POLICY 18 and POLICY 19 Updated per Wyrom

[peam]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/4099

We are in the process of updating the entire POLICY command in game, but two POLICY updates are live effectively immediately.

POLICY 18 has some minor updates about botting. The big change is that all the penalties have moved out of POLICY 18 and into POLICY 19, which was severely out of date. The key takeaway is that we are retiring the three strike rule to a lockout and we are introducing a new form of penalty with more manageable consequences (such as removing the lifetime bans on certain activities like the Adv. Guild). If you're running multiple accounts, the penalties stack. If you're caught up with a group that aren't your accounts but you're all AFK scripting, the penalties stack. Lastly these updates have no impact on previous penalties and nothing is retroactive.

I have pasted POLICY 19 below.

GemStone IV Player Policy: Violations of Policy

Anyone found to be in violation of the GemStone IV POLICY or Simutronics Terms and Conditions, at the sole discretion of Simutronics, may be warned or removed from the game. Please keep in mind that GameMasters may not rely on a player's word alone when handling possible POLICY violations, however a player's history may be taken into account on any given violation decision.

This list is used as a general guideline by GameMasters in determining steps to take. The actual decision will vary based upon the severity of the decision and the history of violations on any accounts connected to a player's account.

First Offense: Players who receive their first warning will undergo a period of 24 hours where they cannot gain any new experience, silver, treasure, Adventurer's Guild tasks, or work the locksmith pool. This will be referred to as a timeout period. Additional areas will be added in a future update.

Subsequent Offenses: Every offense afterward will start a 72 hour timeout period like the first offense. If another warning occurs within 30 days of the last one, the timeout period will increase to 7 days. If another happens within 30 days of the last one at this point, it will result in a 30 day timeout period. Continuing this pattern, it will increase to 60 days and 90 days. In addition to the timeout period, a fine in the town they were performing the POLICY violation will be applied in the amount of how much silver they generated in that day. In cases where it straddles multiple days, a multiple day assessment fine will be applied.

Free Account Offenses: If an account is using our free to play (F2P) subscription or is on a promotion that gives them free game time, it may result in an immediate F2P lockout or a loss of the promotional free time.

Lockouts: Lockouts will be reserved for extreme violations of our POLICY, but the timeout period will be the primary penalty moving forward.


Wyrom, PM

This message was originally posted in Help for Players, Policy Discussions. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/210/2230/view/650






Discuss

[Tgo01]

So....these new penalties are kind of weird. If you're caught afk scripting you can still play the game, you just can't earn experience or treasure or anything like that for 24 hours.

After the first warning it's only 72 hours unless the next warning occurs within 30 days of the previous one, in which case it's 7 days.

The penalties don't seem as harsh now. Is this going to encourage more afk scripting?

[Taernath]

If you're caught up with a group that aren't your accounts but you're all AFK scripting, the penalties stack.

So if you're in a group of 10 afk scripters you get 10 warnings?

https://i.imgur.com/oaKy1JA.png

[SonoftheNorth]

So....these new penalties are kind of weird. If you're caught afk scripting you can still play the game, you just can't earn experience or treasure or anything like that for 24 hours.




Yeah it's so they can continue to bill you. All the scripting bans lately are probably costing them revenue.

[Tgo01]

Yeah it's so they can continue to bill you. All the scripting bans lately are probably costing them revenue.

Very true. These new penalties do seem geared toward keeping people playing, even after receiving multiple warnings.

[SonoftheNorth]

Very true. These new penalties do seem geared toward keeping people playing, even after receiving multiple warnings.

They don't want warclaidh missing duskruin.

[Rjex]

I don't get the group penalties thing. So if I'm in a war camp or something with 7 other people and we all afk, we all get 8 warnings?

[BLZrizz]

So....these new penalties are kind of weird. If you're caught afk scripting you can still play the game, you just can't earn experience or treasure or anything like that for 24 hours.

After the first warning it's only 72 hours unless the next warning occurs within 30 days of the previous one, in which case it's 7 days.

The penalties don't seem as harsh now. Is this going to encourage more afk scripting?

