of the population" against the flag will mean it's going to get a huge boost
out of curiosity how long is the existing cooldown?


Neovik — Yesterday at 9:59 AM
I think depending on what else changes will decide if it's better but I'm not ultimately sure. but right now it seems like it is really a useless verb if it's not really being used. Seems like any change towards it may actually make it better? I mean it has attention now. The flag is here to stay so why not think of ideas to make PP much better than it was for people that want to take part of that system?
I definitely get the points on both sides though.


Neovik — Yesterday at 10:03 AM
but from my perspective it's been in bad shape for awhile now and really goes against the thief more than the victim unless your mark is significantly lower level then you... but at that point it's griefing defenseless people and kind of a put off to a new player (if they exists or may one day exists �� )


Neovik — Yesterday at 10:08 AM
being in a room with 75+ people with average lighting. I would of expected a different "sense" message favoring a PP attempt
for max PP

[Neovik1]

but again as I pointed out in chat. I don't run around with max pick pocketing enhancives so maybe someone like Midgar gets different reads and success rates. I don't have any data on that.

[Neovik1]

Starting to do some testing with my enhancives on that impact PP:
Dexterity (DEX): 134 (37) ... 163 (51)
Discipline (DIS): 112 (31) ... 115 (32)
Pickpocketing......................| 305 205

Definitely don't have the PP enhancives but some of the stats and skills. So I'll see where I land with this approach.

[Gelston]

I don't think anyone really needs to "diminish" a PC poll. No one has ever cared about them.

[Mobius1]

I never bother with reads. If they don't have a lot of pickpocketing ranks you shouldn't get caught unless you push your luck. Traps are the worst problem because you essentially get caught even if you weren't caught.

[Neovik1]

I never bother with reads. If they don't have a lot of pickpocketing ranks you shouldn't get caught unless you push your luck. Traps are the worst problem because you essentially get caught even if you weren't caught.

So sense is pretty useless? didn't know that. I was checking room conditions with "LM Sense" too. I pick pocketed my alts in some of the rooms but they actually seen me do it (I was still successful and didn't get any indicators that they noticed me do it but they did). They are also 2-4x capped though with 1x perception.

I did not try with my enhancives on though, only what I have through ascension.

[Mobius1]

I don't think anyone really needs to "diminish" a PC poll. No one has ever cared about them.

PC or not, the vote being 18 to 35 (as of this post) is pretty significant IMO. It was literally being stated over and over again that the majority want this change, but I didn't think that was the case so I created a poll. I think this shows that it's just a loud minority trying to get their way.

I think it was said best earlier in this thread - Players want their "invincibility bubble." Melivn, for example, said that his character is 1500 years old (or whatever), and therefore should be able to easily catch a pickpocket. Basically, I get the impression with a lot of these people, that they think their "all powerful" characters should be above stuff like this. I think the whole griefing aspect is mostly just a smokescreen for their true motive, which is to have one more thing unable to breach their invincibility bubble. I say, if your character is 1500 years old, he should be wise enough to know to close his bags!

TLDR: I think this is mostly an ego thing, and not actually about griefing. The loudest voices in favor of this flag are people who are not being griefed by pickpockets.

[Mobius1]

So sense is pretty useless? didn't know that. I was checking room conditions with "LM Sense" too. I pick pocketed my alts in some of the rooms but they actually seen me do it (I was still successful and didn't get any indicators that they noticed me do it but they did). They are also 2-4x capped though with 1x perception.

I did not try with my enhancives on though, only what I have through ascension.

It's not useless, as it does show you the conditions for that room. But if you are 2x pickpocketing and they are only 1x perception, you should be able to easily steal from them without getting caught, even if you are alone with them, in my experience. Only if you are stealing multiple times, as each attempt increases your chances of being caught.

Also, in case you didn't know, pickpocketing skill has the most weight in seeing a thief. MUCH more so than perception.

[Neovik1]

I must have some real shit luck:

>hide
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>steal rep
You reach into #####'s spidersilk backpack and pull out an aquamarine wand.
You do not believe anyone noticed you slip out of hiding.
##### notices your actions and turns suddenly, grasping at your wrist! You are startled enough to release the wand!


You reach into ####'s pockets and pull out nothing.
You do not believe anyone noticed you slip out of hiding.
#### notices your actions and turns suddenly, grasping at your wrist!!

[Mobius1]

Well, all the more reason this flag is not needed. Pickpocketing is already hard as hell to be successful at as it is.

[Neovik1]

which is why they are improving it and adding the flag. It's not being used now. If adding the flag includes a revamp of it, I'd think this is a happy medium? There should be a push for more advantages and bonuses to make it more viable. You would know more than anyone else what other changes would balance this out? Why not fight for that?

[Methais]

I don't think anyone really needs to "diminish" a PC poll. No one has ever cared about them when they don't have tacos as an option.

Fixed.

[Gelston]

PC or not, the vote being 18 to 35 (as of this post) is pretty significant IMO. It was literally being stated over and over again that the majority want this change, but I didn't think that was the case so I created a poll. I think this shows that it's just a loud minority trying to get their way.

I think it was said best earlier in this thread - Players want their "invincibility bubble." Melivn, for example, said that his character is 1500 years old (or whatever), and therefore should be able to easily catch a pickpocket. Basically, I get the impression with a lot of these people, that they think their "all powerful" characters should be above stuff like this. I think the whole griefing aspect is mostly just a smokescreen for their true motive, which is to have one more thing unable to breach their invincibility bubble. I say, if your character is 1500 years old, he should be wise enough to know to close his bags!