If it's essentially turning the time penalties into "in game time" it's worse, in a sense, as you basically have to keep the subscription active in order to work the penalty off. I think before you could just unsubscribe and wait the time out.

[Tgo01]

I don't get the group penalties thing. So if I'm in a war camp or something with 7 other people and we all afk, we all get 8 warnings?

That's certainly what it sounds like.


If it's essentially turning the time penalties into "in game time" it's worse, in a sense, as you basically have to keep the subscription active in order to work the penalty off. I think before you could just unsubscribe and wait the time out.

Wait is that true? Because that almost sounds illegal, or at least it should be if not.

[BLZrizz]

That's certainly what it sounds like.

Wait is that true? Because that almost sounds illegal, or at least it should be if not.

Why? You're still free to unsub and quit the game. Otherwise it's their IP, and you agree to their T&C every time you log in. In some ways it's better because you can at least sell off your items, whereas before it was a total lockout.

I mean if they really wanted it to hurt they would also make all your items character bound until the penalty is worked off for example. But they didn't go this far.

I think this is better for the game overall though. People AFK script to gain benefits, and cutting people off from those benefits is a more apt punishment than excluding them from the community. I do think anyone caught special event scripting should receive one warning and then a complete ban from that event.

[SonoftheNorth]

I don't get the group penalties thing. So if I'm in a war camp or something with 7 other people and we all afk, we all get 8 warnings?

They were already doing this for the past couple years.

[Tgo01]

Why? You're still free to unsub and quit the game. Otherwise it's their IP, and you agree to their T&C every time you log in. In some ways it's better because you can at least sell off your items, whereas before it was a total lockout.

I mean if they really wanted it to hurt they would also make all your items character bound until the penalty is worked off for example. But they didn't go this far.

I think this is better for the game overall though. People AFK script to gain benefits, and cutting people off from those benefits is a more apt punishment than excluding them from the community. I do think anyone caught special event scripting should receive one warning and then a complete ban from that event.

It just seems wrong to force someone to pay for half a service if they want to someday use the full service.

[Taernath]

It just seems wrong to force someone to pay for half a service if they want to someday use the full service.

If the alternative is a lifetime ban it sounds like a better deal, assuming you want to keep playing. I don't see anything that suggests you have to spend that time in-game.

[Rjex]

They were already doing this for the past couple years.

I never knew that. Like I knew they stacked if you owned all accounts and they all got busted, but getting warnings for other people....

[Realk]

If the alternative is a lifetime ban it sounds like a better deal, assuming you want to keep playing. I don't see anything that suggests you have to spend that time in-game.

In game probably not.. Just keep a sub active if that's not what they are going for than it defeats the purpose of just not continuing their traditional lockout.

[Realk]

I can see them saying well we lowered the penalty, so more script checks. Nelemar watch out.

[Nephelem]

I'm good with it. It lessens the penalties for the one-off infraction, but builds quickly for the crackheads that can't lay off it. Fully expect more checks and enforcement with this set of rules.

[BLZrizz]

Wyrom clarified on the officials: "Another question I saw mentioned was "is the timer in-game time?" The time is real world time, not in-game time. So if you hit a 30 day timeout and want to cancel for 30 days, you can."

Kinda defeats the purpose. I'd expected something like Death's Sting, where you have to work off the penalty. More teeth and someone can't just get off the hook by canceling their account and just taking a GS vacation like folks normally do.

[Maerit]

The pro to this is that I believe you can still attend events, merchant, and what have you while being unable to "progress".

I wonder if you can work on artisan / guild stuff. The things that almost never amount to any actual character progress and are super tedious which people put off because they'd rather be gaining XP and treasure.

[Mobius1]

I like this and I don't like this. I worry it's largely reliant on them doing frequent script checks that would bust someone more than once a month. if script checks are not so frequent, then I could see people afk scripting as they have much less to lose when they finally do get caught, especially if it's rarely enough they go a month in between getting caught.

[Viekn]

I like this and I don't like this. I worry it's largely reliant on them doing frequent script checks that would bust someone more than once a month. if script checks are not so frequent, then I could see people afk scripting as they have much less to lose when they finally do get caught, especially if it's rarely enough they go a month in between getting caught.

I could be entirely wrong, but I don't see this change as increasing the frequency of script checks. I see this change as a marketing/revenue stream enhancement. At some point, a player decides to subscribe. That's hard enough to get someone to do. Once they are subscribed, it's easier to keep them that way. If you lock someone out of the game entirely, it's easy for them to just unsubscribe for that lockout period. They then have to decide to resubscribe, and from a marketing standpoint, you'd rather they not unsubscribe in the first place, but you really don't want them to have to then make that decision all over again to resubscribe. The more reasons you give people to want to continue interacting with other people or systems inside the game, the less likely they are to unsubscribe during their "timeout" period. However, if you suddenly increase script checks in order to catch people being afk more than once a month, then you've gone back to the old risk model of people just unsubscribing because they got pissed off, even if they were allowed to login and interact, albeit in a limited way. I see how the penalty being less than it was has the potential to drive frequency of script checks so you make sure people aren't just taking advantage of the lesser penalty, but if you made the change in the first place to hold on to revenue, then you have to strike the right balance with your enforcement.

[Xcalibur1]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/4099

We are in the process of updating the entire POLICY command in game, but two POLICY updates are live effectively immediately.

POLICY 18 has some minor updates about botting. The big change is that all the penalties have moved out of POLICY 18 and into POLICY 19, which was severely out of date. The key takeaway is that we are retiring the three strike rule to a lockout and we are introducing a new form of penalty with more manageable consequences (such as removing the lifetime bans on certain activities like the Adv. Guild). If you're running multiple accounts, the penalties stack. If you're caught up with a group that aren't your accounts but you're all AFK scripting, the penalties stack. Lastly these updates have no impact on previous penalties and nothing is retroactive.

I have pasted POLICY 19 below.

GemStone IV Player Policy: Violations of Policy

Anyone found to be in violation of the GemStone IV POLICY or Simutronics Terms and Conditions, at the sole discretion of Simutronics, may be warned or removed from the game. Please keep in mind that GameMasters may not rely on a player's word alone when handling possible POLICY violations, however a player's history may be taken into account on any given violation decision.

This list is used as a general guideline by GameMasters in determining steps to take. The actual decision will vary based upon the severity of the decision and the history of violations on any accounts connected to a player's account.

First Offense: Players who receive their first warning will undergo a period of 24 hours where they cannot gain any new experience, silver, treasure, Adventurer's Guild tasks, or work the locksmith pool. This will be referred to as a timeout period. Additional areas will be added in a future update.

Subsequent Offenses: Every offense afterward will start a 72 hour timeout period like the first offense. If another warning occurs within 30 days of the last one, the timeout period will increase to 7 days. If another happens within 30 days of the last one at this point, it will result in a 30 day timeout period. Continuing this pattern, it will increase to 60 days and 90 days. In addition to the timeout period, a fine in the town they were performing the POLICY violation will be applied in the amount of how much silver they generated in that day. In cases where it straddles multiple days, a multiple day assessment fine will be applied.

Free Account Offenses: If an account is using our free to play (F2P) subscription or is on a promotion that gives them free game time, it may result in an immediate F2P lockout or a loss of the promotional free time.

Lockouts: Lockouts will be reserved for extreme violations of our POLICY, but the timeout period will be the primary penalty moving forward.


Wyrom, PM

This message was originally posted in Help for Players, Policy Discussions. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/210/2230/view/650






Discuss

So, you could take your accounts and script without supervision on paid events. They'll catch you, you won't gain any exp or silvers but you'll still gain alternate currencies.

Welcome to abuse land. Warclaidh & Zaoloo, please, come back, we need your money.

Simu

[Methais]

So....these new penalties are kind of weird. If you're caught afk scripting you can still play the game, you just can't earn experience or treasure or anything like that for 24 hours.

After the first warning it's only 72 hours unless the next warning occurs within 30 days of the previous one, in which case it's 7 days.

The penalties don't seem as harsh now. Is this going to encourage more afk scripting?

I don't see it encouraging more afk scripting so much as it discourages Simu from making their already small player base even smaller and eventually banning themselves into oblivion.