TLDR: I think this is mostly an ego thing, and not actually about griefing. The loudest voices in favor of this flag are people who are not being griefed by pickpockets.

It isn't significant though. Simu really couldn't care less about a poll on the PC Forum and 17 people isn't a large amount either way. The poll also doesn't include a middle ground, which almost ever scientific poll does.

[Teveriel]

It isn't significant though. Simu really couldn't care less about a poll on the PC Forum and 17 people isn't a large amount either way. The poll also doesn't include a middle ground, which almost ever scientific poll does.

This. Especially the latter part, which makes it seem skewed for a desired result. Whether that was the intent or not.

[Methais]

It isn't significant though. Simu really couldn't care less about a poll on the PC Forum and 17 people isn't a large amount either way. The poll also doesn't include a middle ground, which almost ever scientific poll does.

The middle ground should be "The pickpocketing flag only works if there's a level gap of more than 10 levels between the thief and the mark." so then the Discord sycophants will shit their pants as they can no longer use the "THERE ARE CAPPED ROGUES CLEANING OUT LOW LEVEL NOOBS WHO CAN'T FIGHT BACK" bullshit argument that they probably made up.

[onurb]

If they allow you to steal big items, like super valuable stuff, then I would say players should be able to opt out of that. If its small stuff, wands, statues, jewelry, etc, then that should be ok. But I also think they should have a seperate town that is PVP enabled where everyone is suject to any type of pickingpocketing or player vs player combat. But they should be very clear when you are entering this zone. Like you get a message that says "You are leaving safe zone" or "You are entering a safe zone". I would also merge shattered back into prime. I like the concept of shattered it's just too many people have already invested far too much time and money into their characters to switch. Not enough people over there, so why not give them a place over here, like this town I mentioned. Anyways, I am way off topic now. peace!

[Mobius1]

which is why they are improving it and adding the flag. It's not being used now. If adding the flag includes a revamp of it, I'd think this is a happy medium? There should be a push for more advantages and bonuses to make it more viable. You would know more than anyone else what other changes would balance this out? Why not fight for that?

If you could steal in sancts, and had some other things relaxed, the flag wouldn't be such a heavy hit. But there have been no promises made on that front, aside from a comment by Naijin which isn't enough to go on. But even then, I still see many issues with the flag, which I have mostly explained in the other thread (Such as the OOC nature of it.).

I absolutely think things should be changed if they introduce the flag, but can I really count on Simu bothering? I'll believe it when I see it added to the proposal.

[Mobius1]

The middle ground should be "The pickpocketing flag only works if there's a level gap of more than 10 levels between the thief and the mark." so then the Discord sycophants will shit their pants as they can no longer use the "THERE ARE CAPPED ROGUES CLEANING OUT LOW LEVEL NOOBS WHO CAN'T FIGHT BACK" bullshit argument that they probably made up.

When I pull clear zircons and star diopsides from someone (The kinds of gems a level 10 character will have), I stop bothering to steal from them. I also did them a favor, cleaning junk out of their bags for them! If someone feels "griefed" over this, they should learn to suck it up like a sane adult, or play a different game; not change the game to conform to their views. I've been told by many that I should quit if I don't like that flag, but I feel I have more right to say it to them, if anything, as pickpocketing has ALWAYS been a part of this game.

I'm not sure if the My Little Pony MMO is still around, but I'm sure you could find something similar if you don't like the more raw, open RP sandbox that this game provides. Don't agree with this statement? Then stop telling me I should find another game that has the aspects I play this game for, which always have been a part of it.

[Neovik1]

If you could steal in sancts, and had some other things relaxed, the flag wouldn't be such a heavy hit. But there have been no promises made on that front, aside from a comment by Naijin which isn't enough to go on. But even then, I still see many issues with the flag, which I have mostly explained in the other thread (Such as the OOC nature of it.).

I absolutely think things should be changed if they introduce the flag, but can I really count on Simu bothering? I'll believe it when I see it added to the proposal.

I completely agree. They should probably put all this into the proposal to make it official instead of all of the random messages that you have to hunt down in the thread. There are other things they need to do like sense being able to detect people who have the flag on or not and stuff like that.

[Methais]

When I pull clear zircons and star diopsides from someone (The kinds of gems a level 10 character will have), I stop bothering to steal from them. I also did them a favor, cleaning junk out of their bags for them! If someone feels "griefed" over this, they should learn to suck it up like a sane adult, or play a different game; not change the game to conform to their views. I've been told by many that I should quit if I don't like that flag, but I feel I have more right to say it to them, if anything, as pickpocketing has ALWAYS been a part of this game.

I'm not sure if the My Little Pony MMO is still around, but I'm sure you could find something similar if you don't like the more raw, open RP sandbox that this game provides. Don't agree with this statement? Then stop telling me I should find another game that has the aspects I play this game for, which always have been a part of it.

I'm more interested in just seeing the Discord reaction to a middle ground solution that eradicates their made up griefing pandemic argument, because whoever is making that claim is full of shit.

[Mobius1]

I'm more interested in just seeing the Discord reaction to a middle ground solution that eradicates their made up griefing pandemic argument, because whoever is making that claim is full of shit.

A lot of people are open to middle ground solutions. The problem is that many of the most vocal people would like to see CvC pickpocketing removed completely, so in their minds this IS the compromise, and anything less is unacceptable.

Currently though, Naos is busy doubling down on calling those opposed to the flag "trolls," so it's hard to have any decent discussion there whatsoever.