It just seems wrong to force someone to pay for half a service if they want to someday use the full service.

People can still cyber during their timeout period.

[Gelston]

I like this change.

[Rjex]

I don't see it encouraging more afk scripting so much as it discourages Simu from making their already small player base even smaller and eventually banning themselves into oblivion.


This. There'd be nobody left playing GS eventually under the old system.

[nocturnix]

So....these new penalties are kind of weird. If you're caught afk scripting you can still play the game, you just can't earn experience or treasure or anything like that for 24 hours.

After the first warning it's only 72 hours unless the next warning occurs within 30 days of the previous one, in which case it's 7 days.

The penalties don't seem as harsh now. Is this going to encourage more afk scripting?

I dont think so. The point of AFK scripting (except some rare cases like forging, guild progression, etc.) are to gain loot or exp. If you get locked out of both, what is the point to script too much? You no longer gain anything at all. IMO this is a good change and makes more sense from the company perspective. Why ban people for life from paying for a game? Not sure h ow this works with f2p vs. subscriber tho, that would be interesting as well.

[Gelston]

I dont think so. The point of AFK scripting (except some rare cases like forging, guild progression, etc.) are to gain loot or exp. If you get locked out of both, what is the point to script too much? You no longer gain anything at all. IMO this is a good change and makes more sense from the company perspective. Why ban people for life from paying for a game? Not sure h ow this works with f2p vs. subscriber tho, that would be interesting as well.

Looks like F2Ps basically operate under the older system of getting locked out.

[Mobius1]

I dont think so. The point of AFK scripting (except some rare cases like forging, guild progression, etc.) are to gain loot or exp. If you get locked out of both, what is the point to script too much? You no longer gain anything at all. IMO this is a good change and makes more sense from the company perspective. Why ban people for life from paying for a game? Not sure h ow this works with f2p vs. subscriber tho, that would be interesting as well.

I'd say the main point of AFK scripting is to make gains without doing any work. With less of a penalty for it, I assume more people will do it now than ever before, which is my biggest worry with this change. Also, as I said before, someone would have to be caught twice in one month to get the heavier penalty, and is that really going to happen often?

I guess if someone is habitually caught scripting they will check the crap out of them?

[Gelston]

I'd say the main point of AFK scripting is to make gains without doing any work. With less of a penalty for it, I assume more people will do it now than ever before, which is my biggest worry with this change. Also, as I said before, someone would have to be caught twice in one month to get the heavier penalty, and is that really going to happen often?

I guess if someone is habitually caught scripting they will check the crap out of them?

People that are hugely into AFK scripting generally only cares about those gains. They spend money on items to get those gains faster. It is very much a deterrent and a way smarter idea.

[Methais]

I bet Itzel is depressed now.

[Mobius1]

People that are hugely into AFK scripting generally only cares about those gains. They spend money on items to get those gains faster. It is very much a deterrent and a way smarter idea.

Ultimately it changes nothing for them, as those people were afk scripting when the punishment was worse. Now I assume it will embolden others to do it as the penalty is less harsh.

Also, getting cut off for a day is not harsh compared to all the gains from it. Only the heavier penalty is very significant.

[Gelston]

Ultimately it changes nothing for them, as those people were afk scripting when the punishment was worse. Now I assume it will embolden others to do it as the penalty is less harsh.

Also, getting cut off for a day is not harsh compared to all the gains from it. Only the heavier penalty is very significant.

Tell me you didn't read the punishments without telling me you didn't read the punishments.

"Subsequent Offenses: Every offense afterward will start a 72 hour timeout period like the first offense. If another warning occurs within 30 days of the last one, the timeout period will increase to 7 days. If another happens within 30 days of the last one at this point, it will result in a 30 day timeout period. Continuing this pattern, it will increase to 60 days and 90 days. In addition to the timeout period, a fine in the town they were performing the POLICY violation will be applied in the amount of how much silver they generated in that day. In cases where it straddles multiple days, a multiple day assessment fine will be applied."

If they are heavy into AFK scripting, but stop AFK scripting after the first punishment then the policy worked. If they don't quit, then it eventually goes to 90 day timeouts.

Lockouts still exist too, but they are only using them for highly disruptive stuff, probably for running breakgs.cmd

[Tgo01]

If they are heavy into AFK scripting, but stop AFK scripting after the first punishment then the policy worked. If they don't quit, then it eventually goes to 90 day timeouts.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how this works though, you could theoretically afk script, get caught, get your 72 hour timeout, then boy a good boy/girl for 30 days, then afk script again and if you're caught you just get another 72 hour timeout.

So really if you can afk script so much that if you're caught you're ahead of the game even with a 72 hour timeout, then you just need to wait 30 days and start all over again and only receive the 72 hour timeout again.

Some people supposedly afk script for months before they are caught.

[Mobius1]

I don't know about you, but permanent bans sound worse to me.

You have to be caught multiple times per month for a severe penalty, and can simply wait out the 30 day timer to reset.

Hell, I could see people afk scripting at the beginning of each 30 days and going until they finally get caught. This whole system is dependent on them doing a ton of script checks, and can they really do it?

I literally just need to get away with like 1 day of afk scripting and the first lockout was worth the XP gains I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I could then justify the second lockout if I went 3 days without getting caught. You don't see the problem with it? To get the 30 day lockout you need to be caught 4 freaking times in one month. Do they really have the resources to be doing that many script checks? If they did, then sure, I'm fine with the policy change. But if it's anything like it is now, you can easily go some time without getting caught!

[Gelston]

I don't know about you, but permanent bans sound worse to me.

You have to be caught multiple times per month for a severe penalty, and can simply wait out the 30 day timer to reset.

Hell, I could see people afk scripting at the beginning of each 30 days and going until they finally get caught. This whole system is dependent on them doing a ton of script checks, and can they really do it?

I literally just need to get away with like 1 day of afk scripting and the first lockout was worth the XP gains I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I could then justify the second lockout if I went 3 days without getting caught. You don't see the problem with it? To get the 30 day lockout you need to be caught 4 freaking times in one month. Do they really have the resources to be doing that many script checks? If they did, then sure, I'm fine with the policy change. But if it's anything like it is now, you can easily go some time without getting caught!

I don't get what is wrong? You still have someone that usually scripts that is no longer scripting for a clean 30 days. And GMs aren't stupid, they can notice a pattern and could very well say "Yeah, no, you've done this several times in a row, enjoy 30 days no XP" or whatever. Policy has always been "guidelines". Lockout is STILL an option as the last on the entire policy says too.

[Mobius1]

Two reasons. Before they risked a ban, so they couldn't keep doing it.

Second, I worry people that wouldn't have afk scripted in the past, will be emboldened to now, as they now know they can't be perma banned.

[Gelston]

Two reasons. Before they risked a ban, so they couldn't keep doing it.

Second, I worry people that wouldn't have afk scripted in the past, will be emboldened to now, as they now know they can't be perma banned.

Where did bigshot touch you?

[Methais]

People are making this way too overly complicated.

Simu doesn't want to keep banning people, and this is the fix. It's as simple as that. If someone's really going to plan their schedule around timeouts, they should probably rethink some things in life.

[Mobius1]

Basically it means afk scripting is more acceptable now. That's how I see it, anyway.

Though I'm sure it will be largely popular, as so many bigshot as it is and can worry less now about being attentive all the time.

[Gelston]

Basically it means afk scripting is more acceptable now. That's how I see it, anyway.

Though I'm sure it will be largely popular, as so many bigshot as it is and can worry less now about being attentive all the time.

I mean, it'll still be less scripters. They'll probably be a lot more proactive with it too. Might not even require SGM approval to impose punishment.

[BLZrizz]

I'd say the main point of AFK scripting is to make gains without doing any work. With less of a penalty for it, I assume more people will do it now than ever before, which is my biggest worry with this change. Also, as I said before, someone would have to be caught twice in one month to get the heavier penalty, and is that really going to happen often?

I guess if someone is habitually caught scripting they will check the crap out of them?

Yup. As I understand, the first time you get caught AFK scripting, you end up on a permanent "frequent flyer" list. You're more likely to get checked if you're on this list.

[Gelston]

Yup. As I understand, the first time you get caught AFK scripting, you end up on a permanent "frequent flyer" list. You're more likely to get checked if you're on this list.

Don’t really even need to get caught. GMs get suspicions about people and will check them often. They tend to notice when someone has been online and hunting for 17 hours straight.

[Gaius2745ml49]

Yeah this is pretty good advice. Most of the times I've been script checked have been when hunting for long periods usually around Holidays or low player population times.

[Asha]

I never understood AFK scripting till I tried it once. I left it on while I went to bed and woke up with quite the increase in various numbers. I can see how it's exciting to see your numbers grow like that.
But essentially I love hunting and killing, if i didn't I wouldn't bother to play the game at all. So in the end, I don't see the point in AFK scripting endlessly and I would like to impose large quantities of retribution on those who do it. Not including me when i did it that one time for giggles.

[BLZrizz]

I never understood AFK scripting till I tried it once. I left it on while I went to bed and woke up with quite the increase in various numbers. I can see how it's exciting to see your numbers grow like that.
But essentially I love hunting and killing, if i didn't I wouldn't bother to play the game at all. So in the end, I don't see the point in AFK scripting endlessly and I would like to impose large quantities of retribution on those who do it. Not including me when i did it that one time for giggles.

It's stealing, plain and simple.

For better or worse, the price tag devs set on exclusive items/drops and in-game rewards is mindless drudgery + fee (sub or entry). AFK scripting attempts to receive the benefit by only paying the latter without paying the former.

Some try to defend it by saying "that's MY way of playing." That's akin to walking into a store, seeing an item for $1, then paying only 50 cents and walking out with it stating "that's the price I think the item should be."

Is the viability of the drudgery + fee model a discussion worth having? Absolutely. But unilaterally attempting to circumvent that model by violating policy is not the way.

[Gelston]

It's stealing, plain and simple.

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read concerning AFK scripting.

[Taernath]

It's stealing, plain and simple.

For better or worse, the price tag devs set on exclusive items/drops and in-game rewards is mindless drudgery + fee (sub or entry). AFK scripting attempts to receive the benefit by only paying the latter without paying the former.

Some try to defend it by saying "that's MY way of playing." That's akin to walking into a store, seeing an item for $1, then paying only 50 cents and walking out with it stating "that's the price I think the item should be."

Is the viability of the drudgery + fee model a discussion worth having? Absolutely. But unilaterally attempting to circumvent that model by violating policy is not the way.

It's not theft, the punishments and TOS are there to prevent you from harming someone else's experience, and by extension, GS. If Simu truly 'owned' the silver, xp, or items you get in-game they wouldn't allow secondary market sales.

[IorakeWarhammer]

I am in favor of these changes

[Hightower]

People can still cyber during their timeout period.

Update to Policy 19: Repeat offenders will have their balls cuffed to their assholes to prevent cybering.

[Gelston]

Update to Policy 19: Repeat offenders will have their balls cuffed to their assholes to prevent cybering.

Don't threaten people with a good time.

[Methais]

It's stealing, plain and simple.

For better or worse, the price tag devs set on exclusive items/drops and in-game rewards is mindless drudgery + fee (sub or entry). AFK scripting attempts to receive the benefit by only paying the latter without paying the former.

Some try to defend it by saying "that's MY way of playing." That's akin to walking into a store, seeing an item for $1, then paying only 50 cents and walking out with it stating "that's the price I think the item should be."

Is the viability of the drudgery + fee model a discussion worth having? Absolutely. But unilaterally attempting to circumvent that model by violating policy is not the way.

I blame Simu for making most things in game super tedious.

The ironic thing about GS is that the most efficient way to level up is to play the game (hunt) as little as possible (fry as fast as you can) while optimizing your afk (exp absorption) time.

I always hated the absorption system. I get why it was there when GS had an hourly rate, but I'd rather something like having a level cap of 8703209237490237420 with instant exp gains instead of a bucket that you have to rest to absorb.

Not that that would ever happen, but if it did, they'd really have to crack down on afk scripting, like so hard that it would make Itzel seem pro-afk-scripting in comparison.